WEBVTT - Episode 7: The Bat Signal

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<v Speaker 1>Malta's institutions are deliberately being undermined, weakened and destroyed to

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<v Speaker 1>allow corruption and criminality to flourish. Those who voted for

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<v Speaker 1>this mess have a great deal to be ashamed of.

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<v Speaker 2>Strasbourg. The European Parliament Clean Recession of twenty fourth of

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<v Speaker 2>October twenty seventeen. Parliament President Antonio Tajani approaches the central

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<v Speaker 2>podium and signals for quiet. Comes as President.

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<v Speaker 3>Gome Chittadino, as a citizen com journalista, as a journalist, Volo.

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<v Speaker 2>Esprit used to express my indignation.

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<v Speaker 3>Indign brutal at the brutal assassination Didne Gwana Galizi.

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<v Speaker 2>Of Deafnite Karwana Galitzia.

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<v Speaker 4>This is not normal business for the European Parliament. It's

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<v Speaker 4>rare for the Parliament to discuss an individual murder case

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<v Speaker 4>in one of its member states, but today it's happening.

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<v Speaker 3>Quiborns her family and the galleries, her husband, her three sons,

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<v Speaker 3>and I wish to say to them that we stand

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<v Speaker 3>alongside them, along with thousands of Montice are demonstrated in

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<v Speaker 3>the streets.

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<v Speaker 4>The camera pans up to the observer's gallery, showing Daphne's widower,

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<v Speaker 4>Pisa and her three sons Matthew, Andrew and Paul, sitting

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<v Speaker 4>together dressed in suits and ties, blank faced, barely begun

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<v Speaker 4>to grieve. It's just ten days since Daphne's murder. Daphne's

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<v Speaker 4>middle son, Andrew, still remembers this speech.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, I remember it. It's actually strangely nice to see

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<v Speaker 5>this again and everaged it.

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<v Speaker 4>It's impossible to imagine the strength that it must take

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<v Speaker 4>for the family to be traveling and campaigning for justice

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<v Speaker 4>before Daphnitely has even been buried. But this parliamentary session

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<v Speaker 4>in Strasbourg does matter for us.

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<v Speaker 5>That was a turning point when we moved from grieving

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<v Speaker 5>to campaigning.

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<v Speaker 6>It was a very conscious decision.

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<v Speaker 5>It was against everything that our emotions were telling us

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<v Speaker 5>to do, so suddenly we were transformed from a grieving

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<v Speaker 5>family into essentially professional lobbyists.

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<v Speaker 2>That switch from grief to campaigning is the first step

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<v Speaker 2>in a new and unusual strategy to bring Daphne's killers

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<v Speaker 2>to justice, a strategy to short circuit the usual channels

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<v Speaker 2>of Mota's compromised institutions and divided culture. But it takes

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<v Speaker 2>its toll.

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<v Speaker 5>We were turning up with speaking points about the rule

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<v Speaker 5>of law in the country, about the corruption crisis, and

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<v Speaker 5>in doing so, we were in a way dehumanizing our

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<v Speaker 5>own mother. We were turning her into a case, and

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<v Speaker 5>we were turning ourselves into campaigners rather than grieving sons.

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<v Speaker 2>So far, we've heard about two routes for Dafnese killers

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<v Speaker 2>to be caught, First through the official police investigation, second

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<v Speaker 2>through political pressure from the protest movement in Dafnese's memory,

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<v Speaker 2>the sit ins and marches in Valletta and the gatherings

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<v Speaker 2>at the Great Siege Monument, the sense of raw anger

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<v Speaker 2>among ordinary Matese people. But the family know that on

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<v Speaker 2>their own both these approaches are flawed, open to political manipulation,

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<v Speaker 2>to corruption, to media blackouts and crackdowns by the Maltese

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<v Speaker 2>government here in Strasbourg. On the international stage, the odds

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<v Speaker 2>might be different here in Strasbourg Moreta's elite might find

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<v Speaker 2>it more difficult to stack the deck in their favor.

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<v Speaker 4>Ultimately, this new strategy will produce breakthroughs in the case

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<v Speaker 4>that would never have happened otherwise, and will bring the

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<v Speaker 4>family close of an ever to finding out who ordered

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<v Speaker 4>Japanese murder.

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<v Speaker 3>No silin and we will not remain Sanscobert, we must.

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<v Speaker 2>See the perpetrators of this murder brought to justice. From

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<v Speaker 2>iHeart Podcasts, Topic studios and vespoci. I'm Manuel Delia and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm John Sweeney and this is Crooks Everywhere, Episode seven,

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<v Speaker 2>The bad Signal.

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<v Speaker 4>Sir Dafne is have decided to try and make this

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<v Speaker 4>a global story. I know from experience that isn't easy.

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<v Speaker 4>Foreign news, except for wars, rarely makes the front page

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<v Speaker 4>in London, Paris or New York.

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<v Speaker 2>And the family are painfully aware of that, aware that

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<v Speaker 2>the new cycle will soon move on from their mother's death,

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<v Speaker 2>so they have to strike quickly.

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<v Speaker 4>I worked on the story of Daphne's murder for the BBC.

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<v Speaker 4>I knew that from the point of view of my bosses,

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<v Speaker 4>this was a compelling story they wanted to cover, but

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<v Speaker 4>not one that could take up too much of the spotlight.

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<v Speaker 4>As the months wore on, the chances of identifying the

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<v Speaker 4>perpetrators seemed pretty slim. An unsolvable murder in a small

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<v Speaker 4>European country. Next item.

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<v Speaker 2>Please all that said, I think Daphne's family do have

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<v Speaker 2>one ease of their sleeve.

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<v Speaker 7>I've worked on a number of cases over the years

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<v Speaker 7>of campaigns for justice for journalists who have been killed.

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<v Speaker 2>Robert Vincent works for Reporters with Borders, a charity that

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<v Speaker 2>advocates for persecuted journalists around.

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<v Speaker 7>The world, and I often work closely with families in

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<v Speaker 7>these campaigns. Not every family is able to speak out

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<v Speaker 7>in this way. In fact, the way that they've been

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<v Speaker 7>able to organize and really sustain this effer over so

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<v Speaker 7>many years is highly unusual.

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<v Speaker 2>The ace of the sleeve is the family itself, and

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<v Speaker 2>there's set of skills.

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<v Speaker 7>So Matthew was an award winning journalist. I think he

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<v Speaker 7>had already been part of a team that won a Pulitzer.

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<v Speaker 2>And then there's Andrew Dafnie Middleson, who we've already heard from.

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<v Speaker 7>Andrew is always known as the diplomat because he had

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<v Speaker 7>in fact been a diplomat for some time, and personality wise,

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<v Speaker 7>of the three, he is definitely the diplomatic one. He

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<v Speaker 7>is very kind and very gracious.

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<v Speaker 2>Paul, the youngest brother, was at that time living in

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<v Speaker 2>London and later also became an award winning journalist and

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<v Speaker 2>the author of Dafnie's biography.

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<v Speaker 4>So a diplomat and two journalists, all with international connections.

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<v Speaker 2>Dephnie's husband Peter and her sister Corinne are also essential

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<v Speaker 2>team members. He is a lawyer and she's a pr consultant,

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<v Speaker 2>also useful skills. This is Andrew the diplomat, And what.

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<v Speaker 5>Me and my family realized very early on in Malta

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<v Speaker 5>was that international pressure was not only our only hope

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<v Speaker 5>because the domestic environment was just so difficult, but that

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<v Speaker 5>it was actually our most powerful lever, more powerful than say,

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<v Speaker 5>the opposition party, more powerful than what was left of

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<v Speaker 5>the press in Malta.

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<v Speaker 4>But that raises the same question, how do you get

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<v Speaker 4>the rest of the world to care about a murder

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<v Speaker 4>in Malta.

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<v Speaker 2>One possibility is the focus on the European Union's idea

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<v Speaker 2>of itself, the idea of Europe as a place of democracy,

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<v Speaker 2>rule of law, and freedom of the press, a place

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<v Speaker 2>where it matters if journalists are murdered.

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<v Speaker 5>Malta is such a small country, it's so dependent on

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<v Speaker 5>new membership.

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<v Speaker 2>Bluntly, we Maltese need Europe more than Europe needs.

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<v Speaker 5>Us, but so so dependent on international partnerships that it's

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<v Speaker 5>a unique example where international pressure can actually overcome domestic resistance.

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<v Speaker 2>One really important example our economy depends on international finance

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<v Speaker 2>being based here. And if the EU decides that Malta

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<v Speaker 2>is no longer a stable, well governed member of the Union,

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<v Speaker 2>or even publicly criticizes how the country is run, then

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<v Speaker 2>those rich international investors might go elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 4>Which means a public tribute to Japanese's work in the

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<v Speaker 4>European Parliament might have real financial consequences.

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<v Speaker 2>So the first weeks after Dapnese's death go by, the

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<v Speaker 2>street protests build, and at this point the FBI come

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<v Speaker 2>in to investigate the forensic trail left by the killers,

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<v Speaker 2>and men like Melvin the Middleman, mister alleged Mastermind, and

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<v Speaker 2>the Georgia's become increasingly worried, gradually realizing that this isn't

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<v Speaker 2>just another local car bombing that will ultimately be ignored

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<v Speaker 2>by the police.

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<v Speaker 4>And that's when Daphne's family decide to make solving Daphanese

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<v Speaker 4>murder a global cause for journals.

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<v Speaker 2>Everywhere and here Daphne's son, Matthew the journalist, has a

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<v Speaker 2>piece of luck. An international organization has just been formed

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<v Speaker 2>that was designed for exactly the situation.

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<v Speaker 6>An organization called Forbidden Stories.

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<v Speaker 2>The idea is that when a journalist is persecuted or murdered,

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<v Speaker 2>a global bet signal is sent out to other investigative

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<v Speaker 2>reporters around the world to take on the same stories

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<v Speaker 2>and follow them to their true conclusions.

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<v Speaker 6>Because we thought that the stories should not die with

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<v Speaker 6>the people.

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<v Speaker 4>So by murdering Daphne, her killers are multiplying theumber of

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<v Speaker 4>reporters on the case.

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<v Speaker 2>Attracting even more attention to her work and her stories,

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<v Speaker 2>and seeing if those stories might yield clues as to

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<v Speaker 2>who wanted her dead, who the real mister allegit mastermind

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<v Speaker 2>might be. The journalists that forbidden stories called their new

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<v Speaker 2>journalistic coalition the Deafnite Project, and they start by digging

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<v Speaker 2>deep into Dafnie's archive of old investigations.

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<v Speaker 6>When Dafnit was killed, this was the natural thing to

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<v Speaker 6>do after that was to say, okay, this is the

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<v Speaker 6>first case. This is what we have to do. Now,

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<v Speaker 6>this is our case. Let's try to assemble a team

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<v Speaker 6>of journalists. Let's go to Marta. Let's try to tell

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<v Speaker 6>her story. Let's try to see that the people who

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<v Speaker 6>killed her and who wanted her stories to die, that

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<v Speaker 6>they don't get away with that, that the stories are

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<v Speaker 6>still going to see the light of day, and that

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<v Speaker 6>they're going to be punished.

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<v Speaker 2>The hope of the Deafney project is that clues to

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<v Speaker 2>her murder might lie in some of the stories she investigated,

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<v Speaker 2>and it turned out that hunch was correct. Within her

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<v Speaker 2>blog posts there is in fact a faint trail leading

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<v Speaker 2>to the likely masterminds of her murder, and mister allegit

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<v Speaker 2>mastermind in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>Feb Second, twenty sixteen. If the Panama hat fits, wear it.

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<v Speaker 2>But the clues are deeply buried. I remember when Dafney

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<v Speaker 2>published this blog post eighteen months before her death, the

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<v Speaker 2>start of her most famous story. It was typical of

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<v Speaker 2>her sense of mischief, being deliberately mysterious, playing with her public,

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<v Speaker 2>and it worked. You'd be repeatedly checking the block throughout

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<v Speaker 2>the day to see if all had been revealed on

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<v Speaker 2>the surface. This post strangely seemed to be all about hats.

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<v Speaker 1>Conrad Mitzi has found a hat that fits him.

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<v Speaker 4>It includes a large stop photo of a Panama hat,

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<v Speaker 4>a kind of straw some hat. The text is made

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<v Speaker 4>up of cryptic and sarcastic messages about a government minister

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<v Speaker 4>called Conrad Mitzi, Walter's Health and Energy minister.

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<v Speaker 1>Take this as a genuine warning, I am not at

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<v Speaker 1>liberty to say more for the time being, because if

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<v Speaker 1>I were then rest assured that I would.

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<v Speaker 2>Twenty minutes later I definitely posted another puzzle. This one

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<v Speaker 2>had a picture of acute lamb and a few paragraphs

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<v Speaker 2>wandering out loud whether mister Mitzi would be eating New

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<v Speaker 2>Zealand lamb at Easter.

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<v Speaker 1>When I say I have an international, worldwide network of spies,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not quite joking, but sadly I can't say more

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<v Speaker 1>for now, though I'm bursting.

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<v Speaker 2>Too hats lambs. The government minister the truth was definitely

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<v Speaker 2>had got access to an incredible scoope through her son

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<v Speaker 2>Matthew's work. You might remember the Panama Papers, a huge

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<v Speaker 2>global story where millions of confidential finds from a secret

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<v Speaker 2>of firm in Panama were leaked to the press. What

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<v Speaker 2>we now know is that Daphanie had got an early viewing.

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<v Speaker 4>The Panama Papers were a huge deal for the kind

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<v Speaker 4>of work I do, investigations into corrupt regimes. They gave

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<v Speaker 4>us a roadmap to the complex global arrangements that super

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<v Speaker 4>wealthy individuals use to keep their wealth secret, how rich

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<v Speaker 4>crooks avoid taxes and sanctions and money laundering investigations and

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<v Speaker 4>journalists with questions. In my work on Putins Russia, the

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<v Speaker 4>publication of the papers was a game changer, one of

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<v Speaker 4>those rare times where for a moment, a whole hidden

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<v Speaker 4>world is revealed.

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<v Speaker 2>One hundred and forty three politicians from around the world

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<v Speaker 2>were featured in the files, including twelve national leaders, from

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<v Speaker 2>the then Prime Minister of Iceland to the then President

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<v Speaker 2>of Ukraine. But it wasn't just politicians. There were bureaucrats, businessmen,

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<v Speaker 2>minor royalty, even the Hong Kong actor Jackie Chan.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, having a name churned up in the Panama

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<v Speaker 4>Papers does not necessarily mean that the person committed a crime,

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<v Speaker 4>but it does raise some interesting questions about what they're

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<v Speaker 4>doing with these secretive accounts. And the country of Panama

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<v Speaker 4>was significant because it was a tax haven with little regulation,

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<v Speaker 4>a place which tends not to share financial information with

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<v Speaker 4>most other countries, a place where you can park assets

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<v Speaker 4>away from prying eyes.

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<v Speaker 2>And Deafney's sneak preview revealed that the Panama Papers included

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<v Speaker 2>significant information about Malta too. Health and Energy Minister Mitzi

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<v Speaker 2>was featured in detail. Definitely had discovered that immediately after

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<v Speaker 2>being elected, mister Mitzi had created an elaborate financial arrangement

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<v Speaker 2>designed for secretly stashing assets outside Molta, a trust in

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<v Speaker 2>New Zealand containing a company based in Panama. Layers upon layers,

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:24.280
<v Speaker 2>hence the references to New Zealand lamb and the Panama hat.

0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 2>It looked exactly like something someone might choose to hide

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.840
<v Speaker 2>large amounts of assets or funds.

0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 4>The global financial equivalent of buying a brand new piggybank

0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:39.360
<v Speaker 4>and stashing it in a very very secret place, all

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.000
<v Speaker 4>on the day you get a new job.

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 1>February twenty fourth, twenty sixteen. Conrad Mitzi's so called shell

0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 1>company was never declared to Parliament in his annual declaration

0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 1>of assets as a government minister, not in twenty thirteen,

0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:59.200
<v Speaker 1>not in twenty fourteen, and not in twenty fifteen. And

0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.240
<v Speaker 1>if he had told you that he had incorporated it

0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.040
<v Speaker 1>in Panama, the many hundreds of people who work in

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.880
<v Speaker 1>financial services in Malta and the entire political class would

0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:09.560
<v Speaker 1>know exactly why he did this.

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.560
<v Speaker 2>These are expensive bigurebanks. They cost money to set up

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.080
<v Speaker 2>and cost money to run. It would make absolutely no

0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.280
<v Speaker 2>sense for someone to use an arrangement like this on

0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.560
<v Speaker 2>the other side of the world to store a nor

0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:26.960
<v Speaker 2>mil government salary, even a minister salary. This figure bank

0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:28.680
<v Speaker 2>was built for something larger.

0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 1>No accountant or financial consultant would ever advise a client

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.400
<v Speaker 1>to incorporate a company in Panama if there are no

0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 1>extraordinarily significant assets to hold, and beyond that, assets which

0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.440
<v Speaker 1>the client wishes to conceal from the authorities back home.

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Conrad Mitzi is in government now, but he is not

0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:49.840
<v Speaker 1>going to be in government forever.

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.800
<v Speaker 4>And daphnely didn't stop with mister Mitzi.

0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 1>February twenty seventh, twenty sixteen. Breaking now, Conrad Mitzi and

0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 1>PM's chief of staff Schmbrie have exactly the same asset

0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.200
<v Speaker 1>concealing structures in blacklisted Panama.

0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.520
<v Speaker 2>Remember Teach Cambrie, the Prime Minister's chief of staff, the

0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.800
<v Speaker 2>man who would later meet Melvin the Middleman for a

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 2>dodgy job and a selfie.

0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.359
<v Speaker 4>The Panama Papers revealed that he also had a secret

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.360
<v Speaker 4>piggybank ready to be filled up.

0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.720
<v Speaker 1>The agreements that made Schambrie beneficiary of his trust and

0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.199
<v Speaker 1>Mitzi's settler and protector of his were submitted together on

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:26.200
<v Speaker 1>the same date.

0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.240
<v Speaker 4>The same date, which is to say, immediately after the

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.080
<v Speaker 4>Labor Party in Malta, one power suggesting that this might

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 4>be a shared and coordinated effort to provide senior government

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 4>figures with a place to keep extra earnings, almost a

0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:43.280
<v Speaker 4>perk of the job.

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.000
<v Speaker 2>There was a third asset concealing structure revealed by Dafne

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 2>another pigabank set up at the same time for a

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.359
<v Speaker 2>third individual, but in this case those involved had covered

0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 2>their tracks even better, That individual's name was not put

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.879
<v Speaker 2>in writing anyone in the paperwork that has been made public.

0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:08.639
<v Speaker 2>One email says that the name will be communicated veribally

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 2>over a Skype video call.

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:18.200
<v Speaker 4>I mean nothing says honest democratic government like a secret

0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 4>financial arrangement owned by a person whose name can't be

0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:23.399
<v Speaker 4>put in riting.

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, probably not. An arrangement at your High Street bank

0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.320
<v Speaker 2>account would allow discovering the secret identity of the unknown

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.080
<v Speaker 2>third person. The man or woman whose name couldn't be

0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.880
<v Speaker 2>written down became a campaign in itself.

0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.200
<v Speaker 4>So I think there's something we should address here. For me,

0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:46.720
<v Speaker 4>the complexity of all these arrangements companies in Central America

0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:51.679
<v Speaker 4>structures from New Zealand bank accounts without names is something

0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:55.840
<v Speaker 4>that makes this kind of story really hard to report on.

0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.359
<v Speaker 4>And yet the secret bribes and kickbacks that politicians take

0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:04.560
<v Speaker 4>and businessmen give affect all our lives more than we

0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:10.800
<v Speaker 4>realize this. Invisible money changes how our elected representatives act,

0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.879
<v Speaker 4>who they obey, and twists and distorts the services we

0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.640
<v Speaker 4>receive from governments. But I know that even when you're

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 4>used to decoding this kind of corruption, the complexity can

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:22.200
<v Speaker 4>be overwhelming.

0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Which company is within, which trust or paid for? Which

0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:26.560
<v Speaker 2>are holding vehicle?

0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.040
<v Speaker 4>And when I've realized this, none of this confusion, this

0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.159
<v Speaker 4>fog machine is an accident. It's the whole point. The

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.720
<v Speaker 4>fog machine is wired to confuse the people who pay

0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:42.080
<v Speaker 4>to hide their ill gotten gains. This way, they want investigators,

0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.560
<v Speaker 4>reporters in the public to lose the thread, to get confused,

0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.640
<v Speaker 4>and to get bored, to give up, and to turn

0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 4>the page to a simpler, clearer news story. And a

0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:58.160
<v Speaker 4>lot of the time it works, and that allows the

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.040
<v Speaker 4>theft and corruption to and continue right under our noses

0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:04.280
<v Speaker 4>all the bloody time.

0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.440
<v Speaker 2>And that is exactly how it feels trying to pin

0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.520
<v Speaker 2>down corruption in my country. You know it's there, sometimes

0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.480
<v Speaker 2>you see something yourself, but so much complexity has been

0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.840
<v Speaker 2>created around it that it's very hard to see the

0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:21.760
<v Speaker 2>whole picture. And that was Deafney's genius and what made

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:25.240
<v Speaker 2>her so dangerous to certain people. She had the ability

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:27.840
<v Speaker 2>to dispel the confusion, to lay it out in terms

0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.639
<v Speaker 2>that everyone could understand, and that gave the offenders nowhere

0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:38.800
<v Speaker 2>to hide. Her writing about the Panama papers made her

0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.600
<v Speaker 2>one of the most influential voices in the country.

0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:43.480
<v Speaker 8>It's almost tangible in a sense.

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.080
<v Speaker 2>Here's Nicole Maelak, a journalist at the Multa Today newspaper.

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.080
<v Speaker 2>She was at university at the time. Definitely published the

0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Panama stories.

0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.639
<v Speaker 8>Everyone was talking about this because how can you not

0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.720
<v Speaker 8>talk about it when you have a minister your chief

0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:01.640
<v Speaker 8>of staff implicated and having sort of these shady accounts

0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.120
<v Speaker 8>and Panama everyone's talking about it.

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:08.159
<v Speaker 2>The opposition party called Defnie Discoveries the biggest scandal and

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:12.680
<v Speaker 2>Maltese political history and anti corruption protest marches were held

0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.320
<v Speaker 2>in the capital. Definitely attended as a hero.

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:19.800
<v Speaker 8>It didn't feel right to even like go to a

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.679
<v Speaker 8>university lecture because I remember going to university lecture and

0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.879
<v Speaker 8>the mood was there. We couldn't do this lecture because

0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:28.880
<v Speaker 8>all this was happening there was such a monumental sort

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:29.600
<v Speaker 8>of crisis.

0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.399
<v Speaker 2>For a moment it looked as though possibly the whole

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:37.200
<v Speaker 2>government might fall. But Prime Minister Joseph Mouscat didn't do

0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:42.920
<v Speaker 2>what Defni and the protesters were asking for. He didn't cave. Instead,

0:21:43.160 --> 0:21:44.520
<v Speaker 2>he stood firm.

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.480
<v Speaker 8>It raised eyebrows. Obviously on one hand, it's like, what

0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.639
<v Speaker 8>are they trying to hide? Like have you having secrets

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.520
<v Speaker 8>companies and Panama's definitely not on when you're when you're

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.720
<v Speaker 8>a sing minister. The Prime Minister at the time didn't

0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:01.280
<v Speaker 8>exactly them to resign or anything.

0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Conrad Mitzi at first claimed that he had done nothing

0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:11.600
<v Speaker 2>wrong in creating the Panama and New Zealand financial arrangements,

0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 2>but later admitted that he had not declared the arrangements properly,

0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:20.200
<v Speaker 2>a breach of Multie law. His explanations for his intentions

0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:25.960
<v Speaker 2>and aims continued to evolve, sometimes in contradictory ways. He

0:22:26.040 --> 0:22:30.200
<v Speaker 2>eventually apologized in Parliament for his actions. In the spring

0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.879
<v Speaker 2>of twenty sixteen, Mitzi was moved to a different cabinet post.

0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:37.040
<v Speaker 2>Keach Cambri had a different set of explanations for his

0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:39.440
<v Speaker 2>pig Bank. He said that his arrangements had been the

0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 2>result of decisions taken by his business advisers on his behalf,

0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.080
<v Speaker 2>and he stayed in post. There was no apology for

0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.600
<v Speaker 2>his part. Prime Minister Mouscart mostly handled the scandal using

0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:54.520
<v Speaker 2>the classic strategy for a populist leader. When pushed into

0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:58.639
<v Speaker 2>a corner, he claimed the whole scandal was invented, a

0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:02.240
<v Speaker 2>media conspiracy and attack on his supporters, the real people

0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.320
<v Speaker 2>of Malta sound familiar fake news.

0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:11.080
<v Speaker 4>When someone accuses you of a great crime, you don't

0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:15.320
<v Speaker 4>deny it. You switch on the fog machine. You create

0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.960
<v Speaker 4>multiple versions of reality. Some masses of people get confused,

0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:23.240
<v Speaker 4>and within those versions you get your creatures to deny it.

0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:26.320
<v Speaker 4>Take Stalin's man made famine in nineteen thirty three, which

0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:29.760
<v Speaker 4>kills so many people. No one to this day knows

0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:34.880
<v Speaker 4>how many. No one knows because no one counted. Malcolm Muggridge,

0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:37.160
<v Speaker 4>one of a handful of journalists who try to tell

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.680
<v Speaker 4>the truth about the famine, wrote, one of the most

0:23:39.760 --> 0:23:44.000
<v Speaker 4>monstrous crimes in history, so terrible that people in the

0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:49.360
<v Speaker 4>future will scarcely believe it ever happened. Likewise with Donald

0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:54.680
<v Speaker 4>Trump and the insurrection against the Capitol. Likewise with Vladimir

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:59.639
<v Speaker 4>Putin and the murder of Alexey Navalni. Populists don't deny

0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:03.600
<v Speaker 4>their crimes a switch of reality.

0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:09.360
<v Speaker 2>And like Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, Joseph Muscat went

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:13.480
<v Speaker 2>on the attack. Pro government blogs and TV shows focused

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:17.760
<v Speaker 2>even more intensively on demonizing Daphne as an enemy of

0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:22.280
<v Speaker 2>not just the government but of Malta itself. One recurring

0:24:22.359 --> 0:24:25.680
<v Speaker 2>theme in pro government TV and radio was to describe

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:29.359
<v Speaker 2>or depict her as a witch, an evil older women

0:24:29.440 --> 0:24:33.800
<v Speaker 2>with magical powers to harm others, particularly men. It's a

0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.840
<v Speaker 2>method that's been used to put women back in their

0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.439
<v Speaker 2>place for thousands of years, and it's still going strong today.

0:24:40.880 --> 0:24:43.840
<v Speaker 2>But the approach of trying to discredit Daphne was harder

0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.520
<v Speaker 2>to sustain when the International Panama Papers team published their

0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:54.680
<v Speaker 2>own findings and confirmed everything that she had written. When

0:24:54.720 --> 0:24:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Conrad Mitzi was eventually moved to a different post, Prime

0:24:57.920 --> 0:25:03.159
<v Speaker 2>Minister Mouscat explained his DESI the Panama affair hurt us

0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:07.320
<v Speaker 2>politically and personally. He said, although there was nothing illegal,

0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 2>we expect better behavior and definitely had some feedback for

0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:13.959
<v Speaker 2>those who questioned her integrity.

0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:18.440
<v Speaker 1>March second, twenty sixteen, excuse my language. Here, but nothing

0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:22.920
<v Speaker 1>else will suffice in this ridiculous situation. Total bollocks. Why

0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:26.240
<v Speaker 1>don't these just go on themselves? How I got the

0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:30.240
<v Speaker 1>information is irrelevant. What counts is the information itself. These

0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:34.320
<v Speaker 1>asset concealing structures, once open and totally secret, could be

0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:38.480
<v Speaker 1>used for the receipt of bribes, kickbacks and backhanders. Give up,

0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:40.600
<v Speaker 1>it's over, big time.

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:46.160
<v Speaker 4>Sadly, it wasn't over. It was only just the beginning.

0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:51.160
<v Speaker 4>But somewhere in Malta, Daphne's future killer, mister alleged Mastermind,

0:25:51.640 --> 0:25:55.480
<v Speaker 4>was already taking notes. She'd got closer to his interests

0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:57.080
<v Speaker 4>than she realized.

0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:14.440
<v Speaker 2>To understand a little better just what definitely was discovering

0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:17.520
<v Speaker 2>about this country. And so just a little trip to

0:26:17.560 --> 0:26:20.919
<v Speaker 2>a beach in the north of Molta, a beach with

0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:23.879
<v Speaker 2>a view of an island with a lot of history.

0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:28.520
<v Speaker 4>So beautiful day. There's an island with barely a building

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:32.200
<v Speaker 4>on it, and just the chop there's an old kind

0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:36.359
<v Speaker 4>of medieval citadel. Manuel, tell me this island in the middle.

0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:37.560
<v Speaker 6>What's it called so?

0:26:37.720 --> 0:26:41.000
<v Speaker 2>And what is it is called? Camuna? Probably a corruption

0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:44.639
<v Speaker 2>of cumin. Maybe it used to grow there. It's an

0:26:44.680 --> 0:26:48.080
<v Speaker 2>island right in the middle of the channel between the

0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.840
<v Speaker 2>larger island of the Motese archipelago, Malta and the smaller one, Gozo.

0:26:52.480 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 4>So why do you're checking me here? There's some kind

0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 4>of historical metaphor you're about to hit me over the

0:26:59.080 --> 0:26:59.320
<v Speaker 4>head with.

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:02.240
<v Speaker 2>I know you I am. So you see on the

0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:04.560
<v Speaker 2>side of the island. You see how the sea has

0:27:04.560 --> 0:27:09.400
<v Speaker 2>eroded caves into the island, And that used to be

0:27:09.480 --> 0:27:13.240
<v Speaker 2>for some time in the sixteenth especially the seventeenth, but

0:27:13.359 --> 0:27:17.680
<v Speaker 2>in the eighteenth centuries a hideout for pirates. They'd be

0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:21.440
<v Speaker 2>hiding stuff there. In any case, it was a pirate cove,

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:23.159
<v Speaker 2>a place of shelter.

0:27:24.080 --> 0:27:28.120
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So I get the history lesson, But why exactly

0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:29.800
<v Speaker 4>if you check me here today?

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:33.680
<v Speaker 2>Because I think this story from two three hundred years

0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:38.000
<v Speaker 2>ago anticipates a bit what happens now. We still have

0:27:38.560 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 2>treasures that need hiding, and the caves of today are

0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:46.439
<v Speaker 2>a little bit different. So if you think trusts and

0:27:46.520 --> 0:27:51.000
<v Speaker 2>financial instruments and offshore banking is complicated, just think of

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:51.640
<v Speaker 2>a dark cave.

0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:53.159
<v Speaker 4>It's a good place to hide it.

0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:57.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a good place to hide for a while.

0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:01.520
<v Speaker 2>Let the waters come down. People look away, and then

0:28:01.560 --> 0:28:03.040
<v Speaker 2>you can come out in the middle of the night

0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:05.800
<v Speaker 2>and take the stuff where you want it. You're parking,

0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:08.800
<v Speaker 2>you're stolen stuff for a while, keep it hidden, and

0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:10.399
<v Speaker 2>then bring it out when it's safe to do so.

0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:14.080
<v Speaker 4>Aha. So listen, I mean, if we went across and

0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:17.399
<v Speaker 4>found these eighteenth century caves, you'd hear an echo, and

0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:20.040
<v Speaker 4>there's an echo of the past. So the whole country,

0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:23.320
<v Speaker 4>the whole archipelago, is a place where there are echoes

0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:25.960
<v Speaker 4>from the past. And if you listen carefully enough to

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.879
<v Speaker 4>those echoes from the past, I tell you something about

0:28:28.960 --> 0:28:33.119
<v Speaker 4>now the twenty first century. More they do time for

0:28:33.200 --> 0:28:42.240
<v Speaker 4>an ice cream.

0:28:42.280 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 2>So years after the Panama Paper scandal, after Dafnie's death,

0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:49.440
<v Speaker 2>after the Definite Projects send up their bet signal for

0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:54.600
<v Speaker 2>other international journalists to start investigating her stories, Bastiano Bermeyer

0:28:54.960 --> 0:28:59.560
<v Speaker 2>and the Definitey Project team find they had a problem Malta,

0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:04.320
<v Speaker 2>too many pirates and too many hidden caves to look into.

0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:08.520
<v Speaker 6>The big problem that we were facing in Morta after

0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 6>Dughness murder was that there were so many people who

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:20.560
<v Speaker 6>would want her dad essentially where to start, which is

0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:25.120
<v Speaker 6>a crazy thing for this small island. So when we

0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:30.840
<v Speaker 6>looked around and we thought would have a motive. You know,

0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:35.920
<v Speaker 6>easily we counted to four or five, six very influential

0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:39.280
<v Speaker 6>figures who did have a good motive to want her dad.

0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:42.320
<v Speaker 4>This is the same culture shop for I experienced when

0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:44.960
<v Speaker 4>I first learned about this story. And in fact we

0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:48.640
<v Speaker 4>know that mister alleged Mastermind used this idea to try

0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 4>and reassure Melvin the Middleman at times, telling him that

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:55.640
<v Speaker 4>Definitely had offended so many people that they would never

0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:57.000
<v Speaker 4>find the real killers.

0:29:57.360 --> 0:30:00.800
<v Speaker 6>The biggest issue was that we were following four or

0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:04.280
<v Speaker 6>five stories at the same time, and literally each of

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:07.840
<v Speaker 6>those stories could have been the one that was responsibly

0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:11.160
<v Speaker 6>the end for her killing, because one of the persons

0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:15.360
<v Speaker 6>involved in that story would have said, it's enough now,

0:30:15.520 --> 0:30:17.760
<v Speaker 6>we need to stop her now for good.

0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:21.800
<v Speaker 2>But the scale of the task didn't deter the Definite

0:30:21.880 --> 0:30:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Project's investigators. Teams from the New York Times, Britain's Guardian, newspaper,

0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Francis Paper of Record, Lamonde, and Italy's La Republica, the

0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:35.680
<v Speaker 2>news agency Reuters and others were all digging at the

0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:36.480
<v Speaker 2>same time.

0:30:36.800 --> 0:30:40.520
<v Speaker 4>And they did make progress. Stories that Definitely had hinted

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:44.440
<v Speaker 4>that were developed and taken further investigations into a corrupt

0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:48.600
<v Speaker 4>scheme to allow wealthy foreigners to buy mult citizenship, for example,

0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:53.120
<v Speaker 4>and revelations about corrupt gas fials with the ruling elite

0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:54.360
<v Speaker 4>in Azerbaijan.

0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:58.440
<v Speaker 2>In virtually every major policy initiative that was launched by

0:30:58.480 --> 0:31:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Joseph Moscart's government after it came to power in twenty thirteen,

0:31:02.720 --> 0:31:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Deafney reported shady dealings. Considered Defnie's reporting on the transfer

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 2>of the management of some of Molta's public hospitals to

0:31:10.600 --> 0:31:14.800
<v Speaker 2>private operators. Basically, the government would pay the salaries for

0:31:14.920 --> 0:31:18.440
<v Speaker 2>medical staff and pay the new managers a daily fee

0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 2>to refurbish the hospitals and provide medical care. Defney had

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:24.760
<v Speaker 2>her own views about how the health system should be run,

0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:27.680
<v Speaker 2>but that wasn't the bit that bothered her most. The

0:31:27.720 --> 0:31:30.720
<v Speaker 2>government transferred the running of the hospitals to a shady

0:31:30.880 --> 0:31:36.360
<v Speaker 2>sacials company, its owners, unknown, its financial basis and mystery,

0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:39.840
<v Speaker 2>and with no evidence of any experience in running hospitals

0:31:39.960 --> 0:31:43.320
<v Speaker 2>anywhere in the world. Muscat and his government promised the

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:47.280
<v Speaker 2>privatization of the hospital's management would improve the quality of

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.160
<v Speaker 2>healthcare for mortice people. Not what you'd expect socialists to

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.880
<v Speaker 2>be saying, but Muscat was no ordinary socialist. There were

0:31:54.920 --> 0:32:00.480
<v Speaker 2>promises of rebuilt facilities, world class medical care services. Oh good,

0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:02.640
<v Speaker 2>people would be flying to more that to have their

0:32:02.640 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 2>scheduled surgeries done here.

0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 4>Jafneg denounced the scheme as a sham, a cover for

0:32:08.200 --> 0:32:12.160
<v Speaker 4>some behind the scenes swindle. She didn't have all the details,

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:15.120
<v Speaker 4>but as usual, her intuition was on the money to

0:32:15.240 --> 0:32:18.040
<v Speaker 4>coin a phrase. By the time she was killed, the

0:32:18.080 --> 0:32:22.480
<v Speaker 4>hospitals had got barely a fresh lick of paint. Wards

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:26.640
<v Speaker 4>were abandoned, doors collapsed, roofs leaked. Months after Daphney was killed,

0:32:26.960 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 4>the mysterious managers of the hospitals went bust. The governments

0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:34.200
<v Speaker 4>had a contractual right to claim the hospital's back, but

0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:35.239
<v Speaker 4>they didn't do that.

0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:40.240
<v Speaker 2>No, the faceless and ostensibly bankrupt managers of the hospitals

0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:44.040
<v Speaker 2>were allowed to sell the concession on. The new managers

0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:46.760
<v Speaker 2>would be a recognized healthcare brand from America.

0:32:47.280 --> 0:32:49.560
<v Speaker 4>Did the hospitals get their fresh lick of paint?

0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Barely a drop? That's at the same time as between them,

0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:57.320
<v Speaker 2>the first private hospital managers and their American successors collected

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:00.680
<v Speaker 2>nearly half a billion euro in payments from the mortis authorities.

0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 4>In those first six months after Daphne was killed, reporters

0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:11.920
<v Speaker 4>from the Daphne Project found the stories about passports for crooks,

0:33:12.280 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 4>blindingly expensive gas steals, and abandoned hospitals interesting, to be sure,

0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:21.640
<v Speaker 4>but there was nothing that pointed clearly to the real

0:33:21.720 --> 0:33:26.600
<v Speaker 4>culprit in Daphne's murder. For now, mister alleged mastermind could

0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:32.840
<v Speaker 4>rest easy. The stalemate must have been frustrating for the

0:33:32.920 --> 0:33:36.360
<v Speaker 4>Daphne Project and Daphne's other supporters like you Manuel.

0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:39.480
<v Speaker 2>It was it almost seemed that the grand strategy of

0:33:39.560 --> 0:33:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Daphne's family to use international pressure and international journalism to

0:33:44.400 --> 0:33:49.160
<v Speaker 2>find Daphne's killer was leading nowhere. On that one measure,

0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.880
<v Speaker 2>the bat signal hadn't worked. But there was one question

0:33:52.920 --> 0:33:56.120
<v Speaker 2>that hadn't yet been explored, and it also concerned the

0:33:56.160 --> 0:34:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Panama Papers. Daphanie's reporting had proved that two senior government

0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:06.480
<v Speaker 2>ministers and another unnamed person had all simultaneously created elaborate

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:10.560
<v Speaker 2>hidden piggybanks to hide assets in. But what she hadn't

0:34:10.600 --> 0:34:14.480
<v Speaker 2>revealed was why, What was the big payday that these

0:34:14.520 --> 0:34:19.840
<v Speaker 2>politicians were expecting to receive and from whom? And solving

0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:24.840
<v Speaker 2>that mystery will lead Daphne's family and Deafney Project straight

0:34:24.880 --> 0:34:27.480
<v Speaker 2>to the man who is believed to have ordered her murder.

0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:36.120
<v Speaker 2>The man we are calling for now, mister alleged Mastermind.

0:34:36.840 --> 0:34:41.400
<v Speaker 2>For now, though mister alleged Mastermind has other problems, problems

0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:43.680
<v Speaker 2>with the man he allegedly hired to do the killing.

0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:50.600
<v Speaker 4>The strain of keeping this murder secret is beginning to tell,

0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:56.200
<v Speaker 4>and the once unimaginable betrayal is now coming.

0:34:57.200 --> 0:35:06.400
<v Speaker 6>That's next.

0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Crooks Everywhere is a production of iHeart Podcasts, Topic Studios

0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:19.880
<v Speaker 2>and Vespucci. It's reported and hosted by me Manuel Delia

0:35:20.280 --> 0:35:24.640
<v Speaker 2>and John Sweeney. The senior producer is Leo Hornack. The

0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:29.320
<v Speaker 2>producer is Maddie Hickish. Krish Denesh Kumar is the assistant producer.

0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:33.760
<v Speaker 2>The story editors are Emma Federill, Matt Willis, and Philippa Geering.

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:38.600
<v Speaker 2>The managing producers are Thomas Curry and Rachel Byrne. The

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:41.800
<v Speaker 2>voice of daf Nick Carvana Galizia is played by Ciena Miller,

0:35:42.440 --> 0:35:47.080
<v Speaker 2>acting direction by Christopher Houten, Multie voices by Mikael basma

0:35:47.160 --> 0:35:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Jan and Pierre staff Raj. The executive producers are Johnny

0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Galvin and Daniel Turken at Vespucci, Christi Gressman at Topic Studios,

0:35:56.680 --> 0:36:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Katina Norvell and Nikki Etoor at iHeart Podcasts, Encienna Miller

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Marketing Leaders, David Wassermann. Audio recording by Tom Berry at

0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:09.760
<v Speaker 2>Wardoor Studios. Audio mix and sound design by Joel Cox.

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:15.799
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to Andrew Botchcardona Alessandra di Crespo, Eddie Isles,

0:36:15.840 --> 0:36:17.320
<v Speaker 2>and Andrew Carna Galizia