1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the MLK Tapes, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: are solely those of the podcast author for individuals participating 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. Listener discretion is advised. 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: Hl Hunt was a Illinois farm boy who came down 7 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: the Mississippi River as a gambler and became the world's 8 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 2: richest man in oil and along the way. He had 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: three families, two of which he started in secret. Well 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: he was still living with and married to his first wife. 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 3: We're talking to author Harry Hurt, whose book Texas Rich 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: is an in depth portrait of hl Hunt, a man 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 3: whose extraordinary fortune came out of the ground, liquid and black. 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 3: Hunt was an unusual person in that he was happy 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 3: to spend his wealth on political goals, but he didn't 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 3: feel the need to spend it on himself. 17 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 2: He drove an old car. He drove himself to work 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: as he posed having a chauffeur. He took his lunch 19 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: to work in a brown paper bag. He didn't adorn 20 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: himself with jewelry and fancy clothes. And that sort of thing. 21 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 3: Beyond those for his families and as many female partners. 22 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: Hunt's passions extended into the social and political fabric around him. 23 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 3: He was against government rules of any kind and government 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 3: aid of any kind. He even opposed private charity. Hunt 25 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: didn't believe in one man, one vote. He thought the 26 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 3: number of votes you cast should be determined by how 27 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 3: much you pay in taxes. He was opposed to the 28 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: United Nations, the War on poverty and social security. He 29 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: didn't like President Kennedy, and he really really didn't like 30 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 3: Martin Luther King. 31 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 4: I call the Union Hall, I says about of life 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 4: and day. Yeah, I said, I thank these people are 33 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 4: planning to kill doctor King. 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 5: The authorities were parade. Oh, we found a gun that 35 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 5: James o'ray bought in Birmingham that killed doctor King. Except 36 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 5: it wasn't the gun that killed doctor King. 37 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: James Lray was a pawn for the official story. 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 3: From My Heart Radio and Tender for TV. 39 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 6: The plan was to get King to the city because 40 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 6: they wanted it handled in Memphis where Daddy and then 41 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 6: could handle it. 42 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 4: And I've lived with it so long that my year, 43 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 4: and they scared for me. 44 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 7: The Lord told me not the word. 45 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 4: I've been wanting to tell it all my life. 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: I'm Bill Clayburgh and this is the MLK tapes. After 47 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: he staked his claim and made his fortune and oil, 48 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: Haroldson Lafayette Hunt moved Dallas, where he took ten acres 49 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 3: overlooking a nearby lake. And for whatever it said about him, 50 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: he built a house that mimicked every detail of the 51 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 3: House of George Washington. 52 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: His house in Dallas was made to look like a 53 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 2: replica of Mount Vernon in Virginia to Washington, the George 54 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 2: Washington Estate. And that is about as lavish as a god. 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 2: And that's not a particularly ornate structure. It looks almost 56 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 2: like a toy house. 57 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 3: And just in case someone didn't recognize it, the place 58 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 3: was called Mount Vernon. And when Hunt and his wife 59 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: Ruth moved in, they were approached by local charities, as 60 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 3: were all the newly wealthy families in Dallas, and. 61 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 7: There were a good number of them. 62 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: The petitioners would usually come away with some easily afforded contribution, 63 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 3: which made everyone feel good as though they had all 64 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 3: done their part, But to their utter shock, Hunt refused 65 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 3: to give. 66 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 7: He didn't believe in it. 67 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,119 Speaker 3: He said, thought it made people week. This cost him 68 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: and Ruth some social standing in Dallas, but he didn't care. 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 3: People should learn to stand up on their own, as 70 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: he had done. 71 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 7: He would say. 72 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 3: Author Harry Hurt found this attitude a touch hypocritical. 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: You know, I think that there are pieces of an 74 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 2: American myth of the rugged individual who pulled himself up 75 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: by his bootstraps. And I don't need help from anybody. 76 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 2: And you shouldn't need help either. And your problem if 77 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: you're struggling financially or in some other ways, because you 78 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 2: don't work hard enough. So it's this kind of puritan 79 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: work ethic sort of stuff. There is embedded in that, 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 2: of course, a great deal of hypocrisy. I mean, for 81 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: one thing, he, like everyone else in the oil business 82 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: in that era, benefited from government tax structures which included 83 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: the oil depletion allowance and intake right off for intangible 84 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: drilling costs, so that you know, he would say, well, 85 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 2: I don't need any help from the government. Well, you 86 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 2: get help from the government. You get big tax breaks 87 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: for the government. 88 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: Considering the wealthy, commanded Hunt led a relatively simple life, 89 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: and in that respect he wasn't a phony. He didn't 90 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: own a yacht or a house on the riviera, or 91 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: even a fancy car. He didn't take vacations. 92 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: I guess he harkened to a simpler time in America 93 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: where you didn't have those kind of luxuries commonly. 94 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 8: And he had this. 95 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 2: Sort of ethos with his third wife of being just 96 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: playing folks, you know, regular people, And so that was 97 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: his sort of ethos. 98 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 3: Hunt wasn't just plain folks when it came to his 99 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 3: opposition to John F. 100 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 7: Kennedy. 101 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: As Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson moved toward their showdown at 102 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 3: the nineteen sixty convention in Los Angeles, Hunt thought to 103 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 3: put his thumb on the scale. At that time, the 104 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 3: largest Protestant church in America was the First Baptist Church 105 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 3: of Dallas, with some twenty five thousand members, including Hunt 106 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 3: and his wife Ruth. The leader of that church was W. A. Criswell, 107 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 3: a man with strident political views often referred to as 108 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 3: the father of the religious right. As a Democratic convention approached, 109 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 3: Griswell gave a rousing sermon where he said that Kennedy 110 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 3: was unfit to be president because he was a Roman Catholic. 111 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 3: Roman Catholicism is not a religion, he said, it's a 112 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: political tyranny. 113 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 7: If John F. 114 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 3: Kennedy is elected, religious liberty will die in America. 115 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 7: Hunt liked this sermon. 116 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 3: So he had it reproduced and sent anonymously to two 117 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: hundred thousand Protestant ministers and community leaders across the country 118 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: with the hope that they would reject Kennedy and tell 119 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 3: their congregations or friends to do the same. As to 120 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 3: its effect, this effort was too late to derail the 121 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: Kennedy campaign, which won the nomination in LA on the 122 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 3: first vote, but it did demonstrate Hunt's willingness to be 123 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: a behind the scenes player in national politics again. 124 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 7: Author Harry Hurt. 125 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: He was for a McCarthys right wing vision of America 126 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 2: in the fifties, and he had radio programs that got 127 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: to be I think on five hundred stations between something 128 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: called Fax Forum and a successor Lifeline that were basically 129 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 2: the four runners of Fox News and Newsmax, except that 130 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: you know they were privately funded by him, and they 131 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 2: were essentially fake news. Now, you can dismiss it on 132 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: one level, but the equal fact of the matter is 133 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: that people bought into it and drank the. 134 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: Kule In Hunt's world and in that of many others 135 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 3: back then, the great satan in the universe was communism, 136 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 3: which had to be fought in every venue. For example, 137 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: if you thought that the United Nations was a good thing, 138 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 3: you were probably a communist, or at least willing to 139 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 3: do their work they had termed for people like you. 140 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 3: You were a fellow traveler, or worse, a pinko Lifeline 141 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 3: gave a daily fifteen minute talk on the evils of communism, 142 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 3: or how certain political figures like Kennedy and King were 143 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 3: bringing the dreaded disease to your very door. This is 144 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,959 Speaker 3: what Hunt himself had to say about it, and you 145 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 3: might notice who he says is most to blame. 146 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 9: The land should be drawn between those who love liberty 147 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 9: and our far freedom and those who are in favor 148 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 9: of communism. And I am quite generally in favor of 149 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 9: anyone that is fighting communism. But the communication media rather 150 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 9: is owned and controlled eighty five percent by the opposition. 151 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 9: The newspapers, radio, TV stations, networks are largely in the hands, 152 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 9: we'll say the enemy. 153 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: As part of his crusade to fight against a press 154 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 3: that was soft on communism, Hunt began what was called 155 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 3: the Youth Freedom Speakers, though it never got much beyond Dallas. 156 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: In its conception, there were to be thousands of young 157 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 3: people all across the nation who, like Paul Revere, would 158 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 3: spread the alarm by giving fifteen minute talks to roadery 159 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 3: clubs groups on the hidden dangers of communism. 160 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 10: Many people in the United States really don't believe that 161 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 10: communism is a serious threat, while these people are in 162 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 10: for a big shock because the Communists have every intention 163 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 10: of doing exactly what they've said they'll do, and they 164 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 10: do not hesitate to use force and violence any time 165 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 10: they think that it will further their calls. 166 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 3: In the nineteen fifties and sixties, the red scare was 167 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: on better Dead than Red, was a right wing slogan 168 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 3: with enough true believers that it might be the acceptable 169 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 3: subject for a debate in a high school civics class. 170 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 3: In the military, there was a vocal faction that wanted 171 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 3: to launch a first strike against the Russians, and Kennedy's 172 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 3: choices not to invade Cuba or to pull back from 173 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 3: Vietnam were not popular with many people, including Hunt, who 174 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: regularly attacked Kennedy as well as King on his Lifeline 175 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 3: radio program. On the fateful morning in November, when the 176 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 3: President and First Lady would parade in an open car 177 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 3: through downtown Dallas, the local radio station KPCN broadcast the 178 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 3: latest from Lifeline, part of which we will read here. 179 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 11: When communism comes to America, you will not be able 180 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 11: to celebrate Independence Day, Memorial Day, or Labor Day. You 181 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 11: would not be able to celebrate Thanksgiving as we know it, 182 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 11: thanking the Lord for his blessings and fruitful harvest. You 183 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 11: would not be able to celebrate any holiday of freedom. 184 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 11: Never again would you be able to go off on 185 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 11: a hunting trip with friends. Private ownership and private use 186 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 11: of firearms would be strictly forbidden. 187 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: Back in the nineteen sixties, Hunt and Lloyd a young 188 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: lawyer named John Currington to be his right hand man 189 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: what might be called a fixer. Today, Currington is still alive, 190 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 3: still an attorney in the state of Texas, and he 191 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 3: is also a rancher who, at age ninety three, still 192 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 3: rides a horse and presides over cattle. And he has 193 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 3: come forward to share with us his memories of things 194 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 3: he witnessed and things he did while in the employ 195 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 3: of H. L. Hunt, and particularly those relating to the 196 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 3: murder of Martin Luther King. Curington was an East Texas 197 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: country boy. He had a quick mind and did well 198 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 3: at SMU, where he got his law degree. He served 199 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 3: in Korea during the war, where he said it was 200 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 3: so cold that the socks froze to his feet. When 201 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 3: Currington got out of the army, he took his first 202 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 3: ever paying job at the Hunt Oil Company, keeping track 203 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: of the oil leases that were presiding over a river 204 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 3: of money. He had been on the job a couple 205 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 3: of years when he received a message that mister Hunt 206 00:12:58,720 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: wanted to see him. 207 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 12: There were several Hunts there in the company, but when 208 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 12: the name mister Hunt was used, you knew it was 209 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 12: h Old Hunt. And although I had worked for a 210 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 12: Hunt Old Company for several years, part of that call 211 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 12: I had never met mister Hunt, never talked to him. 212 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 12: I immediately interpreted that call as some kind of an 213 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 12: office prank. I didn't want to go, but I knew 214 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 12: I had enough sensor Oh I had to go. 215 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 3: So, not being able to imagine anything good coming out 216 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 3: of this occasion, Carrington took the elevator up to the 217 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 3: seventh floor, where Hunt had his office. The first person 218 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 3: he encountered was mister Hunt's secretary. 219 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 12: She just motioned me on end, and Miss Hunt didn't 220 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 12: introduce himself or ask about my health or what I 221 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 12: thought about, no political race. He just stated that he 222 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 12: had been told that I had a reputation of getting 223 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 12: some things done, and he wanted me to start working 224 00:13:58,679 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 12: directly for him. 225 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 7: And that was that. 226 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 3: Curington was instantly moved to the seventh floor of the 227 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 3: Mercantile Bank building, where he began to work for H. L. 228 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 7: Hunt. 229 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 8: I was given an office immediately next to his, and 230 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 8: the door was normally open between the two of us, 231 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 8: and if he wasn't open, he had a buzzer on 232 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 8: his desk that he could push, and I could answer 233 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 8: that buzzer within a matter of seconds. 234 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: Turington was a quick learner, and he sensed that Hunt 235 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 3: was unlike any person he had ever met. 236 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 7: Right away. 237 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 3: He understood that he was not to speak unless spoken to. 238 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 3: He was not to offer an uninvited thought, ever, and 239 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 3: that included saying good morning. In Hunt's way of thinking, 240 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 3: such a greeting was a waste of time. 241 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 12: I never exchanged any pleasant trees with mister Hunt. I 242 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 12: never asked him out his hells. I never said good morning. 243 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 12: I'd never asked him if he'd enjoyed the football game. 244 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 12: I had no personal contact relationship with him, and I 245 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 12: think Miss Hunt appreciated that he had no interest in 246 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 12: my background or what I was doing. His only interest 247 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 12: was what he wanted to do and how he wanted 248 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 12: it done. 249 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 3: And Hunt had a lot of things he wanted. His 250 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 3: mind was full of them, and many of those ideas 251 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 3: came to him at odd hours. 252 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 12: As far as I know, he only slept for or 253 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 12: four hours a night. He was up late at night, 254 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 12: up early of the morning, and he had a forever 255 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 12: idea that I might have or you might have. Miss 256 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 12: Hunt would have a hundred ideas on any different subject. 257 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 12: I had standard orders. I had to call him at 258 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 12: six o'clock am every morning and at ten o'clock pm 259 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 12: every night, and even if we'd talked at nine thirty 260 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 12: pm at night, I'd still call him at ten pm. 261 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 3: Given those responsibilities, one might say that Carrington had a 262 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 3: sixteen hour a day job, but it was worse than that. 263 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 3: He was required to have a telephone next to his bed, 264 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 3: and most nights Hunt would call at some point with 265 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: something that was on his mind. 266 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 12: I don't ever recall not receiving a telephone call from 267 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 12: miss Hunt during the wee hours of the night, and 268 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 12: I'm talking anywhere from eight thirty, nine, thirty ten one, 269 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 12: or two o'clock the next morning there. But he never 270 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 12: made any come in as thank you for answering the phone. 271 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 12: I hope I didn't work you up, but I have 272 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 12: a question. He went directly into a question, and some 273 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 12: of his questions just defied the interpretation of what a 274 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 12: reasonable prudent man might know. 275 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: As mister Hunt's right hand, Currington would manage a wide 276 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 3: variety of things. He handled squabbles between the members of 277 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 3: Hunt's three families. He kept track of all the deals 278 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 3: on the five hundred radio stations that carried Hunt's Lifeline program. 279 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: He might carry large amounts of cash from one city 280 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 3: to another, seventy thousand dollars or two hundred thousand, or 281 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 3: even a million, and then hand the money to some 282 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 3: person for a purpose he wasn't privy to. As diverse 283 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,879 Speaker 3: and strange as they were, these stories rang true to me. 284 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 3: But there is one piece of Currington's account that I 285 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: absolutely don't believe. Carrington says, that whenever he and mister 286 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 3: Hunt flew in a commercial airplane, which they did from 287 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,919 Speaker 3: time to time, they always flew in coach, never in 288 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 3: first class. Hunt wouldn't spring for the extra dollars. Remember, 289 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: Hunt is the richest man in America and he flies 290 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 3: in coach. Carrington swears it is true. H. L. Hunt 291 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 3: didn't drink and didn't smoke. He stayed away from white flour, 292 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 3: white bread, and white sugar. And the bread he did 293 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: eat had to come from a certain county in Texas 294 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 3: which had some mineral in the soil that Hunt felt 295 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 3: was important. But Hunt had one huge bad habit. He 296 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 3: loved to gambell. He loved to bet on horses and 297 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 3: football games, and most of all, he loved to play 298 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 3: in high stakes poker games. He would fly across the 299 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: country with John Kirrrington and Coach. 300 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 7: We were asked to believe so that. 301 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: Hunt could play in a game of poker where hundreds 302 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 3: of thousands of dollars would change hands. 303 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,199 Speaker 12: Mister Hunt and I we normally always stay that the 304 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 12: waldolph A story when we were there in New York, 305 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 12: and quite frequently that's where the poker games would occur. 306 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 3: During the games Carrington would be stationed nearby, and if 307 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 3: Hunt were losing, he would be sent downtown to pick 308 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 3: up more money, like maybe eighty grand, which was a 309 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 3: lot of money back then, And this happened often enough 310 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 3: that Carrington got to know the president of the bank. 311 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 12: Miss Hunt had a bank account in New York. I 312 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 12: was called a Handover bank, and if my memory shirts 313 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 12: MC correct, the fellow named Adolph Houser was the president 314 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 12: of it. And over the course of years I became 315 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 12: pretty well acquainted with mister Houser. And when Miss Hunt 316 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 12: was in a big card game, if money was needed, 317 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 12: I would catch a subway from the Waldorfer Story down 318 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 12: to Wall Street, pick up the money, put it in 319 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 12: my pockets, and go back. But I had instruction Miss 320 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 12: Hunt not to take a taxi to pick that money up, 321 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,959 Speaker 12: because taxis rides in New York in were about seventy 322 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 12: five or eighty cents a trip, so I was instructed 323 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 12: to take the subway as it was a little cheaper 324 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 12: mode of transportation. 325 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty three, Hunt and Keirrrington would spend a 326 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: hunk of time in New York. Time that had nothing 327 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 3: to do with poker. It had to do with an 328 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 3: idea that came to Hunt in the middle of the night. 329 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 3: One they had to do with the World's Fair, which 330 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 3: was set to open in New York in the summer 331 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 3: of nineteen sixty four. 332 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 12: For many years we always had a display at State 333 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 12: Ferry there in Dallas for the State of Texas. There 334 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,720 Speaker 12: every year, we had a pretty leverage set up. We 335 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 12: had free drinks for people of cool area chairs. But 336 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 12: he used it primarily to distribute material on his Lifeline program. 337 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 12: So he came up with the idea that if it 338 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 12: worked in Dallas at the State Fair, then it would 339 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 12: work in New York at the New York's Worldfare, but 340 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 12: on a much bigger scale, and it would be used 341 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 12: as a money making venture for amusement rides and concession stands. 342 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 12: Plus it would be a distribution center for his Lifeline 343 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:41,439 Speaker 12: radio program material and his Lifeline TV material. And negotiations 344 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 12: were made and a fellow named Robert Moses. He lets 345 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 12: you know very promptly when meeting him that he was 346 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 12: a top dog and he didn't expect any conversation from 347 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 12: anybody else. 348 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 3: For decades, Robert Moses had been the most powerful man 349 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 3: in the state of New York. He wasn't mayor, he 350 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,399 Speaker 3: wasn't governor. He was the chairman of the Triburial Bridge 351 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 3: and Tunnel Authority, along with a dozen other important positions, 352 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 3: including President of the New York World's Fair. 353 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 7: When it came to building. 354 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 3: Bridges, highways, and parks, Moses had the final say. So 355 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 3: when the richest man in America came to him with 356 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 3: a proposal, he let that man know who was boss. 357 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 3: But they did come to an agreement on a rather 358 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 3: large deal. 359 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 12: Negotiations were made to lease a multi acre of state 360 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 12: there at the World Fair. We would put amusement rides 361 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 12: throughout our area that we were going to operate, plus 362 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 12: there would be numerous concession stands, and in theory it 363 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 12: would have been a great money making ideal. And immediately 364 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 12: after we signed a contract for the land at the 365 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 12: World's Fair, I went to Germany and bought several different 366 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 12: kind of amusement rides, and they were expensive rides. Most 367 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 12: of those rides came out of Germany and they were 368 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 12: shipped from Germany to New York. 369 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 3: So, after the deal was signed and big money had 370 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 3: been spent on the rides and attractions, Moses called hunt 371 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 3: and Carrington back to his office. 372 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 12: At that time, we thought we were doing a great 373 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 12: job of what we were supposed to do, and it 374 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 12: was sort of patting ourselves on the back. But Robert 375 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 12: Moses walked in and without any great fanfare, he said 376 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 12: a decision had been made that he was going to 377 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 12: cancel mister Hunt's contract for his amusement rides, and on 378 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 12: the grounds that he felt like it was going to 379 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 12: be outlet for mister propaganda material from his Lifeline program. 380 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 3: In their contract, Moses had reserved the right to cancel 381 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 3: if he felt it was in the best interests of 382 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 3: the fair itself, and Hunt had no legal recourse, but 383 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 3: he correctly suspected that this was some sort of payback 384 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 3: for the nasty campaign Hunt had run against. 385 00:22:59,400 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 7: President. 386 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 3: Hunt called Vice President Lyndon Johnson to see if he 387 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 3: could intervene, but Johnson said that the decision had been 388 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 3: made above him. 389 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 7: And that he could do nothing about it. 390 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 12: From that moment, Miss Trunt was pretty well aware that 391 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 12: Lyndon Johnson was going to be dropped from the ticket 392 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 12: in nineteen sixty four, that Lyndon Johnson was losing his 393 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 12: power and influence. Every day after we were kicked out 394 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 12: of the World Fair. We probably stated in New York 395 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 12: another thirty days to wind up a lot of activities. 396 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 12: But on the way back to flying back to Dallas 397 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 12: from New York, Miss Hunt and I shall ever engaged 398 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 12: in personal conversations. We would fly side beside on an 399 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 12: airplane if he wanted to say something. I listened, but 400 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 12: I never volunteered any statements there. But on this particular trip, 401 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 12: Miss Hunt looked over and he says, John, I've just 402 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 12: about had a belly full of the Kennedy boys. They 403 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 12: both need to go. 404 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 3: We will return to hl Hunt and John Currington and 405 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 3: Currington's revelations about the murder of Martin Luther King, But 406 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 3: for that story to make sense, we need to first 407 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 3: visit another man with whom hl Hunt had an unusual relationship, 408 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 3: J A. Garhover, the lifelong director of the FBI. Shortly 409 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 3: after James Earl Ray was captured in London, j Edgar Hoover, 410 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 3: director of the FBI, met with Attorney General Ramsey Clark 411 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 3: and told him quote, we are dealing with a man 412 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 3: who is not an ordinary criminal. Ray is a racist 413 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 3: and detests negroes and Martin Luther King The question here 414 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 3: is why, before Ray had even been charged with the murder, 415 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 3: was j Edgar Hoover so eager to get give him 416 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 3: a motive? And how did he know that Ray detested 417 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 3: Martin Luther King in courtroom law. Motive is not a 418 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 3: necessary element of murder. If you can prove a person 419 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 3: killed someone, you don't have to know why. But if 420 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 3: you're looking at an unsolved murder, motive is normally the 421 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 3: first thing to consider. Who might want this person dead? 422 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 3: Or better still, was someone already. 423 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 7: Trying to harm him? 424 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 3: Any TV cop worth his salt starts with this. There were, 425 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 3: of course many people who did not like doctor King, 426 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 3: and perhaps many who wished him dead, But there was 427 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 3: one person with great resources who was already. 428 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 7: Trying to harm him. 429 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 3: It was the director of the FBI, j Edgar Hoover, 430 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 3: the same man who was the first to give Ray 431 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 3: his motive. No one, of course, dared question Hoover about 432 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 3: this at the time, but once Hoover died in nineteen 433 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 3: seventy two, there were calls to look into the activities 434 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 3: of the FBI, and particularly those in. 435 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 7: Regard to Martin Luther King. 436 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 3: The Committee under Senator Frank Church made their report in 437 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six, and this is what Senator Church had 438 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 3: to say about the activities of the FBI. 439 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 13: We have seen today the dark side of those activities, 440 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 13: where many Americans who were not even suspected of crime 441 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 13: were not only spied upon, but they were harassed, They 442 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 13: were discredited and at times endangered through the covert operations 443 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,439 Speaker 13: of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. 444 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 3: During the nineteen fifties, Jay Agar Hoover was at the 445 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 3: height of his power. His g men had hunted the folk, 446 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 3: Heiro bankroppers into extinction. Communists hiding in the halls of 447 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: government were his very reason for being, and his ghost 448 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 3: written book, Masters of Deceit was a best seller. 449 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 7: But in nineteen sixty there. 450 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,959 Speaker 3: Was a collision of sorts between Hoover, the newly elected 451 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 3: President John Kennedy, and the emerging civil rights movement. Blocks 452 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 3: in the South were making demands, Whites were responding with violence, 453 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 3: and public order was breaking down. Kennedy did have a 454 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 3: federal force to devote to the problem, the five thousand 455 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 3: men in the FBI, but Hoover had his own ideas 456 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 3: about how they should be used, and as Council Chris 457 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 3: mothers described to the Church committee. Kennedy got things off 458 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 3: to a bad start by asking a simple question. 459 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 14: So Kennedy wrote a memorandum asking mister Hoover how many 460 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 14: Negro special agents he had. Mister Hoover wrote back, we 461 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,520 Speaker 14: don't catalog people by race, creed, or color. Mister Kennedy 462 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 14: came back with another very nice letter. That's a little 463 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 14: laudatory attitude. You are commended to have it, but I 464 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,439 Speaker 14: still want to know how many Negro special agents do 465 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,959 Speaker 14: you have? So we were in trouble. It so happened 466 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 14: at during the war he had five Negro chauffeurs, so 467 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 14: he automatically made them special agents. So now we wrote 468 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 14: back and said we had five. 469 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 3: The civil rights movement posed a particular problem for Hoover. 470 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 3: The FBI had close relations with law enforcement, and many 471 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 3: of the police chiefs in the South were former FBI agents. 472 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 3: But reports started to come in about FBI men just 473 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 3: standing around as finally crimes were committed right in front 474 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 3: of them. In one incident, a plan was made to 475 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 3: attack a bus carrying freedom writers as it arrived in Birmingham, Alabama. 476 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: Thomas Rowe, an informant for the FBI, told the Church 477 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 3: committee that he had informed the Bureau about the attack 478 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 3: well before it happened. 479 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 15: Sir, I gave FBI information pertanning to the Freedom Writers 480 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 15: to so approximately three. 481 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 16: Weeks before the gird And what did you tell him? 482 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 15: I stated to him that I had been contacted by 483 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 15: a Birmingham City detective to set a reception for the 484 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 15: Freedom Writers. We were promised to fifteen minutes with absolutely 485 00:28:55,440 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 15: no intervention from any police officer whatsoever. The information was 486 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 15: passed on to the berread as route testified. 487 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: The passengers on that bus were badly beaten, and a 488 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 3: second bus was attacked outside of Birmingham and set on fire. 489 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: In Montgomery, Alabama, Freedom Writers were viciously attacked, some sustaining 490 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 3: life altering injuries as they were beaten on the head 491 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 3: and face with pipes. And what did John Patterson, the 492 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 3: governor of Alabama, have to say about it? 493 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 12: We can't act as nurse maids to agitators. 494 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 8: I think when they learned. 495 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 4: That when they go somewhere to Creator to create a rhyme, 496 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 4: that there's not. 497 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 15: Going to be somebody there to stand between them and 498 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 15: they're the crowd. 499 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 8: They'll stay home. 500 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 3: J Edgar Hoover voiced a similar hands off position. 501 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 17: We certainly do not and will not get protection to 502 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 17: civil rights workers. In the first place, The FBI is 503 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 17: not a police organization. It's purely an investigated organization, and 504 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 17: the protection of individual citizens, either natives of the state 505 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 17: or coming into the state, is a matter. 506 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 5: For the local authorities. 507 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,440 Speaker 17: The FBI will not participate in any such protection. 508 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 3: Almost every student of the time knows that j Edgar 509 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 3: Hoover wanted to bring down Martin Luther King. 510 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 7: But why. 511 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 3: The perfect person to ask is Beverly Gage, a professor 512 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 3: of history at Yale who has written a biography of 513 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 3: Hoover titled g Man, to be released by Viking later 514 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 3: this year. We spoke a few months ago, and I 515 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 3: asked Professor Gage what brought her to Hoover. 516 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 18: What attracted me to writing this book was not only 517 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 18: that Hoover himself is a fascinating figure and a fascinating 518 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 18: personality in his own right, but that the scope of 519 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 18: his career really covers almost all of the twentieth century. 520 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 18: He became director of the FBI in nineteen twenty four, 521 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 18: and he died in that job in nineteen seventy two. 522 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: When looking back on the nineteen fifties and sixties, the 523 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 3: standard rap on Hoover was that he did not and 524 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 3: would not vigorously investigate organized crime to keep the record balance. 525 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 3: Professor Gage mentioned a few modest crime programs that the 526 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 3: FBI did initiate in the nineteen fifties. But then there 527 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 3: was Hoover's big embarrassment. 528 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 18: Hoover did say many times that he didn't think that 529 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 18: there was some great cabal of organized crime figures who 530 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 18: got together to consult with each other. So in nineteen 531 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 18: fifty seven, when the great cabal of organized crime figures 532 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,239 Speaker 18: getting together to consult with each other was found at 533 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 18: Appalachian in New York, he was quite surprised and chagrined 534 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 18: by that. 535 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 3: It happened in the rural town of Appalachian, New York. 536 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: In August of nineteen fifty seven, mobster Joe Barbara hosted 537 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 3: a gathering of crime bosses from across the country at 538 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,479 Speaker 3: his estate. The purpose was to keep the peace and 539 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 3: decide who was to get what. But so many slick 540 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: cars without a state plates brought the police, who netted 541 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 3: sixty men in silk suits, some caught hiding in the woods, 542 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 3: who were the virtual who's who of American crime. Of course, 543 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 3: having a picnic with friends wasn't against the law, so 544 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 3: none of them did any real time, But Hoover was 545 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 3: severely embarrassed because, according to him, organized crime didn't exist. 546 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 3: The FBI then did initiate some anti crime programs, but 547 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 3: many observers feel that these were nothing more than something 548 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 3: to point to rather than real attempts to bring down 549 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 3: organized crime. As far as Martin Luther King, the official 550 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 3: explanation for Hoover's abusive conduct was that he was protecting 551 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 3: the country from communists who were supposedly infiltrating the civil 552 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 3: rights movement. Hoover's big claim was that an advisor to King, 553 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 3: a man named Stanley Levinson. 554 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 7: Was said to be a communist. In the nineteen. 555 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 3: Fifties, Levison did associate with members of the American Communist Party, 556 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 3: a legal political organization, but this contact fell away after 557 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 3: Levison devoted himself to helping King with such things as 558 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 3: fundraising and speech writing. So was Levison a genuine concern 559 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 3: of Hoover's or just a way for him to bargain 560 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 3: for closer surveillance of King. 561 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 18: I think it was a combination of things. So Hoover 562 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 18: was deeply racist in many many ways. He was certainly 563 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 18: seeing all of these things through a highly racialized lens. 564 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 18: He also tended to exaggerate quite a lot when it 565 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 18: came to the domestic communist threat, So he had his 566 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 18: own ideological lens through which he would have interpreted the 567 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 18: evidence about Odell and Levison in very, very alarmist ways. 568 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 3: How alarmist consider this? In August nineteen sixty three, Martin 569 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 3: Luther King led a march on Washington and touched the 570 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 3: heart of a nation with a speech that invoked dreams 571 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 3: of love, peace, and brotherhood. Two days later, Assistant Director 572 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 3: of the FBI William Sullivan wrote a memo to Hoover 573 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 3: in which he termed King the most dangerous Negro in America. 574 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 3: But what came next was more chilling. It may be unrealistic. 575 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 3: Sullivan wrote to Hoover to limit ourselves to legalistic proofs 576 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 3: or evidence that would stand up in court or before 577 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 3: congressional committees. 578 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 7: What did you have in mind? Just three months. 579 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 3: Later, President John Kennedy was murdered, and while Robert Kennedy 580 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 3: stayed on for a time as Attorney General, his power 581 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:37,680 Speaker 3: over Hoover instantly disappeared. Exactly one month after President Kennedy 582 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 3: was killed, there was a secret nine hour meeting at 583 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 3: the FBI headquarters in Washington, which involved key higher ups 584 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 3: in the Bureau and the regional directors from Atlanta, Birmingham, 585 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 3: and Memphis. What was the meeting about, we asked Professor Gage. 586 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 18: So the main focus of that meeting was really trying 587 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 18: to figure out how to take down Martin Luther King, 588 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 18: how to build a apparatus that was going to destroy 589 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 18: King personally. That was the stated goal. They were quite 590 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,919 Speaker 18: explicit about laying out a campaign to destroy King. 591 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 3: The FBI campaign against King that emerged from that all 592 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,280 Speaker 3: day meeting was vicious and relentless. This is how Council 593 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 3: Fred Schwartz described it to the members of the Church 594 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,160 Speaker 3: Committee in nineteen seventy six. 595 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 16: After the March on Washington, there was an acceleration. He 596 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 16: was defined because of his speech in that demonstration in 597 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,240 Speaker 16: Washington as the most dangerous and effective leader in the country, 598 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 16: and there was a paper battle between within the Bureau 599 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 16: as to how best to attack him, and he was 600 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,239 Speaker 16: attacked after a Time magazine named him a Man of 601 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 16: the Year again, the Bureau finds that reprehensible, believes it 602 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 16: must attack and destroy it when he was given the 603 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 16: Nobel Prize. 604 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 5: Again, they seek to discredit doctor King. 605 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 16: The FBI sought to prevent the Pope from meeting with 606 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 16: Doctor King. His effort went. 607 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 7: On and on and on. 608 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 3: Most FBI agents who were involved in the anti King 609 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 3: activities have said very little about it over the years. 610 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 7: But there was. 611 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 3: One agent, Arthur Murtaw, who was assigned to the anti 612 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 3: King squad in Atlanta, who has come forward. This is 613 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 3: what he had to say from the witness stand at 614 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 3: race televised mock trial in nineteen ninety three. 615 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 19: I was on a squad that was referred to as 616 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:41,200 Speaker 19: a security squad. I would say that probably ninety eight 617 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,240 Speaker 19: percent of the time of the people on that squad 618 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 19: was involved in one way or another with the investigation 619 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 19: of doctor King. They also were involved in counter intelligence 620 00:36:54,080 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 19: operations which were designed to make up stories about doctor King, 621 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 19: any kind of a story to detegrate his character and 622 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 19: then go to what the Bureau referred to and the 623 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 19: Bureau of Papers referred to as friendly members of the press. 624 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 19: I was very ambivalent about what to do. I knew 625 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 19: about a lot of this stuff at least by nineteen. 626 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 11: Fifty five, and it bothered me. 627 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 20: I didn't know whether to resign or stay in. 628 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 19: One of my brothers said to me, we had a 629 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 19: big family, eight of us. 630 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 20: He said, art, if things are as bad in the 631 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 20: FBI as you say they are, the whole system would crumble. 632 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 20: I said, it won't crumble because Hoover has the power 633 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 20: to keep it from crumbling. He has everybody scared to death. 634 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 20: They do exactly as they tell him. He had everybody 635 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 20: in his pocket with his secret files. 636 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 3: As Mirtaja said, the ongoing operations against King were referred 637 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,399 Speaker 3: to in the FBI as counter intelligence, as the King 638 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,839 Speaker 3: were some sort of Russian spy. But once Hoover got 639 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 3: permission to wiretap King, virtually none of the resulting reports 640 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 3: dealt with Communist influence. They focused instead on embarrassing material 641 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 3: in King's private life that could be used to bring 642 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 3: him down. Virtually every hotel room King would occupy was bugged, 643 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 3: and Hoover began collecting tapes that were sent to an 644 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 3: FBI lab to be reconstructed or improved, tapes that he 645 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 3: could share with political allies and various news outlets. But 646 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,319 Speaker 3: Hoover was frustrated when no one wanted to run with 647 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 3: his story, so, as Professor Gage tells us, he had 648 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:36,800 Speaker 3: another idea. 649 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 18: The FBI puts together an audio tape of some of 650 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 18: what they've captured in King's hotel room, and Sullivan also 651 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 18: writes a letter that purports to be from a former 652 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 18: admirer of Kings who has found out about King's private 653 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,280 Speaker 18: and sexual life and is now rush by what he's discovered. 654 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 18: It's really vicious and really over the top. It calls 655 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 18: King a beast, a disgusting creature. It goes into details 656 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 18: about some of the women that he's alleged to be seeing. 657 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 18: It uses every kind of sexualized racial stereotype that you 658 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,359 Speaker 18: can imagine. And this letter concludes by saying, you know 659 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 18: what you have to do? An attempt by the FBI 660 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 18: to get him. 661 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 7: To kill himself. 662 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 18: That letter became public for the first time, or knowledge 663 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 18: of that letter became public in the nineteen seventies, when 664 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 18: the Church Committee were investigating what it was that the 665 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 18: FBI had been up to in the sixties, what they 666 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 18: have been doing against. 667 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 3: King, sending the tape in the letter to King, trying 668 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 3: to induce suicide or at least discredit him right before 669 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 3: he was to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. Was a 670 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 3: vicious and highly illegal thing for the FBI to do, 671 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 3: and it was clearly done with Hoover's blessing. It did 672 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 3: not deter King from continuing to lead the fight for 673 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 3: civil rights and economic justice, but he and those close 674 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 3: to him were deeply wounded. Isaac Farris, King's nephew, feels 675 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 3: particularly bitter about the government's assault on his family. 676 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 21: My aunt had been the victim of j Egar Hoover, 677 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 21: you know, lying to her. He actually sent a tte 678 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,960 Speaker 21: to my aunt and uncle's home. It was addressed to 679 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 21: my aunt lay and Behald. It was a recording of 680 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:34,959 Speaker 21: someone sounding to have sex. By this time, my aunt 681 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 21: had had four children by my uncle's so I mean 682 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 21: she was the expert on what he sounded like when 683 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 21: he was having sex, and so I mean she immediately 684 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 21: knew that it was not him, as she said, that's 685 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:49,720 Speaker 21: not my husband. 686 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 7: I mean, I know how he sounds. 687 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,280 Speaker 3: Farris was a young boy at the time King was murdered, 688 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 3: and the version of these events he was given may 689 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 3: have been sanitized, But whether the tapes were genuine faked 690 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 3: or improved. Recording these events under the guise of looking 691 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 3: for communists and then using these recordings to try to 692 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 3: destroy King was a crime, a serious crime, perpetrated by 693 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 3: j Edgar Hoover himself. 694 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,720 Speaker 7: Next time on the MLK tapes. 695 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 22: Should the Committee take special note that the conduct of 696 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,680 Speaker 22: the FBI and this conspiracy of harassment of doctor King 697 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 22: was not only unjustified as policy, it was also illegal 698 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:39,880 Speaker 22: and unconstitutional. 699 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 12: Hoover used to send in Toulson on a regular basis 700 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,320 Speaker 12: to meet with the Adkins family to Dixie Mafia people. 701 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,680 Speaker 6: The plan was to get King to the city because 702 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 6: Tolson said that they wanted it handled in Memphis where 703 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 6: Detdie and Nim could handled. Now from Hoover, yeah, I 704 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 6: don't think Cloud was doing that on his own. 705 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 12: I've never heard such now language as Lenda Johnson used 706 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 12: in describing here stealing from Martin Lusey King, and the 707 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 12: same same with Jagor Hoover. 708 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 23: I called him and I said, mister Hoover, I just 709 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 23: got a telex message from our Memphis office said that 710 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 23: Martin Luther King was shot while standing on a belt 711 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,319 Speaker 23: gat in that city, and his immediate reaction to me 712 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 23: was is He Dead? 713 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,520 Speaker 24: Thanks for listening to The MLK Tapes, a production of 714 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 24: iHeart Radio and Tenderfoot TV. This podcast is not specifically 715 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 24: endorsed by the King Family or the King of State. 716 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,960 Speaker 24: The MLK Tapes is written and hosted by Bill Claper, 717 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 24: Matt Frederick, and Alex Williams our executive producers on behalf 718 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,959 Speaker 24: of iHeart Radio with producers Trevor Young and Jesse Funk. 719 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 24: Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay are executive producers on half 720 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,560 Speaker 24: of tender Foot TV with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith Stedman. 721 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 24: Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Cover art by 722 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 24: Mister Soul two one six with photography by Artemis Jenkins. 723 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 24: Special thanks to Owin Rosenbaum and Grace Royer at UTA, 724 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 24: the Nord Group, Beck Median Marketing, Envision Business Management, and 725 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,840 Speaker 24: Station sixteen. If you have questions, you can visit our website, 726 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:28,120 Speaker 24: the emailktapes dot com. We posted photos and videos related 727 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 24: to the podcast on our social media accounts. You can 728 00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 24: check them out at the emailk Tapes. For more podcasts 729 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 24: from iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV, please visit the iHeartRadio app, 730 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,279 Speaker 24: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows