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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain. Where we are

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Speaker 1: knee deep tits deep, neck deep, damn near underwater in

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Speaker 1: WNBA All Star Weekend, and we wouldn't have it any

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Speaker 1: other way. It's Thursday, July twenty third, and on today's show,

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Speaker 1: veteran sports reporter Holly Road joins us to reflect on

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Speaker 1: nearly thirty years at ESPN and nearly thirty years covering

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Speaker 1: the w She gives her thoughts on the WNBA season

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Speaker 1: up to this point, previews the All Star Weekend, and

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Speaker 1: talks about how parties and sponsor activations mark a changing

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Speaker 1: tide for the league. We share our different takes on

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Speaker 1: the role of the WNBA Commissioner, and I apologize for

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Speaker 1: forgetting that what happens in Vegas is supposed to stay

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Speaker 1: in Vegas. Like I don't know, Holly Row hitting that

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Speaker 1: Roger Rabbit, plus the Queen is back. It's a winner,

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Speaker 1: go home game in the AUSL and Track and Field

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Speaker 1: stars hit the Big Apple. It's all coming up right

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Speaker 1: after this welcome back slices, Here's what you need to

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Speaker 1: know today, starting with All Star Weekend. The starting lineups

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Speaker 1: for the WNBA All Star Game have been set for

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Speaker 1: a while, but now we've got long awaited intel on

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Speaker 1: the three point contest on Friday. The w announced Tuesday

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Speaker 1: that the Toronto Tempos, Marina Maybury, the Atlanta Dreams, Ryan Howard,

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Speaker 1: and the Dallas Wings Azy Fudd will all take the

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Speaker 1: court Friday night. Bridget Carlton of the Portland Fire, Natisha

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Speaker 1: Heideman of the Seattle Storm, and Janell Salon of the

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Speaker 1: Golden State Valkyries fill out the field. All six participants

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Speaker 1: rank among the league's most productive shooters from beyond the

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Speaker 1: arc this season, with Maybury leading the pact with eighty

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Speaker 1: two may threes. Number one draft pick Fudd is just

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Speaker 1: the fourth rookie in WNBA history to compete in a

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Speaker 1: three point shootout, joining the likes of Kelsey Mitchell, Ryan Howard,

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Speaker 1: and Sonya Citron. No rookie has won the contest, though,

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Speaker 1: so let's see if Fud can pull it off. We're

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Speaker 1: recording this before the Skills Challenge participants have been announced,

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Speaker 1: but you can watch on ESPN Friday at eight pm

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Speaker 1: Eastern to see who's competing. Big Citrus will be in

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Speaker 1: the building and we'll share details for are Busy and

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Speaker 1: Fun Weekend next week. More w Queen Fee is back.

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Speaker 1: Nafisa Collier made her season debut on Wednesday as her

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Speaker 1: Minnesota Links based off against the Seattle Storm. Callier had

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Speaker 1: been sidelined for the first ten weeks of the season,

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Speaker 1: working her way back from a pair of ankle surgeries.

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Speaker 1: Now we're recording this before the final buzzer, so you'll

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Speaker 1: have to check if Fee and the Links pulled off

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Speaker 1: the w But either way, so good to see her

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Speaker 1: back on the court, and so scary for the rest

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Speaker 1: of the league that the first place Links now have

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Speaker 1: their MVP back. We'll have even more on Fees, injury

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Speaker 1: and recovery in tomorrow's show, when I'll be joined by

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Speaker 1: none other than Minnesota Link's coach and the winning is

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Speaker 1: coach in the history of the WNBA, Cheryl Reeve more w.

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Speaker 1: The latest edition of the NBA two K Game will

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Speaker 1: feature the Indiana Fevers Caitlin Clark on the cover. She

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Speaker 1: joins the mnba's Victor Wembin Yama and MNBA legend Derek Rose,

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Speaker 1: with each gracing a different cover. Clark will be on

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Speaker 1: the Deluxe edition, and unlike previous cover girls include sabrinian Escu,

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Speaker 1: Dina Tarassi, and Angel Reese Clark is the first w

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Speaker 1: player to appear on a global cover, not just the

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Speaker 1: WNBA specific edition, said Clark in a press release. Quote.

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Speaker 1: To be the first WNBA player on her own global

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Speaker 1: cover means women's basketball gets to show up on that

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Speaker 1: stage two and I'm proud to be part of that,

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Speaker 1: end quote to softball. The AUSL regular season is complete

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Speaker 1: and defending champs. The Utah Talons ended the season at

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Speaker 1: the top of the standings, securing their spot in the

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Speaker 1: best of three championship series, but their opponent is still

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Speaker 1: to be determined. Tonight, number two seed the Chicago Bandits

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Speaker 1: take on number three seed the Portland Cascade in the

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Speaker 1: play in game. Don't miss the winner take All showdown.

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Speaker 1: It's at nine pm Eastern on ESPN. Then the best

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Speaker 1: of three championship series gets underwe on Saturday. We'll link

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Speaker 1: to the full AUSL playoff schedule in the show notes

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Speaker 1: to soccer and some heartbreaking news for friend of the

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Speaker 1: show Jordan Haidema, the Chicago Stars forward, has been placed

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Speaker 1: on the NWSL season ending injury list after rupturing her

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Speaker 1: left ACL to a game against Angel City FC July eighteenth.

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Speaker 1: The Stars announced Tuesday that Heidemo will undergo surgery and

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Speaker 1: begin her recovery process. On Instagram, the Canadian national team

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Speaker 1: player wrote quote, I've always believed that so much of

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Speaker 1: life is out of our control, but how we choose

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Speaker 1: to respond is always ours. While I'm away from the

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Speaker 1: game I love, I'm choosing to see this as an

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Speaker 1: opportunity to pour my heart into my relationships, building my business,

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Speaker 1: creating something meaningful during this season of life, and coming

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Speaker 1: back stronger than I left. One chapter is on pause,

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Speaker 1: but another is just beginning. End quote. What a fantastic

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Speaker 1: attitude to have. By the way, the business item is

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Speaker 1: talking about is her new skincare line called Jordie Skin,

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Speaker 1: which she created for athletes and active people, and it

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Speaker 1: just launched yesterday. We'll put a link to the products

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Speaker 1: in the show notes if you want to try it out. More.

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Speaker 1: Soccer Legend of the Game and friend of the Show,

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Speaker 1: Megan Rapino has announced a new show called Why Are

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Speaker 1: You Like This? A video podcast with Vox Media. Pino

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Speaker 1: is going to be quote talking to athletes, artists, activists,

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Speaker 1: and architects of our culture to explore who we really are,

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Speaker 1: how we got here, and what we want to become.

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Speaker 1: End quote. Knowing Pino, this is the perfect concept for her.

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Speaker 1: I'm pumped to listen. First episode drops August sixth, and

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Speaker 1: you might already be subscribed since the show is taking

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Speaker 1: over the A Touch More feed, which had us thinking

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Speaker 1: here at good Game, HQ. If you're in a long

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Speaker 1: term relationship that becomes a content creating relationship. Even if

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Speaker 1: you never get married, you might still need some sort

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Speaker 1: of prenup for that. IP who gets the feed is

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Speaker 1: going to be the new who gets the dog. To

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Speaker 1: track and Field, the twenty twenty six USA Track and

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Speaker 1: Field Outdoor and Para National Championships start today at Icon

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Speaker 1: Stadium in New York City, the first time the city

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Speaker 1: is hosting the event since nineteen ninety one. Headliners include

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Speaker 1: Tara Davis Woodhall, who's one of the busiest athletes of

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Speaker 1: the weekend. She's entered in the one hundred meter hurdles

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Speaker 1: on Saturday and the long jump on Sunday, where she's

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Speaker 1: the raining, Olympic and World champion, and on an eighteen

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Speaker 1: meet wind streak dating all the way back to twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four raining two under meter US champion. Melissa Jefferson

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Speaker 1: Wooden is also one to watch plus reigning fifteen hundred

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Speaker 1: meter champ and friend of the Show Nicki Hilts, who

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Speaker 1: will be looking to win their eleventh national title. Sh

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Speaker 1: Carrie Richardson was supposed to raise the one hundred and

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Speaker 1: two hundred, but she's scratched the longer of the two sprints.

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Speaker 1: We'll put a link to the schedule and broadcast information

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Speaker 1: in the show notes so you can tune in and

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Speaker 1: catch your faves slices. A quick two things before we

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Speaker 1: get to the Great Holly Row. First, there's a new

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Speaker 1: ESPN profile of Sophie Cunningham written by Hallie Grossman. In

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Speaker 1: the story, the Indiana Fever Guard talks about her public

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Speaker 1: profile blowing up after she got ejected for grabbing then

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Speaker 1: Connecticut Sun guard J. C. Sheldon in a sort of

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Speaker 1: running headlock and throwing her to the ground mid game.

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Speaker 1: Last season, sponsorship deals, appearances, millions of followers, her life

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Speaker 1: changed almost overnight. Now the whole piece is worth a read,

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Speaker 1: but two things stood out to me. First, Cunningham is

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Speaker 1: full of comments throughout the piece about her toughness and

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Speaker 1: being seen as a rule enforcer, but declined through her

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Speaker 1: representative to comment in the role of race. And how

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Speaker 1: she's treated and how she's benefited from the same things

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Speaker 1: black players are villified for. Reading from the story, quote,

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Speaker 1: Cunningham intentionally yanked Sheldon down by her neck and was

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Speaker 1: hailed as a protector. A year later, the Mercurysalisa Thomas

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Speaker 1: put her fist to Clark's throat accidentally, Thomas says, and

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Speaker 1: was excoriated as reckless and worse. The circumstances were different,

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Speaker 1: but both were undeniable fouls that merited punishment from the league.

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Speaker 1: One player, Cunningham, who is white, earned a flood of

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Speaker 1: new endorsements in the aftermath. The other, Thomas, who is black,

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Speaker 1: a barrage of death threats. It's a truth that is

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Speaker 1: as inescapable as it is difficult to grapple with. Cunningham

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Speaker 1: prides herself on being an open book, but through her representative,

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Speaker 1: declined to discuss the role race played in the public

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Speaker 1: perception of her Fight and Rise.

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Speaker 2: Quote.

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Speaker 1: Cunningham was willing to speak on trans inclusion, though, or

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Speaker 1: more accurately, exclusion. Reading from the piece again, Rossman writes, quote,

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Speaker 1: you say she's a mag of Barbie, as some corners

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Speaker 1: of the Internet have taken to calling her projection. She says,

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Speaker 1: because of what she looks like and where she's from,

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Speaker 1: she'll weigh in on how to quote unquote protect women's sports.

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Speaker 1: She says, because she's in that world and feels qualified

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Speaker 1: to speak to that world. I got a lot of

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Speaker 1: negative feedback about me hating trans and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: never once said that, she says. I think that I

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Speaker 1: am here to extend love, but I also think that

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Speaker 1: with love is truth, being honest, and I want to

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Speaker 1: protect young girls in a locker room or young girls

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Speaker 1: in sport who shouldn't have to go against biological men.

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Speaker 1: End quote. Now my takeaway from the profile is that

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Speaker 1: Cunningham has been emboldened throughout her life by family and

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Speaker 1: supporters to be the center of her own story, to

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Speaker 1: own her actions, but only in the sense of taking

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Speaker 1: pride in them, and to defend all of her choices

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Speaker 1: and behaviors, no matter their impact on others. She complains

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Speaker 1: of stalkers, for instance, but is unwilling to speak on

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Speaker 1: the harassment faced by other w players. Her unwillingness to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge how her whiteness impacts her popularity and the impact

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Speaker 1: racism and bias has on the lives of her teammates

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Speaker 1: and opponents. Some might call them WNBA sisters or family. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you had that to her statement on the trans community,

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Speaker 1: which is filled with offensive language and is entirely lacking

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Speaker 1: nuance or care, it just seems like she doesn't have

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Speaker 1: any interest in empathizing or caring about anyone but Sophie.

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Speaker 1: I guess she's too busy figuring out how to squeeze

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Speaker 1: in appearances with Dana White and the UFC. We'll link

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Speaker 1: to the profile in the show notes if you want

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Speaker 1: to check it out. One other thing before we get

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Speaker 1: to my conversation with Holly Row, I wanted to mention

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Speaker 1: two quick things to keep in mind as you're listening. One,

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Speaker 1: the issue of player harassment and safety comes up in

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Speaker 1: our conversation, and we both agree that there's no excuse

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Speaker 1: for public attacks and threats on athletes, regardless of their gender.

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Speaker 1: I just want to make clear point that I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure gets out fully in our convo, which is that

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Speaker 1: trolling and threats are present in every sport, including the MNBA,

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Speaker 1: but they're a small part of a larger three hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty degree conversation and ecosystem about and around that

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Speaker 1: men's league, media and fans talk about player legacy, all

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Speaker 1: time best advanced game statistics, acts as and o's breakdowns,

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Speaker 1: fantasy rankings, potential trades, on and on. Meantime, an outsized

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Speaker 1: portion of the conversations around the W are about racial

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Speaker 1: and homophobic slurs, harassment, and threats. And that's why I

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Speaker 1: think the commissioner and the league have a different responsibility

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Speaker 1: when it comes to addressing and communicating with the players

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Speaker 1: about it. Second, when Holly and I talk about transparency

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Speaker 1: and the W when it comes to the role the

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Speaker 1: NBA plays, I just want to add a little note

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Speaker 1: to consider. While we were on our summer break, a

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Speaker 1: Sports Business journal report claimed that Adam Silver stepped in

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Speaker 1: to suspend Alyssa Thomas after the recent bowel on Kaitlin Clark,

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Speaker 1: going above Commissioner Kathy Engelbert to do so. Silver was

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Speaker 1: asked about that report at the CNBC Sport Times Boardroom

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Speaker 1: Game Plan summit shortly after the report came out and said, quote,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to comment on that because I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's fair to Caitlin and to Kathy Engelbert either.

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Speaker 1: That's not the real issue here. End quote. Now worth

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Speaker 1: noting that Silver usually doesn't bite his tongue when it

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Speaker 1: comes to correcting the record, so that sort of non

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Speaker 1: comment was noteworthy. Now, we all know that Kathy Engelbert

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Speaker 1: will take the blame or the praise for things that

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Speaker 1: happen in the W, but it turns out she may

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Speaker 1: not actually have the power to side all of what

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Speaker 1: happens in the W. And whether you think she doesn't

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Speaker 1: get enough credit for the business side, or you think

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Speaker 1: she doesn't get criticized enough for the failures on the

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Speaker 1: communication and culture side, or both, because you can do

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Speaker 1: both at once, I think we can all say she's

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Speaker 1: been put in a pretty untenable situation as a commissioner

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Speaker 1: who answers to the owners, but even more so answers

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Speaker 1: to Adam Silver and the NBA, who seem to have

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Speaker 1: the final call, even if they'll never publicly tell us

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Speaker 1: that's the case. And that's why I keep insisting more

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Speaker 1: transparency in the WNBA MNBA partnership would be good for everyone. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: keep all that in mind as you listen to my

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Speaker 1: great combo with Holly that's coming up right after the

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Speaker 1: break joining us. Now, she's a broadcaster and reporter for

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Speaker 1: the WNBA Women's college basketball, softball and volleyball, college football,

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Speaker 1: and the MNBA. She's been contributing to ESPN for a

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Speaker 1: remarkable thirty years, twenty eight of them full time, and

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Speaker 1: has covered just about it, everything from the Running of

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Speaker 1: the Bulls to the World Cup. An Emmy Award winner,

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Speaker 1: she's an inductee into the Utah Sports Hall of Fame,

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Speaker 1: and she was honored with the prestigious Kurt Gouty Electronic

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Speaker 1: Media Award by the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame. Reporting, hosting, producing,

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Speaker 1: She's done it all. A cancer survivor, a queen on

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Speaker 1: the dance floor, fellow owner of the San Francisco Signal.

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Speaker 1: It's a fellow she Weekend attendee, also recovering from Vegas.

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Speaker 1: It's Holly row Hi, Holly, Wow.

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Speaker 2: That was quite the intro.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's so funny because you feel like you

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Speaker 2: never are enough, You've never done enough in your life.

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Speaker 2: But man, that intro. Maybe I am doing some things

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You are doing a lot of things. I had to

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Speaker 1: take out a lot of some of your best accomplishments

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Speaker 1: because we just don't have time. Holly, I mean, thirty

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Speaker 1: years is incredible, and I want to ask you really

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Speaker 1: quick before we move on to WNBA All Star and

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Speaker 1: all the fun stuff this weekend about last weekend when

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Speaker 1: we got to hang in Vegas. My favorite part, one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite parts was you absolutely killing the Roger

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Speaker 1: Rabbit on the dance floor at the club. What was

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Speaker 1: your favorite part.

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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed going to the club because you know,

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Speaker 2: like now that you're grown, they call it grown and sexy.

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Speaker 2: I think now they're popping up with grown and sexy clubs.

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Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of people that we grew up

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Speaker 2: going to the club and dancing. Like I was not

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Speaker 2: a big drinker in college. I was a big dancer,

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Speaker 2: and so like anytime you get to go to the

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Speaker 2: club and dance. But I do have one bone to

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Speaker 2: pick with you, because you know, like you can't just

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Speaker 2: go out and just be out and be like yourself

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Speaker 2: and just be the dork that you are without people

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Speaker 2: posting it on the internet. But I was like in

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Speaker 2: a safe space with my people, and so I was

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Speaker 2: like I don't gonna let loose and I'm dancing and

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Speaker 2: I'm working and I'm doing all the things. And then

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Speaker 2: somebody in our private booth did post it, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, I think they broke the code, So who

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Speaker 2: posted it? Sarah?

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Speaker 1: That would be me?

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Speaker 2: So at what point do you let people just be?

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Speaker 1: Because I thought you were so talented and amazing, I'm

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Speaker 1: so sorry. I did put it in the stories and

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Speaker 1: I didn't put it on the main just in case,

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Speaker 1: and I actually was gonna message you if I could

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Speaker 1: put it on main because I thought you looked like

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Speaker 1: a freaking badass. You are such a good dancer.

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Speaker 2: But I just literally am like, I'm a closet dancer.

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Speaker 2: I love dancing. I dance every day of my life,

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Speaker 2: but I don't know that I want to dance for

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Speaker 2: the public per se.

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Speaker 1: Okay, good to know, you know what, I have no

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Speaker 1: boundaries and I have zero privacy, so I have to

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Speaker 1: remember that some other people do. I'm doing the splits

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Speaker 1: and putting it on the main so you know me, Holly.

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Speaker 2: Well, if you can still do the splitz, you should

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Speaker 2: put it on the main and you should get all

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Speaker 2: the comments.

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Speaker 1: That's how I feel about your dancing.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's.

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Speaker 1: How I feel about your dancing. If I could dance

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Speaker 1: like that, I would be posting every day.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if America is ready for the booty.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We're all ready for the booty. And now we have

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Speaker 1: a title for today's episode.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but that weekend was so fun, and I loved

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Speaker 2: hanging out with you because we don't get always hang out.

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Speaker 2: And what I loved is I felt like I was

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Speaker 2: around so many people who are pouring into women and

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Speaker 2: empowering women and see us and I can't even tell

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Speaker 2: you how refreshing that felt and how powerful that felt.

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Speaker 2: So I loved that for all of us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really special thing about the space. And

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Speaker 1: now that I'm pretty much exclusively in women's sports, it's

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Speaker 1: remarkable to me sometimes when I dip back into the

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Speaker 1: men's side and I'm like, oh, I kind of forgot

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Speaker 1: the vibes. Very different vibes, not always bad, but just

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Speaker 1: very different.

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Speaker 2: It's different.

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Speaker 1: It was really special. We're going to hopefully be doing

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Speaker 1: a lot more hanging out because of our San Francisco signal,

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Speaker 1: the new Love expansion team starting playing January. That you

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Speaker 1: and I are both part of the ownership for.

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Speaker 2: This is our team. We are proud owners and investors

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Speaker 2: in San Francisco's signal and I'm really excited because I

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Speaker 2: believe with all of my heart that volleyball is the

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Speaker 2: next big sport to pop. And why I say that

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Speaker 2: is one it really already has popped. I just think

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Speaker 2: from a mainstream media standpoint, it hasn't reached its full potential.

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Speaker 2: So I really think that from college volleyball that we're

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Speaker 2: seeing as you know, ESPN, Big Ten Network, all these people,

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Speaker 2: they're doing all of these made for TV events now

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Speaker 2: in the preseason in August, like all these crazy places

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Speaker 2: we're going to see big volleyball matches going on. And

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Speaker 2: so I believe that this is the moment to invest

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Speaker 2: in women's volleyball, and because I love it. You know,

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Speaker 2: I have covered NCAA Women's volleyball the championship matches for

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Speaker 2: many many years, and I just I see this the potential,

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Speaker 2: so I want in on it. I believe in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there are more leagues than full time reporters covering

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Speaker 1: the sport. I think we're like at the point where

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Speaker 1: like there's more play than there is coverage, and so

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Speaker 1: as soon as that tips over and we get the

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Speaker 1: right kind of coverage and storytelling around these players and teams,

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Speaker 1: I'm completely with you it's gonna blow up. And after Vegas,

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Speaker 1: I'm even more convinced that we're gonna have a blast

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Speaker 1: as it blows up, because that is a smart and fun,

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Speaker 1: accomplished group that can also get down. So we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a lot of fun. We're gonna have a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a vibe. Well, we all went to

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Speaker 2: the championship match for League One volleyball this year and

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Speaker 2: it just reaffirmed my belief in this sport. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're sitting courtside and it is just electric and dynamic,

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Speaker 2: and Madison Skinner and Haley Washington is one of my favorites.

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Speaker 2: There's so many incredible women that you're just like, they

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Speaker 2: need to be blowing up. They need to be on

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Speaker 2: Wheaty's boxes. And if we can help elevate the profile

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Speaker 2: of these female players, we've got to do it.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more. All Right, Well, we're going from a

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Speaker 1: big weekend in Vegas straight to a big weekend in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Everyone is coming to my city for WNBA All Stars.

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Speaker 1: So I have to ask if you can even keep

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Speaker 1: count of how many WNBA All Star weekends you've been to.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, that's a great question. I actually don't know.

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Speaker 2: I know it's over ten, probably twelve or fourteen, if

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Speaker 2: I had to guess. I've been doing it a long time.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I'm one of those people. I'm bad

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Speaker 2: with like dates. You know, some people are like, well

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Speaker 2: back in twenty sixteen and blah blah blah. I want

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Speaker 2: to say it was the twenty fourteen All Star Game

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Speaker 2: is my favorite game ever. And you're you will appreciate

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Speaker 2: this story. So at halftime, you know, we're doing player access.

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Speaker 2: I'm on the bench right before halftime, interviewing Tamika Ketchings,

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Speaker 2: who is still playing at this point in the league,

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Speaker 2: and she, you know, I think we're going to have

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Speaker 2: like a lighthearted, fun All Star interview. She's furious her

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Speaker 2: team is not playing defense. She's furious. She goes into

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Speaker 2: the locker room and reads them the effing Riot Act

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Speaker 2: and is like, where's your pride? She yells at her team.

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Speaker 2: They come out, they come back. You know they were

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Speaker 2: down big, they come back. The WNBA All Star Game

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Speaker 2: goes into overtime, like I just need us to bring

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Speaker 2: back that kind of feeling where these players have so

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Speaker 2: much pride, because you know, I think last year's game

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Speaker 2: was not good. We had kind of trended towards the

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Speaker 2: MNBA where it's boring and people are just.

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Speaker 1: Kind of like a ha put up a trying to

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Speaker 1: show both, but it's a lot of turnovers.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I need it to be more competitive this year

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Speaker 2: because we want fans and people who have paid good

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Speaker 2: money to see these women showcase their skill. I think

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Speaker 2: completely that's all we ask, showcase your skill. You know,

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Speaker 2: we don't want anybody to get hurt. You don't have

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Speaker 2: to be like full court pressed or anything crazy. But like,

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Speaker 2: this is not just some laughy goofy whatever this is.

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Speaker 2: People want to see how great you are. Let's showcase

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Speaker 2: how great you are. So I really hope that I

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Speaker 2: had a few conversations, angry conversations from your auntie last

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Speaker 2: year with some of the players, like that can't happen again.

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Speaker 2: You told them doing that, and they agreed. I think

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Speaker 2: they agreed.

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Speaker 1: I'm not surprised it was Tamika Catching's who felt that way.

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Speaker 1: And since you did invoke her name, I'm required by

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Speaker 1: a law to tell everyone that in high school when

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Speaker 1: I played against her, I did block her at the

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Speaker 1: free throw line and take it down for a lamp,

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Speaker 1: and we don't need to talk about anything else that

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Speaker 1: happened in that game or any other statistics, just that

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Speaker 1: I did that back in the day.

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Speaker 2: You have that one thing that's important. I love it.

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Speaker 1: It's like my splits. I have one trick and I

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Speaker 1: have one story. But to make a catchup, can you

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Speaker 1: still telling you any you missed it? Holliday later in

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Speaker 1: the weekend of the Backstreet Boys, I dropped it down.

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Speaker 2: I'm so proud of you.

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Speaker 1: I'll send you the video. I'm proud of myself too.

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Speaker 2: You're a tall lady that you can get down and

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Speaker 2: do the splits.

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Speaker 1: Keep doing it until I can't do it anymore, just

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Speaker 1: like Britney Grinder dropping down and we surprise you sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Yea, yeah, Tallies, I love it well.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask if if you can think about

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Speaker 1: that first All Star game you went too, back in

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Speaker 1: the day, the furthest back one you can remember, and

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Speaker 1: how different it looks like from today with the activations,

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Speaker 1: the parties, the sponsor involvement, fans flying in from all over.

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Speaker 1: How different is it?

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Speaker 2: The fans have always been there. I mean, I'm so

431
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 2: proud of our fans in the WNBA WNBA fans are

432
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 2: getting a bad rap right now from the outside world

433
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,360
Speaker 2: who doesn't know us and haven't seen us. We are

434
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,359
Speaker 2: kick ass. The WNBA fans are the best. They have

435
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 2: been tried and true. They have been there for such

436
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,280
Speaker 2: a long time, and the fans have always shown up.

437
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: There has been a sold out crowd and incredible crowd

438
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 2: every single game I have ever worked for WNBA El

439
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 2: Star Weekend. What's different is the brand activation. So I

440
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 2: can remember the last time the All Star Game was

441
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 2: in Chicago was the first time I really felt like

442
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 2: things had started to shift because brands sponsored parties. Sue

443
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 2: Bird had a party, Together had a party, Candis Parker

444
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 2: had a party. I think Asia may have had a party.

445
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 2: You know. I think that that's the first time that

446
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 2: I saw brands start to say, oh, we have consumers,

447
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,640
Speaker 2: we have women with money, who's gonna spend money if

448
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 2: we support the athletes that they like. And now, I mean,

449
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 2: I have gotten so many invitations right now, I literally

450
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,439
Speaker 2: am like, I'm gonna have to pick and choose between parties,

451
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 2: which oh, totally too much. What a great feeling that is.

452
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 1: And so I think especially the sponsor activations, the parties

453
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 1: that are backed by brands and the sponsor activations. I

454
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: remember a couple of years ago going into one that

455
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: was celebrating Sue Bird's career, and it felt like the

456
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 1: equivalent of what an NBA player would get at the

457
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 1: end of his career, and I was like, she deserves this,

458
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 1: And it almost made me cry walking through this multi

459
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: room dedication to each part of her career and what

460
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: she'd accomplished, because it had been a long time that

461
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 1: the players had not gotten that kind of moment. You

462
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: talked about the fans. You've been covering this league since

463
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: it began. You were the lead analysts for the Utah

464
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,360
Speaker 1: Stars with twosies before they relocated to San Antonio, long

465
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 1: before the franchise became the Aces, And with that history

466
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: in mind, I wonder how you would describe the state

467
00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: of the W at the.

468
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: Here's what I think. The state of the W is healthy.

469
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 2: It is happy. If you go to arenas and participate

470
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 2: in the games and see the games, it is healthy

471
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 2: and wonderful. What is not healthy and wonderful is online,

472
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 2: and really it's become a toxic environment outside of the arena.

473
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 2: And I am to the point now that I have

474
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: just made a conscientious decision in my life because I

475
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: do feel some ownership and accountability for this league. You know,

476
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: I have devoted much of my life to help build

477
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 2: this WNBA and support and showcase, and I'm not buying

478
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 2: into it anymore. I'm really going to be done talking

479
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 2: about the toxicity. I really don't want to talk about it.

480
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 2: I want to talk about I just saw the most

481
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: incredible game with Pagebeckers and the La Sparks, and.

482
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: I saw you were on the call for it, yes,

483
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: and everyone loved it. By the way, online where all

484
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 1: it is ever is people trash talking, and all I

485
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: saw was, Oh, Holly Row, we need more of this. Oh,

486
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 1: Holly's great on the call, Oh this is awesome.

487
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 2: That was very sweet, full disclosed. I found out a

488
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: few hours before the game, Ryan and Rebecca's flights had

489
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: been canceled because of all the smokes and then rain

490
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,159
Speaker 2: going into New York City, and so last second we

491
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 2: had to scramble. So I became the color analyst and

492
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,360
Speaker 2: this delightful young man named John Schiffren. And by the way,

493
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,679
Speaker 2: he called the White Sox that's so aggressive, Holly, And

494
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 2: how about this we did not get I didn't get

495
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 2: this in the broadcast, and I really regret it. He

496
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: was a practice player for the Las Vegas Aces back

497
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: in the day, so so think about him. He's getting

498
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,199
Speaker 2: to call his first WNBA game where he has been

499
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: a practice player and invested in the league. Wow. So

500
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 2: it was this really wholesome, cool moment. Fans were very nice. Obviously,

501
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not perfect at that skill. It's not

502
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: something I do often, but I was proud to be

503
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 2: there and I was really the game was so incredible.

504
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 2: Paige Beckers like, drops my job on. Real people are

505
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: making moves. Erica Wheeler. You know, Erica Wheeler at thirty

506
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: five years old is d n up page Beckers, and

507
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: she did a really good job. She held page one

508
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 2: for in the third quarter. So shout out weezye. I

509
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 2: saw your defense. Like, yeah, I'm just I am going

510
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: to stop using the what it really has become just

511
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: clickbait because here's what's happening is men, mostly men, have

512
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 2: figured out that if they talk about certain people, they

513
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 2: will get clicks on their shows, and so they're exhausting it.

514
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: So I want us to take the power back and say,

515
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 2: you know what, the click I'm going to make is

516
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: on someone's great performance and someone's great skill set and

517
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 2: someone's great competitive nature and someone's great story. Yes, instead

518
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 2: of the toxic stuff. We control that. Yeah, we're the

519
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 2: ones that control that. So that's our new model.

520
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 1: Well, and we have to help put it out there

521
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: because one of the things that's problematic, and you're talking

522
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: about this thing I've been thinking for the last couple

523
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: of seasons, like you're trying to hold at once both

524
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: the joy and celebration of thirty years and new CBA

525
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: players getting paid, more attention, more coverage, more investment, and

526
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: at the same time the growing pains of all of

527
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: that and the misguided or even sometimes intentionally polemical coverage

528
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: that enrages people, so then they get engaged, and how

529
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: do you hold both at once? And for me, a

530
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: lot of it is just put more out there that's

531
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 1: about the players and what they're achieving, and occasionally address

532
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: the toxicity when necessary, but for the most part, try

533
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 1: to focus on the good stuff. And the problem is

534
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: without a monoculture in the WNBA, where fans who don't

535
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: understand how the internet is trying to work them can

536
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: get tricked by honestly propaganda where if you only see

537
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: slow mos of Caitlin Clark getting fouled and still shots

538
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: of Kaitlin Clark getting fouled, and that's all you ever see,

539
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: you assume that's the only thing happening if you're not

540
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: watching the games, and so someone can convince you that

541
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: something is happening that isn't real, and it snowballs and

542
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: it becomes the main talking point about a league that

543
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: to your point, pagebackers that other players are doing stuff

544
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: every night that's way more fun to talk about and

545
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: way more important to talk about. I'm wondering if you

546
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: feel like that's at all something that the WNBA should

547
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 1: and can do something about. Online vitriol is not something

548
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: the league can control. It exists everywhere, but could and

549
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: should they be doing more?

550
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 2: Yes? They actually, I mean one, it's free speech. You

551
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: can't really control what people are going to do or

552
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 2: tweet it. That's sort of the beauty of social media, right.

553
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: But they have started using and I know they've invested

554
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: you know, maybe six figures in these programs that monitor

555
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 2: that are looking for hate speech, that are looking for threats,

556
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 2: and then trying to forward those two security people like

557
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: I think the WNBA gets a lot of criticism for

558
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 2: things they're not doing right, and they're not perfect. They're

559
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: not doing everything right. I think they could be more

560
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,959
Speaker 2: proactive in some of these things and quicker to react

561
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: in some of these things. But they have put so

562
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: much money into security. If you look at a WNBA

563
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 2: game right now, there's more security around benches, in the tunnels,

564
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 2: in the crowd and the travel parties. The WNBA has

565
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: ramped up their security I would say from twenty to

566
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: one hundred in the last four years. That's important.

567
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's the no space for

568
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: hate stuff, right we were looking for where does that

569
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: show up? But I think we expected maybe more public facing,

570
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: but it's actually all the work that's happening behind the

571
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: scenes to protect the players. But what about the public

572
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: facing arm because you know the email about the Alisa

573
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: Thomas flagrant but not about other player fouls. The fact

574
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: that both Dowana and at thought that they should be

575
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: getting better communication from the commissioner about the death threats

576
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: and the awful things they were receiving. How can the

577
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: players feel maybe psychologically supported in the same way that

578
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: they might actually be physically protected now by those new

579
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 1: security measures.

580
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: I think that's a great question. But I want to

581
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: ask people this question. Do you think Adam Silver or

582
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: Roger Goodell calls every player that has a grief or

583
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 2: a problem in the right And I don't want to

584
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: minimize any any way, what Dowanna and Alissa are experiencing.

585
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: Those are horrific, and I don't want to minimize that.

586
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 2: But I believe that the commissioner would be very well

587
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: suited to have you know, we used to have this

588
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 2: back in the day, and I actually, you know, they

589
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: have reordered a few times. I don't know if they

590
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: have a strong lead for this right now that there

591
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 2: is a person in the league office. I know Bethany

592
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: has been, you know, kind of helping with player relationships,

593
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: has been a longtime friend and really great person for

594
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: people in the league. But they could really benefit from

595
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 2: maybe somebody younger, former player that has like these connections

596
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 2: that are emotional connections with players, like, hey, if you

597
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 2: have a problem, you have my phone number, I'm calling you,

598
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: We're calling. I don't necessarily know that it needs to

599
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 2: come from the Commissioner's office, you know, Like I feel

600
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 2: like Kathy should be worried about business right.

601
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you, and I think you leave

602
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 1: me to my next question. I think in men's sports,

603
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: you would not expect the commissioner to have that necessarily

604
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: direct line to the players. I do think maybe there's

605
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 1: an argument that this league needs it, and if it's

606
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: not Kathy Engelbert, maybe Kathy Engelbert's the CEO or the

607
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: president and a former player is more the commissioner type.

608
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: Because one of the things I'll say about women's leagues

609
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: is if the coverage is not multi dimensional enough that

610
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: this is one small piece. If instead the majority of

611
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: coverage that makes it mainstream is stuff that drives harassment

612
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: and vitry and death threats, there is more of a

613
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: requirement from leadership to address it in the NFL. In

614
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: the NBA, you're getting all the good stuff and the

615
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: money that you can pay for security and the benefits

616
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: of the fame and all the coverage of your play.

617
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: But they're all getting death threats. Agreed, But it's you

618
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: want to see toxic. Totally agree like that. We think

619
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: this is only women really bothers me because we are

620
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: every part of our society right now. Sarah tries to

621
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: tear down women. They start with Kathy Ingelbert. This CBA

622
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 2: doesn't get done without Kathy. I know for a fact

623
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: that things that happen behind the scene. She saved this deal,

624
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 2: she got this deal done, she got the players paid.

625
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: I don't see anybody giving her any credit for that.

626
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: That infuriates me because women do not get the credit

627
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: they deserve, and they get more of the criticism than

628
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: they deserve. That's how we operate with women.

629
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: And I agree with that and buy into it. We're

630
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: at faults, I agree, But don't you also think the

631
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: WNBA and the NBA could do themselves a favor in

632
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: that regard if there was more transparency around the Engelbert's

633
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: role in relation to Adam Silver in relation to the NBA,

634
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: because she's going to get the brunt of it. Even

635
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: if the power ultimately lies with Adam Silver and the NBA,

636
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: there's no transparency about that relationship or about how some

637
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: of the decisions are made about the w from somebody outside.

638
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: Is every CEO and every business in America transparent? Like

639
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: that's why do they have to be transparent?

640
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: Well, from my point of view, I think the WNBA

641
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: suffers because of the way the NBA is able to

642
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: manipulate and use them as a part of their business

643
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: as opposed to as an entity that I think it

644
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: benefits extremely from its link to the NBA. But during

645
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,959
Speaker 1: negotiations in particular, the players even did not have a

646
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 1: real transparent understanding of the balance between what percentage goes

647
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,959
Speaker 1: here and who does this and who makes this decision.

648
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 1: That's the only reason I would say that then she

649
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: will get shited on for things that to your point,

650
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: maybe behind the scenes she's not responsible for. She's actually

651
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: working on behalf of them while other people. But what's

652
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: going to happen is with with her being the commissioner,

653
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: She's the one that the buck ultimately is going to

654
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: stop with her as far as the public knows, unless

655
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: we have more transparency about who else is operating.

656
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: Does Roger Goodell get paid to take all the grief

657
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: in the NFL? That is his job? So what's wrong

658
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: with that?

659
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah? Again, I completely agree with you. My question is

660
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: is this job different because because of the expectation we

661
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: have the intersectionality of women's sports, the relationship between the

662
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: players and leadership, and also again because as of right now,

663
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: coverage of the league is often too much about the

664
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: negative and the death threats and the toxicity and harassment.

665
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, where's that coverage in the NBA and the

666
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: NFL that's happening, And it's really driven I would say,

667
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: primarily by gambling. There's there's all kinds of layers. There's

668
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: so many different stratas in these conversations, and to say

669
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: that it's one thing or it's another, you know, that

670
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: is a little bit frustrating, But just go on NBA Twitter.

671
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying that

672
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 1: what I'm part of it is it's part of a

673
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: huge media coverage. And in the women's side, we don't

674
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: have twenty four to seven coverage of all the good

675
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: stuff and the box scores and the stats and the

676
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: accomplishments and the thing.

677
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: So let fits that part.

678
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what I'm saying.

679
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: Fix, That's what we fix.

680
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: That's why I think right now, at this moment in time,

681
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: leadership in the WNBA has more of a responsibility for

682
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: that than on the men's side, because right now that's.

683
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 2: So sexist, like why why can't we be just like

684
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: the men? I just find that so problematic.

685
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: Because the impact on the men is very different, both

686
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: in terms of security, the money that they have to

687
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: protect themselves, the.

688
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 2: Way that week Saquon Bard police house just got robbed

689
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: with him and his family in it last night. I

690
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 2: think all of the men are going through these exact

691
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 2: same things. But here's my frustration. And you know, we

692
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: treat women differently in this country, and I'm just exhausted

693
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 2: with it. I am so exhausted with it. And we're

694
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 2: holding them to a higher standard. It's like you know

695
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: that that soliloquy or that monologue in Barbie. Yeah, it's

696
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: like I have to be perfect. I'm too skinny, I'm

697
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 2: not enough, I'm this on this. That's what we're demanding

698
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: of women in the WNBA. You're not friendly enough, You're

699
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: not this. We just had this big controversy in softball

700
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: this summer because a pitcher, Sam Landry, was sick and

701
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: she didn't want to stay and sign autographs after the

702
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: game and expose people to her illness. She got ripped.

703
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: Parents were online dragging this woman. It became a million

704
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: tweet controversy in an AUSL softball because this one player,

705
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 2: on a day she was ill, didn't stop and sign autographs.

706
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: That is holding a female athlete to a standard we

707
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: would never hold a man to. So what I'm saying

708
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: to you is we have to just stop, we get

709
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: to act just like and there's you know, there's a

710
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: part of me that's like, well, we're better than the man,

711
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: and we're nicer than the men, and we're more inclusive

712
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: and we are more enlightened, and like, yes, I do

713
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: feel all those things, but I'm super tired of you know,

714
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: let's treat Kathy just like Roger Goodell gets treated. Let's

715
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 2: treat let's treat her like Adam Silver gets treated, you know,

716
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 2: like us wanting to be the soft yummy too. That's

717
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: just unrealistic.

718
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: I mean, Roger Goodell gets it, gets a lot of criticism,

719
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, and.

720
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 2: He gets paid to that's agreed, Yeah.

721
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: To take the heat for the owners, Holly, I completely

722
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: agree with everything you're saying, and so yes, and I

723
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: also think that there are realities about existing as a

724
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: woman in this country and in society that does require

725
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: a different perspective sometimes, yes to all the don't hold

726
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: us to a higher standard, don't expect us to be

727
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 1: perfect all the time. Don't expect every athlete to be

728
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: the nicest, kindest, person at every moment, all the time,

729
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: and also recognize that it is a different relationship between

730
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: fans and players, between the everyday person and women, safety,

731
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: all the other things, the way that misogyny and frankly,

732
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: the way that men can view women not all men

733
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 1: hashtag not all men, is much more dangerous. Flat out,

734
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: it is more dangerous for women, and they feel more

735
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 1: endangered when they get threats than men do, especially men

736
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: in multimillion dollar mansions with tons of security. That's the

737
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: only reason that I look at it differently, not because

738
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: we should view everyone differently in the worst ways, but

739
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: in the necessary ways.

740
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a whole different conversation. That's not actually what

741
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 2: we were even talking about. We're talking about Kathy and

742
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: does someone in the league need to be more accountable

743
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 2: and I do think they can be better reactive. That's

744
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: how we started this whole conversation. I think what you're

745
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: talking about with security and safety and how that relates

746
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 2: to money, that's a completely different conversation. That's not what

747
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 2: we're talking about. So I don't want, you know, people

748
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 2: will take a clip and make this no, no text,

749
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 2: that's actually not what we're talking about. So I just want.

750
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who are doing all this

751
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: toxicity online and all the things we're seeing. They're doing

752
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 2: it for misogynistic reasons. They're doing it to tear down women.

753
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: This league has been so celebratory, so inclusive. You know,

754
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 2: the WNBA helped flip the Senate in this country, and

755
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: I know that there's a huge segment of society that

756
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 2: doesn't like that and doesn't want them to be strong

757
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: and powerful and connected and unified, and they're chipping away

758
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 2: at that, just like they are our entire society exactly

759
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 2: the same playbook. We just have to be smart enough

760
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: to say we're not following your playbook. We get to

761
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: own and curate the content that is put out there

762
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: and what we're discussing and what we're talking about. So

763
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: I am going to only continue talking about the joyful

764
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: places that I live in in the WNBA, because I

765
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 2: go to games. It is happy, he's joyful. If you

766
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: are in the arena participating in these moments, it is

767
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: incredible and wonderful, and we are celebrating how good these

768
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: women are.

769
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's why I name the show Good Game, Holly.

770
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: It's why I name the show Good Game because when

771
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: I go to these games, it is good feelings, good

772
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: vibes all the time. Speaking up, we're running out of

773
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: time here, so I want to ask you for some

774
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: goods in a speed round before we get to the

775
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: All Star break, because we're kind of at the midway

776
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: point of the season. So most surprising team in a

777
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 1: positive way so far this season Dallas.

778
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: I think the Dallas Wings are really good. They are

779
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 2: built to have a long run in the WNBA playoffs,

780
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: primarily because they're deep. They've got players off the bench,

781
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: they've got size, they've got bigs, and then they have

782
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: the best backcourt right now probably in the league outside

783
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 2: of I mean, you could make the argument for Caitlin

784
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: and Kelsey Mitchell. Kelsey Mitchell is having another back to

785
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 2: back season of her life. Everything we need to be

786
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: talking about is Kelsey Mitchell.

787
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: Twenty points are more in her last ten games, back

788
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: to back thirty plus point games.

789
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 2: She is on a role, She is the truth. And

790
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: so I think Dallas is really fun because Jose Fernandez

791
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: is a guy. I worked a game with Gino Oriama

792
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, and he coached against Jose

793
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 2: for a long time in college basketball, and he said

794
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 2: he's very clever. Is in a game. He can change

795
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: the matchups, he can change the offense, he can scheme

796
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 2: and adjust, and that word clever has stood out to me.

797
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: And their offense is very clever and how they adapt

798
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: and adjust the usage between pagebackers and Jessicas Shepard. He's

799
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: having one of the best years we've ever seen, incredible

800
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 2: WNBA history. So I think Dallas, I know that wasn't

801
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: a faster round. I'll try to faster on the next pot. Okay,

802
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: Dallas is my good surprise outside.

803
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,720
Speaker 1: Of Jessica Shepperd because I think we can all agree

804
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: probably one of the most surprising players in a positive

805
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: way this season with the triple doubles and the impact

806
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 1: and the way they're using her on that team. Is

807
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 1: there another most surprising player in a positive way?

808
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: Marina Maybray. I'm really proud of what Marina's doing, you

809
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: know she I did an interview with her last week

810
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: and she talked about having a big chip on her

811
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: shoulder because she wasn't protected in the expansion draft and

812
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,399
Speaker 2: so the Toronto Tempo take her first, and she has

813
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 2: rewarded that franchise by being a player that they can

814
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 2: count on competing night in a night Out dropped fifty

815
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: three points already in the W this season, and I

816
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: just love she plays with this unique balance of chip

817
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,240
Speaker 2: on her shoulder and an edge, and she's actually working

818
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: with an energy coach. I found this to be very fascinating,

819
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: so that her energy is right where it needs to be.

820
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 2: She does want to play with that edge and that

821
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 2: passion that makes her special, but harness it in a

822
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: way where it's not detrimental to her her teammates or distracting.

823
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 2: So she's working with an energy coach. It was I

824
00:38:57,840 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 2: just love what Marina's doing right now.

825
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: Not detrimental to that giant salary she's making now either,

826
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: because that crashout jar she's losing all her cash. Whenever

827
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: she has a crash out, She's got to protect that money.

828
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's very aware of when and how the crash

829
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: outs to turn it on, to turn it up for

830
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: her team, which is interesting.

831
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: Okay, who's the team with the brightest future over the

832
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: next five years? Valkyriese already in second place. Unbelievable.

833
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want so. When we're talking about we need

834
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: to do a better job of covering the W and

835
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 2: the good that's happening here the Valkyries and what they

836
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 2: have done as an expansion franchise in the last two seasons.

837
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: It should be shouted from every major platform, like I

838
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 2: have not seen a mainstream media you know, like you know,

839
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 2: and maybe I've missed it. I don't want to call

840
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: out names because maybe I was in Italy for a while,

841
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: so maybe they didn't I didn't see it. But where

842
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: is Natalie Nicrosse on the morning shows? You know? Like,

843
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 2: where is she on the morning shows? Why aren't the

844
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: valkyriese the biggest story in sports? They are selling it

845
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: out eighteen thousand strong every night, The fans are incredible, Balhalla,

846
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 2: the marketing, that everything is so perfect, and this is

847
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 2: a team of players that nobody else really wanted or

848
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 2: invested in and they are winning.

849
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they brought over the couple pieces that are

850
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: really I mean, what about Gatney Williams watch.

851
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's been a big addition. But anyway, I think

852
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: the Valkyries are the best story in sports. Now that

853
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 2: the World Cup's over, we need to that they need

854
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 2: some more publicity.

855
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 1: All right, Before I let you go, what are you

856
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: personally most excited for this weekend in Chicago.

857
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that's a hard one because I really it's people,

858
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: you know, like I so deeply love and respect and

859
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 2: admire all of the women in this league. You know,

860
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 2: Courtney Williams. I try to be unbiased, but Courtney Williams

861
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: is my favorite person in the WNBA. I like, if

862
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 2: I could be her mother, I would try to her

863
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: adoptive mother. I love her more than life, so I

864
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 2: want to see all the stud bud stuff. She has

865
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: got the cutest personality and the best vibe. I love

866
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 2: her so much. But really it's just hanging out with

867
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: all the people, getting to see the players, know what

868
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: they're wearing, what they're showcasing, how they represent their brand,

869
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 2: and then just connecting with everybody. Yet yeah, parties and

870
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: all the events around it. It's just going to be

871
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: a big love fest, and I'm here for it.

872
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 1: Well. I promise if I catch you dancing, not only

873
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: will I not post it, I won't even film it.

874
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 1: I'll just take it in with my own two eyes.

875
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: I'll bank the memory when I need some joy later.

876
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 2: No, come dance with me, that's what you do.

877
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 1: I will be dancing with you.

878
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 2: I got to see these split sister. If I don't

879
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 2: see the splits this weekend, I'll be disappointed.

880
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: I will make sure I'm wearing splits of Probes outfits

881
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: so I can drop it down at any time. I

882
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 1: gotta find Brittany Griner because I think that's my next

883
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: video is me and britt dropping into the splits next

884
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: to each other.

885
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 2: Twin split duo.

886
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, this is now our That's on my bucket

887
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: list for this weekend. Holly, you're the best. We could

888
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: talk about this forever and I love perspective on all

889
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: of it. I look forward to seeing you this weekend.

890
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

891
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Holly for taking the time and hanging out.

892
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: And my apologies again on the Vegas video. If I

893
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: could move like that, I would want everyone to see it.

894
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,919
Speaker 1: Don't forget. You can now watch full length good Game

895
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: interviews on the Iheartwomen's Sports YouTube channel. We have to

896
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: take another break. When we come back. It's like this

897
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: and like that and like this, and it's like that

898
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: and like this and like that and a just stick around.

899
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,799
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Spain and this segment of Committed to Care, Women,

900
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: Health and Sports is presented by United healthcare. In the

901
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: lead up to the Milan Courtina Olympics, I'd been watching

902
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: Lindsay Vaughn's come back in AWE. Forty one years old,

903
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: returning from a partial knee replacement and six years retired.

904
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: She was thriving, winning, doing what might have seemed impossible

905
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 1: a few years earlier. Then the worst possible twist, a

906
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: completely ruptured ACL, suffered one week before the Olympic downhill final.

907
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: Vond consulted with doctors and they decided she could ski

908
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 1: through it. Wow, the word comeback doesn't quite cover it.

909
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: It was a comeback inside a comeback inside a career

910
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 1: full of comebacks. But then she crashed. The dream ended

911
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 1: on the mountain in a way that felt both devastating

912
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: and in the context of who Lindsey Vaughn is, somehow

913
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: completely true to form. Here's what I kept coming back

914
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: to weeks later, not the crash, but everything that came

915
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 1: before it. Vaughn didn't retire on her own terms in

916
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen. Her body made that decision. For her years

917
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: of ACL and MCL repairs, a knee that couldn't fully

918
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,400
Speaker 1: bend or straighten, pain that had become the baseline. She

919
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: left on her own timeline, only in the sense that

920
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: she finally agreed with what her body had been telling

921
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:43,360
Speaker 1: her for years. And then at forty, she had a

922
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: partial knee replacement, and within a month she could straighten

923
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: her leg fully for the first time in years. She

924
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: started to dream again. She came back, She started winning

925
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: World Cup races. She started to imagine a return to

926
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: the Olympic podium. She could see it, and we could

927
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: so when she stood in the Olympic start gate and

928
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: said she could do it, we believe she would win.

929
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,439
Speaker 1: The crash might have seemed like the culmination of all

930
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: that hard work to get back, but for me, the

931
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: peak was seeing her in the starting gate for a race,

932
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: any race, reclaiming her body, rediscovering the sports she loved,

933
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: rewriting what can be done post forty, post surgeries, post retirement,

934
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,479
Speaker 1: and that all of that reclamation and reinvention came because

935
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,440
Speaker 1: she had a dedicated team of people working to understand, treat, heal,

936
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: and strengthen her body. Imagine if every female athlete's body

937
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: could be understood as well as Lindsay's is understood. For

938
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: a long time, a lack of research and vetted science

939
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: around women's bodies prevented female athletes from reaching the highest

940
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: heights and kept them from competing after injury, after childbirth,

941
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: or after a certain age. As investment into researching women

942
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,240
Speaker 1: athletes and women's bodies increases, those antiquated ideas about what's

943
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 1: possible are increasingly getting shouted down to cut down on

944
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: the disproportionate number of acl taars in women's sports. We're

945
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: finally studying periods in sport, how menstrual cycles affect injury risk, recovery,

946
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: and performance, and what about the effects of perimenopause and

947
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: postmenopause on participation in sport. We're finally digging in on average,

948
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: women will live a third of their lives postmenopausally, and

949
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 1: many want to stay active and stay competing. Understanding how

950
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: and why injuries happen and how hormonal changes impact every

951
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 1: stage of a women's life is so key to keeping

952
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: her in the game, whether at an elite level, we're

953
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: just competing in adult rec leagues or fun runs. Lindsey

954
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: Vaughn's comeback doesn't happen without a coordinated team around her, communicating, watching, adjusting,

955
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 1: and teaching. Most athletes don't have that kind of team.

956
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: Most women managing serious injuries are navigating a far more

957
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: fragmented system. One doctor here, a specialist there, a follow

958
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: up that falls through the cracks, a referral that takes

959
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: three weeks to come through. The comeback is just is

960
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: hard for them, but the support isn't there. That's the

961
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: gap that United Healthcare is committed to close, because the

962
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: thing that makes it comeback possible isn't just talent and will.

963
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 1: It's having people around you who show up at the

964
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: right moment, a care team that's connected, not siloed, a

965
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: system that coordinates your orthopedic appointments, your rehab schedule, your

966
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: follow up imaging so that you're not the one holding

967
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: the pieces together while also trying to heal. They believe

968
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: in committing to the comeback for every woman athlete, Elite

969
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: or every day. With more information about how women's bodies work,

970
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 1: women athletes will be able to envision longer and healthier careers,

971
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: and with a coordinated team around them, they'll be able

972
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: to put together their own comeback story. Now, maybe it's

973
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: not standing in an Olympic start gate. Maybe it's finishing

974
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 1: a five k after a year of recovery, or getting

975
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: back to playing soccer in the backyard. We're returning to

976
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: a morning walk routine that starts the day off right.

977
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: Those are important comebacks too. Every one of them counts,

978
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: and every one of them is easier when you don't

979
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: have to navigate the hard parts of This segment is

980
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: presented by United Healthcare United Healthcare Committed to Care. We

981
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: love that you're listening, but we want you to get

982
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: in the game every day too, So here's our good

983
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 1: game play of the day. Come hang out with us.

984
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: Big Citrus has headed to Chicago for WNBA All Star Weekend. Well,

985
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm always here when I'm not traveling, but producers Alex

986
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 1: and Bianca are traveling here, flying in as we speak. Actually,

987
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: we'll be at Level Sporting Club, a women's sports bar,

988
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: for live editions of Good Game with Sarah Spain and

989
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: Flagran and Funny with Jamel Hill and Carey Champion this

990
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: Friday tomorrow, So stop by twelve thirty to three for

991
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: all the fun. No registration or few required, Just show

992
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: up preferably with your good Game merch on. We'll include

993
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 1: the address and other details in the show notes. We

994
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:45,839
Speaker 1: always love to hear from you, so hit us up

995
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: on email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave

996
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: us a voicemail at eight seven two two oh four

997
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: fifty seventy and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review, y'all.

998
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 1: It's so easy. Watch the NWSL looking for that World

999
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: Cup bump one of one great social post review. The

1000
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,000
Speaker 1: NWSL recently posted a fantastic carousel of images connecting top

1001
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: players from the women's game with standout players from the

1002
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: recent FIFA Men's World Cup. The caption reads, if you

1003
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: like this FIFA Men's World Cup Star, you'll like this

1004
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: NWSL star, and then a series of slides. There's one

1005
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: comparing Trinity Rodman to Fellow's speedy defender stretcher with a

1006
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: killer left foot, Spain's Lamina Mal. There's one comparing Claire

1007
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: Hutton to fellow young up and coming creative playmaker Gilberto

1008
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: Mora of Mexico. Now, the NWSL sometimes faces complaints about

1009
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,439
Speaker 1: not keeping soccer the main thing, and I will say

1010
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: it's hard to balance promoting all the things we love

1011
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: about women's sports games x is and O, storytelling, player profiles, fitcheck,

1012
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: sponsor activations, all of it, which is why I especially

1013
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 1: love them here drilling down on what makes these players

1014
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 1: great players and I love them, trying to take advantage

1015
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: of the excitement and enthusiasm around the world's best men

1016
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,240
Speaker 1: playing on the biggest stage. Also pairing Roseavell and Lionel

1017
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: Messi to quote technical players with the lead ball handling.

1018
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 1: Love it too good Now it's your turn, y'all rate

1019
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: and review, Thanks for listening. See you tomorrow for our

1020
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 1: five one hundredth episode of Good Game, featuring special guest

1021
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,840
Speaker 1: and friend of the show, Cheryl Reeve, making a return

1022
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: appearance ahead of her all star coaching duties. And you

1023
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: know Cheryl's always full of great takes and opinions, so

1024
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: you don't want to miss it. Good Game, Holly, Good Game,

1025
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: Defisa call, You're welcome back, You anyone who doesn't acknowledge

1026
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: their own privilege. Good Game with Sarah Spain is an

1027
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports

1028
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 1: and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,

1029
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by

1030
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzi and Bianca Hillier.

1031
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan

1032
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Lucy Jones,

1033
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from Avery LOFTUS

1034
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain