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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. We're in beautiful San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: California at the Castro Theater. Good, thank you, it's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Our biggest, our biggest show to date. Seriously today on

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Speaker 1: a Sunday afternoon. Who San Francisco Sketch Fest. All right,

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Speaker 1: So we're talking today everybody about a little something called

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Speaker 1: the Mall. And I'm not joking. Yeah, that's what I have.

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Speaker 1: So that's good. So we've been wanting to do something

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Speaker 1: on the mall for years now and years and years,

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Speaker 1: and we thought, well, what is San Francisco if not

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Speaker 1: the Mall? Right, they're gonna love this one, and I

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Speaker 1: guess we were wrong. Now, you guys will love it.

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Speaker 1: I promise. It's just like, um, like the Grass episode.

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Speaker 1: You may have been like, I'm not listening to that,

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Speaker 1: and then you finally ran out of episodes. Listen to

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Speaker 1: the Grass episode and you're like, that wasn't as bad

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Speaker 1: as I thought it was gonna be. This will be

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Speaker 1: similar to that experience, Okay, except the Grass episode is

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Speaker 1: free I promise we will give it our all. I

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Speaker 1: don't know why we're selling it. Like this is going

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Speaker 1: downhill so fast, it's great, okay, so hill shall we

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Speaker 1: get in the way back machine? Oh? Which is imaginary boo.

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Speaker 1: So when you think of shopping mall, you think of

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Speaker 1: the mall. Right, everybody knows what the mall is. If

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Speaker 1: there's somebody who doesn't know what the mall is, raise

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Speaker 1: your hand and whoever sitting next to that person, punch

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Speaker 1: them in the arm. Really hard to be, like, come on,

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Speaker 1: you know what the mall is. I assume San Francisco

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Speaker 1: has malls somewhere. Oh yeah, they've got I've never seen one.

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Speaker 1: They're probably out a bit. It's not like a mall

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the mission, is there, I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. Right, there's a few they pop up here there.

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Speaker 1: You guys will know, because I'll be like, so if

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Speaker 1: we're we're all on the way back machine and we're

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Speaker 1: going all the way back backpack back to ancient Rome

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Speaker 1: where the actual the first what you could consider a

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Speaker 1: shopping center appears. It was called Trajan's Market, and Trajan's

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Speaker 1: Market was built in something like one oh seven. I

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Speaker 1: think that's early. I think it's anchor store was Trajan's Horse.

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Speaker 1: That was okay, sorry, if I had a store back there,

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Speaker 1: that would have totally called it Trajan's Horse. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's it's known as the world's oldest shopping center for

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Speaker 1: good reason. Again, it was built in one oh seven

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Speaker 1: and right now it's in ruins. There's some guy who

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Speaker 1: sells um those little balls with the raccoon tails on

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Speaker 1: the end of them on a tray, but he's technically

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Speaker 1: outside of the mall, so it doesn't really count. So

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Speaker 1: the mall is closed. It has been for several millennia now.

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Speaker 1: But the oldest continually operated. Um what you would might

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Speaker 1: call an outdoor market or mall is the Grand Bazaar

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Speaker 1: with an A and three. A's actually two, No, there's three.

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Speaker 1: You've been drinking, Yeah, just not together be a Z

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Speaker 1: A R. Yeah, I guess if I'm not gonna checking

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Speaker 1: his math checks out. That's a joke from Fletch. If

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, I don't like alright, deep cut the

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Speaker 1: Grand Bizarre Istanbul between fourteen fifty five and fourteen sixty

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Speaker 1: one and is when that was built, and it is

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Speaker 1: still an operation today. About five thousand cupboard shops still

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Speaker 1: gets about a quarter million visitors a day, so it's

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Speaker 1: still rocking day. Yeah, yeah, a lot of folks. So

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Speaker 1: you've got what medieval market towns kind of started to

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Speaker 1: come later, um, seeports, all these things, these commercial districts

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Speaker 1: where people went to shop. They all had to kind

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Speaker 1: of be centered in an area together because people rode horses,

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Speaker 1: or they walked, or they were chased by other people whatever.

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Speaker 1: But you had to go and get all of your

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Speaker 1: shopping done at one place, right, And that's just kind

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Speaker 1: of a very ancient idea, and it's right, it's wonderful.

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Speaker 1: By the turn of the twentieth century here in the

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Speaker 1: u US we had something we still do. It hasn't

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Speaker 1: gone away. But pre mall, we had the department store.

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Speaker 1: And um, I think I even mentioned this on another show.

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Speaker 1: It didn't dawn on me, you know, like the simplest

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Speaker 1: words dawn on you late in life, like what it

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Speaker 1: really means. I just always said, Hey, a department store.

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Speaker 1: It really just occourad to me a couple of years ago, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: just store full of many departments. Never really thought about it.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever have those? It's kind of nice department stores, uh,

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Speaker 1: thirteen stories high in Chicago, the Marshall and Field Company, Marshall,

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Speaker 1: Field and Company. And then in Detroit there was one

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Speaker 1: called J. L. Hudson's that it was twenty five floors

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Speaker 1: of department store floors of retail space. And this thing

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Speaker 1: took up like a whole block. Yeah, and there's nineteen eleven.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of stuff. It is a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff. Uh. In eight though, if you back up

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Speaker 1: a little bit, the first sort of enclosed shopping center

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Speaker 1: that you might kind of consider a mall mall even

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Speaker 1: though we really don't, as you'll see, because it didn't

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Speaker 1: have an arcade, even though it is it's called the

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Speaker 1: Westminster Arcade, ironically, I didn't have an arcade. And Providence,

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island. Has anyone ever been to this place? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Have you really? Yes? I didn't know that you didn't

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Speaker 1: type in here I've been there. Yeah, all right, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know I needed to say that. Well, it was assumed. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's a pretty cool place. So if you look it

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Speaker 1: up online, it doesn't look like the mall that you

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Speaker 1: would consider the mall looks like sort of like a

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Speaker 1: Greek revival building, and uh, it's like, yeah, it's really nice.

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Speaker 1: It's got three it sort of looks like a train

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Speaker 1: station three floors, and recently they were going to demolish it,

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Speaker 1: but someone swooped in and built micro apartments. Now you

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Speaker 1: can live in there and they're really kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: And I was gonna explain again what a micro apartment was,

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Speaker 1: but I forgot where I am. So you all know,

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Speaker 1: isn't that like a dresser drawer? Yes, and you walk

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Speaker 1: through the little thing that's like, I love living in

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Speaker 1: thirty square feet and it's just some guy standing in

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Speaker 1: a broom cloth. Pretty much. Uh, screw the sup herbs.

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Speaker 1: Wait even well, even back further than this, Russia should

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Speaker 1: get its due right, even even before the even before

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Speaker 1: the the the Westminster Arcade, there is this thing called

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Speaker 1: the ghost Veeded Voor. And I looked at the pronunciation,

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Speaker 1: but I should qualify that I looked at the pronunciation

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Speaker 1: on the same site that I looked up the pronunciation

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Speaker 1: on Disha chain, which I called Dixia chain throughout the

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Speaker 1: entire Underground City episode. So to take that for what

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Speaker 1: it is, I was about to say, all our Asian friends,

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Speaker 1: let us know that was wrong. But really, everyone of

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Speaker 1: every race. Let us know that was wrong, Thank you dummies.

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Speaker 1: After World War two, things really kind of evolved with

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Speaker 1: the shopping center though, That's when things kind of started going.

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Speaker 1: And um, in nineteen fifty Seattle's Northgate Center was Uh,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like we say several times the first

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Speaker 1: thing we think of them all. I guess it was

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Speaker 1: just part of the evolution, right. South Dale was the

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Speaker 1: first real mall. Alright, so Southdale we're gonna pick up

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Speaker 1: with Southdale. Southdale was in Adena, Minnesota, and Dinah, thank

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Speaker 1: you live corrections very nice. Where were you when I

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Speaker 1: was saying Dixie a chance over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Well previous to that, boy, we're jumping all around. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This designer and really, um, the man who were gonna

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Speaker 1: either thank for the mall or blame for the mall,

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Speaker 1: depending on how you feel about malls is a gentleman

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Speaker 1: named Victor Gruin. Anyone want to correct me on that.

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Speaker 1: He's an Austrian architect and uh he designed Northlands Center

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Speaker 1: in Michigan. Is that correct? And it was? Northland Center

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Speaker 1: is in Southland, Michigan. Now looks so confusing, it's terrible.

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Speaker 1: It had a what was known in I said, anchor

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Speaker 1: store earlier. And this is what malls have. They have

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Speaker 1: these anchor stores which are still to this day mainly

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Speaker 1: department stores. And that anchor store was Hudson's Department Store,

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Speaker 1: but had about a hundred and ten other stores. But

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Speaker 1: it still wasn't a real mall mall because it wasn't

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Speaker 1: um as you'll see uh introverted correct, and it wasn't enclosed.

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Speaker 1: It was open air. Yeah, like you know when you

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Speaker 1: go to those outlet malls today where it's just all

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Speaker 1: you're walking around outside like an idiot. You know. This

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Speaker 1: is kind of like what what um Southfield was like

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Speaker 1: in Michigan. And that's what all shopping malls were like

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Speaker 1: up to that point. They weren't closed. It was ninety

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Speaker 1: six in a Dina, Minnesota when the first enclosed mall

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Speaker 1: like we think of it today came about. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I actually looked up the previous Northland They did close

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Speaker 1: that in in the seventies and it finally shuddered for

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Speaker 1: good a couple of years ago, and I found this

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Speaker 1: website that said twelve weirdest things left behind in the

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Speaker 1: Northland Center And it wasn't that exciting, but there was

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Speaker 1: one the group to tension room, and I started thinking,

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Speaker 1: holy crap, malls have jails. And I looked it up

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Speaker 1: and someone said, uh. I went to Yahoo answers like

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Speaker 1: where else do you go to get the real truth?

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Speaker 1: And the number one voted up answer said, it's not

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Speaker 1: a real cell. It's just a small dark room with

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Speaker 1: no windows, in a chair and a camera in it

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Speaker 1: that you that you're not allowed to leave. It's like

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Speaker 1: and this one that's a department basically. This one had

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Speaker 1: chains on this benches and I was like, no, that's

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Speaker 1: a al cell. So I saw that too. There was

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Speaker 1: like a target cart under a spotlight. I think. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was beautiful. Yeah, it was very arty, haunting.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you, lady, alright. So jumping back forward again

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Speaker 1: to Minneapolis. Outside of Minneapolis, is it aDNA Southdale twenty

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Speaker 1: million bucks? The anchor store was Donaldson's and Dayton's, right,

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Speaker 1: who can forget Donaldson's? I did, okay, And Dayton's actually

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Speaker 1: commissioned this mall to be built because they were building

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Speaker 1: a new outpost in the suburbs of Minneapolis. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't just by coincidence that Diana was ten miles away

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Speaker 1: from downtown Minneapolis because again this is nineteen fifty six,

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Speaker 1: so during the Cold War, and that's actually right outside

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Speaker 1: the eight mile blast radius of atomic bomb were it

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Speaker 1: to be dropped on Minneapolis, because of course that's what

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Speaker 1: the Rooskys were thinking, We're going from Minneapolis first. But

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Speaker 1: they've built a mall outside of the blast radius, so

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll just give up. So the original idea

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Speaker 1: for them all from Victor Gruen was to um, he

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Speaker 1: wanted to kind you know how they have these mixed

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Speaker 1: use centers. Now, he had this idea way back then

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Speaker 1: and he wanted people to live there and uh kind

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Speaker 1: of congregate there. And we'll get a little more to

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Speaker 1: this later, but it sort of ended up just being

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Speaker 1: a shopping mall, to his disappointment. But he modeled it

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Speaker 1: on Northgate in Seattle and sort of the big idea

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Speaker 1: was that you go to these department stores because that's

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Speaker 1: what people were used to. But how do you get

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Speaker 1: them to these other stores? Was the big question, Right,

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Speaker 1: how do you get them shopping? Oh at the mall? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like ice, they're there because people went to department store.

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Speaker 1: So if you put a department store out in the suburbs,

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Speaker 1: they'll go to the department store. They're like, I thought

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to take a left. Now I'm taking

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Speaker 1: the right. I'm at the department store. Who cares. Right.

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Speaker 1: The problem is is if you put Hunter and ten

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Speaker 1: other stores coming off of that department store, they just

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Speaker 1: go to the department store and leave. Not good, right

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Speaker 1: if you're one of these other stores. So what Northgate

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Speaker 1: figured out, and what is mind numbingly obvious but really works,

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Speaker 1: is you just take this department store, put another department store,

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Speaker 1: and then put the shops in between them, and then

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Speaker 1: the people take a right, but they should take a left.

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Speaker 1: But they're fine, we're going to the department store. Oh

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Speaker 1: there's another department store. Well, i'll just walk past this.

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Speaker 1: Maybe i'll buy that. We'll buy a little bit of this. Sure,

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Speaker 1: i'll take a feather boa And then they walk into

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Speaker 1: the other department store and and consumerism is saved. That's right.

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Speaker 1: It was revolutionary at the time. So he built he

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Speaker 1: was commissioned at least by Dayton's department store to build

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Speaker 1: this uh kind of advanced shopping center. Didn't call them

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Speaker 1: malls at the time. They called him advanced shopping centers

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Speaker 1: and that's so high tech. He actually at its space

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Speaker 1: for a competitor at the other end because he had

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Speaker 1: this idea like how to keep people there? And I

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Speaker 1: don't know how he talked Dayton's into it. Were like wait, wait, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like hold on a second, no, no, we're paying you

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Speaker 1: to do this, and you want to put a competitor's

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Speaker 1: store in there. He's like, yeah, it'll work, trust me.

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Speaker 1: So a few minutes ago I mentioned that it was introverted.

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Speaker 1: My uncle's still texting me, um, still looking for parking,

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Speaker 1: just circling the castro at this point. Uh so we

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Speaker 1: mentioned introverted and extroverted malls previous to this. We're outdoor,

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Speaker 1: and like we said, they were extroverted. So in other words,

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Speaker 1: you walk the perimeter and the stores faced the outside

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Speaker 1: and they had doors on them that you would walk

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Speaker 1: into if you wanted to shop. So he had this

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Speaker 1: idea like, wait, let's reverse all that. Let's turn it

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Speaker 1: all inside. Where you walk into this huge building. You

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Speaker 1: got these two stores on both ends, and there are

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Speaker 1: no doors. They might have a gate they lower at night,

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Speaker 1: but it's just open, like pool will just walk through

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Speaker 1: this little concourse and all the stores are wide open

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Speaker 1: for everyone's air conditioned. It's heated, not at the same time,

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Speaker 1: at appropriate times, especially in a place like Minneapolis, it's

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Speaker 1: probably a nice place to go in the wintertime. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a big deal, and he introverted him. Is

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Speaker 1: what they're called right where they look in on themselves

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Speaker 1: and they're enclosed as well. So for the first time ever,

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Speaker 1: you could just walk around this beautiful place with trees

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Speaker 1: and he put like a twenty foot bird cage, and

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Speaker 1: there were goldfish ponds and all this stuff. And it

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Speaker 1: would be the middle of winter and you could walk

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Speaker 1: around in short sleeves and be like, I live in

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Speaker 1: a Dina, not a dina. Uh. The other thing he

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Speaker 1: kind of nailed right out of the gate was um.

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Speaker 1: Previous to this, shopping malls were usually um or shopping

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Speaker 1: centers are on one floor and they were spread out

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Speaker 1: over this big, broad area and you had to enter

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Speaker 1: from the outside and walk around the cold and it

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Speaker 1: was all this one big, single level. And he said,

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Speaker 1: how about this, how about we stack it, because this

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Speaker 1: is a genius. Everyone put a store on one end,

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Speaker 1: put a store on the other end. You stack him

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Speaker 1: on top of each other. You put escalators on both sides.

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Speaker 1: You park in this side, you go into your department store,

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Speaker 1: you walk down on the first level to get to

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Speaker 1: the other department store, you get down the escalator, and

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Speaker 1: then you walk back on the other level to get

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Speaker 1: to your car, and you've seen every store and it

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Speaker 1: was genius. It was retailed genius, exactly pretty amazing. And

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Speaker 1: again we take this for granted now, but at the

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Speaker 1: time everyone's like, I never thought of that. Well, the

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Speaker 1: point that we take this for granted, like all of

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Speaker 1: this sounds brain dead. All of this came essentially from

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Speaker 1: this one guy, this dude named Victor Grewitt, who was

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Speaker 1: kind of like a high artsy Fartsia society type from

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Speaker 1: Austria who fled the Nazis in and was a self

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Speaker 1: taught architect right who just started designing them all. And

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Speaker 1: he invented the mall, and he got basically everything right

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Speaker 1: right out of the gate, actually amazing. The MSS has

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Speaker 1: a really great quote about him, They say that, um,

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Speaker 1: he it was as if Orville and Wilbur Wright invented

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Speaker 1: not just manned flight but also tray tables and duty

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Speaker 1: free service. Not bad. The other thing he got right

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Speaker 1: right out of the gate was these uh low balconies.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you ever go into them all, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're on that top floor, you can look down

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Speaker 1: and say, I gotta go into Chess King and get

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Speaker 1: some parachute pants. Or if you're down on the bottom floor,

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Speaker 1: you can look up and you can see, I gotta

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Speaker 1: go to Merry Go Around and check out the ladies.

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Speaker 1: Merry Go Around. Man, that takes me back. There will

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Speaker 1: be a bit of nostalgia peppered in here and there. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I don't even think I put Merry Go Around. I

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Speaker 1: put Camelot music is what I have in my Camelot

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Speaker 1: music everyone. And the joke I have was the Duran

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Speaker 1: Duran Kiss single. Oh my God, the Kiss single. It's

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Speaker 1: like I just ate a whole bud of member berries

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Speaker 1: or something of what member berries. I don't know. It's

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Speaker 1: a yeah, well three other people love that joke. So

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Speaker 1: more than seventy five thousand people. Seventy five thousand people

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Speaker 1: turned out on the grand opening day of South Dale Mall,

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Speaker 1: and not just local press, Life Magazine, Time Magazine, UH,

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Speaker 1: New York Times, Business Week, Newsweek. They all came out

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Speaker 1: and said things like it's the splashiest center in the

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Speaker 1: US as a goldfish pond, birds art, ten acres of

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Speaker 1: stores and all under one Minnesota roof. It's a pleasure

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Speaker 1: dome with parking, said Time magazine. But one guy got

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Speaker 1: it right. One guy said south Dale has become an

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Speaker 1: integral part of the American Way, and this is the

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Speaker 1: first mall. And some journalist points Witt and says, this

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Speaker 1: is how things are from now on. And this is

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Speaker 1: the page that is very hard for me to read because,

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Speaker 1: as you can see, I crumpled it up. Well, hold on,

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Speaker 1: so if we're going to release this, we should probably

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Speaker 1: take an a break. Huh oh yeah, sure, Okay, you're ready,

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Speaker 1: so we'll be right back. And we're back, all right.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you thought of that. You guys get to

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Speaker 1: see how the sausage. So, as I was saying before

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Speaker 1: the break, I don't know if you can see it there,

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Speaker 1: but this is crumpled up and very hard to read.

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Speaker 1: Because Josh sent a new version and I in the

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Speaker 1: hotel room, I said, great, I printed it out. I

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Speaker 1: crumpled up the wrong one, m through it away and

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Speaker 1: right before I came, I was searching through the trash

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Speaker 1: and uh, here it is. It's not the bad actually,

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Speaker 1: so we're gonna entitle this next section the Golden Age

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Speaker 1: of the mall. That it wouldn't be a live show

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Speaker 1: if we didn't have a golden age of skyjacking, Golden

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Speaker 1: age of pr golden age of grave robbing, and now

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Speaker 1: the golden age of the mall. It was about to

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Speaker 1: say golden Age of Brodney Dangerfield, but it was all

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Speaker 1: golden age for that guy. So the mall had its

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Speaker 1: golden age. Between nineteen fifty six and two thousand, five

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Speaker 1: fifteen hundred malls America were built, possibly two thousand, possibly

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Speaker 1: three thousand, what no one knows. They just stopped counting

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Speaker 1: pretty much. They're like, forget it will stay seven thousand.

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Speaker 1: Who cares? Million? A million malls were built between that

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Speaker 1: time in the US. So there's a woman named Lisa

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Speaker 1: Sharon who wrote a book called America The Mall Colon,

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Speaker 1: because you book has to have a colon if you're smart.

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Speaker 1: The cultural role of retail utopia. And she said, for

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Speaker 1: the children's seventies, eighties, and nineties, the shopping mall was

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Speaker 1: the place to be, space where we defined as our own.

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Speaker 1: The mall taught us how to fit in, how to

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Speaker 1: be a consumer ultimately, how to be an American? Uh So,

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Speaker 1: who I mean, we don't You don't have to say

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Speaker 1: how old you are. But if if you grew up

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Speaker 1: in sort of the seventies and the eighties, you know

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Speaker 1: that the mall and into the nineties, of course, the

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Speaker 1: shopping mall was like it's different than it is today.

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Speaker 1: Like families used to go to the mall for the day.

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Speaker 1: You pick a Saturday, and you all pile in the car,

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Speaker 1: you go to the mall. You maybe go see a movie,

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Speaker 1: the kids would go to the arcade. Mom and dad

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Speaker 1: would do some shopping, and you would literally spend like

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Speaker 1: six and eight hours as a family outing at a mall. Right,

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Speaker 1: pretty unbelievable to think about that. Now you gather around

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Speaker 1: the laptop and go onto Amazon dot com. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I'll sit around and stare at your phones and ignore it.

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Speaker 1: You say, yes, I would like to get into for

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Speaker 1: men to pickles. I could do some fermentation weights. Thanks

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00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 1: for suggesting that Amazon. Interesting. You just changed my life.

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Speaker 1: But it was a big deal. You would spend family

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Speaker 1: day at the mall. And uh in the eighties, it

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Speaker 1: was just it was a part of America as anything else. Um,

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Speaker 1: there were uh restaurants in the food court at the

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Speaker 1: mall that didn't exist outside of the mall. They were

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Speaker 1: born in the mall, like Cinnabon. Someone gasped, that's it,

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Speaker 1: we can go home now. We're ever working toward as

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Speaker 1: a gasp from somebody. Orange Julius that was another one.

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Speaker 1: And Express was only in malls for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And apparently Sparrow. Everyone knows of Samorrow right. It was

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Speaker 1: so tied to malls that when Sabarrow filed for bankruptcy

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Speaker 1: in two fourteen, they cited unprecedented decline in mall traffic

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Speaker 1: in their filing. There's like, no one likes the mall anymore.

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Speaker 1: We're tomorrow, We're dead. Word good Chick fil A too.

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Speaker 1: You guys don't have Chick fil A here, do you? Oh?

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Speaker 1: You do? Long before we knew the chicken. This is

378
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: back when everyone just thought it was delicious and juicy

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Speaker 1: and crispy, not filled with homophobia. But no, no, they've

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00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: they've since walked it back. So it's all fine. We're

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Speaker 1: just not open on Sundays. Uh Chick fil A would

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Speaker 1: used to only be in the mall. I think there

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Speaker 1: was one original chick fil A store in Georgia. I

384
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Speaker 1: think that's where it was born. But aside from that,

385
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: it was only in the mall. And I remember, uh

386
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Speaker 1: going to the mall. Remember when malls used and they

387
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Speaker 1: may still do this. I don't go to malls. There's

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Speaker 1: on Amazon dot com. Um. Malls used to have events

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Speaker 1: like a world record Sunday, I Scream Sunday or something

390
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Speaker 1: to get people there. I went to Chick fil A

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Speaker 1: when I was about ten at North Lake Mall, which

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Speaker 1: was my mall, because they had the world's largest cup

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Speaker 1: of lemonade on a Saturday afternoon. My mom took me

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00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 1: and I drank from that spigot among the thousands of

395
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Speaker 1: other people, and it was not even that impressive, Like

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Speaker 1: I thought it was giant, but now that I'm adult,

397
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: it was probably like eight ft high. Right now it

398
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: was sixty four ounces. But they were just the first

399
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: ones to try, so whatever they did was the world's

400
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 1: biggest cup of lemon eight. That was a mall event

401
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Speaker 1: that I went to. What was your mall? I had

402
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Speaker 1: to because we moved a very formative time in my life.

403
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Speaker 1: I had Southwick Mall, Untiledo Noah, and then I had

404
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Speaker 1: a town Center Mall in Atlanta. No, okay, you guys

405
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: haven't been to Town Center Mall. Believe me, I would

406
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: recognize you. No, no, not necessarily. No, I would not

407
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Speaker 1: call myself a mall rat because I wasn't. I didn't

408
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: like sell or consume drugs at the mall, so it

409
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: wasn't a mall rat. I was like, they're legitimately like

410
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 1: I was there to visit the Led Zeppelin box set

411
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,479
Speaker 1: on cassette that I was saving up to buy, just

412
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: it was still there, you know, Or like I would

413
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: go to Spencer's and like put my hand on the

414
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 1: plasma ball. Let's be like, yeah, Spencer Gifts. Well I

415
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: say that like you're from here. I know that like

416
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 1: eight people are from San Francisco in this room, you know,

417
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 1: Spencer Gifts. Okay, very titilating place for a young Bathos

418
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 1: because because there's the one section, you know what I'm

419
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: talking about, plus the posters too. Yeah, it's funny now

420
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: as an adult, the one section, I just thought it

421
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: was like, oh man, and then there are some children

422
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: here just you don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe

423
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: maybe she's used pick I don't know how to do that.

424
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: It was but for a young Baptist kid, I was

425
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: just like I would I would. I would walk by

426
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: it and I would pretend like I'm looking at other

427
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: things and just look in that section to see what

428
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: was in it. I remember, and now it's just so

429
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: dumb the stuff that was in that section. Yeah, it's

430
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: like a stud collar. It's like who cares. By the time,

431
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: you're like, I got it checking me out yesterday was

432
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,479
Speaker 1: wearing one and nothing else. Maybe a condom with bells,

433
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: and that's it so silly. I remember walking past Victoria's

434
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: Secret like I was not doing that on purpose, but

435
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: just kind of like like I could. Actually I trained

436
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: my right eye to go like I took a lot

437
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 1: of exercise, a lot of work, a lot of muscle relaxers,

438
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: but I got a town path. Oh that's good. And

439
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: that was pretty cell phone when you couldn't fake like

440
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 1: you were doing something else. Good work. That's very impressive.

441
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,680
Speaker 1: You trained it back and everything I did now I

442
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: can't do it anymore or else I show you guys.

443
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: I don't know where I was. I got so side

444
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: tracked my North Lake mall. Oh and the gold mine

445
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: was my arcade at the mall wonderful. You get like

446
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: twenty tokens for a dollar on a Wednesday, and now

447
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: games cost like a dollar fifty to play one game.

448
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: Ah progress, That's what else did they have back in

449
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: those days? You made a list Chess King, of course,

450
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: Marry go Around. I mentioned contempo casuals. Ladies knew this

451
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: section was all into that county seat remember county seat.

452
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: That is a deep cut. Or you could go get

453
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 1: gene blue. It was like when the gap used to

454
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: be like sweatshirts and blue jeans before they rebranded. You

455
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: should go back to that. Merry go Around. Can't want music?

456
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: What else? Oh? Well, bookstores? You could just say bookstore

457
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: and that would be novel. Be Dalton Books. I think

458
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: I consumed every single volume of truly tasteless jokes and

459
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: those without buying a single one. Man, I remember those, God,

460
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: those are great. Pet Doctor the cruelest, cutest store of

461
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: all time, Remember like the Mall Pet Store. It was

462
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: like this, hamps are so cute and then it died

463
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: like an hour later from Neglay. It just shuffle it

464
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: out and put a new one in. There's a trap door. Nice.

465
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: John Hodgeman to hate this show. Dripping with nostalgia. He's

466
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: here in this town. He refused to come because he knew,

467
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: you kidding, he'd already be up here. Like the nostalgia's toxic.

468
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: The mall became a prominent fixture in movies of the day,

469
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: of course, the Sherman Oaks Galleria and California, which is

470
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: where we are, yea California here. That was the mall

471
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: in Fast Times a Ridgemont High one of the great

472
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: mall movies, and full mall movie, but it's short. It

473
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: also appeared prominently in Commando, where on a sports nigger

474
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: beats up like a ton of guys at the mall. Yeah,

475
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: same mall. Uh. And I of the comment you mentioned, anyone.

476
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: I remember seeing that as a kid and thinking, because

477
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: you know that here if you haven't seen the movie,

478
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: this comment comes and destroys like everyone at night. Yeah,

479
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: and everyone has these comment parties to watch the comment,

480
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: but it kills everybody except for the two really hot

481
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: teenage girls that didn't watch the comment, and then a

482
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: few other people. And what do they do. They go

483
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: to the mall shop because it's abandoned. And I remember

484
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: being a kid thinking that would be the dopest thing

485
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: ever to just go in an empty mall and it's

486
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 1: all yours order order to live at Restoration Hardware, to

487
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: run into Spencer Gifts into that section. Yeah, just like

488
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: pass out from pleasure. That's what a way did you

489
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: and you missed your chance? You could be walking around

490
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: the castro right right kind of look out and there's

491
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: a creepy guy with a wandering eye staring at me

492
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: and who knew? Who knew? Uh? What else? The Blues

493
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: Brothers had a very famous mall scene. Yeah, they went

494
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: through the Dixie Square Mall, sorry the Square mall that

495
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: where they were like, this place has got everything. Uh,

496
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: and maybe one of the most famous mall parking lots

497
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 1: of all time the Twin Pines Mall from Back to

498
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: the Future, which was actually the Quinte Heels mall. Heels

499
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: that was possibly appropriate maybe, which I don't even know

500
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: where that is. I mean, it's in l A obviously,

501
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure it's a It's in City of Industry,

502
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: which is name for a town everybody you know, it's

503
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: outside of l A. I looked it up. And of

504
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: course mall rats, which we don't need to talk about

505
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: too much. Because it was a little really that was

506
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: Kevin Smith. Here's a really high voice. N Smith. You

507
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: can't leave out moon Unit Zappa dude, Oh well, yeah,

508
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: of course. Valley Girl. Yeah, she had a hit single,

509
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: Valley Girl, and her father, Frank Zappa hated the Valley

510
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: Girls right, and while it kind of blew up in

511
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: his face when he released a song with his daughter

512
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: about how stupid Valley Girls were, that it actually popularized

513
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: Valley Girls and made him cool in America. So eat that,

514
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: Frank Zappa. Uh, he's past. That's eat that. In Musical Heaven,

515
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: so um, alls started to really grow um, not only

516
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: in popularity but in size, to the point, as Josh says,

517
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: of sheer absurdity. Uh in Canada, because they have malls too,

518
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: I should say, uh yeah, yeah, we have some Canadians here,

519
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: and yet no one from Toledo. The West Edmonton mall

520
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: really all right opened and no one from Toledo, anyone

521
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: from Elm Street in Edmonton. Yeah, that's what I thought.

522
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: It was open. Two had an ice skating rink, It

523
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: had sea lions in a pool boo, and an indoor

524
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: bungee jump. It's a tempt fate for shoppers right over

525
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: the Sea Lions. It's just scared than terrible. Oh my god.

526
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: Sea Lions hate being jumped over, and the developers knew

527
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: it too. And of course the Mall of America, perhaps

528
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: the most famous mall in Minnesota. Uh, they were gonna

529
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: build a roller coaster there when they decided to build

530
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: three roller coasters there. I've never been there. Have you

531
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: been there in Mall of America? Anyone been there? Oh? Wow?

532
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: All right? Huge? Right it's outside of a Dina, so

533
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: actually no, really, it's like seven miles from a Dina.

534
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: Should we go to the mall Walkers? Yea. This may

535
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: be one of my favorite sections of any show we've

536
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: ever done, because I love Mall Walkers. I didn't know

537
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: it existed until I worked at them all I worked,

538
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: I think I mentioned on the show. I worked at

539
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: the Gap for a month in college over Christmas break

540
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: and I was a champion folder and I still have

541
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: those skills today. Were you really? You know? I actually

542
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: quit working in the Gap is because they got mad

543
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't recommend socks and belts as they checked out,

544
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 1: and I said, I think if they wanted socks and belts,

545
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: they would get socks and belts. And my manager said,

546
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if the gap is right

547
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: for you, and I think you might be right. I

548
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 1: took off my little pen and I handed it to him,

549
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: and me and my mock turtleneck strolled right on that

550
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,239
Speaker 1: and that was it. That's the only retail job I've

551
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: ever I did. But anyway, a long way of getting

552
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: to mall walkers. I remember showing up for work one

553
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: morning to open and there were these old people walking

554
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: around and I thought, does anyone know that they're in

555
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: here because the mall is not open yet? And someone said, yeah,

556
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: they they live in uh and Merry go round and

557
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: come out at night from the giant pants they just

558
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: screwed out of the legs. But they explained to me

559
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: what a mall walker was, and even at a young age,

560
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: I was like, that's wonderful. It warmed my heart and

561
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: it became a legit, real American thing. It did. Apparently

562
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: the CDC did a report on this, because if you

563
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: can't study gun violence, might as well study mall walking.

564
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: And in two thousand and fifteen they said, uh, malls

565
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: are right behind neighborhoods for popularity of walking they just

566
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: went to bed after that, but they did a little

567
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: more digging and they said the reason people of malls

568
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: is because there's restrooms, water fountains, benches, and level surfaces.

569
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: And this is one of my favorite quotes from any

570
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: CDC report ever. They said that quote, the latest fashionable

571
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: workout attire is not a requisite for mall walking, And

572
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 1: no truer words have ever been spoken. You won't find

573
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: any yoga pants on the mall walkers. As a matter

574
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: of fact, I would imagine you would be ostracized if

575
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: you did just kind of gussy, if like you're putting

576
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: on airs or something. You know, they don't play that

577
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: in a dina. Yeah. Actually, you know what mall walker's

578
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: where those uh those workout pants that that look like

579
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,359
Speaker 1: lotted up paper. You know what I'm talking about. It's

580
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: like this wrinkly, weird material. I don't even know what

581
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: it's made of. Fish skin? What? Yes, all right, we're

582
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 1: gonna talk about all right, we'll talk about it later.

583
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: Let's hang on to this page to remind us to

584
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: talk about it. Well, that's fish skin, but you mean

585
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: clothing that's totally weird, but it makes sense in a way.

586
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: Uh So, these these generally elderly folks are walking around malls.

587
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: And at the Mall of America, they have a PR

588
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: coordinator there named Tara Neebling, and she says, we love

589
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: our wall uh wall markers, mall walkers. They're very special

590
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: to us, and they even have a program. They're so adorable.

591
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,439
Speaker 1: But they give them little swipe cards. It keeps track.

592
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: It's sort of like a fitbit, but they can't wear

593
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: a fitbit, I guess because I don't even know why.

594
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: They can't figure it out or something that's very agist

595
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: and is going to be against the wall for that

596
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: joke later on. But they've given these little swipe cards

597
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: that lets them track how much they're walking and how

598
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,479
Speaker 1: much exercise they're getting. They have monthly breakfast meetings where

599
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: they have health experts come in and talk about we

600
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 1: should all go there right now. And all this is

601
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: in exchange for a fifteen dollar annual fee if you

602
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: want to officially be a member. But don't feel bad, sir,

603
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,479
Speaker 1: because like I was, like, what a rip? He said.

604
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: They welcome unofficial mall walkers a k a. The old

605
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: dudes who refused to pay the fifteen dollars a k

606
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: a society's leeches. That would be me. I'm not paying

607
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: fifty dollars. That's mean about ten or fifteen years. Anyway,

608
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,959
Speaker 1: I think it's adorable. Uh. And the whole thing about

609
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: mall walkers is they it was a problem at first

610
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: because they didn't used to open malls to allow this.

611
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 1: They just came to the mall when it was open

612
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: and they would walk around. And they said that there

613
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: was a quote in here they said they thought it

614
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: would upset the regular shoppers to have them just exercising

615
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: among them. And they're like, you know, what do we do?

616
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: We can't kill them. They got our they have our

617
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: arms behind our backs, like they really have us over

618
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: a barrel. You can't kill them, can we? We could

619
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: wait for them to die. And I guess this is

620
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: that they're really healthy. Owners gets together once a year,

621
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: capes red satin inside black on, you know. So they

622
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: decided to open them all just for them to walk

623
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: around before the store is open, which is just adorable,

624
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 1: I think. And speaking of the Mall of America, Douglas Copeland,

625
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if any of you have read Generation X.

626
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: It's a really great book, but he basically coined the name.

627
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: Apparently no one's read it. Douglas Copeland, Um, wow, this

628
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: really would work so much better if you guys knew

629
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,479
Speaker 1: what what Generation X was. Yeah, we wrote it. So

630
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: he wrote the book literally Generation X, and like just

631
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,799
Speaker 1: set the tone for the whole thing. And he was

632
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 1: actually at the opening of Mall of America on August

633
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: and he was up there on stage with the local

634
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: radio affiliate, and he said that everybody was walking by

635
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,040
Speaker 1: with what he called country fair face, where they were

636
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: like google eyed and eating ice cream, couldn't believe this mall.

637
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: It was the most amazing thing they've ever seen. And

638
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: he said that the interviewer just assumed he was going

639
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: to be like a lacquer ironic wise ass and said,

640
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: you know, I bet you think this whole mall is

641
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: very hokey and trashy. And Douglas Copeland said, actually not

642
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: at all, Chuck, where should I start here? Oh? Oh, sorry,

643
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: I can finish my part. And then the radio guy

644
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: was like, what, Chuck, and he said, quote, I mean

645
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: that I feel like I'm in another era that we

646
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: thought had vanished, but it really hasn't, not yet. I

647
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: think we might one day look back on photos of

648
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: today and think to ourselves. You know, those people were

649
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: living in golden times and they didn't even know it.

650
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: Communism was dead, the economy was good, and the future

651
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: with all of its accompanying technologies, hadn't crush society's mojo

652
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: like a bug and drop the mic. And they said, well,

653
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: that's really not good for the mic, and we're please anymore.

654
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: And he goes on to say it's true. He says

655
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: that technology hadn't hallowed up the middle class and turned

656
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: us all into like laptop click junk. He's he didn't

657
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: say that there were no He said there were no

658
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: new boogeymen hiding in the closet. He said, we may

659
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: look at the nineties as the last good decade. And

660
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: all of this came to him at the mall, so

661
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: they didn't get their snarky quote after all, which is

662
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: kind of ironic in a way. You know, he really

663
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: did zing him. But it was a medazine. So if

664
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 1: you want to talk to the psychology of malls, we

665
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 1: need to go back to Victor Gruen and um he

666
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: has a quote where he said shoppers will be so

667
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 1: bedazzled by the store surroundings they will be drawn unconsciously

668
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: continually to shop, and um, this kind of goes against

669
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: his ethos. He he wasn't some big He wasn't like

670
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 1: the pr guy. I can't I think of his name.

671
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 1: We did that like twelve times. He wasn't like Ed Burney's.

672
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 1: He didn't have this thing where he was like, yes,

673
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 1: we need to get people to shop. But he was

674
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,439
Speaker 1: commissioned to do so, and he did a good job.

675
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: He thought the mall would be a little bit more

676
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: like a sort of like they had in Europe, like

677
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: a public meeting space, and that's why he built these

678
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: atriums in the middle, the skylights in the fountain, and

679
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: he thought people would go there and hang out and

680
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: talk politics and maybe even uh stand up and like

681
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: speak about things publicly to people, because that's what happens

682
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: at the mall. Right, instead of the developers are like,

683
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: you go over there, you're done, you did your damage, right,

684
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: We're actually gonna go so far as to name a

685
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: psychological effect after you, something called the grew In transfer,

686
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: which is where you walk into the mall and you're like,

687
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: I'm going to buy a Hello, Kitty pen and that

688
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: is it, and you get through the mall and you're like,

689
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: oh my god, there's a water fountain, Oh my god,

690
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: there's old people walking around. There's this amazing stuff going

691
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: on here at the mall. I forgot what I was

692
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: going to get, and now I have a compulsion to

693
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 1: get an orange Julius with drugs in it. And you

694
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: forget what you're doing, and all of a sudden you're

695
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: shopping in general rather than purposefully shopping. That is called

696
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 1: the grew In transfer or the grew In effect, And

697
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: and Victor grew probably would not be very happy to

698
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: know that that was the case. No, And as we'll

699
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: see later, he in fact was not happy about that.

700
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: Uh So Malcolm Gladwell, Josh's mortal enemy. He did an

701
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,879
Speaker 1: interview with a Alfred Tubman and he said it's called

702
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: threshold resistance. He said, people assume that we enclosed his

703
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: face because of air conditioning and climate control. He said,

704
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: what it really did was allow us to open the

705
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: store to the customer. Just what we talked about, that

706
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: introverted thing. All of a sudden, you're in this huge

707
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: retail utopia. All the doors are open at all time,

708
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: and you're just strolling through the mall and you walk

709
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: by Nike Town, and they have like looks like a

710
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 1: nightclub in there, so you're just sort of unconsciously drawn

711
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,280
Speaker 1: inside there, like I'd like to make some new friends, truly,

712
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: I can't Nike Town. Uh. Back in the day in

713
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 1: shopping centers, they used to have live bands, and that

714
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: was replaced, of course, with music later on, which is

715
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: you know, you take like a normal song like Bread's

716
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: I Want to Make with You, and then you remove

717
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: the lyrics, the percussion, replace it all with strings, and

718
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, people are just walking around. Like

719
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 1: by most by it works really well, so much so

720
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: that the people at malls who are typically in charge

721
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: of the music were the same people who were in

722
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: charge of the heat and the lighting, the facilities manager.

723
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,439
Speaker 1: That's how much music meant to It was like part

724
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: of the building. But at the same time, you can't

725
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 1: really call it music, you know. In fact, you probably

726
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: call something weird like music. Yeah, you think about the

727
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: coolest DJ. I'm not hip on that scene. Uh, Steve Ioki, Okay,

728
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 1: the facilities manager is the opposite of Steve Ioki. But

729
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: they're sitting in their room and and they're controlling the

730
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: music and the the lights and the sounds of the

731
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: mall all in that little room dead mouse. Oh, I

732
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 1: know what that is. But the s is a number five?

733
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: Right yeah? So hip, so hip. I'm not old. I

734
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: know that guy too. So we talked a little bit

735
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: earlier about the the cycle of the mall, the two

736
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: story layout. And while you can go to malls where

737
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: there are three stories, um, most of the malls I've

738
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: been to that have a third story. It's not the

739
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: entire mall. There'll be like a section with a third story.

740
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: I don't know if they built it on or what,

741
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: but generally you see a two story mall because you

742
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: had that cycle the across down, across, up, back to

743
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: your car and you've seen all the stores. Right, But

744
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: if you have a third level, you go across, down, across.

745
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 1: My car should be here. But now I have a

746
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: third level and I'm stuck. I'm just gonna wander around

747
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: this corner until some people come get me. And as

748
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, Valco mall had three levels. Look

749
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: what happened to it? What mall? It's the local mall.

750
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 1: Oh and the fourteen people from San Francisco applied right, yeah, Oh,

751
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:11,319
Speaker 1: it's in San Jose it's like the same place. Come on,

752
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: I think you could default to Bay Area and you

753
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: do yourself a lot of favors. You're hearing this from

754
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: like the guy who took off an infinity scarf right

755
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: before he came on stage because he was told like,

756
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: it's not cool anymore. I don't even know what that is.

757
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: So you're burn does not work? No, No, I was

758
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: talking about myself burning you, buddy. I wasn't burning you,

759
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 1: all right, burn? Yeah, any scarf, it's a stupid what

760
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 1: else did they figure anyone where? You're fine? Lady? Your

761
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: infinity scarf is fine? Is that an infinity? That's lovely?

762
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,640
Speaker 1: Can you come up here and show everyone when an

763
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: infinity scar I'm kidding? No, everyone stopped now. Yeah, because

764
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: we thought about adding runway modeling to our shows. That

765
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: would be a great time. Sorry about the infancy scarf joke.

766
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: Now I feel terrible. Is anyone drinking nothing but soilent

767
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: right now? I should have made that joke instead. I'm

768
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 1: looking over my glasses for more clothes I can make

769
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: fun of Tyler Murphy. That beard is something else. He

770
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,439
Speaker 1: died of blue. Everybody, all right, this is another part

771
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 1: that's gonna be edited out later, so Tyler say whatever

772
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: you want. So the other thing they figured out with

773
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: keeping people in the mall, which is a big goal,

774
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: is that that people like to shop with other people.

775
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: But sometimes the people that you bring to shop with you,

776
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: namely husbands, don't like to be at the mall. So

777
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: they said, well, let's put comfy areas in the mall,

778
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 1: like chairs. And in fact, there was a quote that

779
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:55,800
Speaker 1: said a chair says we care a famous mall designer.

780
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: What it really means is a chair says we can

781
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: keep your wife here longer than you like to be here. Right.

782
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 1: The husband's like, oh, I just want to lay down

783
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: and die on my floor at home. Can I just

784
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: go home? Like you can lay down and die here, sir? Right,

785
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: lay there? Shut up. So the ironies are growing, we

786
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,840
Speaker 1: said earlier. I don't think we specifically said he was

787
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: a socialist. Now it's really weird for a socialist to

788
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: be the father of the shopping mall, wouldn't you think.

789
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: And his original idea was that people could go there

790
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: and espouse their views, and that maybe happen once in

791
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, until the Supreme Court came in and

792
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: said in the case of hud Hudgens versus Natural Relations

793
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,879
Speaker 1: Labor Relations Board. Basically, these union dudes wanted to pick

794
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: it inside the mall and they did so they got

795
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: kicked out. They sued, and the Supreme Court said, actually,

796
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: his private property, and you can't bring your picket signs

797
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: in here. And and the picketers were like, wait, wait, wait,

798
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: the all is the new heart, the new civic center

799
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: of American life. In the Supreme Court, don't be an

800
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 1: idiot place of shot dummy and everyone. When I didn't

801
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: hear what you just said, We're gonna just keep pretending

802
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: like the mall is the hardest civic life. So it

803
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: was a big problem for Grew And actually he um

804
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: he also hated cars. He was big into walking. He

805
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: was in favor of pedestrianism. And yet you have to

806
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: drive a car to get to the mall. And not

807
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: only that, you have to park, like some of his

808
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: creations want. I think Southdale had like two point eight

809
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 1: million square feet of parking, and he called these things

810
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: like land wasting seas of of parking lots. So as

811
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: he's as he's designing these things, he's like, I'm not

812
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: very happy about this, and they would go do it anyway,

813
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: even the stuff he scratched out. They're like, no, this

814
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 1: is a good idea. We're gonna go with this. And

815
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: he had like, no, say whatsoever. After a while now

816
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: and he got pretty disgusted, and he left the United

817
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: States forever. In the nineteen sixties, went back to Europe

818
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: and said. Uh. In nineteen seventy eight, a couple of

819
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: years before his death, he gave a speech in London

820
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 1: and said, I am often called the father of the

821
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 1: shopping mall. I would like to take this opportunity to

822
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: disclaim paternity once and for all. I refused to pay

823
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: alimony to those bastard developments. They destroyed our cities. And

824
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: they said, sir, we have the paternity tests and you

825
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 1: are the father, right He said, no, I'm not, No,

826
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: you really are. Yeah. We used lumen all in everything. Uh.

827
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: Maybe we should take another ad break. Yeah, let's take

828
00:49:39,360 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: another ad break. We'll be back right after this, and

829
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: we're back. We should, I guess move on to the

830
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 1: death of the mall. Yeah, because I don't know if

831
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: you guys know this or not, but malls are not

832
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: doing very well these days. I know, but you'll probably

833
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: like the rest of this episode. The mall actually peaked

834
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety at sixteen million square feet of new

835
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 1: space opened in that year, and it's been tapering off

836
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: ever since. And here's a little staggering statistic for you.

837
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: Since the nineteen fifties, when the first mall was built,

838
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: there was at least one mall built every single year

839
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: until two thousand seven, usually many, many mall, well up

840
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: to a million from what I hear. I mean that's

841
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 1: an estimate, but yeah, yeah, so two thousand seven marked

842
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: the first year that a new mall wasn't built, and

843
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: I think there were no new malls built until two

844
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: thousand twelve in the United States. Uh, two thousand eight. Recession,

845
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: the Great Recession had a really big impact on retail. Yeah,

846
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 1: that's there's like a bunch of different reasons people put

847
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: for what killed the mall. Right, the mall has long

848
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: been known for killing the American downtown. Right, the mall

849
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: moved out to the suburbs in the downtown just kind

850
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 1: of went away. Right, So reason number one is that

851
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: the Great Recession killed them mall. And this is true

852
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: to a pretty large extent actually, like from World War

853
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: Two until I think two thousand nine, Every single year

854
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: Americans spent more money than they had the year before,

855
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: which is nuts. Right. Then two thousand nine comes and

856
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: we stopped, and not only did we stop, we actually

857
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: declined tremendously. We stopped spending by something like ten percent.

858
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: And then the money that we did spend, we started

859
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: spending at Target and Walmart, not at the mall or

860
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: at places like j. C. Pennies or Sears who tried

861
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: to keep these malls propped up, and who mall is

862
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 1: depended on. Because again, remember, if you go to a mall,

863
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 1: the whole reason the mall exists is for the department

864
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: stores to spread their traffic out to the smaller stores.

865
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: And if the department stores are hurting, which they were,

866
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: then the smaller stores heard as well. So as these big,

867
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 1: large anchor stores started to go under, the malls did

868
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: as well. But people said the Great Recession was pretty bad.

869
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: It's probably not the only reason that the mall is dying. Yeah,

870
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: we mentioned Amazon dot Com earlier, and they're not the

871
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: only online retailer, of course, and you can tell we're

872
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 1: not from the area because we say dot com after it.

873
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 1: We just want to make sure you guys know what

874
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're trying to communicate with you. I

875
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: can't believe I said that. How nerdy we would both

876
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: of us have said it like five or six times. Stuff.

877
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: You should know. Dot com Well, there's dot orgs and

878
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:58,959
Speaker 1: dot nets and dot yeah, not Amazon, dot e d US,

879
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: dot UK specificity is a soul of narrative. Oh good one,

880
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 1: thank you. Take that, everybody, thank you. Uh. In two

881
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, traditional retailers, for the very first time, generated

882
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: about half their sales from the web. Um, but you can't,

883
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: like I do all my shopping online now, I literally

884
00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 1: haven't been. I think I went to the mall last

885
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: year for something and asked my wife, she's out there.

886
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: I was miserable. I hated it, but we had to

887
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: go for some reason or another. I can't remember, probably

888
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: staying the line for a stupid phone. I'm just kidding

889
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: out and do that either. But I almost stood in

890
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: line for breakfast this morning right here in San Francisco,

891
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 1: because that's the thing. Jeez. But online retailing isn't that

892
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 1: big of a thing yet. Uh, even if it hits

893
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: the fifteen percent annual growth over the next three years

894
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 1: that they project by two thousand nineteen, it'll still only

895
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: be about two point four I'm sorry, twelve point four

896
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 1: percent of retail, which is not enough to kill them all,

897
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,359
Speaker 1: but it's a factor no. And plus you can kind

898
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 1: of find this weird confidence in the idea that malls

899
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: may continue limping along if you're into that kind of thing,

900
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: by the fact that Amazon dot Com open a brick

901
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 1: and mortar store a bookstore to help boost their online sales,

902
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: which is mind boggling, but they did it in Seattle.

903
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: But more than anything, perhaps the reason the malls died,

904
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: it's because they were never meant to live forever. Uh.

905
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: And this next part is about the economics of malls,

906
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 1: and specifically it sounds so boring tax loopholes concerning malls.

907
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 1: Josh is gonna explain it. Okay, So if you build

908
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 1: a building somewhere, and I should say hats off to

909
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: Gladwell for explaining this too. This comes largely from him.

910
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: But if you build a building somewhere and say, like

911
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty, um, the government said, you know what, your

912
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 1: building is not going to hold up forever, so you

913
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: can deduct a certain percentage of your building's value every

914
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: year and put it aside tax free to replace that

915
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,479
Speaker 1: building eventually. And at the time when shopping malls first

916
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 1: started to come about in the early fifties, the the

917
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: deduction for this wear and tear was one. Right, Like,

918
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: you had a forty years to deduct this value of

919
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,480
Speaker 1: your your building. This is not going well, No, that's

920
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: perfect so far. I'm checking in for accuracy. Okay, Right,

921
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: I feel like like my fingernails are bleeding. So every year, right,

922
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: if you went and built a shopping mall, you could

923
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: deduct one of the value of the shopping mall. Not

924
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: a huge deduction, but it was something. It's the problem

925
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: is is this depreciation deduction was It was something, but

926
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: it wasn't enough. If you built a shopping mall in

927
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: the early fifties, you were really asking for trouble because

928
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: they were hugely expensive. They cost like twenty million or

929
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: thirty million, which are on par to a hundred and

930
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: eighty or two hundred million dollars today, right, and you

931
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: were going to make your money back very very slowly.

932
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: But then and I think nineteen the US government said,

933
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: you know what, we really want to kind of get

934
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 1: things going on building and construction. Uh, we want to

935
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: make sure Josh and Chuck have something interesting to talk

936
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:33,160
Speaker 1: about at the end of their Malls episode years from now.

937
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 1: So we're going to change the tax code, and they did,

938
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 1: and they created or allowed for something called accelerated depreciation,

939
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: and this changed everything, Chuck. So I'm gonna go back

940
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty one. The Wall Street Journal wrote a

941
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,879
Speaker 1: little article trying to describe this financial situation for real

942
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: estate company name Cratur Corp. Sounds totally made up. I

943
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,240
Speaker 1: can eave villains business that you would run or std

944
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: I abbreviated, what does that stand for? It won't go away, Doc,

945
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna I'm gonna million to one, I tell you.

946
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: So this is the sixty young and around the numbers

947
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: just to make it easier. So let's say Crowder Corp.

948
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:34,520
Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty made about ten million bucks overall. Is

949
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 1: everyone writing this down as we're saying that, So deductions

950
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: from operating expenses and mortgage interests is about five million bucks.

951
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: So they still make about five million bucks. Not a

952
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: bad income, but not good enough. Then came the depreciation,

953
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,920
Speaker 1: accelerated depreciation to the tune about seven million dollars. So

954
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: all of a sudden crowder, instead of having a profit

955
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: of five million dollars on the books, has a loss

956
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: of a couple of million dollars on the books. And

957
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: everyone has these huge tax write offs. And now you

958
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: fully understand, if you didn't before, why our next president

959
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: doesn't pay income tax. Right. It's basically this accelerated depreciation

960
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,479
Speaker 1: on real estate that allows you to write off these

961
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: massive amounts of money to show big losses where you're

962
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: in fact making gains. Right. And the big change of

963
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: the tax code was to the I R s. They're

964
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: still getting the same amount of taxes over the life

965
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: of the building. They just said, if you want to

966
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: deduct this depreciation at the beginning of the life of

967
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,760
Speaker 1: the building, that's fine with us. It's it's all the

968
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: same to us. Well, if you were a developer, you

969
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: would build this building, deduct as much as you could

970
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:48,480
Speaker 1: over say three four five years, maybe even break even

971
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: just from the tax deductions, and then sell that mall

972
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: for pure profit of fifty or a hundred or a

973
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million dollars and walk away laughing and

974
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 1: laughing and laugh and exactly, we're in your cape. But

975
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: here's the thing. They wouldn't like put that money back

976
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: into the mall to make it better. They would sell

977
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 1: it off like you said, and just go build a

978
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: bigger mall further out. And now we'll call these ex serbs.

979
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: They're not even suburbs. Because they were all about going

980
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: where the land was cheapest. The mall stopped being a

981
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 1: place to actually service people. They would just build malls

982
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: where they could get the best deals on land and

983
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 1: found that people would drive to them and sometimes even

984
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: build entire towns around them. Right, yeah, let's move to

985
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: the mall. And it's true. And so under this view,

986
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,800
Speaker 1: when you really understand why there were two thousand or

987
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: three thousand or a million malls built in the United States, huge,

988
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 1: huge mall. Some cities had multiple malls, when you realize

989
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,400
Speaker 1: that they were built for text breaks and not to

990
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,080
Speaker 1: fulfill some consumer demand, then of course they were destined

991
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: to shrivel and die because they were part of an

992
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: artificial supply. And once that him exposed and the text

993
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: bricks went away, malls started going down. And uh, it's

994
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: sad in a way. When a mall goes under. People

995
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: have associations of memories with the mall, you know, like

996
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 1: you you think about all the mall walkers you've seen

997
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: and loved walking around the mall, and when it dies,

998
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: it's it's it's sad. But even more than that, it

999
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 1: can actually, depending on the town, can take an entire

1000
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: city down with it. Yeah, there was a place north Randall, Ohio. No,

1001
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: I'm satisfied. What do you mean really, I mean it's

1002
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:36,520
Speaker 1: outside of Cleveland. I figured half of Cleveland probably tried

1003
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 1: to move to some Even Emily didn't cheer for that one.

1004
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: I know she's from Ohio. So they had the Randall

1005
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 1: Park mall and uh, it costs about a hundred and

1006
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,560
Speaker 1: seventy five million bucks to build in and get this.

1007
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: The grand opening, five thousand guests had champagne, twelve hundred

1008
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,439
Speaker 1: pounds of fresh shrimp, crab, cold roast, turkey, hot corn,

1009
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: beef and ham, um, melon and cheese, small crapes filled

1010
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,880
Speaker 1: with chicken and spinach, coffee and dessert. Uh. It was

1011
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 1: like a Roman orgy basically. And disguise of the opening

1012
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 1: of them all you got you got the world's largest

1013
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: cup of lemonade. Yeah, it wasn't too bad. I just

1014
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: hate that I put my mouth on that thing along

1015
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: with other people. He should have at least had smaller

1016
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 1: cups or maybe not professional swimmers inside the cup. No,

1017
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: there were seahorses, but no, no no, no, those are fine.

1018
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 1: You just they passed right through your digestive tip. You

1019
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: don't metabolize this. So gross. Uh. Tommy Dorsey showed up

1020
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: at the grand opening of this mall with this orchestra

1021
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: to play. It was a big event. But Randall Mall

1022
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,439
Speaker 1: has since fallen on hard times and those two point

1023
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:55,160
Speaker 1: two million square feet of retail space have been shuttered

1024
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: and um almost along with it. Uh North Randall, Ohio

1025
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: as a whole, That whole town is sort of on

1026
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: life support basically because of closing of the shopping mall.

1027
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: Really yeah, but there are some malls that are still

1028
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: doing well. Outlet malls are thriving. High end malls, in

1029
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,040
Speaker 1: case you're wondering how they're really wealthy, are doing pretty good.

1030
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 1: High end malls are thriving like you would not believe.

1031
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: They're up by fourteen point six percent since the economic crisis.

1032
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: And there's this dude, his name's Rick Caruso. He pretended

1033
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 1: the uh, the death of the mall. Malls are dead,

1034
01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: They're gone unless they reinvent themselves, and it just so

1035
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: happens that I build the type of mall that malls

1036
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: should reinvent themselves into. So he basically is trying to

1037
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: recreate downtown, but a nice, happy disneyesque downtown where nothing

1038
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: ever goes wrong and everything is great. And by the way,

1039
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: it's also a mall and it's outdoors. And to follow

1040
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 1: this trend, malls are doing the exact opposite of what

1041
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: they did when Gruen started designing and closed malls. They're

1042
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: tearing the roofs off and following this new trend to

1043
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: try to survive. Yeah, he calls them lifestyle centers. I

1044
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 1: don't know if there's one here. There's one in Atlantic

1045
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: called Atlantic Station. I hate them more than anything, really

1046
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: strong opinions. At least the mall is a mall. It's

1047
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:23,479
Speaker 1: not pretending to be a small town. You know, It's true.

1048
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: It's like, look, we just built these streets and there's

1049
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: it looks like a stoplight, but your your child can

1050
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 1: control it fully. And then there's no cars with a button.

1051
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: So it's it's like downtown USA. There's no crime anywhere,

1052
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:39,920
Speaker 1: security guards everywhere, and all you do a shop, shop shop,

1053
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: So to me, there's like there's a certain sadness over

1054
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 1: the depth of the mall. Like for me personally, I

1055
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,640
Speaker 1: think even for some of the boos in here you

1056
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 1: spend time at the mall, the mall represented something to America.

1057
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 1: But if you step back and look, it's about exactly

1058
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: what the mall represents, and even more to the point,

1059
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 1: with the death of the mall represents, is it really

1060
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,680
Speaker 1: the death of a golden age or a golden eraw

1061
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 1: when things were great? Because if you look at the mall,

1062
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: it's an outpost of consumerism. It's like a church of consumption, right,

1063
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 1: So if we've lost that, then maybe out of the ashes,

1064
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: out of the things that are so broken right now,

1065
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 1: you can find some kind of weird hope that maybe

1066
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: we can rebuild in a new, better way to where

1067
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: the most important part of civic life isn't the mall. Wow,

1068
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: and that is mall. That's malls. Thank you everybody you

1069
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:51,120
Speaker 1: can for more on this and thousands of other topics.

1070
01:04:51,360 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: Is that how stuff works? Dot Com two