1
00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,800
Speaker 1: Hey mesties, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright side, I'll

2
00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,560
Speaker 1: have what she's having. As our week of Love and

3
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: Relationships continue, we're celebrating the Queen of rom comms, Nora Efron.

4
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 1: Joining us is writer Alana Kaplin. She has a brand

5
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,800
Speaker 1: new book, Nora Efron at the Movies, So we're going

6
00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,000
Speaker 1: to dig into Nora's cultural significance, her inspirations, and the

7
00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,480
Speaker 1: lasting impact that she's had on fans around the world.

8
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, February thirteenth.

9
00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,280
Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe, I'm Simone Boyce, and this is the

10
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:39,080
Speaker 2: bright side from Hello Sunshine, Danielle. Okay, when it comes

11
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,000
Speaker 2: to Nora Efron, We've got When Harry met Sally, You've

12
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,959
Speaker 2: got Male Sleepless in Seattle, Julia and Julia. I mean,

13
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,120
Speaker 2: the list goes on. Okay, what comes to mind for

14
00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,839
Speaker 2: you when you think of Nora Efron, either books or movies.

15
00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:52,040
Speaker 2: Do you have a core memory?

16
00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:52,720
Speaker 3: For sure?

17
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 1: The first thing that comes to my mind is Harry

18
00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 1: met Sally. It's just truly an iconic film. And I

19
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 1: say that because it has some of the best dialogue

20
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,319
Speaker 1: in realm com history, and it was a film that

21
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 1: at the time explored the nuance of relationships like friendship

22
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,720
Speaker 1: and timing and emotional honesty in a way that I

23
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: think if you watch that movie today, it resonates decades later,

24
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,360
Speaker 1: And you can't say that about a lot of realm comms,

25
00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,360
Speaker 1: Like there's an expiration date on rom coms, because they

26
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,560
Speaker 1: kind of capture love as it was seen and experienced

27
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,559
Speaker 1: in a moment in time.

28
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's so well said. I also think what

29
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,399
Speaker 2: sets her films apart is the lore that has been

30
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,360
Speaker 2: created around it. Like when I think of when Harry

31
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,800
Speaker 2: mt Sally think of Katz's Deli and like going to

32
00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 2: New York and actually physically getting to go see it.

33
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,040
Speaker 2: I think of the Serendipity Cafe in New York City,

34
00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 2: which is where they filmed a lot of You've Got Mail.

35
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,080
Speaker 2: So it's fun that you can actually kind of still

36
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,240
Speaker 2: live in and recreate these moments that we've all adored

37
00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 2: on screen for years. That's such a good point.

38
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: It's kind of like how you want to go see

39
00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 1: the Cafe of the Friends cast, like it just meant

40
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 1: so much to the film or the TV show, and

41
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 1: you can't say that about a ton of movies. Totally

42
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,760
Speaker 1: Nora's work has such an eternal quality, and I think

43
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,120
Speaker 1: one of the reasons is that her films don't just

44
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 1: talk about finding love, or her work doesn't talk about

45
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,920
Speaker 1: just finding love, but it's about figuring out who you

46
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 1: are on the way there too. So I want to

47
00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,160
Speaker 1: get into it all with our guest today joining us

48
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: as writer and journalist Alana Kaplan and for her new

49
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 1: book Nora Efron at the Movies, Alana dug into Nora's

50
00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:30,400
Speaker 1: cultural significance, her style, the way that Nora redefined love

51
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,680
Speaker 1: and relationships for women.

52
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,360
Speaker 3: Let's bring her in.

53
00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: Okay, Alana Kathlin, Welcome to the bright Side.

54
00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.

55
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,320
Speaker 1: We are big Nora Efrin fans over here. Why are

56
00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: you a Nora Efrin fan? Why did you want to

57
00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,239
Speaker 1: be entrenched in her universe?

58
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:49,960
Speaker 4: I think that you know.

59
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 5: I grew up delusionally thinking that my life was going

60
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 5: to a rom com.

61
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 4: I wanted it to be a rom com.

62
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,160
Speaker 5: Rom Coms were such an inherent part of like who

63
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,600
Speaker 5: I was. And You've Got Mail was the first Noraphron

64
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,720
Speaker 5: movie ever saw. I used to watch TBS and TNT marathons.

65
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:10,000
Speaker 5: They would do romcom marathons, and I absolutely fell in

66
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:14,200
Speaker 5: love with the chemistry and the storytelling, and it felt

67
00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,440
Speaker 5: like a great fit for me, especially with my background.

68
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,240
Speaker 3: There's this great line in your book you write.

69
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,519
Speaker 1: Whenever I watch any Nora Efren movie, I can't help

70
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,320
Speaker 1: but think about how nobody did it like her and

71
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,680
Speaker 1: no one can follow her. First of all, why can

72
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 1: no one follow her? And how did she do it

73
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,600
Speaker 1: so differently? What was so revolutionary about her work?

74
00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 3: Her work was.

75
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,960
Speaker 5: So singular because of her voice and her perspective, and

76
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 5: you know, not everyone can master funny, sharp writing and

77
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 5: fully fleshed out characters. There's an acidity to the way

78
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,640
Speaker 5: that she writes. I was going to say, just like

79
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 5: in her essays, she really was able to write like

80
00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 5: your funny best friend. You probably did it, know, Nora,

81
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 5: but it felt like you did every time you read it.

82
00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 5: You know, I feel bad about my neck or any

83
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 5: of her other essays, especially about aging. I felt like

84
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,960
Speaker 5: that felt really relatable to a lot of people. Before

85
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:18,720
Speaker 5: Nora's work, a lot of female heroines were much more polished,

86
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,320
Speaker 5: and when Noura wrote women, she wrote them with the

87
00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 5: female gaze in mind, and I feel like she was

88
00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:32,039
Speaker 5: able to see women as messy, complex, high maintenance, at

89
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:38,920
Speaker 5: times funny and you know, not virginal. And it really

90
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 5: changed the trajectory of how women are portrayed on screen.

91
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,720
Speaker 5: And also, you know how we talk about sexuality in

92
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:48,479
Speaker 5: rom coms.

93
00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 1: It sounds like from what you're saying too, that up

94
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 1: until Nora's work, rom coms were a little bit more

95
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,280
Speaker 1: trite or they fit into this very particular mold, and

96
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,600
Speaker 1: she just had a very different of writing.

97
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that to this day, when

98
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 5: you hear people talk about Nora Efron, they often will

99
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,159
Speaker 5: immediately speak about the writing. And when Harry met Sally,

100
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,360
Speaker 5: just how clever it was. Just the familiarity between the characters,

101
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,039
Speaker 5: and so many other directors and screenwriters wanted to be

102
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 5: like Nora Efron, like John Turtletab who made While You

103
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 5: Were Sleeping, wanted to make his Nora Fron movie. And

104
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,760
Speaker 5: you see allusions to Richard Curtis's work and taking cues

105
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 5: from her, And I think it's interesting to see how

106
00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,480
Speaker 5: much she's impacted the genre.

107
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,800
Speaker 2: So Alano, when the opportunity to write this book presented itself,

108
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 2: it's called Nora Efron at the Movies. Where did you

109
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 2: start with your research. Who did you talk to?

110
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 5: The first thing I did was watch all of her movies.

111
00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,839
Speaker 5: I hadn't seen all of her movies. I've seen a

112
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 5: lot of the ones you've probably heard of. And then

113
00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,360
Speaker 5: I saw someone you might not have. But I didn't

114
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,680
Speaker 5: know she had a hand in certain projects. I didn't

115
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,720
Speaker 5: know that Mixed Nuts existed and she was a part

116
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 5: of it. I didn't know about Silkwood at that time.

117
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,799
Speaker 5: I didn't realize that she wrote that with Alice Arlin.

118
00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:14,159
Speaker 5: I wanted to get a sense of how her career

119
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 5: trajectory changed, how her voice changed, how she transitioned from genres,

120
00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,720
Speaker 5: and you know, like when she kind of wanted to

121
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 5: not be boxed in as a rom com queen versus

122
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 5: trying to venture into other genres. I bought every book

123
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,839
Speaker 5: that Nora had ever written. I read every essay she's

124
00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 5: ever written, every article she's written. I think it was

125
00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,600
Speaker 5: interesting to kind of separate the topic she covered, you know,

126
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 5: aging or fashion or food, and how much heart went

127
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,760
Speaker 5: into those pieces and how much of her we got

128
00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,719
Speaker 5: to know through those pieces. Additionally, she was also a playwright,

129
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 5: so I read those plays, and you know, I think

130
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 5: the most fascinating part about it is just learning why

131
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 5: she was so interested in making certain plays and they

132
00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,320
Speaker 5: stood the test of time, or like how her fixations

133
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:21,040
Speaker 5: became plays. Her topic choices were always really interesting, and

134
00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:22,640
Speaker 5: I wanted to explore that.

135
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,440
Speaker 4: The other part of the research came.

136
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,440
Speaker 5: I emailed and reached out to as many people as

137
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:34,120
Speaker 5: you can possibly think of, main characters, sporting characters, collaborators, friends,

138
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 5: everybody in Castcrow. Did you talk to Meg Ryan? Not

139
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 5: for a lack of trying, I didn't. It's funny is

140
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,800
Speaker 5: I was actually assigned a profile in Meg Ryan while

141
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,600
Speaker 5: I was writing the book, and she didn't end up

142
00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 5: wanting to do it.

143
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,240
Speaker 4: It was for like the Washington.

144
00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:59,040
Speaker 2: Post, Alana, I'm so interested in your personal journey as

145
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,240
Speaker 2: you were writing this bookook because at the beginning of

146
00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 2: our conversation you mentioned that you kind of had this

147
00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,640
Speaker 2: idea in your mind of how your life would go

148
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:12,600
Speaker 2: based on Nora Efron stories and movies. So what was

149
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,440
Speaker 2: happening in your life at the time that you were

150
00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,080
Speaker 2: writing this book, and how did you reconcile the life

151
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 2: you thought you were going to have with the life

152
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,640
Speaker 2: that you're living now, and how did you filter that

153
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 2: through the lens of Nora Ephron's work.

154
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:28,680
Speaker 4: That's a great question.

155
00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 5: So I got engaged in twenty twenty, like about a

156
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 5: month and a half into the pandemic, and my husband

157
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 5: and I were planning our wedding through a big chunk

158
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,079
Speaker 5: of me writing this book. I actually think my draft

159
00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,160
Speaker 5: was my first full draft, was due before my wedding,

160
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,760
Speaker 5: if not like a couple months later. I don't remember

161
00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,080
Speaker 5: the timeline, but I remember I was like rushing to

162
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,679
Speaker 5: finish that and also planning my wedding, and it was

163
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 5: just constant.

164
00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:58,480
Speaker 4: It was chaotic.

165
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,679
Speaker 5: I always fantasized about my wedding and I wanted it

166
00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:07,600
Speaker 5: to be this like magical day. And I was like, okay,

167
00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 5: like when is the magic gonna happen? Because I feel

168
00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,600
Speaker 5: like I'm losing my mind. And what's funny is the

169
00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 5: week of our wedding we were like so stressed out.

170
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,000
Speaker 5: We even like argued like a day before because the

171
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 5: place cards went missing and we went on like a

172
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,800
Speaker 5: four hour hunt throughout the hotel for them. And then

173
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,880
Speaker 5: as I was walking down the aisle, I felt like

174
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,080
Speaker 5: I was like watching myself from Afar. I felt like

175
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,199
Speaker 5: I was in a movie. As I was walking on

176
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 5: aisle like I started out as a music writer, so

177
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,040
Speaker 5: I was very specific about like the music choices and

178
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,280
Speaker 5: just everything about it. It was perfect and romantic. It

179
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,920
Speaker 5: was not how I thought it would go, but it

180
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,200
Speaker 5: was everything I ever imagined.

181
00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,360
Speaker 3: You got your rom calm wedding.

182
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,240
Speaker 4: I did get my rom calm wedding.

183
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,280
Speaker 5: And it doesn't mean it wasn't hard before and it

184
00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,800
Speaker 5: hasn't been hard after. But this is all to say

185
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,360
Speaker 5: that I don't think Nora Efron's movies are not full

186
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,080
Speaker 5: of their challenges. It's not as straightforward as the rom

187
00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 5: comms that came before her. There are always obstacles, so

188
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,840
Speaker 5: there can be a happy ending, but there can also

189
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 5: be obstacles before and after. And I think that my

190
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:23,240
Speaker 5: experience getting married and planning the wedding echoed that sentiment.

191
00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 1: I want to dig deeper on that because that is

192
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 1: a pillar of the Nora Efrin rom com She had

193
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,320
Speaker 1: this female character, often played by Meg Ryan, that was

194
00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 1: a heroine, meaning she had a hero's journey, there were obstacles.

195
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,280
Speaker 1: Were there any other characteristics that stand out to you

196
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,200
Speaker 1: as a quintessential Nora Efrin character a female lead?

197
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,440
Speaker 5: To be precise, I always feel like their career driven

198
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:57,080
Speaker 5: and they're not just vying for the male attention. I

199
00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:01,840
Speaker 5: think that they don't want to settle really well rounded,

200
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,880
Speaker 5: and that's what made them feel like they were still aspirational,

201
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,520
Speaker 5: like you still wanted to kind of have this maybe

202
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,040
Speaker 5: you wanted like this friendship turn romance like when Harry

203
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 5: met Sally. It also felt attainable too, So it was aspirational,

204
00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,080
Speaker 5: but it was attainable watching these characters develop.

205
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:25,839
Speaker 2: We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be

206
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 2: right back with Alana Caplin. And we're back with journalist

207
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:40,000
Speaker 2: and author Alana Kaplin. You were talking about your wedding

208
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:44,160
Speaker 2: and the obstacles that inevitably come up with such a

209
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 2: big event, as thinking about rom coms and how we

210
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 2: we know how it's going to end for most of them,

211
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,720
Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of them, but we don't know what's

212
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,840
Speaker 2: going to happen along the way necessarily. And Nora had

213
00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,720
Speaker 2: this superpower when it comes to depict the act of

214
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,760
Speaker 2: falling in love. What do you if you had to

215
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 2: pinpoint it, what do you think her signature is in

216
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:07,760
Speaker 2: that respect?

217
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,000
Speaker 5: I think because there's so much tension along the way,

218
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,679
Speaker 5: there's she you know, there's the battle of the sexes

219
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 5: element that she plays in. She was a huge like

220
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 5: pride and prejudiced and Jane Austen fan. So it's fun

221
00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,000
Speaker 5: to see those little elements shine through, like particularly and

222
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,240
Speaker 5: like You've Got Mail, And after all of the bickering

223
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,600
Speaker 5: and the opinionated female characters have their moment, they get

224
00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,280
Speaker 5: a happy ending on their terms.

225
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,680
Speaker 1: I think, out of all of the movie the Nora movies,

226
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,400
Speaker 1: I loved, When Harry Met Sally is the penultimate. To me,

227
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,520
Speaker 1: Like I think about realm comms today and I think

228
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 1: so many of them came from that film.

229
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,640
Speaker 5: I totally agree with you. I mean, I feel like

230
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 5: that movie is the blueprint for so many other rom coms.

231
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 5: If you look at like Leslie Hedlin Sleeping with other

232
00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,360
Speaker 5: people like that movie looks, it looks like its own

233
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,360
Speaker 5: version of When Harry Met Sally. Visually, I think a

234
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 5: couple of years ago, JABOOKI Young White Start in Love

235
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,960
Speaker 5: a New York and that was like a more like

236
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,880
Speaker 5: a digital like love in the digital era story that

237
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,640
Speaker 5: was definitely very influenced by When Harry Met Sally. There

238
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 5: are tons of directors and writers who have referenced that movie.

239
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,960
Speaker 5: You know, into all the boys I've loved before. For instance,

240
00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,480
Speaker 5: like the epistolary storytelling element like that to me is

241
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,560
Speaker 5: very Nora. I mean more Sleepless in Seattle, but like

242
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,000
Speaker 5: it's I think, if I'm remembering this correctly, Jenny Hahn

243
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 5: actually moved. There's an article where Jenny han said she

244
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,439
Speaker 5: moved to New York to work in a bookstore and

245
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:52,800
Speaker 5: like hope to fall in love because of Nora Afron.

246
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,400
Speaker 3: She was really such a force.

247
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,600
Speaker 1: She was a journalist, she was a screenwriter, a novelist,

248
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 1: a pretty or a director, and she really achieved so

249
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 1: much at a time when it was much harder for

250
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,920
Speaker 1: women to hold any of those titles, let alone rite

251
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,320
Speaker 1: for the screen. What do you think made her so

252
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,320
Speaker 1: successful across so many industries.

253
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 5: I mean, I think that it helped that she grew

254
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 5: up with having screenwriter parents and kind of being immersed

255
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 5: in the industry to some degree from a young age.

256
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,840
Speaker 5: You know, her voice was just really versatile. Like as

257
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,520
Speaker 5: someone who's a journalist or writer myself, I struggle with

258
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 5: writing about myself. I think that it's really a skill

259
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 5: for people to be able to do that, do it

260
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 5: well and be able to like storytell at the same time,

261
00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 5: and she had a knack for doing that in all forms.

262
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,200
Speaker 5: I think that her journalism career is what helped her

263
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,960
Speaker 5: really like find the confidence to work in film, and

264
00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 5: you know, like her screen writing gave her the launching

265
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 5: pad to be able to eventually direct. So I think

266
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 5: it's interesting that she really kept challenging herself.

267
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,280
Speaker 1: If we think of her as a character in her

268
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,120
Speaker 1: own story, as a female heroine who faced obstacles, what

269
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,160
Speaker 1: sticks out to you.

270
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,440
Speaker 5: I think the rejection is not as straightforward in terms

271
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,280
Speaker 5: of career. I think she faced a lot of rejection

272
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,480
Speaker 5: when it came to having critical misfires. Like while her

273
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 5: rom coms were really successful, she struggled when it came

274
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 5: to making some of the more the black comedies or

275
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 5: the slapstick films. It's hard when you've been so successful

276
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,200
Speaker 5: at something to not be pigeonholed.

277
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,440
Speaker 3: Did she try to make those types of films?

278
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, so, I mean brutally honest, Like Lucky Numbers is

279
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,880
Speaker 5: one of the worst movies I've ever seen, Like it's

280
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 5: very forgettable. I remember when it came out because it

281
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 5: was I think it was like two thousand when it

282
00:15:58,960 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 5: came out.

283
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:01,240
Speaker 4: And I I thought it was going to be really good.

284
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 5: I remember I hadn't watched in years, and I watched

285
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 5: it for the writing of this book, and it's like,

286
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 5: maybe it's not as bad as I remember. And because

287
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,240
Speaker 5: it has like John Travolta, Lisa Koter, Michael Moore's in it,

288
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 5: there's a lot of people in this movie and it

289
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,040
Speaker 5: is just very unwatchable. And there's been article since, like

290
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 5: from the screenwriter that I just think she wasn't like

291
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,480
Speaker 5: the right fit for this kind of movie, and like

292
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 5: that said, like I have to admire that she wanted

293
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,880
Speaker 5: to try these things or had the opportunity to, because

294
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 5: I don't think everyone gets the opportunity to try these things.

295
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 5: It gets the budget to try these things in Hollywood,

296
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 5: especially women or women of color.

297
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,120
Speaker 2: And men are given permission to fail, but women aren't

298
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,920
Speaker 2: at the box office exactly.

299
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,600
Speaker 5: And then from a personal standpoint, I feel like Heartburn,

300
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 5: her autobiographical novel, is all about Rejection, which is an

301
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 5: incredible movie too, starring Meryl Streep and Jack Nicholson, but

302
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 5: it's about the dissolution of her marriage and how her

303
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 5: husband not named Carl Bernstein in the book, but Carl

304
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,640
Speaker 5: Bernstein cheated on her, but it's a breakup rom com

305
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,919
Speaker 5: film to me. To me, it's an honorary member of

306
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 5: the rom com trio because at the end she gets

307
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,960
Speaker 5: a happy ending, but she's starting over on her own

308
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,320
Speaker 5: and as a single mom, and I think the ending

309
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 5: is really beautiful. So I feel like, you know, she

310
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,399
Speaker 5: handled rejection in a way that I feel like a

311
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,719
Speaker 5: lot of people admire, Like, if this man cheated on

312
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 5: you, you wrote an entire novel and then autobiographical novel, and

313
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,320
Speaker 5: then you also wrote a movie that he would need

314
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 5: to see everywhere by a movie that starred two of

315
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 5: Hollywood's biggest actors.

316
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 2: Did Nora think of her work as feminist.

317
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:55,760
Speaker 4: I think she did.

318
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,359
Speaker 5: I do think that the thing about Nora's work is,

319
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,959
Speaker 5: while there are feminist elements to it, especially you know,

320
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 5: in the way that she talked about sexuality, the orgasm

321
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 5: scene and when Harry met Sally, the independence that a

322
00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,920
Speaker 5: lot of her female heroines had, there are a lot

323
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 5: of blind spots when you're looking at her work. There

324
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 5: are a few people of color in her films. I

325
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 5: think she was an expert at white feminism. I don't

326
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 5: think that it was intersectional and I think that her

327
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,360
Speaker 5: work is very necessary for the genre, but there are

328
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,320
Speaker 5: other people who I think she was progressive at the time,

329
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 5: but I think a lot of people. There are several

330
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,760
Speaker 5: screenwriters and directors now who are pushing the narrative forward

331
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,639
Speaker 5: and making it more inclusive.

332
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:47,560
Speaker 2: I'm curious where you feel Norah's voice in your life now?

333
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 2: What is her relevance in your life now?

334
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,440
Speaker 5: Uh, this kind of sounds like silly, but I've been

335
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 5: really distraught because I have like necklines right.

336
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,240
Speaker 2: Now, I'm touching my own neck.

337
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,439
Speaker 5: No, Like I don't know if it's from technak or

338
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 5: just because I'm like getting older and thirty five, So

339
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,400
Speaker 5: I keep thinking about her.

340
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 4: I feel bad about my neck.

341
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,199
Speaker 5: I feel like the aging essays tend to hit a

342
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,080
Speaker 5: little bit harder as you get older. That's kind of

343
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 5: where I've been thinking about her lately.

344
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 4: I mean, I always.

345
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 5: Find comfort in her rom coms, always in the fall

346
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 5: and winter. That's like when I come back to her.

347
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 5: So that's kind of where I'm I am with her.

348
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:35,199
Speaker 5: I definitely I've been immersed in Nora world for a

349
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 5: while now, so I feel like I've been, you know,

350
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,640
Speaker 5: like easing back into it a little bit.

351
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 2: I think that's a great answer.

352
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,480
Speaker 1: It's time for another short break, but don't go anywhere.

353
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,159
Speaker 1: We'll be right back to our conversation with journalist and

354
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 1: author Alana Kaplin.

355
00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 3: And we're back with Alana Kaplin.

356
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,399
Speaker 2: Okay, we have a quick game to send us out. Lana,

357
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 2: all right, we are gonna play Shag Mary Kill Love

358
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 2: It but applied to the Nora Ephron cinematic universe. Okay,

359
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,400
Speaker 2: so here are your choices. When Harry met Sally, You've

360
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 2: Got Mail and Sleepless in Seattle, which movie are you

361
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 2: marrying You've Got Mail? That's the one you want to

362
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 2: spend eternity with?

363
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 1: I do.

364
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 4: It's my favorite. It's my favorite Nora movie.

365
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 2: Okay, why tell us why?

366
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,679
Speaker 5: I mean really, despite the fact that Joe Fox is

367
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 5: putting Kathleen Kelly out of business, Tom Hanks and his

368
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:44,360
Speaker 5: chemistry and that with Megrine is like unparalleled. The end

369
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 5: when he delivers this apology and essentially in a proposal

370
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 5: and he asks her like why she won't forgive him,

371
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 5: and he's like, oh, how I wish she would. I

372
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 5: get chills every time that line comes on. I have

373
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 5: watched that movie for twenty plus years of my life

374
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 5: and it still happens.

375
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 4: I like, I just.

376
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 2: Melt, Okay, which movie is a perfect one night stand?

377
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,280
Speaker 2: You're like, Okay, I've seen it once. I don't know

378
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 2: that I need to see it again and again.

379
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 5: Okay, So when Harry Matt Sally one night Stand, I

380
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 5: mean also because it's just like obviously, like right, feels

381
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 5: fitting for when Harry Matt Sally, I think I just

382
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 5: generally don't like Harry.

383
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 4: And he's quite chauvinistic.

384
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,120
Speaker 5: But again, I love that movie, like the characters, Marie's incredible, Like,

385
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,320
Speaker 5: there's so much about that movie I love. I just

386
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 5: am You've got male girl at heart.

387
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,160
Speaker 2: So Sleepless in Seattle is that's the one getting the acts?

388
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 4: It is?

389
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 5: There are aspects of Sleepless and Seattle that I enjoy,

390
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 5: and the concept I like.

391
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 4: I don't like how Meg and Tom aren't.

392
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 5: Really ever in the film together aside from the or

393
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 5: like they're only in the film together for like two

394
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 5: and one is the end. I also feel like it's

395
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 5: a bit stockersh the whole concept. It's not my favorite

396
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 5: of the rom com trio. That said, I do enjoy

397
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 5: it when it's on and there's like a lot of

398
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 5: beautiful elements to it.

399
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: It's funny when you rewatch the movies from our childhood

400
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 2: and you're like, that doesn't that doesn't quite track for me,

401
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: that doesn't quite add up.

402
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:25,120
Speaker 1: I kind of like that Rita Wilson and Tom Hanks

403
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: are in the film together. It's not the film that

404
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,399
Speaker 1: they met on, but it's fun to see real life

405
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: relationships on screen and especially in hindsight.

406
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I will say, like, I think one of

407
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 5: the best, one of the best, if not the best

408
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 5: moment of the film is Rita Wilson doing her like

409
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 5: teary monologue retelling of an affair show Remember, is just

410
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 5: amazing cinema.

411
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 3: Absolutely.

412
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: It's also interesting to me how Norah utilizes technology of

413
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: the time as part of her storytelling, often like this

414
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: was radio, obviously email. Like, I do think she was

415
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: very of the moment in her storytelling.

416
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I feel like she sometimes was ahead of her

417
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,679
Speaker 5: time or a little bit more on the pulse than

418
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 5: other people who were like maybe denying that like email

419
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 5: was going to take over. I wonder how she'd feel,

420
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 5: I mean, I wonder how she'd feel about other aspects

421
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 5: of technology now.

422
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 4: But alas I.

423
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,680
Speaker 1: Know if she was alive, we might get a movie

424
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 1: about texting her, dating apps, dating apps, texting AI.

425
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 2: Well, Alana, thank you so much for coming on the

426
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: bright Side, and congratulations on your book Naura Efron at

427
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 2: the Movies.

428
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me, and thank you

429
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 5: for doing this today.

430
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: Thanks Alana.

431
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: Alana Kaplan is a journalist and author of the book

432
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: Nora Efron at the Movies.

433
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: That's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're back to popping

434
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 2: off with our bright Side be see and very own

435
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 2: showrunner Tim Paalazola. Join the conversation using hashtag the bright

436
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: Side and connect with us on social media at Hello

437
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: Sunshine on Instagram and at the bright Side Pod on

438
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,719
Speaker 2: TikTok oh, and feel free to tag us at Simone

439
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: Boyce and at Danielle Robe.

440
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: Listen and follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app,

441
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

442
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.