1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: But knowledge to work and grow your business with c 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: i T from transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: T offers commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: small and middle market businesses. Learn more at c i 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: T dot com Put Knowledge to Work. We want to 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: take a quick moment to let you know about something 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: really new that's cool from Bloomberg. Starting right now, you 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: can use our io s app or Google Chrome extension 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: to scan the news, look at any story on any website, 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: and instantly bring up news and information from Bloomberg relevant 11 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: to what you're reading about. Yeah, it's pretty cool. So 12 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: it means that no matter where you're reading the news, 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: you can basically bring all the data information that's on 14 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg with you. It's kind of fun to test out, right, 15 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: Jeff Right. So if you're reading a story about Tesla 16 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: or Microsoft or Apple or Facebook, you can immediately bring 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: up news and data from Bloomberg. And of course we 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: have all the news and data in the world. It's 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: really all awesome. You should check it out by downloading 20 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: the iOS app or search the Bloomberg extension on the 21 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: Chrome Store to try it out. Yeah, and it's called lens. 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: We should probably say what it's called, right, all right, right, 23 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: It's called lens. Learn more at bloomberg dot com slash lens. 24 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts Podcast. 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Allowitt and I'm Joe Wisenthal. Uh. The other day, 26 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: I was walking home and I saw this huge line 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 1: outside of a new store slash restaurant that was about 28 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: a block away from me, and it was just this 29 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: massive line around the block. And I was said, Oh, 30 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: what's what's this line for? Uh? You know, are people 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: as it sneakers? Is it some celebrity Inside? It turned 32 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: out that everyone was buying this ice cream that was 33 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 1: wrapped in a gigantic, fluffy waffle and they had all 34 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: these sprinkles and other crazy toppings on it. And I 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: was just certain that the only reason people were standing 36 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: in line to buy it, because it just looked like 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: ice cream and a waffle, was because it was gonna 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: look really good on their Instagrams and they were going 39 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: to rack up a bunch of Instagram likes. And that 40 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: was a reason that people were lining up in a 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: fairly chilly day for what looked like a line that 42 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 1: I lasted about an hour Uh, yeah, well you don't 43 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: need to tell me. Um. When I lived in New York, 44 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: I lived right next to the Dominic and Sell Bakery, 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: the place where they sell crow nuts, and I got 46 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: to witness the craziness every morning firsthand. So I would 47 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: see the people lining up at six am in the 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: freezing cold. I would see the people that those people 49 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: hired to wait in line for them and then deliver 50 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: crown nuts. That was interesting. Um. But the reason we're 51 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: talking about this slightly random subject is because we are 52 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: actually devoting this entire episode too. I guess we could say, 53 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: like the economics of Instagram. Is that a good way 54 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: to put it, yeah, Or Instagram is sort of this 55 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: food marketplace. You know. The other fascinating, fascinating thing about 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: the chronut phenomenon, to me, it was not just that 57 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: people that are essentially a food went viral and all 58 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: these people lined up to buy them, but that it 59 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: would it then it happened globally almost instantly, so all 60 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: around the world, whether it's other parts of the country, London, Korea, 61 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: everyone had their chron nut knockoff within a matter of 62 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: days or weeks. And I really think that the sort 63 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: of Instagram phenomenon is indispensable to understanding what's going on 64 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: in these this new world of viral foods. Yeah, indeed, 65 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: and I mean I have so many questions. My major 66 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: question is like, what makes your picture of avocado toast 67 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: better than the millions of pictures of avocado toasts that 68 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: have come before you? And why do human being seemed 69 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: to have this like relentless interest in pictures of food 70 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: on Instagram? And Joe, Before we start, I'm just going 71 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: to give one big caveat, which is that this subject 72 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: might make me slightly grouchy. As you know. Wait, I 73 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: thought you were really I thought, well, we'll see. We'll 74 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: see what part of it sets you off and makes 75 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 1: you grouchy. But we'll leave everyone in suspense for that, 76 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: all right. So we actually have two people who are 77 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: joining us today to talk about the subject. We have 78 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: Julie Verhage. She's a reporter at Bloomberg and she's managed 79 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: to turn herself into a little bit of the hipster 80 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: slash Instagram correspondent. And we also have Amanda Topper. She 81 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: is a food blogger and a prolific instagrammer, so she'll 82 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: be able, hopefully to tell us all about how this works. 83 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to you both, Hei there, thank you, Good morning, Julie. 84 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: Why don't we start with you, Um, you've been covering 85 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: this and you know, we talk about taking pictures of 86 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: food as this kind of funny, amusing thing that's been 87 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: happening for a while now, but you actually wrote an 88 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: article the other day about how this trend is impacting 89 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 1: physical commodities prices right, everything from color flower prices to 90 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: cream cheese to vanilla even it's all skyrocketing up, some 91 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: of them even hitting record highs. And it's a bunch 92 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: of these what you kind of dubbed hipster foods. So 93 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: everybody wants to have fancy looking avocado toast and stuff 94 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: like that. And because everybody is so eager to photograph 95 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: themselves eating various ingredients, that's having a real world impact 96 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: on commodity prices basically. Yeah. I mean when I bought 97 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,359 Speaker 1: avocados this past week and it was three dollars and 98 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: fifty cents per avocado, which just seems outrageous, and that 99 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: was on sale. Normally be like four four fifty apiece. Amanda, 100 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: give us a little introduction who you are. You're a 101 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: food publicist. You also are a influential food instagrammer and blogger. 102 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: How did you get into this industry and how do 103 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: you actually make a living? Sure? Yeah, so my life 104 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: is kind of all encompassing around food. So my day job, 105 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: if you will, is predicting trends in the food service industry. 106 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: So I am associate director of food Service Research at 107 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 1: Mintel and then we also have um a lot of 108 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 1: work with agencies and brands, So at my day to 109 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: day job, I'm kind of helping brands navigate some of 110 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: this territory with social media, but kind of on the side, 111 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: I also write a Chicago based food blog where I'm 112 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: reviewing restaurants, and then i also have a food Instagram 113 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: where I'm covering local dishes, local events, restaurant openings, and 114 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: kind of them fully immersed in this whole Instagram world. 115 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: So can you give us I realized this is probably 116 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: going to be a big question, but can you give 117 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 1: us like a sort of high level overview of how 118 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: the rise of social media and Instagram in particular has 119 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: changed the food industry. That's definitely a big question. Um. 120 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: I think that especially over the last few years, we're 121 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: really seeing Instagram take over as the social media platform 122 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: to be on. So it's not relatively it's not super new. 123 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: It's been around since. But I think now we're seeing 124 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: more restaurants really recognize the impact that Instagram and photos 125 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: of their restaurants food can have on their on their business. 126 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: So I think we see the operational side of it 127 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: where restaurants realized the potential here, and then we also 128 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: see from the consumer perspective that really consumers, and especially 129 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: younger consumers, including millennials, are seeing the impact of how 130 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: fun it can be to share pictures of their food, 131 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: and in general, we know that millennials especially just love 132 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: sharing those experiences and being able to go on their 133 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: app and search for different restaurants and look at geo 134 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: tags and see exactly what they're gonna get when they 135 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: order food at a restaurant is really powerful. So we 136 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: have a resident millennial here in the studio who like 137 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: sharing photos of food and does exactly what you describe. 138 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: An addition to reporting on it, Julie explained to us 139 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: the appeal of sharing food pictures as you see it, 140 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: and you even mentioned this morning that your new apartment 141 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: has a really great light for taking photos of toast, 142 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: which I imagine is now a selling point in apartments, like, oh, 143 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: this has great light for your Instagram photos, So what 144 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: is the why the urge to do that? And I 145 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: do it too, but I'd like you to, uh, you know, elaborate. 146 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: I mean I even picked out a perfect coffee table 147 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: for setting the food out and being able to style 148 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: it that way too, So I really went overboard this time. Um. 149 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: I mean in general, like they do really well on Instagram. 150 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: You have like the right hashtags and everything. You have 151 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: the right coloring, the right lighting. Um. I mean I've 152 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: always taken really good photos of just scenic shots in 153 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: New York too, but food photography just does so well 154 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: on Instagram. It's crazy. You post French toast, you post 155 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: the avocado toast with the poached egg, and then you're 156 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: like cutting into the egg and seeing it all eat. 157 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: That's going to do really well. I mean I think 158 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: Amanda touched on a lot of it. Having the geo 159 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 1: takes and everything to always help. Like whenever I go 160 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: out to eat, I already know what I'm going to 161 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: order at the restaurant before I get there because I 162 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: looked on Instagram, yelp, fort Square, anything to see what 163 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: the best food is, and then I just order it 164 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: that way too. Yeah, I've definitely ordered food based on 165 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: what I see other people having taken photos of at 166 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: a restaurant, Amanda. So you know, we talked about you know, 167 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: we talked avocado toast. That's pretty old hat by now 168 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: this your job is to find the next big thing. 169 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: So as a you know, not in your sort of 170 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: professional capacity of looking at food trends, how do you 171 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 1: figure out what's going to blow up next? How do 172 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: you find the next cauliflower, the next kill or whatever 173 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: ingredient restaurants need to start serving. Well, I think it's 174 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: really important to look at not only what is happening 175 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: in restaurants. So a big part of what we do 176 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: is we look at menus and we analyze menus. But 177 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: at the same time we also see a lot of 178 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: trends stemming from recipes and even recipe bloggers. So I 179 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: think in the beginning, we saw a lot of of 180 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,479 Speaker 1: these food trends really start in the fine dining restaurants 181 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: of the world and kind of trickle their way down 182 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: into your fast casuals and your fast food and even 183 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: um retail as well. But now it's not necessarily following 184 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: that same trajectory, So we kind of look at a 185 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: three sixty perspective really of what's going on in food service, 186 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: but also retail and also kind of just seeing what 187 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: kind of pops on social media. It's definitely a big 188 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: part of that. How quantitative are the techniques? So I 189 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: could imagine if you're doing recipe or menus, you could 190 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: theoretically just download massive word clouds or word databases and 191 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: theoretically see which ingredients are rising and falling over time. 192 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: Do people do any stuff like that? Yeah, So basically 193 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: my day to day is we actually have a database 194 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: that collects menus from restaurants across the US, So it's 195 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: very quantitative. So we're looking at menu mentions of every 196 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: little thing on the menu, from the ingredient to the 197 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: preparation method to the flavor, so we can really get 198 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: a good read on what is trending over time. How 199 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: do you guys find different food bloggers or instagrammers that 200 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: you want to work with? Two? How do you decide 201 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: because there's so many of them out there. Well, that's 202 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: kind of more falling in line with what I do 203 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: outside of work, So I kind of play both roles, 204 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 1: I'm kind of on both sides of this, so UM. 205 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: I think that personally, I've worked with a lot of 206 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: major brands that are really doing a good job of 207 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: targeting who they're their audiences, who that core audiences at 208 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: their trying to reach. Um. So, I think one great 209 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: example of a brand that's doing this really well recently 210 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: is Taco Bell. So when they are launching new food products, 211 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: like they are really focused heavily on not only what 212 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: that food is going to look like on Instagram, but 213 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: also how they want to get that message across or 214 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: the introduction across. So I think a couple of months ago, 215 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: they released the Naked Chicken Chiloopa taco and instead of 216 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: doing or using traditional media, they went the Instagram route. 217 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: So they specifically targeted millennial food instagrammers and a few 218 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 1: key cities across the country and had these launch events 219 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: to really create authentic buzz around this product without having 220 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: to pay for a single ad spend. Okay, I have 221 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: a question on that because you say authentic buzz around 222 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: the food, um, but like it's it's so coordinated, Like 223 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: everything about this is so um coordinated and like planned 224 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: in many ways, you know, Julie just spoke about how 225 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: she's picked out a coffee table that will look good. 226 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 1: I've seen some of the setups of her food, Like 227 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: clearly a lot of effort has gone into this. And 228 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: I bring up the subject as well because we just 229 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: had a kind of controversial thing happened with social media, 230 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: which was, of course the Fire Festival, this music festival 231 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: that was going to be held in the Bahamas, and 232 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,479 Speaker 1: that relied on getting a bunch of social media influencers 233 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: to advertise that thing before it happened. It turned out 234 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: to be a disaster, and now some of these influencers 235 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: might be in hot water because they violated some rules 236 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: on sponsored content. So how exactly does this work and 237 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: how authentic can it be given that ultimately you know 238 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: you're reaching out to specific people, you're targeting specific people, 239 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: and you might even be paying them or at least 240 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: giving them free food. I think we found what sets 241 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: Tracy a sorry. Yeah, I think it definitely works in 242 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: a variety of way. So there's definitely that very direct 243 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: communication where a brand reaches out to an influencer and 244 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: offers a certain amount of money for a post. But 245 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: there's also other events like the tackle Bell event where 246 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: they'll invite influencers and encourage them to post, but they 247 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: won't require them to post, so really kind of relying 248 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: on the instagramm er. If they like it and want 249 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: to post about it, then they'll go ahead and do that. 250 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: And obviously that's the end goal. Um, but it can vary, 251 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: and I think there's there can be a lot of issues, 252 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: as you said, with being transparent about sponsored posts. I 253 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 1: think lately as well, there's been a lot of focus 254 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: on like FTC guidelines regarding this type of thing. So 255 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: I think people are kind of treading lightly in this 256 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: area and knowing that there could be consequences for not 257 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: fully disclosing posting a sponsored post. Let's take a quick 258 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: break now for a word from our sponsor. But Knowledge 259 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: to work and grow your business with ce i T 260 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: from transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i T offers 261 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for small and 262 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: middle market businesses. Learn more at c i T dot 263 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: com put Knowledge to Work and we're back talking about 264 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: the role of Instagram and social media in the modern 265 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: food industry with us as Bloomberg reporter dou leever Hage 266 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: as well as Amanda Topper, Associate director of food service 267 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: Research at Mentel News and a food blogger and instagramm 268 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: er in her own right. Amanda, in the beginning of 269 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: the episode, we're talking about the Crown Nut, which I 270 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: think of is sort of one of the first examples 271 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: of this era of food sort of literally going viral 272 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: in a way that has become more commonplace. What are 273 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: some of the most extraordinary things you've seen where some 274 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: restaurant introduces a new uh, a new dish or a 275 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: new product and you just see it, you know, copied 276 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: instantly everywhere around the world. I think one that kind 277 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: of jumps to mind is the Black Craft milkshakes or 278 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: Black Tap milkshakes in New York, So I think those 279 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: kind of roads of popularity. And then in Chicago we 280 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: saw a bunch of restaurants trying to recreate the same thing. Um. 281 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: But what's really interesting is there's a similar dish called 282 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: the Instagram Sunday at a restaurant here in Chicago, And 283 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: I think that just shows you that restaurants aren't aren't 284 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: really shying away from the fact that there's specifically creating 285 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: these menu items for the sole purpose of having diners 286 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: come in and take a picture of them. So that's 287 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: not a very subtle name, is it? The Instagram Sunday? 288 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: How fast did that happen? So after the milkshakes were 289 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: introduced in New York, how quickly were similar milkshakes popping 290 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: up in Chicago? I think within a matter of weeks. Um. 291 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: I think people are very well traveled, especially that millennial 292 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: generation and even restaurateurs, so I think they go out, 293 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: they see these trends, and obviously, with the power of Instagram, 294 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: you don't have to be in New York to see 295 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: what's going on in the food scene in New York. 296 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: So I think it's it's a matter of weeks sometimes 297 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: where these trends kind of evolve and emerge in different 298 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: major cities. Another example of that, though, is that Starbucks 299 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: just did that unicorn for appuccino, which I just looked 300 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: and it has a hundred and fifty eight thousand hashtags 301 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: on Instagram right now. But there's a coffee shop in 302 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: Brooklyn that's been making a unicorn latte for let's see, 303 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: a few months. It says December of last year it started, 304 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: and they're actually suing Starbucks for copying their idea. Have 305 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: you seen something like that happened before, where a smaller 306 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: chain is doing something in some big conglomerate like Starbucks 307 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: copies it. I did just see that article as well. 308 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: Um No, No other examples really come to mind, and 309 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: it'll certainly be interesting to see the outcome of that. 310 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: I think the issue there was that both beverages do 311 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: not contain coffee, even though one must call the latte um. 312 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 1: But no, I haven't seen a time of other examples 313 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: of that now. Okay, So here's my major question with 314 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: all of us, and with um food Instagramming in particular. 315 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 1: So you create something like an Instagram Sunday, which is 316 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: clearly made to be photographed, why the endless fascination with 317 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: the same thing over and over and over again. Because 318 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: there are only so many variations you can have of 319 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: a picture of an ice cream Sunday or a crow 320 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: nut or you know, some avocado smear it on toast, 321 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: why do we keep consuming that? Well? I think a 322 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: lot of the types of food photos that perform very 323 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: well on Instagram, or foods that are really relatable. If 324 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: you post some really fancy plate from a five star 325 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: restaurant that might not resonate with everyone in your audience. 326 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: But something like an avocado toast or a milkshake or 327 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: ice cream Sunday is something that people can relate to. 328 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: And even with the Sunday for example, they do a 329 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: great job of innovating constantly from month to month by 330 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: just shifting that Sunday just a little bit. Um Sometimes 331 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: it's a matter of incorporating a seasonal element or flavor, 332 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: or incorporating a holiday themed candy or cupcake on top 333 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: of it. So they're kind of making it a little 334 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: bit different, but still kind of riding the wave of 335 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: the popularity of that particular dish. But I really think 336 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: it has to do with food being relatable, and especially 337 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: things like um, the agile corn, like that is something 338 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: that people can relate to. It's something that they could 339 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: do at home, and it's it's kind of this interactive 340 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: experience that people want to look at and people want 341 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: to share themselves. That reminds me my friend Derek Thompson, 342 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: he's a writer at The Atlantic, and he recently wrote 343 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: a book called hit Makers, which is all about what 344 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: becomes popular, and he was talking about it in the 345 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: context mostly of sort of music and entertainment, but one 346 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: of his key ideas is that the most successful things 347 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 1: have a high element of familiarity with them, so they 348 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: don't push the bound to read too much. They innovate, 349 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: they do something new, but there's a strong element of 350 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,600 Speaker 1: I've seen this before. So it's interesting, is you know, 351 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: it's I've seen I have friends who have post images 352 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: from extraordinary five star restaurants, but they clearly don't get 353 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: the same level of likes as a really over the 354 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: top Sunday or milkshake. And there's probably an element where 355 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: the milkshake feels at the same time new and interesting 356 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: but also familiar and something that I could relate to 357 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: exactly as you say, Yeah, and I think, um, it's 358 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: not to say that we aren't we are not adventurous eaters. 359 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: I think that when it comes to trying new flavors, 360 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: those flavors are really well executed in familiar formats. So, 361 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: like you said, we're interested in trying something new, but 362 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: not if it's completely out of out of the realm 363 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: of something we've had before. So it's got to have 364 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: that sense of familiarity with it. So this leads into 365 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: my other pressing question on the matter which is what's 366 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: the ultimate end game in instagramming all your food? Um, 367 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: you know, everyone talks about turning themselves into a personal brand, 368 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 1: but so few of these personal brands are actually able 369 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: to turn it into a money making thing. And I 370 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: was actually reading some first person accounts from people who 371 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: have kind of managed to do that, and they were 372 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: saying that it's super difficult to monetize their social media presence, 373 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:29,200 Speaker 1: partly because people want them to be relatable and as 374 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,680 Speaker 1: soon as they start making money from being a social 375 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: media celebrity, uh, that seems to go away a little bit. 376 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: So there seems to be a catch twenty two. So 377 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: maybe Julie, maybe you have some insight into this because 378 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: you've been instagramming for a long time now, Like what's 379 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: the ultimate goal? I mean, I think I would be 380 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: more worried about traditional advertising versus advertising on social media 381 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: because there's still as long as you're someone that's posting 382 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: from these brands, but you still engage with your followers, 383 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: such as replying to their comments on your post or 384 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: going to their profile and liking different things on their page, 385 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 1: you're always going to have that follower base, and then 386 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: the brands are still going to want to continue to 387 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: work with you rather than paying some traditional advertiser, like 388 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: way more than what they end up paying you. But 389 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: there is a struggle of like the advertising business keeps 390 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: changing those people that were blogging five years ago, and 391 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: blogging five years ago is way different than what it 392 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: is now. There's fewer ads on the actual blogging page 393 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: that you can make money from, so it is pushing 394 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: more towards working with brands versus just letting the brands 395 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: advertise on your profile. Amanda, where do you see all 396 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: this going? What is the endgame here in terms of 397 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: like are people going to burn out? Are they going 398 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: to get tired? Are they eventually do people worry that 399 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: they're just people are going to stop just turn their 400 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: phones down when they're at the restaurant and just enjoy 401 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: the food. Is sort of a backlash to all this. 402 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if we'll see that anytime soon. Um. 403 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: I think we're kind of always looking at what's coming 404 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: up next, And I think so I started a blogger 405 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: in and so now I sort of see as Julie 406 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: said that that's kind of shifting away from what it was. 407 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: It's definitely more short, short form content. Now, and I 408 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: think we're looking at Instagram and deciding, Okay, what's going 409 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: to be next, And I think a lot of that 410 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: is related to video and shorter videos. So I don't know. 411 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: I think it's too early to say like what's going 412 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: to be next, but I will definitely say that we're 413 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: kind of looking at what's going to be the next platform. 414 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: And I agree that it is really hard to monetize 415 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: your Instagram page because there is so much competition. But 416 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: I think the the accounts that do perform well are 417 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: ones that kind of found um an interesting hook. They're 418 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: very open about their personal lives and really try to 419 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: form unique connections with their followers, and I think there 420 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 1: can be a little bit of that catch twenty two 421 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: when these instagrammers are working with a lot of brands 422 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: and posting continuous sponsored content and makes it a little 423 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: bit hard to trust them and you under if they're 424 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: really supporting this brand or if they're just doing it 425 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: for the compensation. But at the end of the day, 426 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: if those people don't want to follow that person, they're 427 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: not going to and we're not really seeing people drop 428 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: off a ton, So I think that there's kind of 429 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: that balance between maintaining a unique identity, but also working 430 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: with brands to kind of help elevate yourself and push 431 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: your personal brand forward. I'd say another example of that though, 432 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: there's one girl I follow she's actually used with my 433 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: former neighbor, but she has two followers on Instagram, Rachel Mansfield. 434 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: And something that she does that I think really has 435 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: helped drive her business is that she hosts different sort 436 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: of meetups. So one that I went to it was 437 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: like a bar class, plus you got like these amazing 438 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: goodie bags with a bunch of food from the brands 439 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: that she works with. There was a little Q and 440 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: a afterwards, And you know, if I'm going through my 441 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: profile saying that I follow too many people and I 442 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: want to get rid of some, She's not going to 443 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: be one. Because I've engaged with her. She takes the 444 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: time to actually know who her followers are, understand what 445 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: they want to see on her profile, and really she's 446 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: done a great job of just turning this into a business. Okay, 447 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: I have another big question, sorry, which is I mean 448 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: the food trend on Instagram. Amanda, would you say that 449 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: broadly it's been good for the industry or are there 450 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: some people who have lost out because maybe this is 451 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: kind of a loaded question, by the way, but like 452 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 1: maybe there's some like tiny kitchen somewhere and they do 453 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: amazing food, but it's not that photogenic. Like, has this 454 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: changed the food industry so much that the way something 455 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: looks is now more important than the way that it tastes. 456 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Um. I think though, that restaurants 457 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: are realizing the importance of what their restaurant looks like 458 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: and what the food looks like, and they're taking that 459 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: into account. Um. I know that Julie was saying, you know, 460 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 1: she has this coffee table on this natural light, and 461 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: I think that restaurants are doing the same thing. They 462 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: know that when an influencers coming in, they want to 463 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: have that table by the window reserve for them and 464 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 1: they want to have that natural light. Um. But at 465 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: the same time, I think the restaurants that are are 466 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: doing a good job with social media are ones that 467 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: are recognizing that they're able to leverage those images that 468 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,400 Speaker 1: they're diners are posting. It's basically in a way, free 469 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,160 Speaker 1: marketing for them, and so they can utilize those images 470 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: and promote them and it's kind of a win win 471 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: situation for the diner and for the restaurant. So I 472 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know if it's gonna necessarily go 473 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: the route of food having to look better than a taste. 474 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: But I think both sides of it, the diner side 475 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: and the restaurant side, are seeing the impact and the 476 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: potential for the business. All right, final question here, So 477 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: I am really into food. I like posting into pictures 478 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: of food, particularly Chinese food, which is my favorite cuisine 479 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 1: on Instagram. So give me your top two hips two 480 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: tips Amanda for becoming a Chinese food Instagram influencer. Well, 481 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: I would definitely make sure you have a good a 482 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: good place set up to take your images, So if 483 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: it's either at home for cooking Chinese food or for 484 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: in a restaurant, make sure you get that natural light 485 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: and a great background. I think that's kind of the 486 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: majority of the battle is really the lighting situation and 487 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: the background. Um. And I also think posting maybe dishes 488 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: from some of those off the beaten path Chinese restaurants 489 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 1: that maybe your friends haven't heard about, and then they 490 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: might tend to see you as an authority in kind 491 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: of these off the beaten path Chinese spots. Well, I 492 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: will try to do that any excuse to try new 493 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: restaurants I'm into. So I really like that second tip. 494 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: The first one I might be too lazy to set 495 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: up good photos, but I could definitely do the second one. 496 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you both coming on. Manda Topper, she's 497 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: a associate director of food service at Mente and she's 498 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: uh a social media food mayven in her own right. 499 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: And Julie Verheig of Bloomberg News, who is a millennial 500 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: and post Instagram of food and other things. I really 501 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: appreciate you both joining us. Thank you so, Tracy. I 502 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: kind of have a feeling that you're anxiety about all 503 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: this isn't isn't exactly a leaved well. I feel like 504 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: I have a love hate relationship with all this because 505 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 1: I do the same thing, right, Like, I have two 506 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: Instagram accounts now and I do take photos of food. 507 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: But I just like the whole thing strikes me as 508 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: slightly ridiculous, particularly when I've been in the position that 509 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: Julie was describing, where you know, I'm arranging my plate 510 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: on a table trying to get the best light, and 511 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: I've also been sitting in restaurants where I've seen people 512 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: do nothing but take photos of their food for about 513 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 1: an hour, and the topic seems slightly ridiculous. But sometimes 514 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: I wonder, if you know, when people talk about product 515 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: the productivity paradox in the economy, like sometimes I wonder 516 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: if it's social media, if we're all just like spending 517 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: more of our time taking photos of our food, and 518 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: that's kind of where it's all going. I don't know. 519 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: I've definitely had moments in restaurants while I'll order something 520 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: and then I'll bite into it, and then as soon 521 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: as I buy it, I'm like, oh, shoot, I should 522 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: have taken that photograph first, and now the plating of 523 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: the dish is completely ruined and I should have taken 524 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: a photograph. And then other times I'll be like wait, wait, 525 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: Or if it's a family style and everyone's eating out 526 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: the same dish, I'll be wait, wait, I gotta take 527 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: a photo this, and everyone's just sitting there waiting for 528 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: me while I stand over the dish really loomingly trying 529 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: to get the perfect light and also not have the 530 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: phone cast a shadow onto the food, which is referring problem. Um. 531 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: I just don't think I have the discipline to really 532 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: take the great photos that you have to take, because 533 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: I just wanted to sort of take them for posterity 534 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: more than influence. But maybe that's that's my problem. I 535 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: don't want it bad enough. The other thing is like 536 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: it is actually shaping tastes about food and restaurants. So, 537 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, you say you like Chinese food. I'm sorry 538 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: to tell you, Joe, but a lot of Chinese food 539 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: isn't that photogenic. You should really start liking ice cream 540 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: and doughnuts and cookies and cakes because people love those photos. 541 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: It's also just a fascinating example of the way that 542 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: the medium shapes what's conveyed over the medium. I mean, 543 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: that's essential we're talking about. But it's a recurring phenomenon. 544 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's you have, you know, you take every 545 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: take anything else. Take Twitter where it once you start 546 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 1: to you know, at first it becomes this place where 547 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: you sort of dash off short messages. Then everyone's doing it, 548 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: and then suddenly everyone just sort of thinks in short 549 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: messages and likes to make week argue mints that just 550 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: fit well in a characters, but aren't that sound? And 551 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: so essentially the medium starts to redefine the underlying thinger 552 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: trying to get across. I think you see example after 553 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: example of that. So, oh absolutely, yeah, it's a it's 554 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: a fascinating it's a fascinating phenomenon. And the fact that 555 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: it literally is driving prices of avocado and vanilla and 556 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: Cauliflowers certainly takes to the market store and you can 557 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: see it in the broader consumer spending figures. Right. So 558 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: I was actually reading a city group note before we 559 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: came on the show, and they say that restaurants spending 560 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: is up let's see more than thirty over the past 561 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: five years, and food spending is up about ten percent. 562 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: So this is the classic You know, people are spending 563 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: more for experiences than for goods, but I often wonder 564 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: if they're spending on experiences because a lot of those 565 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: experiences allow them to take nice photos. Yeah, I think 566 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: I don't think there's any question that that's a big 567 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: part of it. All Right, Um, we should probably stop 568 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: before or I get really worked up. I'm also getting hungry. Yeah, 569 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: that's true. Let's go get some crown nuts. Maybe I 570 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: don't know unicorn fract I don't think we have them 571 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: in the Bloomberg in the Bloomberg Pantry. Unfortunately. Anyway, this 572 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: has been another episode of the Odd Lots podcast. I'm 573 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: Joe Wisenthal. You can follow me on Twitter at the 574 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: Stalwart and my Instagram is at the Stalwart. I'm the 575 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: same name, and I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me 576 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Tracy Alloway and you can follow me 577 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Tracy dot Alloway. And you can follow 578 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: our guest Amanda Topper on Twitter at Amanda Topper and 579 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 1: Julie Verhig on Twitter at Julie Verhigue. Thanks for listening. 580 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: Put knowledge to work and grow your business with see 581 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: i T. From transportation to healthcare to manufacturing. C i 582 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: T offers commercial lending, leasing, and treasury management services for 583 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 1: small and middle market businesses. Learn more at c i 584 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: T dot com. Put Knowledge to Work