WEBVTT - #129 Wrongful Conviction: False Confessions - Chris Tapp

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. I'm Laura and I writer.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Steve Drisen.

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<v Speaker 1>Today we're going to tell you about an Idaho man

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<v Speaker 1>named Chris Tap. Chris was just twenty years old when

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<v Speaker 1>he endured a mind bending, twenty five hour interrogation that

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<v Speaker 1>transformed him from an innocent into a confessed murderer. Fortunately

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<v Speaker 1>for Chris, he found an indomitable champion in the victim's mother.

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<v Speaker 1>She convinced police to use a revolutionary new method of

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<v Speaker 1>DNA identification to exonerate Chris Tap and find her own

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<v Speaker 1>daughter's killer.

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<v Speaker 2>There are certain special people you meet in your life,

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<v Speaker 2>people that I like to say are more evolved than

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of us, people that really inspire you. And

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<v Speaker 2>Carol Dodge is one of those people. It's one of

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<v Speaker 2>the few times in my career as a lawyer where

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<v Speaker 2>someone from the victimim's family has asked me to investigate

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<v Speaker 2>an injustice and for a crime victim who was so

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<v Speaker 2>invested in Chris's guilt that she wanted him to get

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<v Speaker 2>the death penalty, to evolve to a place where she

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<v Speaker 2>was thinking he might be innocent. That just blew me away.

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<v Speaker 2>How was it that a lay person could look at

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<v Speaker 2>these interrogation tapes and see all of the problems, all

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<v Speaker 2>of the coercion, all of the leading questions, all of

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<v Speaker 2>the fact feeding when law enforcement officers on the Idaho

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<v Speaker 2>Falls Police Department couldn't see it themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>And it shows that wrongful convictions affect more than just

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<v Speaker 1>the defendants. It's also the victim's families, the survivors of

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<v Speaker 1>these horrible attacks, who are being fed aligne about an

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<v Speaker 1>innocent person being guilty.

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<v Speaker 2>It wasn't easy. She had help from a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>other people, but it was her persistence and her desire

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<v Speaker 2>for knowledge that ultimately changed the course of this case.

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<v Speaker 1>Kristap's story starts in Idaho Falls, a town of about

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred thousand people in southeastern Idaho, about two hours

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<v Speaker 1>north of Yellowstone National Park. Idaho Falls is a beautiful place.

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<v Speaker 1>There's mountains on the horizon and the Snake River cut

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<v Speaker 1>straight through town. Gorgeous though it may be, the town

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<v Speaker 1>was wrecked by terrible ugliness nearly twenty four years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>In June nineteen ninety six, Idaho Falls resident Angie Dodge

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<v Speaker 1>was eighteen years old. She graduated from high school the

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<v Speaker 1>year before. A head of schedule with honors, and life

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<v Speaker 1>was just beginning for her. She was working two jobs,

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<v Speaker 1>taking a few classes at Idaho State becoming independent. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>Angie had just recently moved into her first apartment, the

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<v Speaker 1>upper floor of a little frame house on Eye Street,

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<v Speaker 1>where she lived by herself. But on the morning of Thursday,

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<v Speaker 1>June thirteenth, Angie didn't sh up for her day job

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<v Speaker 1>at a local beauty supply store. A friend stopped by

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<v Speaker 1>her apartment to make sure she was okay, but by

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<v Speaker 1>eleven o'clock that friend was frantically dialing nine to one one.

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<v Speaker 1>She'd found Angie Dodge lying face up on her bedroom floor,

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<v Speaker 1>half naked and clearly dead. Angie's head was against the

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<v Speaker 1>bedroom wall with her legs outstretched. Next to her, there

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<v Speaker 1>was a basket of stuffed animals, including a teddy bear,

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<v Speaker 1>specked in blood. She'd been stabbed fourteen times and her

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<v Speaker 1>throat had been cut.

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<v Speaker 2>She was nearly decapitated. Most of the apartment was undisturbed,

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<v Speaker 2>so all of the activity between the assailant and Angie

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<v Speaker 2>took place in her bedroom. The crime scene did not

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<v Speaker 2>suggest a prolonged struggle. Angie was six feet tall, and

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<v Speaker 2>she had a reputation of not taking guph from anybody.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, she would have been the kind of victim

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<v Speaker 2>to have fought back, and she did have a few

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<v Speaker 2>defensive wounds on her arms and her wrists. The police

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<v Speaker 2>theorized that she had been attacked in her sleep and

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<v Speaker 2>quickly overwhelmed. But who would want to hurt Angie Dodge.

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<v Speaker 1>The police assured Angie's family, including her mom Carol, that

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<v Speaker 1>the killer had left damning evidence behind. Seaman left on

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<v Speaker 1>Angie's body yielded a full DNA profile, but police ran

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<v Speaker 1>the profile through the state and national DNA databases and

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<v Speaker 1>got no hits. They compared it against Angie's male friends

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<v Speaker 1>and family members, still no hits, and as summer turned

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<v Speaker 1>to fall and the temperatures dropped, the case went cold too.

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<v Speaker 1>The case stayed cold until January nineteen ninety seven, when

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<v Speaker 1>an acquaintance of Angie's named Ben Hobbs, was arrested in

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<v Speaker 1>Nevada for a knife point sexual assault. Police started questioning

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<v Speaker 1>Ben about whether he was involved in the attack on Angie,

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<v Speaker 1>which seemed to be similar, but Ben insisted he had

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<v Speaker 1>nothing to do with Angie Dodge, and eventually lawyered up,

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<v Speaker 1>so instead police turned to his friend Chris Tap to

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<v Speaker 1>see if they could get some dirt on Ben.

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<v Speaker 2>At the time, Chris was twenty years old, maybe a

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<v Speaker 2>year or two older than Angie. In fact, he and

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<v Speaker 2>Angie and Ben were part of a young group of

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<v Speaker 2>people who hung out on the trails along the Snake

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<v Speaker 2>River and partied from time to time.

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<v Speaker 1>This group of friends called themselves the river Rats crew,

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<v Speaker 1>and police figured that if one of the river Rats

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<v Speaker 1>had attacked Angie, then the others would know about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only was Chris Tap a river rat, but one

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<v Speaker 1>of the police officers had known Chris for years. He

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<v Speaker 1>figured it'd be easy to use their trusting relationship to

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<v Speaker 1>make Chris give up whatever he knew about ben Idaho Falls.

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<v Speaker 1>Police decided to question Chris, and here come the interrogations,

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<v Speaker 1>not one, not two, but eventually nine of them, spread

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<v Speaker 1>out over nearly four weeks, for a total of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five hours of questioning. The statements that police get ar chaotic, confused, jumbled,

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<v Speaker 1>and the tactics police used, well, they're a recipe for

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<v Speaker 1>wrongful conviction. It all began for Chris on Tuesday, January seventh.

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<v Speaker 1>The officer starts by asking Chris about Ben's possible role

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<v Speaker 1>in Angie's death. Chris denies knowing anything about it, over

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<v Speaker 1>and over again.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I'm going to be straight up and cheerful

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<v Speaker 3>with you. If I did anything know about this, I

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<v Speaker 3>would say what I do on them. That's honest, true,

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<v Speaker 3>not lying.

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<v Speaker 1>But the police have an unsolved murder on their hands,

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<v Speaker 1>and Chris's possible knowledge about Ben Hobbs was the only

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<v Speaker 1>lead they had. They try to create leverage with Chris

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<v Speaker 1>by implying that he's withholding crucial information and that there

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<v Speaker 1>could be consequences if the investigators don't get what they need.

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<v Speaker 1>The deeper they get into the interview, the more police

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<v Speaker 1>up the pressure. They tell Chris that he has to

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<v Speaker 1>tell them something about Ben.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, this officer was not a stranger to Chris. He

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<v Speaker 2>was a school resource officer whom Chris had known throughout

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<v Speaker 2>his life. And one of the tactics this officer used

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<v Speaker 2>was the false friend technique, suggesting that he was there

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<v Speaker 2>to help Chris to see him through this problem. I

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<v Speaker 2>should be.

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<v Speaker 4>Saying this, but kind of close to you. I've got

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<v Speaker 4>to know not one of these crimes.

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<v Speaker 1>I could go out to do that, and the police

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<v Speaker 1>suggests that if Chris tells them something about Ben, then

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<v Speaker 1>they'd pull some strings, that even though he's getting dragged

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<v Speaker 1>into the investigation, they'd protect him. He wouldn't have anything

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<v Speaker 1>to worry about. It's a theme they'd go on to

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<v Speaker 1>repeat again and again.

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<v Speaker 3>I will keep everything a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris continues to insist that he doesn't have anything to

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<v Speaker 1>tell them, and eventually the cops let him go home.

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<v Speaker 1>But a few days later, on Friday, January tenth, the

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<v Speaker 1>police are back. They still suspect that Chris is withholding

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<v Speaker 1>information to protect his friend. They need more leverage, so

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<v Speaker 1>they give him a polygraph test and they tell him

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<v Speaker 1>that he flunked it.

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<v Speaker 2>It was extremely painful to watch because you see someone's

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<v Speaker 2>will being broken over and over and over again by

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<v Speaker 2>these two interrogators, primarily their friend, the school resource officer

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<v Speaker 2>and the polygrapher.

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<v Speaker 1>They also tell Chris that by covering for his friend,

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<v Speaker 1>Chris is making himself an accessory to murder, and the

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<v Speaker 1>police start warning him that the law treats cover ups

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<v Speaker 1>the same as the crime. In other words, Chris Tap

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<v Speaker 1>is now facing the gas chamber.

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<v Speaker 3>Are you looking at it? The possibility getting charged with

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<v Speaker 3>the murder one which.

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<v Speaker 2>Max penalty is dead.

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<v Speaker 5>Middle A generally is life a person foot no row,

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<v Speaker 5>and save your time period.

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<v Speaker 2>You've got to save your mind. The thread of death

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<v Speaker 2>penalty is in the air.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris is terrified, and so he starts to make things

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<v Speaker 1>up in order to please Isn't interrogators and save himself

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<v Speaker 1>from a death sentence. He tells a story in which

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<v Speaker 1>he'd heard Ben Hobbes admit to killing Angie, and the

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<v Speaker 1>cops eat it up. By now they can't wait to

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<v Speaker 1>take Ben down for rape and murder, with Chris as

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<v Speaker 1>the star member of their team.

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<v Speaker 2>The school resource officer tells Chris at one point that

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<v Speaker 2>he really wants Chris to help in nailing Ben Hobbes

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<v Speaker 2>so that he could drop kick Ben Hobbes through the goalposts.

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<v Speaker 1>Of life toxic masculinity, anybody, huh? Artifact detectives keep pushing

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<v Speaker 1>for more details, and they help Chris out by giving

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<v Speaker 1>him hints about what they think happened. They tell Chris,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, that Angie had been stabbed with a knife.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty soon Chris agrees and says he heard Ben describe

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<v Speaker 1>using a knife. But even as Chris regurgitates these details.

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<v Speaker 1>He's freaking out, crying hard, terrified that whatever he says

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<v Speaker 1>won't satisfy his interrogators, that instead of helping police drop

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<v Speaker 1>kick Ben, he'll end up being the football. But the

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<v Speaker 1>cops still don't seem convinced, and they start asking whether

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<v Speaker 1>the DNA left on Angie's body might belong to Chris.

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<v Speaker 1>He rallies, take my DNA. It ain't going to be me.

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<v Speaker 1>He says, I was never inside Angie's apartment. The police

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<v Speaker 1>let Chris go home again, but they still think he's

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<v Speaker 1>not telling them everything he knows about Ben Hobbes, So

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<v Speaker 1>the next day, January eleventh, they arrest Chris and charge

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<v Speaker 1>him as an accessory who helped cover up Angie Dodge's murder.

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<v Speaker 2>And that threat or suggestion of the gas chamber. That's

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<v Speaker 2>becoming realer and realer.

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<v Speaker 1>To Chris pretty soon. The promise of help gets more

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<v Speaker 1>real too. Chris gets a lawyer, and that lawyer negotiates

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<v Speaker 1>an immunity agreement. Under the deal, Chris would escape charges

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<v Speaker 1>if he provides information about who raped and killed Angie Dodge.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's got to be information that the police will believe,

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<v Speaker 1>and the police tell him that in order to go free,

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<v Speaker 1>they expect him to say he was present during the attack.

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<v Speaker 1>In their words, get us up close. If he does that,

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<v Speaker 1>they suggest he can go home. They'll leave him alone

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<v Speaker 1>and we can help you. Now, Chris has no choice

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<v Speaker 1>but to tell lies, placing him inside Anngie's bedroom, and

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<v Speaker 1>as police keep pushing, Chris has to take the story

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<v Speaker 1>further and further. By the very end, he agrees that

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<v Speaker 1>he slashed Angie with a knife and held her down

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<v Speaker 1>while Ben raped her.

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<v Speaker 3>A hat.

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<v Speaker 2>That Angie dodge across the right breast with the knife is.

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<v Speaker 1>Even though Chris now has agreed to say he was

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<v Speaker 1>directly involved, he can't get the story right. He doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>know basic facts like the layout of Angie's apartment or

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<v Speaker 1>what room the attack occurred in. In fact, at one point,

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<v Speaker 1>the police take Chris to Eye Street so he can

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<v Speaker 1>point out Angie's home and walk them through the crime scene,

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<v Speaker 1>but he can't even tell them which house she lived in.

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<v Speaker 1>He guesses that she lived on the corner when she

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<v Speaker 1>really lived in the middle of the block.

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<v Speaker 2>This should have been a huge red flag to these officers.

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<v Speaker 2>He had previously told them that they won't find his

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<v Speaker 2>DNA there because he'd never been to Angie's apartment. But

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<v Speaker 2>they are stuck in the Chris Tap box and they

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<v Speaker 2>can't get out of it.

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<v Speaker 1>They refuse to get out of it, even when a

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<v Speaker 1>big problem emerges about a week later.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a problem we've seen in case after case. By

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<v Speaker 2>January eighteenth, the police have done DNA testing and the

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<v Speaker 2>results are back. Their DNA from the crime scene does

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<v Speaker 2>not belong to either Ben Hobbs or Chris Tap.

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<v Speaker 1>Neither of them could have been Antie's rapist, and the

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<v Speaker 1>police accept that Ben Hobbs had nothing to do with

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<v Speaker 1>this crime. But Chris, on the other hand, he had

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<v Speaker 1>confessed to being there, and why would anyone confess unless

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<v Speaker 1>they were guilty. The police decide they'll never know whose

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<v Speaker 1>DNA was left at the crime scene, but they stick

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<v Speaker 1>to their belief Chris was involved. They conclude that he's

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<v Speaker 1>been protecting the identity of the real rapist this whole time.

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<v Speaker 1>They're furious, and the immunity deal is yanked off the table.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris Tap is charged with first degree murder and sexual assault,

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<v Speaker 1>and the county prosecutor announces that he'll seek the death penalty.

0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.840
<v Speaker 1>At Chris's trial, prosecutors show the jury one brief clip

0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 1>from the interrogation Cherry picked from twenty five hours of videotape.

0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 1>This excerpt makes his confession seem spontaneous and voluntary, and

0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.800
<v Speaker 1>on May twenty eighth, nineteen nine, ninety eight, Chris tap

0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:17.120
<v Speaker 1>is convicted of the rape and murder of Angie Dodge.

0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 1>This is where the hero of our story first comes

0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:26.000
<v Speaker 1>in Angie's mother, Carol Dodge, a heartbroken but ferocious woman.

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Carol was tortured by the thought that one of Angie's

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.120
<v Speaker 1>attackers was still free, the one who had raped her,

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 1>and Carol believed Chris knew who the rapist was, so

0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 1>when the time came for sentencing, Carol Dodge begged the

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.120
<v Speaker 1>judge to give Chris the death penalty. When the judge

0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 1>gave him life in prison instead, Carol broke down, sobbing

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 1>to her justice hadn't been served. Carol Dodge was right,

0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>justice hadn't been served, but the failures here were more

0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>profound and troubling than even she imagined at first. For years,

0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:06.000
<v Speaker 1>an unanswered question remained at the heart of Angie Dodge's case.

0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.480
<v Speaker 1>Whose DNA had been left on her body?

0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 2>The investigation had stalled, and Carol's frustration was going through

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.680
<v Speaker 2>the roof into One day, about twelve or thirteen years

0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 2>after Angie's death, Carol decided to take the matter into

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 2>her own hands, and the first thing she wanted to

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 2>look at were the videotapes of Chris TAP's interrogation.

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:32.920
<v Speaker 1>It's the first time she's seen these tapes from start

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 1>to finish, and as she watches them, she's growing angrier

0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:40.040
<v Speaker 1>and angrier because those tapes are making her think that

0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Chris Tap might be innocent. Carol starts doing research online

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 1>about false confessions, and whose name comes up but Steve Drisen.

0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.640
<v Speaker 1>She picks up the phone and calls them.

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 2>Now, I'll never forget this. I was sitting at my

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 2>desk one afternoon. It was February twenty second, twenty thirteen,

0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and the phone rank and on the other end was

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>Carol Dodge. Now I knew who Carol Dodge was. I

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>had read about the cap case. I had seen Carol

0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 2>on an episode of Dateline, but I had never received

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:20.120
<v Speaker 2>a call from a crime victim before asking for my assistance,

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:26.240
<v Speaker 2>she said, would you mind reviewing and analyzing these interrogation videos?

0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.640
<v Speaker 2>Who could say no to Carol Dodge.

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Carol sent the videotapes and Steve watched them all. He

0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:38.000
<v Speaker 1>wrote an expert report deeming Chris Tapp's confessions unreliable. But

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.520
<v Speaker 1>even as Steve and Carroll worked together, others were starting

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 1>to raise questions too. An advocacy group called Judges for

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:50.680
<v Speaker 1>Justice started pushing to reopen the investigation. Two former FBI

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:54.080
<v Speaker 1>agents reviewed the case and concluded that the Idaho Falls

0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 1>police investigation was deeply flawed, and an internationally recognized expert

0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 1>concluded that Chris TAP's polygraph had been a sham. The results,

0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:07.520
<v Speaker 1>he said, weren't worth the paper they were written on.

0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:12.399
<v Speaker 2>Things were starting to congeal around the idea that Chris

0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:17.199
<v Speaker 2>was wrongfully convicted. Chris TAP's own attorneys and representatives of

0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:21.440
<v Speaker 2>the Idaho Innocence Project were beginning to push the innocence

0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.200
<v Speaker 2>narrative in court.

0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.479
<v Speaker 1>What the team really needed was more forensic testing to

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.560
<v Speaker 1>show that Chris Taps DNA was nowhere in Angie Dodge's bedroom.

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.879
<v Speaker 1>Under previous Idaho law, defendants like Chris could only seek

0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 1>DNA testing during the year immediately following conviction, but that

0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:45.240
<v Speaker 1>restriction was lifted in twenty ten. And Chris's team jumped

0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 1>at the opportunity. They had additional testing done on some

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:52.199
<v Speaker 1>other things from Angie's bedroom, that Teddy bear with the

0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.359
<v Speaker 1>blood on it, and some articles of her clothing. What

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 1>was found the same DNA profile as the person who

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.600
<v Speaker 1>had left his seamen. We now had multiple DNA hits

0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.639
<v Speaker 1>to the same guy. While we didn't know who that

0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:14.040
<v Speaker 1>guy was, we did know he wasn't Chris Tap. Based

0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.560
<v Speaker 1>on all these new discoveries, Carol Dodge becomes convinced that

0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Chris Tap is innocent, and she starts bringing pressure to

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.040
<v Speaker 1>bear on the local police department to release Chris and

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:28.680
<v Speaker 1>find her daughter's actual killer. In May twenty sixteen, Chris

0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.000
<v Speaker 1>TAP's lawyer filed a post conviction petition alleging that new

0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:34.960
<v Speaker 1>evidence had cast doubt on the reliability of TAP's confession,

0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:39.680
<v Speaker 1>and pretty soon an enormous collection of forces was pushing

0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.800
<v Speaker 1>the state of Idaho to do the right thing. Judges

0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.399
<v Speaker 1>for Justice was releasing expert reports and calling for Chris's release,

0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.160
<v Speaker 1>The Idaho Innocence Project was talking about the new DNA results,

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.000
<v Speaker 1>and the Idaho Falls Post Register, the local newspaper, was

0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 1>hammering the prosecutor to release Chris. One local journalist became

0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:02.080
<v Speaker 1>particularly invested in the case. His name is Brian Clark.

0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:06.720
<v Speaker 5>I'm the opinion editor of the Post Register in Idaho Falls,

0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:09.960
<v Speaker 5>and I'm a former reporter there. I first heard about

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:13.960
<v Speaker 5>the case shortly before Judges for Justice started releasing their

0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 5>reports about it. My editor approached me and said, I've

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:20.760
<v Speaker 5>got a gift for you. It's not going to feel

0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.199
<v Speaker 5>like a gift, but I promise it is. And he

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.800
<v Speaker 5>introduced me to the Dodge case and the Tap conviction.

0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.280
<v Speaker 1>Even the Innocence Project in New York had joined the fight,

0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.600
<v Speaker 1>but no one was pushing harder than Carol Dodge. It

0:19:34.640 --> 0:19:38.320
<v Speaker 1>takes an army sometimes, and she was the General Lisimo.

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.080
<v Speaker 5>An example of her tenacity you can actually see in

0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.359
<v Speaker 5>the architecture of the police station. There are a pair

0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.400
<v Speaker 5>of doors that are in between the sort of main

0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.880
<v Speaker 5>lobby area and the area where the detectives and other

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.840
<v Speaker 5>police are. The reason they were put in is that

0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:56.800
<v Speaker 5>Carol Dodge would show up at the police station, walk

0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.440
<v Speaker 5>right past the front desk and into the chief's office

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.199
<v Speaker 5>and start demanding that he you know, what are you

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.879
<v Speaker 5>doing to find my daughter's killer? And so they finally

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:07.800
<v Speaker 5>had to put indoors to keep her from doing that.

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 5>They're referred to as the Carrol Doors.

0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.919
<v Speaker 1>Eventually, prosecutors decide that they're not yet ready to exonerate Chris,

0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 1>but they would agree based on this new DNA evidence,

0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.320
<v Speaker 1>that Chris should be granted immediate release. So in twenty seventeen,

0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Chris tap walked out of prison, not yet exonerated, but

0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.959
<v Speaker 1>a freeman after spending twenty years behind bars.

0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.439
<v Speaker 5>You see all the evidence stack up and it becomes

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:35.240
<v Speaker 5>clear the guys spent twenty years behind bars for something

0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.360
<v Speaker 5>he didn't do, and that did keep me up at nights. Frankly,

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:41.240
<v Speaker 5>after working on it for years, I did not think

0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.480
<v Speaker 5>it was going to be remedied. So it was really

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 5>great to watch them take those handcuffs off. That made

0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:49.560
<v Speaker 5>me really happy. The first two people to give him

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.760
<v Speaker 5>a hug was his mother, Vera and Carol. They hugged

0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:57.399
<v Speaker 5>and they were both crying, and it was just really remarkable.

0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:01.960
<v Speaker 2>It was a bittersweet moment. Carol Dodge was relieved that

0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Chris had been released, but she was also concerned would

0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:09.080
<v Speaker 2>the Idaho Falls police and prosecutors now give up the

0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.399
<v Speaker 2>search for Andy's killer. There was no way she was

0:21:12.440 --> 0:21:13.679
<v Speaker 2>going to allow that to happen.

0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:19.879
<v Speaker 1>Usually, in these cases, the DNA profile eventually gets matched,

0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and it's the identification of the real killer that leads

0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.760
<v Speaker 1>to full exoneration. But this wasn't happening for christ Tap.

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 1>The single DNA profile left at the scene was run

0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:34.119
<v Speaker 1>again and again through the National DNA database, but it

0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:37.080
<v Speaker 1>kept coming up dry. You see, profiles get added to

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.760
<v Speaker 1>that database only when people are arrested or charged with

0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:43.200
<v Speaker 1>certain serious offenses. Clearly, whoever had done this to Angie

0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.439
<v Speaker 1>Dodge hadn't reoffended, at least not at the level of

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.159
<v Speaker 1>severity that would lead to his DNA being included in

0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:53.199
<v Speaker 1>that database. But that didn't stop Carol. She wasn't going

0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to rest until that mystery DNA was identified, and she

0:21:57.080 --> 0:22:01.760
<v Speaker 1>wanted Idaho police to try a brand new identification technique

0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:14.520
<v Speaker 1>called genetic genealogy. Genetic genealogy is basically the use of

0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:19.920
<v Speaker 1>DNA evidence in combination with traditional genealogical information. If you

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.919
<v Speaker 1>can identify whose DNA it is, at least you might

0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.480
<v Speaker 1>be able to identify that person's family tree. This technique

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.000
<v Speaker 1>was recently used to solve the Golden State killer case

0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:32.960
<v Speaker 1>in California. Now in twenty fourteen, police had already given

0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 1>genetic genealogy a shot in the case of Angi Dodge.

0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Using the DNA profile from the crime scene and an

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.679
<v Speaker 1>ancestry dot com database, they obtained a partial DNA match

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.560
<v Speaker 1>to a man in New Orleans, a possible suspect, a

0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:52.200
<v Speaker 1>man named Michael Ustri. They became more and more interested

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:54.480
<v Speaker 1>in Ustri after it turned out that he was a

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.120
<v Speaker 1>filmmaker with a flair for the macabre. He had recently

0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.720
<v Speaker 1>created a short film called Murder Rebelia about the market

0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:04.920
<v Speaker 1>for collectibles related to real life killings.

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:06.880
<v Speaker 2>And when he told the officers that he had been

0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.639
<v Speaker 2>to Idaho at some point around the time of this

0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:14.760
<v Speaker 2>crime on a camping trip, their expectations soared even higher.

0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Police interviewed Michael Usri and got his full DNA profile,

0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:21.119
<v Speaker 1>but it didn't match the DNA left at the scene.

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Film noir or not, he wasn't guilty. As for everyone

0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 1>else in the Usri family tree, police found themselves out

0:23:27.800 --> 0:23:30.879
<v Speaker 1>of leeds again. Every other male in the family was

0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:35.640
<v Speaker 1>ruled out too young, too old, never been to Idaho Falls.

0:23:36.040 --> 0:23:39.320
<v Speaker 1>But again, Carol Dodge didn't give up In twenty eighteen,

0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:41.960
<v Speaker 1>she found the genetic genealogist who had cracked open the

0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Golden State killer case, doctor C. C. Moore. Carol pressured

0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:50.360
<v Speaker 1>police to hire doctor Moore, and they did. Doctor Moore

0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:52.720
<v Speaker 1>started looking through obituaries to fill in the blanks in

0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:54.440
<v Speaker 1>the USRI family tree, and she.

0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:56.720
<v Speaker 5>Was able to take samples that were found at the

0:23:56.760 --> 0:24:01.719
<v Speaker 5>crime scene and compare them to genealogical DNA database That

0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.480
<v Speaker 5>led her to a family tree of individuals who could

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:07.719
<v Speaker 5>be related to the person who left the DNA at

0:24:07.720 --> 0:24:10.600
<v Speaker 5>the crime scene. And only with the help of an

0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:13.520
<v Speaker 5>obscure record that they found in a library, they were

0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:15.800
<v Speaker 5>finally able to track down Brian Drips.

0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:19.439
<v Speaker 1>Brian Dripps is a biological Uzri who had been adopted

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 1>by his stepfather and grew up as part of another family.

0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.600
<v Speaker 1>By the time his name came up in late twenty eighteen,

0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Drips was fifty three years old, and it turned out

0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.760
<v Speaker 1>he used to live in Idaho Falls, right across the

0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:35.520
<v Speaker 1>street from Angie Dodge.

0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:39.879
<v Speaker 2>Police had actually interviewed him during a canvas of the

0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:44.040
<v Speaker 2>crime scene and the area around where the crime occurred.

0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:50.320
<v Speaker 2>They interviewed the true killer within days of Angie Dodge's murder.

0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Brian Dripps had left Idaho Falls shortly after the killing.

0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:56.600
<v Speaker 1>He was now living in a different part of Idaho,

0:24:56.960 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 1>and he wasn't in the national DNA database. He was

0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:04.720
<v Speaker 1>the perfect suspect. Now all police needed was a complete

0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:08.760
<v Speaker 1>DNA match. They started tailing Drips and they found their

0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:11.959
<v Speaker 1>opportunity when he threw a cigarette butt out his car window.

0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:16.919
<v Speaker 1>Police recovered that cigarette butt, and there it was a

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:20.680
<v Speaker 1>DNA match to the evidence left in Angie's bedroom all

0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:26.199
<v Speaker 1>those years ago. After more than two decades, Brian Drips

0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:29.120
<v Speaker 1>was arrested for the rape and murder of Angie Dodge,

0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:34.639
<v Speaker 1>and Chris Tapp was finally exonerated in an Idaho courtroom

0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:40.320
<v Speaker 1>on July seventeenth, twenty nineteen. Since then, Chris Tap and

0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 1>Carol Dodge have become close. They've even appeared on television

0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:47.880
<v Speaker 1>together to tell their intertwined stories of injustice. For his part,

0:25:48.080 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Brian Drips is currently incarcerated in Idaho Falls, where he's

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:55.400
<v Speaker 1>awaiting trial on first degree murder and rape charges. He's

0:25:55.520 --> 0:26:00.240
<v Speaker 1>entered a plea if not guilty, fighting for j this

0:26:00.320 --> 0:26:03.800
<v Speaker 1>can be a long, slow crawl. Carol and Chris know

0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:05.120
<v Speaker 1>this better. Than anyone.

0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:09.080
<v Speaker 5>Assuming Brian Drips is eventually convicted, she will have not

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.920
<v Speaker 5>only freedom innocent man, but driven the effort to catch

0:26:12.920 --> 0:26:16.399
<v Speaker 5>the guilty one. She's been the driving force behind this

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:19.879
<v Speaker 5>whole thing, both the exoneration of Chris Tap and the

0:26:19.920 --> 0:26:21.920
<v Speaker 5>apprehension of Brian Drips.

0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Slowly but surely, over many years, she was able to

0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:31.280
<v Speaker 2>get the Idaho Falls Police out of the Chris Tap box.

0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:34.280
<v Speaker 2>She got them to see the truth.

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:42.040
<v Speaker 3>Kerl Yeah, Hi, how are you today, Steve?

0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:46.560
<v Speaker 4>I'm really sad. I was just sitting here thinking with

0:26:46.720 --> 0:26:50.280
<v Speaker 4>the cost of justice, those all the things that I

0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 4>sacrificed because of people that could have done the right

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 4>thing at the very beginning.

0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.040
<v Speaker 3>It's so important that you say that people know. I

0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:03.520
<v Speaker 3>don't know. It's been a real price to your twenty

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:06.120
<v Speaker 3>three year search for the troops.

0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:11.439
<v Speaker 4>And I never allowed any of the authorities to tell me.

0:27:11.560 --> 0:27:13.359
<v Speaker 2>Now, for the time they.

0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:16.920
<v Speaker 4>Told me that something couldn't be done, I would just say,

0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:17.639
<v Speaker 4>we'll watch me.

0:27:18.760 --> 0:27:21.840
<v Speaker 3>There are things that your work is done which you

0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 3>probably can't even see or appreciate yet, that I hope

0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.600
<v Speaker 3>gives you some comfort. It does. I love you.

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:31.880
<v Speaker 4>I love you too, and thank you.

0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Hello.

0:27:40.359 --> 0:27:42.919
<v Speaker 4>Hey, Chris, it's Laura. How are you good, Laura, how

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:44.640
<v Speaker 4>are you? I'm good, I'm good.

0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:47.480
<v Speaker 1>So tell me about what you've been doing with your

0:27:47.520 --> 0:27:48.480
<v Speaker 1>time as a free man.

0:27:48.560 --> 0:27:49.800
<v Speaker 4>And I understand you've got a family.

0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:52.800
<v Speaker 3>I do. I have an amazing family with see. I

0:27:52.800 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 3>got out in March of twenty seventeen. I met my

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:57.920
<v Speaker 3>wife two months later in May, and well would romance

0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:00.920
<v Speaker 3>and we were married in July. I have three beautiful

0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.080
<v Speaker 3>step children, or children on my own, as I could

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:04.919
<v Speaker 3>love to call um. I have an almost twenty one

0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:06.520
<v Speaker 3>year old, I got a sixteen year old, and I

0:28:06.760 --> 0:28:09.720
<v Speaker 3>got a fifteen year old boy. Tell me a.

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.600
<v Speaker 4>Little bit about what it's meant to you still have

0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:13.760
<v Speaker 4>Carol Dodge.

0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:14.240
<v Speaker 2>Sight for you?

0:28:14.920 --> 0:28:18.680
<v Speaker 3>Oh Caroll Dodge. I love her dearly more than most

0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:21.920
<v Speaker 3>people will ever know. The actual true killer of her.

0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Daughter would be caught and I wouldn't.

0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:29.880
<v Speaker 3>Have the exoneration it wasn't for Carroll Dodge.

0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Chris. It was a great honor for me to play

0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:36.920
<v Speaker 2>even a small role in your exoneration, and being in

0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:41.520
<v Speaker 2>that courtroom when you were finally cleared was one of

0:28:41.520 --> 0:28:44.680
<v Speaker 2>the highlights of my career. You've been given a gift

0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 2>and I hope you take this gift and I know

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.479
<v Speaker 2>you will, and that you live a life that is

0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 2>honorable and worthy.

0:28:54.040 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 1>To Chris Tapp and Carol Dodge, two of our heroes.

0:28:58.280 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for letting us share your story. And that's the

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 1>story of Chris Tapp. Next week, join us as we

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 1>bring you to Brooklyn, New York, where David McCallum and

0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:18.920
<v Speaker 1>Willie Stuckey were wrongfully convicted of murder. There are decades

0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:21.760
<v Speaker 1>long fight for justice drew support from one of the

0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:27.040
<v Speaker 1>most famous exonneries of all time, professional boxer Reuben Hurricane

0:29:27.080 --> 0:29:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Carter Till. Then thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions.

0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is a production of Lava for

0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:47.720
<v Speaker 1>Good Podcasts in association with Signal Company Number One. Special

0:29:47.720 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>thanks to our executive producer Jason Flamm and the team

0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:54.840
<v Speaker 1>at Signal Company Number one. Executive producer Kevin Wardis Senior

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:58.640
<v Speaker 1>producer and Pope and additional production and editing by Connor Hall.

0:29:59.360 --> 0:30:02.760
<v Speaker 1>Special things to jogy Hammer for additional script editing and

0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:06.280
<v Speaker 1>for wrangling and writing like a mad Woman. Special thanks

0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:10.280
<v Speaker 1>to Mike Heavey for organizing and editing Chris tab's interrogation videos.

0:30:11.000 --> 0:30:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Our music was composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow

0:30:14.520 --> 0:30:17.800
<v Speaker 1>me on Instagram or Twitter at Laura Nywriter, and you

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 1>can follow me.

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 2>On Twitter at Sdrizzen.

0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:24.959
<v Speaker 1>For more information on the show, visit wrongfulconvictionpodcast dot com

0:30:25.280 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 1>and be sure to follow the show on Instagram at

0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:32.239
<v Speaker 1>Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Twitter at wrong Conviction