1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: I think women are constantly battling with stereotypes about their age, 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: the motherhood penalty. So there's so much that they are 3 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: up against. And when they finally get there, we asked 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: them to speak on a panel, we ask them to 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: mentor we hold them up to such a high standard 6 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: on top of them just doing their job that they 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: are now teetering at this very um tall precipice. And 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: we wonder why women get burned out. We wonder why 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: they're leaving the workforce. I think we all know, and 10 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: yet we're not doing enough to support women and to 11 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: really give them strength when they get there. Welcome to 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: Calling Bullshit, the podcast about purpose washing, the gap between 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: what companies say they stand for and what they actually do, 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: and what they would need to change to practice what 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: they preach. I'm your host, Time Montague, and I've spent 16 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: over a decade helping companies define what they stand for, 17 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: their purpose and then help them to use that purpose 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: to drive transformation throughout their business. In this special positive 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: case study, we're headed to Toronto with the leaders of 20 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: an extraordinary three year old startup called Chief. I'm going 21 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: to interview co founders Caroline Childers and Lindsay Kaplan on 22 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: the main stage at the Collision conference where they're going 23 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: to tell us how they're pursuing Chief's purpose to change 24 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: the face of leadership. When you close your eyes and 25 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: picture of CEO, who do you see? Who I see? 26 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: Is this girl I knew in high school who started 27 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: this like shoe company. And then there's like the faceless 28 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: corporate man in the suit too. But like it's a 29 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: bit of vote of course. Like back in the day 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: was like a man um but now I think it's 31 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: very diverse, getting a lot more diverse. I wouldn't say 32 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: like a male or female. It's a picture, but the 33 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: first thing that comes to mind is a man. I 34 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: see a guy in a suit. Yeah, hot guy in 35 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: a suit. It does feel like to some extent there's 36 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: kind of like an ivory tower, you know, there's like 37 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,799 Speaker 1: an in club, and then that produces the same kind 38 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: of people. I think that the people that are in 39 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: power are pretty homogeneous. It's true, corporate America is homogeneous. 40 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: In there were more men named James serving as Fortune 41 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 1: five CEOs than all the female Fortune five CEOs combined. 42 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: Last year, the number of women on the list came 43 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: to a pathetic forty one and in its entire history, 44 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: only four female CEOs have been black. But what's even crazier, 45 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: I mean to me at least, is that we now 46 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: know that diversity at the top leads to better business results. 47 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: Because of this, things are finally beginning to change. For example, 48 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: Goldwyn Sacks won't take a company public unless the leadership 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: team meets their new diversity criteria. But change is painfully slow. 50 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: When it comes to leadership, women still face pernicious stereotypes. 51 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: For instance, they're more likely to be seen as consensus builders, 52 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: not as aggressive decision makers, so even when they are 53 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: promoted to CEO, it's often when a company is in crisis, 54 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: which of course increases the pressure on them to perform 55 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: and decreases their chances of success. This phenomenon, known as 56 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: the glass cliff, means women typically stay in power for 57 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: shorter periods of time than their male counterparts, and when 58 00:03:55,480 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: they leave, they're often succeeded by you guessed it, white men. Clearly, 59 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: we need more women in power and more support for 60 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: them when they get there. To solve this problem, Caroline 61 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: Childers and Lindsay Kaplan founded Chief, a private network designed 62 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: to give women the tools they need to strengthen their leadership, 63 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: magnify their influence, and pave the way to bring others 64 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: with them. Chief helps their members to hone their leadership 65 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: skills while also fostering community. Within just three years, Chief 66 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: has grown to serve more than ten thousand women, and 67 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: it's attracted speakers like A. Mall Clooney and Michelle Obama. 68 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: With meeting spaces in three cities, evaluation of a billion 69 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: dollars and plans for expansion, Chief is on course to 70 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: truly live out their mission and change the face of leadership. 71 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: All of our positive episodes focus on industry disruptors, but 72 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: as an organization looking to disrupt every industry, I knew 73 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: the Chief co founders would be amazing guests. We met 74 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: up at Collision, a big tech conference in Toronto where 75 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: thirty five thousand attendees learn from the most successful entrepreneurs 76 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: in the world. Caroline Lindsay and I recorded two conversations there. First, 77 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 1: we spoke on the Collision main stage about how Chief 78 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: supports driven women in their climb to the top and 79 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: helps keep them there once they arrive. Then we hopped 80 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: over to the Collision podcast booth to go deeper on 81 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: the why. Here's how it all went down. First, I 82 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: want to welcome you both to Collision and welcome to 83 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: calling bullshit. Thanks for having us. It's all bullshit. Yeah yeah. So, 84 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: as you know, on this podcast, we focus on purpose 85 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: led organizations, some of whom have some issues, but we 86 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: also since we like to light candles instead of just 87 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: curse the darkness, we want to focus on purpose led 88 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: businesses that are really getting it right as well. And 89 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: obviously you fall into the latter category. The two of 90 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: you are absolutely crushing it. So, but I wanted to 91 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: just start out by getting into a little bit of background. 92 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: What is the history of Chief? How did the two 93 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: of you meet? What made you decide to start this business? Yeah? Well, 94 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: I think the irony is that Lindsay and I first 95 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: met at a women's networking event. Um, and it wasn't 96 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: the best one. It was terrible. And we've all been 97 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 1: to these networking events with like amount of cheese on 98 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: the side and warm white wine and named tags that 99 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: are placed in awkward positions. And Caroline and I saw 100 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: each other and enrolled our eyes and it was cynicism 101 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: at first glance. It's cynicism. That brought us together. But 102 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: we often say, you know, if a bad networking event 103 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: could actually bring together to co founders, and I imagine 104 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: what a really powerful, well intentioned network can do. Uh. 105 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: And so as I started to think about the idea 106 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: of Chief, UH, Lindsay was one of my first calls 107 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: to start to talk about it as my co founder, 108 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: and I think for us, the idea of Chief came 109 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: from a very personal place of we were both getting 110 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: more senior in our careers. We're spending all of our 111 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: time managing teams, mentoring people, and actually never felt like 112 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: we had resources for ourselves anymore. And that was our 113 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: inspiration to go and art an organization of Chief, to 114 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: build the most powerful network of women and really focus 115 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: on senior executive women as our as our first step, right, 116 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: And so how do you articulate the mission a Chief? Well, 117 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: our mission is to change the face of leadership. It's 118 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: really simple, and yet we have a really big job 119 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: in front of us. At the current rate of change, 120 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: it's going to take over two hundred years for women 121 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: to reach parity in the workplace, and so we need 122 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: to make that change now. And it starts with powerful 123 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: women coming together and creating a ripple effect in their 124 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: organizations and in their communities as well. I love that. 125 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: And you know, purpose led businesses tend to be disruptors. 126 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: I just love to hear you talk a little bit 127 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: about the dominant belief system that you are trying to disrupt. Yeah, 128 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's interesting because in some ways 129 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: it's disruption, but other ways it's building the status quo 130 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: that has allowed certain types of people to find success 131 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: where others haven't in just building that same ecosystem for 132 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: different demographics. Um, And I think we all know that, Uh, 133 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: A big part of what allows for success and allows 134 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,559 Speaker 1: for new opportunity is who you know and those networks 135 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: that you build. So I think for us it was 136 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: really important to create a similar type of ecosystem and 137 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: network that I think has been in place in many 138 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: ways for certain demographics that just haven't been in there 139 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: in that in that same shape and form for others. Right. Yeah, 140 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: I mean some of the doing my homework for this, 141 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: some of the statistics about women in sea level positions 142 00:09:52,320 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: are shocking. Right, less than eight percent of Fortune CEO 143 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: are female. Of board seats globally are occupied by women, 144 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: And the thing about this to me? Is that makes 145 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: it so crazy? Is I've also seen suggestions. I was 146 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: reading a McKinsey report that says business outcomes are better 147 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: in companies where there is diverse and an often female leadership. 148 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: So it's it's almost like the patriarchy is cutting off 149 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: its own nose despite its face. You know, if you like, 150 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: I just don't. It's it seems crazy to me. So, 151 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I would assume vcs here in the audience. 152 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: I hope, I hope you are listening to this. You 153 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: will get better outcomes if you fund diverse companies. So 154 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: I'd love to hear if either of you have experienced 155 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: any of the the issues that you're trying to address 156 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: through CHIEF personally in your careers. Yeah. I mean, I 157 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: think for me, the UM the real focus on this 158 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: area and the drive to start something like Chief was 159 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: as I started to be in those rooms where decisions 160 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: were being made and recognizing that it was just different conversations, UM, 161 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: and it was more affecting my team than me because 162 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: I didn't hear the conversations about myself, But as I've 163 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: heard the conversations being had about people on my team 164 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: and different ways of evaluating people different ways of even 165 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 1: just thinking about problems and not taking like the holistic 166 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: point of view of recognizing that a business solution that 167 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: might be great for certain populations aren't great for all populations. 168 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: And so I think it was in those moments where 169 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: you were finally in that room and you saw how 170 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: it was playing out differently for such different populations, was 171 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 1: and it's why we wanted to start with senior executive 172 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: women to just get more of them into that room 173 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: and make sure that more of those perspectives were being 174 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: shared in those rooms. And the ripple effect that that 175 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: could have across so many different organizations. I love that. 176 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: So I want to pivot to just talking about the business. 177 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: I want to understand how the business actually works. So 178 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: how how does one become a member of chief? So 179 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: we are a vetted network, So we, like I said, 180 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: focus on senior executives, which the easiest way to describe 181 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: what that is is VP level and above UM. And 182 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: it's really important for us to make sure we stay 183 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: vetted because otherwise you end up falling into that de 184 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: fecto mentor. And we want to make sure that there 185 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,079 Speaker 1: is truly a peer organization of people that understand your 186 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: context and responsibility UM, and it's an annual membership model UM. 187 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: I think the amazing part of all of this is 188 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: that companies have recognized some of what you were saying 189 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: before that there needs to be more representation, They need 190 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: to be investing in their amazing women talent. And so 191 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 1: about seventy of our membership is actually funded by the companies. 192 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: In the same way that they would send you to 193 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: a conference UM or get you an executive coach, they 194 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: will fund a membership into Chief UM and there's a 195 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: whole suite of services that you get as part of 196 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: that membership. The probably dominant thing that we talk about 197 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: is what we call Core UM. It's called Core for 198 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: a reason. It's a it's a peer group where we 199 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: break down the entire community into groups of ten that 200 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: meat on a monthly basis. There's an executive coach in 201 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: the room, and it's just this amazing opportunity for you 202 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: to work through your biggest professional and personal challenges. And 203 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: the two of you are in some of these groups, Yeah, 204 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: you actually participate as absolutely. Shout out to my Core group. 205 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: We had a great session last week. And look, it's 206 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: really important for women to find other women who are 207 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: in these senior levels and have time in a confidential 208 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: space to talk about things that are pressing for executives. Right, 209 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: executive problems always end up being people problems, and it's 210 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: really important to find a professional board of directors to 211 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: go through that, to give diversity of thought, opinion advice 212 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: to help you not only become a better leader, but 213 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: to stay motivated and to stay a leader and not 214 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: burn out. So one of the things that I have 215 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: noticed folks here have probably noticed as well, is that 216 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: you've been out raising some money. I think I've got 217 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: these numbers right. You've raised a hundred and forty million 218 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: dollars and your latest valuation is one point one billion dollars. Yes, 219 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: it's a lot of powerful women. But how does how 220 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: does that first? How does that feel? That's got to 221 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: feel pretty good? Yeah, I mean, I think for us, 222 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: we start a chief about three years ago. Um, and 223 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: if you think back to where we were three years ago, 224 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: we started early two thousand nineteen. Then you had the pandemic. 225 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: There was just so many shifting things that have happened. 226 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: And I think for us, this milestone is less about 227 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: like evaluation and it's less about uh, you know the 228 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: amount that we raise, and I think it's actually more 229 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: for us, just a really amazing moment to be able 230 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: to celebrate a lot of pivots that had to happen 231 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: over this period of time and the idea that investing 232 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: in women is good is a good investment decision um 233 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: and so we're really proud of that and our members 234 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: are really proud of it, and it's just been an 235 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: exciting time. So how are you using that money? Yeah, 236 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I think for us first and foremost, as always, 237 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: we have fifteen thousand active members right now, we have 238 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: sixty thousand members that are on our potential members I 239 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: should say that are on a wait list. So for us, 240 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: we're just really wanting to make sure that we continue 241 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: to invest in the experience and build more for all 242 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: of our all of our members. But we're because we're 243 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: in such early days of what we can build and 244 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: who we can build for. So we're talking before about 245 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: the fact that you know, our mission is to change 246 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: the face of leadership. We were really thoughtful about where 247 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: we wanted to start with senior executive women, but to 248 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: really change the face of leadership, I think there's so 249 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: much more that we can do under that umbrella, right, 250 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: and you have physical locations as well. We do. We 251 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: always say we're a community that happens to have a space, 252 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: and so we have spaces in New York, l A, Chicago, 253 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: and one on the way in San Francisco. But really 254 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: what makes Chief special is the network is those core 255 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: groups that as we know, we're not really reliant on 256 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: spaces anymore, and so they're wonderful amenities. They're great for 257 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: getting our members together. But if you're joining, you're joining 258 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: to grow that network and to be a part of 259 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: the community. And do you have plans to expand outside 260 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: the US. So we just launched nationally in January, so 261 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: we're still in early days of just being two days 262 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: in Canada, and I think that's on the road map now. 263 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: So thank you Toronto. So we will we are working 264 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: on expansion. I will say this. When we did raise 265 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: the money, we knew it was really important for us 266 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: to think about how we grow and continue to stay diverse, 267 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: and so we committed to doubling our grant program to 268 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: making sure that we are welcoming in women from all 269 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: different areas, from different roles, functions, um as as underfunded 270 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 1: women founders, and we're also committing a million dollars annually 271 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: to make sure that we can invest in nonprofits charities 272 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: that are aligned with our mission of changing the face 273 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,959 Speaker 1: of leadership. One of the things that I have learned 274 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:22,199 Speaker 1: from other CEOs of of purpose led businesses, they have 275 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 1: pointed out to me that who you raise money from 276 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: is actually quite important. In other words, having investors who 277 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: understand your mission, are aligned with it, and I'm really 278 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: supportive of what you're trying to get done. Has that 279 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: been part of your journey as well? Yes, Um, I 280 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 1: don't know that we would have gone on the path 281 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: that we did in the way of raising capital that 282 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: we did if we didn't find those right partners. And um, 283 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: it hasn't always been easy, like We've gotten plenty and 284 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: many uh knows as we've gone through the process, and 285 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: you definitely have those moments of you know, do you 286 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: need to pivot the business model? Do you need to 287 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: take capital from somebody who might not be as mission aligned? 288 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: And I think for us it was really important that 289 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: we stayed true to that because we never would have 290 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: been able to stay as true to our mission as 291 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: we have been able to if we didn't have the 292 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: investors that we do UM, and truly feel grateful every day. 293 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: You know, we are a company that feels it's really 294 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: important to make statements on you know, things that are 295 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: happening in the world. Our investors actually reach out to 296 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: us and say, like, we're proud of you. There's not 297 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: that debate in the boardroom, and I think that that 298 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: is a really key part for us of being able 299 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: to do what we do well. What advice would you 300 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 1: have for any female entrepreneurs here at Collision, Yeah, well, 301 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm really inspired by the concept of time travel. As 302 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: I said, it's going to take two hundred years for 303 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: us to reach parity, and I don't want to wait 304 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: that law. So when I think about this as somebody 305 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: that's driving impact, I always think about what I can 306 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: do during my day to cut out the bullshit which 307 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: is your favorite thing in your podcast, UM, and to 308 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: really make sure day to day I am thinking about 309 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: what's going to have the most critical impact on the business, 310 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: on the mission, and on really changing the shape of 311 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: the future. Yeah. I mean the other thing I would 312 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: just say, and especially for people that are here, it's 313 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: great that you're here. It's really important to build a network. UM. 314 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: Our earliest investors were people that we knew, UM, that 315 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: knew us, believed in us, and we're like, yeah, this 316 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: business feels like it'll it'll be great, But I believe 317 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: in you, Caroline and Lindsay UM. And so I do 318 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: think it's really important to constantly be investing in your 319 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 1: network and in your relationships UM, because that's ultimately I 320 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,199 Speaker 1: think what what helped us out of the gate was 321 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: people that believed in us. So you also produce an 322 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: excellent podcast at Chief. I listened to every episode. Thank 323 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: you for plugging the New Rules of Business by Chief, 324 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: a wonderful podcast you can download now. Russ and I 325 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: am going to steal a trick from you because there's 326 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: a question that you ask everything you know your guests 327 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: in every episode, which is what is the best piece 328 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: of business advice you've ever gotten? I will go first, Um, 329 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: we got We've gotten so many great answers to this 330 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: on the podcast. I feel like a lot of pressure, 331 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: um of of coming up with something like new and novel, 332 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: But I actually think to me, and it's something that 333 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: I have to tell myself daily, is don't let perfection 334 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: get in the way of progress. And particularly for a 335 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: mission based business that um, you know, you want to 336 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: hold yourself to a higher level of and do all 337 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: of the right things, and the reality is you're not 338 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 1: going to be perfect, you're not going to get it right, 339 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: you're not going to have the right position on everything, 340 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 1: and you might be a little late done something. And 341 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: I think it's important for us to give ourselves some 342 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: forgiveness on that and to give each other some forgiveness well. 343 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: And on the topic of networking, as we're at this 344 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: amazing conference, I met somebody at dinner last night who 345 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: said it was important to increase the surface area of serendivity, 346 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: and so I think meeting people, forming relationships, getting to 347 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: know different people from different walks of life, it's really 348 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: important in business. Even if it doesn't make sense short term, 349 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: it could really pay off long term. You literally said 350 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: last night at the dinner, oh, I'm going to steal that, 351 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: and you already have. I did so. Thank you to 352 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: the kind person who sat next to me at dinner. Fantastic, 353 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: all right, Caroline Childers, Lindsay Kaplan, thank you give it 354 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: up for chief please. After we exited the stage, we 355 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: spoke in depth about what it means to be co 356 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: founders with shared values, what women are up against, and 357 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: why every company is inherently political. That conversation right after 358 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: the break. Okay, all right off the stage and into 359 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: the booth. The bo that was a ton of fun. 360 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks so much for inviting us. So now 361 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: that we're in the booth, we can get at the realty. 362 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: Um So I want to just do a little more 363 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: about your background, let people get to know you a 364 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: little bit better. One of the first questions I had 365 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: was have you always known that you wanted to be entrepreneurs? Actually, 366 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: probably the opposite. And I actually really love telling this 367 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 1: story because I think so often you hear the founder 368 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: stories that are like I knew from early age and 369 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,719 Speaker 1: I was, I was doing my lemonade stand in my 370 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: paper route, and I was an entrepreneur even early days. 371 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: And I think for me, so my family had a 372 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: family business, a travel agency, and so like the family 373 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: business was hard, and I remember seeing that and thinking like, wow, 374 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,719 Speaker 1: this is like such a hard journey, and therefore almost 375 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: thinking I'm going the opposite way. I'm going to like 376 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: a big company with yeah, yeah, And I started my 377 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: career that way, and it wasn't until after business school 378 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: that I pivoted over into startups and I was like, oh, 379 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: this is where I meant to be. And it was 380 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,439 Speaker 1: only then that I started to think, I don't just 381 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: want to work for somebody else, like I want to 382 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: build something myself. And it wasn't until the idea of 383 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: chief came around that you could get to a place 384 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: where I can dedicate my life to this type of business, 385 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: this type of mission. Um. But it was very late 386 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: for me in my career or later in my career 387 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: that I really started to think about startups in general 388 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: and being the entrepreneur my self. How about you, Lincy. 389 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: You know, I don't think I grew up thinking about business. 390 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: I wanted to be an artist, so I wanted to 391 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: be a painter, that I wanted to be a writer, um, 392 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 1: And I think business became something that I just needed 393 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: to do to pay the bills. And it became really 394 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: clear really early to me when I started that I 395 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: was a little anti authority, that I didn't like paint 396 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: what to do and reflecting back, I also come from 397 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: a family of entrepreneurs. My grandfather owned a business, my 398 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: father owns a business, my mom's a real estate broker 399 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: that works on her own and so it makes a 400 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: lot of sense that I found my way towards entrepreneurship 401 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: as an anti authority kid of parents who wanted to 402 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: do their own thing. Cool. Well, you know, entrepreneurs are 403 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: rule breakers too in their own way. I certainly resonate 404 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: with that. You and I share a more creative background, 405 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: and I I get that completely. So, Caroline, you have 406 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 1: been an athlete for big parts of your life, and 407 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: I wondered if you could talk about how you think 408 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: that translates into being a CEO. If it does. Yeah, absolutely, 409 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: um So, yes, I grew up playing sports. I almost 410 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: every weekend was traveling, and I a basketball team my 411 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 1: road in college. Um So, you know, the idea of 412 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: team and that collaboration was just such an important part 413 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 1: of what I think I brought into you know, any 414 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: type of business, any type of company, and it's something 415 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: that I brought, you know, as I was starting Chief 416 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: and the type of culture that I wanted to build. 417 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: But I think the interesting thing about so much of 418 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: you know, me and my leadership and it being defined 419 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: in sports, is it actually made it somewhat hard as 420 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: Chief got bigger because you're used to like a team 421 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: that is, you know, a team of twenty, and you're like, 422 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: you're actually like in the in the trenches together, and 423 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: then you get to a bigger company You're like, Okay, 424 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: now this is a different type of leadership. This is 425 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: a different way of leading an organization from the coach 426 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: to the commissioner. Yeah, I guess something like that. I 427 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: don't really know if I like that analogy of who 428 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: I am, but but there's something really meaningful in that 429 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: transition that you have to go through that the sports 430 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: analogy only took me so far, and like the entrepreneurial journey, 431 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: and there was a definitely evolution that needed to happen 432 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: post that, right. Yeah, And I was also looking at 433 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: some amazing statistics. You're not the only one, like something 434 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: like ent of Fortune female CEOs played team sports and 435 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: a big percentage of them, somewhere in the high fifties 436 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: made it all the way to college, and the others 437 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: all wanted to be artists and writers. Right. Thanks to 438 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: the shoutout Caroline, so lindsay as co founders, I'm interested 439 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,199 Speaker 1: in how the two of you decide to divide up 440 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: leadership duties in the company. Your title is Chief Brand Officers. Yeah. Yeah, 441 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: and it's it's a really clear division. I think at first, 442 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: when it was just the two of us, it was 443 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 1: a little sloppier because it was two people attacking a project. UM. 444 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: And as chief got bigger, as the team grew, it 445 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: became really obvious Caroline is the CEO, incredible operator, just 446 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: a brilliant business leader. UM. And I love to be 447 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: the storyteller. I love to kind of dig into the content, 448 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: the creative and it became really clear that my domain 449 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: would and should be around my superpower. So I own brand, marketing, partnerships, editorial, 450 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: all of our events, and Caroline owns well just about everything. Right. Well, 451 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: I think it's actually an important evolution that a lot 452 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: of startups have to go through, which is we were 453 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: co founders and it was you know, a we are founders, 454 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: co founder lead. But now we're a senior leadership team. UM, 455 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: and there's you know that that broader, amazing suite of 456 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: people that have come on this journey with us. Now 457 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: that the divide and conquer is not just about like 458 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: how do we both divide and conquer? But how do 459 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: we as an executive team and a leadership team really 460 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: divide and conquer. And how how big is the chief team? 461 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: Now we're over two hundred people staff. That's a lot 462 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 1: a lot of growth, and a lot of it virtually. Um. 463 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: So we were probably around thirty when you know, the 464 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: pandemic hit and we went into a bit of a 465 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: hiring freeze as most people did, of just trying to 466 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: figure out what the world was going to be. And 467 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: we actually saw some really great growth over that period 468 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: of time. We started to hire again, but all of 469 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: it virtually. Um. Even if we were hiring them in 470 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: New York, you were still hiring them virtually because nobody 471 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: was in person. And so it's been really important for 472 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: us to just figure out how do we not only 473 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: tackle the challenge of maintaining a culture as you get bigger, 474 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: but maintaining a culture as you get bigger while in 475 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: a brand new way of working. Yeah, well it's interesting also, 476 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, as I was listening to you talk about 477 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: the shape of chiefs business, and I can't think of 478 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: a better pair to run a business life chief because 479 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: part of it is business and operations, but a huge 480 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: part of it is also just the experience and in 481 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 1: a lot of ways, you are also a content company, 482 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: which is really interesting. I hadn't really thought about that. Well, 483 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: you know, when Caroline and I were pitching early investors, 484 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: and you know this conversation very well because it's stuck 485 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: with us. We heard so many nose It was just 486 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: no after no after no, like great idea, I love 487 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: you too, and it's a no from us UM and 488 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: want to invest Star said, I love what you do, 489 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: but guys like I invest in great products, right, Like I, 490 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: I invest in a company that makes one thing and 491 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: sells it and they do an incredible job. You're doing 492 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: five things right. You're doing these peer groups, you're building 493 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: an entire digital social network, you're putting together events, you 494 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: have spaces like this is a company of five to 495 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: seven depending on how you slice it services, and so 496 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: it's it's a complicated business, but when you're offering a 497 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 1: membership to these incredible women, we did want to make 498 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: sure we gave her a really incredible, impactful experience that 499 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: covered everything that she was piecemealing together. So we wanted 500 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: to take the place of the coach of the conference, 501 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: um of the content and really make sure that she 502 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: had an a list holistic way to become supported and 503 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: become a better leader. Staying with this theme of the 504 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: two of you for just a minute, I've gleaned from 505 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: listening to your podcast and also just hanging out with 506 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: you for the past you know, seventy two hours, which 507 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: has been super fun, that the two of you have 508 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: very different personalities. We do this. I want to grow 509 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: it back to you, be like, how would you describe 510 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: those two different personalities. I'm not even gonna touch that. Um, 511 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: Dr Jekyl and Lady Hyde. You're very different, but it 512 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: obviously works incredibly well. So is Do you have any 513 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: relationship advice for other co founders, you know, because partnerships 514 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: are hard. I have a co founder. Occasionally we fight 515 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: like a cat and a dog. Like starting a business 516 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: is stressful and difficult, and the two of you have 517 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: you're very different, but your chemistry is is amazing. Yeah. Well, 518 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the thing that we realize very 519 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: quickly and why we therefore wanted to do this together 520 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: other is that we are very different. Our skills are 521 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: very different, our personalities are very different, but our values 522 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: are not different. Um. And we talked a lot about 523 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 1: what we wanted chief to be from a you know 524 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: vision of the business, but also a vision of the culture, 525 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: and we just it was really important for us that 526 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: we were very aligned on that um upfront, because that 527 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: that's really hard to have a disagreement about. It's pretty 528 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: easy to have a disagreement about, like I think we 529 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: should do this different design or that different design, and 530 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: like those are just so they're they're surface surface, surface 531 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: level decision making. Sometimes we may disagree on but the 532 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: values that Caroline and I share are so similar, and 533 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: so when people don't know us well, we've gotten the 534 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: like on the on the scale between Lindsay and Carol 535 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: and I'm right between you two, and we laugh about 536 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: that because we're we feel like we're actually very close 537 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: together on that scale. We're not really sure what that 538 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: scale is because we often, and this is so reassuring, 539 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: we often come to the same conclusion and we get 540 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 1: there in such a different way, and when you hear 541 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: somebody else it's almost like we're doing the math problem differently. Yeah, 542 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:18,399 Speaker 1: Caroline actually doesn't show my work show write a deck, 543 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: and I'm like, my gut says this um, And we 544 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: get there almost always to the same place, and it 545 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: is that much more um compelling to say, I feel 546 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: so good about this answer because I not only trust you, 547 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: but I trust that you went there a different way 548 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: than I did. Yeah, And maybe I'm just thinking, like 549 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: maybe that's an advantage of being a purpose led business 550 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: in a way, right is, If you're just making a 551 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: widget or a product and you don't have some larger 552 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: purpose that you're pursuing, like, it would be easier for 553 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: founders to get off track and disagree and fall apart, 554 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: whereas the fact that you've signed up to like change 555 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: the world right like that keeps you aligned in a way. 556 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: I think it's actually harder for our team than it 557 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: is for us because I care about certain things deeply impassionately, 558 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: and she cares about things deeply and passionately that I 559 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: might not as much because we both think about things differently, 560 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 1: and they have to actually like bridge that gap of 561 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,759 Speaker 1: like two people who like deeply care and will come 562 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: at something from a very different place, but they have 563 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: to kind of satisfy both. That would be a that 564 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: was a hard thing early days for some of our 565 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,240 Speaker 1: team to to overcome. Now I think that's um less 566 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: of a I need to manage to co founders and again, 567 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: it's that broader senior leadership team. But I actually think 568 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 1: it's something that for us was really important that we 569 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: recognize could create a struggle for the team of of 570 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: navigating two very different ways of needing to present an idea, 571 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: like I need it. I need to get to a 572 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: place from a very different perspectives. She needs a deck. 573 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: She needs a deck. Everybody she needs a deck. She 574 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: needs the charts. I need an analogy, right, I need 575 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 1: to get excited. But to be fair, like I love 576 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 1: data and you love a story. So again, I think sometimes, um, 577 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: people fall into thinking we are more stereotypically different and 578 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: caricatures of ourselves than we are. That's great, Okay, I 579 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 1: don't really even know how to ask this question, so 580 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 1: we'll see. That's it. Nailed it. So we started to 581 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about this on stage, but I 582 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: wanted to dig more into my metaphor is the obstacle 583 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,920 Speaker 1: course that women need to run through in order to 584 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: make it into leadership positions in business. I just love 585 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: to hear your observations about those obstacles and how Chief 586 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: is trying to help women take those on. Um. Yeah, 587 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's so many different aspects 588 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: of the challenge. There's the external factors of as you're 589 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: getting more senior, you're likely starting a family, you're likely 590 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: starting to take on the responsibilities of child's care, and 591 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,600 Speaker 1: we know that that burden so much more goes to 592 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: women inside the office. There's um both the unconscious bias 593 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: that you're battling, but it's also your your own. I 594 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: think there's so many studies that talk about how women 595 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: need to have a hundred percent of the qualifications of 596 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: a job before they apply for it, where men are like, good, 597 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: fifty to sixty king that one a shot, he's got potential. 598 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 1: I had a job once I know how to do this. Yeah, 599 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 1: So it's not just you know, the factors that other 600 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 1: people are putting upon them, but it's also how they 601 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 1: are conditioned and other things things. And I think one 602 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: of the most important parts of CHIEF is that you 603 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: have two things that come out of an amazing network 604 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: of other women. One is it normalizes things for you 605 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 1: of just like I don't have to have all the answers, um, 606 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: I don't have to have the perfect work life balance 607 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: that so many people talk about and nobody has. And 608 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: it also really helps to motivate people to take risks. 609 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the most powerful and fun 610 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: parts of cores. You walk in and you talk about, 611 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: like what is it that you really want to do 612 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: and be, and you hold each other accountable to that, 613 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: and so now you do maybe apply for that thing 614 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: or go for that stretch assignment that maybe you're at 615 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: fifty percent of instead of a percent of. And so 616 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,479 Speaker 1: I think it's all of those small things that having 617 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 1: a network like CHIEF can really bring about. Yeah, yeah, 618 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: I mean the expression it gets lonely at the top up, 619 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,839 Speaker 1: it gets lonelier a lot faster when you're a woman, 620 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: and a woman, to Caroline's point, is battling not just 621 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: everything happening in her life at that time, but just 622 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: the unconscious bias that comes with being a woman. I mean, 623 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: We're at a conference and I'm worried about what I'm 624 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,280 Speaker 1: wearing on stage. I don't give a ship about my clothes. 625 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 1: I don't care about shoes, and yet here I am 626 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: feeling like I need my hair and makeup done. I'm 627 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: going to get judged on my shoes, which by who, 628 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think women are constantly battling with 629 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: stereotypes about their age, the motherhood penalty. So there's so 630 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: much that they are up against, and when they finally 631 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: get there, we ask them to speak on a panel, 632 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: we ask them to mentor we hold them up to 633 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: such a high standard on top of them just doing 634 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 1: their job that they are now teetering at this very 635 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: tall precipice. And we wonder why women get burned out. 636 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: We wonder why they're leaving the workforce. I think we 637 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: all know, and yet we're not doing enough to support 638 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: women and to really give them strength when they get there. Yeah, agreed. Um. Yeah. 639 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: So another area that's related to this that I wanted 640 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: to sort of dig into a bit is an area 641 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:26,319 Speaker 1: that you cover in several different dimensions in your podcast. Um, 642 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: and it's in the past, and I think still right. 643 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,360 Speaker 1: There are a different set of rules for women in 644 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: business than for men. There are different ways that women 645 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: are judged. To the point that you just made lindsay 646 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,320 Speaker 1: in the workplace, can you talk about some of those rules, 647 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 1: how they're different for men and women. In the podcast, 648 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: for instance, you talk about some of the issues around 649 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: bringing your whole self to work, some of the issues 650 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: around like humor in the workplace and the different different 651 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: sets as a as a self proclaimed funny person. You know, 652 00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: men are Men are rewarded for their jokes. Women are 653 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,879 Speaker 1: taken less seriously. Um Women in the workplace are often 654 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: expected to pick up the birthday cards, bringing the cupcakes, 655 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 1: take care of a lot of the the thankless work 656 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 1: that is so important in the office around culture building. 657 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,839 Speaker 1: What does that mean, We'll let the ladies handle it, right, 658 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,800 Speaker 1: So we know that women are constantly being judged around 659 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: being apathetic, showing up being nice, right, Like, we just 660 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: interviewed somebody who was like, fuck, the word nice. Nice 661 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: gives us nothing. Nice can actually be toxic. And yet 662 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: as women, we feel the obligation to be liked because 663 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: if a woman isn't liked, she's known as exactly right, 664 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,919 Speaker 1: so it is I've seen that happen a million times. 665 00:41:55,960 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: But if you're too nice, yeah, then you push over 666 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,919 Speaker 1: your doormat exactly So we put women on this tight 667 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,880 Speaker 1: rope of be funny but not too funny, be empathetic, 668 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,399 Speaker 1: not too empathetic. And then we also don't talk enough 669 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,839 Speaker 1: about the intersection of women who are you know, from 670 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 1: underrepresented minorities in the workplace and everything they have to 671 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: juggle on top of that to be this model worker. 672 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: So again, like it's it's such a narrow tight rope 673 00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 1: that we've put women on um and it's why we 674 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: built Chief to make sure that there is a supportive 675 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,839 Speaker 1: community where we can normalize these problems and make sure 676 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: that we talk about it and we try to fix 677 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,359 Speaker 1: the systemic issues that are facing women and executive women 678 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: in the workplace. Step one, be aware that there's a problem. 679 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:50,879 Speaker 1: Step two applied to Chief. My co founder Rosary says 680 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: all the time, like, it's not important to be liked 681 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,800 Speaker 1: for for women, it's important to be respected. But I 682 00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: don't know if I fully agree with that. It's really 683 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: hard as a woman to be respected without being somewhat liked, right, 684 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: Like it's it sounds good in theory, but if you're 685 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 1: not liked, you're kind of implying your disliked. And to 686 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,800 Speaker 1: be disliked as a woman is really difficult. And I 687 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: can name some women who are disliked and have been 688 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,440 Speaker 1: taken down because of it. So your reputation becomes everything, 689 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 1: and so it's easier to say, it's harder to do. 690 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: So let's pivot and just talk about purpose and purpose 691 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,880 Speaker 1: sied businesses. So a lot of the purpose led leaders 692 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,440 Speaker 1: that I've talked to measure impact, you know, beyond kind 693 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: of the traditional R o I financial measures. What do 694 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,680 Speaker 1: you measure at chief? Like how do you decide whether 695 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: you're succeeding or not? I mean, I I assume you 696 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,640 Speaker 1: measure financial metrics as well, but are there things beyond that? Yeah? 697 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,839 Speaker 1: I mean our mission is to drive more women into 698 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: positions of leadership and keep them there, which I think 699 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: creates a very clear definition of what does success look like. 700 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:14,320 Speaker 1: And that is what is the representation of women people 701 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,320 Speaker 1: of color in leadership? And unfortunately, we are right on 702 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,600 Speaker 1: the heels of a pandemic where it is disproportionately affected 703 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: women dropping out of the workplace. And so for us 704 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: that means that our role and our job just got bigger, 705 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,799 Speaker 1: because even before the pandemic, it was going to take 706 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 1: two hundred years before women reached the same level of 707 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,000 Speaker 1: representation in senior leadership UM. And so for us, that 708 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,359 Speaker 1: is like the macro like what do we measure? How 709 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: do we how do we continue to strive to do 710 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: something that will create a ripple effect that will help 711 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: to change some of that there's a lot of things 712 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:57,040 Speaker 1: that we measure internally with like the members that we 713 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,719 Speaker 1: do have of you know, what new opportunities have they 714 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 1: got in UM, and also things that are just a 715 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 1: little bit softer in measurement of just you know, how 716 00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: confident are they feeling in the leadership positions that they're 717 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: in and how supportive has your network expanded? Are you 718 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: making more money? Right? Yeah? Is there more opportunity? Right? 719 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,400 Speaker 1: Like there's there's the softer questions that I think are 720 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: really leading into into austin knowing we're driving impact and 721 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: I think that the more difficult question for us is 722 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: the macro change we're seeing when we're up against the pandemic, 723 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 1: when we're up against a recession. So you know, two 724 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: steps forward, one step back. Yes. So a lot of 725 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: the companies that we have featured on on this podcast 726 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,520 Speaker 1: are also certified B corps. You're not a certified B 727 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: are you? We're not? Have you ever thought about UM? 728 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,360 Speaker 1: I did very early days of of founding Chief, And 729 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the things that are really exciting 730 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 1: about being a certified B Corps is that UM in 731 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:02,880 Speaker 1: order to become that, you have to be measuring some 732 00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: of those other things, and you know you're you're broader 733 00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,600 Speaker 1: um impact. And I remember looking at it and being 734 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: like that, And I will say candidly like that almost 735 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 1: feels like table stakes for us, Like that is what 736 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: we are. So it might be something that we decided 737 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: to do down the line, but um, I think for us, 738 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 1: we wanted to just make sure that we were most 739 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: focused on the mission and the impact that we were 740 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: trying to drive as our central mission. Right, Yeah, we've 741 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,840 Speaker 1: we've thought about it also, and we are not a 742 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: certified b although I think we are going to head 743 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,279 Speaker 1: down that road. So let's see, we'll let you know 744 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: what it's like. So we've talked about this before. Also, 745 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: I really believe that being a purpose led business is 746 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,320 Speaker 1: a journey and no no company is perfect, nor should 747 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,800 Speaker 1: we expect them to be. But taking on a social 748 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: justice issue as you have with Chief in some ways 749 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 1: can make you a target. Do you ever feel additional 750 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,879 Speaker 1: pressure because your purpose lad and because you have such 751 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: an inspiring but weighty mission, I would say yes. I 752 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 1: think the hard part is when you have something like 753 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:24,240 Speaker 1: really focus on women in business, there are many different 754 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:30,080 Speaker 1: social issues that all factor into that, and so I 755 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,280 Speaker 1: think it's actually really most important and like most pressure 756 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,880 Speaker 1: filled of where do you draw the line of what 757 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: you feel like you should be weighing into versus not 758 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,719 Speaker 1: um And I think that's honestly where I feel the 759 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: most pressure of wanting to you know, in our our 760 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 1: members are eager for us to to play some of 761 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,600 Speaker 1: those roles, but we're also running a business and we 762 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: have to make sure that we are focused on the 763 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,399 Speaker 1: mission that that we have built chief for and can't 764 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: weigh into everything and do all of that at once. 765 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: And so I think that to me is one of 766 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 1: the biggest pressures. Less so about like what do you 767 00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,560 Speaker 1: specifically say about this one thing, but it's more of 768 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,960 Speaker 1: how do you how do you make that determination of 769 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: what you want to stand for? I think also the 770 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,080 Speaker 1: pressure to weigh in on everything. It's not only difficult 771 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,040 Speaker 1: to running a business, but it's difficult to focus. And 772 00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: so we saw an outpouring of support around the rumor 773 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: that Roe v. Wade will be overturned. Right, it was 774 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: in the news. Every organization is making a statement, Um, 775 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:40,399 Speaker 1: we signed the don't ban Equality coalition, and yet two 776 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: weeks later there's a shooting, Right, and you don't hear 777 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,919 Speaker 1: anything about Roe v. Wade, right, and so like, it's 778 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: really difficult to stay on top of what you believe 779 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: in and the causes that you absolutely want to support 780 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 1: when the news cycle is changing, public opinion is onto 781 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 1: something else. And so it's really morton for us to 782 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 1: make sure we're clear about what we stand for, that 783 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: we commit to what we stand for, because if not, 784 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,800 Speaker 1: it starts to become performative, right, Like, it's not actually 785 00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,800 Speaker 1: healthy for a company to be taking a stand writing 786 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,960 Speaker 1: a statement every three days about the new topic. We 787 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: really want to make sure we're doubling down on what 788 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,320 Speaker 1: it is we stand for, what we ourselves can commit to, 789 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: and going all the way, so that we're not just 790 00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:31,799 Speaker 1: writing a statement, posting it on LinkedIn and moving on, right, 791 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 1: And we want to make sure our members and our 792 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: broader Chief community understand what we stand for and know 793 00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,279 Speaker 1: that when we take that stand, we are doing it 794 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,400 Speaker 1: and we are doing it all the way and it 795 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 1: is part of who we are and it is baked 796 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: into the DNA of Chief. Yeah. Yeah, just to build 797 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,239 Speaker 1: on that on this podcast, Obviously, one of our big 798 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:55,400 Speaker 1: themes is this issue of we call it purpose watching. 799 00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:59,000 Speaker 1: In other words, saying that your purpose letter consciously capitalist 800 00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,640 Speaker 1: enterprise but not really meaning it. And lindsay, I've heard 801 00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 1: you say that you think that a lot of brands 802 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:08,440 Speaker 1: just need to knock off in quotes, knock off their 803 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,400 Speaker 1: performative bullshit, which I loved. So it sounds like you 804 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: agree right that it's it's a problem in the world. 805 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,959 Speaker 1: I think a lot of companies are torn. I think 806 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,279 Speaker 1: that they want to say something, they don't want to 807 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,400 Speaker 1: go all the way, and they end up kind of 808 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:28,640 Speaker 1: like mincing their words and staying in the middle. If 809 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: you want to say something, say it and do it right. 810 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: Like at this point, I think consumers are really smart 811 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,960 Speaker 1: and for the most part, especially younger consumers, really want 812 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,239 Speaker 1: to align themselves with brands and companies that follow the 813 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,440 Speaker 1: same set of values. And so if you're going to 814 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,640 Speaker 1: do it, do it right and do better. Because there's 815 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: so many companies out there now that I think I 816 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,800 Speaker 1: want to put out the statement, want to get the 817 00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,520 Speaker 1: like box checked. Particularly d e I Right, we're gonna 818 00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: hire a d e I person. We're gonna we're gonna 819 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,160 Speaker 1: make a claim that we're going to do something. And again, 820 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,080 Speaker 1: you don't have to boil the ocean. You don't have to, 821 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 1: you know, make a statement about everything, but at least, 822 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,279 Speaker 1: if you're going to do it, pick a topic, pick 823 00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:20,239 Speaker 1: an issue, commit to it and do better. Yeah, yeah, 824 00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: I love that, And um, the statistics are incredible. It's 825 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: like n of young people expect companies to take a 826 00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,960 Speaker 1: position now and they expect c e O s to 827 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,239 Speaker 1: be out talking about the position that the company has. Yeah, 828 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,880 Speaker 1: and you know a lot of companies say we're not political. 829 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 1: Well guess what. If you're giving your employees healthcare, if 830 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:48,839 Speaker 1: you're making decisions about their time off when they become 831 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,320 Speaker 1: new parents, you're making political decisions, whether you want to 832 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:57,000 Speaker 1: or not. Right, that's a fantastic point. We've forced companies 833 00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 1: to be political, and so you have to be educated 834 00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,680 Speaker 1: on some of these broader issues and some of these 835 00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,120 Speaker 1: social issues. You have to be to lead a company 836 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,759 Speaker 1: because you're making those decisions. You're deciding, you know, where 837 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,040 Speaker 1: your company is incorporated and how you're paying taxes. So 838 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: you're political no matter what. Totally. So you know, this 839 00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:23,000 Speaker 1: idea of of being purpose led has been talked a 840 00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:28,399 Speaker 1: lot in the investing community as well. Sometimes it's called 841 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,279 Speaker 1: E S G investing. Sometimes it's called impact investing. Does 842 00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:36,680 Speaker 1: that ever come up with your investors? I know we 843 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:39,800 Speaker 1: talked about on stage that you you do try to 844 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,279 Speaker 1: find values aligned investors, But have you ever gotten any 845 00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:48,640 Speaker 1: pushback from potential investors because of your purpose? In other words, 846 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 1: is there any friction there for you? I mean, if 847 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,520 Speaker 1: they had it, they didn't explicitly say it because they 848 00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:01,239 Speaker 1: knew that the mouth day, because very much could be 849 00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:04,279 Speaker 1: behind you know, some people's questions of is this an 850 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:08,040 Speaker 1: investment that I want to make um while not explicitly 851 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,960 Speaker 1: said to us, I think the bigger thing for for 852 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,960 Speaker 1: us and someone of how I think about it is 853 00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 1: I love that there's this attention on you know, E 854 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,800 Speaker 1: s G investing and impact investing or investing in women 855 00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:25,919 Speaker 1: led businesses and investing in businesses that are being built 856 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,240 Speaker 1: by people of color. Like, I love that it's getting attention. 857 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:32,399 Speaker 1: I just don't want it to be siloed that it's 858 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,920 Speaker 1: only one type of investor that should be investing in 859 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,759 Speaker 1: that type of thing, or only women investors that are 860 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,080 Speaker 1: investing in other women. I actually just I hope that 861 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:44,040 Speaker 1: like the broader investment community starts to look at and say, like, 862 00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:49,360 Speaker 1: these are just good investments. Yeah, it's just called investing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 863 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:54,399 Speaker 1: Well it's a process, right. I believe we will get there, 864 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,479 Speaker 1: I really I do. It'll take take maybe some time. 865 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,320 Speaker 1: So do you think do either of you think that 866 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 1: being leaders of purpose led businesses is I guess more 867 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,799 Speaker 1: difficult than being a leader of a traditional company. I mean, 868 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,719 Speaker 1: I think leadership, no matter what position you're in, is hard. Um. 869 00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,560 Speaker 1: I think it gets harder every day as expectations of 870 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:21,080 Speaker 1: leaders making statements, making stands, needing to take the role 871 00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,560 Speaker 1: that traditionally had been held by government because people are 872 00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,840 Speaker 1: losing faith in that institution. I think that there's a 873 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,200 Speaker 1: really hard challenge across the board for all leaders. I 874 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,399 Speaker 1: think the aspect of it that sometimes can feel more 875 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: challenging and being a purpose led business is that sometimes 876 00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:48,080 Speaker 1: the acceptance of error is less tolerated. That when you 877 00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,200 Speaker 1: are making statements and trying to do good, when you 878 00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:58,200 Speaker 1: inevitably make a misstep. She's looking at me when you 879 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:04,080 Speaker 1: lin you Lindsay kaplan inevitably missed up. And we had 880 00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,520 Speaker 1: this conversation to get really personal. I called Caroline a 881 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,719 Speaker 1: few weeks ago really upset because I just felt this 882 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,960 Speaker 1: pressure on our calm side on on our events team 883 00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: to make sure that we are delivering a rapid response 884 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,600 Speaker 1: when shit happens in the world. And I felt like 885 00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,480 Speaker 1: I missed something and I wasn't sure and I I 886 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,319 Speaker 1: called you so upset and felt like I was going 887 00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:35,000 Speaker 1: to be disappointing members and if not today, then when 888 00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:39,080 Speaker 1: will that happen? And Caroline said to me, it will happen. 889 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,279 Speaker 1: It's not an If it happens, you will fuck up, 890 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,800 Speaker 1: and it's okay, and I will support you because you 891 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,960 Speaker 1: will funk up. We will funk up, you said, we 892 00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,800 Speaker 1: not you. She met you. She said, we will. We 893 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,600 Speaker 1: will fun up, and we will get through that. And 894 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,920 Speaker 1: let's just make sure that we acknowledge we're human. We're 895 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:03,480 Speaker 1: not perfect. We're trying our best, and we hope that 896 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,840 Speaker 1: our ore again, our broader community understands our values and 897 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: our mission and knows that we're human and will be 898 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,520 Speaker 1: there to forgive us when inevitably we sunk up. And 899 00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 1: thank you for Thank you for being so wonderful to me, Carolyn, 900 00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,799 Speaker 1: because no, it was. It's it feels like a lot 901 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:25,240 Speaker 1: of pressure. On one hand, I think leading a purpose 902 00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:29,520 Speaker 1: built company, it's a rallying cry. I think our members 903 00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,840 Speaker 1: believe in our mission. It's why they joined our team members, right, Like, 904 00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,800 Speaker 1: on one hand, there is so much love for that 905 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,120 Speaker 1: mission and passion and it brings good people. It's a 906 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,759 Speaker 1: magnet for great people. But on the other hand, it 907 00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: can be really polarizing. UM, And there's a lot of cushion. 908 00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 1: The bar is high, and I will fall off that bar. First, 909 00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:54,759 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to the bar. Then I'm gonna fall 910 00:56:54,800 --> 00:57:00,520 Speaker 1: off the bar. Yeah. So beyond the the two of you, 911 00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,520 Speaker 1: because you obviously totally have each other's backs, are there 912 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,759 Speaker 1: other female leaders or founders that you particularly admire and 913 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,439 Speaker 1: drawing inspiration from. Yeah, I mean, I think so many 914 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:15,160 Speaker 1: members that we have that are a part of Chief. 915 00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:19,800 Speaker 1: It is the amazing aspect of building this business is 916 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,760 Speaker 1: that we also get to tap into just amazing community 917 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:28,360 Speaker 1: of aspiring women leaders. And we joke all the time. 918 00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,200 Speaker 1: We're like when we do a podcast or we're you know, 919 00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,320 Speaker 1: on the stage and collision and we're like, it's it's 920 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:35,680 Speaker 1: kind of funny that it's the two of us, and 921 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,880 Speaker 1: we've got some members that Chief that are like a 922 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,240 Speaker 1: lot more impressive than both of us. UM. And So 923 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,000 Speaker 1: I think it's just this like inherently built into the 924 00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,520 Speaker 1: DNA of what we get to do to be able 925 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 1: to tap into a community of fifteen thousand women that 926 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,960 Speaker 1: are really really inspiring, um, which is amazing. You know, 927 00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,000 Speaker 1: We've brought in so many people that have been speakers 928 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,240 Speaker 1: that have just been like so inspired r Michelle Obama, 929 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:05,680 Speaker 1: Percella Burns, like mal Cleany. It just has been like 930 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:10,520 Speaker 1: an amazing you get incredible speaker. It's so yeah, and 931 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,200 Speaker 1: and I literally am like, this is the business we're running. 932 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,920 Speaker 1: But at the same time, like it's a master class 933 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,880 Speaker 1: every single day for us of you know what good 934 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,520 Speaker 1: leadership looks like to be able to be in that ecosystem. 935 00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:31,560 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well well put okay. UM. So to wrap 936 00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 1: this up in the spirit of it's a journey and 937 00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:42,120 Speaker 1: nobody is perfect, we have a tool on this podcast 938 00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:47,440 Speaker 1: called the VS Scale. The idea is to rate companies 939 00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,560 Speaker 1: on the gap between word indeed, I e. How closely 940 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,160 Speaker 1: are you following your stated purpose? And our scale goes 941 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:59,760 Speaker 1: from zero to a hungard zero being the best, zero bs, 942 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:03,280 Speaker 1: a hundred being the worst. Glad to clarified, I would 943 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,240 Speaker 1: have got total b s. Yeah. Yeah, it's easy to 944 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,840 Speaker 1: flip that around. So hundreds of the worst total b s, 945 00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,280 Speaker 1: so the worst purpose washers out there get high scores 946 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,880 Speaker 1: on our scale. I want to ask you both to 947 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:20,440 Speaker 1: rate Chief on that scale as it exists today and 948 00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:25,480 Speaker 1: give yourselves a score. I feel like we should newlywed 949 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:30,040 Speaker 1: game this and like yeah, yeah, um well, in the 950 00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,400 Speaker 1: spirit of women in confidence, I'm giving us a zero 951 00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:39,160 Speaker 1: because we have been so intentional about our goal from 952 00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:43,480 Speaker 1: day one. So I am a no bullshit person. One 953 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:47,080 Speaker 1: of our brand values is no bullshit. Well we changed 954 00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,760 Speaker 1: it to we had to our Chief people officer was like, 955 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,160 Speaker 1: we shouldn't have a curse in our an explicit word 956 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,560 Speaker 1: in our values. Oh is that right? So wait, what 957 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,240 Speaker 1: is it now? Real? It used to be noble ship 958 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,600 Speaker 1: and we change the value in the word. Yeah, I 959 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,840 Speaker 1: got you. Well, you know you're like like yeah, I 960 01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,320 Speaker 1: like no bullshit. You know, maybe maybe you two, maybe 961 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:15,080 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of like, um, you know, maybe 962 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,920 Speaker 1: we're not perfect, but I think we're pretty. We're pretty 963 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:23,200 Speaker 1: no bullshit, very little bullshit. Like there's there's like, you know, 964 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,720 Speaker 1: we're a company, so it's almost like are there no nuts? 965 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe this gets made in a nut 966 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,480 Speaker 1: factory where there's traces of nuts, maybe there's traces of bullshit. Um, 967 01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,160 Speaker 1: but I think our intention is no bullshit. Yeah, i'd 968 01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,840 Speaker 1: create us a little bit harder, but I actually it 969 01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,320 Speaker 1: depends on like exactly what we're measuring this. You can 970 01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,800 Speaker 1: tell I'm a data person, like I immediately going to 971 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:48,080 Speaker 1: like being specific about what we are measuring on this scale. Honestly, 972 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,680 Speaker 1: I think the reason why I give us, you know, 973 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 1: probably like a i'd say thirty, let me give us 974 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,600 Speaker 1: a thirty is honestly because it is honestly because we're 975 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,960 Speaker 1: three years old and like, okay, we're like we always 976 01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:05,320 Speaker 1: want to be at a place of doing more than 977 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,080 Speaker 1: we're saying. And I think that is a fundamental part 978 01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:12,000 Speaker 1: of like being a no bullshit company. And I honestly 979 01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,440 Speaker 1: think that in the last few years, with everything that 980 01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:18,600 Speaker 1: has happened, sometimes you have to because it's all that 981 01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,200 Speaker 1: you're able to do in that moment, say a little 982 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:23,680 Speaker 1: bit more than you're able to do at that moment. 983 01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,040 Speaker 1: And I think that given that we're three years old, 984 01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:29,720 Speaker 1: that so much is happening in this world, that things 985 01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,760 Speaker 1: are changing every day, that I am at a place 986 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,120 Speaker 1: of like there's so much more I want us to do. 987 01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,600 Speaker 1: There's so much more I know we can do, and 988 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,240 Speaker 1: that's not really a bullshit scale, which is why I'm like, 989 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,920 Speaker 1: what exactly are we measuring? But I want I just 990 01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:44,640 Speaker 1: know that we can do so much more that I 991 01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,320 Speaker 1: can't give us. I can't, at my heart give us 992 01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:50,440 Speaker 1: a perfect score. I love both of those scores. Honestly, 993 01:01:51,160 --> 01:01:59,040 Speaker 1: it's for us to do better. So I think we 994 01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:04,280 Speaker 1: can do more. But are we currently bullshitting? No? I 995 01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,120 Speaker 1: don't think we'll trace there's trace amounts of bullshit everywhere. 996 01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,560 Speaker 1: You know, we could snap a bread of filter on 997 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,680 Speaker 1: what we do and get down to zero. I think 998 01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:19,880 Speaker 1: there's trace amounts of bullshit. Okay, Caroline Lindsay, I absolutely 999 01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,320 Speaker 1: love the work that you were doing in Chief. I 1000 01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,200 Speaker 1: find the two of you to be so inspiring. I 1001 01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:26,920 Speaker 1: want to thank you for being on the show and 1002 01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,080 Speaker 1: thank you for hanging out with us at Collision. Such 1003 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,640 Speaker 1: a good time it has been. Thanks for having us. 1004 01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:41,400 Speaker 1: All Right, folks, it's time for Chief's official BS score. 1005 01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,480 Speaker 1: Caroline and Lindsay gave wildly different numbers based on their 1006 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:50,160 Speaker 1: different interpretations of what the BS score is all about, 1007 01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:55,960 Speaker 1: and honestly, they're both right. Lindsay score of zero shows 1008 01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:59,440 Speaker 1: the purity of their intentions. Chief has been designed from 1009 01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:03,720 Speaker 1: the mound up with their purpose in mind. Nothing they 1010 01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,440 Speaker 1: do takes them away from it. Their purpose and their 1011 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:13,920 Speaker 1: business are inextricably linked. But Caroline is also so on 1012 01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:16,840 Speaker 1: point when she says the Chief is a work in progress. 1013 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:21,200 Speaker 1: Every purpose led business is on a journey. The best 1014 01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,600 Speaker 1: leaders acknowledge their shortcomings and stay laser focused on making 1015 01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,840 Speaker 1: improvements to better meet their goals. Although let's be real, 1016 01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,720 Speaker 1: thirty is a little harsh, I'm going to give Chief 1017 01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,320 Speaker 1: a ten. It's one of the lowest scores we've given 1018 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,280 Speaker 1: on the show to date because I truly believe that 1019 01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:45,760 Speaker 1: Lindsay and Caroline's intentions are pure. But as a three 1020 01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:48,760 Speaker 1: year old company, it also gives them a little room 1021 01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:52,320 Speaker 1: for aspiration, room to grow into the impact that they're 1022 01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,439 Speaker 1: trying to make in the world over time. If you're 1023 01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,640 Speaker 1: starting a purpose led business or you're thinking about beginning 1024 01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:02,720 Speaker 1: the jour any of transformation to become one, here are 1025 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:08,680 Speaker 1: three things that you can take away from this episode. One, 1026 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:14,040 Speaker 1: start with a problem that you care about personally. Lindsay 1027 01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:17,120 Speaker 1: and Caroline met at a super lame networking event and 1028 01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,160 Speaker 1: realize that there was something missing and networking, especially for 1029 01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:25,920 Speaker 1: senior female executives. They looked around the world and realized 1030 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,320 Speaker 1: that that lameness was just one part of a whole 1031 01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:34,360 Speaker 1: system that holds female executives back, and chief was born. 1032 01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:44,000 Speaker 1: Choose your problem carefully and remember sometimes the problem chooses you. Two. 1033 01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,360 Speaker 1: Surround yourself with people who share your purpose but not 1034 01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:52,800 Speaker 1: your skill set. Caroline and Lindsay couldn't be more different, 1035 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:57,560 Speaker 1: and that's perfect. A successful purpose led business gets that 1036 01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:01,120 Speaker 1: way because everyone agrees on the problem blum and brings 1037 01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:06,920 Speaker 1: their own unique tools to solve it. And three, just 1038 01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,000 Speaker 1: because your purpose, lad, does not mean you have to 1039 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,080 Speaker 1: have an opinion on every social or environmental issue that 1040 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:17,200 Speaker 1: hits the news. There's an increasing pressure on leaders to 1041 01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,280 Speaker 1: have a point of view. That's a new and very 1042 01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,880 Speaker 1: real part of leading a business today. But having a 1043 01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,880 Speaker 1: point of view on things that have nothing to do 1044 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:29,680 Speaker 1: with your purpose can come off as as Lindsay says, 1045 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:38,680 Speaker 1: performative bullshit. If we change the face of business for 1046 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,520 Speaker 1: you today, subscribe to the Calling Bullshit podcast on the 1047 01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,240 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 1048 01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,840 Speaker 1: to people speaking to your Ears. Thanks to our production 1049 01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:55,240 Speaker 1: team Hannah Beal, Amanda Ginsburg, Andy Kim, D s Moss, 1050 01:05:55,720 --> 01:06:01,000 Speaker 1: Haley Pascalites, Parker Silser, Basil Soaper end Me, John Zulu, 1051 01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:04,160 Speaker 1: and a special thanks to the folks at Collision and 1052 01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,720 Speaker 1: to the entire crew at Chief Calling Bullshit was created 1053 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,080 Speaker 1: by co Collective and it's hosted by me Ti Montague. 1054 01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:16,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. M