WEBVTT - Tiananmen and the Question of Democracy, Part 2 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:12.760 Pod cast. Yeah, that that counts as an intro on Look, yes, 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:15.640 we've we've we've now started the podcast. The podcast that 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.799 we are starting is it could happen here, and I 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.720 it's me because for loong, I'm I'm doing I'm doing 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.680 the host thing, and I have a bunch of other 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.440 people with me who do a lot of things. I 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:35.640 have Garrison, yes, I have Sharen, yes, and I have Sophie, 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:40.479 our lovely boss. Sophie Lictor bed all praise on high 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:48.159 your words, not mine, weird. I did not enjoy that 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:58.440 at all my takeover. So so Sophie unfortunately, fortunately, unfortunately 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:03.200 lacks to shear ruthlessness to crush the workers movement. Well 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:14.199 we will see. Yeahs to be determined, and I don't 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:21.320 buy it, So Sophie, Sophie is very sad. I'm sorry, Sophie. 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.080 Um So, when when we last left off Lennon, Lennon 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.800 has like in theory, crushed the last sort of remaining 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.640 factions of like the workers but who want democracy the factories. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:34.840 But unfortunately for the Leninist like literally no many how 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:36.759 no matter how many workers they kill, and they are 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.200 going to kill enormous numbers of workers. The demand for democracy, 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.040 and the factory like just refuses to die for over 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.039 a hundred years. The development of the sort of mass 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.840 factory system and logistical infrastructure that you need to support it, 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.320 maybe most importantly coal mines and railroads that I use 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:55.720 to transport stuff generate this incredibly militant working class that 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.280 sees you know, democratic control over the workplaces like the 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:03.040 fundamental aspect of its liberation. Um. Ideologically, this is you know, 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:05.320 this is this is manifested in like a series of 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.360 interlocking beliefs about like the nature of the working class 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.760 and like what class society is, um, all of which 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:17.600 are sort of necessary components of this. Like it becomes 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.600 this like incredibly like this like instinctive formation of workers 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.880 council at the moment like an uprising happens. And this 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.480 is something that that's very interesting about about the twentieth century. 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:28.959 Is it, Like yeah, like what when whenever there's like 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.800 a crisis, someone someone like like about everyone in the 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:33.960 factory is like, okay, we're we we've taken control of 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.160 the factory now like we we were forming a council, 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:39.440 were forming a giant assembly, and like we don't do 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.959 this anymore, and we're gonna come back to like why 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:43.800 we don't do this anymore? But like this hasn't happened, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.400 Like the last time it happened was like in Argentine 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.800 and two dozen't one and I don't even know if 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.920 Garrison Garrison might have been alive for that. Thanks, But 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.919 like it's well, I will say. The other time it 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.680 does happens when after after a recording session, when our 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.520 boss Sophie leaves, meet me and Chris will stay on 0:03:05.520 --> 0:03:08.880 the line to talk, usually about Star Wars, and that 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:10.880 in a way kind of is a worker's counsel just 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.840 for the factory of podcasting. Yeah, talk about Star Wars 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:19.760 in front of me. I feel so bad for Sophie. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:29.320 Next next, next time, puppy face, that's okay. Featuring your 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:36.200 petite bush wat tactics won't work on me. Oh god, Well, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:38.560 all the people on the Separddit who think that we 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.320 hate Sophie are going to just have a feel day 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:46.600 with this episode. Conspiracy is my favorite recurring conspiracy theory bit. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.040 That's a real conspiracy o man o, man wow, I've 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.640 a lot of catching up on to you. You do 0:03:55.760 --> 0:04:02.320 not because it's not true run away. So meanwhile, meanwhile, 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:05.120 so it in the period when people actually like did 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.000 this seriously, you know, there's a lot of sort of 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.320 ideological things that come together to make it so that 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.080 when people like you know, like when when bread prices 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:17.520 increased too much, this is what people do. Um. And 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.960 a lot of this has to do with the physical 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.800 experience of what being a worker is in like you know, 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:28.720 the n centuries, like you have these like these these 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:34.000 these these incredibly rapid like technological expansions, and you know, 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.640 the people who are who are doing this stuff like 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.040 see themselves as the creative of the new world, right like, 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.280 and this is like literally this is happening, Like, these 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.320 are the people who are literally like they are building 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.760 the cities, right like all of the sort of the 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.040 infrastructure of the modern world is physically being created by them. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.600 And this creates this you know, like if you're the 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:56.080 person who is like who has transformed like this fishing 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.680 village into this giant industrial city, right um, you know 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.480 you you you see yourselves as the creator like literally 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.919 physically the creator of this new world is being developed. 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.880 And then the second belief that that it produces that 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.040 drives this movement is that the people who produced this 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.160 world should be its inheritors and so and this this, 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:17.200 this sort of this is what drives the workers movement 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.280 in this period, which is that like, okay, so if 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.200 if you if you are literally physically creating the new world, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:24.800 and you think that because you have created it, it 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.840 should be yours. Uh, the next that the thing that 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.120 you do, because it's not yours, right, like you don't 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:34.560 like yeah, you know, like the people who build cities 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.920 are not the people who owned the cities. And you 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.520 know if you see this, yeah, like yeah, okay, like 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.640 in the city is actually owned by like three real 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:48.800 estate speculators and like a bunch of cops and more 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:51.400 applicable examples like the people who build the cup podcast 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.400 is not own the podcast. Yeah no, we don't own 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.640 the podcast. Like we we are exactly applicable result that 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:58.960 you know that can of that. You know, everyone understands 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.000 that example. Yeah we I actually don't think that people 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.560 understand that we don't own the podcast. It's actually unclear 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:07.479 to me. I I people people have weird things about 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.039 how podcasting works. But yeah, we don't own the podcast. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.120 We just create it and we do all the work. 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.080 And then Sophie sits in her leather chair looking down 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:25.480 at all the leather chair. Think, I think at all 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.480 my podcast creations I have created, and then all of 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.600 us past so bad? How could you think I could 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:35.560 sit here on an five degree day in a leather 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:43.200 chair to Sophie, at least get your facts right, my 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:49.960 word a chair? Continue, Chris. Okay. So for for for 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.920 the people who are like actually watching their boss, like 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:55.800 sitting around smoking a giant cigar in a factory while 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:59.760 they pound like hammers, or like work at a hospital 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:06.000 and get a watch like just started a massive cigar 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:15.320 and a comically large to prop. But because for the record, 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.680 whenever I do hang out with my other boss, Robert, 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.640 he often does sit in some chair smoking a cigar, 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:25.360 and I do think it is in fact leather. Okay, 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:28.400 So we're describing Robert before me, the slave away in 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.680 my laptop writing scripts and yeah, just work in the 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.960 podcast minds. Yeah, it's it's it is. It is really 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.880 hard out there, yea, and continue. So okay, So, like 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.120 the belief that you produced the world and that if 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:45.640 you produce you should own it. It's like this this 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:47.600 is not unique to the part of the workers movement 0:07:47.720 --> 0:07:50.280 that like you know, thinks that also you should like 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.120 have a democracy and the factory and like you should 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.080 have the autonomy to decide how you do your work 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.200 and what needs to be done. Uh. That those beliefs 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.520 like broadly comprise the ally of like the entire workers movement, 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:04.080 and and by you know, by by the twenty century, 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.600 the workers movement is really really broad, right, I mean 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.920 it stretches from sort of like really mild social democratic 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.400 trade unionists to like the intellectual heads of these like 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.480 Leninist vanguard parties. But what what makes the democratic wing 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:20.320 unique is that their concern is the fundamental alienation of 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.320 factory life. And and this this is i mean, originally 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.320 like it is very much factory life, but like this 0:08:24.520 --> 0:08:27.680 this gets expanded out as this goes on into sort 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:32.520 of the like the fundamental alienation of labor itself, which 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.000 is just this condition of being reduced to an object 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.720 by bosses who use you as a tool to do something. 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.400 And you know, and this this is a concern for 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:43.319 everyone in some sense, but but for the Lenins and 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.240 social democrats, alienation is just like a product of ownership 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.880 or distribution. Right. So you know, if if that's what 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.360 you believe the way you defeat alienation is through the 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:55.760 working class of productive capacity, not in it, not in 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:57.520 sort of like any kind of like in a human 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:01.160 like humanity of creativity. Like all I to do is like, well, okay, 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.080 you flip a switch, right, and the factory is now 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.000 owned by the state instead of being owned by like 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.560 JP Morgan or something like, Now your alienation is gone. 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.439 That's how it works. Yeah, Or and and your social democracy. 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:17.840 It's like, well, okay, so you you you you flip 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.640 a switch and taxes get higher, and now you have 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.600 a union, but you're still working for gold You're still 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.199 working for the Goldman Sachs. But you know, but for 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:29.400 for for for for the wing of the workers movements 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:35.280 that you know actually cares about democracy. This doesn't solve anything, right, like, 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:40.719 as long as the fundamental relation of being the like 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.240 of being an object rights. As long as like you, 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.800 fundamentally the worker are are not are not a human 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.079 being who has agency and control and autonomy over their life. 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:52.640 As long as you're just an object that you know, 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:55.560 like you're you're like you you you're a living human 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.199 tool that the one man ruler of the factory can 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:00.720 like you know, can can wield round to do whatever 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.040 they want as as long as that persists. Changes in ownership, 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.520 structure and need like health benefits missed the entire point, 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.240 and this kind of the degradation that comes from just 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.160 being a tool can only be solved by returning agency 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.959 and autonomy to the working class. And that means like 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:19.000 actually giving the class control over the production process. And 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.880 you know, in in in six in Spain, workers are 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:24.880 like funk this and decided to take the entire thing 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:27.719 into their own hands. And they do this by just 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.000 seizing their workplaces and mass and this becomes known as 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:32.959 a Spanish revolution um and it is one of the 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.120 most extensive sort of experiments. And like workers democratic self 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:39.400 managements or like whatever whatever you want to call people 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.840 making their own decisions in the workplace like that has 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.360 ever happened, like especially in the modern era. Like everything 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.199 from like public utilities to like bakeries to hospitals to 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.240 shoe factories like falls under the direct control of these 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.520 like democratic unions. And once their bosses have been like 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.959 you know, chased from the premises and like flee and 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:01.920 terror uh, these workers set about like transforming the entirety 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.560 of Spanish society along democratic lines, like they pulled their 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.400 resources together collectively and that they allocate them democratically for 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.480 the benefit of society as a whole. And for a 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:12.760 brief moment this works. They have this incredible, like this 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.679 triumphant experiment democratic self managements, and output increases dramatically and 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:21.199 social services are expanded, and like in in In in 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:22.920 the span of two years in the middle of a 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.439 civil war, like the workers of Spain are able to 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.480 create a universal health care system that expands kara into 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.440 like like rural areas of Spain where like you couldn't 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.440 get it before. But you know, the problem is once 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.240 again is that this is happening to the civil war 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:40.040 and and a lot like you know, using sort of 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.839 like nominally anti fascism like as as they're sort of 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.280 like you know, they're using the threat of the need 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:48.439 to post fascism as as a sort of front like 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.120 a French for what they're actually doing. You get this 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.920 alliance of liberals, liberal socialists and Stalinists who just like 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.079 brutally stamp out any attempt that you democratic self management, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.000 and like you have like Soviet car duration like n KVD, 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:04.320 like Soviet secret police, guys like literally leading armies into 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.280 into these cities and like like like killing the workers 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.240 and then physically like taking control of these factories that 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.040 people had sees and giving them back to the bosses, 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.160 which is you know, this is this is great. This 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:20.280 is a great communist stuff. And yeah, the you know, 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.000 and this this this ends exactly how you would expect 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.880 it to end with. Oh yeah, like this this the 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.280 Stalinists get everything they want. They murder all of the 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:30.960 people who want like a factory council, and then they 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.160 all get killed by Franco. But you know, undeterred by 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.760 sort of the casualty tolls of these like massacres by 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.360 people who want bosses. Uh, this just keeps happening, and 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:46.160 you know, by the time you get to like all 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.360 this stuff is back like there there's there's factory councils 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.559 again in Hungary, you get them in Italy and France 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.400 and the Zichoslovakia eight there's like like they're they're, they're, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.760 they're there's councils being like there, there's there's communes being 0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.360 formed in like Vietnam. There's like they're there. We've talked 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.800 about the Court on Asonu in in Chile on the 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.559 show before, Like, these things are happening everywhere, and I 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.760 think Hungary in particular is a really interesting one because 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.880 so there's a revolution in Hungary against sort of the 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.880 Soviets in the X that's it gets a lot of 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.439 the same liberal mythologizing that you get with Tenemen, but 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.920 like kind of more egregious here. So I don't know, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.880 I think, like I got taught this revolution in schools 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:31.480 is like one of the few ones that we actually get, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.640 and they taught it as this like this is like 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.240 the Hungarian revolution was just like kind of nationalists, like 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.079 liberal democratic revolution for people who wanted like democracy and 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.120 freedom and like free markets. And then like you know, 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.080 if you go read about what the people were at 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.439 but people actually doing the revolution we're saying, you get 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.959 quotes like this, This is a direct quote from a 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:52.880 member of one of the Hungarian workers councils the time 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.880 when the boss is decided, our fate is over, and 0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:00.480 it's like, ha, these these got these guys do not 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.120 seem like I don't know, these guys don't steam like 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.679 liberal democrats that something weird is happening here. That's something 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.719 that's actually happening is it like Hungarian workers like sea 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.880 control of their factories and like the workplaces, and they 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.720 formed workers councils the overs of the government and then 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.079 the Russian slaught of them all. But you know, like 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:18.800 this is not a liberal democratic revolution at all, that 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.280 this is a revolt against the tatorship in the workplace. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.400 And there's an identical revolts break out across both the 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.000 capitalist world and the communist world, and in the newly 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:31.400 de colonized society start seeing them too, and you know, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.320 and to the sort of like dismay of both the 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.160 communists and the capitalists who are both like, oh my god, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.640 why is and we keep forming workers councils like this 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.640 solution to alienation, Like it's not like an ideological thing, right, 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.040 Like it's it's not that there's like a group of 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.400 people who are like secretly infiltrating these countries and being like, okay, 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:53.080 you needful workers councils. This this is this stuff is 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:55.320 happening in places where there's just like none of that. 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:57.800 So like what one of one of the sort of 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.600 like movements that does stuff like this is is the 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.600 revolution in Algeria? Um, you know, and they're like they're 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.680 there they were like Algeria like does have a pretty 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.720 high level of political education, but the political education they're 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:14.040 getting is from like it's it's from the National Liberation Front, 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.840 which is like asofar As, it's any one thing. It's 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:18.920 like it's a nationalist vanguardist movements, which is you know 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.280 that they're the people who like fight the French colonizers 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:24.920 and beat them. And their ideology like asofar As, you 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:26.720 can describe one idea allogion. Like the thing that they 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.080 want is like the state having this decisive role in 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:33.400 national development. But you know, immediately it's taking power off. 0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.120 And Bambella, who's Algeria's first president, like discovers that, you know, 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.080 he he's not actually going to be the one like 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.800 making the decision about what the country's economic cruature is 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.240 going to be because he takes power and a whole 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.120 bunch of like French people who live in Algeria of flee, 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.680 and basically what happens immediately after is that all of 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.840 like all of these this property that had been originally 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:01.760 like held by by by French sort of colonists, like 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.280 it gets immediately seized by the Algerian working class and 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.520 you know, they build their own workers councils, and you know, 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.720 BenBella is like, Okay, I guess I guess we have 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.400 like workers councils now, like I guess I guess we 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.360 have sort of like autonomous democratic production and BenBella is 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:22.160 like kind of trying to undermine them. But he doesn't 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:24.680 really get a chance too, because once again there's a 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:30.280 military coup and BenBella, like he I think he escapes, 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.480 it doesn't die. But like the fact that the councils 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:34.880 all sort of get dismantled again. But like the number 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:37.640 of times this has happened is getting just like completely 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:42.600 out of hand, and it's like yeah, okay, the it's 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.160 like yeah, okay, so every time this happens, they murder everyone. 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:46.960 But like, you know, the revolutions keep happening, and they 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:51.560 keep happening, and they keep happening, and you know, even 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.640 even as late as like the late seventies, like it's 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.080 not clear that that that like it's it's not clear 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:58.560 that the people who want one man role the factory 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.400 are gonna win. Like there's this moment in Italy nineteen 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.560 seventy seven where it's like this this like giant student 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:07.159 Student and Worker Coalition almost takes power. Um, Like in 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:12.000 Spain even after like fifty years of of like Franco 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.320 and like the fascist octatorship, like the c n T, 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:17.040 which is the anarchist union that had done the revolution 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.560 like reappears in the seventies again even though everyone thought 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.399 it was gone, and like, you know, this is a 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:28.959 real this is a real source of strife for especially 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.560 the sort of capitalist managerial elite. Who are you know 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.280 they this stuff keeps happening. It's like okay, like it 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.760 is an unacceptable risk that one of the one day, 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.000 one of these groups is going to win. And so 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:46.320 they start looking for a way to like dismantle this 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.359 sort of like systemic things that like create that that 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:52.480 caused people to do this. But you know, but they're 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:53.639 but they're trying to do it in a way that 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:58.920 doesn't involve them giving up their power. Um. So yeah, 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.520 it's Vicky Austen. While it's out this sort of like 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.119 this like instinctive embrace of like democracy and the factory, 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.199 like as a political program, it's only possible as long 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.440 as factories, as long as like the factory functions is 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:11.959 the point of encounter. Her. I think It was her 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.840 term for which she calls it a darker Gora, which 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.600 is like, so Gore is like like the sort of 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:18.360 like the Greek marketplace in the center of a town. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.439 Everyone goes there and you like talk about things, right, 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.919 and the factory serves as this kind of like it's 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.520 this sort of like dark version of it where like, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.800 on the one hand, you know, it facilitates these interactions 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:32.800 that allow people to sort of like identify with each 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:36.159 other and like you know, create collective meaning by like 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.040 interacting with each other. But on the other hand, it 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.120 exists to exploit you, and it's like terrible and you're 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:44.840 just getting you know, you're getting physically and socially destroyed 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.880 like every moment you're in it. But you know it's 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.520 it's still is a place where you can like assemble 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.720 an identity as like like you and a bunch of 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:55.119 people around you can go like, hey, like we are workers, right, 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.000 like we are the working class, and this this is 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.000 like a shared political identity that you have that allows 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:03.200 you to do things. And so the thrust of sort 0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.119 of the attack against this takes the form of this 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.440 attack on like the shop floor as like a site 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.200 of like formation of identities that that can allow you 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.200 to mobilize stuff. And so this takes like a number 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.879 of forms. Um most famously, there's there's it's the industrialization 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.720 and this sort of like spatial relocation of factories. So 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.720 like like part of what's going on, right is that 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.639 you have a you have a bunch of people who 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.280 work in a factory, and then they live like around 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.720 like right around the factories. Right, they work in a 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:32.359 coal mine, and the eyyone lives in a town around 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.800 the coal mine. And this means that everyone sees each 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.439 other constantly, and they're like constantly like running into each 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:41.080 other and like physically talking to each other. And you know, 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.879 this is a really good way to create radical politics. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:48.440 So what happens is you these factories get sent out 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:53.320 to the suburbs, and this allows you to create places 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:55.119 where you know, workers are isolated from each other, and 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:56.359 you know, and the other thing you can do is 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.399 you turn workers into homeowners and you sort of like 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.200 buy them all off for this combination of like cheap 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:03.840 credit and this promise that like their houses will not 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.440 be a financial asset. And so as the sort of 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.480 eighties rolls on, the sort of the the like the 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.080 herald of democratization of finance replaces democrazation. The factory is 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.639 sort of the capitalist class. Like the other thing they 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.800 do that's like really insidious is they they tied like 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:24.159 the remaining union pensions into the stock market. And this 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:25.800 is stuff like you see today with like four O 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:28.639 one case, and it means that like if you want 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.719 to like have a retirement, you are like physically literally 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.520 invested in the stock market, which ties you know, which 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.399 ties everyone sort of like into the system. And corporations 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.600 start to turn workplaces into these like enormous propaganda apparatus. 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:45.000 Is you get like like Walmart in particular, has these 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.879 like like these vast ideological like programming things that they 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.080 run that are designed to sort of like get you 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.480 to identify with like the corporation itself and not with 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.600 like the other people you're you know, like the other 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.399 people you're within the class as a whole, and you know, 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.119 and like the other thing that they're able to do 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:02.680 is the fact that capital is mobile and workers like 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.480 aren't allows you know, combines with like logistics advances, and 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.320 it means that like if workers ever start getting an 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:12.480 upper hands somewhere, capitalists can just leave. And the process 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:13.920 that you see is that as this sort of the 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.480 total number of people working in in the like in 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.199 industrial work keeps decreasing, right as a cential of the population, 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:24.400 it keeps decreasing. And as this happens, capitalists are just like, okay, scirt, 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:26.119 we're gon, we're gonna, We're gonna pick up our tools 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:30.439 and leave. And this spits out like enormous populations who 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.040 are just like kicked out of pratitional workforce entirely. And 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.960 these developments, this is what actually like eventually destroys the 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.119 classical workers t mouvement is the abilability to leave in 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:40.840 the sort of destruction of the factory is like a 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.040 site of stuff. But in order for this to work, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.200