1
00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,640
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

2
00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:21,760
Speaker 2: The name Natalie Holloway will never be forgotten. The American

3
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 2: Beauty All, a student set to go to college, goes

4
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,080
Speaker 2: on her high school senior trip and is never seen

5
00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 2: alive again. In the Last Days, a development in the

6
00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:41,440
Speaker 2: state's case against Yorn Vanderslout. I'mancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

7
00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:43,919
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Foxination in

8
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:49,040
Speaker 2: series sexe one eleven. In the Last Days, Yorn Vanderslut,

9
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,800
Speaker 2: the judge's son, the main suspect in the disappearance and

10
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:58,560
Speaker 2: murder of Natalie Holloway, pleads not guilty to federal charges.

11
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 2: The charge is he's facing right now after his highly

12
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:08,720
Speaker 2: contentious and complicated extradition to the US. Vanderslut has pled

13
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,559
Speaker 2: not guilty to one count of extortion and one count

14
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 2: of wire fraud against Natalie's mother, Beth Holloway. The arrangment

15
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,800
Speaker 2: took place at eleven AM at Hugo L. Bly US

16
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,560
Speaker 2: Courthouse in Alabama. Vanderslute arrived just before.

17
00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 1: Eight a m.

18
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,840
Speaker 2: For his arrayment. The Dutch native the judges so is

19
00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,880
Speaker 2: escort to wearing handcuffs, a white Michael Jordan T shirt

20
00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,959
Speaker 2: and jeans. Why is he not in a prison jumpsuit?

21
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,840
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friends at NBC.

22
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 3: Jord Vanderslout the chief suspect in not Onie Holloway's disappearance

23
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 3: in a T shirt, jeans and handcuffs, pleading not guilty

24
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 3: to extortion in wire fraud charges, each charge carrying a

25
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,320
Speaker 3: twenty year sentence if he's convicted. The family showing up

26
00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 3: in court to see vander Slute face to face. Natalie's

27
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,200
Speaker 3: mother Beth sat stoically a few rose back, staring occasionally

28
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,080
Speaker 3: at vander Slute roughly ten feet away. She's never given

29
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,679
Speaker 3: up hope in the search for justice, telling NBC News

30
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, what I.

31
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,559
Speaker 4: Care about is information as to what happened to Natalie.

32
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,560
Speaker 2: Natalie's the mother of Beth, her father Dave, and brother

33
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:21,399
Speaker 2: Matt sat just feet away from the suspect. Beth's determined

34
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:29,080
Speaker 2: expression never flinched as she watched vander Slute shuffle into

35
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 2: the courtroom.

36
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:32,920
Speaker 1: How did the whole thing start?

37
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:37,680
Speaker 2: Natalie and Holloway last scene driving away from a local nightclubs.

38
00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,160
Speaker 1: She was just away on her high school senior trip.

39
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,200
Speaker 5: She has disappeared three guys that escorted Natalie from a

40
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:48,040
Speaker 5: restaurant bar Carlos and Charlie's her last night there on

41
00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 5: a room, but before she was supposed to leave the

42
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 5: next morning.

43
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:51,600
Speaker 1: These are the guys she.

44
00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 2: Was last seen with this statement that the boy vander

45
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,919
Speaker 2: Slut says, I took her down to the beach.

46
00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 1: It was around two am and.

47
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,240
Speaker 2: She wanted to stay there, so I left her there alone.

48
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:09,880
Speaker 2: This girl, a teen girl, beautiful, brilliant. You know, everyone

49
00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,160
Speaker 2: still has in their mind the picture of her out

50
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 2: on a football feel and her drill outfit doing a

51
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,679
Speaker 2: dance routine with all of her friends. Her body never recovered,

52
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 2: her whereabouts never known to wc IVY, ABC four Charleston

53
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:33,600
Speaker 2: reporter Anne Emerson, and the pain of Natalie's disappearance never

54
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,480
Speaker 2: goes away. And if anyone is expecting your Vanderslalut, a

55
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 2: two time killer, the judge's son who got special treatment

56
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,440
Speaker 2: in Aruba because his dad's judge, to ever tell what

57
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,960
Speaker 2: happened to Natalie, that ain't gonna happen, Anne Emerson.

58
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:55,040
Speaker 4: Nancy, this case has just transfixed America, the media. Anyone

59
00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 4: who could relate to this. It was the idea of

60
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,720
Speaker 4: losing your on a senior trip as they're just about

61
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,800
Speaker 4: to embark on their whole life. It was just it

62
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,440
Speaker 4: was more than anyone in America could even bear at

63
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 4: the time, and we all felt like we were part

64
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:16,240
Speaker 4: of the parents search for this child. It was unbelievable

65
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,280
Speaker 4: that just one every step they took trying to get

66
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,400
Speaker 4: this investigation underway, it was on some level impeded, as

67
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,400
Speaker 4: you said, because he had special privileges on the island.

68
00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:33,040
Speaker 6: And confusing, and it was it was just like unwrapping

69
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:37,919
Speaker 6: this really really complicated package, uh, that we're still unpacking.

70
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,159
Speaker 2: For those of you that recall the disappearance on Natalie Holloway,

71
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 2: the America Girl Austraight, a's student athlete set to go

72
00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,240
Speaker 2: to college to study pre med goes missing on our

73
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,200
Speaker 2: high school senior trip that was heavily chaper Take a

74
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:54,560
Speaker 2: listen to our friend Rick Sanchez.

75
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,359
Speaker 7: Natalie, you can reach me on your cell phone.

76
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,280
Speaker 8: I have it and it's set up for international use

77
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 8: now and I will stay here until I'll find you.

78
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:01,120
Speaker 1: Natalie.

79
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,839
Speaker 9: A mother's desperate plea for her missing daughter. Natalie Holloway

80
00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,279
Speaker 9: was among more than one hundred seniors on a graduation

81
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,080
Speaker 9: trip to Aruba.

82
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,679
Speaker 10: They're just typical high school girls out on the beach,

83
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,400
Speaker 10: on the beach having a good time on their senior trip.

84
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,640
Speaker 10: There's nothing unusual. Thousands and thousands of kids go on

85
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,920
Speaker 10: senior trips every summer, and they should. I mean, these

86
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:21,720
Speaker 10: kids who are growing up.

87
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,680
Speaker 9: Marcia Twitty is Natalie's aunt. She says, nobody seemed to

88
00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,159
Speaker 9: notice that when the friends left the nightclub, Natalie wasn't

89
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:29,640
Speaker 9: with them.

90
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,839
Speaker 10: Everybody saw everybody had each other because there's a bunch

91
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,640
Speaker 10: of them, a bunch she wasn't, you know, twenty or so.

92
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 10: There's a whole bunch of kids, and they all kind of,

93
00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:40,960
Speaker 10: you know, went in with the bed that night.

94
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,000
Speaker 9: It wasn't until people started waking up Monday morning ready

95
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,719
Speaker 9: to return to Birmingham that they realized she was missing.

96
00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,159
Speaker 2: How did Natalie Holloway seemingly slip through everyone's fingers? Take

97
00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 2: a listen to her friend Francis.

98
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,440
Speaker 9: Natalie's friend Francis was staying in an adjacent room.

99
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: What did you feel like Monday.

100
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 9: Morning when you guys were all getting ready to go

101
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 9: and you realized that she wasn't around.

102
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,560
Speaker 7: We immediately knew something was wrong because she was her

103
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,280
Speaker 7: roommates knocked on my door and said that they didn't

104
00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 7: know where she was. We went straight to the chaperones

105
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 7: and they immediately started working on it.

106
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,840
Speaker 9: They suspected Natalie was still on the island because in

107
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,600
Speaker 9: her room they found her luggage right, found her passport right,

108
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,640
Speaker 9: but no Natalie Ruben. Authorities have been joined by the

109
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,760
Speaker 9: FBI in the search. So far, there has been little

110
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 9: to go on. Three A Reubens students did tell investigators, though,

111
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,599
Speaker 9: that they dropped Natalie off that night at her hotel.

112
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,960
Speaker 9: But something about that story doesn't sit right with Natalie's aunt.

113
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 2: Well, it certainly didn't sit right, and that story quickly changed.

114
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,520
Speaker 2: Joining me, ro ould Manchanda Attorney, international law expert, author

115
00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 2: of a book series, Deep State Defector Roll.

116
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 1: Thank you again for being with us. Explain to me

117
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:04,000
Speaker 1: the legal.

118
00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,719
Speaker 2: Mechanics about how jord vanderslou can ever be brought to

119
00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 2: justice for Natalie's murder.

120
00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 11: In this case was a hallmark case in the sense

121
00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,120
Speaker 11: of international law, and it kind of held up foreign

122
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,320
Speaker 11: investigatory bodies to a scrutiny the.

123
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 12: Standard maintained by the US.

124
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 11: The FBI, for example, Secret Service had gotten involved because

125
00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,240
Speaker 11: they were so frustrated with the relative slowness and laxity

126
00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 11: of the local Uruban investigation. And I really believe in

127
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,960
Speaker 11: retrospect hindsight that all the stuff that happened the Peruvian angle,

128
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,520
Speaker 11: you know, all these other issues really are sort of

129
00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,480
Speaker 11: an offshoot of the you know, really lack of ability

130
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:44,720
Speaker 11: in the first forty eight as they would say, to

131
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,840
Speaker 11: really get a handle on this case. It seemed to

132
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,200
Speaker 11: me that just you know, like you said, there was

133
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 11: issues about you know, the judge.

134
00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:50,640
Speaker 13: Being his father.

135
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 11: There was corruption issues, maybe assistants by local police departments

136
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,000
Speaker 11: or investigatory bodies, but this case really just ran away

137
00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,200
Speaker 11: from the local investigations. And now look at where we are,

138
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 11: and with this extortion money which he you know, he

139
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,160
Speaker 11: received the money and then now spending it, that would

140
00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,640
Speaker 11: that would be enough for a personal and subject matter jurisdiction.

141
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 2: We just heard Rahulman Chanda state that your van Heersleute

142
00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 2: got an extortion money. What's he talking about, Ann Emerson?

143
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 14: The extortion money.

144
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,920
Speaker 4: Well, what happened was he had contacted a lawyer from

145
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 4: Best Holloway Twitty. She was remarried, and Best Twitty would

146
00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,760
Speaker 4: had contacted a lawyer on her side and had said

147
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,080
Speaker 4: that he had information. Now this is when he was

148
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,640
Speaker 4: in Aruba and when he wanted to he wanted to

149
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 4: give them the where their daughter's remains were. He said

150
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,880
Speaker 4: he knew where her remains were, and for two hundred

151
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,719
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand dollars that information could be theirs.

152
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,160
Speaker 6: But I don't think at any point the mother.

153
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,000
Speaker 14: Was looking to get some.

154
00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,560
Speaker 4: To get the truth out of him, because he had

155
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:00,520
Speaker 4: been so untruthful all of these years.

156
00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 14: It was just lie after lie. This was about actually.

157
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 4: Trying to catch your Vanderslute and get hit and bring

158
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:12,680
Speaker 4: him to justice. And this this extortion plan was Walks

159
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,199
Speaker 4: just going all the way with the FBI trying to

160
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,440
Speaker 4: make sure that they got him. Now we're talking about

161
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. She actually did a

162
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 4: test about the wire that he asked for.

163
00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:24,959
Speaker 14: To transfer money, and she spent out.

164
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 4: She she just sent one hundred dollars to see if

165
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,440
Speaker 4: it actually worked, and it did, and that sort of

166
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 4: that was the catalyst to kind of go into this

167
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:37,000
Speaker 4: whole wire fraud extortion scheme and a sting with the FBI.

168
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,520
Speaker 4: They set it up. They got ten thousand dollars to

169
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 4: your vander Slut. They were transferring fifteen thousand dollars and

170
00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 4: that was the deal, twenty five thousand dollars ahead of time.

171
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:55,880
Speaker 4: Somehow Vanderslute gets the money and escapes Aruba with Bes's money.

172
00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,400
Speaker 2: Steven Lampley Rollman Shanda said something really important. He said

173
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,080
Speaker 2: a lot of important things, but he also said the

174
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 2: case was screwed up with Natalie in the first forty eight.

175
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,839
Speaker 2: Explain what Ralman Shanda, who's an international law expert, was

176
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:10,760
Speaker 2: talking about as.

177
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 8: What you're talking about the first forty eight that is

178
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 8: the most important time frame for any investigation. It's sort

179
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 8: of like the golden hour EMTs. It's just the time

180
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,280
Speaker 8: frame that we want to be fully active. We want

181
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,840
Speaker 8: to pull out all the resources and we want to

182
00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,200
Speaker 8: try to find everything we can in the first forty

183
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,439
Speaker 8: eight hours, because it's just the matter of life. After

184
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:43,719
Speaker 8: forty eight hours, the propenpathy to solve the crime lessons

185
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 8: with every hour thereafter.

186
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 2: Prime stories with me, Grace. The hearing that just went

187
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,600
Speaker 2: down at the Hugo L. Black Us Courthouse only lasted

188
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 2: a little under five minutes. At the very beginning, Van

189
00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,440
Speaker 2: der Slute turned down the services of a Dutch translator, bragging,

190
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,719
Speaker 2: my English is actually pretty perfect UK.

191
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at ABC.

192
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 15: So thirty five year old pleaded not guilty to those

193
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 15: extortion and wire fraud charges. Van der Slult started out

194
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 15: by choosing not to use an interpreter in court, telling

195
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,960
Speaker 15: the judge that his English is perfect and that he

196
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,520
Speaker 15: didn't need one. Right after the three minute arrayment, I

197
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,480
Speaker 15: caught up with the Hallway spokesperson. He told me that

198
00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 15: she's relieved that Van der slot is here in the

199
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 15: US after such a long process.

200
00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,240
Speaker 2: Judge Gray Bowden asked vander Slut if he understood all

201
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 2: of his constitutional rights and the extortion and wire charges

202
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:54,080
Speaker 2: against him. Van der Slute responded yes, sir each time. Well,

203
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,680
Speaker 2: unlike Brian Cooburger, he did plead not guilty. Remember Coburger

204
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 2: just stood there and remained silent. The prosecution asked that

205
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,080
Speaker 2: Vandersloot stay in US custody because of the treaty it

206
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 2: has with Peru, where he still faces the rest of

207
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,400
Speaker 2: his sentence and the murder of Stephanie Tossiana Flores. He

208
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 2: was being held at the Hoover City Jail, but was

209
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,400
Speaker 2: moved to the Shelby County Jail after the arraignment. How

210
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,000
Speaker 2: did we end up here? Because he was a judge's

211
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,400
Speaker 2: son there in Aruba, he slipped through the fingers of

212
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,800
Speaker 2: Lady Justice and he ended up murdering five years to

213
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:40,680
Speaker 2: the day, Stephanie Tossiana Flores, same modus operandi, method of operation.

214
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 2: Art Harris, meet Sarretta Casino. She's a young girl. Now

215
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,120
Speaker 2: she's dead. I don't want it to happen again.

216
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 16: Art Matthew. Everyone knew on Aruba that this was his

217
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 16: mo that he prayed on young women the night before

218
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,000
Speaker 16: they were just to come back to the US if

219
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,440
Speaker 16: they were on one of these trips. And so he

220
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 16: is he is not he was. He was more of

221
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,600
Speaker 16: a danger in Aruba, well than than I suppose he

222
00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 16: was in Peru, except to kill the bow and girl

223
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,960
Speaker 16: as well. But he is he is, you know, just

224
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,840
Speaker 16: he is just beyond the pale of pure He is

225
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 16: pure evil.

226
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 2: So he is pure evil, and I don't know how

227
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 2: he's well, actually, I.

228
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:24,560
Speaker 1: Think you're right.

229
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 2: I started to disagree with you, but I think he

230
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 2: was more dangerous in Aruba because he had free reign

231
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,680
Speaker 2: in the protection of his father, the judge and the

232
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:35,840
Speaker 2: protection of the police there.

233
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,080
Speaker 1: They did, remember Cheryl McCollum.

234
00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,839
Speaker 2: Guys with me, Cheryl McCollum, she and I, along with

235
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,960
Speaker 2: Natalie's mom, went to Aruba to read trace the steps

236
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,679
Speaker 2: as we know them, to see if we could dig

237
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,160
Speaker 2: up any information, and we did. Cheryl McCollum, director of

238
00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,600
Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute and star of.

239
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 1: A hit podcast, Zone seven.

240
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,920
Speaker 2: Cheryl, he has a protection on only of his father,

241
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,680
Speaker 2: but of the police in Aruba, and that bore out

242
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,679
Speaker 2: with what Beth told us about how they treated.

243
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,040
Speaker 1: Her and would not help her in any way.

244
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 2: She's alone in a foreign country trying to find her

245
00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,840
Speaker 2: daughter with no help from the police, and then they

246
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,200
Speaker 2: tried to arrest us. I mean, long story short, they

247
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,160
Speaker 2: did nothing. So he did have it a more of

248
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 2: a free reign and Aruba to pray on young women.

249
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,040
Speaker 14: He had free reign and he had help. He had

250
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,320
Speaker 14: associates that would drive him. We were told when we

251
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,560
Speaker 14: were there that there were bartenders that would slip through

252
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,000
Speaker 14: hypnol to victims.

253
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 12: We were told.

254
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,800
Speaker 14: That, and then when we were there, not only did

255
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,800
Speaker 14: they try to arrest us, but they followed us around

256
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 14: everywhere we went, and then to me. The most shocking

257
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 14: thing was when we went across the street all the

258
00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 14: businesses and one by one they slammed the doors, lost

259
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 14: them in terms of open tign to close. They wouldn't

260
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,600
Speaker 14: even let us in a store to get a bottle

261
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:08,960
Speaker 14: of water.

262
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:13,440
Speaker 2: Nobody wants the truth about Natalie to be found on

263
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 2: that island, and that is why it is so imperative

264
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,560
Speaker 2: that we get him here.

265
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,320
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at NBC.

266
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 17: Authorities may take the main suspect in the disappearance of

267
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 17: Natalie Holloway to the US in just a matter of days.

268
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 17: You're on Vendor Slut was moved on Saturday from one

269
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,360
Speaker 17: Peruvian prison to another, all in preparation for his extradition

270
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,280
Speaker 17: to the United States to face charges of extortion.

271
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 1: Holloway, you will remember, vanished while.

272
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,800
Speaker 17: She was on vacation in Aruba in two thousand and five.

273
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:45,880
Speaker 1: Her body never was found.

274
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 2: But interesting, he is not your inventor. Sluite is not

275
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,000
Speaker 2: being brought to the US even as we speak because

276
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:59,000
Speaker 2: of Natalie's murder. He's here on entirely different charges. Take

277
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 2: us into O'Brien.

278
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 18: Prosecutors alleged Vander Sloop promised Holloway's parents, he divulged the

279
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 18: location of her body and give them details about the

280
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 18: manner of her death, allegedly asking to be paid two

281
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,360
Speaker 18: hundred and fifty thousand dollars with twenty five thousand up front.

282
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 18: He's then accused of giving information that was worthless. Vanishing

283
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,800
Speaker 18: in Aruba during a graduation trip, Eighteen year old Natalie

284
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 18: Holloway's body has never been found. She was officially declared

285
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,760
Speaker 18: dead by a judge in twenty twelve. Vander Sloop was

286
00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,880
Speaker 18: one of the last people to see her alive.

287
00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:37,840
Speaker 2: Straight out to doctor Chloe Carmichael, joining us clinical psychologist,

288
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,000
Speaker 2: author of Nervous Energy, Harnessed the Power of Your Anxiety,

289
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 2: and you can find her at doctor Chloe dot com.

290
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,440
Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe, thank you for being with us. So here's a.

291
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 2: Guy that I firmly believe killed Natalie Holloway, a teen girl, straight.

292
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,720
Speaker 1: A student set to go to college in.

293
00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 2: Pre mad I don't care how happened, but he did it.

294
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 2: He's given various accounts of how Natalie died over the years.

295
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 2: They're all inconsistent with each other, and all of them

296
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,160
Speaker 2: amount to, if not murder, one premeditated murder. They amount

297
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 2: to felony murder, a death occurring in the commission of

298
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 2: a felony, that being raped, that being sodomy, that being kidnapped,

299
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,119
Speaker 2: false imprisonment, aggravators. So it could be a number of

300
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,080
Speaker 2: various felonies and a death occurred during the felony, which

301
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:34,960
Speaker 2: equals felony murder no doubt.

302
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 1: In my mind. So we've got a guy who I.

303
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:43,400
Speaker 2: Believe murdered this teen girl now trying to squeeze two

304
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,960
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand dollars out of the victim's mother.

305
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,359
Speaker 1: What does that tell you, doctor Chloe.

306
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,680
Speaker 19: So Ceo, Pass my goodness, Nancy, I think you hit

307
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 19: the nail on the head. And honestly, I'm inclined to

308
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 19: agree with your feeling that he appears likely to have

309
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,439
Speaker 19: done this murder and then to essentially toy with the

310
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 19: family by trying to extort them for money.

311
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 1: I'm glad that.

312
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 20: They are extra dating him back so that the family

313
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,200
Speaker 20: can at least begin to have some shred of accountability

314
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 20: with what appears to just be the really vicious sociopath.

315
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 2: And you know, Matthew Mangino joining me, high profio lawyer,

316
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 2: joining us out of lawrence County, author of the Executioner's Toll,

317
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:33,000
Speaker 2: and you can find a Mattmanngino dot com.

318
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 1: Matthew, thank you for being with us.

319
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 12: Thank you.

320
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 2: So often we hear about how prisoners are quote misunderstood.

321
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure that I misunderstand them. I don't want to

322
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 2: understand them, really, because I don't want to go in

323
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 2: their brain, in their mind and try to figure them out. Now,

324
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,399
Speaker 2: not everyone behind bars is a quote bad person, But

325
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 2: think about your van der Sloot. He murders a defensives

326
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,280
Speaker 2: teen girl that I believe he drugged with GHB gamma

327
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 2: hydroxy butyrate, and then she ends up dead. I also

328
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 2: believe he raped her because he described in detail the designs.

329
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 2: I believe there were flowers on her underwear. Now he's

330
00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 2: trying to extort money from the victim's mother, desperate to

331
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 2: find Natalie, or at least find her remains. You know,

332
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 2: I'm not even mentioning the murder of Stephanie Tasciana Flores,

333
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:42,399
Speaker 2: or the woman he got pregnant behind bars in Peru,

334
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 2: who now he's divorcing for someone quote younger and prettier,

335
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 2: or the drug scheme he has behind bars. Forget all

336
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 2: that just the murder of Natalie and trying to extort

337
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 2: money from her mother.

338
00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean, certainly we know from his record here

339
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 12: that he's he's not a good person.

340
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 2: Man, Wait a minute, not a good person, right, Okay,

341
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,879
Speaker 2: Jat is certainly putting perfume on the pig. Not a

342
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 2: good person. He's a repeat killer. That's a serial killer

343
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 2: right there.

344
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,959
Speaker 12: Well, but we know that he's murdered one person because

345
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 12: he's received a twenty eight year cent. You believe he's

346
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 12: murdered another person, but that hasn't been proven in the

347
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 12: court of law, and we can't. But we can't just say, hey,

348
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,760
Speaker 12: you know he you know this is his mo. We

349
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,440
Speaker 12: don't know that he killed Natalie Halloway.

350
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sorry, is there's something wrong with my IFB,

351
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 2: because I'm pretty sure I heard Matthew man Gina.

352
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: Say we don't know that he killed Natalie Holloway.

353
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 2: Art Harris, I'm pretty sure. Wait no, I'm not pretty sure.

354
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,240
Speaker 2: I'm convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that your vander slut

355
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: killed Natalie Holloway. And again, I'm not saying he woke

356
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 2: up that more morning and thought, Wow, I'm going to

357
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 2: kill Natalie Holloway and had some long extended plans that

358
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: just poisoning her over a period of time. It could

359
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 2: have been a matter of him raping her and she

360
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 2: started throwing up the GHB on the beach and ended

361
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 2: up dead.

362
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: That's fell any murder crime stories with Nancy Grace.

363
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 2: In the last days, Jordan van der Slut, the judge's

364
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 2: son from Aruba who many believe kidnapped, raped, and murdered

365
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: an Alabama beauty, Natalie Holloway, has appeared in a US

366
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 2: courtroom and pled not guilty. I mean, really, what did

367
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 2: you expect for him to tell the truth? Pleading not

368
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: guilty to extorting Natalie's mother thousands of dollars? And we

369
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,119
Speaker 2: may never get a murder conviction on now's death because

370
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: that would have to be done in Aruba. Sadly, I'm

371
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 2: gonna dare to circle back to Matthew Mangino in a

372
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 2: moment to explain why we have to try that case

373
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: in Aruba. But Joe Scott Morgan joining me, professor of

374
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 2: forensics Jacksonville State University, who has an incredible criminal science department.

375
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 2: I've been there, I've toured it, I've seen it at work.

376
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: It's amazing.

377
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 2: Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and host

378
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 2: of Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan.

379
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, he did it.

380
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 2: And I hear Matthew Mangino, former prosecutor now defense attorney.

381
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: I get where he's coming from.

382
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: He did it. I don't care what Mangino says. He

383
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: did it. I don't know how he did it, Joe Scott,

384
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: but he did it. He killed her.

385
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 13: The problem is, Lord, the problem is I need to

386
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 13: do There is no corpus DELECTI, Nancy, there is no

387
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 13: body when it comes to the physical person of Natalie Holloway.

388
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,719
Speaker 2: You know what, being a quote a staying professor of forensics,

389
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 2: I expected more than there's no body.

390
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 13: Well, it's a tough road, Nancy, when you don't have

391
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 13: a body, because you know just the basic things like

392
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 13: manner of death, cause of death, those things are you

393
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 13: can only speculate about that. And I think that that's

394
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 13: probably what matt is getting to, at least in that

395
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,360
Speaker 13: one little segment. But what we do have are circumstantial

396
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 13: events surrounding Natalie Holloway and also his predatory behavior based

397
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 13: upon what we're hearing from these other witnesses associated with

398
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 13: him where he would actually spike drinks and this was

399
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 13: a common occurrence at this one particular bar down there

400
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 13: where he could take advantage. I think one of my

401
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 13: big question in Nancy here is why is Reuben not

402
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 13: motivated to look into a lot of other desks that

403
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 13: have occurred down there where we have missing young women

404
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 13: that have never turned back up? Did he have a

405
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 13: hand in that? You use the term serial killer just

406
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 13: a moment ago, and I think that that's something that

407
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 13: should deeply, deeply be explored down there because it's quite troubling.

408
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 13: And is there anybody else that work down there in

409
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 13: that area that knows that their crimes will be assisted

410
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 13: in facilitation?

411
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 1: Yeah?

412
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 2: Just got I've always respected you, I don't always agree

413
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: with you, but let me just be blunt.

414
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: What fairytale are you living in? Man?

415
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 2: Aruba is no more going to investigate missing girls and

416
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 2: women on their island than the man in the moon

417
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: is going to Because you just heard Art Harris pipe

418
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: up tourism. Who's going to put a toe on Aruba

419
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 2: when you know women go missing and drop dead like flies.

420
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: It's no, They're not going to uncover anything, you know,

421
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum. I'm deeply disappointed by certain members of our

422
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: panel today and they shall remain nameless. But they're saying,

423
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: we don't know if you're in Vandersliet murdered Natalie. What

424
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:16,199
Speaker 2: about his multiple confessions, they're all inconsistent. If somebody accused

425
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 2: me and murdered, I'd say, oh, hgln, I was so

426
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 2: and so at that time. That did not happen. You're

427
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 2: not taking me away from my toys. It's not going

428
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 2: to happen. But here he goes, Okay, let me tell

429
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: you how it happened. She hit her head on a rock,

430
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: she choked on vomit. She this, we buried her. Now

431
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 2: we threw her out at see. Why would he give

432
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 2: all of these confessions help me? Cheryl, I obviously have

433
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 2: some non believers. I must ferret out on the panel.

434
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 14: Not only has he admitted it multiple times, but I

435
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 14: want to remind everybody he wrote a book. He wrote

436
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 14: a book where he put his faith on the cover

437
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 14: and said the Case of Natalie Holloway, my own story

438
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 14: about her disappearance. In the title, he says it's the

439
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 14: case because he knows it's the criminal case. And in

440
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 14: that book. He admits the line in that book he

441
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 14: said he found himself at the wrong place, at the

442
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 14: wrong time and made a wrong decision.

443
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: You mean he found himself with her dead body. That's

444
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: what he meant exactly.

445
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 14: And then we had the similar transaction with Stephanie Flores.

446
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 14: Then we have his friend coming forward. Remember this guy

447
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 14: that says, oh, we burn her up and mixture bones

448
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 14: in with some dog bones. But they did find a

449
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 14: human bone of a Caucasian European person and Aruba did

450
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 14: what with that?

451
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: Noting they don't want it.

452
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 14: They don't want any negative publicity because of their tourism.

453
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 14: We know for a fact they have human bones that

454
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 14: are not Natalie but somebody else and they will do

455
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 14: nothing with it.

456
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: Guys, how did the extortion scam begin?

457
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: What is the.

458
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 2: Genesis of your van der sluet starting Natalie's mother?

459
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? You know, ar Harris, you.

460
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: And I you on the media side, me as a

461
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 2: felony prosecutor, handled a lot of murder cases, and there

462
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: is no grief like a murder victim's mother endears nothing

463
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: like it. You have children, you have your beautiful boys.

464
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: I mean that changes everything to take advantage of Natalie's

465
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: mother in that way, what a pos technical legal.

466
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 16: He's a con man with less of a conscience than

467
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 16: most because he is willing to pray on someone whose

468
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 16: heart is so broken that they are willing to do

469
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 16: anything to find any information that they think this guy

470
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 16: is going to cough up, and if they have to

471
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 16: pay for it, fine, But they also know the f

472
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 16: the eye is washing and they're laying a trap. They

473
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 16: hope that's going to lead to what just happened, which

474
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 16: is making the case for extortion and wirefraud against Mandisley,

475
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 16: where she can get a piece of him at least

476
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 16: a ten to twenty year sentence that would let him

477
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 16: spend part of his natural life here and then he

478
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 16: gets shipped back to the horrors of Peruvian prison. So

479
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 16: looking too good for him.

480
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 2: I can only pray Art Harris, Guys, what is a

481
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 2: genesis of the two hundred and fifty thousand dollars demand?

482
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: Take a listen our friends at wc SC.

483
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 21: In twenty ten, a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars

484
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 21: reward for information was offered. Vanderslote stepped forward. According to

485
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 21: legal documents, he would reveal the location of Natalie Holloway's body,

486
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 21: the circumstances of her death, and identify those involved in

487
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 21: return for a payment of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars.

488
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 21: The Halloway's attorney went with Vanderslote to a home in

489
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 21: Aruba and a twenty five thousand dollars down payment was

490
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 21: given to him. Once there, Van der Slote pointed to

491
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 21: the residence and said that Natalie's body would be found

492
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 21: in the foundation. Vanderslote emailed the Holloways after fleeing to Peru,

493
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 21: saying he had lied about the location of Natalie's remains.

494
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 1: And what did he do with it?

495
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: Twenty five grand he scammed from Natalie's grieving mother.

496
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: Listen to this.

497
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 21: Surveillance video from a Lima casino shows Van der Slote gambling,

498
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 21: it is believed with the twenty five thousand he got

499
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 21: from the Holloway family. There he met the daughter of

500
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 21: a prominent Peruvian businessman, Stephanie Floydis. Hours later she was dead.

501
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 22: I am truly regretful for what I have done.

502
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 21: Vanderslote admitted to the violent murder and was sent to prison.

503
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 2: So he gets the twenty five grand that he extortes

504
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: from Nally's mother, goes straight to Peru and spends it,

505
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: spins it at casinos, and there he meets Stephanie Tassiana Flores.

506
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 2: I want to talk about what's happening to your vander Slute.

507
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.

508
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 21: You're in vander Slope, one of Peru's highest profile inmates,

509
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 21: injured during a brawl in one of the country's most

510
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 21: violent prisons. It was a fight among some inmates, and

511
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 21: my client got involved when he tried to defend his friend.

512
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 21: Vander Slote is in prison for killing a woman in

513
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 21: Peru thirteen years ago.

514
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,239
Speaker 17: I want to give a sincere confession.

515
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 2: A sincere confession, my rear end there's not one sincere

516
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 2: bone and your in.

517
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: Vander Slut's body. Take a listen to Jay O'Brien Gma.

518
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 18: His lawyer, telling ABC News he was severely beaten in

519
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 18: the Peruvian prison where he was being held, but that

520
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 18: the incident is unrelated to vander Slut's extradition. He's now

521
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 18: expected to be handed over to Peruvian intelligence agents, then

522
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 18: delivered to US officials, and ultimately brought to Alabama, where

523
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 18: the Dutch national faces more than a decade old federal

524
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 18: extortion and wirefraud charges tied to Holloway's disappearance.

525
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 2: Joining me right now an expert an extradition and foreign

526
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 2: government relations with the US as it relates to our

527
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: justice system. IRV Brandt is with a senior inspector with

528
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 2: the US Marshall Service their International Investigations Branch, Chief Inspector DOJ,

529
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: Office of International Affairs. Author of Solo Shot and Flying

530
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: Solo on Amazon.

531
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: IRV Brandt two things.

532
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: I'm very suspicious of the beating incident which caused him

533
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: we understand to be moved to a different jail in Peru.

534
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: I don't like it. He could have been put in solitary.

535
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: Any number of measures could have been taken other than

536
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: moving him. And it is very often in a jailhouse

537
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: move I mean, look at Bundy.

538
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: He escaped.

539
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: At the courthouse, in the law library. Whenever there's a

540
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,719
Speaker 2: change of conditions. If you look at escape piece, very happened.

541
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 2: Very often the escape takes place when they are being transported,

542
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: So he gets in a fight and has to be

543
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: transported to another jail. What they don't have another cell

544
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 2: at the current jail he was in. I don't like

545
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: the smell of.

546
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 22: That right there, No, Nancy, it stinks to high heaven,

547
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 22: and it arouses suspicions on the motivations of the people

548
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 22: handling him, Maybe the motivations of him. Maybe he was

549
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 22: intentionally trying to get into a fight so he could

550
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 22: get into a medical wing. There's a lot to be

551
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 22: considered when you're handling prisoner transfers.

552
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: And why now he's been in jail for murdering Stephanie

553
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: Tosciana Flores, same mo modus operad I'm method of operation

554
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: as with Natalie at a casino, young female lures her away,

555
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: she ends up dead. Why now does he suddenly get

556
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: in a fight and have to move jail facilities.

557
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 22: They moved him from his facility to the facility in

558
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 22: the Capitol, and that's probably what started to fight. Is

559
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 22: he is in a brand new facility with inmates that

560
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 22: have never come in contact with them before. You're right,

561
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 22: and he got into an altercation. And I'm sure he's

562
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 22: in isolation now until he can be turned over to

563
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 22: the FBI. Oh, I'm sure have the paperwork done, They

564
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 22: have the parole letter, They have a jet waiting just

565
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 22: as soon as he's turned over to him, they're going

566
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 22: to go wheels up and they'll be heading for the

567
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 22: US and just as soon as he lands in the US,

568
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 22: as soon as they get him back to Alabama, they're

569
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 22: going to bring him in for his initial appearance and

570
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 22: detention hearing. Where if you remanded to the custody of

571
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 22: the United States Marshall Service.

572
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 2: Another question to IRV Brandt joining US US Marshal Service International,

573
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 2: why is it shrouded in secrecy the extradition process. They

574
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: always get the prisoner in the middle of the night.

575
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 1: Why is that?

576
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 22: It's just security precautions that are standard in every extradition

577
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 22: with a high profile cases. Even more, if you announce it,

578
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 22: you're going to have news helicopters flying around when you're

579
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 22: trying to get a shot of him being loaded on

580
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 22: the jet. You're going to have people gathered around in

581
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 22: terminals or places where they land. It's just something that

582
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 22: you try to avoid. The less people who know, the

583
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 22: more control you have over the situation. Like you said

584
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 22: about fearing an incident in transit, it just cuts down

585
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 22: on the chances of there being an incident.

586
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: I mean, for Pete's sake.

587
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, I couldn't bring a witness over from the

588
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: Fulton County Jail to the Fulton County Courthouse without some

589
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 2: incident on the jail transport bus somebody getting stabbed with

590
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 2: a pencil, or a fight breaking out, or the witness

591
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 2: getting intimidated, just on the twenty minute ride to the courthouse,

592
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 2: much less transcontinental flight from Peru to the US.

593
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: There's a lot that could go wrong.

594
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 14: There's a lot that could go wrong. But I'm going

595
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 14: to tell you the Marshall Service are top drawer. He's

596
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 14: going to be handcuffed. They already know he's a con artist.

597
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 14: They already know what he's about. They are not going

598
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 14: to be fooled. They are not going to be impressed.

599
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 14: They are going to have zero issue getting him to Alabama.

600
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 14: And once he's there, it's going to be a different

601
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 14: world for him. I promise you, he ain't going to

602
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 14: be running drugs there, he ain't going to have no

603
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 14: collgo visit there. It's going to be a completely different

604
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 14: world immediately.

605
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't always end the way we think it will

606
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 2: when it comes to extraditions. It's frankly a miracle that

607
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: we've gotten this far and it's taken two decades to

608
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 2: get this guy extradited to the US. Do I need

609
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: to say the name Roman Polanski? Take us to your

610
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: own news.

611
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 23: Poland Supreme Court is a rule that filmmaker Roman Polanski

612
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 23: cannot be extradited too the US over a child sex

613
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 23: conviction in the nineteen seventies. The three judges rejected an

614
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 23: appealed by the Polish government a district court in Crackoff.

615
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 23: It also ruled the American demand was inadmissible. The Supreme

616
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 23: Court's decision is final. The United States had requested the

617
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 23: Oscar winning director's extradition after he made a high profile

618
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 23: appearance in Warsaw two years ago. Polanski, who is now

619
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 23: eighty three, admitted unlawful sex with a thirteen year old

620
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 23: girl in nineteen seventy seven. He spent six weeks in

621
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 23: jail after a plea bug in, but then fled the US,

622
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 23: fearing a lengthy jail sentence if the agreement was overruled.

623
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 23: His victim has said the filmmaker's exile has been punishment enough.

624
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 23: Polanski has dual French Polish nationality and lives in France,

625
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 23: which doesn't extradite it citizens.

626
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: So there you have France refusing to extradite an alleged

627
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 2: child rapist Roman Polanski. On the other hand, sometimes it

628
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 2: all works out the way you wanted to Take a

629
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: listen hour cut one oh seven our friends at ABC.

630
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 24: This dramatic moment was the beginning of the end for

631
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 24: Joaquin al Chappel Gusman. After his long run from the law,

632
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 24: repeatedly escaping authorities, he was now caught. He had no

633
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 24: idea where he was being taken. In this never before

634
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 24: seen video obtained by ABC News, this was the moment

635
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 24: when the notorious drug lord learned he had landed in

636
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 24: New York. He had been brought to the US to

637
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 24: face justice.

638
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: What about a single female hiding out in Costa Rica.

639
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: Take a list and his name, Kaitlin Armstrong ring a

640
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 2: bell to our cut one hundred our friends at Fox seven.

641
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: Armstrong used a passport.

642
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 25: Now, the real identity of the person who had that passport,

643
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 25: we're told, was somebody who closely physically resembled her. She

644
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 25: continued using that alias well in Costa Rica, taking a

645
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,720
Speaker 25: bus going to yoga studios. This enabled authorities to establish

646
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 25: a paper trail and eventually close in on her.

647
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 2: And when Kaitlin Armstrong was finally found she had actually

648
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: had cosmetic surgery to change her appearance. That said Cheryl McCollum,

649
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 2: it's a miracle. That was Judge's son, Jorn van der

650
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 2: Sloot in a court of law, finally on us soil. Well,

651
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 2: this is just the beginning of a long and painful

652
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: process where Yorn Vanderslout will be tried for extorting, blackmailing

653
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: through wire fraud Natalie's From what I know about Beth Holloway,

654
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: she is going to see it through to the bitter end.

655
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 2: God bless her and Natalie's entire family. We wait as

656
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 2: just as unfolds. Goodbye, friend,