1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello Sunshine. Today, on the bright side, we're 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: talking alter egos, abandoning, limiting beliefs, and girlhood angst with 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Alexin Feral Fallmuth. She's the author of Twelfth Night, the 4 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: summer young adult pick for Reese's Book Club. It's Thursday, 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: July eleventh. I'm Danielle Robe. 6 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 2: And I'm Simone Boyce. This is the bright side from 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 2: Hello Sunshine. Danielle, our guest today, exemplifies what is possible 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 2: when you stop caring about what others think, You let 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: go of those limiting beliefs, and you just pursue that passion. 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: Honey. Yes. Alexin Feral Falmouth is a New York Times 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: bestselling author, and her latest book, Twelfth Night, is the 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 1: summer young adult pick for Reese's Book Club, and her 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: path towards success didn't start with the makings of a 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: happy ending. So. She is the daughter of a Filipino immigrant, 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: and Alexin has said that writing wasn't something her parents 16 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: considered a quote unquote responsible career choice, So instead of 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: pursuing writing at a young age, Alexin earned her master's 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: degree in urban planning. Then she tried to stint In 19 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: law school and worked in a public defender's office. She 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: even pursued a career in real estate, but despite doing 21 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: the responsible thing, Alexin never quite found fulfillment. 22 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: Alexin said that she'd turned to writing during challenging times 23 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,959 Speaker 2: because it became this cathartic exercise that helped her process 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 2: whatever she was going through. So she discovered fan fiction, 25 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 2: and she became inspired and started writing her own fan fiction, 26 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: even self publishing it on the Internet, and then ultimately 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: she became the New York Times bestselling author of a 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: book called Atlas six. 29 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: And here's where there's a bit of a twist in 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: her story. Alexin didn't want to publish under her real 31 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: name because she still had some mixed feelings and she 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: didn't want her mom to know that she was writing, 33 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: so she wrote under a pen name. Most of her 34 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: fans knew her as her alter ego, Olive Blake. 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: And Olive Blake became this huge success in the fantasy 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: novel space. But Alexine had the urge to try her 37 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: hand at a ya novel, and so, for the very 38 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: first time, she bet on her own name, and she 39 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 2: did so confidently. That novel my mechanical romance became a 40 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: huge success, and it led to another YA novel, Twelfth Night, 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: the Summer YA pick for Reese's Book Club. It's loosely 42 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: inspired by the famous play by William Shakespeare of the 43 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: same name, and maybe even a little of that Amanda 44 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: Bynd's movie She's the Man Today. She owns her voice 45 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: and has the best of both worlds. She continues to 46 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: write for adults under the pen name Olivi Blake, and 47 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: then she writes for the young adult genre under her 48 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: actual name Alexin Ferrel Falmouth. 49 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: So I have a little bit of a confession. I 50 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: love YA novels. I think they're so fun to read. 51 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 1: People always talk about like a fun summer beach read. 52 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: I love a YA summer beach read. So I really 53 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: enjoyed reading this book. And Alexine has this sociological perspective, 54 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: and so when she takes you through these characters' interactions, 55 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: it feels like there's actually more depth to it. You're 56 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: sort of learning You're not just learning about them, but 57 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: you're learning about yourself as you're reading this book and 58 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: kind of taking yourself back to your teenage girl years. 59 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: And she also flips some traditional gender norms on their head, 60 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: which is really fun to read. I'm a real Alexine fan, 61 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: so I'm really excited that she's here with us today. 62 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: Let's bring her in. Alexine, Welcome to the bright Side. 63 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be. 64 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: Here, Alexine. I think you're our first author here in person. 65 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: We're so happy to. 66 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: Have you, so happy to be here. 67 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 4: So yeah, I think this is the first Oh no, wait, sorry, 68 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 4: it's the second time I've done a podcast recording in person. 69 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 4: But you know, second the best. As they say on 70 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 4: the playgrounds, Alexiine, you've been largely known as Olivi Blake 71 00:03:59,320 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 4: for years. 72 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: Yes, and I am so intrigued into alter egos, Like 73 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: I feel like this is something that I need in 74 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: my life. But I know that there's a really personal 75 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: story behind this for you. So where did the need 76 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: to create an alter ego come from? 77 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 4: Everything I bought my writing career is pretty much an accident. 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 4: The only thing I did on purpose was the writing. 79 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 4: I dropped out of law school and didn't know what 80 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 4: I wanted to do with my life and was just 81 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 4: sort of going from job to job for a while. 82 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 4: Had some you know, menty ills to handle, and was 83 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 4: having a particularly insomniatic week when I discovered fan fiction, 84 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 4: and so I was like, well, this is something I 85 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 4: can do. I can fill the nights with writing fan fiction. 86 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 4: But I want to try my hand at writing erotica. 87 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 4: I want to write sex. I don't want my mother 88 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 4: to find it. So I just pulled up a name generator. 89 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 4: The first name that came up was Olivi Blake, and 90 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 4: I was like, all right, cool, that's my user name. 91 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: No way, it came from a name generator. 92 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 4: Oh yes, so yeah, and then and I wrote fan 93 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 4: fiction for a while, decided like this is I feel 94 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 4: best when I am being creative. But I think I'm 95 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 4: the daughter of an immigrant, so a practical career was 96 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 4: like always the only thing on the table, Like artistic 97 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 4: pursuits were a thing you did for fun and not 98 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 4: a real possibility. So like, this is something I could 99 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 4: only have done later in life, after I had failed 100 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 4: at other things. And yeah, and but once I decided, 101 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 4: it was like, oh, this is when you know, I 102 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 4: feel the most mentally healthy. This is when my brain 103 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 4: is at its best and I feel most like alive 104 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 4: this way, doing this channeling my energy into this. I 105 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 4: decided that I wanted to be traditionally published, but that's difficult. 106 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 4: It's a long road, and I would write ideas that 107 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 4: weren't particularly marketable. The best example I have for this 108 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 4: is my first book was Masters of Death. So I 109 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 4: self published it because I had my fan fiction audience, 110 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 4: and I made it as the price as low as 111 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 4: I possibly could. It was basically just the price of 112 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 4: print it. Anytime I had an idea that didn't feel 113 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 4: right for the market, I would self publish it just 114 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 4: to have the story be alive, I think, which comes 115 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 4: from it. Those are like fandom instincts. It's just like 116 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 4: I have a story, maybe someone will want it. And 117 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 4: then finally I saw some success with my Mechanical Romance, 118 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 4: which is my first YA rom com. 119 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 3: It was Girls in Stem. 120 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 4: It was something that was hot YA like specifically rom 121 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 4: coms were very hot at the time. It was like 122 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: once I had it, I was like, oh, this is 123 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 4: something that like this I should direct to traditional publishing. 124 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 4: I intended to keep myself published works up and then 125 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 4: traditionally published under my real name because I was like, well, 126 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 4: I guess like the alter ego Olive is already very 127 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 4: well established, and so since I'm doing this for a 128 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 4: different age group, I guess I'll use my name. Although 129 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 4: I was just joking earlier that I would have happily 130 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 4: invented another pseudonym. I'm totally fine having like my private 131 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 4: life be one thing and then I just like put 132 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 4: on the olive hat. 133 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 3: It's like a persona. 134 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: But yeah, your Sasha Fearce moment. 135 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, yeah, I'm not sure which one is the 136 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 4: Sasha fears Every time I do this, my therapist is like, 137 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 4: please stop to associating, like she's not a different person 138 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 4: from you. But but actually to that point, is it 139 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 4: important that she is kind of is there a freedom 140 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 4: in that? Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's like 141 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 4: it's like the olive hat. It's something that I turn on, 142 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 4: like when we're doing stuff like this. I don't want 143 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 4: to think it's like disappearing into a brand or something. 144 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 4: But the all of the works and the themes that 145 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 4: I deal with when I'm being all of the are different. 146 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 4: There's a lot of political rage, there's a lot of 147 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 4: interpersonal conflict, gray morality, and then the stuff I write 148 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 4: as a leccine is more like what do I wish 149 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 4: I had known when I was a teenage girl. What 150 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: are the tools that I have in my toolbox now 151 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 4: that I'm theoretically a mature adult that I would have 152 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 4: wonted at this age. 153 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: Well, it's so interesting that you say that, because your 154 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: book dedications are written to versions of your past self, 155 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: and so what is the mission? 156 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 3: Yeah? 157 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 4: Definitely, so I was a teenager in the in the 158 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 4: two thousands, and you know, not to say that any 159 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 4: times are more or less misogynistic, but it was definitely 160 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 4: a different flavor of misogyny at the time. Like the 161 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 4: Ya protagonist was the not like other girls girl, and 162 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 4: you know, you'd get one quote unquote strong female character 163 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 4: and then a full cast of dynamic, diverse men. The goal, 164 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,559 Speaker 4: I think was to be like the most desirable woman 165 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 4: or the most in the guy's capable, the guy's girl, right, 166 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 4: the cool girl. 167 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, she looked great in a bikini, but also drank 168 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: so much beer. We didn't know how those two things were. 169 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 4: That character was very alive in that era, you know, 170 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 4: and we were all trying to be her and it 171 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 4: was such a waste of time. And I think, like 172 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 4: that's something that I didn't understand as a teenage girl 173 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 4: that of course there are going to be so many 174 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 4: women you don't get along with. And that's actually something 175 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 4: I like to write into my books, is like, sometimes 176 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 4: it's just like you and this girl are not going 177 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 4: to get along. And that's fine, because the spectrum of 178 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 4: what it is to be a woman and to grow 179 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 4: into womanhood is very different for everyone, and it should 180 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 4: appear different on the page. But anyway, so the just 181 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 4: the idea of if I could tell my past self, 182 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 4: power is not desirability. Power is not being appealing, especially 183 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 4: to men. Power is not making yourself palatable. Power is 184 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 4: you know, what you gain from the collective and the 185 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 4: relationships you have with other people, and that you are 186 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 4: stronger with these other women. This real fallacy of scarcity 187 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 4: that I think as women, we're taught that there are 188 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 4: just limited resources for us. There are only so many 189 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 4: women who can succeed, and there's only so many good 190 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 4: men in the world, and we're all competing for them, 191 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 4: you know, And that was just such a myth, and 192 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 4: so I try to like de escalate that myth and 193 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 4: fiction just to be like, you know what, you don't 194 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 4: have to believe that you don't have to buy into 195 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 4: that myth. There are resources for everyone. You don't have 196 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 4: to belong in a certain place or have to be 197 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 4: a certain way. 198 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: I actually think stories of fiction like that are equally 199 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: as powerful as nonfictional story. 200 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think, and especially at this age, because the 201 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 4: teen years are about trying to fit in for safety, 202 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 4: like for social safety. You understand how to fit in 203 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 4: with other people, and so it's not like the best 204 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 4: time to learn about individuality, but I think it is 205 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 4: a good time to be exposed to other perspectives and 206 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 4: to understand what it feels like to empathize with other 207 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 4: people who have different views, and like that's something specifically 208 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 4: for the teen years, that empathy is so important. 209 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: Alexien, you are exposing so many people to your own 210 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 2: experience with mental health, and I think a lot of 211 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 2: people can feel seen through the way that you've talked 212 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: about your bipolar disorder diagnosis. You've also mentioned that that 213 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: actually played a role in your evolution as an author. 214 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 2: How did that diagnosis help you discover your best brain? 215 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 4: The process of dropping out of law schools is a 216 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 4: really interesting one because it's related to my mental illness, 217 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 4: but not in the way that it sounds It's not 218 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 4: like I was so ill i had to leave. It's 219 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 4: more like, once I took steps toward being healthy, I 220 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 4: realize that a lot of the coping mechanisms I had 221 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 4: for getting myself through a life that I didn't love, 222 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 4: like I said, started to see them as just coping mechanisms. 223 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 4: And I think I started to really look at my 224 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 4: life and realize that I could be happier, that I 225 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 4: almost had a responsibility to be happier. At that point, 226 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 4: I had fallen in love and I was with the 227 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 4: man that I was going to marry and realized that, 228 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 4: you know, his happiness was also it was important to me, 229 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 4: and it was built into my happiness, and it was 230 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 4: like I could make choices that could lead me down 231 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 4: a different path than this. Like suddenly I can see 232 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 4: how many paths there are, and the path that I'm 233 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 4: on is not a good one. 234 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 3: Going down this path is going to get uglier for me. 235 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: Did you have a diagnosis as a kid or is 236 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: it something no? 237 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 4: Bipolar starts to show around like eighteen or something, And 238 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 4: certainly in my late teens, I knew that something was wrong, 239 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 4: and I think I was self medicating in different ways 240 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 4: and just in a way that I knew wasn't healthy, 241 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 4: but it wasn't important for me to be healthy. I 242 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 4: make a lot of jokes about how Viy in Twelfth 243 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 4: Night is an unlikable female character because I saw myself 244 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 4: as an unlikable female character. That I had the sense 245 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 4: that other people didn't understand me, or that my sincerity, 246 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 4: my desire to be authentic, was not coming across in 247 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 4: a way that other people understood or sympathized with, And 248 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 4: so I totally put on this whole like, fine, make 249 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 4: me your villain. 250 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 3: You think I'm a bitch, I'll be a bit. 251 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: You took on the persona yeah, and just. 252 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 4: Was quite isolated I think, Which is not to say 253 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 4: that I didn't have relationships. I just didn't take them 254 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 4: as seriously as I could. I never really thought I 255 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 4: deserved them. Sorry, I wasn't able to make my therapy 256 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 4: appointment today, so I feel like I'm having it right now. 257 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 3: I hope you guys are cool with that. 258 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: No, I think this is so important. 259 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: It's interesting that you brought up this idea that your 260 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 2: main character, Viola could be deemed as unlikable because in 261 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 2: the acknowledgments, you say if you're the kind of person 262 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: who feels angry all the time but doesn't feel like 263 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 2: you're allowed to be. I see you. Why was it 264 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 2: important for you to write that, to vocalize that. 265 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 4: This book is definitely about anger and about who's allowed 266 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 4: to feel it. How many women, how many young girls 267 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 4: become aware that their anger is not acceptable, that there 268 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 4: is no way to remain dignified in anger, and they're 269 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 4: not allowed to be undignified because the moment. 270 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 3: You do, you lose your credibility. 271 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 4: And so to have that, for Vie to be a 272 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 4: woman who's told to smile, who needs to be tamed, 273 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 4: things that I had heard growing up. And then also 274 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 4: to have Jack, who's based on my best friend who 275 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 4: I also met in high school, who's he's half black, 276 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 4: and so he has the cariacture of the angry black 277 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 4: man that he also, like, can't become angry, he cannot 278 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 4: engage his anger in a safe way, and for that 279 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 4: to be so hard because he's seventeen years old and 280 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 4: the book is based on it's a fictionalized version of 281 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 4: where I grew up, which was a predominantly white community 282 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 4: at the time, it's not really anymore, and that that 283 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 4: feeling of otherness that these two characters share, and little microaggressions, 284 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 4: these little things that like I can't put them into 285 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 4: words because they're not big enough on their own, and 286 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 4: so this feeling of I'm angry all the time, but 287 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 4: not about anything that I can say, because once you 288 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 4: start to like pick apart your feelings and rationalize them, 289 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 4: it's easy for people to argue with them. I think 290 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 4: this is the problem with a lot of politics and 291 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 4: a lot of just the sociolitical context. It's like, if 292 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 4: you really get into the details, someone will find a 293 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 4: way to delegitimize what you're saying. Yes, and so for 294 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 4: them to just be like, well, this is my life 295 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 4: and this is how I've come to deal with it. 296 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 4: One is like she makes herself a villain and he 297 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 4: is a total people pleaser, And you know, they see 298 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 4: each other and almost admire what the other person can 299 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 4: do that they feel they can't. 300 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 2: Alexi and we need to take a quick break, but 301 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: when we come back, we want to talk all about 302 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: Shakespeare and the power of adaptation. 303 00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere, okay, Alexin you call your latest book 304 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: a remix of the William Shakespeare play twelfth Night. I 305 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I grew up watching She's 306 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: the Man, which stars Amanda Bynes and Channing Tatum, who 307 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: was my first crush, and that movie was also based 308 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: on the William Shakespeare play. How did Shakespeare influence you? 309 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: And this book? 310 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 3: I love Shakespeare. 311 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 4: I read his works and I read Twelfth Night when 312 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 4: I was in high school and just loved it. And 313 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 4: I don't know why, it's just it's my favorite play. 314 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 4: I think the silliness, the absurdity that is captured by 315 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 4: Shakespeare is so brilliant to me. I really think of 316 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 4: Shakespeare as someone who, even though we treat him as 317 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 4: if he's very highbrow and the work is very you know, 318 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 4: it's English literature, but it was written for the masses, 319 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 4: you know. It took advantage of tropes that were as 320 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 4: popular then as they are now, and the emotions are 321 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 4: just so big and loud, and it's so well suited 322 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 4: to hi school. 323 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: It really is. 324 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 4: I feel the same way about Jane Austen too. I 325 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 4: feel that Jane Austen and William Shakespeare really understood the 326 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 4: absurdity of love and that just the silliness of being 327 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 4: alive and the pitfalls of humanity and how it's so 328 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 4: like beautiful and wonderful and stupid, Like there's a real 329 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 4: presence of how stupid love can be in Shakespeare's works. 330 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 4: That's like definitely not there. And Edith Wharton, like Edith 331 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 4: Wharton is no, Well. 332 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: How did you want to make this version unique to you? 333 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 4: I love a little absurd, like I like the flavor 334 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 4: of the absurd, and so that was definitely something I 335 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 4: wanted to bring into it, Like a lot of the 336 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 4: conversations that VI has with her twin brother Bash, like, 337 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 4: that's very like this real comedy of errors vibe that 338 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 4: that's to me, that's the Shakespearean aspect. That's like, here's 339 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 4: this really silly thing happening, and there's a lot of jokes. 340 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 4: And what I did not want to do was mimic 341 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 4: beat for beat the play. So so I did not 342 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 4: reread Twelfth Night before I wrote this. I was relying 343 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 4: on my memory of reading it in high school. And 344 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 4: I did not rewatch She's the Man either, But I 345 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 4: did rewatch ten things I Hate about you many times. 346 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: Well, that's the power of adaptation and authors like you 347 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 2: feeling empowered to put your own unique voice into such 348 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: a classic work like this, and I think there's no 349 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 2: better way for us to understand exactly how you infused 350 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 2: your voice into this than to have you read for us. 351 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: Would you set up the scene? 352 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 3: Yes? 353 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm excited to read this particular scene because it's 354 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 4: what I would have chosen to So I like that 355 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 4: we're in agreement. So this is in chapter three, and 356 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 4: basically VI is a huge gamer. She loves what is 357 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 4: essentially dungeons and Dragons, and she plays this game Twelfth 358 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 4: Night that is kind of, you know, my little play 359 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 4: on World of Warcraft and like the Witcher. So she 360 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 4: has just had an altercation with her group of friends 361 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 4: who are really not open to her ideas. It's a 362 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 4: group of mostly boys and her one female friend, and 363 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 4: they've had an argument. 364 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 3: She's in a really bad mood. 365 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 4: She's really upset that they don't her ideas, and so 366 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 4: she's going to do what is her favorite hobby, her 367 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 4: her soothing emotional support hobby, which is playing the MMORPG 368 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 4: Twelfth Night. I select my character and queue up for 369 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 4: combat mode. Boys seriously think the girls only want romance 370 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 4: and ball gowns and puppies, which is proof they don't 371 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 4: understand the first thing about actually being a girl. I 372 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 4: play this game because in the real world I'm stressed 373 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 4: or angry, and don't I have good reason to be. 374 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 4: When I first started playing mmoorpgs, I used to use 375 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 4: a headset. I don't anymore. You know why, because when 376 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 4: boys hear a girl's voice, they either come for you unnecessarily, 377 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 4: thinking you'll be easy prey, or they think everything you 378 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 4: say is flirting. Being nice to a geek while being 379 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 4: visibly female is the kiss of death. Do you know 380 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 4: how many times I've gotten vulgar messages or explicit pictures? 381 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 4: And if I say no? Do you know how many 382 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 4: times I've been called a bitch? Not that all guys 383 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 4: are awful, but the awful ones are in possible to 384 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 4: escape and certainly impossible to tell at first glance, Which 385 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 4: is why I play under the user named Cesario and 386 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 4: my character you guessed it modeled after Cesario. 387 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 3: On War of Thorns. 388 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 4: Tough, capable, muscular, sharp, the best blade in any given arena, 389 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 4: and the most tactical person in the field. Quads the 390 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 4: size of pillars, a man with everything the boys want 391 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 4: to be and have and do, and guess what everything 392 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,360 Speaker 4: I want too, because, believe it or not, not every 393 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 4: girl wants to be a princess, or a healer, or 394 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 4: some big chested daydream who only plays to lose. I 395 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 4: may like girly things on occasion, but I'm not just 396 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 4: here for people to look at. I don't want to 397 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 4: be considered beautiful without being seen as capable too. It's 398 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 4: not that I don't feel at home in my body 399 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 4: periods and awkward growth spurts aside. I don't have a 400 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 4: problem with the form I take, but if I look 401 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 4: like Cesario in real life, I'd have no reason not 402 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 4: to be quest Master for the game I designed. Nobody 403 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 4: would question my competency. No one would think they deserved 404 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 4: a date with me just because they did one nice thing. 405 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 4: Jack Orsino wouldn't be able to waltz around school like 406 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 4: he owns it just because everyone forgives him his every 407 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 4: personality flaw whenever he smiles or catches a ball. And 408 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 4: most of all, Antonio wouldn't be able to say things 409 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 4: like it's not personal whenever the boys gang up on me. 410 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 4: I wish it were personal. I wish they could hate 411 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 4: me for normal reasons, like my personality instead of just 412 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 4: looking at me and seeing long hair and boobs and 413 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 4: deciding that's enough to validate all of their presumptions. So 414 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 4: of course I'm angry. I'm angry all the time, from 415 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 4: the betrayals of my government to the hypocrisies of my peers. 416 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 4: It seems like the awfulness never rests, and neither can I. 417 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 4: No matter how many combat advantages I give Astria starscream, 418 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 4: She'll never be taken seriously. No matter how smart I 419 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 4: am or how hard I work, my acceptance is always conditional. 420 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 4: And it's not just me. I don't know how any 421 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 4: girl can exist in the world without being perpetually furious. 422 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 3: But once I. 423 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 4: Sign on as Cesario, my chat is instantly filled with 424 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 4: dudes who want me to queue up for their battle campaigns. 425 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 4: So in at least one place, I'm valuable. In at 426 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 4: least one world, I'm safe. 427 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 1: Wow, you captured girlhood, angst so well, all the things 428 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 1: I felt and didn't have words for in high school. 429 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I don't think I really understood why I 430 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 4: was so mad either. Like, it's nice to revisit this 431 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 4: with the words, hopefully the right words. 432 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: Is it healing for you? 433 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 3: It is? Yeah? 434 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 4: When I wrote my first ya, I was like, I'm good. 435 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,239 Speaker 4: I think I solved all my think I solved all 436 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 4: my inner child problems. But my mechanical romance, like by necessity, 437 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 4: the main character is very go with the flow, like 438 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 4: the whole thing. The whole plot kind of revolves around 439 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 4: her falling into robotics, which is not what I was 440 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 4: like at all. I was super hungry and very ambitious 441 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 4: and very disliked and so it was nice to write 442 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 4: a character like VI. And one question I get a 443 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 4: lot from promoting this book is like, like, how did 444 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 4: you feel about crafting this unlikable girl? Did you ever 445 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 4: feel like you had made her too unlikable? And it 446 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 4: was like no, I just didn't worry about this, so 447 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 4: it was very freein. 448 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 1: That's cool. Well, we're not the only ones with questions 449 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,480 Speaker 1: for you, Alexia. We're going to take a quick break, 450 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: but when we come back, we're finding out about Alexin's 451 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: future as an author. We're back with author Alexin Feral Fall. 452 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 5: Move. 453 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: Okay, we have some listener questions lined up for you, Alexin. 454 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 3: Oh Boy. 455 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: First up, a question about your younger self, which we 456 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: touched on earlier. 457 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 6: Actually, Hi, I'm a Manza, and I'm from Pennsylvania, and 458 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 6: what I love most about your writing is, in a 459 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 6: lot of ways, they make me feel us alone. I 460 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 6: actually heavily related to Jack as a character. When I 461 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 6: was a teenager, I also had an injury that made 462 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 6: me have to quit my sport, and similarly to Jack, 463 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 6: I felt very lost and very confused. And I think 464 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 6: this story and the way that it exists, I wish 465 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 6: I would have had it when I was younger, because 466 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 6: it might have saved me that emotional turmoil that I experienced. 467 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 6: I think being able to read it would have really 468 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 6: taught me that lesson of like it's okay to have 469 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 6: other paths and other experiences. And this all kind of 470 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 6: ties into my question of what's the biggest lessons you've 471 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 6: learned as an adult that you wish you would have 472 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 6: known when you were a teenager. 473 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 4: Well, thank you, Amanda, big question. Yeah, I have to 474 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,879 Speaker 4: sit with that for a second, So I did. I 475 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 4: mentioned that Jack's character is based on my best friend David, 476 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 4: who is like the perhaps second most important relationship in 477 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 4: my life, second only to my husband, who is the 478 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 4: other inspiration for Jack. Because my husband was a running 479 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,440 Speaker 4: back as well, and I don't think you can write 480 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 4: a truly feminist narrative if you don't also provide a 481 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 4: broad spectrum of masculinity and what masculine is can be. 482 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 4: The argument that VI and Antonia have is one that 483 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 4: I think is a really valid and very common one 484 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 4: that there are, like, you know, kind of these are 485 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 4: two sides of the coin in terms of how do 486 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 4: you exist as a woman knowing how other people are 487 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 4: going to see you that, if you're kind of forced 488 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 4: to see yourself through this lens of people who will 489 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,239 Speaker 4: never respect you, how do you address it? And you 490 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 4: can do what VI does and make everyone an enemy, 491 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 4: or you can do what Antonio does, and neither of 492 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,719 Speaker 4: these are the correct approach. But what Antonia does is 493 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 4: just like try to keep the peace right. And she 494 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 4: kind of falls into that category of something that I 495 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 4: felt was very common with my peers when I was 496 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 4: a teenage girl, of just like, well, if the boys 497 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 4: like you, then that'll make things. 498 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 3: Easier for you. 499 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 4: If they accept you, even if they accept you conditionally, 500 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 4: even if they accept you based on your looks or 501 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 4: the fact that you always agree with them, it's worth doing. 502 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 4: And so I think she that conflict between them is 503 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 4: important for multiple reasons. One because Antonia sees that she's 504 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 4: a little bit wrong in a way that makes I 505 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 4: think VI make a little more sense to her. And 506 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,160 Speaker 4: then also VI gets the experience of, like, you don't 507 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 4: have to just cut people off all the time. I 508 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 4: didn't want to soften VIY, but you don't always have 509 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 4: to act like people want you to fail, or that 510 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 4: you're performing for someone who doesn't believe you should succeed. 511 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 4: That there are some people in your life you can 512 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 4: have a disagreement with, but they still love you, they'll 513 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 4: still forgive you, and it's still a relationship worth having. 514 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 4: So there's a lot of layers to that particular argument. 515 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, I wish I had read this book when I 516 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 2: was a teenager. It would have been so helpful to me. 517 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 2: I just love that you're reminding women that we can 518 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 2: be beautiful and capable at the same time, and that 519 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 2: our rage is justified and that doesn't mean that we 520 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: are not good humans. I mean, rage is something that 521 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 2: can be a solution in a lot of ways, and 522 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: can it can also reveal our deepest desires. So I 523 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 2: just love all of these messages you packed into this book. 524 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 2: So meaty and it's so meaningful. And I think our 525 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: next listener also really connected with one of VI's struggles 526 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 2: in the book. So let's listen. 527 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 5: Hi, Alexiing, This is Julie from Florida. I love your 528 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 5: work and especially the characters you've written. In twelfth nine, 529 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 5: I felt like I could really relate to Jack as 530 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 5: he struggled to accept himself as a gamer. Ever since 531 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 5: I was a little kid, I've been that nerdy girl 532 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 5: who's way too into books and fandoms, and now more recently, 533 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 5: i'm that homeschool lady because I gave up my job 534 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 5: to educate my daughters. And I love both of these 535 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 5: things about myself, but I feel like when other people 536 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,359 Speaker 5: find out about them, they just see a stereotype. I 537 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 5: really appreciated how Viola was so confident in just being herself, 538 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 5: but even she had to play under a fake name 539 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 5: in order to not be hindered in the game. I'm 540 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 5: wondering if you've ever felt limited by other people's perceptions 541 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 5: of you or boxed in by your interests, tour abilities, 542 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 5: and if so, how did you overcome that and feel 543 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 5: free to just be yourself. 544 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: Wow? 545 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 4: Thank you, Julie. These are not softball questions. 546 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: We read through softball here, but we have very smart 547 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: women listen. 548 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. 549 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 4: One of the things I like about myself is that 550 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 4: I'm not really a judgmental person, and I appreciate that 551 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 4: people who love me feel that way about me too, 552 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 4: And so I think that, certainly I know what it's 553 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 4: like to feel that you are being judged or that 554 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 4: you do have been placed in a box by other people. 555 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 4: I think, ironically, this is happening to me most now 556 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 4: because some people view me as like a book talk author, 557 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 4: so I understand the feeling, and part of what I 558 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 4: wanted to write into this book is this sense that 559 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 4: you don't have to decide who you are. Certainly, I 560 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 4: did keep fan fiction a secret for a long time, 561 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 4: mostly because I didn't know how to talk about it. 562 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 4: And I also I didn't talk about mental illness, for example. 563 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 4: And I think the more I talk about it, the 564 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 4: more it becomes acceptable to talk about and not just 565 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 4: me obviously, but you know, I think the more open 566 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 4: we are about our experiences and the choices we make 567 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 4: and not equivocating and not making excuses for why we 568 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 4: love what we love, it just becomes more acceptable. 569 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 3: For other people to love those things. 570 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 4: And I mentioned earlier about the idea that real power 571 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 4: is something you have as a collective. 572 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 3: It's something that we share. 573 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 4: Then, you know, the more that we are open about 574 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 4: the passions that we have in following the things that 575 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 4: we love, the better things are for everyone. It means 576 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,719 Speaker 4: that one more person can feel like they're not alone. 577 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: Power is something we share. I really like that. Okay, 578 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: this last one, it's about Alexine's future as an author. 579 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 7: Hi, Lexine, This is Jordan from Pennsylvania. Your books really 580 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 7: reflect on many different issues in our society. Growing up, 581 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 7: I found a lot of fulfillment in community, in reading 582 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 7: and writing fan fiction, and I actually read some of 583 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 7: your fan fictions that you published as All of the Bleak. 584 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 7: I know that you recently have become traditionally published and 585 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 7: you have another book published under the name All of 586 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 7: the coming out in the fall. Have you found fulfillment 587 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 7: using your real name for publishing or do you think 588 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 7: that all of you Blake is always going to exist? 589 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: Great question? 590 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, So the separation is that all of you Blake 591 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 4: always writes for adults and Alexine, for Fulmuth, always writes 592 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 4: for teenagers. Because for me coming into publishing being a woman, 593 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 4: being a woman period, but also being a woman of color, 594 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 4: people look at me and they're like, oh, you write 595 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 4: for children, right. So the reason I make this separation 596 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 4: is is so that you know, when you pick up 597 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 4: an ol of You book, I wrote it with an 598 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 4: adult audience in mind. If you pick up on a 599 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 4: Lexine book, I wrote it with a teenage audience in mind. 600 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 4: And not everybody gets that, but it helps me to 601 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 4: know that, Like I don't have to say, oh, well, 602 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 4: sometimes I think it's just confusing to people. And for 603 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 4: me it's more like it's not like teens couldn't read 604 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 4: all of these stuff, or that adults couldn't read Elexceine stuff. 605 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 4: It's more like who did I hold in my head 606 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 4: as the audience? And yeah, just different themes. So all 607 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 4: of you will always exist. And so to me, it's 608 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,959 Speaker 4: having the public persona and being my private self. It 609 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 4: does feel like two separate things. If anything, I'm not 610 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 4: I'm not sure if I would do more as myself, 611 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 4: which is a weird thing to say. 612 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 3: I am always myself. 613 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 4: In case my therapist is listening, I promise you I'm 614 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 4: not associating but yeah, like I am always being I'm 615 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 4: always being authentic about when I talk about my life 616 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 4: or whatever. 617 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 3: It's just kind of who am I talking to? With 618 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 3: which hat on? 619 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: I really I don't mean to keep bringing it back, 620 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: but it really sounds like Sasha Fears like. 621 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 4: It's just like when you're on the stage, every different 622 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 4: here you go, yes, yeah, just the performance. 623 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: Seems like you've got the best of both worlds. At least. 624 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 4: I thank you, I do, It's true. 625 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being here today, Alexin. You 626 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: made the bright Side extra sunny and extra interesting. You're 627 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: giving me a lot to think about. 628 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, Thank you so much, Alexiin. 629 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me. It was so 630 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 3: nice to be here. 631 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 2: Alexin Ferrell Fallmouth is the author of Twelfth Night, the 632 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: Summer Ya pick for Reese's book Club. 633 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: That's it for today's show. Thank you to Amanda, Julie 634 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: and Jordan. You all had some really thoughtful questions. And 635 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: stay tuned because later this month we're talking with j 636 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 1: Courtney Sullivan, the author of the July pick for Reese's 637 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: book Club. It's called The Cliffs. And if you have 638 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: a question and you want to be featured on the show. 639 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: Send it to us at hello at the brightside dot com. 640 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 2: Tomorrow we're popping off with TV hosts and actor Julisa 641 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: Bermudez will be keikying all about this week's biggest pop 642 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 2: culture stories. You don't want to miss it. See you tomorrow, fam, 643 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: and keep looking on the bright side.