1
00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio.

2
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,400
Speaker 1: Is it on or is it off? That's the question

3
00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,440
Speaker 1: that's been asked about Elon musk deal to buy Twitter

4
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,680
Speaker 1: for the last six months. Now, Musk says it's on

5
00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,599
Speaker 1: in a letter on Monday. The world's richest man made

6
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,279
Speaker 1: the proposal to go ahead with the forty four billion

7
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: dollar deal to buy the social media network on the

8
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 1: original terms. But Twitter has not dropped its lawsuit to

9
00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,519
Speaker 1: force Musk to go through with the deal, and the

10
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 1: trial date is still set for October. So what's going

11
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,159
Speaker 1: on here? To tell us is Eric Talley, a professor

12
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,200
Speaker 1: at Columbia Law School, why do you think Musk came

13
00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,640
Speaker 1: in at the original offer price instead of trying a

14
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:56,600
Speaker 1: lower price. Well, look like any situation in which you

15
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 1: know the parties are a party is reaching or trying

16
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: to find resulution. There could be a whole bunch of

17
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: different reasons. One of them, boast practically probably is the

18
00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,559
Speaker 1: fact that everything is lined up to close the deal

19
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,959
Speaker 1: at twenty cents. The shareholders have voted, proxies have been

20
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,839
Speaker 1: sent out, the lenders have signed up to a deal

21
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 1: that's going to go off with that price. So if

22
00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,759
Speaker 1: you're going to change the price from that, like if

23
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,759
Speaker 1: if we're going to go for a settlement at fifty

24
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,560
Speaker 1: three twenty or something like that, pretty much all those

25
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:26,720
Speaker 1: things have to be put back in place again, and

26
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,720
Speaker 1: that can take some time. And you know, in the

27
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,759
Speaker 1: current market conditions, no one really is the biggest friend

28
00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,640
Speaker 1: of trying to stall so long as you're trying to

29
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,679
Speaker 1: get this deal done. So that may be one of

30
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: the main reasons why there's some attraction to getting exactly

31
00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,360
Speaker 1: the same financial terms as we're with the initial deal.

32
00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,000
Speaker 1: And what drove Musk to make this all for now.

33
00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,760
Speaker 1: A couple of other things almost certainly drove him to

34
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 1: do this now as opposed to two weeks ago. The

35
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:54,880
Speaker 1: first is just, you know, over the last couple of weeks,

36
00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,800
Speaker 1: it has become clear that several of the defenses that

37
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,920
Speaker 1: Mr Musk was trying to put forward and those windows

38
00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 1: were starting to close a little bit. You know, his

39
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 1: bought hunt that he was engaged in didn't seem like

40
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,760
Speaker 1: it was yielding the types of gross disparities between Twitter's

41
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,760
Speaker 1: disclosures and what the data scientists were finding. That he

42
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,680
Speaker 1: could walk away because that was a material adverse effect

43
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 1: that probably was also going to imperil some of the

44
00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:25,480
Speaker 1: situations related to fraud. A lot of the earlier discovery

45
00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 1: motions dealt with communications back and forth, and seems pretty

46
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,280
Speaker 1: clear that Mr Musk was well aware of bought issues.

47
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,160
Speaker 1: In fact, that's why he was going to go into

48
00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 1: this deal, and he was telling everyone about it. So

49
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,160
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the off ramps that he

50
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,000
Speaker 1: had kind of hoped he'd be able to get those

51
00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 1: windows started to narrow considerably, and it made it look

52
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:47,640
Speaker 1: more and more like, well, this may be a company

53
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 1: that I end up owning. When you combine that with

54
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,079
Speaker 1: the fact that a He's about to go into a deposition,

55
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,720
Speaker 1: that deposition was probably going to be excruciating long and

56
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,520
Speaker 1: possibly a little bit embarrassing, because there are a lot

57
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,800
Speaker 1: of claims that he or his lawyers had made that

58
00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,760
Speaker 1: had been almost fully rebutted by other witnesses, and it's

59
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,480
Speaker 1: clear that he was going to be called and and

60
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 1: may still be called on a lot of those inconsistencies,

61
00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 1: and you know that would be videoed and shown in court.

62
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,320
Speaker 1: So I think that that going into that deposition there

63
00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 1: never fun, but this one was going to be a

64
00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 1: particularly unpleasant one, and then you finally combine it with

65
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,680
Speaker 1: the fact that if things are starting to shape up

66
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,760
Speaker 1: to look as though Mr Musk is now overwhelmingly likely

67
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 1: that be owning Twitter. However, this thing settles how much

68
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,720
Speaker 1: more does he want to try to ncap this company?

69
00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,920
Speaker 1: Because most of his defenses you pretty much boiled down

70
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 1: to saying Twitter is a terrible company. Who would want

71
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:44,600
Speaker 1: to buy it, who would want to own it, who

72
00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,120
Speaker 1: would want to work for it, who would want to

73
00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,320
Speaker 1: be a customer of it? And if that's going to

74
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 1: be his booby prize at the end of the day,

75
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: maybe he sort of thought it's best I stopped being

76
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,240
Speaker 1: sort of the saboteur and start being the booster of

77
00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,440
Speaker 1: this company. And so it's not terribly surprising that at

78
00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,440
Speaker 1: some point, well, once he real is that he's going

79
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 1: to be trying to recruit people to stay, the employees

80
00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,880
Speaker 1: to stay, another investors to come in. That involves telling

81
00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,640
Speaker 1: a positive story, not a negative story, and and the

82
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,680
Speaker 1: earlier he can pivot to doing that, perhaps the better.

83
00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 1: His offer was made with a proviso that the Delaware

84
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,359
Speaker 1: Chancery Court enter an immediate stay of Twitter's fight and

85
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: adjourn the trial. His offer came with the proviso that

86
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: there be an immediate stay of Twitter's legal fight and

87
00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 1: an a german of the trial. Twitter has not done that.

88
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,000
Speaker 1: Is this a case of fool me once, Shame on you,

89
00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 1: fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three, four

90
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 1: or five times, shame on Twitter. Well that was a

91
00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,680
Speaker 1: nice try by Mr Boss, but quite frankly, you know,

92
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,920
Speaker 1: the imagery of Lucy holding the football and Charlie Brown

93
00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 1: running up to kick the football again I think is

94
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:53,760
Speaker 1: definitely in play here, right. The fact of the matter

95
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 1: is that letter sort of says I am gonna undertake

96
00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,760
Speaker 1: to agree to do what I've already agreed to do

97
00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,279
Speaker 1: in was trying to back out on. And so when

98
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,080
Speaker 1: you really read that letter closely, yes, it signals that

99
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,120
Speaker 1: he's had a change of heart, that he's willing to

100
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,640
Speaker 1: try to close this deal on its original terms. That's

101
00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,279
Speaker 1: great news for Twitter, but it doesn't really put his

102
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:18,560
Speaker 1: money where his mouth is. It's conditioned on an immediate

103
00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 1: stay of all proceedings and on the debt commitments closing. Well,

104
00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,359
Speaker 1: you know, the fact of the matter is that doesn't

105
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 1: really change any of the positions that he was in

106
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,360
Speaker 1: All it does is it signals that he's now more

107
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:34,360
Speaker 1: open to closing on these particular terms. So Twitter would

108
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,000
Speaker 1: be foolish if they said, Okay, now that you've signaled

109
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 1: this relatively limp willingness to go forward, we should just

110
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 1: put everything on hold, even though we're careening towards this

111
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,760
Speaker 1: October seventeenth day. You know, if part of what was

112
00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 1: motivating him to issue this letter was sort of a

113
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 1: fear of walking into that deposition room, well, if that's

114
00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,040
Speaker 1: you know, has come to Jesus moment and deciding he's

115
00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 1: going to soften up on the steal, why would Twitter

116
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 1: ever want to put on the brakes on their lawsuits.

117
00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 1: So if I'm Twitter's attorneys and it seems like this

118
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,680
Speaker 1: is what they've been doing, you know, you're telling your associates, no,

119
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 1: you don't plan a trip to the Bahamas that week.

120
00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,919
Speaker 1: We're planning to go to trial and until and in

121
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,920
Speaker 1: less the ink is dry on a deal that's much

122
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,600
Speaker 1: more credible than the first one. We're not gonna let

123
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: this slow down, you know, any or at least not

124
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,599
Speaker 1: very many parts of the schedule that we put in

125
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,400
Speaker 1: place to get us ready for trial. What happens next.

126
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,479
Speaker 1: Is the deposition going to go forward? Well, the deposition

127
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 1: is scheduled to be on October six and seven, I think,

128
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,880
Speaker 1: and that is absolutely still in the books. Now, they

129
00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 1: might push the deposition by a couple of days. It's

130
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,400
Speaker 1: conceivable they would, particularly if it's the queasy feeling about

131
00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: that deposition that is in fact um inducing a little

132
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 1: bit of softening up with Mr Musk. That is probably

133
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,360
Speaker 1: gonna mean that other things get accelerated into its place,

134
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,039
Speaker 1: and that would give them maybe, you know, forty eight

135
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,160
Speaker 1: hours to try to work out whether they can get

136
00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,960
Speaker 1: all of their box in a row to close the deal.

137
00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,120
Speaker 1: But you know, if they are negotiating in the background

138
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,520
Speaker 1: what this closed deal is going to look like, I

139
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 1: would expect that Twitter is trying to make sure that

140
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: there are concessions there that are a little bit more

141
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 1: concrete than merely a repetition of the promise that he

142
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,920
Speaker 1: made back in April to close the deal. So, for example,

143
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,520
Speaker 1: they might have him stipulate the various legal outcomes and

144
00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,280
Speaker 1: essentially say I'm going to agree that the specific performance

145
00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,520
Speaker 1: is in fact the right order here and concede my

146
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 1: liability on the issue, or alternatively, they might say, Okay,

147
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 1: if you want to go through this deal, it's going

148
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,960
Speaker 1: to take a few more days or weeks to get

149
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 1: things lined up. We would like you to immediately put

150
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,480
Speaker 1: enough cash and stock in other companies like Tesla and

151
00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 1: SpaceX into an escrow account so that if you try

152
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,160
Speaker 1: to back out on it, we don't have to try

153
00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,200
Speaker 1: to haul you into court for a specific performance degree.

154
00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,920
Speaker 1: We'll just have a judge attached that account and have

155
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 1: it empty out to us and have that will kind

156
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,120
Speaker 1: of put your money where your mouth is. So there

157
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,520
Speaker 1: are ways that they can try to put a few

158
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,800
Speaker 1: more teeth into this undertaking to close this deal at

159
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 1: fifty cents, But I can't imagine that they would simply

160
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,640
Speaker 1: be happy to both delay and just reaffirm the the

161
00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, all of the provisions as they are now.

162
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 1: They can't do too much to the deal to change

163
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,760
Speaker 1: it around, or else they're gonna have to go back

164
00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,600
Speaker 1: and you know, issue new proxies to shareholders, get another

165
00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,560
Speaker 1: shareholder vote, and you know, go back to the to

166
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,640
Speaker 1: the debt commitment letter and and and hope to get

167
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,160
Speaker 1: a new one of those as well. So these will

168
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 1: be mainly sort of um, you know, additions or writers

169
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 1: to ensure prompt payment by Mr Musk uh and and

170
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 1: adding on something like an escrow account or um an

171
00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,839
Speaker 1: admission to liability wouldn't necessarily require changing the other terms

172
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,880
Speaker 1: of the agreement. What might the judge do to make

173
00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,560
Speaker 1: sure that this deal happens before she decides to you know,

174
00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 1: before she said, decides to cancel the trial. Well, typically,

175
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,760
Speaker 1: you know, when parties go into deep negotiations about a

176
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,640
Speaker 1: potential settlement, the judgment will give them a little bit

177
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 1: of room to do it, but not infinite room to

178
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,320
Speaker 1: do it, because you know, chance McCormick is pretty savvy

179
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 1: to this as well, that one of the part Mr

180
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 1: Musk has been alleged to already have been engaged in

181
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, stalling tactic in this litigation. So I think

182
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 1: there's a sense in which the courts and Twitter would

183
00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 1: sort of say, okay, look, we'll give you enough room

184
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 1: to see if we can negotiate a settlement of this deal,

185
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,959
Speaker 1: but not if all it really is is a pretext

186
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,640
Speaker 1: to put everything on hold. So I suspect that Chancellor

187
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 1: McCormick will give them a little bit of leeway, particularly

188
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: if they both show up saying we really think we're

189
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,640
Speaker 1: close to a deal, your honor, she might bump a

190
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: couple of the depositions. I doubt she's going to bump

191
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 1: the trial date, quite frankly, because you know that's been

192
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,839
Speaker 1: set for months now, and you know, Chance McCormick is

193
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,080
Speaker 1: not the only case that she's hearing. She's scheduling all

194
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 1: these other cases around it as well. So that week

195
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,400
Speaker 1: has been reserved and dedicated to this case, and I

196
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,480
Speaker 1: anticipate that it's going to be the matter that goes

197
00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,440
Speaker 1: forward at time. You know that there are still pieces

198
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 1: to put together. One of the big wild cards in

199
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: this case is whether suddenly the lenders in the deal,

200
00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,000
Speaker 1: we're going to get cold feet and show up and

201
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,680
Speaker 1: say we're not willing to go forward, which then could

202
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,000
Speaker 1: throw things into even more chaos. So my guess is

203
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 1: that these discussions aren't just between Twitter and Musk, but

204
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,600
Speaker 1: the lenders are in the room as well, just trying

205
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,079
Speaker 1: to make sure that every you know, all the remaining

206
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 1: pieces that have to be put in place can be

207
00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,800
Speaker 1: put in place. Enough assurances can be given to Twitter

208
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,480
Speaker 1: that the deal will close and they can execute any

209
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 1: additional paperwork that they need to make that happen. What

210
00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 1: else could happen to trip up the deal? Well, there

211
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 1: still is this wild card about the lenders. Now, the

212
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,120
Speaker 1: lenders don't have a lot of outsum in this deal,

213
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,600
Speaker 1: but there is a set of dominoes that could fall

214
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,360
Speaker 1: over if the lenders somehow legitimately back out. The most

215
00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,840
Speaker 1: critical one is that if the lenders back out, while

216
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,600
Speaker 1: it doesn't forgive Musk entirely of his obligations, it would

217
00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,200
Speaker 1: at least per the terms of the contract limit his

218
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 1: liability to money damages, which is probably going to be

219
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,240
Speaker 1: the termination fee of a billion dollars. So the lenders

220
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 1: backing out for independent reasons, not goaded on or coached

221
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,359
Speaker 1: by Mr Musk, has always been kind of an interesting

222
00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: wild card in this situation, and there aren't too many

223
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,200
Speaker 1: outs that the lenders have, But it could well be

224
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,440
Speaker 1: that one of the things that is going to be

225
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, really critical for the lenders, and he is

226
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,800
Speaker 1: actually part of the deal itself, is that there has

227
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,320
Speaker 1: to be a solvency certificate that is issued for for Twitter,

228
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: that it's got to be assured that it's going to

229
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,720
Speaker 1: be solvent upon the closing of the deal, that it

230
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,600
Speaker 1: won't have liabilities and excessive assets or won't have cash

231
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 1: flows that are incapable of meeting its debts. Someone's got

232
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: to sign onto that, and weirdly enough, the entity that

233
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 1: has to sign onto that solvency certificate is Elon Musk himself.

234
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,080
Speaker 1: So there could be some kind of odd fun and

235
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,880
Speaker 1: games that take place in which Musque says, I don't

236
00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 1: think I can sign on to a solvency certificate, and

237
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,600
Speaker 1: therefore the banks are going to pull their lending, and

238
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,000
Speaker 1: therefore he doesn't have to close under the contract. I

239
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,120
Speaker 1: do think that there is a danger that if that happens, though,

240
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 1: it's going to be perceived by Twitter and probably the

241
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 1: judge is being a little bit too cute, see, So

242
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 1: I have some reservations about whether they're even going to

243
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 1: try to go down that road. It is a theoretical possibility,

244
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,280
Speaker 1: so that might be something to keep our eyes out on.

245
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,439
Speaker 1: And the letter that Mr Musk sent about his offer

246
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 1: to you know, come back to the table also says well,

247
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 1: provided that the debt gets funded as well, So he

248
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,240
Speaker 1: has kind of worked in some wiggle rooms some margin

249
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 1: of error on that front as well. And it's something

250
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 1: that you know, you kind of look at, you say, okay,

251
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,679
Speaker 1: this is a letter that has some concessions in it,

252
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,760
Speaker 1: but it is not yet the paragon of predictability that

253
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,320
Speaker 1: I think Twitter would want or the Judge Eric. Is

254
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 1: it just coincidence that Musk was getting blowback for his

255
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 1: peace plan proposal on Ukraine and then news breaks the

256
00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,320
Speaker 1: next day that he's going forward with the Twitter deal.

257
00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,320
Speaker 1: I do think that there there, you know, have been,

258
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, in addition to a bunch of the other distractions,

259
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: right um, Mr Musk's decision that he's going to engage

260
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,520
Speaker 1: in foreign policy initiatives for Ukraine being only one of them,

261
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,200
Speaker 1: but you know, some bad news for Tesla in terms

262
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,600
Speaker 1: of their production numbers and so forth. I do think

263
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,840
Speaker 1: there's a sense that the number of other distractions have

264
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,559
Speaker 1: grown sufficiently large that maybe Mr Musk sort of thought, Okay,

265
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:28,640
Speaker 1: this was fun for a while, this was entertaining for

266
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,160
Speaker 1: a few months, but now I got other things on

267
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,080
Speaker 1: my plate, and you know what, I kind of see

268
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:34,920
Speaker 1: where this is going anyway, so I might as well

269
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,000
Speaker 1: close this deal. I think you combine that with the

270
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 1: fact that you know this was not destined to be

271
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,400
Speaker 1: a walk in the park, this deposition, I think there

272
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 1: would be a lot of cringe worthy moments for Team

273
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,040
Speaker 1: Musk during this deposition of staments that are just outright

274
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 1: inconsistent and by Twitter's account, just lies about what Mr

275
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,319
Speaker 1: Musk did and didn't do in his communications back in April.

276
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: That no one really wants to have to sit through

277
00:13:57,679 --> 00:14:03,680
Speaker 1: that squirm fest of a deposition, And thanks so much. Eric.

278
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 1: That's Eric Tally, a professor at Columbia Law School. Tom Barrick,

279
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 1: the founder of Colony Capital and a close ally of

280
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, is on trial in Brooklyn for using his

281
00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,560
Speaker 1: access to the former president to secretly help the United

282
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,000
Speaker 1: Arab Emirates to try to gain influence over American foreign policy.

283
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: Prosecutors say that Barrick and his former assistant Matthew Grimes

284
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 1: were the eyes and ears and voices of the u

285
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 1: a E, providing the country with sensitive information and access

286
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,760
Speaker 1: to the highest levels of US government. But the defense

287
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,840
Speaker 1: says Barrick was a globe trotting businessman who ran a

288
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:48,720
Speaker 1: forty billion dollar investment fund and called the prosecutions allegations

289
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,320
Speaker 1: that he was an illegal foreign agent nonsense. Joining me

290
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: as Bloomberg Legal reporter Patricia Hurtado, who's covering the trial

291
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,280
Speaker 1: tell us what prosecutors are accusing Barrack of well. Tom

292
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: Barrick is a longtime friend of Donald Trump's who acted

293
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 1: as one of his campaign finance guys in sixteen. The

294
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 1: government alleges that during the run up to the election,

295
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: as well as Trump's election as president, he and his

296
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:23,200
Speaker 1: former assistant gentleman named Matthew Grimes basically conspired to act

297
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,720
Speaker 1: as unregistered foreign agents for the government of the United

298
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 1: Arab Emirates, and the allegations are that he agreed to

299
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,320
Speaker 1: do the U a e. S bidding to help influence

300
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,600
Speaker 1: the new presidency and the new the new administration, arranging

301
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 1: for meetings talking points. He denies it all. He said

302
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,840
Speaker 1: he was just a business fan doing his business. The

303
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,920
Speaker 1: government alleges he made money. According to the government, the

304
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: Emirati Sovereign Wealth Funds later invested about three seventy four

305
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: million into a fund and real estate projects he backed.

306
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:05,720
Speaker 1: So was there any formal agreement or anything that the

307
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,080
Speaker 1: government can point to to specifically show the agreement. No,

308
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:12,760
Speaker 1: which you have to do. And so if you are

309
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: acting as a foreign agent, it's a violation section. And

310
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,280
Speaker 1: according to this you're supposed to tell the US government

311
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 1: that you're doing lobbying for the foreign country. The US

312
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,160
Speaker 1: says he failed to tell them that he never registered.

313
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,080
Speaker 1: Neither did Grimes. Meanwhile, they charged an Emirati who is

314
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:38,720
Speaker 1: now a fugitive, of acting as the point man basically

315
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 1: for the United Arab Emirates in the US with Barrick

316
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 1: and Grimes. And then the minute he understood that the

317
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,200
Speaker 1: US was investigating, that he left the country. And what

318
00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 1: about barracks associate that's on trial. Yeah, he's his young assistant.

319
00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 1: He was twenty two when he started working for Barrick

320
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:04,400
Speaker 1: right out of Wharton, and he's accused of helping arranged

321
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,360
Speaker 1: these meetings and helping arrange these communicates. But his lawyer,

322
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 1: Abby Lowell, has said he was just a gopher for Barrick,

323
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 1: arranging for making sure he had his bosses smoothie every

324
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 1: morning and the coffee was hot, and that the Colony

325
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,560
Speaker 1: Capital private jet had the right food in it. So

326
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,679
Speaker 1: he was basically his assistant. Nothing more. So is the

327
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 1: defense he didn't do it or he didn't get money

328
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,960
Speaker 1: for it, or what. It's both that he didn't do it,

329
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 1: and if he got money, it was because of investments

330
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 1: that were just separate and apart from any kind of activity.

331
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,600
Speaker 1: Basically that he denies any wrongdoing. He denies being an

332
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,280
Speaker 1: unregistered foreign agent, he denies acting and lobbying on behalf

333
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,359
Speaker 1: of the United Arab Emirates, And in fact, he's argued

334
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,719
Speaker 1: that there were actually points where he was advocating for Cutter.

335
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 1: There was a blockade to ends Cutter, and he was

336
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: advocating for Cutter, which is another Gulf country which was

337
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 1: violently opposed by the UAE and they were basically sworn enemies.

338
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 1: So why would you support one country and then support

339
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 1: another country when their enemies? What would you say from

340
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,399
Speaker 1: the opening statements is the best piece of evidence the

341
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,200
Speaker 1: prosecution has. Well, I mean, the other thing that he's

342
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,879
Speaker 1: charged with is lying to the FBI about this investigation

343
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 1: when they question him point blank. Now, a lot of

344
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 1: the evidence has been alluded to, but it's under steal

345
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,880
Speaker 1: because it's classified. So there's apparently information there that has

346
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 1: been redacted half of the documents that get filed or

347
00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 1: blacked out, according to the defense, but they expect to

348
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,880
Speaker 1: call people in the former Trump administration to discuss that

349
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,560
Speaker 1: Trump and high ranking officials and the Trump administration were

350
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 1: away error that Barrick was talking to the Emiratis and

351
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: this was just the way they did business, and they

352
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 1: were using Barrack because he was well known to them.

353
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,440
Speaker 1: Because one of the arguments is that Trump gets elected

354
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,640
Speaker 1: as a businessman and a former reality TV sheet show host, right,

355
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,560
Speaker 1: so he doesn't have the traditional avenues of knowing who's

356
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,000
Speaker 1: going to be a former foreign policy advisor. You know,

357
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,840
Speaker 1: that can be a conduit to reaching the newly elected president.

358
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,360
Speaker 1: So he would still have to register as a foreign agent, though,

359
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,520
Speaker 1: wouldn't he? Yeah, he would, And but I think the

360
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 1: argument is if Trump maybe knew, and maybe high ranking

361
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: members of the administration knew that this was being done,

362
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,159
Speaker 1: I guess there is an argument of plausible deniability as

363
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: far as the defense is concerned, right, because if they knew,

364
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,760
Speaker 1: what's the problem here, and that perhaps another administration is

365
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 1: seeing different because Trump is no longer in office. It

366
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: seems like lying to the FBI is one of the

367
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: prosecution sort of fallbacks in these cases. And that's an

368
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 1: easy case for the prosecution to make because the FBI

369
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: usually has the answer is before they asked the questions. Yeah,

370
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: but it's interesting because they're arguing the same defense Martha

371
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 1: Stewart made, which is you guys didn't take notes. I

372
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: mean you took notes by hand, but you didn't record it.

373
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 1: How do you know you didn't write the questions down?

374
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: How do we know that the answer was wrong when

375
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,119
Speaker 1: you don't have the question? He answered, you know you

376
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: have an answer, but you don't know what the question was.

377
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,479
Speaker 1: And so how's the jury supposed to infer the worst

378
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: possible interpretation and take the worst inference? Well, we know

379
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 1: that defense did not work for Martha Stewart. How is

380
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,120
Speaker 1: jury selection? One of the interesting things that happened during

381
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 1: jury selection is jurors were questioned closely about their feelings

382
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: about Donald Trump himself and how closely they followed the

383
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: sixteen campaign, and um, the judge actually asked prospective jurors

384
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: how did they feel about Trump? Donald Trump himself and

385
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: what would they think if he came in to testify

386
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: as a witness in this case. So that was extraordinarily

387
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 1: unusual to hear that, especially at a time when we're

388
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 1: having the Moral Lago investigation and whether or not, you know,

389
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: the January six hearings are going on and what transpired there.

390
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: So it's it's quite interesting that there's some possibility that

391
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump or high ranking members of his administration could

392
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: be called in to testify, including Jared Kushner and possibly

393
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 1: a former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and um former

394
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Steve the Nuchin about what did Barracks say

395
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: and what did you know about it? Did the judge

396
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: let jurison who had any negative thoughts about Trump negative

397
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 1: feelings about Trump? For the most part, it was almost

398
00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: like if they were very discreet, they did not get

399
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,360
Speaker 1: kicked off the jury for cause. You know, there's peremptory

400
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 1: challenges where both sides get to object to a certain

401
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: juror for whatever reason. They don't have to cause. But

402
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 1: there are times when the judge could struke someone for

403
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 1: prospective juror for cause if they seem to be they

404
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 1: don't speak English, well, they're hard of hearing, they have

405
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: a hardship for childcare, for example, or a job hardship, right,

406
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: so they can't sit on a five week trial without

407
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: losing income, which would be devastating to their household or

408
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: something like that. So there were people that were very

409
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: articulate critics of President Trump, including prospective jurors that had

410
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: said he was a crook. Now, those people got struck

411
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: for cause immediately, or people who are very loquacious and

412
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: talked at length about how closely they followed the election

413
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 1: and that they wanted Hillary Clinton to win. They were

414
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: obviously candid, and they got struck for cause. But there

415
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: were other people that said, oh, yeah, I closely follow

416
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: of the election, but I didn't care about the outcome,

417
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,879
Speaker 1: which is kind of a head scratcher. Was like, are

418
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: they not being forthcoming to tell you the truth about

419
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: what they who they wanted to win. So sometimes those

420
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: people were struck. There was one woman who said she

421
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: was upset about the outcome of with Michigan Governor Gretchen

422
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: Whitmer's case. So immediately the government is raising a red flag, going, uh,

423
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 1: this is a person who might believe in conspiracies and

424
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 1: Q and on or whatever. So um, finally I think

425
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: the government struck her. But so that's the kind of

426
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: thing where the judge made the prosecutors sometimes use their

427
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 1: peremptory challenges to people who might be stealth Republicans. So um,

428
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: these are the same charges that former National Security Advisor

429
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 1: Michael Flynn faced. This case was actually started out of

430
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 1: Mueller's investigation. It started there and then it ended up

431
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: in main Justice, So started with a special prosecutor and

432
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: then it went to main Justice and eventual late now

433
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: it's in the Eastern District of New York with a

434
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 1: Department of Justice component too, out of prosecutors. So how

435
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: many witnesses so far? Any interesting witnesses so far? There's

436
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: been at this testimony from an expert and he's a

437
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: professor of um Middle East studies basically, and he's talking

438
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: about the history of all these countries and sovereign wealth funds,

439
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: which to me was fascinating because he's talking about these

440
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: Gulf states who have principalities. They're run by sheikhs or

441
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: princes or kingdoms, and they are oil rich and some

442
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: of them, like the UAE United Arab Emirates, was interested

443
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,719
Speaker 1: in using soft power and they use their sovereign wealth funds,

444
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 1: some of them with you know, unbelievable amounts of cash

445
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: behind them. One of the sovereign wealth funds has something

446
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: like eight hundred billion dollars in assets, and they they

447
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: do things like to win soft power and win good

448
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: ill around the world, investing in things like sports teams

449
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 1: like Arsenal or Manchester United UM. They built the United

450
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: Arab Emirates built a stadium in downtown London based with

451
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, for goodwill UM. You can also see the

452
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 1: Saudias doing this with Live Golf, which has decided to

453
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 1: invest and have UM golf tournaments, to the criticism of

454
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 1: some people. So it was fascinating to me to hear this,

455
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 1: you know, soft power influence and what they're trying to

456
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: do UM to buy goodwill including also back in doubt

457
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,479
Speaker 1: chairs at universities for academic and research as well as

458
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 1: a think tanks. So fascinating to listen to. So this

459
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 1: next week I think we're supposed to listen to more

460
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: experts to set the ex stage of what was at stake,

461
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 1: why would have done this and why the government thinks

462
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: Barrick did this. You have the two defendants, they both

463
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: have their own attorneys. Does their defense contradict each other

464
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: in anyways? No, essentially a joint defense. And you know

465
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: Grimes's defense lawyer showed jurors pictures of his client. He

466
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: apparently met Tom Barrick as a sixteen year old. He

467
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: started a DJ business in Santa Barbara when he was

468
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: fourteen and when he was sixteen, he got hired by

469
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: Barrack's wife to be the DJ at Barrack's sons graduation

470
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: party from eighth grade. So they have a picture from

471
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: Grimes at that young tender age of sixteen. He's all

472
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: of twenty nine now and he looks very young. So,

473
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: uh yeah, they seem to have a joint defense. That

474
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 1: seems to be, you know, working hand in glove together.

475
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: Thanks Patty. That's Patricia Hurtano, Bloomberg Legal Reporter, and that's

476
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: it for this edition of The Bloomberg Law Show. Remember

477
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: you can always get the latest legal news on our

478
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

479
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: and at www dot Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast Slash Law,

480
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: and remember to tune in to The Bloomberg Law Show

481
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: every week night at ten pm Wall Street Time. I'm

482
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 1: June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg