WEBVTT - Ajay Banga 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.520 After World War Two, the World Bank was set up 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.119 to help with the reconstruction of Europe. Currently, the World 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.880 Bank focuses on rehabilitating countries in the Global South. A 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.000 man from the Global South, a j Bannga, is now 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.040 the head of the World Bank. I had a chance 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.520 to sit down with him recently to talk about how 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.000 the World Bank is operating today and how it differs 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:24.520 from his previous job CEO of MasterCard. 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:25.920 So for those. 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.680 People that might be unfamiliar with the World Bank, what 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:31.360 exactly is the World Bank? 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.239 The World Bank, David has five units in it. The 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.600 first unit that was created was the International Bank of 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.400 Reconstruction and Development IBID, and that was what was created 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:45.640 during the Bretton Woods conference if he spoke off. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:47.839 This is in the after World War Two that were 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:49.599 set up. Largely I thought. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.320 To reconstruct Europe and reconstruct Europe, and so there was 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.560 a big debate on the topic of should development be 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:57.280 added to the name or art because it is reconstruction 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.880 that is the primary focus. And eventually the pounding folks 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.440 who sat around there came to the conclusion that there 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:06.280 would be a mission for this that went beyond the reconstruction, 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.960 as it turned out that is what happened. The next 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:12.080 part of the bank that got created was IDA, the 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:16.240 International Development Association that caters to the poorest countries in 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.400 the world, seventy eight of them currently. But in history, 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:22.960 you know, South Korea was a recipient divider, China was 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.560 a recipient of IDEA India. Yes, so you know Turkey. 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.720 These are countries that have now prospered and grown. But 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.840 both IBID and IDA construed what people call the World Bank. 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:38.120 Then came IFC, which was the arm created to work 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.319 with the private sector and to help catalyze private investment. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.720 Along came NIAGA, which is the insurance Guarantee Agency which 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:50.120 provides political risk insurance and other such insurances for people 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:52.680 like us in our old lives investing in countries. And 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.880 then the fifth part of it is called Exit. There 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:56.640 are plenty of acronyms in the bank. By the way, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.520 there's a vice personal of acronyms hiding somewhere in the bank. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:05.400 But the exit basically is a settlement of investment disputes. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:07.880 So again, in our old lives, if you had a 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.800 dispute to the sovereign, that's where you would come to 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.320 for arbitration and settlement. Those are the five units put together, 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.560 we do about one hundred and twenty billion of lending 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:22.000 in a year across the five IDA provides grants. One 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.160 third of what it gives is pure grants to the 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:28.000 poorest countries. The others are all concessional or price loans. 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.160 All right, So the World Bank Credit after World War 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.839 Two now has many different missions. You say, you lend 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.040 out about one hundred and twenty billion dollars a year take, Yeah, 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.600 And it's headquartered in Washington, DC, and it has a 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.440 very unusual governance structure. I don't know who set that up, 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.080 but what is the who came up with that idea 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:48.520 of Rube Goldberg or somebody? 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:49.200 How does that work? 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.600 If you were countries contributing capital and money in the 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.359 case of IBID and ifc capital comes once in a while, 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.720 bank earns money on the loans it gives to developing 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.600 two countries who borrow, and the repayment of those loans 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:06.480 more than covers the administrative expenses of the bank. So 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.600 it's actually not reliant on taxpayer funding for administrative expenses. 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.120 It is reliant on taxpayer funding for IDA because the 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.519 poorest countries, because they give away money to them every 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.359 third every year that needs money. The way there for 0:03:21.480 --> 0:03:23.239 taxpayers that are involved in this whole thing, and I 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.280 think government's basically said that if they're going to be 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.680 putting money into this, we'd like to have some insight 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.720 into it. That created this structure where there are twenty 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:34.680 five executive directors full time who sit here in Washington, 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.240 DC with some staff. Each of them represents either one 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.040 country or a group of countries, depending on how much 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:42.320 capital is coming from them. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.080 Now, the tradition, as I understand is there are two 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.920 organizations set up after World War Two. One is the IMF, 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.960 the International Monetary Fund, and one is the World Bank. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:52.040 And there's an. 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:56.800 Unspoken I guess rule or tradition that the IMF. 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.200 Had is picked more or less by Europe. 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.160 And the head of the World Bank is more or 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.120 less picked by the President United States and then ultimately 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.680 approved by their board. But the World Bank and the 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:10.840 IMF you have nothing to do with each other, or 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.640 you kind of work with each other, or there's completely 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:14.440 different purposes. 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.880 I mean, the purposes are different, but when you put 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.480 them together on the ground, if you don't work well together, 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.640 you're not being very helpful to your client country. So 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.920 I believe very deeply that we must be great partners 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.359 in the ground. I mean, the challenges in the world systems, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.599 David are too big for people to create silos and 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.720 try and solve them by themselves. So two plus two 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.080 is equal to five in this case. So what the 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.080 IMA focuses on is macro and obviously foreign exchange and 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.200 the flow of funds and financing in markets and credit 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.320 default swaps of countries and things that we understand. What 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.679 we try and do is actually developing. Vi'r truly a bank, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.920 so we give longer term money. Our loans are anywhere 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:54.760 from twenty to fifty years in length. 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.120 Fifty year loans. That's a long loan. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.640 So the IBRD after I came, I got a boat 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.160 to through fifty year loans for things. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:03.360 Like one of those fifty year loans. 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.520 I like thin get one of absolutely, although you'll have 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:06.480 to be around to enjoy it. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.400 The fifty alan was designed to cater to things that 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:14.440 you you know, if you think about a country trying 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:18.240 to invest in its healthcare or in its education and 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.280 skilling systems to create the right kind of people for 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.920 the future of the jobs they're going to create. It's 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.280 very difficult to think of that as a payback in 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:27.320 ten and twenty years. 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:31.520 So many of your predecessors have said that the bureaucracy 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:35.120 in the World Bank is unbelievable, and as a result 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.159 they often reorganize the World Bank, and every new president 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.039 World Bank reorganizes. Are you reorganizing or you just accept 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:43.920 what it is and just dealing with other things. 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.159 I mean, my view is very simple. The institution grew 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.080 in a certain way with these five different pieces. That 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.799 creates its own silos, and that's fine. I don't believe 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.320 in driving a car by looking in the rear view mirror. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.560 I'm focused on the front. To me in the front. 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.760 If you're going to create jobs with those three pillars 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.440 I spoke of, you have to work together. You have 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.800 to have one country plan, which is coosynchronous. You have 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:11.840 to have one direction, which is I'm going to do 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.200 these jobs. You have to one ability to work on 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:16.400 the ground with your client. If you're going to get 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.600 the client, we talk about public private partnerships. If the 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.160 client needs a public private partnership, it needs to come 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:24.200 to three parts of the bank to get their loan 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.320 and go through three project management systems, and three due 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:30.480 diligence systems and three environmental and safety scare go. I 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:32.400 whan they will go crazy. If they had so many 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.280 people to deal with us, they wouldn't be in the 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.120 condition they're in. So we have to turn from You 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:40.440 can call it bureaucracy, you can call it processes and 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.960 systems built by years of experience. 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:45.880 That's yesterday. I've just focused on tomorrow now. 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.760 Historically, at least in the last couple of years, the 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:54.200 World Bank has been focused a bit on climate change. Today, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.120 the zeitgeist in Washington is not as favorable for that phrase. Perhaps, 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.760 So how has the World Bank adapted to that change? 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:02.640 Good question. 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.680 So what I've done over the last few months, not 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:07.880 just now from the election but earlier, is to go 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.280 to people in the Hill and now people in the 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:13.760 administration and tell them what's inside that climate change. I 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.480 understand the words can be not what you want, but 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.400 let's talk about what's inside it. First fact, we said 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:22.640 we would try and get to about forty five percent 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.400 of our financing every year going to what qualifies in 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.240 the world is climate financing. When I joined, by the way, 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.080 my successor had done a terrific job and already got 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.800 it past thirty, which was the commitment he had made. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:36.720 But he was past thirty, so I kind of said, 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:38.280 I think we can get to this forty five. But 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.640 what's inside it? Half of it is designed to go 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.560 for what you would call resiliency or adaptation, which is 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.920 heat resistant, varieties of seeds, drip irrigation, a school roof 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.960 painted white, not left wrecked in so it's eight degrees 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.840 schooler inside, you know, a road that doesn't wash away 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.240 in a monsoon, and a school that's hurricane resistant. That's 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.320 actually what our clients want because they're dealing with this. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.800 They want to invest in education, but they don't want 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.960 the school to get washed away. They want to invest 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:08.640 in roads, but they don't want the road to get 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.400 washed away in a rain. They want to invest in agriculture, 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.560 but obviously they don't have the same amount of water 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.920 to use. So this is all Frankly, we should have 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.800 this in large parts of the develop ald too. That's 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.160 one part of it. The other half, which we're trying 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.360 to do is what you would call mitigation. Five percent 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.160 of that twenty two and a half percent of that 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:32.079 half is what goes to energy. Every Spring and October meeting. 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.599 I get demonstrations outside the bank with my portrait on 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.400 an oil barrele calling me the fossil fuel guy, which 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.880 is interesting because of that five percent, one percent goes 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:46.160 to natural gas and financing for it, four percent goes 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:49.280 to renewables, but the other seventeen and a half percent 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.680 is to do what build a rail corridor in Africa 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.839 called Lobito, So instead of transporting goods by truck, you're 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.719 doing it by rail, which is ecologically more friendly. When 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.959 you go the Amtrak here, you hear them telling you 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.800 how much you saved versus the flight you could have taken. 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.000 Same idea. So once you explained this to folks, you. 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.080 Get a very different understanding of what we're actually trying 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.160 to do with climate and even an energy. We're financing 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:16.520 all of the above, if you know what I mean. 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.880 I'm the one thing we don't do is school financing, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.480 which we stopped years before I joined. But I have 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.120 raised the topic with the board last year in August 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.040 or something about re getting into nuclear because to me, 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.599 small nuclear reactors could be transformative and safe and a 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.640 great way to get to renewable energy. For data centers 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:36.040 in Ai. 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:38.959 Well, the World Bank traditionally was not in favor of 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.040 financing nuclear and you're now changing now. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.840 Actually the World Bank had a specific policy of not financing. 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:45.720 It's the board policies that got passed. 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:46.800 I raised it. 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:48.719 I didn't kind of make too much progress in the 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.440 first meeting because people went off into their camps. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:53.360 But the good news is the board. 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:55.200 Has come together and said we're willing to discuss. They 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:57.760 told me then come back by June next year with 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.559 a thoughtful policy that lays out everything from gas to nuclear, 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.839 to geothermal, to hydro to solar and win and help 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.400 us understand the context of energy in the context of 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:12.439 the country. The idea, David, is affordable accessible energy. Just 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.560 like I said, the poverty is a state of mind, 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.800 not just an in a state of being. Electricity is 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.560 a human right. We just need to understand that there's 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.280 six hundred million people in Africa with no elecxity. Six 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:30.400 hundred million, not brownout and blackouts, no elexity. I have 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.400 said we will reach three hundred million of them in 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.839 partnership with the African Development Bank by twenty thirty with affordable, 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.280 accessible elecxity, enough for them to not just get two 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.360 lanterns from a solar cell, but to actually get what 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.240 you call tier three elecxity, which is productive use. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.800 Let's talk about how you get to be the head 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:49.520 of the World Bank. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.920 Presidents of the United States more or less recommend to 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:54.839 the Board of Governors. I guess it is of the 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.000 World Bank. You are appointed by a president United States 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.559 or recommended the board approve you. But what were you 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.439 doing before? I mean, how do you get qualified to 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:03.360 be the head of the World Bank. 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.160 My background, as you know, well we've known each other 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:08.280 some years, is that I am a private sector guy. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.679 I grew up in India and joined NESLE, worked there 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:13.760 for a few years, ended up at PEPSI for a 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.439 couple of years, joined City Bank. I worked there for 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:20.000 fourteen years and ended up running all of Asia during 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.000 the financial crisis, and then quit and became the CEO 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.960 of MasterCard for the next twelve to thirteen years. 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:27.240 So you're minding your own business. 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:29.760 You're running MasterCard, it's doing pretty well, and all of 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.439 a sudden somebody says, how would you like to be 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:32.679 the president of the World Bank? 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:33.640 And you said no. 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.079 It actually didn't work that way. MasterCard says that I 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:38.719 was there those twelve years. You and I have discussed this. 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:40.800 I'm very lucky. I had a great run. I joined 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.040 when a year after the IPO and the firm was 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:47.000 about twenty billion in valuation. I left at three hundred 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.040 and sixty. It's not about five hundred plus. So the 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.280 company is doing well. It's in a great spot and 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.480 well run and scaled over the years. I had told 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.199 my board that I would give them ten years. I 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.600 joined at fifty and at sixty I wanted to think 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:01.280 of something else through my life. We had a great 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:05.120 succession process. I stepped away, became executive chair, and then 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.240 stepped down all together and joined General Atlantic as vice chair, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.520 and became the chair of the Fiat Families holding company XOR, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:15.959 and joined the board of Tamasek. And I had this 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:19.240 portfolio approach to my life until I got cold in 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.560 February of twenty twenty three, and then a few days 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.040 later they announced that I was the candidate. 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:26.559 So now you're the head of the World Bank, and 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.280 the approval process is the President recommends you, and then 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:31.839 the Board of Governors has approved you. 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.160 Yes, So essentially they were ninety days between the recommendation 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.040 and the election, and I spent that period traveling and 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:42.760 visiting almost ninety three country leaders and CSOs and companies, 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:44.920 and then they have to get together in vote. I 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.280 got all the votes other than an abstention from Russia 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:49.040 at that time. 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:51.000 So in the long history of the World Bank, you're 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:52.920 the only person who's been the president came from a 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:53.800 developing country. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:56.960 Is that right? Yeah? 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.120 Probably true. I haven't thought of it that way, but 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.480 that's probably true. Okay, I'm just going back in names. 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.880 Yeah, when you're running MasterCard, you're probably dealing with CEOs 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.839 and in developed markets. Now you're dealing with people in 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.880 not less developed markets, right, And was at a big 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:11.600 culture shock? 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:12.120 No? 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.079 No, So this is that's a great question. 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.880 So even in master can't remember my business was growing 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.360 in all kinds of locations. You end up going to 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.680 developing and developed countries. That's kind of where the future 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.319 and the current are. The difference is what you go 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:27.959 in with as a perspective in whom you meet and 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.240 the circumstances you're dealing with. I've been there almost two years. 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.680 I've made fifty odd trips overseas. I would say make 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.640 a fair number of trips, David to the big shareholders 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.480 in the developed world because making sure that you're aligned 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.160 with them is important. The developed world has had a 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.679 great deal of political change in the last seven or 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.679 eight months, and so my biggest shareholders, the governments have 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.760 changed over making sure that you can help to understand 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.439 what they're looking for and you answer what they think 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.800 you could be doing. It's kind of important in this job. 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.600 You're dealing with very different challenges. But at the end 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.000 of the day, at the end of the day, what 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.400 I'm trying to do is to get the institution to 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:10.240 focus in the developing countries on young people and their future. 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.240 What is the problem with young people in their futures 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:13.360 that you're trying to address. 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.560 One point two billion young people in the emerging markets 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.520 are coming through the pipe in terms of a demographic bulge, 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:24.840 and they will be ready for a job in their 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.400 age profile in the coming twelve to fifteen years. Most 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.080 people think of this over the history of development. When 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:34.280 you get this kind of a demographic bulge, they call 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.680 it a demographic dividend, and that is true. If these 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.920 people get clean air, clean water, education, health care, and 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.840 they're growing up, skilling and once they're grown, they should 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.440 get a chance to get a job, either at a 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.840 small firm or a big firm, or an entrepreneur or something. 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:55.040 Because if that doesn't happen, these young people now are 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.040 without hope and without optimism. 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:57.640 And without earnings. 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.880 If our business is to eliminate power, you cannot eliminate 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.680 poverty just by building a school or a bridge or 0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:09.040 an airport. That's important. Their inputs the output of eliminating poverty. 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.280 The single best way to do it is earning jobs. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:14.840 You know, a friend of mine once told me that 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.320 poverty is both a state of mind and a state 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.840 of being, and a job eliminates both those aspects, gives 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:23.600 you dignity and gives you earning. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:29.760 And I'm just very convinced. I'm just very. 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:34.160 Convinced that this young population can be the driver of 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.040 growth for all our Western companies and our children and 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.040 our grandchildren if we get them productive employment with the 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.200 dignity that that brings. 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.160 The gap between the developed market youth and the undeveloped 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:49.600 market now called maybe the Global South by some is 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.840 getting bigger, not smaller. And they also don't have access 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.040 to the internet as much as maybe people in developed 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:57.160 markets do, so how are. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:58.320 You trying to bridge this gap? 0:15:58.560 --> 0:15:59.080 Great question. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:03.080 So I mean, look, you know, opportunities are not everywhere, 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:05.680 but talent is. The problem is the past has been 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:07.880 that you kind of move. That's why talent moves to 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.440 find its opportunity. What we're trying to do here is 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.680 to change that equation a little bit. What we've looked 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.040 at in the theory of creating jobs in a country 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:17.640 or development is there are three things that need to happen. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.760 The first one is you need to have the enabling infrastructure, 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.400 whether it's bridges, roads, airport, schools, healthcare, eleccity, digital connections 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.240 that you know that thing. Then you need to have 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:34.680 the right regulatory policies land labor, bankruptcy law, anti corruption, 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.960 some concept of what elecxity will costing get paid that 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:41.040 you will get paid back, laws in the system, right 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.160 kind of governance. That's the second pillar. The third pillar 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.720 is to allow the private sector is basically creates jobs. 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:49.800 Government doesn't create jobs. Government is the enabler of the 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.560 private sector to do so. Right, from small businesses and 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.880 small farmers all the way to companies that we are 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.360 active with. You've got to get those three pillars in place. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.720 That's what I'm working on. IBID and I are my 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.240 two public sector arms that work on that infrastructure part. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:06.520 We have what's called the knowledge bank, which to me 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:08.720 is even more important than the money bank. 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.399 How do you compare the satisfaction you're getting out of 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:17.320 doing this compared to MasterCard or General Atlantic or PEPSI 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:19.560 are just more satisfying or you. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.240 Know, there's a time and life for everything. 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:24.000 When I look back from where I am today, even 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.960 though it's hard work and it's different from what I thought, 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.960 I am so privileged to have this opportunity. I want 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.840 to be able to look my grandchildren in the eye 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:33.480 and said. 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.120 I tried, you haven't any grandchildren yet? Three three, okay. 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:38.960 And they're not interested in the World Bank that much. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.119 They're interested in the World Bank because I'm there. 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.320 They're not interested in the World Bank person That, by 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.840 the way, is one of the interesting issues I believe 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:47.480 that I want to start up programmers having in the 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.360 middle of designing is to get people from the donor countries, 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:53.640 young people like our children and grandchildren who are going 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.960 through the time between an undergrad and a postcrad and 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:58.680 give them a chance to come work with us for 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:01.560 a couple of years country where we're doing real work. 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.119 Let them get exposure to what the Bank really is, 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.000 let them see what life in a Zimbabwe or a 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.920 Congo or a Vietnam and the kind of work we're 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:11.840 doing there, and let them come back with a better 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.560 appreciation of why the World Bank is important for them. 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.399 At the World Bank today, as you go forward, how 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:18.639 would you measure your success? 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:19.560 What is your standard? 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.040 I want to be called the ultimate plumber. 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:25.040 I fix the plumbing of the World Bank, because you 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.359 can keep building a new house on top of plumbing 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:29.560 that's not working, and as we all know in our 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:33.080 respective homes, that's a recipe for disaster. If you fix 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:35.840 it the right way, beautiful houses get built and stay 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:38.479 a long time. And I think the Bank is at 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:42.040 a juncture when fixing the plumbing is really important. Whether 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.760 it is the speed, whether it is the partnership with 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:48.480 other multilateral banks, because together one plus one is equal 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.520 to three, whether it is the partnership with the private sector, 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:55.200 which I'm cultivating very carefully. I just believe there isn't 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.560 enough money in the MDB and government. 0:18:58.280 --> 0:18:58.960 Worlds to do it. 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:01.600 You need the privates to be a part of that solution, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.359