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Speaker 1: Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson.

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Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationships and

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Speaker 1: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling, Railvalry, No, no, sibling.

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Speaker 1: You don't do that with your mouth, Vely. That's good, Ollie.

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Speaker 1: It's been a it's been a bit. We've taken some

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Speaker 1: time to think about what we and how we wanted

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Speaker 1: to speak to current events and how we feel about it.

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Speaker 1: And I was actually watching a ConA interview with w

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Speaker 1: camal Bell and they talked about how it's not black

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Speaker 1: people's job to tell white people what they can do

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Speaker 1: right now. And you yourself actually had an experience with

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Speaker 1: a friend who said something similar to you, which I

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Speaker 1: thought was interesting. Yeah, I did, And this was early

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Speaker 1: on and I just asked. I didn't ask a question.

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Speaker 1: I just had I'd love to have a conversation, you know,

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Speaker 1: here's what I'm feeling, and I would just love to

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Speaker 1: have a chat. And he texted me read this first

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Speaker 1: and sent me an article basically telling me to not

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Speaker 1: ask him any questions and do my own work. So

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Speaker 1: it was educational, even in his pointing me in the

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Speaker 1: right direction. So in Conan's particular example, Wkmal Bell put

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Speaker 1: a woman her name's Kate Shots in charge of Conan's

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Speaker 1: whiteness quote you know, quote unquote whiteness. And I listened,

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Speaker 1: we poached her. We poached her. Yeah, I listened to that,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, I want to

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Speaker 1: call o Kate. I think that. Yeah, I hear you,

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Speaker 1: w Kamal, I want to call Kate. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of questions, and it felt like the right thing to

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Speaker 1: do would be to call Kate and ask some questions

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Speaker 1: and have a dialogue with her about everything that's happening

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Speaker 1: right now and how we're feeling and what is the

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Speaker 1: best kind of way forward. The big question with white

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Speaker 1: people is what can I do? You know? I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of black friends are being inundated with white

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Speaker 1: friends asking them how do I contribute? What can I do?

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Speaker 1: You know? And it's not necessarily their job to explain

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Speaker 1: to us the history of racism or what we can

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Speaker 1: do to be a part of the solution. I think

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Speaker 1: part of it is discovering that ourselves. And so it

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Speaker 1: was nice to talk to her, you know, being the

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Speaker 1: professor in a sense. Yeah, And she says too, like

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Speaker 1: he's not an expert. She's just been a field and

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Speaker 1: spoken to this. She's a writer and she has spoken

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Speaker 1: to this for so long, so she is clearly very

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Speaker 1: well informed. And I learned so much. And I just

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Speaker 1: hope that I hope that this episode is enjoyed and

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Speaker 1: that we all learn a lot. I know that's a

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Speaker 1: very overused word right now. Actually it's not overused. It

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Speaker 1: could never be overused. I was actually talking about how

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Speaker 1: much I love that people are interested in learning, and

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Speaker 1: that people are saying that, like I want to learn,

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Speaker 1: I want to understand. It's a beautiful step forward. And

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Speaker 1: then the actionables how do we implement these things in

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Speaker 1: our daily life and moving forward? Right? And it's important

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Speaker 1: to say that, you know, we took some time to

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Speaker 1: figure out the right way to go about releasing an

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Speaker 1: episode after all of this, right, but there is no

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Speaker 1: right way. There is our way, and this is how

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Speaker 1: we sort of this is how we feel or how

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Speaker 1: we felt, this is the best way to sort of

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Speaker 1: present our first episode, right or wrong, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? Like this is the point we have to

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Speaker 1: be active. We have to take the chance of being wrong,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, are we going to get but

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Speaker 1: are we going to get dissed? Are we going to

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Speaker 1: get disc for having like a white woman on to

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Speaker 1: talk about, you know, race and what's going on. I

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Speaker 1: don't know who knows, but you know, this was a

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Speaker 1: choice and it's a choice that we stick by. And

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's about being uncomfortable and taking chances.

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Speaker 1: As long as it's coming from your heart and a

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Speaker 1: place of authenticity and you know, with positivity, then that's

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Speaker 1: all we that's all we can do. You know, we

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Speaker 1: are going to be airing these episodes, one here with Kate,

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Speaker 1: the next one with a professor of history, race and

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Speaker 1: public Policy at the Harvard Kennedy School, Khalil Mohammad, and

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Speaker 1: we and and continuing forward, we will speak to people

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Speaker 1: on the Black Lives Matter movement. And it's important to

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Speaker 1: me that I do my part in continuing to support

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Speaker 1: that and we need to continue talking about it, continue

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Speaker 1: the uncomfortable conversations and then actually doing the work, showing

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Speaker 1: the work, and then and then implementing it. It's really

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Speaker 1: important to understand the context, go back into history, you know,

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Speaker 1: just understand the patterns that have been created and adopted

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Speaker 1: for four hundred years and it just opens up your mind,

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Speaker 1: It changes your perspective, It brings in a lot of empathy.

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Speaker 1: You know. For me personally, it's all about momentum. We're

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Speaker 1: in a surge of momentum right now. It will wane,

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Speaker 1: there's no doubt, but we have to keep it, keep

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Speaker 1: it alive, keep the fire alive. Yeah. I think Also

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Speaker 1: one thing I've learned from this conversation and from just

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Speaker 1: listening to a bunch of other stuff, it's like, when

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Speaker 1: you feel like, as a white person, right, there's so

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Speaker 1: many white people and this or get so defensive about

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Speaker 1: this movement, and like, I guess what I would say

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Speaker 1: is that if you're feeling defensive, if you feel you

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Speaker 1: feel like you need to defend your whiteness or you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just stop and ask yourself why you feel that way,

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Speaker 1: you know, before reacting to the feeling, you know, realize

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Speaker 1: that whatever that feeling is, whatever that defensive nature, whatever's

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Speaker 1: going to deflect from this movement, whatever that is is

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Speaker 1: what a lot of people are talking about, Like the

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Speaker 1: systemic racism this country built on white supremacy. All these

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Speaker 1: things that we're starting to really learn about and put

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Speaker 1: at the forefront of educating people, like part of sometimes

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Speaker 1: that defense is exactly what that is speaking to and

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Speaker 1: just like stop breathe and like recognize your whiteess for

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Speaker 1: a second, you know, and and ask yourself why you're

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Speaker 1: feeling that way. Yeah. I think Kate Shots answered the

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Speaker 1: question very eloquently and perfectly honestly, because you know, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are probably feeling, well, white privilege. I

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Speaker 1: worked my ass off to get where I got. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, white privilege. I work my fucking

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Speaker 1: ass off. I came from a very poor family that

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Speaker 1: my mom left and she was a drug abuser. And

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Speaker 1: you know how am I white privileged? But you know,

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Speaker 1: that's where a lot of defensiveness probably comes in. But

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Speaker 1: that's where you got to go underneath, look under the

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Speaker 1: surface a little bit. Even in that situation, you're the

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Speaker 1: color of your skin has afforded you, you know, benefits

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Speaker 1: that you know someone of color does not did not,

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Speaker 1: you know. And she explains that very well. I hope

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Speaker 1: it does inspire people to have more dialogue, even if

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Speaker 1: it is uncomfortable, and even if it's a debate, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, even if you're even if

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Speaker 1: you're going against something that your family member might feel.

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Speaker 1: It's important to have that discussion and that debate. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can change minds. You know it's it's possible. You

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Speaker 1: know it's important. It's important just to have the dialogue.

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Speaker 1: Kate Shots, thank you for being here to just hopefully

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Speaker 1: answer I know a lot of questions that Oliver and

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Speaker 1: I have, and you know, I know you're in charge

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Speaker 1: of Conan's whiteness, but we thought we'd take it upon

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Speaker 1: ourselves and and ask you to come be in charge

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Speaker 1: of our white us for an hour. Yeah, I'm really

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Speaker 1: here for as much whiteness as possible. It's the role

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Speaker 1: that I am. I'm I'm taking on. I'm happy to

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Speaker 1: I keep saying, I volunteer as tribute for you know,

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Speaker 1: white people right now, and I will do what I

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Speaker 1: can to answer questions and offer insight. I'm not an expert,

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Speaker 1: because I don't think anybody is an expert on this stuff,

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Speaker 1: but I'm willing to talk about it, which is more

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Speaker 1: than a lot of us. Great, Well, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get I'm going to just hit hit our listeners with

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Speaker 1: your bio a little bit. You're a New York Times

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Speaker 1: bestselling author of rad American Women a dise and rad

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Speaker 1: Women Worldwide, as well as My rad Life a journal

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Speaker 1: and rid of Me a story. You're the co founder

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Speaker 1: of Solidarity Sundays, a nationwide network of feminist activist groups.

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Speaker 1: You're a writer, organizer, public speaker, educator, left handed, vegetarian,

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Speaker 1: Bay Area born and bred feminist activist. Mama, it's basically

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Speaker 1: my bio. You're left handed too. Well, I'm left handed lefties.

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Speaker 1: I'm a left handed feminist mama too. There you go.

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Speaker 1: Should we just jump right into this? I mean, how

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Speaker 1: did you how did you get you know, how were

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Speaker 1: you sort of selected to play this role? Right now?

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Speaker 1: How did this even happen? This came about last week.

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Speaker 1: So w camal Bell is a fantastic comedian and activist

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Speaker 1: and he's a good friend of mine. And when in

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Speaker 1: the wake of the murder of George Floyd and as

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Speaker 1: the protest started to increase, he reached out to me

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Speaker 1: and said, you know, I'm getting Basically, he was getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of white people coming to him, and he

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Speaker 1: was like, not everyday white people, like rich, powerful white people,

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Speaker 1: and they were coming to him saying what can I

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Speaker 1: do right now? What do I do? And he as

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Speaker 1: most people of color that I know are, was felt

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Speaker 1: tired of having to tell people what to do, and

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Speaker 1: so he kind of jokingly said to me, like, what

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Speaker 1: do you tell them? You're a white lady. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Can you help? Can I just send them to you?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, yes, come out, send the white

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Speaker 1: people my way. I will talk to them, I will

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Speaker 1: help guide them. Sure, I'll do what I can. I

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Speaker 1: did not expect the first white person to be Conan O'Brien,

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Speaker 1: but so he called. You know, he texted me the

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Speaker 1: next day, cool, I'm going on Conan in twenty minutes.

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Speaker 1: What should I tell him? I can? I send him

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Speaker 1: your way? And I said sure. So, I mean in

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Speaker 1: a way, it's you know, it's facetious. That's what come

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Speaker 1: Out and other comedians do so well, is to use

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Speaker 1: humor as a way to get to deeper important topics.

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Speaker 1: But but that's that's how it came about. And now

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Speaker 1: we're working together and he's dropping my name on other shows,

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Speaker 1: and what that's resulting in is me using social media

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Speaker 1: as a platform to connect and communicate and to try

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Speaker 1: to listen to the genuine questions that a lot of

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Speaker 1: white people have. Right now about what to do and

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Speaker 1: how to be, and I try to do it in

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Speaker 1: a way that's not about shaming or calling people out

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Speaker 1: or getting mad or canceling anybody. But you know, it's

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Speaker 1: also not about coddling and trying to make people feel good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel like so many powerful black leaders have actually

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Speaker 1: given an opportunity for white people to feel like they

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Speaker 1: can make mistakes and ask questions in a way that like,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to get it right all the time.

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Speaker 1: We're not gonna when someone says, like, you know, at

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Speaker 1: least for me, even you know, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: to say. I don't know what the right way to

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Speaker 1: say it is. I don't want to upset anybody. And

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, you're not always going to say it right,

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Speaker 1: and you're going to say something that's might upset somebody,

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Speaker 1: and you might, you know, but but you have to

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Speaker 1: keep talking about it and keep the well and you know,

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Speaker 1: don't you also have to take those risks, you know,

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Speaker 1: calculated risks. When you're just speaking from your authenticity and

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Speaker 1: your truth and your heart, sometimes you run the risk

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Speaker 1: of maybe saying the wrong thing, not intentionally right. I

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Speaker 1: think the problem is is we're living in this cancel

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Speaker 1: culture right now. There's a fear that if you do

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Speaker 1: say the wrong thing, you're just going to get hammered

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Speaker 1: for it. So then people stay silent. White people stay silent.

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Speaker 1: You know, I myself am trying to sort of work

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Speaker 1: through that part as well personally, you know. And and

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Speaker 1: I think one thing you said, Kate about you know

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Speaker 1: that we worry about making people upset, And I think

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Speaker 1: one thing to think about is people are already upset.

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Speaker 1: So people are really upset and really hurting, you know,

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Speaker 1: And so part of when we do step up and

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Speaker 1: speak and share our thoughts, you know, it's true, we

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Speaker 1: will end up upsetting people even more sometimes. And I

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Speaker 1: think one of the biggest lessons that white people can

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Speaker 1: learn right now is how to move with grace through

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Speaker 1: those moments. You know, if you are speaking authentically and

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Speaker 1: genuinely about what you believe and you are trying, you

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Speaker 1: will get it wrong at some point and someone might

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Speaker 1: call you out. And if you are a person who

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Speaker 1: has a really really big platform and a lot of influence,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really hard. And so when you get called out,

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Speaker 1: in what way can you listen? And you know, choose

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Speaker 1: a response that's grateful or graceful, and that that allows

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Speaker 1: you to learn instead of just like getting super reactive

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Speaker 1: in defense called out before Sure, Yeah, yeah, absolutely I've

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Speaker 1: been called out, you know what, I've been called in,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's those are phrases that people use too.

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Speaker 1: The difference between calling someone out and calling someone in, right,

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Speaker 1: so calling someone in being a kind of kinder but

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Speaker 1: still honest way to say, you know, hey, like I

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Speaker 1: didn't love what you said there, Like can we talk

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Speaker 1: about why that was hurtful or you know, I want

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Speaker 1: to like point out that you just use this phrase again,

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Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't your intention, because there's a difference. You know,

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Speaker 1: people will often react with well, I didn't mean to

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Speaker 1: I didn't mean for that to happen. But if your

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Speaker 1: words or your actions or your post harmed someone like that,

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Speaker 1: that's their their feelings are valid, you know. So I

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Speaker 1: like the idea of calling it, but yes, I have

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Speaker 1: absolutely been I think I think that it's also sort

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Speaker 1: of allowing the vulnerability to be something that is okay

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Speaker 1: and that people can be you know, access, because I

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Speaker 1: find that there's just so much defensiveness in this in

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Speaker 1: this conversation and you know it's okay if you if

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Speaker 1: we can give each other space to be vulnerable enough

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Speaker 1: to be like, I made a mistake, I'm sorry that

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Speaker 1: I want, I want to do right, my intentions are

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Speaker 1: in the right place, then you know, maybe maybe people

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Speaker 1: will start feeling a little bit more comfortable speaking up

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Speaker 1: a little bit louder. I know that in my circles,

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Speaker 1: the thing that is always asked between all white people

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Speaker 1: what do we do? Like? What what do we do?

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Speaker 1: You know? Are we damned if we do? Damned if

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Speaker 1: we don't, If we get too far in front of this,

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Speaker 1: does it become sort of performative? And is it self serving?

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Speaker 1: And if you don't say anything at all? Is it

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Speaker 1: you know? Like? What? What? What? How do you use

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Speaker 1: your platform for Black lives matter? If you feel really

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Speaker 1: connected to it and want to fight for it, which

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people at least in our

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Speaker 1: industry dow how what are the best ways to to

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Speaker 1: communicate that you're you know, an ally? Well? I think

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Speaker 1: that there's there's a couple of ways to look at it, right,

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Speaker 1: And part of it is like there's what you do now,

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Speaker 1: like today and tomorrow, because we're really in this moment. Right,

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Speaker 1: we're in a hot center of the moment, So it's

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Speaker 1: what do you do now and say? But then also

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Speaker 1: what do you do on a longer term basis? You know,

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Speaker 1: what does this work mean? So if you are a

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Speaker 1: company or a business and now, okay you put up

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Speaker 1: your Black Lives Matter sign on your Instagram page or

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Speaker 1: in your storefront, what does that mean for you? Your community,

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Speaker 1: your institution, your staff moving forwards? So there's a longer

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Speaker 1: term work that has to happen, and then there is

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Speaker 1: again the immediate. I mean, I love what's happening today

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Speaker 1: with the the share the mic now right, that's with

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Speaker 1: all of these really influential I don't know why I

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Speaker 1: wasn't asked to do, but there's like, yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: forty six influential white women with really big Instagram followings

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Speaker 1: and they're just giving their proof, their platforms over to

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Speaker 1: equally influential and incredible black women for the day so

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Speaker 1: people can listen and learn. So that's a fantastic That's

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Speaker 1: like to me, that's a really clear example of like

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Speaker 1: how do you leverage your privilege? Because that's what it's about.

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Speaker 1: Right when when white people are asking me what can

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Speaker 1: I do? To me, the real question is how how

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Speaker 1: can I leverage my privilege in this moment, you know,

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Speaker 1: to to lift up this movement. But then the other

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Speaker 1: thing I would say too is how can it's you know,

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Speaker 1: you want to be thinking about not just what can

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Speaker 1: I do, like where can I donate? Who can I support?

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Speaker 1: But what work do I need to do on myself?

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Speaker 1: Because to me, what I'm interested into is shifting the

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Speaker 1: conversation about race and racism away from racism is a

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Speaker 1: bad thing that happens to people of color, to racism

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Speaker 1: is rooted in white supremacy, and that impacts me as well. Right,

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Speaker 1: Whiteness is part of the conversation. And I think for

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Speaker 1: so many white people who've been raised especially if you're

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Speaker 1: raised in a kind of semi liberal or progressive kind

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Speaker 1: of seventies eighties setting, that there was this real cultural

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Speaker 1: myth about not wanting to ever talk about race, that

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Speaker 1: were color blind, you know, I don't see color, and

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Speaker 1: almost that we were grown grew up afraid to even

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Speaker 1: acknowledge race and racial difference. And the truth is, I

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Speaker 1: guarantee you every person of color knows that they're a

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Speaker 1: person of color. It's like white people are kind of

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Speaker 1: the only people that don't talk about it. So learning

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Speaker 1: to talk about our whiteness and our skin privilege as

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Speaker 1: part of the conversation about race is to me a

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Speaker 1: really important starting point because so often we talk about

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Speaker 1: it as if it's distanced, you know, away from us,

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Speaker 1: but white supremacy actually harms us. All well, I think

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Speaker 1: when you talk about that starting point, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just speaking for myself here, but there are different

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Speaker 1: lanes it seems to enter, you know, And for me,

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Speaker 1: the first one is sort of awareness, okay, just being aware,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the education because for me per personally,

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Speaker 1: it was about sort of digging into books, you know,

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Speaker 1: reading articles, not just on a surface knowing sort of well,

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Speaker 1: just sort of understand the broad understanding of what racism

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Speaker 1: is and was. It's getting into the depths of it.

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Speaker 1: It's truly understanding the word systemic, because systemic is now

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Speaker 1: becoming buzzy. But I think we need to look into

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Speaker 1: what that word actually means. And when we go back

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Speaker 1: four hundred plus years and follow the father, grandfather, great grandfather,

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Speaker 1: great great great great great, you know, there is a

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Speaker 1: it's in the fabric, you know, the systemic racism is

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Speaker 1: just in the in the it's in the fabric of America,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, how do we how do

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Speaker 1: we cleanse that? You know, how do we sort of

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Speaker 1: move forward from that? It's so deep and for me,

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Speaker 1: it's just understanding just the depth of it and how

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Speaker 1: far it goes. You know that that's been big for

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Speaker 1: me personally. Yeah, and that that what the challenge I think,

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Speaker 1: especially for people who are using social media. This moment's

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Speaker 1: moving fast. There's a lot expected that we react, that

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Speaker 1: we say the right thing. But that work that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about, that you're talking about is deep and it's thoughtful,

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Speaker 1: and it's long. Those books take a long time to read,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're really reading them, Like, you should

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Speaker 1: spend a while reading reading these books. And this is

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Speaker 1: four hundred years of history that we don't get taught. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not. It's not something where people are going to

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Speaker 1: learn in a week. You know, this is this is

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Speaker 1: a commitment to you know, the action. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: I I you said something about white supremacy. I want

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Speaker 1: I'm curious, how does white supremacy harm us? All? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know what I think. I just want to hear

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Speaker 1: from you, you know what what you really mean by that,

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Speaker 1: and you to elaborate on sure, sure, thank you. That's

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Speaker 1: so I would say in the same way that you

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Speaker 1: just said all over like systemic, has it become a

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Speaker 1: buzz word? White supremacy is a phrase that is you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a really strong phrase. It's like defund the police, right,

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Speaker 1: these phrases where a lot of people are just like, eh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we associate white supremacy with the KKK, and

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Speaker 1: it is. But if you break it down, white supremacy

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Speaker 1: is it's the belief that white people, on the basis

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Speaker 1: of their skin color, are supreme, are better, are the norm, right,

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Speaker 1: are the center and everything else is situated, you know,

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Speaker 1: in relation too. And that's how what the like you

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Speaker 1: said is four hundred years in this country. So it's

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Speaker 1: harmed us because it's a lie. The world is not white,

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Speaker 1: despite centuries of colonialism and attempts. The world is not white.

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Speaker 1: But white people are not the center of the world.

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Speaker 1: There are thousands of cultures and all kinds of people.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it gives us a skewed version

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Speaker 1: and vision of our own history and our ancestry, and

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Speaker 1: it puts us in a false position of superiority. And

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Speaker 1: I think that. I was talking yesterday to a wonderful

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Speaker 1: children's book author named Anastasia Higginbotham who wrote a book

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Speaker 1: for children about whiteness called not My Idea, with the

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Speaker 1: premise being look white supremacy and racism. It's not my idea,

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Speaker 1: white people, it's not It wasn't our idea. It's not. No,

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Speaker 1: it's not our fault, but it is our problem, right,

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Speaker 1: And she talked about in talking to children about race,

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Speaker 1: you know, the idea of talking to children about whiteness

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Speaker 1: as not as black people are treated badly but more

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Speaker 1: of because of their skin color, but as white people

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Speaker 1: we get treated unfairly. People treat us better, We get

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Speaker 1: things for unfair reasons because of our people don't suspect

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Speaker 1: us of things. People will assume better things about us.

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Speaker 1: And that's and that's not fair. I mean, it's not

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Speaker 1: a we don't have a level playing field and we

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Speaker 1: are given a leg up. So ultimately that is that

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Speaker 1: is hard. I have a question. I have a question actually,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know if this is controversial in any way,

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Speaker 1: but no, well, I'm just thinking about the other side

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Speaker 1: of things when we talk about patterns, Okay, when we

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Speaker 1: talk about something that is systemic, is racism learned? I

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Speaker 1: would say, so, okay, only because we come out these

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Speaker 1: sort of pure beings, right, So on the other side

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Speaker 1: of things, when you go down sort of the racist

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Speaker 1: path from grandfather to great grandfather, you know, how do

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Speaker 1: we break those patterns? So, if I'm coming from a

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Speaker 1: place of true compassion, okay, how do these kids have

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Speaker 1: a chance if they're growing up with racist parents, how

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Speaker 1: do we break that cycle? Because they're just these beautiful

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Speaker 1: beings that are born into the world and now they

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Speaker 1: are sort of being imprinted upon with this hate. So

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Speaker 1: you know, how do we deal with that side of things? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a great question, and it's so heartbreaking, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a thing we know like you do not.

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Speaker 1: You do not come into this world a hateful person.

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Speaker 1: You know, children, this stuff is absolutely learned. It's absolutely

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Speaker 1: inherited and taught. And I think you know my quickest

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Speaker 1: answer there are we we published and buy more radical

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Speaker 1: children's books. That's kind of why I do the work

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Speaker 1: that I do. And we also make sure that we

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Speaker 1: that we are paying attention to what's being taught in schools,

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Speaker 1: that we have history books that tell the full story,

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Speaker 1: that we have diverse teachers in schools. I mean not

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Speaker 1: to put it all in the schools, but if that's

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Speaker 1: the home environment they're growing up in school, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be one of the most powerful places. And also

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Speaker 1: the media. We make sure that we have television shows

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Speaker 1: and media that reflects kids of color and different experiences.

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Speaker 1: And we make sure that we have curriculum in schools

427
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: and teachers who are actually trained to be compassionate and

428
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: to understand kids of color and diverse histories. And yet

429
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 1: the other, the other thing is the word racism. You know,

430
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people would say, oh, I'm

431
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: not racist, right, right, Okay, I don't consider myself racist? Now?

432
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: Am I unconsciously biased? I think we're all biased to

433
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 1: some extent. But how do you sort of deal with

434
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: this idea or coming to terms as a white person

435
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: with your degree of racism? Because racism is such a

436
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: dirty word, right, It is hard to admit sometimes, so

437
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: you admit it. I'm racist. I've had racist thoughts, I

438
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: absolutely have. I'm not a bad person, and I work

439
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: really hard to resist them and to recognize them. Sometimes

440
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 1: I talk about it in terms of like like meditation.

441
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: Right when you're doing a meditation and you're told, like,

442
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: when the thoughts drift into your head, don't just don't

443
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: just ignore them, like let the thoughts just kind of be,

444
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: you know, and then but stay stay in your focus meditation.

445
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 1: So you know, sometimes I encourage people racist thoughts will

446
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 1: come into your head. You are conditioned that, I mean,

447
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: this is the thing. We are conditioned to see this

448
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: in the world, and it's about unlearning it. So if

449
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: you have a thought that comes into your head, you

450
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: see a person and you have an assumption what happens

451
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: if you let it kind of stay in your head

452
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: and acknowledge it and not just ignore it and pretend

453
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: like it never happened. So I think actually one of

454
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: the most powerful things why people can do is admit, like, yeah,

455
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: I have had racist thoughts, I've done racist things. I

456
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: don't want to be a racist, but you know, it's

457
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: like admitting the problem is a big part of the start. Kay,

458
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: Why is it so uncomfortable to talk about race? You know,

459
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: even as I'm sitting here, I have a little tightness

460
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: in my chest and my tummy. You know, Yeah, why

461
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: because let's see, I think for a number of reasons.

462
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: I think one because many of us were raised to

463
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: be afraid of it, to be afraid of those conversations,

464
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 1: to think that actually talking about it was wrong. Again,

465
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: unless you were, like if you were raised in an

466
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: actively racist household, then you were talking about race all

467
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: the time right outside of that. And you know, I

468
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: know who your parents are. They're pretty cool, Like I

469
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: know that, you know, like you were raised in a

470
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: way to not want to be racist, and so it's

471
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: scary to talk about it because it means acknowledging that

472
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: you are part of this hurtful, harmful history and problem

473
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 1: that you don't actually have a lot of control over, right,

474
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: And we will really want to we always want to

475
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: separate ourselves from the larger problem. Again though, that way,

476
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: I'm not a racist, you know, I'm not a racist.

477
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: None of us want to see ourselves as a part

478
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: of a harmful system. You know. It's like, men are like, well,

479
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sexist, I love women, my wife's awesome. I

480
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: would never It's like, well, you still are like part

481
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: of the patriarchy. What are you doing to dismantle that?

482
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: And to address that? You know, it's hard because it's

483
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: really uncomfortable, and because it makes you reflect on ways

484
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: in which maybe you have not acted well. And I

485
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: think it also I think that, especially for women, that

486
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: we are very conditioned to want to please people and

487
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,439
Speaker 1: to make people happy and make feel good, and we

488
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 1: don't like to be wrong. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, just

489
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: I hate my whole all of my Yeah, I don't

490
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: like it. You don't like any of those feelings, and

491
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: talking about racism makes us confront those feelings. Now, if

492
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: you're not part of the solution, then are you part

493
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 1: of the problem. Yeah, that's the that's the old adage, right, Okay, Right,

494
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: so now that's what this awakening seems to sort of

495
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: be right now, which is, wait a minute, No, I'm

496
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: not racist? Oh wait a minute, am I? Oh my bias?

497
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: What am I? Here's what I'm not. Here's what I

498
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: haven't been. I haven't been part of the solution. And

499
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: that's where my eyes are opening for myself, is I

500
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: haven't been part of the solution. I've lived my life

501
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: doing what I am doing, considering myself absolutely non racist. Okay,

502
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 1: but am I anti racist? Which I'm learning about now

503
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: as well. No, And this is where my shift is happening.

504
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: I want to become part of the solution. How do

505
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: I become part of this solution? I think it's also

506
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: how to, but it's also like what are the questions

507
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: what you're saying? And it is a great question, but

508
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 1: you know two part question, what are the questions we

509
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: should be asking ourselves? Yeah, so I think, yeah, I

510
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: love what you're saying all of our because I think

511
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: you're framing it in terms of in terms of action, right, Like,

512
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: there's a difference between being not racist and anti racist. God,

513
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: somewhere on the internet, I mean, the internet is filled

514
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: with so many fantastic videos that break all of this down,

515
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, like it it has been for a long

516
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: time and now and now it's like exploding with it.

517
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: There's a really good video somewhere I can't remember where

518
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: about the difference between being anti racist and just not

519
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: a racist person. And so yeah, like how do you

520
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: have do you get active? I like I tend to

521
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: direct people to your own immediate community and your own life.

522
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: I think people who are business owners, who have staff,

523
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: who have you know, like really doing an internal audit

524
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: of like who's working for you, who are you supporting?

525
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: What businesses are you supporting in your community? You know?

526
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: How you know, what what is that looking like? Is

527
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: that super white? Is it super males? It's super straight? Like?

528
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: How do you you know? How do you impact the

529
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: people working with you? But I also think that there's

530
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: so much to be done, just again within communities. The

531
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: other thing I say too for people who are like,

532
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: what can I do right now to be anti racist? Well,

533
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: we have the open election coming up in November, and

534
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: it's not just about the president, and this is a

535
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: time when we're really seeing how local city, state elections

536
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: are so meaningful and and racial injustice. The thing about

537
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: it and is that it impacts, It intersects with every

538
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: aspect of our community. It's healthcare, it's it's housing, it's

539
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: public education, right, it's all of these things. So there

540
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 1: are so many places for people to plug in and

541
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: be and be making an impact. And I do think

542
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: that those of the you know, elections, school board, city

543
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: council share all of those things. I mean, we saw

544
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: what happened in Minneapolis. That's a city council making decisions

545
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: about the entire police force. Are Yeah, well that's that's

546
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: what's crazy. Is And again, through my sort of awakening.

547
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: You know, really it's about local local government. I mean,

548
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: of course you've got your federal right, but to make

549
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: real change, you have to vet these people who are

550
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: elected officials, whether it be your district attorney, Ada sheriff,

551
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: mayor all of these people. So and I am, you know,

552
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: I box the president or the primary. And then I'm

553
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: like C C C in the bubble. So I'm like,

554
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: wait a minute. I go back, know, and I reflect

555
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: on my voting, and I'm like, shit, I don't fucking

556
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: pay any attention to that, and I need to pay attention.

557
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: That's really what matters most. Its huge. Yeah, you know.

558
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: The other thing I'd say too, is that what white

559
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: people can do, what you can do to be anti

560
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,239
Speaker 1: racist is to just talk about it. Is to be

561
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: that person in your group of friends once we all

562
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: hang out with friends again, or be that person in

563
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: the zoom you or whatever way you're communicating, or in

564
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: your family, like be the person to bring it up,

565
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: you know, in whatever way feels right for you. But

566
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: like for a very long time, pretty much forever, white

567
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 1: people have been letting people of color be the ones

568
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: to bring it up and then turning around immediately and

569
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: saying you're making it about race, You're playing that race card.

570
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: You know, we need to make it. We need to

571
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: make it about race. I think there's a lot of

572
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: white homes right now that are engaging in very heated

573
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: debate and it's important. It's important. There's a lot of

574
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: kids standing up to their parents saying I don't agree

575
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: with you. You You know, there's a lot of women standing

576
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 1: up to their partners saying, no, I do not agree

577
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: with you. But it's also admitting that you have bias,

578
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, that's huge, I think is to

579
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: actually and that's when they talk when you talk about

580
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: being uncomfortable, and it's not going to be comfortable. It's

581
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: actually coming to terms with the fact that you are racist.

582
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: It's a hard word to say, and maybe it's easy

583
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: to say bias, but you have bias. We all have bias.

584
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: We've all had it in our lives. There's just no

585
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: doubt about it. And to come to terms with that

586
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 1: and actually fully admit that it's not an easy thing

587
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: to do and say, to truly admit that and believe that.

588
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: You know, that's scary. It sucks, yeah, it does, but

589
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 1: it's like, really, really, I do think that once you

590
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: if you can begin to do that, I think it

591
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: does become easier to talk about, Like, at least for me,

592
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a little bit of like a

593
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: weight off the shoulders. I think it's also part of

594
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: why I feel comfortable having these conversations, Like it doesn't

595
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 1: it's not hard for me anymore because I've been having

596
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: them for a long time. And I think you asked

597
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: me earlier, have I ever been called out? Like, yeah,

598
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 1: I've I've learned a ton from listening to and reading

599
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: and talking to and being in community with people of

600
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: color who have pointed things out, who've helped me be better,

601
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: you know. And it's admitting these things is it makes

602
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: it much easier to talk what a real quick sorry?

603
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: Just what about just semantics for a second black African American?

604
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: You know, because there's always been a debate and in

605
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 1: your head, you know, you're sort of stutter. You're like, oh,

606
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: do I say black or do I say African American?

607
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: I read you know this guy Benjamin o'keef wrote an

608
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: article for Vox that really resonated with me. I started

609
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: following on my Instagram and then he posted something he's

610
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: saying I'm not African American. Where do you go with that?

611
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 1: So I think language is always evolving. You know, terms

612
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: you know constantly evolve, and I think I don't I

613
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: usually say black, I say people of color, I do,

614
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: I say African American. Sometimes when I write I capitalize black,

615
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: I do think it's I don't think there's one exact

616
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: right answer. And another thing, you know, a thing I've

617
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: been saying a lot in conversations this week is that

618
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: as white people, we have to remember also that like

619
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: black people and people of color are not a monolith, right,

620
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: Like they don't think of all the white people, you know,

621
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 1: and all the different opinions they have. Like the same

622
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: goes for people who are not white, right, So there's

623
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: not like always one right answer. And that's part of

624
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: what makes all of this work so difficult, is that

625
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: you are always going to offend upset someone. You know,

626
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: there might be people who are listening who are like,

627
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: why do you have the white lady on to talk

628
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 1: about race before having the African American guests next week? Right? Like,

629
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: some people will call that out, and some people will

630
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: be like, thank you for having this conversation about whiteness

631
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 1: first and doing that work. People are going to have

632
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: all kinds of opinions. And so I think to some degree,

633
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: I have Black friends who black works great for them.

634
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: I have people who prefer African American. I think it's

635
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: a personal preference for a lot of people. And I think,

636
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,919
Speaker 1: like you said, Oliver, like noticing what you're struggling with

637
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: and then going and looking it up and being like,

638
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: what is the right word? How do like doing? That's

639
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: part of like doing your work. Yeah, just because you

640
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: get it wrong doesn't mean you're a bad person. It

641
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: just means you learn something new and you and yeah, yeah,

642
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: it's just desensitizing your ignorance a little bit, you know.

643
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: I mean, you're learning. There's a lot as long as

644
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: your intention is to learn. Just as none of us

645
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: want to be wrong. We don't want to mess up.

646
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 1: We want to know. We don't like to be ignorant,

647
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: we don't like to not know things. But again, when

648
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: it comes to the history of this country, and it

649
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: comes to the history of race in this country, we

650
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: are ignorant. We do not get taught it. Unless you

651
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: went to a really radical social justice oriented school in

652
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: recent decades, you most likely did not learn the full

653
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: spectrum of American history as it pertains to race and

654
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: systemic racism and injustice. So you are in many ways

655
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: ignorant and now you are learning, and that is good.

656
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: Can you talk to redlining a little bit? Can you

657
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: speak to redlining a little bit? Kind of yeah? I mean,

658
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: I have to say, I feel like this is a

659
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: moment where there's so many people who've been working on

660
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: all this and doing this work in different aspects for

661
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: so long, and it's so wild as I talk to

662
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: my friends who are writers and who've been writing about

663
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: this also and historians, like people are like, oh my god,

664
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: they're saying redlining now. People are talking about the Tulsa

665
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: massaplud nineteen twenty one, Like, yeah, we're talking about it.

666
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: These are not things to be giggling about at all.

667
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: These are actually horrific histories. But they are really clear

668
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: example of systemic inequity. So redlining and people can google it,

669
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: but it was a very clear process around housing and

670
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: bank loans in the nineteen thirties in hundreds of American

671
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: urban areas and cities, where cities were broken up with

672
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: actual colored lines on maps that would rank the neighborhoods

673
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: in order of very desirable, kind of desirable, and then

674
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: all the way down to basically dangerous and like uninhabitable,

675
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: and those would be marked with a red line around them.

676
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: Those neighborhoods were where majority black communities live, also in

677
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 1: many instances Jewish communities, sometimes Eastern European immigrant communities, but

678
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: mostly black. And then those areas were basically unable to

679
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 1: get bank loans and all kinds of other, you know,

680
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: different kinds of financing. And it's like there's all these

681
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: studies and articles and charts that can show you exactly

682
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: how that sh American cities and low income neighborhoods and

683
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,959
Speaker 1: then how it impacts public schools and property taxes because

684
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: people could not buy homes, and home ownership is one

685
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: of the indicators of wealth, right that that is how

686
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: we pass down and have a lot of wealth in

687
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: this country. And so I feel like people started really

688
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: talking again about redlining in like two thousand and eight,

689
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: like during the crash, and people are suddenly looking at

690
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: all of these faulty loans. But that is a clear

691
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,959
Speaker 1: history during the nineteen thirties that we can learn about

692
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: really see why cities look the way they do so

693
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 1: crazy when you really look into that, it's just like

694
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: it's shocking real quick, just about kids, you know, because

695
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: I have three kids, Katus three kids. You have a kid,

696
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,359
Speaker 1: you know. I mean right now, I can just speak

697
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: from my own experience. My kids, they're asking a lot

698
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: of questions. There's no doubt about it. They don't we

699
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: live in this in a world, or at least I

700
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: can't get inside their heads. But they don't see it.

701
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: They don't feel what we're feeling right now. And there's

702
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: I think there's this sort of debate. At least I

703
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: am having the debate, and I've decided to speak to

704
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 1: my children, you know, sit them down. But do we

705
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: explain it to them? Of course we do. But there's

706
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: also this innocence that they have right now, and I

707
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: think there's a fear of sort of tainting them in

708
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: a way and giving them information that is going to

709
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: sort of skew their innocence. That's so white of you

710
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: to say that, all right, it is, that's the why

711
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: you've said so far, that's so right. Yeah, Well, I'm

712
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: just saying there's there are probably so many people who

713
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: are thinking that, yeah, well here's the thing what you're saying.

714
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: It's also incredibly parental. It's what every parent says. None

715
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: of us want our kids to know how shitty the

716
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: world is, right, it's like the worst. But that is

717
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 1: one of the clearest examples of white privilege is that

718
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: we get to decide when and how our children learn

719
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: about racism and all kinds of other things in the world. Right,

720
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: Black and brown children, most often they learn about racism

721
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: on the playground when someone calls them a name, or

722
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 1: they learn about it when a teacher clearly treats them differently.

723
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: They learn about it when a kid won't play with them,

724
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: or when someone says something mean about their mom on

725
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: the street, or when they see the N word written somewhere. Right,

726
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: that's how they learn about it. And the talk that

727
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: black parents have with their kids, especially their sons, is

728
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: very different than the ones that we have with our kids.

729
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: The talk that they have is basically, how to not

730
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: get killed by police. Right, here's what you do if

731
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: you ever see a police officer. Right, here's what you

732
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: do when you're driving. So I keep that in mind

733
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: while I'm having those difficult conversations with my kids, Like

734
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: if I think this is hard, like I have to

735
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: understand fully the conversations that parents of color have. The

736
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: other thing is, I think kids can handle scary things.

737
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: I think kids also, even if you haven't talked to

738
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: your kids about race and racism, they see it, they

739
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: notice that people are different colors, and then they can

740
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: handle a lot. I also think that kids understand justice

741
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 1: more than anybody else because they're like obsessed with fairness

742
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: and what's right and wrong. I mean, my kids are

743
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: like obsessed. If one of them gets more minecraft time

744
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 1: than the other, it's like a complete meltdown. So like

745
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 1: when we talked to it in terms of what's fair

746
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: and what's not, they can really understand. And I think,

747
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: to me, some good strategies for talking to kids, I mean,

748
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 1: absolutely talk to them. I find with my own kids,

749
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: who are seven and eleven, the most effective conversations we

750
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 1: have are not like the big sit down ones, but

751
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: like it's when something comes on the radio and I

752
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 1: kind of bring it up, or we're driving and I

753
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: kind of talk about it, or I'm having a conversation

754
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: with their dad or with my girlfriend or with someone

755
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: and they're listening and I kind of bring them into it,

756
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: and I think that goes with anything like sex, all

757
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: the stuff it's like hard to talk about. When you

758
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: sit them down, You're like, this is a very serious thing.

759
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: They're going to be like no, So finding ways to

760
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: weave it in, right, give us some context. Yeah's been

761
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:07,399
Speaker 1: talking about sex with his kids since they were born. Yes, right,

762
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: but there's age appropriate there's age appropriate ways. So in

763
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: the same way that I started talking to my son

764
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: about of sense and like bodies when he was like

765
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: three years old, I didn't talk about it in terms

766
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: of sex, but I started talking to him about what

767
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: it means to give consent for someone to touch your

768
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 1: body or touch another body. There's age appropriate ways that

769
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: we do this, and kids really get it. Can we

770
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: address the Black lives matter versus all lives matter? Oh? Yeah,

771
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: I know that. That is one of those things that

772
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: when someone tries to kind of bring that up or

773
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: debate that with me, like I just makes it. It

774
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: infuriates me. I'm trying to remember, there's so much information

775
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: floating around right now that I sometimes forget where it's

776
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: coming from. But someone was talking to it as recognizing

777
00:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 1: that all Lives matter movement was never a movement that

778
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: I was going to say, come ou says that, And

779
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: that's one of Comal's great points. He's like, look, think

780
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 1: about it this way. No one was saying all lives matter.

781
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: Before Patrice Culers and Alicia Garza and Opal Temetti started

782
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: saying black lives matter. That was not a thing. No

783
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: one was chanting that. So to even say it is,

784
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: it's always in opposition to or attempting to undermine the

785
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: idea and cause and movement of black lives matter. Right, Like,

786
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 1: point me to a moment before that, before twenty thirteen,

787
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: when those women got together in the wake of the

788
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: acquittal of George Zimmerman, the man who murdered Trayvon Martin.

789
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: Point me to a moment where anybody actually said that. Right,

790
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 1: So that aside, which is a great point again, black

791
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: lives matter is the thing that we will say until

792
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: it is true like all lives, all lives certainly do matter,

793
00:44:53,760 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: but until black lives matter as much as all lives statistically, legally, legislatively, emotionally,

794
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: spiritually in this country, we do not say that all

795
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: lives matter. I like it. Thank you for thank you

796
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: for you know, I think that's one of the big

797
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,959
Speaker 1: ones that I think it's like, I'm at this point,

798
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: I just my ears shut down every time someone tries

799
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: to I think one. I think one thing too. When

800
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 1: we're put in those positions where someone is really defensive,

801
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I'm always interested in any way we

802
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,479
Speaker 1: can disarm them and turn it around and just say, well,

803
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: why is that handful to you? What are you? What

804
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: are you defending? Like how how does that phrase hurt you?

805
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 1: It's not exactly your omission. The omission of you from

806
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: that statement is how does that negatively impact you? Like,

807
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, I'm interested to hear someone's actual answer to that.

808
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: That's a great question because then you're getting into their psychology,

809
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: like what is it about you that why are you

810
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: saying verse to this? But the answer is, you know,

811
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: we've heard it, Oliver. You know what the answer is,

812
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: because that's what always ends up being the answer is

813
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: that you are you are becoming The biggest problem is

814
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: by making it about race, it's and it's you're not.

815
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: It no longer becomes about equality, and you're like, you're

816
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: still missing the point. And that always right, it is

817
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: about race, and that's always whenever anybody comes with it,

818
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 1: like why are you making about race. The answer is

819
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: because it is about race. It's about race for hundreds

820
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: of thousands of millions of people. It just isn't for you.

821
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 1: So you look around see the conversations and what's really happening,

822
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 1: or you know, just because it's not for you about race,

823
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: you know it actually is. What does defunding the police

824
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,760
Speaker 1: actually mean? And I know that people are really starting

825
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: to understand this. It's very prominent on social media right now,

826
00:46:55,719 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: and yeah, yeah, what is defunding? I know people again,

827
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: it's a provocative hashtag, it's a provocative slogan. It gets

828
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 1: people to listen and then hopefully they educate and really

829
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: understand what it means. Yeah, so defunding the police at

830
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 1: this point in the conversation that people are having means

831
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 1: looking critically and carefully at how cities allocate their budgets

832
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: and how much money the police are getting and how

833
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: much money all the other public services are getting. Again,

834
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: you know, there's been a lot of good tweets and

835
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: memes about this. You know, one of the ones I

836
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: saw it from Zerlina Maxwell is basically like, look, if

837
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: you know, defunding schools, defunding everything. Republicans just call that

838
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 1: tax cuts. So tax cuts for the police is maybe

839
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 1: not as a power, you know, it doesn't have quite

840
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: the sound, but this is literally what we've been doing.

841
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: We have been defunding public education every year consistently. We

842
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: defund housing programs, we defund mental health programs all the time.

843
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 1: We do not actively defund police. And if you google

844
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: public school budget cuts right now, you'll see that across

845
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 1: the country, especially in the wake of the COVID crisis

846
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,720
Speaker 1: and the shutdown of schools. That is, I mean, budgets

847
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 1: are getting slashed, teachers are getting furloughed. We know that

848
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: that there's a crisis in public education, but we have

849
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: What defund the police as a slogan enables us to

850
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: do is start making connections in budgetary ways about how

851
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,359
Speaker 1: much the cops are getting and what they're getting it for.

852
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: And I think that for people who are interested, it's

853
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: not just about paying police. Police budgets are huge, and

854
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: it includes personnel and administration. It also includes equipment, and

855
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 1: you know, we can put pressure on our police departments

856
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: to be transparent about their budgets. How much money was

857
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:57,280
Speaker 1: spent on military grade tear gas, chemical weapons, or fancy

858
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: new tanks, you know, and all of this gear that

859
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: they buy, and how much was taken from your public

860
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: schools and what does it look like to shuffle stuff around?

861
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: You know? Another people also talk about, look, when you

862
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: call nine one one if there's a mental health crisis,

863
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: when we should have an option in cities to call

864
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: mostly now we have a non emergency number. But what

865
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 1: does it look like if there's actually a team of

866
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: mental health professionals that come and help someone who's in

867
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: an actual mental health crisis instead of cops with guns

868
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,840
Speaker 1: and tasers. How many phone calls to the police department

869
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: are made because of mental health issues? A lot and

870
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: a lot of phone calls are also made by white

871
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: people who are scared of innocent black people, right, And

872
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: so this is another that's a whole other conversation to

873
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 1: have is thinking about when and why you call the

874
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,279
Speaker 1: police and who you call the police on, and as

875
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: white people knowing that in most communities, if you call

876
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: the police on a person of color, on someone who

877
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: is mentally unstable, you are risking that person's life and

878
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: it should not be that way. You know, we should

879
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: be able to think and believe that if someone you

880
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 1: know like that, there's a person you know that's would

881
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: be threatening or anything or needs help that we could

882
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: call a number and have someone come and help them.

883
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: But that's not the case. It can be an actual

884
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: death sentence for for people of color. What are the

885
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 1: things that you what are the organizations that you feel

886
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: are really doing amazing work that could even further people's

887
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: education and also places to donate and things like that. Yeah, yeah,

888
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: I mean I should have like my ready to go

889
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: list at this point, you know. I mean, I think, yeah,

890
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: because I'd love to post it with our with this, Yeah,

891
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I think. I mean, I think Black lives matter,

892
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: like I would, I would point people to them and

893
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: to the to the work that they're doing, and to

894
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: the kind of networks they have because they tend to

895
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: you know list, they tend to partner and kind of

896
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: umbrella with a lot of great work organizations. You know.

897
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 1: But I also I think for white people there's an

898
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: organizations it is not to donate too, but for people

899
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: that are looking to do more their surge which is

900
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: showing up for racial justice, and it is an organization

901
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: specifically for white people who want to be involved in

902
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: anti racist work. I think that is fantastic, and I

903
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 1: think in terms of donating right now, though, I really

904
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: want to push people to look at their own communities

905
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,480
Speaker 1: and look at smaller community based organizations that our do

906
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: have already been doing this work in your community. I

907
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of national ones getting a lot

908
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: of money, especially as big corporations are starting to like

909
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: give millions of dollars, which is great. Let's not lose

910
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: sight of the local people again, and that might be

911
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: like your food bank, you know, that might be any

912
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: way that we can support, you know, after school programs

913
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: for kids. I mean a lot of my focus is

914
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: on young people because I think too when we go

915
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: in whatever way we go back to school, eventually, we

916
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: already know there's a huge achieved my gap. We already

917
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,879
Speaker 1: know that kids of color are going to be most

918
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,880
Speaker 1: impacted by budget cuts. So anything you can do in

919
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: your community, whether it's like a donor's choose for you know,

920
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: public schools and lower income neighborhoods, I think that's one

921
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 1: of the best places to put your dollars. Also, on

922
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: those candidates, especially women of color, who are going to

923
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 1: be running for office in November, that's another good place

924
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: to put the money. Yeah, women women of color. I

925
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: you know, when you look at the numbers, you look

926
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: at the statistics, you know, And this is for me too,

927
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: just as being having my business and how you know,

928
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: holding people accountable for how they hire and supporting for

929
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 1: me women of color and positions of power. Yeah, that's

930
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,839
Speaker 1: a big one. I wanted to touch upon one thing

931
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 1: just this shame, white shame. Yeah, And where does that

932
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 1: come into play? Meaning should you feel do you feel

933
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: ashamed personally? Do you have shame? You know? Because and

934
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 1: where does that play for you? And is there a

935
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: right way to sort of deal with that? Because if

936
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: I don't feel ashamed of being white, am I? Is

937
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: that a bad thing? I think that's a great question.

938
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 1: I mean I tend to feel that shame and guilt

939
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: are just two of the most unproductive emotions possible. Unbelievably

940
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 1: it's same. Yeah. Yeah, they're paralyzing, you know, and we

941
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: really get stuck to them. So I'm interested in, like,

942
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: how can we acknowledge shame that we have but not

943
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,879
Speaker 1: not dwell in it, like not let it stick us,

944
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,400
Speaker 1: you know? I mean I did. I did like the

945
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: ancestry dot com thing a few years ago where I

946
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: found like I got obsessed with my family tree, you know,

947
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,640
Speaker 1: and like tracking all my ancestors and all this stuff,

948
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 1: you know, and I found my I had no idea.

949
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: I found my slave owning great great great grandparents. I

950
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: found their census records and saw the names of the

951
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,280
Speaker 1: enslaved people that they owned on census records. I found

952
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: my ancestors that fought on this for the Confederacy. I

953
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: found ones that fought for the Union too. I mean,

954
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: I had no idea. This was not talked about in

955
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: my family. Talk about shame, yeah, Jesus, you know. But

956
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 1: like I still love my family. I'm proud of the

957
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 1: family members that I know and knew, you know. So

958
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: there's a way in which we can like like I'm

959
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 1: glad that I learned that about my about my history

960
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 1: to know that, you know, and it's like it is

961
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: a shameful part, but like I don't I don't want

962
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 1: to carry that shame. I want to do better, you know,

963
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 1: not be that because because shame is I mean just

964
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: being having shame or being ashamed of yourself or ashamed

965
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,480
Speaker 1: of being white today and today's world just seems you know,

966
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 1: destructive in a way. It's rather just used that feeling

967
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 1: to sort of maybe propel forward rather than get stuck

968
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: in the muck. Because, you know, I think there's a

969
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: lot of people who are, you know, sort of wrestling

970
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: with Do I am I supposed to be ashamed of

971
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: being white? You know? Do I? You know? Because I

972
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm I'm a racist person in my heart?

973
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 1: But should I have shame? You know? It's a it's

974
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: interesting thing I think people might be wrestling with as well,

975
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 1: And so, like what happens if you just decide to, like,

976
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just going to own it. I'm

977
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: going to own the fact that I'm white. I'm going

978
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: to own the fact that that afforded me an enormous

979
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: amount of privilege, and I'm going to talk about it,

980
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: and I'm going to leverage it when I can, and

981
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest about it. I'm not going

982
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: to pretend like I'm not white. I'm not going to

983
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 1: wallow around in my guilt. But why do we think

984
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 1: the word white privilege makes so many white people angry? Well,

985
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: for one, a lot of people take it from a

986
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: very individual place and they feel that they've worked very,

987
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:52,680
Speaker 1: very hard in their life to get what they have

988
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: and where they are, and people feel that it takes

989
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 1: away from the personal work that they've done to achieve

990
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: what they've achieved. And it's very true, like many, many,

991
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: many white people have worked incredibly hard and overcome horrible circumstances. Right,

992
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: White people have a lot of problems, you know, like

993
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: there are you know, people grow up in absolute poverty,

994
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: with addiction, with violence, with all kinds of trauma, and

995
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: so to for someone who has had to overcome a

996
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: lot and you say, well, you have white privilege, they're like,

997
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,879
Speaker 1: the fuck I do, Like, you don't know my childhood, right,

998
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 1: And even if they haven't grown up with extreme trauma,

999
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: still there's an insinuation in the same way that black

1000
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: people still are often told that they got into the

1001
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 1: college that they got into because of affirmative action, right,

1002
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: people who you know, there's a you know, there's a

1003
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: sense for people that I don't have white privilege. I

1004
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 1: did this all on my own. And you may have

1005
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,480
Speaker 1: worked really hard, but guarantee your skin color has gotten

1006
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: new things that it otherwise wouldn't have. Yeah, that's that's

1007
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: very well put because I you know, that's yeah, it's

1008
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: it's just so true. It's just understanding the bigger you know,

1009
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 1: the bigger scope of it all, you know, just the

1010
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: privilege that you have for being a white human. That's

1011
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: it simple. The you know, there's like the bootstraps metaphor

1012
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: that people love to trot out still right, which like

1013
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: makes no sense, but like you know, anybody, anybody, it's

1014
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 1: the American dream is colorblind. Anybody can pull themselves up

1015
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: by their bootstraps. And it's like, well, you had to

1016
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: have the boots in the first place to do that,

1017
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, and if the store that sold the boots

1018
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't let you in, or it wasn't in your neighborhood,

1019
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: or you couldn't get the job to make the money

1020
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: to buy the boots, or you just inherited your boots

1021
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: from your grandparents who owned boots, like you know, that

1022
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: doesn't it's not everybody gets the boots in the first place.

1023
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: And so we can all work hard, and we can

1024
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: acknowledge the work that we've done on our lives to

1025
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: achieve what we've achieved, but we can still accept the

1026
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 1: reality of what our skin color affords us. I get

1027
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 1: emotional talking about, you know, women of color because it's

1028
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: just like an additive. It's you know, not only are

1029
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: you female, but you're a person of color and female,

1030
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: and there's a I think, you know, it's like I

1031
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 1: was having a debate with someone the other day. Or

1032
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: wasn't a debate, it was an argument, and I was

1033
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: infuriated and I was like, you're doing it was the

1034
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: all lives matter versus Black lives matter conversation, and I said,

1035
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: that's like you telling me women's right to vote and

1036
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:30,200
Speaker 1: you looking at me saying it's everyone's right to vote.

1037
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: It is interesting right now, like this thing with today

1038
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,479
Speaker 1: on Instagram, with all of these forty six white women

1039
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:38,800
Speaker 1: giving over their platforms to black women to look up

1040
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: their voices. It's hard for me to imagine forty six

1041
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 1: white men doing that. And I want to say that

1042
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 1: I'm really seeing the people I'm seeing. And this is

1043
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: also because I'm mostly engaged with women in my work,

1044
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: in my life, but I'm not seeing as many white men.

1045
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 1: So Oliver, I appreciate you, you know, but I really

1046
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: am seeing women come to this conversation with more vulnerability

1047
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 1: and willingness. And and I believe that it's also you

1048
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 1: know that in some a lot of ways, white men

1049
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 1: have a lot more to lose in these conversations because

1050
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: you know, you have your extra your extra patriarchal power.

1051
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,240
Speaker 1: So it does it feels like the white man's voice

1052
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: is very guarded right now. It's very specific, and it's

1053
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:28,560
Speaker 1: not really engaging in dialogue. It's more well, it's well, actually,

1054
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 1: you know, statistically, I you know, no authoritative when I

1055
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 1: think that women are approaching the emotional side of the

1056
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: conversation about race with more vulnerability, and you know, and

1057
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: so I mean, I think facts are important as well,

1058
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 1: but but this is really emotional work. And so it'd

1059
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: be good to see more men getting getting sticky and

1060
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,439
Speaker 1: funky and vulnerable with their whiteness as well as their

1061
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: patriarchal power. Kate, what are the things you talked about posting?

1062
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: I liked this. You talked about how we should be.

1063
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 1: You know, it's one thing to do reposts, and it's

1064
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 1: another thing to be like showing your work. Yeah, so

1065
01:00:15,880 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 1: I get a lot of I'm getting a lot of

1066
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:19,680
Speaker 1: questions right now, and I have the past week from

1067
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: white people, almost all women who really want to know.

1068
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: They're a little bit paralyzed by how do I post?

1069
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: What do I post on social media. I want to

1070
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: show my support. I want to show that I'm an

1071
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: ally or I support Black Lives Matter, that I want

1072
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: to be doing this work, but I don't want to

1073
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: get it wrong, you know, And so I guess my

1074
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 1: suggestion has been to write that. You know, I think

1075
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: there's a difference when it comes to posting and sharing

1076
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: on social media. There's a lot of memes out there.

1077
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: There's a lot of content that other people kind of

1078
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 1: made that you can post, and a lot of it's great,

1079
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: but pair that or front load that with a post

1080
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: from your vulnerable self about why this is meaningful to you,

1081
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 1: you know, a post that says, like this is hard

1082
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: for me. I'm worried I will get it wrong. I

1083
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: don't want to mess up, but I accept that I will.

1084
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: And here's what I care about, and here's what I

1085
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: want to say. And then you know, meme away. But

1086
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: like and so when I say show your work, and

1087
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: this is something come out and I have been talking

1088
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:20,320
Speaker 1: about again, a lot of people are buying the books,

1089
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,000
Speaker 1: saying they're going to watch the movie, they want to

1090
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: do the work. And as the way to sustain this

1091
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 1: and to is to make sure people are showing their work.

1092
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: It's like I keep saying, like when my kid has

1093
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 1: to explain in his math homework why two times ten

1094
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: is twenty? Yes, like write a paragraph about why it's

1095
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 1: the case, you know, Like we have to you know,

1096
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: you know, but we have to show our work. So

1097
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,320
Speaker 1: don't just read the book. How do you follow up

1098
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: either in social or in conversations with people saying, you

1099
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: know what I watched thirteenth Like I didn't know this,

1100
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: this and this, Like here's what I'm thinking about. Now,

1101
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: here's the connections I'm making. You know. It's like we

1102
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 1: need people to be doing like white book reports, like Okay,

1103
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: I read Ibram x Kendy's books. So you want to

1104
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: be an anti racist, here's what I'm doing now, So

1105
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:11,320
Speaker 1: showing your work instead of just doing a single post

1106
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 1: about it. And I think the same goes for all

1107
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: these businesses that have been posting giving their solidarity statement.

1108
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 1: It is on them now to consistently show, not every day,

1109
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be constant. How do you show

1110
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: in a sustained way and be transparent with your processes? Yeah,

1111
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: I love that because follow through is key with all

1112
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: of this. You know, voice voices get loud, but then

1113
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: they die down. It's it's it's it's important to This

1114
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: is a big follow through moment and I love that

1115
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 1: idea show. Yeah, and so many people I think, you know,

1116
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 1: are learning these things. I know, I am. I know

1117
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: there's things that in the past when I look at

1118
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: that I've done and I go, oh my god, I

1119
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: had no idea, you know, because I, like Alie said,

1120
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 1: like I never I never took the time to say, oh,

1121
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: who's the CEO of this company? Like who founded this?

1122
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: You know, and and like those are the kinds of

1123
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 1: things that I think are amazing right now where where

1124
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: people in my position could make huge impact and big

1125
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,600
Speaker 1: business by making them accountable and hopefully shifting the way

1126
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 1: that they donate. So here's the thing, Kate, I want

1127
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: to say too, because you mentioned that like this is

1128
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 1: there's stuff that you're doing on a daily basis, right.

1129
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: I think when we talk about showing your work like

1130
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 1: that's you know, hashtag gets on social media, But we

1131
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 1: don't need to show everything we do, right, And so

1132
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people have come to me and asked too,

1133
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: like I really, how do I make sure that like

1134
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 1: my black friends and colleagues know that I support them,

1135
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: that I'm that I'm doing this work. And my answer

1136
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 1: is people will know when they see you doing it. No,

1137
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: it is it is action versus words. So your social

1138
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: media posts are great, but people in your community, whether

1139
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: it's your colleagues, your friends, whoever, people will trust you

1140
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: and they'll know that you support them when they see

1141
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 1: you out there doing the work. So sometimes we do

1142
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,400
Speaker 1: feel anxious and we want to make sure everybody sees it.

1143
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: But those people that you work with in those companies,

1144
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: they will see you modeling that that will have an impact.

1145
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 1: It might not be visible to everybody, but you know

1146
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: people will see it. I know we're talking about big

1147
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: things and big business and that's all amazing stuff, but

1148
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, the small stuff is important too, you know,

1149
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: because there's a there's stepping stones, you know, to build

1150
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: up to something. There's there're starting the job to build

1151
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 1: to the sprint to build too. Sort of. You know,

1152
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: there's momentum that can happen within yourself, and you know

1153
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: that's you know, there's little little victories you know that

1154
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 1: I can have personally that will just continue to build

1155
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: my confidence in speaking out and speaking my truth. One

1156
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 1: thing to keep in mind with that too, though in

1157
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 1: this moment is that for a lot of people of color,

1158
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,360
Speaker 1: and i'd say black women in particular, who have not

1159
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 1: been feeling herd and who've been trying to talk for

1160
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,880
Speaker 1: a long time, it's challenging right now to suddenly have

1161
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: all of these white people who are like, I want

1162
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: to listen. I get it now, I'm here to learn.

1163
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,560
Speaker 1: I want to listen, right. I think that's for me.

1164
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: That's why I'm wanting to have these conversations with white people,

1165
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: because I get that there's this desire to learn. But

1166
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: we also do have to accept that there are going

1167
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: to be people, not everyone at all, but there might

1168
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: be people on your feed or in your community who

1169
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 1: are like hm hm no, not right now, Like I've

1170
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: been talking, you haven't been listening, Like not right away,

1171
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, or go or go great you want to learn, good,

1172
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: go learn, Go learn somewhere else, Yeah, and then come

1173
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: talk to me. So I think there's a little bit

1174
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:42,440
Speaker 1: of like grace to move with and like, you know,

1175
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 1: just it's going to take some not again, all these

1176
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: things that none of us want to be none of

1177
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: us want to be rejected, and it can feel like

1178
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: but but I'm coming to you with good intentions, you know, so,

1179
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 1: but we have to keep in mind the harm that's

1180
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: been done for so long as we have refused to listen.

1181
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 1: There's centuries and decades of beautiful literature and film and music,

1182
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,200
Speaker 1: and there's novels, and there's poetry, and there's plays, and

1183
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,440
Speaker 1: there's nonfiction books that just tell us all the stuff

1184
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: that we need to know. So you know, there's definitely

1185
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: people to be listening to on social media, paying attention

1186
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:19,479
Speaker 1: to learning from, but there's it's like it is all

1187
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:27,720
Speaker 1: out there for us. Well, this was incredibly overdue for

1188
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,919
Speaker 1: Oliver and I. We've been sort of like these last

1189
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:33,520
Speaker 1: couple weeks sort of trying to figure out, you know,

1190
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: the people that we really wanted to talk to about

1191
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: these questions that we had or help us. And thank you.

1192
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: But I also just want to thank W. Camal Bell

1193
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:50,160
Speaker 1: for mentioning your name because I think him too, it's

1194
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 1: maybe very busy this past week. It's great, it's really awesome.

1195
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 1: And I really heard him when he was talking about, like,

1196
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, to let you talk to Kate about these things,

1197
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 1: and I I so, you know, thanks to W. Kamal

1198
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 1: for introducing us to you and yeah, this was a

1199
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: really great conversation. All right, Well, thank you so much.

1200
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:14,800
Speaker 1: It was amazing. Thank you guys, thanks for being open

1201
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:17,960
Speaker 1: to this great work. Thank you, thank you, Kate, thank you,

1202
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:24,160
Speaker 1: thank you. Sibling Revelry is executive Grouse by Kate Hudson,

1203
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 1: Olira Hudson and Simsarna. Supervising producer is Alison. President, editor

1204
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:33,640
Speaker 1: is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark Hudson aka Uncle Mike.