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Speaker 1: Hey, this is any and Samantha, I want for stuff

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Speaker 1: I never told you Protection of my Heart Radio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome to another episode where Anie and I have collaborated.

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Speaker 2: So it's gonna be fun and we're talking about friendships

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Speaker 2: because so what else could be more fun than that?

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Speaker 2: Except yes, it is us and it is me who

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Speaker 2: likes to think things a little pessimistically. But that's okay,

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Speaker 2: you guys know already. Ray.

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Speaker 1: Also, just be clear, we do collaborate often, but the

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Speaker 1: way that our outlines works and we usually have one

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Speaker 1: person take the lead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when I say collaborate on this one, we did

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Speaker 2: separate research and then just lapped them together and then

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about it together. Yeah, as opposed

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Speaker 2: to like one thought process, Like we both have different

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Speaker 2: thoughts and different angles that we came in from. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is and it's a lot. It's a lot. So

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Speaker 2: you know what, as we start we I think we've

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Speaker 2: talked a little bit about our meet cute, as I've

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Speaker 2: taught you this word a bit, but I think we

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Speaker 2: should start the show off with how we became such

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Speaker 2: a dynamic duo because we've talked a little about here

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Speaker 2: and there and then like there are pictures that mysteriously

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Speaker 2: popped out later that we're like, oh, we met before.

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Speaker 2: Apparently your boyfriend that I have never met was in

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Speaker 2: the picture somewhere or was around at that point in time.

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Speaker 1: Right, uh huh oh yeah he was my ex boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Yeah, there's a picture of like professional

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Speaker 1: picture was taken at an event where you were working

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Speaker 1: behind the bar and it was like a signs of

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Speaker 1: Beer event and I was there with my then boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: There's a picture of you and I.

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Speaker 2: Am exchanging drinks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And later I was like, oh my god, but.

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Speaker 2: It was actually Caroline previous host who had seen this picture,

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Speaker 2: was like, wait is this so and so? Is this

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Speaker 2: Annie and Samantha and I was like wait wait And

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Speaker 2: this was after we I think we had started the

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Speaker 2: show right when we discovered a picture not the actual picture.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, a lot of this is in part thanks

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Speaker 2: to Caroline, who she and I were close and met

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Speaker 2: through other friends during height girl times of us talking

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Speaker 2: about a dude.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so Caroline I became friends and I figured

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Speaker 2: out that she knew Kristen, who I had known through

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Speaker 2: another great friend of mine from Athens. Who's writing. I've

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Speaker 2: been in. I know their entire family, so it was

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Speaker 2: such a like overlap. But me and you we met

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Speaker 2: through Caroline specifically. The introduction to you was you and

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Speaker 2: old coworker and friend Sarah Uh coming to Carolines she

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Speaker 2: finished her book party. Yeah, essentially, when she had just

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Speaker 2: recently left stuff on the member told you and you

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Speaker 2: were not quite the host yet, but you were working

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Speaker 2: with how stuff works, and we all met. But because

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Speaker 2: I was overwhelmed, I was like, there's too many people here.

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Speaker 2: I guess to go. I have a dog to take

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Speaker 2: care of. Yeah, and that's how you like, That's how

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Speaker 2: you were introduced to me, right, because I barely remember

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Speaker 2: because you walked in. I do remember you walking in

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Speaker 2: because we were on the back porch, yes, and I

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Speaker 2: was trying to make my escape. And I had already

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Speaker 2: been there because I am that person who comes early

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Speaker 2: and leaves early. And you know what, Caroline is the

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Speaker 2: one that taught me that one.

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Speaker 1: Hey, if it works for you, it works for your time.

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Speaker 2: And y'all had come because y'all where y'all been?

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Speaker 1: You and Sarah, Listen, this is completely true. I was

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Speaker 1: walking back from our office at the time, which is

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Speaker 1: not a far walk from where I live. Our mutual

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Speaker 1: friend Sarah pulled up next to me in a car

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Speaker 1: and said get in, and I did, and that's how

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Speaker 1: I ended up there.

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Speaker 2: No idea they came in. The party was already happening,

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Speaker 2: and it got loud, and I was like, I gotta

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Speaker 2: go peace out. I gotta go see my dog, which

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Speaker 2: is what you remember from me, Is that correct? And then,

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Speaker 2: because I had met Sarah through Carolina as well, I

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Speaker 2: was bartending with a beer company here, a local beer

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Speaker 2: brewery here in Atlanta, and y'all, I just popped up

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Speaker 2: and we kind of reminisced about the fact that we

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Speaker 2: were all there on Father's Day, lamenting together and all

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Speaker 2: of the Bad Father tropes and or deaths or things,

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Speaker 2: a lot of tragedy. We really really bonded over trauma

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Speaker 2: and tragedy. And we y'all did the hookup where y'all

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Speaker 2: went and did some touring and I'm like, ah, and

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Speaker 2: he's cool, okay, cool, Why why don't you come hung

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Speaker 2: out with me? And then I had an infamous cheese

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Speaker 2: and wine party because I loved having those. This is

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Speaker 2: all pre pandemic. I think we met in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 2: I think you and my partner came around the same time. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so y'all are like okay, And then at that infamous party,

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Speaker 2: is no, because we had already hung out before when

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Speaker 2: it was announced that you were going to be on

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Speaker 2: the show with Bridget.

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Speaker 1: Yes, oh that's right, we did.

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Speaker 2: We hung out. Yeah, we hung out a victory. I'm

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Speaker 2: giving you all the lowdown. We were hung out at

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Speaker 2: our local restaurant here. Bridget was here in town, so

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Speaker 2: I got to meet her. Bridget kind of forgot that

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Speaker 2: and we all hung out and it was all a

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Speaker 2: beautiful moment. And then you and I kept up with

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Speaker 2: the friendship for a while. I can't remember all the

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Speaker 2: in betweens, but I was like, yeah, I like this girl.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna hang We're gonna be friends. We went to

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Speaker 2: a few festivals here and there.

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Speaker 1: We did karaoke time.

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Speaker 2: We did karaoke. Uh. I a lot of karaoke since then,

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Speaker 2: but we did do karaoke in one of the infamous

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Speaker 2: bars here away a little outside of Atlanta. You'd never been.

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Speaker 2: Was that your first time? Really?

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Speaker 1: That was my first time?

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Speaker 2: I love it. I think a friend also a friend

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Speaker 2: of mine, Dominique was her first time too, and she

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Speaker 2: loved it. I was like, this is amazing, Let's do

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Speaker 2: this. This is when I actually did things, y'all. I stayed

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Speaker 2: out past twelve and then as our friendship grew and

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Speaker 2: that infamous cheese party night came through, you and I

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Speaker 2: sat down and talked about the future of the show.

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Speaker 2: Me feeling really really restless with the whole me Too movement,

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Speaker 2: and people were really upset already as it goes about

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Speaker 2: the word trigger warning, and that opened up into such

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Speaker 2: a conversation that was maybe your therapist a little bit

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Speaker 2: as well. I feel like you need more therapy, more

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Speaker 2: than I can offer. Also, let's do a show. I

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Speaker 2: will say not to say I tricked you, but this

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Speaker 2: wasn't part to be like I need to get this

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Speaker 2: girl in therapy.

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Speaker 1: And you did you listen to our miniseries we did

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Speaker 1: on Trauma.

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Speaker 2: We did mainly because I'm like, girl, you've been through

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Speaker 2: some things and you're not acknowledging how significant these things are.

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Speaker 2: We need to take a moment.

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Speaker 1: The cheese and wine brings it out of me sometimes well.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, because this is also a part

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Speaker 2: of my problem. And we're going to talk about this

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Speaker 2: a little bit as we talk about the layers of

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Speaker 2: friendship and types of friendships there are and women in

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Speaker 2: friendship in general. But like, I cannot do shallow conversations

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Speaker 2: that I am going to hone in, ask you a question,

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Speaker 2: find the things that like obviously are things that are

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Speaker 2: like pretty deep to you, and then we're gonna talk

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can verify that one thousand percent.

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Speaker 2: And then I feel like there are moments and I'm

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Speaker 2: like I need to back off. So for me to

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Speaker 2: back off of me's like we can't talk at all

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Speaker 2: because my mind cannot let that go. And if I

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Speaker 2: am having that conversation with you, if I'm having an

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Speaker 2: in depth conversation, that means I'm investing in you, and

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Speaker 2: that that means that there's something in this relationship that

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Speaker 2: makes me think that we need to be friends.

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Speaker 1: I've always appreciated that about you. I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: like not great, not no, No. I think that, at

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Speaker 1: least in my experience that I include myself in this.

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Speaker 1: I sometimes shy away from tougher topics that because I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say the right thing

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Speaker 1: or I don't know if you want to talk about this,

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Speaker 1: or but I appreciate that you're a genuinely curious person

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Speaker 1: if it's somebody that you do want to invest in,

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Speaker 1: or you're you're interested in learning more about.

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Speaker 2: I say something that I can't let go of. It's

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Speaker 2: because also as a thinker on this level of like,

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Speaker 2: if you give me something and then it doesn't make

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Speaker 2: complete sense, I have to unravel it. We're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to go through this because I'm like, wait, no, wait,

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Speaker 2: what type of And I can't lingering And that's gonna

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Speaker 2: keep me up at night.

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Speaker 1: That's so, Yeah, that's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna need to know, and I'm gonna come back

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Speaker 2: later and ask you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she does follow ups, listeners.

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Speaker 2: I to follow ups. But with all of that, this

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Speaker 2: is the beginning. This is the beginning of our friendship.

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Speaker 2: And you being open and accepting of that really developed

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Speaker 2: into this level learning this. We've talked about this many times.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a podcaster, I'm not a writer. I am

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Speaker 2: not an editor. This is not what I was trained

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Speaker 2: to be. What I'm trained to be is the thinker

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Speaker 2: is a questioner is a person who comes and asks

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Speaker 2: the deep questions and we work through things and we

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Speaker 2: don't necessarily find a solution, but we find a moment

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Speaker 2: of like stability. Like that's what I like to do.

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Speaker 2: So when I don't get that, I get a little anxious.

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Speaker 2: But with that, I also really hone in on like

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Speaker 2: injustices and I want to talk about it to try

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Speaker 2: to unravel at least the reasons and if there's not reasons,

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Speaker 2: at least what we can do to protect ourselves to

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Speaker 2: a certain extent. So this is who I am because

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Speaker 2: you've allowed me to do that. This has felt like

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Speaker 2: an actual like career instead of just a job. So

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Speaker 2: thank you for that.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thank you.

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Speaker 2: And I think also like we do so well in

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Speaker 2: like what're pretty opposites in so.

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Speaker 1: Many ways in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but at the same have we let each other

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Speaker 2: be those opposites that helps us come together, like it

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Speaker 2: fulfills the entire picture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and being supportive and open to okay you

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Speaker 1: want to check about that or okay, well yeah, what

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Speaker 1: should we do next? I think that is really important

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Speaker 1: and it's good to have different viewpoints. I think, just

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Speaker 1: even outside of a job or our career with your

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Speaker 1: friend group.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. I think we traveled really well with that.

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Speaker 2: We've done many a travels.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we have, and we've done well. We've been You're

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Speaker 1: very You're very clear about like I need my rest,

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Speaker 1: I'm leaving and I'll very like have fun.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do my own thing like this is. That's

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Speaker 2: the glory of it all, Like we don't need to

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Speaker 2: be attached. But also I'm gonna support this, and we're

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Speaker 2: gonna go to this these things you want to see,

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Speaker 2: all the things of lest of us. I'm gonna see

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Speaker 2: four of those things, do the rest, and I will

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Speaker 2: happily And I'm like, yes, okay, but yeah, so with that,

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Speaker 2: that is our friendship in a summary. Yeah, there's so

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Speaker 2: much more obviously, and the way we get to teach

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Speaker 2: each other and the way we get to grow with

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Speaker 2: each other, and just talking about like what this podcast

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Speaker 2: has become and how we made it ours and some

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Speaker 2: people love it, some people hate it. We're okay with that.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that we would do with this

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Speaker 2: podcast is talk on a broader subject because we find

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Speaker 2: it interesting and when we look at it from an

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Speaker 2: intersectional ideal, which is so important and I hope doesn't

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Speaker 2: go away. I feel like even with like the atmosphere

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Speaker 2: that is today, like we talked about some of the

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Speaker 2: things that we are fearful of, like this is our careers,

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Speaker 2: this is if something were to happen, if someone were

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Speaker 2: to get mad at us, if someone thinks that, you know,

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Speaker 2: our opinions mean that it's a violation of something somehow

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Speaker 2: that it could go away if the right group or

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Speaker 2: you know, the wrong group. I feel like they have

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Speaker 2: a new agenda. But with that, we find that a

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Speaker 2: privilege to be able to have a conversation about this

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Speaker 2: and talk about things like women in friendship, and that's

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Speaker 2: kind of what we're doing. And you know, as a reminder,

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Speaker 2: I feel like we haven't said this in a while

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Speaker 2: when we say women, woman, all women, Yes, okay, So

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Speaker 2: don't think this is all about just binary gender. We're

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Speaker 2: not about that life. We are talking about intersectionalism and

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Speaker 2: being on a spectrum in many ways, and gender is

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Speaker 2: one of those things. So when we say women, were

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Speaker 2: saying all women, So go go with that. How you

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Speaker 2: watch When we were researching one of the things, I

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Speaker 2: was like, let's just get a basics about friendship. So

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Speaker 2: what are we talking about when we talk about friendships,

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Speaker 2: and one of the first things that popped up is

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Speaker 2: from our friends. Literally that one of the first people

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Speaker 2: who were made Sminty Sminty Molly Edmonds had written this

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Speaker 2: article with another co author for How Stuff Works about friendships,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, well, of course we're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to use this because it's already there for us. And

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Speaker 2: they talk of the complexity of friendships in general. So

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Speaker 2: as simple as that word may be, because I feel

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Speaker 2: like people just automatically assume it's a relationship platonic, non blown,

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Speaker 2: you know, romantic, even it is complex about how to

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Speaker 2: maintain and even keep them and why they're important for everyone.

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Speaker 2: So in their article they interview psychologists doctor Susanne Diggs White,

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Speaker 2: who told them this. She says, true friendships are hallmarked

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Speaker 2: by each member's desire to engage with the other. It's

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Speaker 2: about mutual interest in one another's experience and thoughts, as

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Speaker 2: well as a sense of belongingness and connection. Friendships require

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Speaker 2: reciprocity of admiration, respect, trust, and emotional and instrumental support.

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Speaker 2: I think that's such a great definition because we don't

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Speaker 2: really get into time the conversation about toxic friendships. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because what we would say toxic friendships would be the

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Speaker 2: opposite of all of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would like to come back and do a

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Speaker 1: deeper dive into that though, because I was thinking about that.

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Speaker 1: This research actually brought out a lot for me, and

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Speaker 1: I was telling Samantha, I've reached out to friends that

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Speaker 1: I haven't reached out to in a while because of it.

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Speaker 1: But one of the things I would love to come

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Speaker 1: back and do is the dynamics of a friendship, the

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Speaker 1: kind of power dynamics.

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Speaker 2: We've done an episode about breaking up with friends, right,

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Speaker 2: we have done that.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of I just want to talk about like,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like even in a pretty solid friend group,

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Speaker 1: there are sometimes still the most sort of like.

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Speaker 2: Hierarchies.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, main girl level, not necessarily mean girl, but like

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, well, I mean, like with I don't Regina George's

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Speaker 2: character being the leader of her friend group, yeah type

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Speaker 2: of thing. Yeah, I feel like there's a connection sometimes

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Speaker 2: where they're the central point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And just like we are going to talk

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Speaker 1: about this, I haven't known about this in that line,

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Speaker 1: but kind of that like idea because a lot of

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Speaker 1: times the friendship is they change as you go through life,

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Speaker 1: and it can feel especially for someone like me, who

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have kids, so I'm not gonna get married,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going through a lot of those like touchstones.

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Speaker 1: It can kind of feel like in some instances, I

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Speaker 1: don't have a lot of the power in that case,

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Speaker 1: but in other instances, I feel like I kind of

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Speaker 1: do so right, it's just interesting. It's just something I've

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Speaker 1: been thinking about.

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Speaker 2: So I would think you are the leader and the

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Speaker 2: powerful one when it comes to when we go to

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Speaker 2: Dragon Con or when we go to events like Bess,

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Speaker 2: if I go to Disney World with you, you were

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Speaker 2: in charge. You are the woman in charge. But like

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Speaker 2: setting up dates with people who are getting married or

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Speaker 2: have children, they are the ones that have to be like, yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 1: Free these times.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I see what you're saying. I see what

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Speaker 2: I see what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems interesting, but.

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Speaker 2: We will come back and we do address a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but not completely. You're right, and yeah, and back to

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Speaker 2: that article. They go even deeper, classifying specific types of friendships,

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Speaker 2: so not necessarily diameodamics, but types including acquaintances, friends, close friends,

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Speaker 2: and best friends. So they kind of have this like

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Speaker 2: pyramid and this is where it goes from the bottom up.

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Speaker 2: And though I would have thought close friends and best

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Speaker 2: friends were pretty much the same, but the difference lies

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Speaker 2: in the depth of best friend marker type of thing

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Speaker 2: where best friends don't even need to speak to each

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Speaker 2: other and can pick up where they left off. Like

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Speaker 2: I've all maybe this is my childhood ideal, but like

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Speaker 2: the best friend is like you talked to them every

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Speaker 2: day and you must call on the phone in any

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Speaker 2: of the events. But you know that's not necessarily true.

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Speaker 2: And I will say I feel like that's the only

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Speaker 2: type of friendships I have because I am an introvert.

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Speaker 2: So you might not hear from me for weeks or

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Speaker 2: two weeks or four weeks or six months, but when

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Speaker 2: we come back, we talk as we've never stopped talking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a lot of friends like that, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's a It makes sense because people have

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Speaker 1: their own lives, they're doing their own things. You're doing

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Speaker 1: your own thing, and it's really nice when you get

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Speaker 1: to see each other and it just feels like you're

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Speaker 1: picking up right back where you're left off.

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Speaker 2: Right and it is lovely and then for women there

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Speaker 2: seems to be very specifics that honestly makes sense to me,

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Speaker 2: Like women look for emotional bond and support, so a

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Speaker 2: little bit different on how what they classify what they

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Speaker 2: need in a relationship and a friendship, so they need

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Speaker 2: that death that level of relationships. For me, I do

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Speaker 2: that too, like if I need it's rare that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to ever tell you I need something, But if

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Speaker 2: I do, that means if you let me down, it's

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Speaker 2: hard to come back from that for me, Like you

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Speaker 2: might not ruin it, and I'll always be there for you,

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Speaker 2: but in the back of my head, I'll know, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they didn't pick up on them. And then like that

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Speaker 2: equal reciprocity, the give and take that is similar to yours.

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Speaker 2: That took me a long time to learn and I

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Speaker 2: didn't realize how important that was until after college.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and part of that too is like I

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Speaker 1: know we've talked about this and it's different between some

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Speaker 1: of my other friends, but there can be this feeling

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Speaker 1: of you did this for me, x y Z, I

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Speaker 1: have to do the same for you, which is not

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Speaker 1: always true, Like sometimes that it's the x y Z

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Speaker 1: same for you, doesn't have to be the exact same thing.

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Speaker 1: It can be something that means more to them than like, say,

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Speaker 1: if I have a lot of friends who love to

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Speaker 1: give gifts but don't necessarily love getting them, but I

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Speaker 1: can find a way to, like, I know what they like,

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Speaker 1: and I can make something that is reciprocal but not

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Speaker 1: the exact same right, right, But it's kind of that

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Speaker 1: Karen attention that matters. It's like, I'm giving you the

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Speaker 1: same time and Karen attention right that you give me.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think I think one of the big things,

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Speaker 2: like in college, I would be there. I would spend

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Speaker 2: money on people, I would go out for people. If

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Speaker 2: they told me they needed this, I'd be there for people.

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Speaker 2: Like all of these things help you move, help you

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Speaker 2: do these things. And then I realized they didn't do

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Speaker 2: the same for me. They obviously don't hold me in

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Speaker 2: the same regard. Hmmmmmm. And it's like at this point

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Speaker 2: I want the friends that I know has my back

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Speaker 2: as much as I have theirs. And life's too short.

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Speaker 2: We don't all have to be friends, yes, and we

383
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Speaker 2: can let this go, and I will let that go.

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Speaker 2: I've gotten really good at letting go. As of the

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Speaker 2: last ten years, I'm like, yeah, I'm good, no, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's a good or bad thing, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Also a mutual self disclosure or the more that you

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Speaker 2: share and you discover about each other, you trust each

389
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Speaker 2: other more, you know, not saying it's completely about gossip,

390
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Speaker 2: because not gossip is not wonderful all the time, but

391
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Speaker 2: like there's this level of trust of like, oh you

392
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Speaker 2: think that's okay, kind of like the inside joke and

393
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Speaker 2: understanding your sense of humor, like, oh, I can trust

394
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Speaker 2: you in this. Being racist is not the thing that

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Speaker 2: I'm not talking about that if you're racist and you're

396
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Speaker 2: being racist with your racist friends, you know that you're

397
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Speaker 2: not gonna be my friend. But this level of like

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Speaker 2: understanding and valuing each other or getting advice from each other,

399
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Speaker 2: being able to like really know that you can trust

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Speaker 2: one another. And again, like you give just as much

401
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Speaker 2: as I give. I'm not giving you all my secrets

402
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 2: and you're not giving m all right, you're telling me things,

403
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: tell me about your life. Maybe that's what maybe that's

404
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 2: what it is about me, and they get to know you,

405
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 2: like I need to know, I need to know who

406
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Speaker 2: you are. Moving back and this is something author Danielle

407
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: Bayard Jackson's base on in her book as well as

408
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,959
Speaker 2: CNN when it comes to like female friends in general,

409
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Speaker 2: so she says this people are most so women need

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Speaker 2: to know that there is trust and support and long

411
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Speaker 2: lasting friendships and something that happens naturally, so inable to

412
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Speaker 2: like actually be able to have a true and long

413
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Speaker 2: lasting relationship. It's not forcing you to divult secrets. This

414
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Speaker 2: is not the Masons. We're not making you write down

415
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Speaker 2: yere secrets and promises. Which, by the way, I just

416
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 2: went down a rabbit hole about Masons. I wondered if

417
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Speaker 2: they were part of the white nationally this in terms

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Speaker 2: of our Christians don't like Mason's side note, sorry, but like,

419
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Speaker 2: but the fact that we it does happen naturally. It

420
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 2: comes in a conversation, whether it's like you bonding over

421
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: the fact that your dad's dead. I'm so sorry, that's

422
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Speaker 2: not funny, but it's true.

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Speaker 1: Hey, it's true.

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Speaker 2: It's true. My dad is not dead. Just so you know.

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Speaker 2: But we were having a moment where like us not

426
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Speaker 2: having not want to spend time with our fathers because

427
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Speaker 2: of disagreements and or death, did have a moment of like,

428
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Speaker 2: let's have this conversation and I know, like people who

429
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 2: have lost people in their lives and have been able

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Speaker 2: to heal a little bit. And he says, if we'll

431
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 2: talk about like Dead Dad Club, Like I've heard that

432
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Speaker 2: as a reference in Dead Mom Club. Like all of

433
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Speaker 2: these things have been something that people have bonded over.

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Speaker 2: It kind of just natural and in the friendship may

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Speaker 2: form from that. I know for me, some of the

436
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: people that I worked with, including you any but like

437
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 2: when I was in social work going through really hard times,

438
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 2: we bonded over that. We bonded over the fact that

439
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 2: was really bad and our mental health were not good.

440
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,400
Speaker 2: It's dark, but it helps you know. And again, men

441
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 2: apparently are a bit different. They're less talkative. It's not

442
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: about emotional support. It's more about activity with their counterparts.

443
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 2: But again with some opposite sex though, So when a

444
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 2: man is friends with women or whatever whatnot, they're more

445
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 2: likely to share their feelings and more likely than't have

446
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: that emotional support that they need. That might be an

447
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 2: important thing because they don't feel like they can say

448
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 2: it to other men, but they can talk about it

449
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: with other women.

450
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to say, I feel like this has

451
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: been my experience. In a lot of cases.

452
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: We do.

453
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: I'm happy to be your friend and listen to you,

454
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: but sometimes I'm like, I really wish you didn't feel

455
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 1: like we don't know each other that well, yeah, I

456
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: wish there was someone else that.

457
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,159
Speaker 2: And then it gets messy when you start having a partner,

458
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 2: Like if you have a romantic partner and you're you're

459
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: always that emotional support, which we're kind of going to

460
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 2: talk to you about a little bit, but like that's

461
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: gets messy and you know you can't be that for

462
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 2: that person anymore. So that's why the change in friendship

463
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 2: goes away. And that's the question about like can men

464
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 2: and women be friends, which we are going to get

465
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: into in a bit. And so for some more breakdowns

466
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: of stage and types of friendships. Social science libreate techs

467
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 2: actually has some different types of stages for us about

468
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 2: in friendship. Specifically, one of them is roll delimited interaction.

469
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: So you think that's the first stage. You're in the

470
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: same class or you work together, so it's an acquaintance

471
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 2: now and you kind of have this now common ground

472
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,719
Speaker 2: that you are in the same situation, and you may

473
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: or may not take that outside of the space maybe

474
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: and you never talk about anything outside of that. I

475
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,239
Speaker 2: have zoomba friends like this as we talk about the

476
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 2: immediate you know, oh, we had danced together, how are

477
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: you the superficial conversations that I'm like, I'm good with this.

478
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 2: You could update me while we're here. The next one

479
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: is the friendly relation. So you're still work involved, but

480
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 2: maybe you are having a deeper conversation there, or you're

481
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: purposely having more conversation and reaching, like finding each other

482
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,880
Speaker 2: out in that class at work to find out how

483
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: something happened or whatever whatnot, you're talking more about the project.

484
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: This is kind of like my example. I don't know why,

485
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 2: but Courtney and who's been on the show before, whom

486
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 2: I love, one of my coworkers from the Department of

487
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 2: Juvenile Justice. She and I quickly became friends and she

488
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 2: is one of the most guarded people you'll ever meet.

489
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: I am not as much, but she is definitely, And

490
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: we kind of really came together because we were out

491
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 2: in the field together, had to be trained. The way

492
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 2: our job worked at the time was we traveled all

493
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: over the state of Georgia doing different kinds of reviews

494
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: and had to go through inspection with different places, and

495
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: we were being trained, and she and I decided to

496
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: go to lunch together because we had to, Like there

497
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: was really like either we're gonna start or we go

498
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: get lunch. And we were in a small town and

499
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 2: both of us were people of color. We're like, we're

500
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 2: not going in here by ourselves, what the hell? And

501
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: we bonded over that. So it was kind of like that, okay,

502
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,479
Speaker 2: friendly relations stepping a little bit outside of getting to

503
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 2: know maybe we can be friends. That moves towards friendships

504
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 2: so well you actually do take things out. So she

505
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 2: and I started kind of like, hey, let's go meet

506
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: up here. Hey, let's go do this after the fact,

507
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: let's go to this, And we started talking more and

508
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: more like all right, I like you, we got we

509
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 2: got things in common. That goes into the Nacian friendship,

510
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 2: which start developing new norms, so like you do do things,

511
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 2: you do do traditions together, you do things outside of this.

512
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 2: It's not about work anymore. You have friendships outside of work.

513
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: Now now you get to be looping and then you

514
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 2: have stabilized friendships, which is the strengthening part, like you

515
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 2: really know each other, you get to know your friend's friends.

516
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: You're really secure about that you're watering and growing this friendship.

517
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 2: I have so many metaphors apparently for friendship any but like, yeah,

518
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: I get to meet your people and you get to

519
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: meet my people, and maybe our people can all be friends,

520
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 2: and there's no insecurity of be like I'm going to

521
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: be left out. I don't know what's going on. I

522
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 2: don't know what they're talking about. Like you can be

523
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,959
Speaker 2: friends and maybe that can be friends, which makes our

524
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: friendship grow even stronger. Yeah, no, okay, And then sometimes

525
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: there comes the after, because it can be an after

526
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: an ending, and that's the waning of friendships here less

527
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: we have less impact on relationships towards an end or

528
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: just just less in general, Like you become kind of

529
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 2: go back to being an acquaintance. I'll tell you happy birthday,

530
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 2: I'll see how you're doing every now and again. And

531
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: there are several reasons for this. It includes physical distance,

532
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 2: no more common interests or that common interest is kind

533
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: of gone or no longer relevant, and even conflicts which

534
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 2: I feel like the political atmosphere has really caused a

535
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: lot of indifferendships yep, or on that later. Yeah, They

536
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: also reported that so these things can be gendered, so

537
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: they write this interestingly. Females and males in the study

538
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: did report differences in the likelihood that these five reasons

539
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: led to deterioration. Females reported that conflict was a greater

540
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: reason for friendship deterioration than males, and males reporting not

541
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: having many common interests was a greater reason for friendships

542
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: deterioration than females. I feel like men are more forgiving

543
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 2: in that route.

544
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: It could be that. I wonder if it's also though

545
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: they don't talk as much about true things that matter. Well,

546
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to say that, but like maybe women

547
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 1: are having those like I'm sharing secrets with you, are right,

548
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: like my life and myself and all this, and so

549
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: it hurts more when you have that conflict.

550
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, you're right, because it says women make

551
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: friends based on emotional, emotional and support, as are men.

552
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 2: Men made friends made of like activity. So those were

553
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: different for sure. So that means that, yeah, that would

554
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 2: be if you're not activity is no longer aligned. Would

555
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 2: you be friends if that's the main reason that you

556
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: be friends. So you know, yeah, that's common sense that

557
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 2: I didn't put together till just now, thank you for that.

558
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: Again, collaboration coming together.

559
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 2: And somewhere along the lines, I also wanted to talk

560
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: about like the best friends forever type of conversation. Yeah,

561
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: but as in most things, sometimes friendships do come to

562
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: an end. And we often see this with the childhood

563
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: friendships that don't last into adulthood and some of the

564
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: things that happen specifically, and this is from Highland Center

565
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: for Healing dot com who talks about friendships. A lot

566
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: of therapeut peutic sites were like, hey, let me help

567
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: you through this friendship breakup. But they say, this is

568
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: some of the reasons that this happens. One maybe shifting priorities,

569
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: so as you grow older, whether it's your interests. So

570
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: like I had friends who were really in the tennis.

571
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: Guess who was not me. I was a drama nerd

572
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 2: and so you know, and with that also I had

573
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: to get a job, and they kept doing activities. They

574
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: were able to bond more than myself because I was

575
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: doing a completely different activity. So and money I was

576
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: important because I needed a gar No one was buying

577
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: me a car. Geography, Man, this does hurt a little bit,

578
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 2: it does. It hurts my feelings. Why'd you have to move.

579
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: Yep?

580
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh then changing social circles again, that's that whole level.

581
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: Like and not that say that people are popular verses,

582
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 2: but like we had definitely people who are friends with

583
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: went into band and band became their life. In the

584
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: drama like like when things happened things shift, was that

585
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 2: you any was banned your life?

586
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: It's no, but it just makes me laugh. I know

587
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 1: we've talked about this before, but in my experience, band

588
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: in my school was like the thing people made fun of.

589
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: And I've learned from you it was like the thing.

590
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: So like previously, yes, previously people would could be made

591
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: fun of, but like they were such a big entourage

592
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: of band people that they outdid all the other groups,

593
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: so there was no bullying that.

594
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: Okay, it's just every time I hear you talk about it,

595
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, that was not my experience.

596
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: But ye, well, and our people were like you know,

597
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: you know, like even my niece was bend leader. That

598
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 2: was a big deal. Oh yeah, and she they they

599
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,959
Speaker 2: got led to, you know, doing the terrades in New

600
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: York because they won championships upon championships when that's the

601
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 2: only championships that occur in your school. You're not going

602
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: to be low in the tone poll.

603
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

604
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: That's true, Like I'm just saying it. And then there's

605
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: connections just change. Your connections are no longer what it

606
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: is it used to be, but no longer is tech

607
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: could actually be a reason that you lose connections, that

608
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 2: you lose friendships. I know you would think more, but

609
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: whether it's like things that you see, things that you

610
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 2: post and I've seen this and it has made me

611
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: lose friends.

612
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: Yes, oh yeah, and we also are going to talk

613
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: about that more. But it is it's a double edged sword,

614
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: the technology part, because it's it allows you to keep

615
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: in touch more with people, even who are close to you,

616
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: but especially the people who are far But also it

617
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: does allow you to see more than maybe you might

618
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: have and you're like, okay, no, I don't okay.

619
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 2: I see what you liked that was not cute?

620
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: Never mind all right.

621
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: And then there's also like just self awareness and growth.

622
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: You realize you're two separate people and this is very

623
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: different and what you like versus what they like it

624
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: is no longer it is what it is that's happened

625
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: to feel like outside of college right outside of college.

626
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: I realized, Mmmm, nah, I think this was just because

627
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: we were at Uga together or whatever college you were

628
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: it together. And then of course live transitions and all

629
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: life sucks. We're just good and it changes friendships. Yes,

630
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: it does, you know, but with all of that, because

631
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 2: I feel like as child you could lose friends. It

632
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 2: is still painful, but it were more likely to make

633
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: friends than adulthood. But is there actually a difference between

634
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 2: making friends as an adult versus as children?

635
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 1: Any Yes, there is, and we will go through some

636
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: of it relates to what you were just talking about.

637
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: This has been the subject of a lot of conversation

638
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: recent years, especially around the difficulty of making and keeping

639
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: friendships as an adult, especially close friendships. Because you and

640
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: I talked about this, I'm actually really good at making friends,

641
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: not necessarily close friends, but I can make a friend.

642
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:56,440
Speaker 1: I also found a really snarky reddit so I've read

643
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: it that was like, it's not hard. Why are we

644
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: talking about it? I know. I was like, Okay, do

645
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: you have friends? Because I will question Yeah, me too.

646
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: There are a lot of reasons for why it is

647
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: harder as an adult to make friends. For one, there

648
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: are a lot more responsibilities demanding your time. For most adults,

649
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 1: a job, maybe a spouse, maybe kids, maybe an ailing

650
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: family member, bills to pay, different schedules to balance my goodness,

651
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: And honestly, people might just be tired. And friendships do

652
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: take time and intent, and if you don't have that

653
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 1: time and intent, it's just not going to last or

654
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 1: not going to be very serious or close friendship. And yeah,

655
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: we do as we get older, a lot of us

656
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: do intentionally cut down unintentionally or intentionally cut down on

657
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: our number of close friends. We categorize friendships into passive

658
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: which would be like I see you at the office

659
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: and that's it. You're a pleasant person, but we're not

660
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: going beyond that, versus active friendships with there are the

661
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: ones that you are working to maintain. Author mel Robbins

662
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 1: has spoken extensively about the difficulty of making and keeping

663
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: new friends as an adult and even as a three

664
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: pillar theory as to why, and she explains that around

665
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: twenty we go through a pretty big life transition. Previously

666
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 1: we were generally surrounded by people our age doing similar

667
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: things with similar schedules. After that, things can really shift.

668
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: People move away, they change priorities, change someone you once

669
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: had so much in common with as a kid, is

670
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: now someone you might struggle to relate to because your

671
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 1: experiences are so different and perhaps your values too. It

672
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 1: can be very sad and painful. I did lose a

673
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: lot of friends as a kid, and then yep, when

674
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: I went to college. Yeah, and I remember just stopping

675
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: because you have that realization of, like, I'm probably never

676
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: going to see this person again. And we were so close.

677
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: When I was in China, I had this really close

678
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: friend group, and I just we're not I'll try, but

679
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: we're it's not gonna be this again. It's not going

680
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: to be this again. We're going our separate rays and

681
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: you recognize it. That's part of life, but it is

682
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: sad part of life.

683
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. I remember in like sixth grade. By

684
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 2: this point I had lost four of my best friends,

685
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: like and they were truly my best friends. And one

686
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 2: of them was really traumatic fashion and the friend that

687
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: I had all the way through high school and college

688
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 2: and almost in adulthood for the most part, and then

689
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 2: things fail apart. I made her promise that she wouldn't

690
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 2: leave me because it was soum and I just bald.

691
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: I just remember that moment like, please tell me if

692
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: you're going to be my friend, promise me you're not

693
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 2: gonna leave me. She kept that promise. Things fell apart later,

694
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,160
Speaker 2: but you know, for this remainder of school, we were great.

695
00:36:45,960 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it does hurt. It's really painful. But okay.

696
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: So what are the three pillars that Robin's describe for

697
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: making keeping friends as an adult. It's kind of what

698
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: you were talking about, Samantha. Proximity, timing, and energy. When

699
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: it comes to proximity, she cites research that concluded it

700
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: takes fifty hours to become a casual frint and two

701
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: hundred hours to become a close friend. If you aren't

702
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: physically close to each other, it's hard to put in

703
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: that amount of time. On top of that, being physically

704
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: close to people can be critical to making new friends.

705
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: So like when you're switching jobs, or you're moving, or

706
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: you're starting a new class, that can be really important.

707
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: Timing involves priorities and schedules. If those don't align, that

708
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: timing might not work out for that friendship. Energy has

709
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: to do with how you vibe with somewhat. It's not

710
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: necessarily I'm tired, I don't have energy It's kind of like,

711
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: is your energy matching mine? Is it a supportive, nurturing friendship.

712
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: Robin's also says that friendships can change and go quiet

713
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: and then come back. I certainly have a lot of

714
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: friends like this, so that makes complete sense me. In

715
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: Robin's words, let them live their lives, let them change,

716
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: let them meet new friends, let them not invite you,

717
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: let them go quiet, and let them come back. Sometimes

718
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 1: people are just in different parts of their life and

719
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: hopefully you kind of reconnect later. So then how do

720
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: we make friends? If it's something you want, Robbins advises,

721
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: you do it intentionally, taking action instead of waiting for

722
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 1: it to happen. A lot of people are kind of like,

723
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: almost like in a romantic sense, all when I meet

724
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: the right person, I'll know. But Robin's is like, no,

725
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: you've got to get out there and intentionally cultivate a friendship,

726
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: being consistent, finding people on the same general stage of

727
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: life or with similar interests. And that's what I used

728
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,840
Speaker 1: to tell people is I don't know how great of

729
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: advice this is, but finds it like a similar like

730
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: if you are into an activity, go do a class

731
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: of that activity at the very least you'll meet people

732
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: who are you share that with.

733
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: You know, this is also part of like horror movies too.

734
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: Oh do what do you think? I don't know.

735
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 2: That's I had to put that in here somewhere. Okay,

736
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 2: keep going.

737
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm also a note. We're not really going to

738
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 1: go into this, but social anxiety can absolutely impact everything

739
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about. So I'm making your face. Yeah, that

740
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: advice of like go out and take a class for

741
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: not everybody that is going to be an easy thing

742
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: that they can do.

743
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: I feel like the older you get, the harder it

744
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 2: gets mm hmmm, because it feels like there's some of

745
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: those activities that you love. Your age may seem like

746
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be doing this.

747
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, I think about that all the time.

748
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 1: I think that that was Jack and Conn. I'm like,

749
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: should I still be cousplaying as a character. I don't know.

750
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 2: There's a hip hop class that I was like, oh,

751
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 2: it's for beginners, just for adults of them, Like, but

752
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 2: all these kids, they all look like twenties, and they'll

753
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: be like this old woman coming in. They're gonna if

754
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: they think I'm good, I'm gonna be the token old

755
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 2: person that they highlight to be like, see, she can

756
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: do it, so can you, you know, like extra special

757
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 2: treatment because you're old. I'm Micha Well damn, yeah, I

758
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 2: know what you're talking about as a loss of fear.

759
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get you don't get to that. Uh.

760
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: I love all that because yes, like there's so much

761
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: to the science, because it's not been until recently that

762
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: they've actually decided they wanted to study friendship. And I

763
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 2: think it may have something to do with like the

764
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: conversation about loneliness epidemic, which we're going to talk very

765
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 2: slightly about later, but like people understanding it is hard

766
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: and it should be acknowledged that not everyone can do this,

767
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 2: not being friends with someone can do this, and whether

768
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 2: it's again like my own thing about like I need

769
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: depth if we don't have depth in our friendship and

770
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: also sense of humor, yes, but like both of those

771
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,240
Speaker 2: things are very important for me to have a friendship

772
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: with you, Like you can you understand my sense of humor?

773
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: Can I understand your sense of humor? Can you go

774
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: deep with me in like this conversation and be able

775
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 2: to like work through some really traumatic feels, whether it's

776
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,959
Speaker 2: about the world, the country, or ourselves, but then also

777
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: come out with it like and joke about it.

778
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 1: Still. Yeah, and we didn't even get in to this.

779
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: I think we've talked about it in previous episodes, but

780
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 1: there have been studies about the positive measurable health impacts

781
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: of friendship beneficial yees. So it is something that is

782
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: not frivolous. It is something that is really important and

783
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: does impact your health.

784
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 2: It does mm hmm. It's like one of the things

785
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 2: that it does agree upon. And then we're going again

786
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: get into this bit about like the whole male loneliness

787
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 2: epidemic is it is actually killing men and not the

788
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: way you would think. It's not because you know, but

789
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 2: because of the loneliness, rather because they are so unwilling

790
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: to see that it needs to be a thing, that

791
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: friendship should be a thing. Ooh yeah, moving on, sorry,

792
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 2: but with that, speaking of men, can men and women

793
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 2: be friends? Annie, We've talked about this a few times.

794
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: Ah, we talked about it in our when Harry met Sally.

795
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: Is that it?

796
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 2: And you know what that is one of the biggest

797
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: references for everyone's conversation in this topic. There, that is

798
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 2: the reference that people point to being like but they

799
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: can't y'all. Every single reference when we were looking at

800
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: this up was like the Harrie met Sally trope can

801
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 2: you be friends? And again there is that little like

802
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,479
Speaker 2: we just talked about before, by that what men see

803
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 2: as value of friendship or how to make friends with

804
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 2: specific genders. That is a conversation and again that's a

805
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 2: patriarchy in itself and why we need to break that

806
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 2: down and misogyny and all these things. That's what's really

807
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: killing men. Hello, I said it out loud, But with

808
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 2: that in this conversation, like in society, can they be friends?

809
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:48,240
Speaker 2: Can this be true for adults because of course it's children, yes,

810
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: But also there's still this layer of like gendered sexualization

811
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: on specific like specific young girls that it's like, oh,

812
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: is that your boyfriend? And they can't be friends? Like

813
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: they're being taught at like at a young age that

814
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 2: if you are with the opposite sex in any shape

815
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: or form, then that means that shirres your little boyfriend,

816
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 2: not your friend, a little boyfriend. And then I love

817
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 2: the kids who are like, no, that's my friend, get

818
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: it together. Those are my favorite kids, by the way.

819
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 2: But also like we have references like Mike Pence that

820
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 2: came up a couple of times about him saying that

821
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: he will never go uh to dinner alone or lunch

822
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 2: alone with a woman because that's disrespectful to his wife.

823
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 2: To mama, he calls mama, which is mother, isn't it?

824
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 2: Is it mother? I'm sorry, I was trying to make.

825
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: It care.

826
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Grandma's But yeah, that's that question of like can

827
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: they actually be friends? That's a few articles. It's like

828
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: Berkeley actually talks about this as i'd call an article

829
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: as well, talking about whether or not it can be

830
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: and that she in this article is from like the

831
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 2: Los Angeles Tribunes, and a journalist wrote about her platonic

832
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 2: friendships with men she's known from childhood and what worked

833
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: and all of these things about how, yes, these are okay,

834
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 2: but it doesn't seem right, like having friends as a

835
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,359
Speaker 2: child that are men or younger or I guess even

836
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 2: pre husband is okay, but after the fact it's not okay.

837
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 2: And I I get that, and I don't get that.

838
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: So there is this level as a person who has

839
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: been in a partnership for now seven years with assismel,

840
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: like there is that conversation of like, all right, I

841
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: don't want them to feel insecure? So how do I

842
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: make this happen? And things like iHeart. When I started working,

843
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: I made friends with a lot of dudes because we

844
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: have like our producer was a dude, like all these things.

845
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 2: But with that, it was on that same level that

846
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: she should be able to be friends with my partner.

847
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: So I get this. There's just like moment of like,

848
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: But is that because the patriarchy has set up so

849
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 2: much that you have to be careful. I have to

850
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 2: be careful as a woman to not be accused of

851
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 2: that type of interest.

852
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, we've talked about this before. I've

853
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: joked the friend made up a business card for me

854
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: that said she's not flirting, she's just nice. That is

855
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: another unfortunate thing of the patriarchy that kind of relates

856
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: to what we're talking about, where men have these conversations

857
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 1: with women they wouldn't have with men, and then they

858
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: think it's like, oh, she really gets me, which I might,

859
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean I'm romantically into you, right. But

860
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: I saw that too when I was running into a

861
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: lot of research about like once you get married, it

862
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: drops off the kind of friendship with someone of the

863
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: opposite sex drops off. And we've talked about this before.

864
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: I've become extremely wary of this because I trusted, oh,

865
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,320
Speaker 1: you're in a stable relationship, oh you're married, or whatever

866
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: it is, and then it turns out that was not

867
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: the safe zone I thought that it was. So it's

868
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: really frustrating because I would like to live in a

869
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 1: world where I have plenty of male friends that I think,

870
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: you know, we're not that's not what's happening. But I've

871
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: become so weary because it's happened that I'm like, I'm

872
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: gonna I'm just gonna back off and let you instigate everything.

873
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna instigate anything.

874
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: And that is definitely a conversation because I'm like you

875
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 2: when I was single, I mean even now, like I,

876
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: I would think you're safe because you're in a relationship,

877
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 2: you're married. Why would you be interested in me? You

878
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: have a wonderful wife or you have a wonderful partner,

879
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: Like I don't understand, and then be shocked when things

880
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 2: would happen and be like what what is what is this?

881
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 2: What is this? Why is this the thing? And because

882
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 2: I was shocked because I was so unprepared and really

883
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 2: didn't think that was a possibility, Like I would be

884
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: flummox you know what I mean, and not respond the

885
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 2: way it should be, Like I should respond be like, well,

886
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: this is all and also like if you're friends with them,

887
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: And then also comes to the point like when I

888
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: was younger and friends with like we were all single,

889
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: I had a good, like good mix of male and

890
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 2: female friends, like we all came together, women and men,

891
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 2: and when those men would start relationships, I had to

892
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 2: back off. It made me very sad, and not because

893
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: I didn't think that they trusted them, but because I

894
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,760
Speaker 2: understood again, as we talked about like when it comes

895
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 2: to it seems men and women and men actually allow

896
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 2: for women to be a support system for them, as

897
00:47:55,680 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 2: in friends that you know, steps into a boundary of like, okay,

898
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 2: are you having an emotional affair? How where are we

899
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: on this line?

900
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've definitely I have found myself regretting looking back

901
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: where I'm like, I think that was an emotional affair

902
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 1: and I feel horrible about it. I think realize that's

903
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: what was going on, right, And I've told you this before,

904
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: this is like the silliest thing. But one time I

905
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: was like I'm asexual, as if that means I can't

906
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:30,840
Speaker 1: do anything.

907
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,760
Speaker 2: That says you can't have an emotional affair. That probably

908
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 2: was the best way to have an affair with you,

909
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 2: not that you were doing that. I'm just saying, yeah,

910
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 2: but all those things are so hard. But the thing is,

911
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: it's also really big research. So the Economist wrote about

912
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 2: this about how important it is to having intergroup relationships.

913
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: So it talks about the innergroup contact theory that the

914
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 2: more you are desensitized to that level of sexualization and

915
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 2: misogynic patriarchy, that you can have friends and it helps

916
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 2: you grow even better and also teaches you about things

917
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 2: like the patriarchy and why it's bad, and it helps

918
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: like decipher through your past codes that really had a

919
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: lot of biases when you start like, oh, oh, like

920
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 2: I see a lot of men who don't understand some

921
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 2: of these ideals until they have girlfriends or they have daughters,

922
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: or they have you know, like that type of level.

923
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 2: But if you can go ahead and get that early

924
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: by having empathy and having someone you care about that

925
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: might be an underlying victim in some of these things,

926
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,799
Speaker 2: it really does open up for an individual to learn

927
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: this kind of compassion that we are severely lacking as

928
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 2: a society, that this ideal that this contact really does

929
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: bring in a positive interaction and then also lessons the prejudice.

930
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 2: So this is what it says. Specifically, the idea that

931
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 2: positive interactions between different groups can reduce the prejudice they

932
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 2: feel about one another. It has usually been applied to

933
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: ethnic or religious groups, may work for men and women.

934
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 2: So they're talking specifically about like these inner groups that

935
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 2: if we have more of that, if we actually allow

936
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: for true friendship and we're not talking about sexual relationships

937
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 2: that we're talking about friendships, that really does help lessen

938
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 2: the prejudice that is oftentimes there, the sexism, the misogyny,

939
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 2: the abuse in general in understanding that when we have

940
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,919
Speaker 2: compassion for that, that that really opens up so much

941
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: more so something that we desperately need is really being

942
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 2: stifled by the patriarchy and misogyny. That is overwhelming.

943
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of listeners can relate.

944
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: I have a lot of men in my life that

945
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,919
Speaker 1: I have gone through this and continue to go through

946
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: this farm Like, no, what you're saying you really need

947
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: to learn or listen to me, or because you're not.

948
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: What you're saying is not accurate. It does not reflect

949
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,280
Speaker 1: the experience of women, and they have, to their credit,

950
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 1: most of the men I'm talking about have grown.

951
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 2: Understand M'm trying to understand. I think that's what we're

952
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: also seeing when it comes to like immigration stuff. Right now,

953
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,680
Speaker 2: more and more people us they're being affected.

954
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: They're like, oh, yeah, this is the yeah, the find

955
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 3: out stage, but like understanding that had this been a thing,

956
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 3: had we been more open.

957
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: And being with different groups of people and being in

958
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 2: different communities and seeing it from a different point of view,

959
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 2: what could happen in that inner group concept there? Man,

960
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: I feel like it's too late, but it's not. It's

961
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: not young kids. But can you be friends with an ex?

962
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 2: You know how feelings?

963
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: Annie? I know you do?

964
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 2: I know you know I have feelings And it kind

965
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: of goes back and forth in this level. So are

966
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: you do you consider yourself still friends with your ex?

967
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: I consider myself an acquaintance with one and a friend

968
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: with one. The rest of them I never talked to.

969
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 2: So okay, okay, so percentage wise, how many? What percentage

970
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 2: of Yeah? I want I need I need a specifics here.

971
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: Okay, let me think, oh my gosh, this is complicated

972
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: because you know, I get asked on oopsie dates all

973
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: the time.

974
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: No, so say X, we're literal relationship, like you have

975
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 2: the step relationship. Yes, not just an accidental one time

976
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 2: date okay, or four time date for you.

977
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 1: Oh no, I think it's seven or eight to be

978
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: out of Oh that's my total. That's all of that,

979
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 1: two out of eight.

980
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 2: Okay. So we're saying what twenty rate success rate of friendship?

981
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: I hold at like zero point one percent. But I

982
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 2: haven't had too many relationships Okay, so actually probably higher

983
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:24,680
Speaker 2: percentage wise, to be fair, I feel like I had

984
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 2: to do my number and you're so no, because I'm not,

985
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: like I've told you, like my like most serious relationship

986
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 2: is my current relationship. So yeah, but like the two before,

987
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 2: so I've had three and I'm friends with one now ish,

988
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 2: I'm acquaintances with one ish mm hmm. Okay, so thirty

989
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 2: three percentage My percentage is higher. Math is fun, No,

990
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 2: it is not. So. This was a study that Rebecca

991
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 2: Griffith did and told Live Science essentially that said that

992
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 2: it's a very pervasive phenomenon the friendships and that sixty

993
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 2: percent of people remain friends after a romantic split, so

994
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 2: that's pretty high. Now I think we're paying to split.

995
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,080
Speaker 2: It may be more like yours, like they had a

996
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: moment and then they're like, never mind, but they weren't

997
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: actually in a relationship, while twenty two percent actually are

998
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 2: still friends with their partners. Now, I have seen more

999
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 2: trends of like parents who are having to co parent,

1000
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: trying to learn to be friends, and having to be

1001
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: friends whether they wanted to or not. There's a few

1002
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 2: reasons why they did this, and again that's one of

1003
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 2: those reasons. Others it does say that they still want

1004
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: to have sex with them, so they remain friends, which

1005
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 2: I feel like is a disaster.

1006
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: Abe.

1007
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: I'm just you know, odd. Some of it is because

1008
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 2: of mutual friendships. They don't want to lose friends, so

1009
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 2: they have to kind of remain in that circle together,

1010
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 2: which is super awkward. Which is why don't like my

1011
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: friends dating each other. I need that to be noted.

1012
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 2: I get very upset about this, especially if I'm no,

1013
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 2: it's not gonna go anywhere. I'm like why mm hmm.

1014
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 2: But then also they talk about like again like pets

1015
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 2: pets is a new thing because they like it's kind

1016
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 2: of like children. They're not at all not I'm not

1017
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,359
Speaker 2: equating that the same thing, but I'm just saying, like

1018
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 2: the love and wanting to care and getting attached to

1019
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: the pets, that's another big reason. And I get it.

1020
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I definitely, I've read I've read more and more

1021
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 1: about that too.

1022
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: But yeah, so like it's kind of there's a lot

1023
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 2: of reasons why you should be Again, I go back

1024
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 2: to the realm of like you need to go away.

1025
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 2: I need you to be on the island of X's.

1026
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 2: I don't need to see you. I don't care about

1027
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:51,280
Speaker 2: what you're doing. Congratulations on your fourth kid and fifth

1028
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 2: shoe pairing, couple of shoes whatever. I don't want to know.

1029
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: So that's how I land on this. But again, like

1030
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 2: if having children, having a pet, even I feel like

1031
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 2: it is like there's gonna be a if you truly

1032
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 2: had a good bond, Like if it's a whole other

1033
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:13,399
Speaker 2: traumatic reason, cut them out, do it, get that restraining order,

1034
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: whatever you need to do. Boo. I did see a

1035
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 2: few things where the black community talk about their friendship

1036
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 2: dynamic versus their friendship with people outside of the black community,

1037
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 2: and I like there's definitely a lot of questions in conversations.

1038
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 2: I saw a whole thing on TikTok about the Asian

1039
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 2: American community, talking about if you're not from that specific

1040
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,319
Speaker 2: area and try to make friends with them, you're not

1041
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:43,240
Speaker 2: going to be welcome. If there's any Bay Area Asian

1042
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 2: people who want to tell me about those, talk to me,

1043
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 2: you can. But that was one of the biggest things

1044
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: that I have actually seen where in the Asian community.

1045
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 2: Because I'm adopted, I am not welcome, and they wouldn't

1046
00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 2: say that to me, but there are obvious looks of oh, oh,

1047
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 2: oh oh, that level of tone that I'm like, I'm

1048
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:11,720
Speaker 2: very well, I guess I can't be friends with you anyway.

1049
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 2: But there definitely is a conversation about the differences and

1050
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: the changes, and unfortunately it is what it is. There's

1051
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 2: a decrease in diverse friends groups because of the administration

1052
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: and the times that we are living in, and a

1053
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: lot of reasons come out to play. They talk about

1054
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: distrust in the white communities. We talk about white feminist women.

1055
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: I know it's not y'all. I know it's not like

1056
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 2: most of our listeners, but even with that level of like,

1057
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 2: they might not understand they might not see it for themselves,

1058
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 2: but the amount of unlearning that has happened. And I

1059
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 2: say that for myself living in white culture, like I

1060
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,280
Speaker 2: have to do, I had to do a lot of unlearning,

1061
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 2: Like you can see it from our first book club

1062
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 2: where we did White Fragility, and I have many regrets,

1063
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 2: but because it was recommended, like I go on like

1064
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: the defensive immediately, I was like, but my therapist, who

1065
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 2: was black, she's the one that recommended to me. But

1066
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: she did it because we needed to ease in, Like

1067
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,919
Speaker 2: I can guarantee she's like, y'all aren't ready to hear

1068
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 2: the absolute truth, so you need to be eased in

1069
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,360
Speaker 2: by someone who's gonna hold your hand. And that's kind

1070
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: of that level of like, oh right, and the unlearning

1071
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 2: is a lifetime of things that we have to unlearn

1072
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 2: when we're not like a part of a culture. And

1073
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 2: because of that, like we see that there's a level

1074
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 2: of distrust because a lot of people don't want to

1075
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 2: admit and it took us a minute to figure out,

1076
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 2: oh yeah, that's that's not necessarily the best because I'm

1077
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 2: still kind of like obviously I'm still feel like, oh,

1078
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 2: but but it's true, and so there's just a level

1079
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 2: of like distrust. I will say I have told many

1080
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 2: people I am more scared of white men than I

1081
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 2: have any other group of people's because there's so much

1082
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 2: context and kind of take, especially today, especially today in

1083
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 2: the State of Georgia, that happens that it's like, all right,

1084
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 2: once upon a time you could have told me everything's

1085
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 2: a melting pot, but it's not. And we don't like

1086
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 2: that term either, But you know, at least that had

1087
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 2: a little more understanding than when we are today. Then again,

1088
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 2: also that microaggression that continues today, that continues about whether

1089
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: or not the people are mad about Asian stuff in general,

1090
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 2: the whole thing that happened with COVID, the like microaggressions,

1091
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 2: that level that happened with the black community, DEI conversations

1092
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 2: that are happening today, like celebrating the end of DEI

1093
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 2: not understanding that diversity, equity and inclusion means everyone like

1094
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 2: that level like understanding it is like ugh, okay, and

1095
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,479
Speaker 2: because of an Asian dude coming after like affirmative action,

1096
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 2: there's a distrust of that, so like it's absolutely understandable.

1097
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:02,240
Speaker 2: And then also this conversation about childhood and how that

1098
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 2: it is taught. Obviously, I feel like these are obvious thoughts,

1099
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 2: but we don't really think on it. We don't really

1100
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 2: talk about it scientifically, and there's bigger conversations in what

1101
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: that actually means and what that actually looks like. So

1102
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,480
Speaker 2: on a twenty sixteen NYU study, it shows that teachers

1103
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:23,720
Speaker 2: play a big part in this. And we know there's

1104
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 2: a lot of QC conversations about how teachers are so

1105
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 2: it's such an influence and they do so much, but

1106
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 2: they really really do impact a lot of what the

1107
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 2: culture is going through today. And it can also discourage

1108
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 2: young children in making friends outside of their specific group

1109
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:47,440
Speaker 2: ethnicity like that when you're kids, you don't know, and

1110
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 2: we've seen many mania moments where children don't know they

1111
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 2: are taught that this could be wrong for some un

1112
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 2: real reason, like not realistic reasons. So here's the actual

1113
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 2: quote says. Although research shows that children with greater access

1114
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 2: to diverse peers are more likely to form inter racial friendships,

1115
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: I findings suggest that access to diversity alone is not

1116
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 2: sufficient for fostering these friendships, and teachers may play a role.

1117
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 2: Studies show that most childhood friendships are formed in classrooms,

1118
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 2: but children tend to form friendships with others of their

1119
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 2: own race or ethnicity, with interracial friendships decreasing across ages

1120
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 2: and grades. Yet for nearly half a century, educators and

1121
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 2: scholars have argued that friendships across race have social and

1122
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 2: emotional and academic benefits. And of course we're not saying

1123
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 2: that all teachers are being divisive on purpose, or that

1124
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 2: they're all encouraging segregation in friendships, but it isn't surprising

1125
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 2: to note that teachers do hold a lot of influence.

1126
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 2: And if there is a prejudice within teachers, or they

1127
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 2: show different treatment based on race or socioeconomic status, then

1128
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be hard to see that that would influence

1129
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 2: children they are supposed to be educating, even like whether

1130
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 2: it's making fun of a name, refusing to say a

1131
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 2: name out loud, refusing to say a name correctly, that

1132
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 2: really does influence children to another child, And I don't

1133
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 2: think we think on that enough and how severe those

1134
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 2: types of microaggression can be when it comes to the

1135
01:02:20,520 --> 01:02:24,240
Speaker 2: environment you're creating in your classroom. Again, this is not

1136
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: all teachers, but this is also why when you have

1137
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: an amazing teacher. It can change, It can change your

1138
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:35,080
Speaker 2: perception of so many things that you're like, wow, okay,

1139
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 2: you made this where it made it easy for me

1140
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 2: to have friends without feeling like my otherness is going

1141
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 2: to get in the way, or that there is an

1142
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 2: otherness to get in the way, you know. So that

1143
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,160
Speaker 2: there's so much to that point and to that level.

1144
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 2: And I will say that I my kindergarten teacher. I

1145
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 2: came in not knowing English. I can't say that I

1146
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 2: have any memory of her denigrating me or making fun

1147
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:03,160
Speaker 2: of me at any point, but I think I do.

1148
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:06,720
Speaker 2: But what I do have memories of her celebrating the

1149
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 2: things that I was doing, you know what I mean,

1150
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 2: So like that did not make me feel shamed necessarily

1151
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 2: for being there. Instead, I felt like, Okay, I'm learning,

1152
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 2: and I learned very quickly to acclimate in language and

1153
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 2: itself because for six months I was not speaking English.

1154
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: So fuck for me to come in and my mom

1155
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 2: specifically requested this teacher. I'm sure I frustrated the hell

1156
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 2: out of her because I don't think I was her favorite.

1157
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong, but she really she never did

1158
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 2: anything to me or ostracized me from the other people

1159
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 2: being my friend a That could be a level fetishism

1160
01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 2: in that, but that's a whole different conversation. But I

1161
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: never did not like I could make friends, So that

1162
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 2: was an amazing thing, as well as the fact that

1163
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 2: I don't have any memories of being shamed, and those

1164
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 2: are things that would haunt me for sure, And at

1165
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 2: never point did I feel like that I couldn't, you know,

1166
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 2: be another person. Did I want to be white? Of

1167
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: course that came with my own insecurities, but the teacher

1168
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: was not the reason. Mis Hilda, I remember you. But

1169
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 2: that's the thing is like that kind of environment, I

1170
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:20,040
Speaker 2: made sure to help me instead of hinder me in

1171
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:23,320
Speaker 2: that level. So that's a huge conversation that I don't

1172
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:26,040
Speaker 2: think we're having enough of about how big of an

1173
01:04:26,080 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 2: influence a teacher has in friendship making and that being said,

1174
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 2: growing into adults with kindness and compassion and less prejudice.

1175
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely and clearly. There are so many avenues of

1176
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,080
Speaker 1: friendship to discuss, and we've only gotten through half of

1177
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 1: the ones we've wanted to. So this is going to

1178
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:55,600
Speaker 1: be a two parter. This is part one and the

1179
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: next one we're going to talk about all kinds of

1180
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: other things. We have so many things about friendship to

1181
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 1: talk about, so please come back and listen to that one.

1182
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts about this episode, let us know.

1183
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at Steppmhenever Told You

1184
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky at

1185
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff

1186
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 1: when Never Told You. We're also on YouTube and we

1187
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: have new merchandise at Cotton Bureau, and we have a

1188
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 1: book you can get where you get your books. Thanks

1189
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: as always, char A super produced, Christina Executive producing, my

1190
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: ercontributor Joey.

1191
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:28,880
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

1192
01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:30,880
Speaker 1: Steffan Never Told You is production by Heart Radio for

1193
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 1: our podcast on my Heart Radio. You can check out

1194
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:34,640
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01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:35,720
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