WEBVTT - How Instagram Turned Into a Giant Market for Food 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.320 But knowledge to work and grow your business with c 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.680 i T from transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:10.520 T offers commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:13.520 small and middle market businesses. Learn more at c i 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.400 T dot com Put Knowledge to Work. We want to 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:18.400 take a quick moment to let you know about something 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:23.479 really new that's cool from Bloomberg. Starting right now, you 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.120 can use our io s app or Google Chrome extension 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:29.560 to scan the news, look at any story on any website, 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:34.240 and instantly bring up news and information from Bloomberg relevant 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.519 to what you're reading about. Yeah, it's pretty cool. 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Learn more at bloomberg dot com slash lens. 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.240 Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts Podcast. 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.800 I'm Tracy Allowitt and I'm Joe Wisenthal. Uh. The other day, 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:38.080 I was walking home and I saw this huge line 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:42.559 outside of a new store slash restaurant that was about 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:45.080 a block away from me, and it was just this 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.280 massive line around the block. And I was said, Oh, 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.600 what's what's this line for? Uh? You know, are people 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.720 as it sneakers? Is it some celebrity Inside? It turned 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:59.200 out that everyone was buying this ice cream that was 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.640 wrapped in a gigantic, fluffy waffle and they had all 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.480 these sprinkles and other crazy toppings on it. And I 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.400 was just certain that the only reason people were standing 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.160 in line to buy it, because it just looked like 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.440 ice cream and a waffle, was because it was gonna 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.880 look really good on their Instagrams and they were going 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.560 to rack up a bunch of Instagram likes. And that 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.040 was a reason that people were lining up in a 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.280 fairly chilly day for what looked like a line that 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:27.239 I lasted about an hour Uh, yeah, well you don't 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.600 need to tell me. Um. When I lived in New York, 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.000 I lived right next to the Dominic and Sell Bakery, 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.799 the place where they sell crow nuts, and I got 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.720 to witness the craziness every morning firsthand. So I would 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.200 see the people lining up at six am in the 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.919 freezing cold. I would see the people that those people 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:47.560 hired to wait in line for them and then deliver 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.960 crown nuts. That was interesting. Um. But the reason we're 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:57.600 talking about this slightly random subject is because we are 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:01.919 actually devoting this entire episode too. I guess we could say, 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.880 like the economics of Instagram. Is that a good way 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.000 to put it, yeah, Or Instagram is sort of this 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.639 food marketplace. You know. The other fascinating, fascinating thing about 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.760 the chronut phenomenon, to me, it was not just that 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:18.040 people that are essentially a food went viral and all 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:22.480 these people lined up to buy them, but that it 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.280 would it then it happened globally almost instantly, so all 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:30.160 around the world, whether it's other parts of the country, London, Korea, 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.919 everyone had their chron nut knockoff within a matter of 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.720 days or weeks. And I really think that the sort 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:42.560 of Instagram phenomenon is indispensable to understanding what's going on 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:46.800 in these this new world of viral foods. Yeah, indeed, 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:49.360 and I mean I have so many questions. My major 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.120 question is like, what makes your picture of avocado toast 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.680 better than the millions of pictures of avocado toasts that 0:03:56.720 --> 0:04:00.600 have come before you? And why do human being seemed 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:05.920 to have this like relentless interest in pictures of food 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:08.880 on Instagram? And Joe, Before we start, I'm just going 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.760 to give one big caveat, which is that this subject 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:16.440 might make me slightly grouchy. As you know. Wait, I 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:20.040 thought you were really I thought, well, we'll see. We'll 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.840 see what part of it sets you off and makes 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.599 you grouchy. But we'll leave everyone in suspense for that, 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:28.560 all right. So we actually have two people who are 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.320 joining us today to talk about the subject. We have 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.800 Julie Verhage. She's a reporter at Bloomberg and she's managed 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.880 to turn herself into a little bit of the hipster 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:45.000 slash Instagram correspondent. And we also have Amanda Topper. She 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.400 is a food blogger and a prolific instagrammer, so she'll 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:53.400 be able, hopefully to tell us all about how this works. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:08.240 Welcome to you both, Hei there, thank you, Good morning, Julie. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:12.279 Why don't we start with you, Um, you've been covering 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.440 this and you know, we talk about taking pictures of 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.680 food as this kind of funny, amusing thing that's been 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.200 happening for a while now, but you actually wrote an 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.960 article the other day about how this trend is impacting 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:32.919 physical commodities prices right, everything from color flower prices to 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:37.560 cream cheese to vanilla even it's all skyrocketing up, some 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.760 of them even hitting record highs. And it's a bunch 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.479 of these what you kind of dubbed hipster foods. So 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:48.160 everybody wants to have fancy looking avocado toast and stuff 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.720 like that. And because everybody is so eager to photograph 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:55.640 themselves eating various ingredients, that's having a real world impact 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:57.880 on commodity prices basically. Yeah. I mean when I bought 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:00.359 avocados this past week and it was three dollars and 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.200 fifty cents per avocado, which just seems outrageous, and that 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.600 was on sale. Normally be like four four fifty apiece. Amanda, 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:11.000 give us a little introduction who you are. You're a 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:17.160 food publicist. You also are a influential food instagrammer and blogger. 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.159 How did you get into this industry and how do 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.440 you actually make a living? Sure? Yeah, so my life 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.000 is kind of all encompassing around food. So my day job, 0:06:27.120 --> 0:06:30.840 if you will, is predicting trends in the food service industry. 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.040 So I am associate director of food Service Research at 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.920 Mintel and then we also have um a lot of 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.600 work with agencies and brands, So at my day to 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.320 day job, I'm kind of helping brands navigate some of 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:48.480 this territory with social media, but kind of on the side, 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.520 I also write a Chicago based food blog where I'm 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.200 reviewing restaurants, and then i also have a food Instagram 0:06:55.240 --> 0:07:00.240 where I'm covering local dishes, local events, restaurant openings, and 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.240 kind of them fully immersed in this whole Instagram world. 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:06.880 So can you give us I realized this is probably 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:08.560 going to be a big question, but can you give 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:11.640 us like a sort of high level overview of how 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.240 the rise of social media and Instagram in particular has 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:19.000 changed the food industry. That's definitely a big question. Um. 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.440 I think that especially over the last few years, we're 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.480 really seeing Instagram take over as the social media platform 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.880 to be on. So it's not relatively it's not super new. 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.440 It's been around since. But I think now we're seeing 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:38.080 more restaurants really recognize the impact that Instagram and photos 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.480 of their restaurants food can have on their on their business. 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.680 So I think we see the operational side of it 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.040 where restaurants realized the potential here, and then we also 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:53.040 see from the consumer perspective that really consumers, and especially 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:57.960 younger consumers, including millennials, are seeing the impact of how 0:07:58.000 --> 0:07:59.880 fun it can be to share pictures of their food, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.040 and in general, we know that millennials especially just love 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.280 sharing those experiences and being able to go on their 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.440 app and search for different restaurants and look at geo 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.200 tags and see exactly what they're gonna get when they 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:16.480 order food at a restaurant is really powerful. So we 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.080 have a resident millennial here in the studio who like 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:23.720 sharing photos of food and does exactly what you describe. 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.040 An addition to reporting on it, Julie explained to us 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:30.760 the appeal of sharing food pictures as you see it, 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.319 and you even mentioned this morning that your new apartment 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:37.160 has a really great light for taking photos of toast, 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.920 which I imagine is now a selling point in apartments, like, oh, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.680 this has great light for your Instagram photos, So what 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.040 is the why the urge to do that? And I 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:49.920 do it too, but I'd like you to, uh, you know, elaborate. 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.199 I mean I even picked out a perfect coffee table 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.600 for setting the food out and being able to style 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:57.240 it that way too, So I really went overboard this time. Um. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.679 I mean in general, like they do really well on Instagram. 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:02.840 You have like the right hashtags and everything. You have 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.120 the right coloring, the right lighting. Um. I mean I've 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:08.520 always taken really good photos of just scenic shots in 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.960 New York too, but food photography just does so well 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.640 on Instagram. It's crazy. You post French toast, you post 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.560 the avocado toast with the poached egg, and then you're 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:19.720 like cutting into the egg and seeing it all eat. 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.320 That's going to do really well. I mean I think 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:24.560 Amanda touched on a lot of it. Having the geo 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.760 takes and everything to always help. Like whenever I go 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.520 out to eat, I already know what I'm going to 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.520 order at the restaurant before I get there because I 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.200 looked on Instagram, yelp, fort Square, anything to see what 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.360 the best food is, and then I just order it 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.800 that way too. Yeah, I've definitely ordered food based on 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.880 what I see other people having taken photos of at 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:46.600 a restaurant, Amanda. So you know, we talked about you know, 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.640 we talked avocado toast. That's pretty old hat by now 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.040 this your job is to find the next big thing. 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.120 So as a you know, not in your sort of 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.520 professional capacity of looking at food trends, how do you 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.679 figure out what's going to blow up next? How do 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.400 you find the next cauliflower, the next kill or whatever 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.760 ingredient restaurants need to start serving. Well, I think it's 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:12.800 really important to look at not only what is happening 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:14.560 in restaurants. So a big part of what we do 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.440 is we look at menus and we analyze menus. But 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:19.440 at the same time we also see a lot of 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:25.280 trends stemming from recipes and even recipe bloggers. So I 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.920 think in the beginning, we saw a lot of of 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.479 these food trends really start in the fine dining restaurants 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.439 of the world and kind of trickle their way down 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:37.200 into your fast casuals and your fast food and even 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.920 um retail as well. But now it's not necessarily following 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.320 that same trajectory, So we kind of look at a 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.040 three sixty perspective really of what's going on in food service, 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.040 but also retail and also kind of just seeing what 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.320 kind of pops on social media. It's definitely a big 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.880 part of that. How quantitative are the techniques? So I 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:02.200 could imagine if you're doing recipe or menus, you could 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:07.520 theoretically just download massive word clouds or word databases and 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:11.240 theoretically see which ingredients are rising and falling over time. 0:11:11.240 --> 0:11:14.200 Do people do any stuff like that? Yeah, So basically 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.600 my day to day is we actually have a database 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.800 that collects menus from restaurants across the US, So it's 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.679 very quantitative. So we're looking at menu mentions of every 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.240 little thing on the menu, from the ingredient to the 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:31.480 preparation method to the flavor, so we can really get 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.880 a good read on what is trending over time. How 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:38.040 do you guys find different food bloggers or instagrammers that 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:39.559 you want to work with? Two? How do you decide 0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:42.400 because there's so many of them out there. Well, that's 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.360 kind of more falling in line with what I do 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.440 outside of work, So I kind of play both roles, 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.839 I'm kind of on both sides of this, so UM. 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.360 I think that personally, I've worked with a lot of 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.640 major brands that are really doing a good job of 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.600 targeting who they're their audiences, who that core audiences at 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.520 their trying to reach. Um. So, I think one great 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.760 example of a brand that's doing this really well recently 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.880 is Taco Bell. So when they are launching new food products, 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.280 like they are really focused heavily on not only what 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:15.520 that food is going to look like on Instagram, but 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.800 also how they want to get that message across or 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.040 the introduction across. So I think a couple of months ago, 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.960 they released the Naked Chicken Chiloopa taco and instead of 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.280 doing or using traditional media, they went the Instagram route. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:33.679 So they specifically targeted millennial food instagrammers and a few 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.920 key cities across the country and had these launch events 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:41.240 to really create authentic buzz around this product without having 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:44.560 to pay for a single ad spend. Okay, I have 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.800 a question on that because you say authentic buzz around 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:54.200 the food, um, but like it's it's so coordinated, Like 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:59.199 everything about this is so um coordinated and like planned 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:01.400 in many ways, you know, Julie just spoke about how 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.679 she's picked out a coffee table that will look good. 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.320 I've seen some of the setups of her food, Like 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.760 clearly a lot of effort has gone into this. And 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.040 I bring up the subject as well because we just 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.280 had a kind of controversial thing happened with social media, 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.360 which was, of course the Fire Festival, this music festival 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:20.480 that was going to be held in the Bahamas, and 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:24.479 that relied on getting a bunch of social media influencers 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.880 to advertise that thing before it happened. It turned out 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.640 to be a disaster, and now some of these influencers 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.680 might be in hot water because they violated some rules 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.640 on sponsored content. So how exactly does this work and 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:41.080 how authentic can it be given that ultimately you know 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.319 you're reaching out to specific people, you're targeting specific people, 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.240 and you might even be paying them or at least 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:49.040 giving them free food. I think we found what sets 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:53.120 Tracy a sorry. Yeah, I think it definitely works in 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.080 a variety of way. So there's definitely that very direct 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.600 communication where a brand reaches out to an influencer and 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.760 offers a certain amount of money for a post. But 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.440 there's also other events like the tackle Bell event where 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.440 they'll invite influencers and encourage them to post, but they 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:12.600 won't require them to post, so really kind of relying 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:14.880 on the instagramm er. If they like it and want 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.000 to post about it, then they'll go ahead and do that. 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.080 And obviously that's the end goal. Um, but it can vary, 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.480 and I think there's there can be a lot of issues, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:26.480 as you said, with being transparent about sponsored posts. I 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.120 think lately as well, there's been a lot of focus 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.640 on like FTC guidelines regarding this type of thing. So 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.360 I think people are kind of treading lightly in this 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.280 area and knowing that there could be consequences for not 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:44.800 fully disclosing posting a sponsored post. Let's take a quick 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:51.480 break now for a word from our sponsor. But Knowledge 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.480 to work and grow your business with ce i T 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.960 from transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i T offers 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:01.840 commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for small and 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.760 middle market businesses. Learn more at c i T dot 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:11.360 com put Knowledge to Work and we're back talking about 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.160 the role of Instagram and social media in the modern 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.800 food industry with us as Bloomberg reporter dou leever Hage 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:22.480 as well as Amanda Topper, Associate director of food service 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:27.760 Research at Mentel News and a food blogger and instagramm 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:31.840 er in her own right. Amanda, in the beginning of 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.800 the episode, we're talking about the Crown Nut, which I 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.280 think of is sort of one of the first examples 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.560 of this era of food sort of literally going viral 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.120 in a way that has become more commonplace. What are 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.200 some of the most extraordinary things you've seen where some 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.560 restaurant introduces a new uh, a new dish or a 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:54.400 new product and you just see it, you know, copied 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.520 instantly everywhere around the world. I think one that kind 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:03.440 of jumps to mind is the Black Craft milkshakes or 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.240 Black Tap milkshakes in New York, So I think those 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:09.360 kind of roads of popularity. And then in Chicago we 0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:14.120 saw a bunch of restaurants trying to recreate the same thing. Um. 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:17.800 But what's really interesting is there's a similar dish called 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.360 the Instagram Sunday at a restaurant here in Chicago, And 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.080 I think that just shows you that restaurants aren't aren't 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.200 really shying away from the fact that there's specifically creating 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.880 these menu items for the sole purpose of having diners 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.360 come in and take a picture of them. So that's 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.040 not a very subtle name, is it? The Instagram Sunday? 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.080 How fast did that happen? So after the milkshakes were 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.040 introduced in New York, how quickly were similar milkshakes popping 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.120 up in Chicago? I think within a matter of weeks. Um. 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.120 I think people are very well traveled, especially that millennial 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.960 generation and even restaurateurs, so I think they go out, 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.840 they see these trends, and obviously, with the power of Instagram, 0:16:57.880 --> 0:16:59.320 you don't have to be in New York to see 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:01.960 what's going on in the food scene in New York. 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.679 So I think it's it's a matter of weeks sometimes 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:08.000 where these trends kind of evolve and emerge in different 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.840 major cities. Another example of that, though, is that Starbucks 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.480 just did that unicorn for appuccino, which I just looked 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.120 and it has a hundred and fifty eight thousand hashtags 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.679 on Instagram right now. But there's a coffee shop in 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.400 Brooklyn that's been making a unicorn latte for let's see, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.560 a few months. It says December of last year it started, 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:29.840 and they're actually suing Starbucks for copying their idea. Have 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:32.280 you seen something like that happened before, where a smaller 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:36.159 chain is doing something in some big conglomerate like Starbucks 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:39.160 copies it. I did just see that article as well. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.280 Um No, No other examples really come to mind, and 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.960 it'll certainly be interesting to see the outcome of that. 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.879 I think the issue there was that both beverages do 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.679 not contain coffee, even though one must call the latte um. 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.639 But no, I haven't seen a time of other examples 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:59.600 of that now. Okay, So here's my major question with 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.720 all of us, and with um food Instagramming in particular. 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.919 So you create something like an Instagram Sunday, which is 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:13.080 clearly made to be photographed, why the endless fascination with 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.160 the same thing over and over and over again. Because 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.919 there are only so many variations you can have of 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.360 a picture of an ice cream Sunday or a crow 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.320 nut or you know, some avocado smear it on toast, 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.320 why do we keep consuming that? Well? I think a 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.000 lot of the types of food photos that perform very 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.200 well on Instagram, or foods that are really relatable. If 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:39.480 you post some really fancy plate from a five star 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.560 restaurant that might not resonate with everyone in your audience. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.600 But something like an avocado toast or a milkshake or 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:48.639 ice cream Sunday is something that people can relate to. 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.040 And even with the Sunday for example, they do a 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:56.240 great job of innovating constantly from month to month by 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.000 just shifting that Sunday just a little bit. Um Sometimes 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.720 it's a matter of incorporating a seasonal element or flavor, 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:09.000 or incorporating a holiday themed candy or cupcake on top 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:11.000 of it. So they're kind of making it a little 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.880 bit different, but still kind of riding the wave of 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.280 the popularity of that particular dish. But I really think 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:21.440 it has to do with food being relatable, and especially 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.040 things like um, the agile corn, like that is something 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.520 that people can relate to. It's something that they could 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.400 do at home, and it's it's kind of this interactive 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:34.480 experience that people want to look at and people want 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:40.120 to share themselves. That reminds me my friend Derek Thompson, 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:43.639 he's a writer at The Atlantic, and he recently wrote 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.399 a book called hit Makers, which is all about what 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.639 becomes popular, and he was talking about it in the 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:52.000 context mostly of sort of music and entertainment, but one 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.680 of his key ideas is that the most successful things 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:59.040 have a high element of familiarity with them, so they 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.560 don't push the bound to read too much. They innovate, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.320 they do something new, but there's a strong element of 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.600 I've seen this before. So it's interesting, is you know, 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.240 it's I've seen I have friends who have post images 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.320 from extraordinary five star restaurants, but they clearly don't get 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.600 the same level of likes as a really over the 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.800 top Sunday or milkshake. And there's probably an element where 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:25.200 the milkshake feels at the same time new and interesting 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.080 but also familiar and something that I could relate to 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.880 exactly as you say, Yeah, and I think, um, it's 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.760 not to say that we aren't we are not adventurous eaters. 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.560 I think that when it comes to trying new flavors, 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:41.000 those flavors are really well executed in familiar formats. So, 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.040 like you said, we're interested in trying something new, but 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:47.440 not if it's completely out of out of the realm 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.320 of something we've had before. So it's got to have 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:53.159 that sense of familiarity with it. So this leads into 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.600 my other pressing question on the matter which is what's 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:03.159 the ultimate end game in instagramming all your food? Um, 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.119 you know, everyone talks about turning themselves into a personal brand, 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.719 but so few of these personal brands are actually able 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:13.359 to turn it into a money making thing. And I 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.360 was actually reading some first person accounts from people who 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.280 have kind of managed to do that, and they were 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:24.040 saying that it's super difficult to monetize their social media presence, 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:29.200 partly because people want them to be relatable and as 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.680 soon as they start making money from being a social 0:21:31.680 --> 0:21:35.800 media celebrity, uh, that seems to go away a little bit. 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:38.640 So there seems to be a catch twenty two. So 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:42.160 maybe Julie, maybe you have some insight into this because 0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.680 you've been instagramming for a long time now, Like what's 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.280 the ultimate goal? I mean, I think I would be 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:51.200 more worried about traditional advertising versus advertising on social media 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.480 because there's still as long as you're someone that's posting 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.680 from these brands, but you still engage with your followers, 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:01.200 such as replying to their comments on your post or 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.800 going to their profile and liking different things on their page, 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:06.679 you're always going to have that follower base, and then 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:08.359 the brands are still going to want to continue to 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:13.200 work with you rather than paying some traditional advertiser, like 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:15.800 way more than what they end up paying you. But 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:18.240 there is a struggle of like the advertising business keeps 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:20.679 changing those people that were blogging five years ago, and 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:22.879 blogging five years ago is way different than what it 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.479 is now. There's fewer ads on the actual blogging page 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:28.680 that you can make money from, so it is pushing 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.640 more towards working with brands versus just letting the brands 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.600 advertise on your profile. Amanda, where do you see all 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.760 this going? What is the endgame here in terms of 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:41.439 like are people going to burn out? Are they going 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.439 to get tired? Are they eventually do people worry that 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:46.840 they're just people are going to stop just turn their 0:22:46.840 --> 0:22:49.480 phones down when they're at the restaurant and just enjoy 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:51.280