WEBVTT - Guilt After Growth, Crying Under Pressure & Avoiding Anger (Couch Talks) 0:00:00.090 --> 0:00:01.520 Just a reminder, even though we are answering your questions 0:00:01.580 --> 0:00:02.980 on Couch Talks, this podcast does not serve as a 0:00:02.980 --> 0:00:05.210 replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. 0:00:09.300 --> 0:00:12.320 If you ever have feelings that you just want some, 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:16.360 Amy and Kat got you covered like an umbrella. Ladies 0:00:16.380 --> 0:00:19.330 and fellas, we just follow in the spirit where it 0:00:19.350 --> 0:00:22.790 tell us. From the real stuff to the chill stuff 0:00:23.230 --> 0:00:27.150 and the in-between. Sometimes the best thing you can do 0:00:27.210 --> 0:00:32.240 is just stop and feel things. This is Feeling Things 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:33.240 with Amy and Kat. 0:00:33.340 --> 0:00:38.680 Happy Thursday. Amy here for another Couch Talks without Kat. Yeah, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:41.269 you heard Chase on Tuesday, so you probably knew that 0:00:41.290 --> 0:00:44.210 this was going to be the case. Kat is still 0:00:44.229 --> 0:00:49.130 with Zoe, but we do plan on maybe next week. 0:00:49.270 --> 0:00:52.320 I don't want to speak for her, but hopefully everything 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.480 will be fine. in alignment and Kat will be back. 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.660 If not, I'll figure something out for y'all. While she's away, 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.310 we're dipping back into the archives for another one of 0:01:01.340 --> 0:01:04.530 your favorite Couch Talks episodes. Same heads up as last week. 0:01:04.630 --> 0:01:07.450 This one is from earlier this year. So if we're 0:01:07.470 --> 0:01:09.569 not in that phase of life, like we're talking about 0:01:09.910 --> 0:01:13.270 Kat trying to get pregnant or me having a boyfriend 0:01:13.610 --> 0:01:15.870 and doesn't line up with what you've heard about us recently, well, 0:01:15.910 --> 0:01:21.410 that's because this is from February and it is now October. 0:01:22.020 --> 0:01:24.319 So I can't wait for Kat to be back. Thank 0:01:24.340 --> 0:01:26.220 you for bearing with us. If this is your first 0:01:26.260 --> 0:01:29.370 time hearing this episode, then great, it'll be all new 0:01:29.430 --> 0:01:32.450 to you. If you heard it and you're like, oh, 0:01:32.510 --> 0:01:33.890 I don't know if I'm gonna keep listening. Well, I 0:01:33.930 --> 0:01:36.130 totally get that. And also if you choose to keep listening, 0:01:36.209 --> 0:01:38.110 you never know what you might hear differently depending on 0:01:38.450 --> 0:01:40.670 what season of life you're in. All right, let's get 0:01:40.709 --> 0:01:42.509 into it. Here you go. And don't forget to have 0:01:42.550 --> 0:01:45.170 the day you need to have. Thanks y'all. Happy Thursday. 0:01:45.390 --> 0:01:48.240 Welcome to Couch Talks, our Q & A episode to 0:01:48.300 --> 0:01:49.480 the Feeling Things podcast. 0:01:49.540 --> 0:01:50.620 I'm Amy. And I'm Kat. 0:01:51.130 --> 0:01:54.150 And today's email is, well, should we say his name? 0:01:54.690 --> 0:01:55.490 Keep him anonymous. 0:01:55.630 --> 0:01:58.510 He didn't say to not say his name, but. 0:01:59.050 --> 0:02:00.470 We're going to call him A. Yeah. 0:02:00.490 --> 0:02:00.970 Okay. Thank you. 0:02:01.230 --> 0:02:04.830 We'll just call him A. So just if you're writing in, 0:02:05.450 --> 0:02:07.560 if you want to be anonymous, make sure to clarify that. 0:02:07.830 --> 0:02:09.570 And if you don't care, sometimes you're like, I don't care. 0:02:09.620 --> 0:02:12.200 Use my name. Go for it. Tell the world. It 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.220 just helps us know, but we'll always err on the 0:02:14.260 --> 0:02:16.940 side of caution. Hey, Amy and Kat, my wife is 0:02:16.980 --> 0:02:18.899 a big fan of your show and introduced me to 0:02:18.940 --> 0:02:22.049 it shortly after we separated four months ago. I've been 0:02:22.070 --> 0:02:25.290 in therapy since then as well. Your new episodes come 0:02:25.389 --> 0:02:27.649 out on Apple Podcasts the same day that I have 0:02:27.690 --> 0:02:30.030 therapy in the morning. It has been really great to 0:02:30.070 --> 0:02:32.270 be able to connect with the things you both discuss 0:02:32.350 --> 0:02:36.150 while still having my therapy discussion fresh in my mind. 0:02:36.970 --> 0:02:39.260 I've discovered some really deep things about myself and I'm 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.720 on the upside of the J curve in my therapy, 0:02:42.380 --> 0:02:45.200 which is We'll explain the J curve in a minute. 0:02:45.500 --> 0:02:47.560 Kat and I had to look it up to make 0:02:47.580 --> 0:02:50.220 sure we knew exactly what he was talking about. Okay, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.639 back to the email. Something that not a lot of 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.320 people discuss in therapy type podcasts is the deep guilt 0:02:56.510 --> 0:03:00.990 and regret that sort of tags along with so much self-discovery. 0:03:01.910 --> 0:03:04.390 Do you have any advice for people who are starting 0:03:04.430 --> 0:03:07.750 to become more self-aware and struggle with the guilt of 0:03:07.790 --> 0:03:10.760 the person they used to be and the regret that 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:14.150 comes with discovering how poorly they They've treated the people 0:03:14.650 --> 0:03:16.950 closest to them in their lives. Thank you for the 0:03:16.990 --> 0:03:19.429 work that you do and the positive vibes you're adding 0:03:19.450 --> 0:03:23.510 to the idea of therapy for people who listen. Shout 0:03:23.590 --> 0:03:26.530 out to the ex-wife for getting you to listen. Oh, well, 0:03:26.550 --> 0:03:27.889 just separated wife. Yeah. 0:03:28.669 --> 0:03:29.790 Current wife. Yeah. 0:03:29.930 --> 0:03:33.970 Yeah. Current. Maybe there's hope. I think that there can 0:03:34.070 --> 0:03:37.460 be redemption here if that's what y'all want. But I'm 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:38.400 glad she got you listening. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.800 Yeah. Especially there could be redemption because he's on the 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.460 upside of the J curve. That's right. Which if you 0:03:43.500 --> 0:03:46.160 don't know what that is, Amy asked me and I 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:47.590 was like, well, it's just like a curve that goes 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.450 up like a J. But I didn't know what that, 0:03:50.730 --> 0:03:53.890 why and why he would use that reference. So I 0:03:53.910 --> 0:03:56.690 looked it up and there's a reason I don't, I mean, 0:03:56.730 --> 0:03:59.590 there's no, there's no reason we would know this. I 0:03:59.610 --> 0:04:01.340 feel like it's like a finance thing, right? 0:04:01.780 --> 0:04:06.300 Yeah. I definitely don't work in finance. Yeah. Me too. 0:04:06.340 --> 0:04:10.280 Okay. Online says a J curve is a graphical representation 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:15.100 showing an initial decline in a variable such as an investment, returns, 0:04:15.180 --> 0:04:19.250 or trade balance, followed by a sharper long-term recovery and growth, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.230 resulting in a shape like the letter J. So I 0:04:22.270 --> 0:04:25.070 think it's just like return on investment. So he invested 0:04:25.089 --> 0:04:29.870 in therapy. There might be a little bit of a decline, 0:04:29.890 --> 0:04:31.810 you know, and I always tell people it gets worse 0:04:31.850 --> 0:04:34.919 before it gets better. And then you see the upward swoop. 0:04:35.420 --> 0:04:38.239 Now Kat's going to be welcoming new clients in. Welcome 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:39.810 to the J curve. 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.279 Literally. And they're like, what is that? I'm like, oh, 0:04:42.290 --> 0:04:42.770 let me tell you. 0:04:43.830 --> 0:04:45.070 So you're going to be here and then it's going 0:04:45.089 --> 0:04:46.430 to get worse. You're going to be like, what am 0:04:46.450 --> 0:04:48.070 I doing? And you got to ride it out because 0:04:48.089 --> 0:04:48.950 eventually you're going. 0:04:48.870 --> 0:04:50.510 To go up. Up, up, up and up. 0:04:50.730 --> 0:04:53.190 Like a J. I think that his feelings are very 0:04:53.250 --> 0:04:53.849 common though. 0:04:53.970 --> 0:04:54.150 Yes. 0:04:54.210 --> 0:04:57.650 Regretting your past self. I think that's actually a really 0:04:57.730 --> 0:05:02.030 healthy sign because if you weren't feeling that, you might 0:05:02.070 --> 0:05:03.570 not be on the upper side of the J curve. 0:05:04.130 --> 0:05:07.510 No, he wouldn't be. And I think that guilt is 0:05:07.550 --> 0:05:09.680 one of those feelings that's very hard to feel because 0:05:09.710 --> 0:05:14.640 it's so uncomfortable. And if we didn't have guilt, we 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.200 wouldn't be good people. Like guilt helps us like stay 0:05:18.220 --> 0:05:22.560 within our values and our morals. So feeling it while 0:05:22.700 --> 0:05:25.390 I don't enjoy it, there is some gratitude in it 0:05:25.430 --> 0:05:27.250 because it's like, oh, this is telling me that like 0:05:27.290 --> 0:05:29.690 this isn't me. This isn't the real me. And so 0:05:30.130 --> 0:05:33.089 when he's looking back on his past self, He can 0:05:33.110 --> 0:05:35.650 maybe have some self-compassion, which that's what I was going 0:05:35.670 --> 0:05:40.110 to maybe recommend is doing some self-compassion work and look at, oh, well, 0:05:40.130 --> 0:05:43.250 that wasn't the real me. That was me covering up 0:05:43.810 --> 0:05:46.110 all of my stuff because of whatever was going on. 0:05:46.750 --> 0:05:48.750 I don't know what he's really going through. But the 0:05:48.790 --> 0:05:51.130 real me is this person who doesn't want to show 0:05:51.190 --> 0:05:53.390 up like that and treat people like that. And so 0:05:53.410 --> 0:05:55.470 you can make amends if it makes sense in some 0:05:55.490 --> 0:05:58.070 of those areas. But I don't know if you feel this, 0:05:58.130 --> 0:06:00.620 but I used to get really, really down on myself 0:06:01.220 --> 0:06:03.469 for who I was and like, high school. 0:06:03.970 --> 0:06:06.050 I think I have some actions that I know I 0:06:06.110 --> 0:06:09.370 did as a child, but I see it so clearly 0:06:09.390 --> 0:06:11.290 of I know what I was trying to do that 0:06:11.310 --> 0:06:12.450 I have compassion for that. 0:06:12.750 --> 0:06:16.170 Right. Well, I've done some self-compassion work, but I look 0:06:16.210 --> 0:06:18.690 back and I'm like, oh my gosh, not even like 0:06:18.750 --> 0:06:21.130 things that I did, but things that I didn't do. 0:06:21.170 --> 0:06:22.890 Like I wish I was nicer to that kid in 0:06:22.910 --> 0:06:24.850 my class that didn't have any friends to sit by. 0:06:24.870 --> 0:06:27.100 Or I wish that I would have invited that person 0:06:27.130 --> 0:06:29.900 to my birthday party. Like what would have mattered? Little 0:06:29.940 --> 0:06:31.840 things like that. But I think also then I have 0:06:31.860 --> 0:06:35.570 that gratitude now and can be so much more inclusive 0:06:35.610 --> 0:06:37.930 to people because I know that looking back, I'm like, 0:06:37.990 --> 0:06:41.180 that doesn't feel good to think about those people who 0:06:41.190 --> 0:06:42.190 were like somebody sitting. 0:06:42.210 --> 0:06:43.180 No, I love that. 0:06:43.210 --> 0:06:45.360 Somebody sitting alone at a lunch table, even like a 0:06:45.420 --> 0:06:47.960 movie or something that gets me, that really, really gets me. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.140 And not because that was ever me because, which is, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:53.800 it could have been me, but not because I had 0:06:53.820 --> 0:06:55.900 that like feeling of like, I know what that feels like. 0:06:55.980 --> 0:06:58.000 It's because when I see that, I don't know, I 0:06:58.020 --> 0:07:00.340 have like a visceral feeling of, I wouldn't ever want 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:03.219 to be the reason that somebody didn't have to sit. Yeah. 0:07:04.130 --> 0:07:06.770 So I've had to do some self-compassion work and say 0:07:06.810 --> 0:07:10.740 like you were 16. Your brain wasn't fully developed. And 0:07:11.220 --> 0:07:14.240 at 16, it makes sense to be like it's survival 0:07:14.260 --> 0:07:16.930 of the fittest kind of thing. It makes me think 0:07:16.940 --> 0:07:19.800 of Mean Girls when I talk about this. Yeah, because 0:07:19.820 --> 0:07:20.800 they're all like animals. 0:07:20.820 --> 0:07:21.680 That is definitely not your vibe. 0:07:21.740 --> 0:07:23.680 No, no, no. But like when they're all like acting 0:07:23.700 --> 0:07:24.220 like animals. 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.500 Let's be honest. Your nickname was Little Jesus. 0:07:27.540 --> 0:07:28.480 That was in college. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.540 Okay. College, high school. 0:07:31.580 --> 0:07:33.840 But I think even he can think about like was 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.350 it developmentally appropriate at some places for you to show 0:07:37.410 --> 0:07:40.910 up in certain ways? Like it was developmentally appropriate for 0:07:40.930 --> 0:07:42.570 me to show up in certain ways in high school. 0:07:42.770 --> 0:07:45.750 I think if he's doing work during a separation, I'm 0:07:46.710 --> 0:07:49.160 going to go out on a limb. I'll maybe relate 0:07:49.180 --> 0:07:52.180 to him in that vein because I've gone through a divorce. 0:07:52.860 --> 0:07:56.550 I went through a year's worth of couples therapy during 0:07:56.590 --> 0:08:00.450 my separation with my spouse. So we were not living 0:08:00.490 --> 0:08:05.350 together and we were seeing a therapist every week. And 0:08:05.370 --> 0:08:09.900 a lot would come up during the 17 years of 0:08:09.940 --> 0:08:13.100 our marriage. And we had to own a lot of stuff. 0:08:13.980 --> 0:08:17.980 And neither one of us... We're very proud in how 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.290 we showed up at times for each other and the 0:08:20.370 --> 0:08:24.230 hurt and the pain that we caused. And now ultimately 0:08:24.270 --> 0:08:26.950 we decided not to move forward. And that was the 0:08:26.990 --> 0:08:29.050 goal of the year of therapy. Where are we going 0:08:29.070 --> 0:08:32.290 to land after this? And I think both of us 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.979 ended up on the upside of the J curve. And 0:08:36.020 --> 0:08:38.700 then we had to make that decision. But because we 0:08:38.740 --> 0:08:40.520 were on the upside and we both were doing so 0:08:40.540 --> 0:08:42.460 much work and we were able to make amends, you know, 0:08:42.500 --> 0:08:45.580 you mentioned amends. Maybe that's something like if this does 0:08:45.630 --> 0:08:47.250 have to do with how you were showing up as 0:08:47.290 --> 0:08:52.560 a husband and something that led to the separation, you 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.140 may have regret of who you were. And this could 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.220 be an opportunity if y'all are separated and still working 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.280 on it. Either way, it's going to be good for 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.300 your relationship however it ends up if you're able to 0:09:03.740 --> 0:09:09.400 own who you were and apologize, make amends if necessary. 0:09:09.420 --> 0:09:11.940 Because I guarantee you if we hadn't made amends. We 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.699 wouldn't co-parent the way that we do. Like I have 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:16.800 a lot of respect for the fact that we've sat 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.959 down and we both have owned our stuff to each other. 0:09:19.700 --> 0:09:23.040 That was very, very helpful in the process and just 0:09:23.100 --> 0:09:27.949 accepting the past and not just that, that compassion piece 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.189 for who you were, but just knowing that it was 0:09:31.230 --> 0:09:34.069 a part of your story of becoming who you are today. 0:09:34.090 --> 0:09:36.770 And because you know how you don't want to show up, 0:09:36.809 --> 0:09:39.400 like you know how you do. Sort of like you're saying, Kat, 0:09:39.420 --> 0:09:41.420 like now you know you do want to be inclusive. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.120 You know that book, Maybe You Should Talk to Somebody? Yes. 0:09:45.140 --> 0:09:46.120 You read that one too, right? 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:47.059 Lori Gottlieb. Yeah. 0:09:47.980 --> 0:09:51.650 So she talks about, and this is not going to 0:09:51.670 --> 0:09:53.650 make sense at first, but I'm going to get there, 0:09:53.670 --> 0:09:56.310 so bear with me. She talks about forced forgiveness in 0:09:56.350 --> 0:09:58.990 that book, and that was one of my favorite things, 0:09:59.050 --> 0:10:02.610 parts of the book. where she had a client whose 0:10:03.010 --> 0:10:05.470 father was very absent in his life. I don't remember 0:10:05.510 --> 0:10:08.090 all the details. It doesn't really matter because she changed 0:10:08.110 --> 0:10:10.569 the details of this person anyway. But the father was absent, 0:10:10.610 --> 0:10:13.429 not a good father. There might have been abuse or neglect. 0:10:13.450 --> 0:10:13.750 I don't know. 0:10:14.770 --> 0:10:18.490 As the father was dying, the son went to see him. 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.300 And the father apologized and was like, I didn't treat 0:10:22.340 --> 0:10:26.719 you right. I'm so sorry. And the son said, I 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.000 think just like, thank you. Or I know it wasn't okay. 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.819 He didn't say I forgive you. And I really liked 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.860 that story because it showed that you can accept something 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.980 and move on from it without forgiving. And it doesn't 0:10:42.020 --> 0:10:44.950 mean that he's like harboring this like deep resentment towards 0:10:44.970 --> 0:10:47.750 this person. And so I think a lot of times 0:10:47.770 --> 0:10:50.300 when we're doing this kind of work with ourselves, we 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.340 want that resolution of like, I want to forgive myself. 0:10:52.460 --> 0:10:54.580 I want to like get over this and like have 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.160 the perfect amount of self-compassion and just forgiveness is like 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.480 the goal when maybe the goal right now is acceptance. 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.380 And then you have self-compassion and then maybe forgiveness comes, 0:11:05.460 --> 0:11:07.380 but you also can move forward without it. And it 0:11:07.420 --> 0:11:10.520 doesn't have to be this like deep wound that lives 0:11:10.580 --> 0:11:13.839 inside of you. Because I think there's been a lot of, 0:11:14.670 --> 0:11:18.240 rhetoric around how forgiveness is like drinking a poison and 0:11:18.250 --> 0:11:20.819 you're the one that suffers or whatever. We've all heard that. 0:11:21.380 --> 0:11:24.340 Or I said resentment is that. And sometimes it's not. 0:11:24.620 --> 0:11:27.959 Sometimes it's just you having an appropriate feeling. Like maybe 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.120 you're still mad at yourself for that, but you can 0:11:30.140 --> 0:11:32.089 move forward and that'd be a future goal. 0:11:32.730 --> 0:11:34.490 So it's that you get stuck in it. 0:11:34.850 --> 0:11:35.070 Yeah. 0:11:35.110 --> 0:11:36.650 That's the poison part. Yes. 0:11:36.830 --> 0:11:39.060 Well, sure. But yeah, if you get stuck in it, 0:11:39.110 --> 0:11:43.150 but I also can never forgive somebody and move forward. 0:11:43.470 --> 0:11:45.790 And be like, that wasn't okay. That will never be okay. 0:11:46.150 --> 0:11:49.020 I'm not forgiving you. And I can move forward from this. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.460 So I was at a little gathering the other night 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.809 and feelings came up. These are like all adult people. 0:12:07.540 --> 0:12:09.980 So I was at a little gathering the other night 0:12:10.260 --> 0:12:13.380 and feelings came up. These are like all adult people. 0:12:14.020 --> 0:12:16.199 And somehow I ended up on the other side of 0:12:16.220 --> 0:12:18.540 the room, like kind of sitting by the fireplace talking 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.020 to this guy. He was there, like I was there 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:22.640 with my boyfriend. His wife was there, I think, talking 0:12:22.660 --> 0:12:24.140 to my boyfriend. So we were in separate parts of 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.220 the room, but feelings came up. Anger came up. Another 0:12:27.260 --> 0:12:29.420 wife joined the conversation at one point. And then some 0:12:29.580 --> 0:12:33.400 resentment came up about stuff with her family. And, you know, 0:12:33.420 --> 0:12:36.600 he was talking about anger in his life in certain 0:12:36.660 --> 0:12:39.800 areas without giving away his story, but just anger was 0:12:39.850 --> 0:12:43.270 really prevalent at a certain point in his life. And 0:12:43.870 --> 0:12:48.130 it has made him now as an adult, he doesn't 0:12:48.570 --> 0:12:52.109 get angry. He doesn't like anger. It's almost like because 0:12:52.150 --> 0:12:55.110 he had so much of it around that now he's like, 0:12:55.610 --> 0:12:59.770 this seems really unproductive. This feeling is a very unproductive feeling. 0:12:59.809 --> 0:13:03.840 And I was like, well, anger can give you information. 0:13:04.750 --> 0:13:07.080 Like it can tell you what you're passionate about, what 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.960 you care about. Like, of course, if you stay angry, 0:13:09.980 --> 0:13:10.760 that can be really bad. 0:13:10.780 --> 0:13:11.780 But I was like, man. 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:14.640 And he's like, well, like, when's the last time you 0:13:14.660 --> 0:13:23.500 felt angry? I was like, this morning. I'm angry right now. Anyway, 0:13:23.540 --> 0:13:25.880 he was really, really nice. But it just was interesting 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:30.559 to hear someone talk about how they don't allow a feeling. 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.380 And I said, well, you know, what I would be 0:13:33.420 --> 0:13:36.470 worried about is if there really was anger that needed 0:13:36.530 --> 0:13:39.650 to be felt and that I've suppressed it. And then 0:13:39.710 --> 0:13:42.320 it now manifests as something else or one day you 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.059 might explode. But he's like, well, really, no, I just 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:47.670 don't have it. 0:13:48.179 --> 0:13:49.860 I wonder what his Enneagram number is. 0:13:50.620 --> 0:13:51.280 I didn't ask that. 0:13:51.300 --> 0:13:53.440 That would have been too far. 0:13:53.460 --> 0:13:55.800 But we were just getting into each other. 0:13:55.820 --> 0:13:57.780 That's very common though. If there are people that grow 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.620 up in environments where anger is explosive and maybe they're 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.260 really seeing rage and Yeah. I'd be like, that's not 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.280 productive and scary. And I don't like that. And it 0:14:07.300 --> 0:14:09.439 reminds me of bad times. So I would want to 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:10.380 run away from it too. 0:14:10.620 --> 0:14:12.500 You know, when we first started feeling things and we 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:14.400 went through each one of the feelings and we covered 0:14:14.800 --> 0:14:16.690 like the core, the top, what do we call them? 0:14:16.830 --> 0:14:18.030 Eight. Eight core feelings. 0:14:18.070 --> 0:14:18.230 Yeah. 0:14:18.390 --> 0:14:20.250 The eight. The eight. 0:14:20.930 --> 0:14:24.050 The core eight. If you haven't heard those, we did 0:14:24.130 --> 0:14:25.930 break them all down. I think we did like maybe 0:14:25.970 --> 0:14:29.370 two feelings per episode. And I was like, this would 0:14:29.390 --> 0:14:31.550 be so lame. I thought about pulling up the anger 0:14:31.590 --> 0:14:34.270 button and sending it to him. I don't have his number, 0:14:34.690 --> 0:14:36.229 but I could have my boyfriend do it. 0:14:36.270 --> 0:14:38.030 I met this girl at a party and now she's 0:14:38.050 --> 0:14:38.670 sending me. 0:14:39.930 --> 0:14:43.590 I know. Well, he was asking me how feelings even 0:14:43.610 --> 0:14:45.770 came up as he was like, so you have a podcast? 0:14:46.350 --> 0:14:48.470 And I was like, well, he knew I was on 0:14:48.490 --> 0:14:49.850 the radio and he's like, how long have you been 0:14:49.870 --> 0:14:52.990 doing that? And I said, oh, 20 years. And then 0:14:53.050 --> 0:14:55.690 he said, well, what about the podcast part? Cause that 0:14:55.710 --> 0:14:57.470 hasn't been around as long. And I said, oh, well, 0:14:58.150 --> 0:15:00.350 The Bobby Pond Show, we've been podcasting forever as well. 0:15:00.430 --> 0:15:02.510 Like we've been loading up stuff to iTunes since like 0:15:02.510 --> 0:15:07.820 2010 or something. And then– but my own podcast in 2018, 0:15:07.820 --> 0:15:11.120 I said– and last year I pivoted and he's like, well, 0:15:11.140 --> 0:15:13.420 what's the focus? I was like feeling things. And then 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.740 he was like, speaking of feelings, I don't like the 0:15:15.780 --> 0:15:17.940 feeling anger. I mean that's how it– like if you're 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:18.990 wondering like how we got there. 0:15:19.020 --> 0:15:20.260 So he just jumped into it though. 0:15:20.300 --> 0:15:21.830 So that's why I didn't think it would be totally 0:15:21.850 --> 0:15:24.570 weird if I sent him the episode where we cover anger, 0:15:24.890 --> 0:15:29.190 the gifts of that feeling. And then also– the impairments 0:15:29.270 --> 0:15:30.530 if you don't feel it. Yeah. 0:15:31.010 --> 0:15:32.290 So it wouldn't be super weird. 0:15:32.490 --> 0:15:34.050 I don't think it would be that weird. 0:15:34.090 --> 0:15:35.710 Maybe just like wait till the next time you hang 0:15:35.770 --> 0:15:36.130 out with him. 0:15:36.220 --> 0:15:37.780 And it would be one extra download. 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:38.900 And a man. 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:40.540 And a man. Oh my gosh. 0:15:41.820 --> 0:15:42.020 Yeah. 0:15:42.060 --> 0:15:44.119 You know, send him the YouTube video is what you 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:45.060 need to do. Okay. Yeah. 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.020 Watch this. So that was my little- Well, look at. 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.140 You having those conversations out in the real world. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.630 It got deep. I know. And then later when we 0:15:52.670 --> 0:15:53.770 got in the car, I was like, well, what were 0:15:53.790 --> 0:15:55.850 y'all talking about over there? And he was like, cancer. 0:15:56.270 --> 0:15:57.010 Oh my gosh. 0:15:57.030 --> 0:16:02.250 What party were you at? 0:16:02.510 --> 0:16:05.880 People did have some good book recommendations, which we talked 0:16:05.900 --> 0:16:08.800 about books in Tuesday's episode. I feel like this is 0:16:08.820 --> 0:16:09.560 the year of reading. 0:16:09.580 --> 0:16:10.120 Yeah. 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.840 I think the house we were at, the husband's an 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.830 author and there were books everywhere. And that's so cool. 0:16:15.870 --> 0:16:18.630 One of the guys, he- He heard his wife talking 0:16:18.650 --> 0:16:20.750 about a book. He goes, she's probably just talking about 0:16:20.810 --> 0:16:23.670 books because we're at the author's house. And we got 0:16:23.690 --> 0:16:25.190 to look like we read. 0:16:25.580 --> 0:16:27.400 You're like, well, I'm a recent new reader. 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.780 I was like, well, 2026. Oh, and he did. I 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.140 didn't mention this on Tuesday. We were talking about book reads. 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.720 Everyone there was raving about the book Theo of Golden. 0:16:37.780 --> 0:16:39.490 Have you heard of it? Never heard of that. 0:16:39.570 --> 0:16:41.550 So I'm going to add this to my list. But 0:16:41.630 --> 0:16:46.880 Theo of Golden is a 2023 novel. about a mysterious, 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.360 kind-hearted older man named Theo who moves to the fictional 0:16:50.420 --> 0:16:54.320 southern city of Golden, Georgia and anonymously buys pencil portraits 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.729 from a local coffee shop to return to their subject, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.930 sparking stories, friendships, and a ripple effect of generosity. They 0:16:59.970 --> 0:17:01.790 said it was just such a feel. 0:17:01.950 --> 0:17:03.110 Feel good? 0:17:03.150 --> 0:17:05.270 It's like, oh, and I'm like, okay, yeah, I can 0:17:05.290 --> 0:17:06.510 get on board with that. We need more of that 0:17:06.550 --> 0:17:08.760 in this moment in life and time. 0:17:09.030 --> 0:17:10.130 Theo of Golden? 0:17:10.210 --> 0:17:12.179 Theo of Golden. I don't know, but everybody there, and 0:17:12.220 --> 0:17:13.960 I felt like I was in company, were like, they 0:17:13.980 --> 0:17:15.520 know good books. So I was like, yeah. 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.080 Were you like, I've read Beatrice. 0:17:17.100 --> 0:17:17.720 Emily Henry. 0:17:19.980 --> 0:17:24.020 Some good rom-coms. Hey, I got the Nightingale. And then 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.439 I said, well, my next Kristen Hanna book is going 0:17:26.460 --> 0:17:28.030 to be Winter Garden. 0:17:28.310 --> 0:17:31.710 We're like, oh, you read historical fiction. Yeah. I feel 0:17:31.770 --> 0:17:34.690 like when people talk about, I felt this for myself. 0:17:35.270 --> 0:17:39.660 When I say I read like, I love thrillers, psychological thrillers, 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.500 but I can't read them at night anymore because they 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.300 would give me nightmares, which is crazy. Or if I 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.300 say like I'm reading this like romance novel, I feel 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:50.740 different than when I say, well, the book I'm reading 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:53.880 is historical fiction. 0:17:53.940 --> 0:17:54.200 Yeah. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.830 It just feels different, but they're both fiction. 0:17:57.170 --> 0:17:57.410 Yeah. 0:17:57.430 --> 0:17:59.490 Like one shouldn't be better than the other, but it's like, oh, 0:17:59.970 --> 0:18:02.629 it's like I read historical fiction with my glasses on, 0:18:02.670 --> 0:18:05.610 but I read the romance novels without, you know, that's 0:18:05.630 --> 0:18:06.130 how I feel. 0:18:06.850 --> 0:18:08.350 Oh, you're not literal right now? 0:18:08.550 --> 0:18:08.790 No. 0:18:09.030 --> 0:18:12.830 Okay, because I was like, you're making this very difficult 0:18:12.869 --> 0:18:13.390 on yourself. 0:18:13.490 --> 0:18:16.170