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Speaker 1: Do you have opinions that you feel you can express.

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Speaker 1: no agenda. Join us at snippy to get the discussion

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Speaker 1: rolling now. Here's a highlight from Coast to coast am

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Speaker 1: on iHeart Radio, Welcome back to Coast to coast. Let

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Speaker 1: me share a Jerry Garcia quote with you. What we're

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Speaker 1: thinking about is a peaceful planet. We're not thinking about

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Speaker 1: anything else. We're not thinking about any kind of power.

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Speaker 1: We're not thinking about any kind of struggles. We're not

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Speaker 1: thinking about revolution or war or any of that. That's

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Speaker 1: not what we want. Nobody wants to get hurt. Nobody

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Speaker 1: wants to hurt anybody. We'd all like to be able

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Speaker 1: to live an uncluttered life, a simple life, a good life,

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Speaker 1: and think about moving the whole human race ahead a

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Speaker 1: step of a step or a few steps. Kind of

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Speaker 1: ironic given what happened to the members the core group

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Speaker 1: of the Grateful Dead after the death of Jerry Garcia

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Speaker 1: in August of nine. Joel Selvin dives deep into the

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Speaker 1: Machiavellian power struggle within the Grateful Dead after their philosophical leader,

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Speaker 1: Jerry Garcia, died suddenly in August of Joel is an

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Speaker 1: award winning journalist who has covered pop music for the

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Speaker 1: San Francisco Chronicle since nineteen seventy. He's the author of

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Speaker 1: the best selling Summer of Love and co author with

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Speaker 1: Sammy Hagar of the number one New York Times bestseller Read.

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Speaker 1: He's written twelve other books about pop music, including his

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Speaker 1: latest Fair The Well, the final chapter of The Grateful

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Speaker 1: Dead's Long Strange Trip. In fact, that Joel's co author

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Speaker 1: is Pamela Little. Joel. Welcome back to Coast to Coast.

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Speaker 1: How are you excellent? So good to be back. It's

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Speaker 1: great speaking with you again. You were kind enough to

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Speaker 1: speak with to me for an episode of my podcast,

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Speaker 1: The Rock and Roll Twilight Zone on Altamont. And I

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Speaker 1: learned so much from talking to you, and uh, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm not blowing smoke here. I mean you

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Speaker 1: truly are one of the deans of you know, in

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Speaker 1: terms of chronicling rock and roll. You were there, you know,

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Speaker 1: from the early days. I think you attended your first

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Speaker 1: Grateful Dead concert, like at the beginning nineteen sixty six

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Speaker 1: or something, wasn't it, Uh April nineteen sixty six. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they'd just gotten back from Los Angeles. They were on

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Speaker 1: a teen dance bill with a group from Sacramento called

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Speaker 1: the Union Jackson. It was so early in the psychedelic scene.

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Speaker 1: It was it was like a moment in Berkeley, all

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Speaker 1: the way across the Bridge from San Francisco, and they

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Speaker 1: were trying this out. And I remember that they had

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Speaker 1: a kind of like a sort of lean to light

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Speaker 1: show and they borrowed an opaque projector remember those old

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Speaker 1: opaque projectors that your teacher used to put books in

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Speaker 1: the And they had a bowl of colored jello under

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Speaker 1: the opaque jello and that was the light show. That

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Speaker 1: was the light show that I vaguely remember the band

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Speaker 1: from that night. But you know, at that point in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco, you couldn't go to rock shows without running

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Speaker 1: into the Grateful Dead. They were on every bill, they

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Speaker 1: were at every concert. They were just around owned. They

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Speaker 1: were the home team. Now were the Mary Pranksters around?

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Speaker 1: Was that still part of the kool Aid ascid test?

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Speaker 1: Or was? Or was LSD? Had it been banned in

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Speaker 1: California by that time? So the kool Aid acid tests

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Speaker 1: the uh, they're in late sixty Uh. Most of them

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Speaker 1: took place down in the South Bay. They had one

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Speaker 1: up in Mirror Beach, up in Marin County, which is

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Speaker 1: where they met Allsley. UH. And they had a couple

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Speaker 1: in San Francisco. And then they held the Acid the

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Speaker 1: Trips Festival in January of sixty six, and that's sort

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Speaker 1: of a starting point for the whole San Francisco seene

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Speaker 1: the January UH, Bill Graham started producing concerts with the

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Speaker 1: Jefferson Airplane at the Fillmore and cooks over messenger Service,

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Speaker 1: and Big Brother in the Holding Company started playing UH

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Speaker 1: in public um so it rolled out from there. The

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Speaker 1: Dead became the Dead in about December of sixty five.

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Speaker 1: They were the Warlocks before that, and they were just

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Speaker 1: part and parcel of the of the whole deal. They

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Speaker 1: were they were UH in everyday event on the San

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Speaker 1: Francisco rock scene. Now, I don't want to dwell in

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Speaker 1: the past because this this book is post It's what

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Speaker 1: happened to The Grateful Dead's core the four after the

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Speaker 1: death of Jerry Garcia. But I gotta ask you because

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Speaker 1: you mentioned Owsley Stanley, the third I believe, the grandson

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Speaker 1: of a Kentucky senator. I mean, this guy wanted to

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Speaker 1: you know, he had aspirations of becoming a ballerina, and

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Speaker 1: he was a pilot and he did everything. Yeah, would

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Speaker 1: there have been The Grateful Dead without Owsley Stanley. So

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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned that he is a huge

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Speaker 1: UH factor in the design of the Grateful Dead in

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Speaker 1: the in the conceptualization, in the actualization Owsley, who's best known,

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Speaker 1: of course for being the first private party to synthesize

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Speaker 1: lsd Uh. He really is also a revolutionary acoustician, you know,

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Speaker 1: sound engineer. Uh. He was the first person to create monitors,

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Speaker 1: the wall of sound. Well, the wall sound was later,

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Speaker 1: but the I mean monitors, man, you know, so you

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Speaker 1: can hear yourself sing little those little speakers that they

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Speaker 1: turned around and face the band. And he was also

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Speaker 1: the first guy to mix a concert in stereo. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, no, honestly was was it was?

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Speaker 1: It was mad cap genius, an amazing guy and extraordinary personality.

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Speaker 1: And of course the lsd Uh Empire made a lot

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Speaker 1: of dough, so he was. He funded an awful lot

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Speaker 1: of The Grateful Dead's early enterprises. He was their benefactor

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Speaker 1: right now. I mean you you've insisted all along despite

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how many concerts of the

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Speaker 1: Dead you've attended, but you were there in sixty six.

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Speaker 1: But you say you're not a deadhead. Explain yeah, well

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Speaker 1: you know, um, I'm not really a dead head. I

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Speaker 1: remember those guys they showed up on the on the

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Speaker 1: public transportation system at the Fillmore shows, and they danced

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Speaker 1: over the side with their hands over their heads and everything.

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Speaker 1: And then and anytime the Dead was on the bill,

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Speaker 1: there was a contingent of those people. Uh. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's a culty behavior. I've never been to two Dead

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Speaker 1: shows in a row. I've never whirled in the hallway.

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Speaker 1: I've certainly taken L S D and and gone to

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Speaker 1: Dead concerts, but uh, I just never followed them that way.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, as the pop music reporter

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Speaker 1: for the San Francisco Chronicle, I saw the Grateful Dead

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Speaker 1: as a big time story and and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure they were adequately covered in the paper. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, pretty much saw their major local concerts and

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Speaker 1: and and covered all the large events in their in

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Speaker 1: their career from the nine. Had had Jerry Garcia not past,

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Speaker 1: would they have just kept going. Well, they had a

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Speaker 1: tour book that September. Uh, they had sixty people working

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Speaker 1: for them, and uh, everybody was living the good life

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Speaker 1: and very accustomed to it. There was a few outlier

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Speaker 1: voices in the early nineties going, hey, you know this

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Speaker 1: sixty seventy concerts of years pretty hard on Garcia. Are

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Speaker 1: you sure you want to keep pushing him this hard?

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Speaker 1: But nobody paid any attention to that, and uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was. His health was in very bad shape all

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Speaker 1: through the nineties. He almost died in the eighties. It

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Speaker 1: was in a coma for a number of days and

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Speaker 1: came out of it. It was a year before he

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Speaker 1: was really back on his feet, and he never really recovered. Uh,

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Speaker 1: went back on drugs. His his weight blew up. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He was a mess, and I don't think he was happy.

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Speaker 1: I think he uh was, you know, felt closed in

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Speaker 1: from the band. I think that being the leader of

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Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead had become a real burden to him.

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Speaker 1: But well, he was out getting off that train. He

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Speaker 1: was only one way to leave. I mean, he had

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Speaker 1: become the reluctant leader of what had grown into this

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Speaker 1: global empire. I mean, how much were they grossing concerts,

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Speaker 1: record sales, merchandise in particular annually? It was phenomenal. The

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Speaker 1: numbers were just off the charts, you know, the uh

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Speaker 1: fifty million in ticket sales, another thirty million in t

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Speaker 1: shirt sales, Uh, you know, three million over the course

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Speaker 1: of several years. I mean, they were the top grossing

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Speaker 1: rock band for a number of years in a row

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Speaker 1: in the early nineties. They are playing consecutive dates stadiums,

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, Rolling Stones, Territory, and yet they didn't get

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Speaker 1: played on the radio. That's true, they really didn't. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they had that little MTV moment with I Will Survive,

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Speaker 1: but such a gray. Uh No, they the Dead were

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Speaker 1: never part of the radio. They they existed in a

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Speaker 1: different universe than other rock bands. And the people that

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Speaker 1: went to their shows, uh, really were devoted to the

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Speaker 1: grateful Dead, and they weren't the same people that showed

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Speaker 1: up at the Jay Giles show the next week. That

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Speaker 1: must have been a heavy burden on on Garcia, responsible

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Speaker 1: for what maybe maybe a hundred families from the from

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Speaker 1: the core group of musicians right down to the guy

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Speaker 1: who sold burritos at their concerts, I mean hundreds of

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Speaker 1: people reliant upon him. Well. And also there's been so

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Speaker 1: many long, thin, hard years where they didn't make any

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Speaker 1: dough and everybody was was was scrapping to to put

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Speaker 1: food on the table. Really, I remember in five they've

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Speaker 1: been on the road for ten years and they took

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Speaker 1: a year off and the drummer Bill Kreisman wanted to

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Speaker 1: buy a condo, you know, have a place to live,

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Speaker 1: and and he couldn't raise the five thousand dollars that

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Speaker 1: he needed for a downtainment. How is that possible? After

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Speaker 1: after American Beauty and all of these great albums about money,

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Speaker 1: and they spent it, like, you know, wilfully on on

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Speaker 1: you know, improving their acoustics, on the wall of sound

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned, Uh, on the you know, hiring one point.

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Speaker 1: They in the seventies, they had three hundred people working

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Speaker 1: for him. They had their own travel agency, they had

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Speaker 1: their own car rental company. Uh. They just soaked it

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Speaker 1: up and spread it out thin and and they were

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Speaker 1: they stayed true to that code, you know. I mean

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Speaker 1: they they saw money as a tool to expand their

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Speaker 1: influence and and and and make their scene groovier. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting mentioned that that quote of Jerry Garcia off the top,

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Speaker 1: and it is kind of ironic. And I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't want to I don't want to go too far

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Speaker 1: into this analogy because I mean, but I think of

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Speaker 1: when Garcia died and you had these four tempestuous characters.

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Speaker 1: It was almost like Tito in Yugoslavia, you know, not that,

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Speaker 1: not that Garcia was Tito. I mean he was a

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Speaker 1: strong armed man. But Garcia, with his zen like, you know,

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Speaker 1: non confrontational, he held them together. But within his absence,

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Speaker 1: they just went at each other hammer and tongs, didn't

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Speaker 1: they They did not have any grounds for a relationship

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Speaker 1: between the four of them, they all each and every

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Speaker 1: one of them. I thought that they were Jerry Garcia's

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Speaker 1: best friend, but they didn't think that about each other.

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Speaker 1: And then when Jerry was taken out of the equation,

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Speaker 1: it's like the hub went away and the spokes were

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Speaker 1: just at luc Ins. How does how do people though

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Speaker 1: performed together, lived together, traveling a bus together, in hotels

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Speaker 1: who the lean times, and not develop a close, you know,

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Speaker 1: brotherly bond. You know the fans thinking about this golden

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Speaker 1: ring of love around the band, How is that not

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Speaker 1: they those guys are all bonded. There's no question about that.

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Speaker 1: But and and and Garcia I remember him telling me

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Speaker 1: that one of the things that really served to bond them,

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Speaker 1: and used that word was all the LSD trips they

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Speaker 1: took together as young men. Um So they were bonded.

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Speaker 1: But it was a question of a relationship, right, and

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Speaker 1: you know relationally they all related to each other through Jerry,

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Speaker 1: and they didn't have like the parallel alliances that that

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Speaker 1: you would need to survive the loss of the centrifugial

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Speaker 1: part of their scene. Listen to more Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: a M. Every weeknight at one a m. Eastern and

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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast a m dot com for

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Speaker 1: more