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Speaker 1: Look, there are fifty former national intelligence folks who said

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Speaker 1: that what this he's accusing me of is a Russian plan.

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Speaker 1: Nobody believes it except them his and his good friend Rudijiolli.

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Speaker 2: You mean the laptop is now another Russia Russia Russia hopes.

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Speaker 3: Hey you that's exactly what this is? Why exactly what

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Speaker 3: is this? Where he's going?

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Speaker 4: Here we go again with the Russia.

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Speaker 3: I'm John Ceipher and I'm Jerry O'Shea. I served in

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Speaker 3: the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, living undercover

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Speaker 3: all around the world.

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Speaker 5: And in my thirty three years with the CIA, I

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Speaker 5: served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we

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Speaker 3: created conspiracies in our operations.

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Speaker 5: We got people to believe things that weren't true.

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Speaker 3: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the

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Speaker 3: news almost every day.

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Speaker 5: We'll break them down for you to determine whether they

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Speaker 5: could be real or whether we're being manipulated.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Mission Implausible. So in this episode, we are

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Speaker 3: going to continue our discussion with Adam Davidson about the

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Speaker 3: Biden laptop.

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Speaker 5: But keep in mind we recorded this before progosion. The

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Speaker 5: head of the Wagner group mysteriously died in a plane crash.

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Speaker 2: Jerry, I'm not sure it's that mysterious.

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Speaker 3: Not everything is a conspiracy, right.

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Speaker 2: So guys, you're not just watching this, you're actually a

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Speaker 2: little bit part of this story.

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Speaker 5: We are the most junior, least important cocks in this machinery.

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Speaker 5: I'll tell you that right now.

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Speaker 2: Believe me, I would much rather talk to anyone else involved.

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Speaker 3: You can't fight it. You should fight people who are

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Speaker 3: more important than us. Yeah, we're part of the Dirty

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Speaker 3: fifty one, if you will.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what are the dirty fifty one?

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what the New York Post calls The former

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Speaker 3: intelligence officers just signed a letter in the lead up

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Speaker 3: to the twenty twenty election. So, as we talked about earlier,

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Speaker 3: this story of a laptop shows up right a few

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Speaker 3: weeks before the election and is tied to Rudy Giuliani,

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Speaker 3: and it's tied to Hunter Biden and Ukraine a number

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Speaker 3: of other issues. And as Jerry mentioned before, it sort

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Speaker 3: of looked as if this was meant to be some

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Speaker 3: sort of October surprise, similar to what the Russians got

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Speaker 3: up to before the twenty sixteen election. So a group

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Speaker 3: of former intelligence professionals wrote a public letter that said, essentially,

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Speaker 3: be careful here because we saw what the Russians did

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Speaker 3: before the previous election, and there are earmarks of what's

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Speaker 3: happening here that could be part of a disinformation campaign.

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Speaker 3: In other words, there's stuff that we don't know what's

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Speaker 3: happening here. It involves Rudy Giuliani, who's been involved with

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Speaker 3: Russian intelligence officers in Ukraine, and so therefore be careful.

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Speaker 3: This letter was signed by both Jerry and I, but

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Speaker 3: also by people far more senior and general James Clapper,

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Speaker 3: the former Director of National Intelligence from NSA and CIA

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Speaker 3: Director Mike Hayden, CIA Director and Secretary Defense Liane Panetta,

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Speaker 3: former CIA director John Brennan, Michael Morel and John mcgloffin,

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Speaker 3: who both were former DCI or deputies of the CIA. Essentially,

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Speaker 3: even to this day, if you read the letter, it's

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Speaker 3: not really saying anything that anybody can really argue with.

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Speaker 3: This is essentially just a public warning, and it probably

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Speaker 3: have fallen away. But what happened is in the presidential debate,

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Speaker 3: which happened a few days later, Donald Trump brought up

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Speaker 3: Hunter Biden and talked about Hunter Biden and Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: in response, said that this fifty one former senior intelligence

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Speaker 3: officer signed a letter saying that the laptop was Russian disinformation.

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Speaker 3: Now that's not exactly what the letter said, not exol

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Speaker 3: what it says, not at all what it said. However,

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Speaker 3: when Biden ended up winning the election, disgruntled Republicans and

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Speaker 3: others tried to use this to say, hey, these people

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Speaker 3: must have been in cahoots with the Biden administration and

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Speaker 3: therefore used their former positions to try to influence an election.

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Speaker 3: And so now they are hearings supposedly to look into this.

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Speaker 5: The hearings are about the mischaracterizations of the letter. So

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Speaker 5: the actual letter simply says caveat emptor we don't actually

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Speaker 5: say it's disinformation, which implies that we know it's like

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Speaker 5: made up and wrong. We're talking about malign influence in information.

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Speaker 5: That's where it could be true but was put out

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Speaker 5: at a certain time. It could be mostly true, but

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Speaker 5: cherry picked or curated. And we're basically saying we don't

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Speaker 5: know what this is, nor do we advocate for Donald

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Speaker 5: Trump or for Joe Biden, but we're simply saying, don't

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Speaker 5: take this at face value, have a look at it,

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Speaker 5: and let's get the facts first.

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Speaker 2: I fully understand what you saw as the risk, and

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Speaker 2: you seem to still think is a risk. There's a

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Speaker 2: few different scenarios that pop into my head. One scenario

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Speaker 2: is there was an explicit effort by Russian intelligence to

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Speaker 2: swear our election by taking accurate information from a laptop

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Speaker 2: and spreading it. Another is taking information from a laptop,

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Speaker 2: manipulating it to make it look more incriminating, or selectively

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Speaker 2: releasing it out of context. Another thing is maybe they

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Speaker 2: made the whole thing up. Until you answer some of

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Speaker 2: these questions about the provedance the history of this thing,

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Speaker 2: you just can't answer any of that. It is something

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Speaker 2: like as a journalist that we've really struggled with, because

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Speaker 2: the instinct of a journalist is if someone gives you

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Speaker 2: information and it's at all good and checkable, you go

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Speaker 2: with it. But what do you do if the even

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Speaker 2: if it's accurate, but the person who gave it to

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Speaker 2: you gave it to you with malign intent. It's complicated.

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Speaker 2: And what's kind of striking is it's now more than

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Speaker 2: two years later and we still can't answer a lot

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Speaker 2: of those questions.

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Speaker 3: Well, Adam, I want to admit here and now that

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Speaker 3: I too have a laptop, and I use that laptop

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Speaker 3: to look up the letter, which I haven't looked at

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Speaker 3: for quite a long time now. Yeah, and I just

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Speaker 3: want to point to one part of the letter here,

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Speaker 3: which says, quote, we want to emphasize that we do

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Speaker 3: not know if the emails provided to the New York

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Speaker 3: Post by President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani are genuine

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Speaker 3: or not, and that we do not have evidence of

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Speaker 3: Russian involvement, just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious

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Speaker 3: that the Russian government played a significant role in this case.

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Speaker 3: If we are right, this is Russia trying to influence

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Speaker 3: all Americans voting this will and we believe strongly that

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Speaker 3: Americans need to be aware of this.

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Speaker 5: So a few things happened that push this letter into

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Speaker 5: the spotlight. First, during the second Biden Trump debate, Biden

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Speaker 5: said something, even though he mischaracterized our letter a bit,

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Speaker 5: it sounded something like.

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Speaker 3: This, I want to stay on the issue of race.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about from Hill President Trump.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Race right now, and I do want to stay on

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Speaker 1: the issue of race, President Trump, you have to respond

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Speaker 1: to that. Please, look, very are fifty former national intelligence

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Speaker 1: folks who said that what this he's accusing me of

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Speaker 1: is a Russian plant. They have said that this has

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Speaker 1: all the four five former heads of the CIA, both

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Speaker 1: parties say what he's saying is a bunch of garbage.

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Speaker 1: Nobody believes it except them his and his good friend

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Speaker 1: Rudy Gilli.

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Speaker 5: You mean the laptop is now another Russia Russia Russia hoax.

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Speaker 3: You that's exactly what. Exactly what is is where he's

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Speaker 3: going is Russia. I want to stay on the you

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Speaker 3: have here.

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Speaker 6: We go again with the Russia.

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Speaker 5: So, John, the first thing it strikes me and listening

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Speaker 5: to this is it's two bald guys fighting over a comb.

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Speaker 5: Neither one of them has got it right right, they don't.

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Speaker 5: It's not what the letters said.

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Speaker 3: Well, politics is about simplifying things for the people who

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Speaker 3: want to hear what you have to say. And so yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's frustrating for people like us who tried to carefully

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Speaker 3: look at this and provide some context and background.

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Speaker 2: So I'm gonna a little bit push back on the

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Speaker 2: both sides. I think one of the guys, is really bald.

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Speaker 2: The other does have a few whisky hairs on this subject,

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Speaker 2: A few strands.

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Speaker 3: All, all right, I'll grant you that. Yeah, But in

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Speaker 3: this case, what but Biden did though, is he mischaracterized it,

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Speaker 3: which gave Trump actually a decent end to pit back.

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Speaker 2: So I want to get at White. You guys had

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Speaker 2: this suspicion. Can you talk a bit about Russian active measures,

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Speaker 2: Russian information campaigns, disinformation campaigns.

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Speaker 5: Odd's the expert, So let me jump in first. Pregosion

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Speaker 5: has said recently that he was involved. He's saying this publicly.

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Speaker 5: He was involved in trying to manipulate our elections in

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Speaker 5: twenty sixteen. He was involved in trying to manipulate our

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Speaker 5: elections in twenty twenty, and he will continue to do so.

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Speaker 5: So the Russians have admitted that they were doing so

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Speaker 5: on behalf of Donald Trump. So turn it over to

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Speaker 5: the expert though, that's John.

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Speaker 2: Although this goes back before twenty sixteen, right, this was

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Speaker 2: not some new tactic that showed up.

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Speaker 3: Well, let me go back to the nineteenth century. If

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Speaker 3: we remember the names Lev Bronstein used up, Druw gosh

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Speaker 3: Vili and Vladimir Ulyanov will know where we're coming from here. Well,

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Speaker 3: I'm joking, but those names are actually those are the

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Speaker 3: real names for Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin. And it's a

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Speaker 3: good reminder because the Soviet Union was founded by people

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Speaker 3: who operated as terrorists, as underground as people trying to

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Speaker 3: destroy the Artist regime and we're in and out of prisons.

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Speaker 3: And so when they took over and created this new

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Speaker 3: Soviet Union, first thing they did is create a security service,

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Speaker 3: and coming from the roots of being essentially underground operatives

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Speaker 3: and terrorists, their Security Service started out almost as a

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Speaker 3: terrorist organization which would tried to weaken their enemies from within,

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Speaker 3: and they used deception and subversion and disinformation because they

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Speaker 3: couldn't take their enemies on head on. You know, even

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Speaker 3: Churchill at the time said, you know, we need to

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Speaker 3: strangle the Bolshevik baby in its cradle. They knew that

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Speaker 3: they couldn't take on the European powers at the time,

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Speaker 3: and so they created this, you know, very strong security

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Speaker 3: service which kept internal opposition at bay and tried to

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Speaker 3: weaken their external enemies from inside. Why that's relevant is

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Speaker 3: because essentially the subsequent security services, the KGB and others

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Speaker 3: have all followed that same playbook. It's been the same

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Speaker 3: thing that's gone on. And Vladimir Putin is a career

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Speaker 3: KGB officer, has been involved in years and years and

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Speaker 3: decades and decades of this same kind of subversion and

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Speaker 3: disinformation and deception and agitation and all of these things

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Speaker 3: which they've been doing to us for years. Before social

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Speaker 3: media could spread fake stories, the Russians created fake stories

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Speaker 3: like that the United States and the Pentagon created the

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Speaker 3: AIDS virus, and they spread that around the world and

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Speaker 3: made its way into major media markets when it was

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Speaker 3: a completely invented story. And this happened to us again

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Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen. By twenty sixteen, the US intelligence services

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Speaker 3: and others have been so focused on terrorism that I

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Speaker 3: think we didn't put the resources into looking at what

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Speaker 3: the Russians are up to. And I think we're sort

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Speaker 3: of caught by surprise when we find out that the

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Speaker 3: Russians were using heavy efforts in social media that pushed

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Speaker 3: in information. In fact, several different Russian security services hacked

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Speaker 3: into the Democratic National Committee to steal all of their

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Speaker 3: emails and others and then publicize them. Of course, there

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Speaker 3: was a number of groups you know the Muller Report,

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Speaker 3: this Senate Intelligence Committee and others who looked into it

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Speaker 3: and have said definitively that the Russians tried to influence

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Speaker 3: our elections. They tried to do that on behalf of

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Speaker 3: the Donald Trump campaign because Donald Trump was the chaos candidate,

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Speaker 3: and chaos benefits the Russians. Anything that weakens the United

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Speaker 3: States or keeps US inwardly focused benefits them, so they

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Speaker 3: can mess around in Europe and in their neighborhood. And

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Speaker 3: we've seen what the outcome of that is in Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: And for similar reasons to the early Bolsheviks, we see

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Speaker 2: if Russia can't be as successful in Ukraine as they

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Speaker 2: had hoped militarily, they clearly couldn't take us on in

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Speaker 2: a head to head fight. But this is a way

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Speaker 2: to use their oil well.

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Speaker 3: To weaken your enemies from the inside if you can't

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Speaker 3: take them on head out. And that's why I brought

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Speaker 3: up the term terrorism and why the early sort of

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Speaker 3: Bolsheviks were terrorists. That's how terrorists operated. They look for

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Speaker 3: your weaknesses and try to exploit them.

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Speaker 5: Let's take a breather and back in a moment. Glad

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Speaker 5: to have everybody back let's go back down.

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Speaker 6: The rabbit hole.

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Speaker 2: We've done it too, right. We did it in Honduras

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Speaker 2: in the fifties. We did it in Iran where we

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Speaker 2: spread I mean Honduras, we kind of spread this fake war.

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Speaker 2: But don't other nations, including US use disinformation sometimes.

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Speaker 3: This is often the pushback that we get from people

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Speaker 3: who don't follow these things, and I think in some

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Speaker 3: ways it's certainly true. There's two points I'd like to make.

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Speaker 3: One is after World War Two, when we had not

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Speaker 3: had a national intelligence service prior to that, we created one,

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Speaker 3: and the fear of massive Soviet troops taking over Europe

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Speaker 3: Stalin with the bomb our new intelligence services thought we

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Speaker 3: had to fight fire with fire, and we had to

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Speaker 3: play the Russian game, and so we did get into

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Speaker 3: the game of disinformation and trying to subvert countries that

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Speaker 3: we didn't like. Now we found over time that that

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Speaker 3: actually one number one, we weren't very good at it.

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Speaker 3: And number two, it isn't really the strength of our country.

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Speaker 3: The strength of our country is sort of art. We're

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Speaker 3: a vision for others that we have our open democracy

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Speaker 3: and open diplomacy, such that by the early nineteen seventies

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Speaker 3: there were significant reforms in the intelligence community. There was

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Speaker 3: of investigations, There was a big change in the intelligence community,

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Speaker 3: and they created congressional oversight. They changed some of the

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Speaker 3: laws about the United States can't get involved in assassination,

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Speaker 3: It can't get involved in some of these things, so

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Speaker 3: much so that nowadays the US is really not in

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Speaker 3: that game. And you know, you can argue that in

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Speaker 3: some ways it's worse if we're trying to overthrow other countries.

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Speaker 3: We do it overtly, we go into a rocker Afghanistan

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Speaker 3: or what have you, with our military as opposed to

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Speaker 3: trying to subvert from the inside. That's another discussion for

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Speaker 3: another time. But our intelligence services largely don't play the

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Speaker 3: game in the same way that the Russians do.

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Speaker 5: I think it's important it's illegal for US intelligence agencies,

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Speaker 5: for example, to use journalists as cover or to use

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Speaker 5: journalists in the English speaking world. The Russians know that,

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Speaker 5: and that's one reason I think since Donilov was arrested

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Speaker 5: the journalists in nineteen eighty six, journalists have been left alone,

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Speaker 5: the English speaking journalists in Russia up until the Wall

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Speaker 5: Street Journal journals was arrested. Where we did get involved

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Speaker 5: in information operations. Radio Free Europe was started out as

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Speaker 5: a CIA operation was so successful that CIA withdrew from

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Speaker 5: it as it self finance. That actually was one of

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Speaker 5: the most powerful weapons during the Cold War, and that

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Speaker 5: broadcast truth inside to the you know, real journalism, real

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Speaker 5: truth inside, and that was very effective. And I think

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Speaker 5: that is something that we've learned from inside of the

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Speaker 5: intelligence agencies. Truth has been more powerful than lies in

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Speaker 5: the long run.

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Speaker 2: All right, So what's happening with you guys? Are you

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Speaker 2: like under investigation by Congress by Jim Jordan? What is

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Speaker 2: happening right now?

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Speaker 3: Well, let me take a quick step back. So what's

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Speaker 3: happened is with the twenty twenty two elections and the

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Speaker 3: Republicans taking over the House Representatives, a number of committees

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Speaker 3: were put together by Republicans like Jim Jordan and others,

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Speaker 3: and one of them is called the Committee on the

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Speaker 3: Weaponization of the Federal Government. And what they are trying

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Speaker 3: to do is make the case publicly that somehow Democrats

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Speaker 3: have used agencies like the CIA, the FBI, Justice Department

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Speaker 3: to go after conservatives. There's a number of things that

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Speaker 3: they're doing here. We're one small piece of it. So

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Speaker 3: one small piece of Jim Jordan's committee is to look

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Speaker 3: at the Hunter Biden letter, the letter that the fifty

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Speaker 3: one Ormer intelligence officers signed in the lead up to

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty election, And as part of that process,

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Speaker 3: all of us received a letter from Jim Jordan's committee

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Speaker 3: saying that we had to share whatever internal correspondence we

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Speaker 3: have in terms of what we did to sign the

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Speaker 3: letter and who we talked to, and then separately be

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Speaker 3: available to be questioned by the committee. Even if you're

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Speaker 3: taking on facebat that they're looking at the federal government

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Speaker 3: and using its power inappropriate ways. Not a single person

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Speaker 3: who signed that letter was working in the federal government.

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Speaker 3: All of us had been retired for some of us

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Speaker 3: for many years and some of us for a few years.

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Speaker 3: So you know, we were prior citizens with no access

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Speaker 3: to secret information.

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Speaker 5: Not only were we private citizens, we were also people

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Speaker 5: men and women who had devoted our lives to protecting

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Speaker 5: the constitution. Right. I never saw Jim Jordan in Afghanistan,

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Speaker 5: did you, I never saw Paul Gosar in Iraq. I

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Speaker 5: never saw any of these people and all the you know,

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Speaker 5: some of the rough, dangerous places that we volunteered to

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Speaker 5: serve and to serve our country, to protect the Constitution,

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Speaker 5: which is what we pledged to do. And yet these

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Speaker 5: people who've never done any of this, they're the ones

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Speaker 5: to call us up and try to intimidate us for

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Speaker 5: expressing our First Amendment rights. And I think it's a

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Speaker 5: really dangerous step in the wrong direction.

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Speaker 3: None of us were partisans. None of us ever talked

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Speaker 3: about Democrat versus Republican party politics. Why we served in

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Speaker 3: the agency. We worked for the United States government, and

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Speaker 3: we were professionals, and so that doesn't mean that we

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Speaker 3: don't have a right to express opinions after you retire.

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Speaker 3: They're finding that there isn't much there, and I think

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Speaker 3: they're finding it's already being a failure before they've even

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Speaker 3: come to our issue.

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Speaker 5: Right, And I think it's important to note people should

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Speaker 5: read the letter to actually see what if they're interested.

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Speaker 5: But the letter doesn't advocate for Joe Biden to become president.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't advocate for or against Trump, for or against Biden.

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Speaker 5: It's simply questions whether or not the Hunter Biden laptop issue,

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Speaker 5: what the facts are, and the facts were and continued

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Speaker 5: to be disputed.

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Speaker 3: Well, what we come to is we are worried about

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Speaker 3: foreign interference in the United States, Russian active measures, and frankly,

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Speaker 3: the Chinese are up to the game pretty heavily now.

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Speaker 3: And so I think as Americans and as American national

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Speaker 3: security professionals, that's what we care about. You know, if

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Speaker 3: Americans elect one president or one candidate over another, that's

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Speaker 3: the way the system should work. But if a foreign

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Speaker 3: adversary is putting their finger on the scale, that's something

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Speaker 3: I think we should try to call out. And what's

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Speaker 3: unfortunate now is there are people who are seeing a

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Speaker 3: benefit to having a foreign interference because it may benefit

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Speaker 3: their party over the other party. And frankly, that's as

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Speaker 3: skeazy as anything you find on the Biden laptop.

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Speaker 5: That's on America. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. So

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Speaker 5: there is Paul Manifort, who was Donald Trump's campaign manager.

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Speaker 5: He himself has admitted publicly that he was providing to

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Speaker 5: a Russian intelligence officer, secretly providing him inside information on

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Speaker 5: the Trump campaign that the Russians could use to assist

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Speaker 5: the campaign. He was providing polling.

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Speaker 3: To a Russian intelligence officer, and he's provided that afforation

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Speaker 3: to a Russian intelligence officer saying, does this information help

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Speaker 3: defer my eighteen million dollar debt to an oligarch?

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Speaker 5: Right, then you've got Michael Flynn, who was for a

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Speaker 5: little while that they as a security advisor to the

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Speaker 5: president who before that, So Hunter Biden received fifty thousand

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Speaker 5: dollars from Barissima per month. I don't think he earned it.

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Speaker 5: I think it was clearly because of his last name.

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Speaker 5: But Michael Flynn received twenty five thousand dollars to go

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Speaker 5: to a dinner in Moscow to sit next to Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 5: That disturbs me as well, right.

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Speaker 3: And did not report it to the Defense Intelligence Agency

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Speaker 3: by regulation he was supposed to report as a recently

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Speaker 3: retired former military general.

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Speaker 5: And he was taking money from the Turkish government, which

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Speaker 5: he later admitted, and was actually discussing kidnapping a US person,

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Speaker 5: not a citizen, a Turkish citizen living in the United States,

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Speaker 5: actually discussing kidnapping this individual and bringing him back to Turkey.

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Speaker 5: So these are people around Trump who are being manipulated

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Speaker 5: by Russian forces just.

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Speaker 3: To get into the foreign interference thing here. As I

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Speaker 3: mentioned earlier, for example, years ago, the Russians would create

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Speaker 3: a false story and then promote that false story, for example,

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Speaker 3: the notion that the Pentagon created the AIDS virus and

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Speaker 3: used it in places like Africa and others. But frankly,

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Speaker 3: you know how easy it is now. So you know,

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Speaker 3: we're focused on the Hunter Biden laptop or whatever. But

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Speaker 3: what the Russians want to do, and the Chinese want

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Speaker 3: to do, when the Iranians want to do, when the

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Speaker 3: North Koreans want to do, is create chaos inside the

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Speaker 3: United States, because the more Americans attack each other, they're

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Speaker 3: not focused externally. The more Americans attack each other, the

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Speaker 3: weaker we are as a polity. Nowadays, you don't even

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Speaker 3: need to create the false story. What you do is

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Speaker 3: you watch the things that we're saying to each other,

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Speaker 3: and you amplify and exploit that. So the Hunter Biden

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Speaker 3: laptop story now is probably being used even more now

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Speaker 3: by the Russians and others than it would have been

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Speaker 3: even in the lead up the election, because they see

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Speaker 3: that people in the Republican Party and in the House

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Speaker 3: representatives are trying to use it as a weapon against others,

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Speaker 3: and so they say, oh, my goodness, what a free

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Speaker 3: weapon you're handing us. You hand us the bat will

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Speaker 3: gladly beat you with it. So they can see bad

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Speaker 3: actors on Twitter and Reddit and all these kind of places,

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Speaker 3: and they can promote them and pump them up, and

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Speaker 3: they can essentially just exploit the things that we're doing

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Speaker 3: to ourselves. They don't have to create it anymore. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's a shame more essentially hurting ourselves in the process.

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Speaker 2: All right. Well, Rudy Giuliani, of course, is deeply associated

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Speaker 2: with the laptop. He talked about it a fair bet.

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Speaker 4: Hunter, this degenerate drug addict made that way, probably by

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Speaker 4: his father, because his father didn't take care of him,

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Speaker 4: put him in business with some of the biggest criminals

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Speaker 4: in the world.

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Speaker 7: Was a bag man for his father. He explains it

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Speaker 7: right into our drive.

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Speaker 4: He says, I've had to pay all the expenses of

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Speaker 4: the family for thirty years, he tells his door to this,

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Speaker 4: and I've had to give fifty percent of my income

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Speaker 4: to Pop Well because the income.

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Speaker 6: Was really Pops. He started cheap a little slimy.

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Speaker 7: Center from Delaware, and then he became an international criminal.

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Speaker 8: Missus MC allow me to jump in here just for saying,

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Speaker 8: because I want to get to some of the things

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Speaker 8: that we learned today. I don't know if you read

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Speaker 8: this or not, but Hunter Biden's lawyers they're threatening a

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Speaker 8: lawsuit against Fox and Tucker Carlson about some payments that

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Speaker 8: he made. Now he did put something on his taxes

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Speaker 8: that he actually did make the payments for this house.

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Speaker 8: Can you can you maybe clear some of this up

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Speaker 8: for us?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Sure, I mean, first of all, they sent a letter

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Speaker 7: to the to Daddy's Justice Department and to Daddy's the

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Speaker 7: Delaware Attorney General asking that myself, Steve Bannon, Bob Castello,

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Speaker 7: and mister John mac Isaacs be investigated for stealing his laptop.

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Speaker 7: Of course, that's absurd because I got the documents right here.

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Speaker 6: He signed a contract with John.

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Speaker 4: Mac Isaacs had said if he didn't come and get

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Speaker 4: it in ninety days, he abandoned it and it became

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Speaker 4: mac Isaac's property.

438
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 6: Here's the contract, and here's the notice right here of

439
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 6: the fact that it reverted to John mac Isaac.

440
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's the first time that somebody asked

441
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 3: Rudy Juliana to clear something up.

442
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: I gotta say I've used the move on the radio

443
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 2: a bunch of times. If I have the documents right here.

444
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 2: It's a very effective performance because of course they aren't

445
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: going to look at the documents. It's just a prop.

446
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 3: Senator McCarthy did it famously. You remember, I have here

447
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 3: in my hand a list.

448
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: Of fifty seven, and I remember I read a book

449
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: that said fifty seven just came into his head because

450
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 2: of fifty seven varieties of Heinz.

451
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 3: But a lot of it is, even what you hear there,

452
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,679
Speaker 3: is just for political purposes. It's a smear of information

453
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 3: that sounds awful but doesn't really have anything to do

454
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 3: with the issue at hand. I mean, sure, Hunter Biden's

455
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 3: laptop may have ugly stuff on it, Sure he might

456
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 3: have had been a drug addict and done really bad

457
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 3: and ugly things. But some of the assertions that somehow

458
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: his father was involved in illicit activity, as far as

459
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 3: I know, none of that stuff has ever in any

460
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 3: way not only just not been proven, but other than

461
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 3: people just making assertions, they haven't even tried to give

462
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 3: any follow up information that would make those assertions even

463
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 3: sound plausible.

464
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: So that's where my mind goes with this, is creating

465
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 2: a conspiracy theory around Hunter Biden's laptop. They've been very

466
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 2: bad at it. They've missed some real easy best practices

467
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: of creating a conspiracy by getting these really specific and

468
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: easily falsifiable factoids, by over selling at every stage, they've

469
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 2: left it where as I understand it. Yes, there is

470
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: a kind of Trump cultist belief that I was watching

471
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: a YouTube video the other day and a big Trump

472
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: supporter was screaming Hunter Fiden's laptop is true. But it

473
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 2: was like, what does that even mean? Like my iPhone

474
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: is true? Like it's there's no thing that could be

475
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 2: true or could not be true.

476
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 5: Okay, let's take a break from the craziness just for

477
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:26,440
Speaker 5: a minute or two, and we're back.

478
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: Like, if you were hired to spread this particular conspiracy,

479
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 2: I feel like I would recommend, like keep it, Like

480
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 2: ben Ghazi was awesome.

481
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 5: Because it was sort of nebulous.

482
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 2: It was nebulous. It wasn't clear. Whitewater, like what was white?

483
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't remember what whitewater was, but

484
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: it's that and the Clintons are bad, and I feel

485
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: like they messed that up. I mean, they've done a

486
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 2: great job of motivating the people who were already fully motivated,

487
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: but they've done a terrible job of getting converts because

488
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 2: they oversold it. There are too many details, and the

489
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: thing is by sticking to vague but truthful statements, they

490
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: really box the Hillary side in in that there wasn't

491
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 2: a simple no. That's not true. And what I've learned

492
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 2: as a journalist is you don't want to give a

493
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: list of things because if I say, John Ceipher is

494
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: the most incomfident CIA agent ever, he destroyed the CIA's

495
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: abilities to investigate Russia. He's a coward. In fact, he

496
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: lives in Mexico and he like I just throw in

497
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 2: one thing, you get to turn the whole thing into

498
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: I do not live in That is a lie. I

499
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 2: do not. So I feel like Rudy, it's just bad

500
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 2: conspiracy fearmongering. Like with Hillary, it was like her emails

501
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 2: and then it was some were more confidential and yes

502
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: they could say well no they were more confidential later

503
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: and it wasn't top you know, but she didn't have

504
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: a clean no. That's not true.

505
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 3: But to be fair, Rudy Juliani's not just bad at

506
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 3: conspiracy theories.

507
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: Bad a lot of things, but one thing he has

508
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: known for is his lifelong commitment to combating substance abuse.

509
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 5: There's one thing that we can all agree on that

510
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 5: none of us are going to vote for Hunter Biden

511
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 5: for president.

512
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 2: I don't think I would.

513
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 5: So let's play back an interview we had with a different,

514
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 5: better looking, and more charming ad him Adam Kinsinger, until

515
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 5: recently a congressman from Illinois. He was one of only

516
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 5: ten Republicans to vote to impeach Trump after January sixth,

517
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 5: and was the only other Republican on the January sixth

518
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 5: committee along with Liz Cheney. We have a full episode

519
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 5: with Adam Kinsinger. Here's an excerpt talking about the fifty.

520
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 3: One Adam, with the Hunter Biden laptop thing has become

521
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 3: a big political issue. Can you talk a little bit

522
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 3: about how you think the Republicans see that, how they're

523
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 3: going to use it, and if possible, what do you

524
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 3: think they really believe about that issue?

525
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 9: First off, the thing I haven't become clear on is

526
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 9: was it legally obtained? At any point? If you have

527
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 9: evidence that seized illegally, I think it's thrown out a

528
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 9: court typically, right. I'll leave that to the legal experts

529
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 9: on it. What we don't know, and maybe forensic people

530
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 9: have gone through it, we don't know was any file

531
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 9: or anything inserted into it later, was it tampered with

532
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 9: after the fact. What's happened though, is that's a whole issue.

533
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 9: But they have tried to turn this into a way

534
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 9: to blunt and throw more spaghetti on the wall of

535
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 9: confusion to what about in blunt the very reality that

536
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 9: Donald Trump profited on his name, his family profited on

537
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 9: his name, but he launched an insurrection against the government,

538
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,719
Speaker 9: which has never happened. He launched an insurrection. This has

539
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 9: not happened since the eighteen hundreds in the Civil War.

540
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 9: And so they're trying to create any what about ism,

541
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 9: and they've created this Torrent I mean, the fifty one

542
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 9: of you guys are getting pulled into some conspiracy when

543
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 9: you never said, as far as I know, you never

544
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 9: said the laptop is fake. You said what we were

545
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 9: all saying, which is, we need to be very careful

546
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 9: because not just in twenty sixteen, before that, in twenty sixteen,

547
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 9: and certainly in twenty twenty, the Russians, the Chinese, the

548
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 9: Iranians are going to try to influence the selection. So

549
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 9: don't just take something that all of a sudden pops

550
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 9: up at face value. Understand and be cautious about it.

551
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 9: There's nothing wrong with saying that you guys did what

552
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 9: you should have is as former professional intelligence officials. But

553
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 9: that doesn't mean they're not going to drag you in.

554
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 9: And you'll tell the truth in front of them even

555
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 9: if they do. But they'll collect snippets. You know, Matt

556
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 9: Gates will get his time. And it's garbage. And I

557
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 9: got to tell you, if anybody is listening to this,

558
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 9: who's a Republican and you have some sympathy to this, fine,

559
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 9: all of this needs to be handled in a court

560
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 9: of law. But what is happening in Congress is it

561
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 9: is a fundraising slash attempt to take away blame from

562
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 9: Donald Trump. That is all it is. So take that

563
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 9: with a grain of s and then come to your

564
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 9: own conclusions. And I think that's a real thing. I'm

565
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 9: not saying most people on the right believe that, but

566
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 9: I think there are certainly people that have truly understood

567
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 9: that the only way to stay in power, as whether

568
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 9: it's white, whether it's right, or whatever, is visa v

569
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 9: force and visa v anti democratic methods, and I think

570
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 9: they want to do that.

571
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 3: So Jerry and I fond ourselves playing a small role

572
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: in the counter Biden conspiracy because we were two of

573
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: the Dirty fifty one who signed a letter in the

574
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 3: lead up to the twenty twenty election that's been spun

575
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 3: into somehow we were part of a deep state who

576
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 3: purposely are trying to impact the election.

577
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 9: Well, we're in a club because people somehow think I

578
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 9: was part of the Steele dossier, because David Kramer, who's

579
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 9: a friend of mine, had the dossier early. He with

580
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 9: McCain took it to the government. But I got a

581
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 9: copy of it probably about five hours, maybe a day

582
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 9: before it hit Politico or whoever it hit first. And

583
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 9: so now I'm actually the guy that pushed around the

584
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 9: Steele dossier. Yeah, here's another of my favorite here's another

585
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 9: of my favorite ones. You can find this on Twitter,

586
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 9: Google or whatever. They have a picture of me with

587
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 9: Arabs and John McCain with Arabs and they're all, of

588
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 9: course bag daddy of ISIS, because I guess they all

589
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 9: look the same to some of these people. And so

590
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 9: it's me and John McCain invented ISIS. We worked for

591
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 9: the CIA to do it, and that's where you and

592
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 9: I all got to meet each other. We were on

593
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 9: the build isis because it's good for America operation for

594
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 9: some reason.

595
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, you shouldn't have done that. One of the things

596
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 3: you're suggesting is leaders and people elected officials should push

597
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 3: back even if it's hard. What do you do because

598
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 3: you can't do that all day long. Each individual you'd

599
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 3: say no to isn't going to necessarily change. So what

600
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 3: are some of the answers of how we can sort

601
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 3: of slowly pull ourselves out of this.

602
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 9: I mean, if I had that answer, you know, I'd

603
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 9: certainly be implementing it. The thing I try to do

604
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 9: is a occasionally, for instance, I always see this thing

605
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 9: pop up on Twitter about me and John McCain. Occasionally

606
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 9: I'll retweet it and just say, just so everybody knows

607
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 9: there are people that really believe this it's insane, because

608
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 9: I do think there.

609
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 3: Is.

610
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 9: It's like, I got to be careful in how we

611
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 9: put it out there, but there is some benefit in

612
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 9: ridicule on some of this. Right to show the rest

613
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 9: of the world like what's going on, I think is

614
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 9: important Sometimes like I'll and I shouldn't do it as much, probably,

615
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 9: but I'll retweet somebody that don't have that many followers.

616
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 9: That's going after me again because I want my followers

617
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 9: to see the reality of what people are thinking out there.

618
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 9: Because you have to be on the guard for this.

619
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: You have to do that now. Our old friend of

620
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: the show, Rudy Giuliani, also had some things to say

621
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 2: about Adam Kinsinger.

622
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 8: So, mister mayor, Kinsinger's claiming that either mc isaac or

623
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 8: you know whoever stole this, now you care to respond.

624
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 4: He's a complete He's not crying, right, I mean, here's

625
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 4: that that idiot wouldn't bother to read well because he's

626
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: a liar. The document says clearly equipment left with the

627
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: mac shop after ninety days of notification of completed service

628
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 4: will be treated as abandoned property, and you agree to

629
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 4: hold a max store harmless against any py damage for

630
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 4: the loss of your property.

631
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: Can I just once again say, I think Giuliani's really

632
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: bad at this. There's another lesson I feel like I've

633
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: learned in my journalistic career. There may be audience that's

634
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: fully with you, like I love you, Rudy. Anything you say.

635
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: If you call someone a liar, I believe they're a liar.

636
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: But by going all the way to there, like for

637
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: the for the audience. It's like genuinely like, I don't know,

638
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 2: I don't pay that much attention. Maybe Adam Kinzinger has

639
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: a point. When you go all the way to he's

640
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: a liar, he's an idiot, it's putting a huge burden

641
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: on the viewer, on the listener.

642
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 5: To take on this like big weighty choice.

643
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 2: Like what I think would have been much more effective

644
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: is to say, ah, you know that bugs me when

645
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: politicians talk about stuff without really looking at the information.

646
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: You know, I can understand why you might think that.

647
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: But let me show you. I have this letter, and

648
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 2: it makes it really clear that Adam Kinziger is mistaken.

649
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 2: I think Juliani is bad at spreading conspiracies.

650
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 5: Rudy, if you're out there and you're listening, you can

651
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 5: contact Adam directly. He can give you some tip.

652
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: Let me offer another suggestion. Perhaps, in fact, he understands

653
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 3: his audience better than we think he does. I think

654
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 3: his audience is an audience of one. I think when

655
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: he speaks on Fox News, he is trying to appeal

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00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:37,800
Speaker 3: to Donald Trump.

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00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 5: That's a good point.

658
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited to bring together two of my favorite people.

659
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 2: Aaron Hayes is one of the best comedic actresses working today,

660
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 2: and George Santo's from the great State of New York

661
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 2: is one of our best comedic congressman working today. I

662
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: should note we're recording this when he is almost certainly

663
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 2: going to not be a congressman by the time this airs.

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00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: George Santos felt that the call from several people, including

665
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: John and Jerry, to actually investigate facts before you tell

666
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: the world about them was an outrage, and he wrote

667
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 2: this bill to strip them of their security clearances.

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00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 10: Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives

669
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 10: of the United States of America in Congress assembled. This

670
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 10: act may be cited as the Drain the Intelligence Community

671
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 10: Swamp Act of twenty twenty three. In general, not later

672
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 10: than twenty four hours after the date of enactment of

673
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 10: this Act, the security clearance of any individual listed in

674
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 10: Subsection C signatories of the statement titled Public Statement on

675
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 10: the Hunter Biden Emails dated October nineteenth, twenty twenty are

676
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 10: hereby revoked, and no security clearance may be granted or

677
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 10: renewed for any such individual. The Secretary of Defense and

678
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 10: the Attorney General shall investigate such individual, Jules and their

679
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 10: role in the Hunter Biden laptop scandal and level of

680
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 10: engagement with the Biden presidential campaign.

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00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: I think it's quite ironic that George Santos is the

682
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 3: one that brings this up. The one person who certainly

683
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 3: could not get a security clearance, who could certainly not

684
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 3: go through an inspection or a polygraph and get themselves

685
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 3: into a position of authority in any feshion is the

686
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 3: one who's saying we should be held accountable and we

687
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 3: shouldn't have our security claimss. Like I'd almost it's almost

688
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 3: makes it, like you said, Adam comical.

689
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: Right, I want Jared Kushner himself would say God, that

690
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 2: guy should knock down. Can I ask, like, what's it

691
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: like being at the middle of some political theater?

692
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 5: The death threats are a bummer?

693
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 2: Did you get death threats?

694
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:45,959
Speaker 5: We've gotten death threats.

695
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 6: Yeah.

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00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: It's strange because you spent the greatest part of your

697
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 3: adult life, you know, working in secret where nobody knows

698
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 3: who you are. There's no public face to what you do,

699
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: and for the most part you are given pray for

700
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,720
Speaker 3: your work in defense of the American people and defense

701
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 3: in ne security, and then all of a sudden, once

702
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 3: you put out an opinion in public in some ways.

703
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 3: You know, the attacks are weird and scary to see

704
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 3: and it's really sort of unhealthy, but it doesn't affect

705
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: my day to day life. And in fact that the

706
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 3: fact that he's offering to take away our security clearances

707
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 3: is really sort of a canard. Most of us are

708
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 3: retired and no longer working as contractors with the intelligent

709
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 3: community and don't need security clearances, and those who do,

710
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: who are doing really important work, probably can find a

711
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 3: way around that.

712
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 2: I did some other questions. So when you join the CIA,

713
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 2: is that when you become part of the deep state?

714
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: Or is there like a selection process from people in CIA?

715
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 5: But let's this is this succumbs a shock to you,

716
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 5: But there is some hypocrisy in Washington. I spent time

717
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 5: like up in northern Afghanistan and like on a horse

718
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 5: tracking bin laden. After nine to eleven, I was in

719
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 5: Iraq and the bad days with ices outside, and we

720
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 5: briefed Congress about this, and I sat across from some

721
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 5: of these same congressmen who then talking about how, you know,

722
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 5: colleagues risked their lives to protect this country. And they

723
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,719
Speaker 5: were all happy and supportive and thankful and thank you

724
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 5: for your sacrifice, and when when it came to politics,

725
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 5: they were ready to cut our throats without a second thought.

726
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 5: So I mean a lot of these guys who in

727
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,879
Speaker 5: Congress who were attacking us are the same guys who

728
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 5: were thanking us what we risked our lives earlier on.

729
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,240
Speaker 3: I can remember coming back for a Chief of Station conference.

730
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 3: We would go down to the Hill to speak to

731
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 3: centers and congress people and their staff and actually being hugged.

732
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: You know, thank you for what you guys are doing.

733
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 3: It's so wonderful. And that night seeing in them on

734
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 3: TV tearing into the CIA is dishonest. Whatever He's like, geez,

735
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: it could have waited a day or two.

736
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: Thank you guys. I gotta say, it's kind of exciting

737
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: to have a couple of deep state stooges on to

738
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 2: talk about the conspiracy, about the very sane deep state

739
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 2: stooges who are hosting this show.

740
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 3: Thanks guys, Oh you're very welcome.

741
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 5: Mission Implausible is produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'sha, John Cipher,

742
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 5: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producers are Rachel Harner and

743
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 5: David Sollinger. This has been a production of honorable Mention

744
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 5: and Abominable Pictures for iHeartMedia