Speaker 1: The dream is what the whole thing's about. That's why
Speaker 1: we're drawn to it. Almost every sport, a kid has
Speaker 1: a dream to get in the bigs, and we're gonna
Speaker 1: follow this path there and then somebody is gonna get
Speaker 1: there and hoisted the trophy. Long term, I don't really
Speaker 1: see people gravitating to this live tour because it doesn't
Speaker 1: have that underlying competitive spirit that I think we love. Actually,
Speaker 1: put another log on the fire nobody hears get the time.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the fire Pit Collective for yet another
Speaker 1: Fire Drill podcast. I'm Machine Ellen. I'm joined by Alan
Speaker 1: Schipnuk in London who's just covered the first inaugural live event,
Speaker 1: Michael Bamberger, Ryan French of Monday q Info Mac Barnhart
Speaker 1: has joined us and guys excited to you know, break
Speaker 1: this all down. Before we get going, I want to
Speaker 1: thank some of our sponsors who helped make all of
Speaker 1: this possible. Part Points Brandon Ebert and Kevin Quinley obviously
Speaker 1: have created the revolutionary app and an alternative to how
Speaker 1: we score the game of golf. Can't thank them enough
Speaker 1: for their support. I suggest downloading the Part Points app today.
Speaker 1: Go make par It's a lot of fun, especially for families, beginners,
Speaker 1: and Buddy's trips. We are looking for an alternative way
Speaker 1: of scoring a format. Dormy Workshop have helped us put
Speaker 1: our logo on some incredible new merchandise that we're dropping
Speaker 1: next week US Open Week that we're very excited about
Speaker 1: and we're pretty sure that you will be too. And
Speaker 1: then bag Boy, who makes the what I believe to
Speaker 1: be the best push cart out there in the business,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they have any competition. I can't
Speaker 1: thank all of them enough for their support of what
Speaker 1: we're doing here and what we're doing here today is
Speaker 1: is most notably checking in with Alan as this live
Speaker 1: event is in the books, Alan and looking forward to
Speaker 1: hearing your your sort of wrap up thoughts. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I wrote this in my story that's going to post
Speaker 1: very soon on fire but Collected dot com. It's like
Speaker 1: this is the age of cognitive dissonance, right like this,
Speaker 1: this whole experience being here on the ground stirred up
Speaker 1: a lot of competing emotions. Like on one hand, it's
Speaker 1: impressive what what live is built in a very short
Speaker 1: amount of time. I mean, it's a very well run
Speaker 1: tournament and all the trappings were really well done. Um.
Speaker 1: But then you know, his excellency so and so gets
Speaker 1: on the mic at the presentation and it's just get
Speaker 1: a little chill like, oh, yeah, these are the guys
Speaker 1: you know, and um, so you can't divorce yourself from
Speaker 1: where the money came from. Um. But then there there's
Speaker 1: some you know, some interesting stories like you know, Peter
Speaker 1: you line finishes fourth, makes over a million dollars. That's
Speaker 1: seven times what he's made on the PGA Tour this
Speaker 1: year in fifteen starts. And he's a guy who spent
Speaker 1: a decade trying to really find a home, Like maybe
Speaker 1: he's finally found one. Maybe he can be the player
Speaker 1: we thought he was going to be. Strangely, you know,
Speaker 1: Live will be a place where he can he can
Speaker 1: work it out and then transfer into the majors. But then,
Speaker 1: even as the competition is going on and and you know,
Speaker 1: Charles Schwartzel's getting his first win in six years, that
Speaker 1: gets overshadowed by the news break that Patrick Read and
Speaker 1: Pat Perez have now joined Live. Follows the announcement yesterday
Speaker 1: that Bryson's officially coming aboard, there's rumors all over Twitter
Speaker 1: that Coke Rack and Harold Varner the next, and so
Speaker 1: that it just keeps growing and evolving, and you know,
Speaker 1: Live is now accumulated this this critical mass of legit players.
Speaker 1: You know, you got Hall of famers and Phil and
Speaker 1: Dustin will be one day you half a dozen major
Speaker 1: championshipinners like Schwartzel. We've got some big personalities like Poulter,
Speaker 1: uh and Perez and others. But getting these these the
Speaker 1: coke Racks of the world is significant because they're gonna
Speaker 1: elbow out of the fields and these guys never heard of,
Speaker 1: which kind of hurt the credibility of the tournament. And
Speaker 1: they also they have pretty legit spots in the world ranking,
Speaker 1: and this is that's one of the biggest istues that
Speaker 1: now faces LIVE is can they be granted world ranking
Speaker 1: points so that will allow their players to keep competing
Speaker 1: in the majors. And if that happens, the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: has no leverage over these guys. I mean, so the
Speaker 1: more players they get, the harder they are to ignore.
Speaker 1: And they're clearly gonna keep getting more players. So it
Speaker 1: was a momentous week for professional golf, and um it
Speaker 1: was also kind of a complicated viewing experience with those
Speaker 1: us were here, Michael Bamberger, your thoughts, well, I, you know,
Speaker 1: Alan was there. Were so fortunate to have had Alan
Speaker 1: there and to have his insights. Alan's covered a lot
Speaker 1: of tournament golf over you know, a quarter century or more. Um,
Speaker 1: we know what it's like to be Sunday in this case,
Speaker 1: not Sunday, but the last round of a tournament. Did
Speaker 1: we get wrapped up in the shot making like all
Speaker 1: the other stories go aside and we you know, we
Speaker 1: care about how the thing's gonna play out. Did you
Speaker 1: feel that on any emotional level today where you actually
Speaker 1: cared about the tournament itself. Yeah, Because I've always been
Speaker 1: a Schwartzel fan. You know, when he won the Masters
Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven, that's one of the greatest Sundays
Speaker 1: ever at a guy National. And a year later I
Speaker 1: did this this this recreation, this forensic recreation of that
Speaker 1: whole day. So I've always cared about him on more
Speaker 1: than most and he's just been lost in the wilderness
Speaker 1: with injuries and putting problems, and so he was trying
Speaker 1: to win for the first time anywhere in the world
Speaker 1: in six years, and he had a he had a
Speaker 1: five shot lead at the turn, and then he started
Speaker 1: making really bad swings and the lead got down to
Speaker 1: two and he was really struggling, and for little bit
Speaker 1: it was compelling to watch, like this is a proud champion,
Speaker 1: a guy who's trying to restart his career and throw
Speaker 1: out the money and all that. Like this is the
Speaker 1: guy who did not want to cough up a five
Speaker 1: shot lead on the back nine. It would have been devastating.
Speaker 1: And he was playing with this kid from South Africa
Speaker 1: who you know, heny new classes who uh they were
Speaker 1: they were the same group, and so there was that
Speaker 1: energy and so yeah, it actually felt like a golf
Speaker 1: toment for a while. And you know, Schwartz got it
Speaker 1: in the barn and that um, he's he's a great,
Speaker 1: you know, champion for them and the guys won of
Speaker 1: Masters and he's played all around the world and he's
Speaker 1: very classy, well spoken individuals. So um, for most of
Speaker 1: the week, all the off the course stuff completely dominated
Speaker 1: the actual golf. It has been like sideshow after sideshow,
Speaker 1: but there was about an hour and a half where
Speaker 1: there was some compelling golf to watch. Speaking of sideshows,
Speaker 1: we probably shouldn't go any further without sort of addressing
Speaker 1: the idea that after you got removed from Phil's press conference,
Speaker 1: you know, you went back, you wrote your game shot,
Speaker 1: you went back the next day. You obviously had been credentialed.
Speaker 1: Was there any other sort of follow up or were
Speaker 1: you escorted out? Did you ever get a chance to
Speaker 1: ask phill a question what you know? Did you ever
Speaker 1: have a chance to go face to face with Greg Norman?
Speaker 1: What's kind of the wrap up to all you know
Speaker 1: to that side show? Yeah, no, it was disappointing. When
Speaker 1: I was walking in the next day, Norman was sort
Speaker 1: of coming at me with his press person and somebody
Speaker 1: else and his his PR Wooman says, Hi Allen. I
Speaker 1: was like, Hi, Jane high Greg. But Norman didn't even
Speaker 1: look He's just like stared straight ahead like and I mean,
Speaker 1: I would have loved to have wrapped it out with
Speaker 1: him like what happened? And but you know that was
Speaker 1: really he's And then so then yeah, I went I
Speaker 1: just did my job and I had no hassles. But
Speaker 1: the challenge for reporters of covering this tournament is all
Speaker 1: forty eight players finished at the same time, and they're
Speaker 1: coming in from every direction and getting disgorged out these
Speaker 1: calves in different places, and um to try and manage
Speaker 1: that chaos, they really want all the interviews to happen
Speaker 1: in this confined like flash area. Um, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not one to totally always follow the rules. So I
Speaker 1: was looking for Phil just because I want to be like, dude,
Speaker 1: can we have like one quick moment like human human
Speaker 1: like can be piste off? I don't care, but like,
Speaker 1: why don't just get it out of the way at
Speaker 1: some point we have to have some interaction. But I
Speaker 1: never saw him. I don't know where they dropped them off,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't kind of the spot with a lot
Speaker 1: of other players and the same thing today. I mean
Speaker 1: it was, Um, I went out watch him play a
Speaker 1: couple of holes. You know, they didn't give me inside
Speaker 1: the ropes Landard like every other reporter had, Like I
Speaker 1: think that was one one that was one little subtle
Speaker 1: way They're trying to keep me away from Phil. So whatever.
Speaker 1: So it didn't happen on the golf course, and they
Speaker 1: never brought him in again, And they didn't bring Norman
Speaker 1: in for a press conference, which was crazy because like
Speaker 1: this was his victory lap. I mean he did it
Speaker 1: for all the missteps whatever, like they launched this thing
Speaker 1: and by any real metric it was a success. He
Speaker 1: would the Greg Norman was dying to come in and
Speaker 1: beat his chest, you know that. But I guess people
Speaker 1: have just said, like Greg, we gotta put you in
Speaker 1: the cooler here. So so no, no Norman, no Michelson.
Speaker 1: It's kind of the whole thing pizzled out. Was actually
Speaker 1: fine us happy to just have things be mellow. But
Speaker 1: so now, of course I'm gonna go at Feels press
Speaker 1: conference on Monday in Brookline and I want to ask
Speaker 1: them a question. I want to ask him for a while, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, if they just let me do it in
Speaker 1: London when nobody was around and nobody really cared, it
Speaker 1: would have taken all the starch out of it. But
Speaker 1: now it's gonna be like this whole fucking thing again.
Speaker 1: So uh so, yeah, there's there's no real resolution, but whatever,
Speaker 1: Mac Barnhart, you you are, along with Michael Sims and
Speaker 1: Colton Ller, will be continue with the podcast we're gonna
Speaker 1: call the Real Game and uh and it's for the
Speaker 1: perspective of of a player manager, a guy who has
Speaker 1: been in the trenches from a business side of all
Speaker 1: of this, working with players to advance their business. I
Speaker 1: think your perspective has been critical and I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to hearing it today as well. What are your thoughts? Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we talked about a lot about this. I mean,
Speaker 1: as Michael said, the toughest thing is getting past you know,
Speaker 1: the money, where the money comes from, and and that's
Speaker 1: you know that takes it gives us a lot of palls. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, but I don't know. You know, this sounds
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna justify, but I don't know how deep
Speaker 1: we can go about money. I mean, I know that
Speaker 1: Alan Stamford had money with the tour for a long
Speaker 1: time and it was a it was a total sham.
Speaker 1: I mean he was staling money, and UM, if we
Speaker 1: can you know, I just have to get past that, Okay,
Speaker 1: I just I can't do anything about where the money
Speaker 1: came from. Um, the opportunity. You know, I had a client,
Speaker 1: Andy Ogletree play didn't play great, hadn't played in a
Speaker 1: few months, which is kind of the point. He got
Speaker 1: suspended from the PGA tour. He got a letter m
Speaker 1: Thursday after he played saying he's suspended and funny thing
Speaker 1: is he hasn't played in a corn ferry event this year,
Speaker 1: and so he's been he hadn't had enough competition. And
Speaker 1: what made it more remarkable is this week the corn
Speaker 1: Ferry event in Green Bull didn't have a money qualifier,
Speaker 1: so Andy had no way of getting in the outside
Speaker 1: of a sponsor exemption to play. So he had nowhere
Speaker 1: to play. Um. He played the week before in an
Speaker 1: International Series event which is owned by the Asian Tour,
Speaker 1: and the tour released him to play in that same money,
Speaker 1: same people. So that's the kind of crazy thing. Um.
Speaker 1: But from from players standpoint, you know, I got. I
Speaker 1: had a player on tour that he did not accept.
Speaker 1: He did not accept an offer to play, and he
Speaker 1: texts me says, so all those guys in front of
Speaker 1: me just got So I just moved up seven spots
Speaker 1: on the FedEx list. So every shot makes somebody happy. Um.
Speaker 1: So you know, anytime there's an opportunity for a golfer
Speaker 1: to play no one. You know, the tour has always
Speaker 1: been to place. I've said it long before. They've done
Speaker 1: a great job, great product. Um. I don't have any
Speaker 1: problem up top. My problem still goes to have they
Speaker 1: created enough opportunities for people to come along. There's a
Speaker 1: lot more competitive golfers than there worked thirty years ago
Speaker 1: when they had the Hogan Tour when it first came out. Um, Andy,
Speaker 1: you know Andy didn't play well. Um, super super rusty
Speaker 1: as he said. Um. But you know, I look at
Speaker 1: it from the standpoint of I hate that, you know,
Speaker 1: I keep asking the question if this is Warren Buffett's money,
Speaker 1: where Jeff Bezos money, what would the question be. It's
Speaker 1: a it's a new format. I don't know if you know,
Speaker 1: I watched it on YouTube. Um, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: shots hit. Obviously there's no sponsors, so there's no commercials. Um,
Speaker 1: it's different, but so is you know everything that I
Speaker 1: see in the business. Um. But it's it's to me,
Speaker 1: it's a positive thing to have more opportunities for golfers
Speaker 1: to play outside of the outside of the you know,
Speaker 1: the social aspect that where the money comes from. So
Speaker 1: these guys who have now crossed the proverbial ruby kon, like,
Speaker 1: what do they do now? So in Nanny's case, he
Speaker 1: can't play Latino America, you can't play corn Ferry, you
Speaker 1: can't play Canada. So is Asia now the spot because
Speaker 1: they have this alliance with the Saudis. Like, is the
Speaker 1: balance of power and lower level golf going to shift
Speaker 1: towards Asia because that's where the O I think so
Speaker 1: yeah that I think I told you that. I hadn't never,
Speaker 1: never had a conversation about the Live Golf with Andy
Speaker 1: at the beginning. It was all about the International series
Speaker 1: they have. Um, I think they're going to have eleven
Speaker 1: events or thirteen events. I was looking for a place
Speaker 1: for Andy to play, Um, he couldn't get his number,
Speaker 1: would just not get in a corn ferry then, UM,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think that's exactly what it's gonna do. Um,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be you know, I think the International Series
Speaker 1: is going to be between four and seven million dollar
Speaker 1: purses next year. Um. And if you call that's huge
Speaker 1: for developmental circuits, I would I would call that. I
Speaker 1: don't know what I'd call that triple A because you know,
Speaker 1: the International Series will be triple A compared to Live.
Speaker 1: The Asian Tour will be you know, double A below that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if there's gonna be events under that,
Speaker 1: but that would be you know, it's always been my premise.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you just saw the tour just
Speaker 1: came out and and it's sixty dollars now to sign
Speaker 1: up for Q School. Um, there's three stages. Um, you
Speaker 1: know you gotta travel caddies do all that. And if
Speaker 1: you do get on, you can't even get to the tour.
Speaker 1: You'd still go to the corner for your tour, which
Speaker 1: is a great developmental tour. But the purses are not
Speaker 1: really enough for somebody to make a living. Um, And
Speaker 1: I don't let me uh mac, I'm gonna jump in
Speaker 1: here because I got a message just a little bit
Speaker 1: ago from a source on on tour who talked to
Speaker 1: a tour official. And here's the reasons that he said
Speaker 1: that the price went up playing for a million next year,
Speaker 1: their prices, their persons are going from seven to a million,
Speaker 1: the increase in uh O w g R status, World
Speaker 1: ranking points. And the last one made me laugh hysterically.
Speaker 1: In said adding eight new sites on at Q School, Like, great,
Speaker 1: you're adding new sites where I can pay my saxty.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's some sort of perk to me
Speaker 1: as a player, Like what, I don't. It's it's unreal.
Speaker 1: It really is unreal? Is it unreal? Ryan? Or is
Speaker 1: it obnoxious greed? I mean it is, it's obnoxious greed
Speaker 1: like and and I mean this is a whole separate
Speaker 1: thing and we're gonna get off in a tangent. But um,
Speaker 1: you know again, they say it's to eliminate dreamers. That's
Speaker 1: not true because they have a prequalifying stage. It's the
Speaker 1: cheapest part of the stage. That's literally what the pre
Speaker 1: qualifying was made for. Ryan who who's using their praise, Uh,
Speaker 1: get rid of the dreamers, eliminate the dreamers. Well that's
Speaker 1: why they claim they have to have a price, because
Speaker 1: the high price because they don't want people, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't want me teeing it up at at Q School, right,
Speaker 1: But it's such a minor part like in the like
Speaker 1: if you go look at Q school scores, there might
Speaker 1: be ten or twelve people who shoot like ninety at
Speaker 1: pre Q. But that's why the pre Q stage was
Speaker 1: literally invented to weed these people out. Right, And anyway,
Speaker 1: it's just it's there's no like we have all said
Speaker 1: a million times, there's nowheres here like we can all
Speaker 1: bitch about to live rightfully, so but to make money,
Speaker 1: and trust me, they make so if you want to
Speaker 1: play uh mcnos Andy is it would have been in
Speaker 1: this boat. If you want to play corn Frey Q
Speaker 1: School and missed there, then play Latin American Q School
Speaker 1: and you missed there, and you want to play Canadian
Speaker 1: Q School. There has twelve thousand dollars in entry fees.
Speaker 1: Twelve thousand dollars in entry fees to play three Q schools.
Speaker 1: It's insane. The dream is what the whole thing's about.
Speaker 1: Uh That's why we're drawn to it. Almost every sport,
Speaker 1: a kid has a dream to get in the bigs
Speaker 1: and we're gonna follow this path there and then some
Speaker 1: days going to get there and hoisted the trophy. And
Speaker 1: the biggest single difference between the PGA Tour and this
Speaker 1: live series is you earn your way onto the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour by shooting scores. You kind of do in the
Speaker 1: live but at the end of the day, it's an
Speaker 1: invitational And to me, that's a huge difference. And for
Speaker 1: that fundamental reason, even though no one would ever articulate
Speaker 1: it that way, long term, I don't really see people
Speaker 1: gravitating to this live tour because it doesn't have that
Speaker 1: underlying competitive spirit that I think we love. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with that, Michael. Um, I mean it was
Speaker 1: funny at the at the if you watch some of
Speaker 1: them to find around on the streaming and they're just
Speaker 1: talking about the money constantly, how much this puck could
Speaker 1: be worth. That's all they can fall back on. There's
Speaker 1: no history. But then they have this this splashy trophy
Speaker 1: presentation and the announcer she's like, okay, finishing third place,
Speaker 1: you know, for two million dollars, and the crowd around
Speaker 1: me he's like it aspires a little motion, but like
Speaker 1: not not much. It's it's we don't get a piece
Speaker 1: of that. So um, but Mac, I want to go
Speaker 1: back to the point is we're just trying to educate
Speaker 1: and even for myself to understand the changing landscape. So
Speaker 1: there's been some talk about these live guys now trying
Speaker 1: to join the European PGA Tour, which would give them
Speaker 1: many playing options. Um, if they want to supplement the
Speaker 1: live schedule now, it would make sense for the Eupean Tour.
Speaker 1: They'd get all these great players. If they could co
Speaker 1: sanction a few of these sound, these live events, then
Speaker 1: that would be a lot of money flowing to the
Speaker 1: European Tour members. Um. But the European Tour entered in
Speaker 1: the strategic alliance with the PGA Tour. So what where
Speaker 1: does the European Tour f into this now? And will
Speaker 1: they try and back away from the PGA Tour and
Speaker 1: get in bed with with Live, Like, what is your
Speaker 1: thought on where the European to the European Tour can
Speaker 1: survive this? Um? I don't know, because again, if they
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there's in your I don't think
Speaker 1: they've had a Q school in Europe for a couple
Speaker 1: of years because of COVID. I imagine when they release
Speaker 1: how to get onto the Asian Tour um and knowing
Speaker 1: that there's international series events, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: know how many. I don't know what the person on
Speaker 1: European Tour events, but they're not it's not huge, but
Speaker 1: they're going to have the second largest real tour that
Speaker 1: has world ranking points. Last week you had what five
Speaker 1: or six guys that finished that qualified into the Lives,
Speaker 1: So there was an upward motivation, right. UM, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know how the European Tour will survive if
Speaker 1: they don't. I mean, that's my point. I don't know
Speaker 1: enough about it to say it, but um, and and
Speaker 1: guys like Graham mcdoal who would always support the Eropean
Speaker 1: Tour and Poulter Lee Westwood, you know that there. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: the European Tour has not said that their members are
Speaker 1: banished like the PGA Tour dead. They're kind of sitting
Speaker 1: on the sidelines trying to figure this out. And so um,
Speaker 1: you know, Martin Kimer is talking about he wants to
Speaker 1: go play you know, the BMW or the German Open
Speaker 1: whatever I can't remember, if it supports whoever the sponsors.
Speaker 1: He wants to back to Germany to play. He's not
Speaker 1: sure if he's going to be able to. Well, it
Speaker 1: doesn't serve the European Tour to banish these guys, just
Speaker 1: like it doesn't serve the PGA Tour by the European
Speaker 1: Tour needed stars even more because there's fewer of them.
Speaker 1: So um, where where the eurotur goes becomes? That's the
Speaker 1: next domino in all of this. And everyone's holding their
Speaker 1: breath because they have not made any pronouncements like the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour did, so the rumblings continue, and um, it's
Speaker 1: just it's such a uh you know what's what's kind
Speaker 1: of happened though, And going back to like getting in
Speaker 1: getting into the tour to become a star. How much
Speaker 1: money it takes. I mean, it's an amazing amount of money, right,
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of people that run out of money.
Speaker 1: And if they don't run out of money, they've got
Speaker 1: the pressure of money while they're trying to develop. In
Speaker 1: other words, we'll go to baseball. Kid comes out of college,
Speaker 1: he's signed by the Braves, but he's not good enough
Speaker 1: to be in the majors. They put him in single A.
Speaker 1: They don't pay much, but they cover all his expenses,
Speaker 1: They cover all his training, They cover all the things
Speaker 1: that he needs to do to bring his skill level
Speaker 1: up to be in the majors. One day, you know,
Speaker 1: you start leaving people out. You know, they're starting people
Speaker 1: to unless you've got money, or you're one of these
Speaker 1: kids that maybe gets a good contract from a club company,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna see club you know, club companies are
Speaker 1: not paying the kind of money they used to pay
Speaker 1: kids coming out of college that could support you know,
Speaker 1: and he was US Amateur champion and he got enough
Speaker 1: money for a couple of years. But you know, with
Speaker 1: COVID and his hip surgery. He was going to run
Speaker 1: out of money Monday, qualify um And so to me,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody worries about the top of it. I
Speaker 1: worry about all the kids that I'm signing coming out
Speaker 1: of college. How do they get a roadmap to become
Speaker 1: a star, because it takes time to develop to become
Speaker 1: a tour player. And and people go, well, they can't
Speaker 1: play for money, they probably shouldn't be playing on tour
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. But in reality, having funding to
Speaker 1: go and play so you can develops, it's a much
Speaker 1: different story. And is that what you want? Is that
Speaker 1: only people you want to have a chance or people
Speaker 1: that come for money or have this kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's fair. Um, you know, And we
Speaker 1: talked about all this stuff, and you know, I think
Speaker 1: I may have mentioned the matter. You know. I know
Speaker 1: someone had a hardware store and it owned it for
Speaker 1: thirty years and Home Depot Depot was coming in and
Speaker 1: building this big home depot and they came to him
Speaker 1: and said, hey, we want to buy your store and
Speaker 1: we want you to come run our hardware department at
Speaker 1: home Depot. And the guy was just so mad about
Speaker 1: big business and so against you know, this Wall Street
Speaker 1: money coming in and building this home depot, and he
Speaker 1: ran him out of his office and six months after
Speaker 1: they opened, he went bankrupt and lost everything. Was he right?
Speaker 1: I mean, he didn't like queer the money was coming from.
Speaker 1: He didn't like where it was coming from. But the
Speaker 1: reality was that this he couldn't compete, and like it
Speaker 1: or not, that's I think that's where this is going
Speaker 1: to go. Um if you know, I think in this
Speaker 1: situation and the book of Art of War, uh, I
Speaker 1: still say the Tours shouldn't have at least had meetings
Speaker 1: and seeing that there was some kind of common ground
Speaker 1: to move forward, because I don't think lives going anywhere.
Speaker 1: I really don't The tours arrogance. Obviously, the Tours arrogance
Speaker 1: has definitely been him in the ass. I mean, and
Speaker 1: several times, this great disruption is happening because of the
Speaker 1: you know, in large part because of the Tours arrogance,
Speaker 1: wouldn't you say, Ryan, you know, they've been the only
Speaker 1: show in town. And uh, you know, I think they
Speaker 1: believe that the political ramifications would would offset it. And
Speaker 1: you know, once Dunce Dustin left, now the next guy
Speaker 1: really is going to face almost No, he's gonna face
Speaker 1: some on Twitter Hill face some, but in the scope
Speaker 1: of things, he's not gonna face things. Right Like Dustin
Speaker 1: took all the heat, Bryson is gonna take some more heat,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean a little bit of the less heat.
Speaker 1: Patrick's taking a little less heat Patrick Perez. They've already
Speaker 1: forgot about, uh, you know, like the next guy, unless
Speaker 1: it's a huge, huge name like Rory or Tiger or whatever,
Speaker 1: like abe answer goes, No, one's gonna be mad. Like
Speaker 1: it's kind of like there'll be some very vocal people, man.
Speaker 1: But I think in the scheme of things, and that's
Speaker 1: what the too are underestimated, in my opinion, they're just like, yes,
Speaker 1: we have the greatest product. Yes we're fine, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: This thing won't go and here we are. It's going. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think Monahan badly overestimated the value of PGA tour membership.
Speaker 1: He thought that was his his ace. Like if you
Speaker 1: guys go, you're not gonna be to members anymore. And
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, no worries, we're gone. And um, I
Speaker 1: think you know, Chepec has said this for years, like
Speaker 1: if you're a good player, you're focused on the majors
Speaker 1: and all these other events in between are just filler
Speaker 1: where you can work on a game and or you know,
Speaker 1: feel your corporate commitment. But you know, in some places
Speaker 1: you might have an emotional attachment like a pebble beach
Speaker 1: or whatever. But is a live event in London any
Speaker 1: different than you know, the Greater Hartford Open. I mean
Speaker 1: it's kind of similar crowd, similar energy, similar field. Like
Speaker 1: I think that that Monahan's critical mistake here was overvaluing
Speaker 1: what the PGA tour means that these guys and Graham
Speaker 1: McDowell said, you know, people don't want to hear this,
Speaker 1: but it's just a business decision for us, Like is
Speaker 1: a golfer you gotta look at how am I spending
Speaker 1: my time and what's the return on the investment? And um,
Speaker 1: so I think this has been laid bare. They need
Speaker 1: romanticism about you know, you have all these relationships in
Speaker 1: the community and the tournament directors and these longtime volunteers,
Speaker 1: and I love going back to this town and that's
Speaker 1: my favorite steakhouse. Like that's all out the window once
Speaker 1: once the persones get big enough. So um the allegiance
Speaker 1: of the PGA tour is much more shallow than Monahan thought,
Speaker 1: and that that's one of his that's one of his
Speaker 1: big mistakes. And all of this, I'll tell you guys.
Speaker 1: I you know, I lived in New York, you know, Michael.
Speaker 1: The last time we worked together was the story on
Speaker 1: September twelve, after nine eleven, right Like, for me, this
Speaker 1: has always been you know, oh, Saudi money. You know, Alan,
Speaker 1: you wrote that incredible story that we dropped earlier in
Speaker 1: the Firepro Collective about don't don't forget about who Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia is. Uh, you know, seventeen and nineteen of the
Speaker 1: you know, the terrorists came from Saudi Arabia. They knocked
Speaker 1: down the Twin Towers. We lost over three thousand Americans,
Speaker 1: two of them. I would call friends, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was always like I can't, you know, I can't.
Speaker 1: I can't be a part of I can't support this,
Speaker 1: you know. And and obviously Greg Norman is to me
Speaker 1: is just a is something that you find on the
Speaker 1: bottom of your shoe. And and and so I can't
Speaker 1: support that either, and and and yet you know yesterday CNN,
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, you know, gas prices are going up. You know,
Speaker 1: we are going to reset our relationship with Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, the United States of America is
Speaker 1: resetting its relationship with Saudi Arabia for you know, reasons
Speaker 1: that seem obvious, you know, oil and and money. And
Speaker 1: as he's trying to preserve his place as a you know,
Speaker 1: a president of the United States. And and we've had
Speaker 1: our issues with the DJ Tour. I there is no
Speaker 1: other game in town. I I we have. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a monopoly on professional golf there jacking up prices
Speaker 1: of Q school. They limit purses at the minor league.
Speaker 1: You know, right now, as I sit here today, as
Speaker 1: we continue to process everything that's going on and setting aside,
Speaker 1: you know, and again, United States isn't perfect, China is
Speaker 1: not perfectly. You know, let's go country by country, you know,
Speaker 1: and Mac, You've made this point, right, I mean, nothing's
Speaker 1: perfect And in the big scheme of things. At this point,
Speaker 1: I'm in the camp of the disruption. I'm in the
Speaker 1: camp of that there's a copy, there's a competition. I'm
Speaker 1: in the camp of like, let it all play out
Speaker 1: in courts, Let these guys go, not go. At this point,
Speaker 1: I don't really Okay, you know, I just left god
Speaker 1: Hill Park. Member member. You know, you know what I
Speaker 1: care about the recreational game, the game of golf, the
Speaker 1: health of the game as a whole, the fact that
Speaker 1: I want to teach my son the game, and some
Speaker 1: integrity around what it brings to us. In like like,
Speaker 1: I'm sort of like, let it just let it burn,
Speaker 1: Let the PGA Tour burn, Let all this stuff burn,
Speaker 1: and let's see what a bigger, better product will be
Speaker 1: on the back end of this and have it makes
Speaker 1: sense from a low level to a top level for
Speaker 1: the people who you know, who can shoot sixty two
Speaker 1: on the given day, have the chance to go make
Speaker 1: a living playing professional golf. It doesn't it doesn't need
Speaker 1: to be that that crazy. Now, I think that's really
Speaker 1: well said, and I agree with a lot of it,
Speaker 1: and I would I would. Now it's a great moment.
Speaker 1: And Matt we talked about this very briefly earlier. To
Speaker 1: really flip this whole thing and for the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: to become the disrupter. You think you're gonna disrupt us, Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna disrupt you. And now they move slowly because
Speaker 1: they're they're Titanic, but they've got to reinvent themselves here.
Speaker 1: The PGA tour has to reinvent itself here. Now to Monahan,
Speaker 1: it's easy to be critical money hand now, but I
Speaker 1: would say it was not a fair fight from the
Speaker 1: get go. He did the math. The math was easy.
Speaker 1: They got forger billion. We got a couple of millions
Speaker 1: sitting around here. So he was gonna lose no matter
Speaker 1: He was gonna lose no matter what. He's got no money.
Speaker 1: They got all the money. Um, you know, he every
Speaker 1: week he's got to be on the phone with this
Speaker 1: chairman and that chairman. Begging began, beggan, But now he
Speaker 1: could really I don't know whether it's a slim down tour,
Speaker 1: it's a shorter season, it's stealing some of these ideas.
Speaker 1: Maybe there could be. I would much prefer PGA tour
Speaker 1: that was athletic and lean, and you cared about it
Speaker 1: because the root of this whole thing, for majors were
Speaker 1: all drawn to the majors, or drawing the majors because
Speaker 1: we care, the players care. The course cares, of course,
Speaker 1: doesn't want him embarrass, the members don't want him embarrass.
Speaker 1: There's so much pride on the line with I don't
Speaker 1: think you're ever going to have that with this lived tour.
Speaker 1: And they can try to dress it up with the
Speaker 1: cabs and the fly OBErs and the fifty four holes
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah, but the fact is golf is
Speaker 1: a slow, contemplative, difficult game and it always will be
Speaker 1: and it will always be and there's only a small
Speaker 1: segment of the population that's really really going to be
Speaker 1: drawn to it. And the PGA Tour has got to
Speaker 1: get a brain trust together, which they may not have
Speaker 1: at the moment, and maybe they need the five of
Speaker 1: us plus Jake and figure out what can we be
Speaker 1: because this is not working. It's not working. Get off
Speaker 1: your ass, quit try and get out of the Ivory tower,
Speaker 1: get down on the ground, go out to some of
Speaker 1: these cues. Go it's talk to the players who six
Speaker 1: dollars you know how much money that is. I'm here
Speaker 1: with Daniel Augustus, who's playing on the ap G, A
Speaker 1: who got boned out of being at the Billy Horshell's
Speaker 1: event for no apparent reason, even though he's top five
Speaker 1: on the money list. Like, stop doing stuff that bones
Speaker 1: people who are trying to make a living playing professional golf.
Speaker 1: Get off your ass and do something that makes sense
Speaker 1: and be sensible about what's happened. These guys are masters
Speaker 1: of their craft and they're getting roaded tilled into the
Speaker 1: great ground of like you can't make it because you
Speaker 1: don't have enough money. What is going on? Elevate Tiger
Speaker 1: to commissioner of competition. I don't care any Timely wants
Speaker 1: paying whatever he wants. He needs something to do with
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. Have a short season from
Speaker 1: January through the Ryder Cup, get rid of that President's Cup,
Speaker 1: and then have a two month season of three man,
Speaker 1: three person teams a senior player, a regular player and
Speaker 1: a women player, people who have some common interest to
Speaker 1: bond in some way, and they'll play some kind of
Speaker 1: team competition through October, maybe mid November Caliday. Actually have
Speaker 1: an offseason and then started again in January. Do something
Speaker 1: totally different, but as the starting point, bring entire because
Speaker 1: Tiger is still Tiger, and none of these other guys said,
Speaker 1: grab you uson. By the way, if I never see
Speaker 1: Patrick Reid hit another golf shot again in my life,
Speaker 1: I will not care me either. Is this a podcast
Speaker 1: or a therapy well, if you've had you've had an
Speaker 1: outlet all week, we've been sitting around. Yeah. And by
Speaker 1: the way, Jeff, Jeff Ogilvie will be on with us
Speaker 1: all next week and he couldn't join today because it
Speaker 1: was his birthday yesterday. Having birthday to Jeff Ogilvie, one
Speaker 1: of the most thoughtful voices in the game, and I
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear his great perspective on all of this.
Speaker 1: But I have a feeling he's going to be in
Speaker 1: the camp of I'm for the disruption. He's a guy
Speaker 1: who started the sad belled invitation himself to try to
Speaker 1: have got people make more money at that level in
Speaker 1: which you're you're you're you're giving more money to the
Speaker 1: people who don't win as opposed to the people who
Speaker 1: do win. I think the fact that the people who
Speaker 1: are causing the disruption is Saudi Arabia and they have
Speaker 1: so many political ramifications, you know, all those kind of
Speaker 1: things stacked against them, and it seems to at least
Speaker 1: get beginning off the ground and have some legs is
Speaker 1: a real testament to how the PGA tour was sitting
Speaker 1: on their hands right like this is the easiest one
Speaker 1: to defeat if someone gets you know, we've talked about
Speaker 1: the Premium League or some something else, like if this
Speaker 1: Saudi thing goes down because people are scared politically, I
Speaker 1: think it's opened the door for the fact that the
Speaker 1: PGA tour is very vulnerable and you don't have the
Speaker 1: political ramifications of Saudi Arabia, and you get funding together
Speaker 1: and you do this, then everybody's jumping ship because like,
Speaker 1: you can do this same if you do, if somebody
Speaker 1: could figure out the same format and not have Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabian money, everyone's gone, all the all the top players
Speaker 1: are gone. There will be aligned for the top forty
Speaker 1: eight players. So I think it's just a real testament
Speaker 1: to a real shot at the tour that Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 1: despite all the political stuff, is taking players. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a good point. And let me tell you the Staudis
Speaker 1: aren't going anywhere, because I saw them here all week.
Speaker 1: These guys are dying for legitimacy and for acknowledgment. And
Speaker 1: we're here at the Centurion Club, which is like this
Speaker 1: real bastion of the London ruling class, probably a place
Speaker 1: that Saudis might not be welcome in another context. And
Speaker 1: so that's all these guys want is to be accepted
Speaker 1: and that to feel like they're part of this this
Speaker 1: global elite. You know. They they they've always been kept
Speaker 1: out of even you know, sort of like Trump can't
Speaker 1: buy his way into Augusta National, like the Staudiges could
Speaker 1: not buy their way in the Centurion Club. But all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, here they are, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: even even in the post round trophy presenta and his
Speaker 1: excellency said, you know, he explained live L I V
Speaker 1: is Roman numerals for fifty four. He's like, that's the
Speaker 1: perfect score in golf. Like, I guess if you're Bertie
Speaker 1: l teen holes, it is. But I'd like to have
Speaker 1: an eagle or a Nissan there. So that's debatable. But
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, it's never been done. I
Speaker 1: know some guys have shot fifty eight and maybe fifty seven.
Speaker 1: He's like, if anyone shoots fifty four and the Lip
Speaker 1: competition will pay them fifty four million dollar bonus, like
Speaker 1: even serious, like now that's that's that would be a
Speaker 1: health a round of golf. But that can happen in
Speaker 1: Portland if if they play fifty yards, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: exactly like maybe they'll start setting the course is easier
Speaker 1: because so someone make a run at it. But the
Speaker 1: point is, like this guy was, it was like you're
Speaker 1: you're toasting it like an occasion. You're a little tipsy,
Speaker 1: like okay, I'll buy all buy six rounds for everybody.
Speaker 1: Like that was kind of the vibe like okay, million dollars, sure,
Speaker 1: I don't care. Like that was just the energy of it.
Speaker 1: So these guys are loving this there they're not going
Speaker 1: anywhere like there. Now they get to go to Portland,
Speaker 1: another great city. You know that nothing. They're gonna be
Speaker 1: rubbing elbows with the US pre Donald Trump twice this year,
Speaker 1: Like the statis are going nowhere. But one thing I
Speaker 1: wanted to um, you know you're comment Michael Patrick Reed.
Speaker 1: I mean, can we just acknowledge that the guys that
Speaker 1: they are acquiring are a bunch of pain in the
Speaker 1: asses Patrick Reid, Bryceon Di siambo Ian Poulter, Sergio Garcia,
Speaker 1: I mean, Pat Perez, Like I'm sure that the mac
Speaker 1: you knowls, the guys who manage the player relationships on
Speaker 1: the PGA tour, they must be celebrating. They don't have
Speaker 1: to do with these guys anymore, Like it's a really
Speaker 1: funny kevin Na, Like, it's a really funny group of personalities.
Speaker 1: I think it helps live because these are players that
Speaker 1: inspire emotion and conversation on social media that's probably much
Speaker 1: bigger than their actual accomplishments might be. Um, but it's
Speaker 1: it's a did you imagine like a rain delay and
Speaker 1: they're all in the locker room like all these all
Speaker 1: these weird dues like it could be it could be hysterical.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, there's it's that's a lot of
Speaker 1: personality up in something up in the mountains right now.
Speaker 1: I talked to an older in him and about it
Speaker 1: and and he had I don't enough his comment, but
Speaker 1: you know he he said, you know, look, you know,
Speaker 1: my my father fault landed in Normandy and you know,
Speaker 1: to free you know, against Germany, and how he would
Speaker 1: never have a German car and he had, he bought
Speaker 1: a BMW and his wouldn't let him park it in
Speaker 1: the driveway. Um, we've had Japan bombas and forty one,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure there were people that fought in specific
Speaker 1: they would never buy a product from Japan and they
Speaker 1: had the same So is it there is there gonna
Speaker 1: be a day that where Saudi Arabia's forgiven and you know,
Speaker 1: we move on and they do come, you know, come
Speaker 1: into the world. Um does it happen? Um? So I
Speaker 1: you know they're not going anywhere. Um. I don't think
Speaker 1: the political problem with the money is going to stop him.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna stop anybody. Most the people
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. There's a lot of players that I've
Speaker 1: gotten calls from that I don't represent, that wanted to
Speaker 1: know how did you get Andy in? What's the deal?
Speaker 1: A lot of players and they you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I tweeted it out before the tournament met I said,
Speaker 1: if Henry, if Henny Due plus wins the four million dollars,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a line from here, you know, from
Speaker 1: Chicago to Portland. Uh, sign it up, because they assume
Speaker 1: they can beat Henny. And sure enough, the dude finished second,
Speaker 1: collects two point eight million dollars, changes his life. And
Speaker 1: I guarantee you it made a lot of people in
Speaker 1: Canada this week and a lot of people on the
Speaker 1: European tour. Goo. I've beat that guy a million times
Speaker 1: and he just collected two point eight million dollars. Maybe
Speaker 1: I should go get in line. He basically tripled his
Speaker 1: lifetime career earnings in three days. He's only five, but
Speaker 1: it's pretty startling like that, It's incredible all and he
Speaker 1: he turned pro seven years ago and he's I mean
Speaker 1: his two wins on the I mean I looked it up,
Speaker 1: his two wins on the Sunshine Tour forty one dollars
Speaker 1: and forty three dollars. So like, I mean literally, if
Speaker 1: he never gets a lift start again, it changed his
Speaker 1: life today, like changed his life. Okay, so so so,
Speaker 1: So the question is, just before we go, we'll wrap
Speaker 1: this up, let's go around the horn, because we got
Speaker 1: all next week to continue to have conversations about this.
Speaker 1: Where does the p g A Tour go from here?
Speaker 1: You know, instead of throwing pit money at the the
Speaker 1: already rich, instead of you know, instead of raising persons
Speaker 1: like isn't there money and time and energy better spent
Speaker 1: at restructuring all of their tours and not just throwing
Speaker 1: money at like the top ten richest players on tour. Well,
Speaker 1: I I felt this earlier in the week, and I
Speaker 1: really feel it now. I think the tours only play
Speaker 1: is to concede defeat and try and forge another alliance
Speaker 1: and do it with the Saudis and bring them into
Speaker 1: the fold, which of course live would love because it
Speaker 1: legitimizes them. And for for the tour players, it's the
Speaker 1: dream scenario. You keep your membership, you get to play
Speaker 1: Pebble Beach and all the places you like, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever your favorite tournaments are. You keep all the FedEx
Speaker 1: cut bonuses and all that stuff, and you get to
Speaker 1: cherry pick a handful these live events and make insane
Speaker 1: amounts of money. Like from the players perspective, that's the
Speaker 1: ultimate victory, and it could be a win for golf fans,
Speaker 1: you know, if you put those events into the fall
Speaker 1: when there's not much going on, to get the stars
Speaker 1: off the couch because the persons are so big, there's
Speaker 1: just team element. Could be a fun twist and can
Speaker 1: get the tour that needs to shake up its formats.
Speaker 1: Like to me, it's blindingly obvious now making World Golf
Speaker 1: championships like this, yeah, or you know, they just they
Speaker 1: just become adjuncts. You know, it's it's just you call
Speaker 1: it some high falutin this international series and whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it. Um it would strengthen the tour schedule.
Speaker 1: The money would flow to the players. You would give
Speaker 1: the Saudias of legitimacy they crave. There's really no losers
Speaker 1: that I can see. This is very unlikely. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean Greg, Greg Norman and Jane working together. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: that's what I think. I mean, Alan, they might have
Speaker 1: been able to do that two months ago, but now
Speaker 1: I think it's too late. I mean, we might have
Speaker 1: to get a reading from mac in the Art of War.
Speaker 1: Whether it's too late or not. But my guess it,
Speaker 1: My guess it is. Uh, it is too late for that. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't, I don't know. I don't see.
Speaker 1: They could find maybe a partner, but I don't think
Speaker 1: it would be I don't think it would be the
Speaker 1: saudiest I thought. Alan, you might say something even more extreme,
Speaker 1: which is let them all go. We're still the PGA Tour.
Speaker 1: And um, if you love golf, you're gonna would love
Speaker 1: to watch what we what we give you, which has
Speaker 1: worked for a hundred years and probably will for the
Speaker 1: next center years. You know, this is bandwagon stuff and
Speaker 1: there is tried and true. Um. You know, if Major
Speaker 1: League Baseball, if there was a competing league that where
Speaker 1: there where there were metal bats and you know in
Speaker 1: twot you know homeer infences, it wouldn't be golf, it
Speaker 1: wouldn't be It would be a different form of golf.
Speaker 1: And um, I think the PGA Tour can still be
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, but a different PGA Tour than the
Speaker 1: one that we've known. UM. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of changes coming. I think what that probably what they'll
Speaker 1: do is they'll start looking at reducing the aids of
Speaker 1: the Senior Tour, of the Champions Tour below fifty maybe
Speaker 1: probably get it to forty five. Give give these guys
Speaker 1: that spend those few years commentating or trying to commentate
Speaker 1: or whatever a place to go play. I think they will.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think they'll go back to
Speaker 1: the to the Rabbit days where there's only sixty people exempt,
Speaker 1: But I do think maybe they'll go to lessening how
Speaker 1: many exempt players there are, opening up the Monday qualifiers
Speaker 1: to get more because you know, you're right, you know,
Speaker 1: it's great. We always want to see Tiger win, we
Speaker 1: want to see Rory win. But how cool is it
Speaker 1: when somebody Monday qualifies and wins and changes their life.
Speaker 1: I think Argent at Wall might know Corey Connors was
Speaker 1: the last guy to Monday qualify. I think that their
Speaker 1: development tour will have to find a way to go
Speaker 1: back to the roots of like the Hogan Tour. It
Speaker 1: was developed where people could drive week to week and
Speaker 1: keep their their costs down and their expenses down, not
Speaker 1: flying to the Bahamas for two weeks and then you know,
Speaker 1: South America for two weeks and then. And I think
Speaker 1: that that qualifier I think when they came up with
Speaker 1: Hogan was I think there's eight, but there used to
Speaker 1: be sixteen or eighteen spots a week two Monday qualifying. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, they've got the they've got the PGA tour
Speaker 1: you deal where they give a guy status on a
Speaker 1: certain or as long as they stay in tours college
Speaker 1: for two four years. Uh. If they would go look
Speaker 1: at their star base and see how many years of
Speaker 1: college all their star base went to college. If they
Speaker 1: went it wasn't four years. Um. So I think they've
Speaker 1: got a lot of changes that they're gonna make. I
Speaker 1: do I think. I Mean, I haven't talked to anybody,
Speaker 1: but I think they have to get the developmental part
Speaker 1: of it. Back to the grassroots. I'm gonna give you
Speaker 1: an example, and the old Tree he does, his number
Speaker 1: doesn't get in. But there are people that play events
Speaker 1: on the corn Fry Tour to play five events so
Speaker 1: they can get their insurance paid, and they're just filling
Speaker 1: the field and they're taking spots away. Um. So I
Speaker 1: think there's you know, the past champion status. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: the past champions status has brought up when people were
Speaker 1: quitting golf at forty, not winning golf tournaments at sixty. Um,
Speaker 1: so all those things need to revamped, I think. So
Speaker 1: I do think they can do it. And you know
Speaker 1: the Tour, you know, the President's Cup, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean every year are their stars have to go spend
Speaker 1: a week they don't get paid to go play for
Speaker 1: their country. Um. You know, maybe they could have switched
Speaker 1: that around a little bit and and let the European
Speaker 1: team play every other year against the you know, the
Speaker 1: World Tour. Because these guys, they say they love playing
Speaker 1: for the country, but behind the scenes it wears them down.
Speaker 1: It's they know they're being used that week and they're
Speaker 1: not getting paid. Um. I think they just did too
Speaker 1: much and deluded the product and just maybe bring in
Speaker 1: you know, you know, if you've been to Sanderson Farms,
Speaker 1: there's no field there. I mean, Sam Burns won. But
Speaker 1: if you go to that tournament and tell me it's
Speaker 1: not a fun tournament, they that community embraces it. They
Speaker 1: have a great time with it. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: it's a small you know, can't be compared to what
Speaker 1: Scott still is at the Waste Management. But I wonder
Speaker 1: if they suspended play and didn't nobody played at Waste
Speaker 1: Management for a day that anybody would notice, Well, they
Speaker 1: have a hundred and twenty people come. I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean there's more to it than just this game of golf.
Speaker 1: We say, man, you know, there's so much. But if
Speaker 1: the local communities that the money is raised for, they're
Speaker 1: still getting to benefit. And I don't I don't know
Speaker 1: that it's a big deal of if Rory doesn't show
Speaker 1: up or if send them show up. So I think
Speaker 1: there's a lot of changes they can do to make it.
Speaker 1: When there is a PGA Tour event being played, it
Speaker 1: is exciting and the big guys are there, and maybe
Speaker 1: that there's a level underneath it in the center. Some
Speaker 1: farms in Sea Island where I live that it's a
Speaker 1: community gathering. I mean, it's kind of a it's a
Speaker 1: it's a fun time, So I think they will. I
Speaker 1: don't think I agree with you. I don't think they're
Speaker 1: far I think they're too far gone to negotiate with.
Speaker 1: How about treating the caddies a little better too, you know,
Speaker 1: like I mean, it doesn't end. But Ryan, I know
Speaker 1: you love this. After Alan, Michael and Max speak, you
Speaker 1: got some got some thoughts for us, after the people
Speaker 1: who have covered it their entire life or lived it,
Speaker 1: I have to go to finish it up. This is
Speaker 1: always great. I swort of gotten. Next fucking podcast, We're
Speaker 1: changing the order. I'm going for fucking stupid. Oh, let's
Speaker 1: wrap it up with the guy who's been in this
Speaker 1: game the least perfect. You've built, your built You've given
Speaker 1: a voice. You know, you've you've diligently and selflessly given
Speaker 1: a voice to the level of player that we're talking about. Honestly, honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm scared. Uh you know, Mark and I have had
Speaker 1: this conversation a lot. I am. I am very scared
Speaker 1: for the guys like Mark or Andy or those guys
Speaker 1: that that pro golf is getting so focused because of
Speaker 1: Live on the top players of the game. That that's
Speaker 1: where the PGA Tour heads and the corn Ferry becomes
Speaker 1: seventy one on down or fifty one and on down
Speaker 1: right like and and this game there's no gonna be
Speaker 1: no surprise winners ever right never, There's never going to
Speaker 1: be the Parker McLoughlin's or uh, the Sean mckeel's or ever. Like.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm concerned about that is that they're gonna
Speaker 1: look at this product. They've always been top uh of
Speaker 1: the field, stars focused the PGA Tour. Now this makes
Speaker 1: them even more hyper focus because that's what the Live
Speaker 1: is doing. I'm concerned in ten years, we're looking at
Speaker 1: the Live Tour at forty eight players and the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour at seventy and everybody else is fighting for nuggets
Speaker 1: to feed those two tours. Wow, this is this is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And lots more coming including US Open Week, there's a
Speaker 1: major week. When do we talk about that? Matt? I mean,
Speaker 1: where are they playing that? Here? It's a shot, it's
Speaker 1: a shotgun. Start, Michael, you know you haven't heard but Ryan,
Speaker 1: last point, there's a little thing in my book where
Speaker 1: m Brandon Shambilie's replaying this conversation you have with Phil
Speaker 1: like in the nineties and Phil saying the PJ hors
Speaker 1: should just be the top thirty players and that's it.
Speaker 1: And AND's like he wasn't aware, like that would be
Speaker 1: eliminating my job. He didn't even understand what he was
Speaker 1: saying to me. But like that, that's that's been a
Speaker 1: vision for some of these It's so funny and way
Speaker 1: before the Lift Tour, uh like maybe six months ago,
Speaker 1: Billy Horschel said the same thing. He said, maybe we should,
Speaker 1: you know, get the PGA Tour down to eighty people.
Speaker 1: And it's so funny how people, even the stars forget,
Speaker 1: like where they came from. Billy Horschel went to Q
Speaker 1: school four times, okay, like finished a hundred fift on
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour money list and kept his card three times.
Speaker 1: So like before we started getting to like, hey, let's
Speaker 1: get rid of everybody. Let's That's why I hope that
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour never gets to that because regardless of
Speaker 1: the top top stars, as as Mac knows and we
Speaker 1: all know, is the tour is made up of mostly
Speaker 1: guys who have played somewhere else or didn't get through
Speaker 1: Q school or had to go back to Q school
Speaker 1: and now became stars. So that's what I hope that
Speaker 1: the tour and the pack hold onto that we never
Speaker 1: get to that. But I think this is at least
Speaker 1: from my behalf, and obviously it's a biased opinion. Is
Speaker 1: is I'm concerned that we're like to forty eight player
Speaker 1: fields away and divide up the stars and let's go
Speaker 1: in ten years. I'm afraid of that too. I would
Speaker 1: like to remain hopeful that as a result of this
Speaker 1: disruption in Cage Rattle, that that in the end that
Speaker 1: maybe we end up with a better system and a
Speaker 1: better product. I'm gonna stay hopeful. Well, you know, I
Speaker 1: think there was an implication in Max pointed out, you know,
Speaker 1: Sanderson Farms in the Sea Island event, that if the tour,
Speaker 1: the tour has lost its way. Nobody thinks of Jay
Speaker 1: Monahan running a not for profit company with the corporate
Speaker 1: jets and all the CEOs in the in the in
Speaker 1: the time that they have. But what Mac is describing
Speaker 1: is a not for profit vision of the golf. And
Speaker 1: one thing this Live Golf is not I mean so literally,
Speaker 1: it is a for profit company. UH, and the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour has to differentiate itself from that. You know, at
Speaker 1: the at the Masters, they never knew who even knows
Speaker 1: or cares what what what first place money is UH.
Speaker 1: At the Master's it never it never gets talked about. Um.
Speaker 1: Greg Norman couldn't even couldn't even get Fred really on
Speaker 1: the phone to talk about possible path from Live to
Speaker 1: the Masters in the first place. So there there is
Speaker 1: a it's a different thing what Live is trying to do.
Speaker 1: And I think what the PJ Tour can do is
Speaker 1: double down and what they really are, which is what
Speaker 1: Mac just described really super regional events. And even that
Speaker 1: Pebble Beach Tournament as national it is, is a really
Speaker 1: a regional event UM that puts on the show for locals,
Speaker 1: that raises money for local charity, and on some weeks
Speaker 1: but not every week, the whole country tunes in, but
Speaker 1: more often maybe not. I I hope that, I hope
Speaker 1: that in the end that when we go live with
Speaker 1: next year's wish Bone Brawl, instead of calling is Andrew
Speaker 1: Shoffley and Fred Couples and John Ashworth to say cease
Speaker 1: and desists, they say, Wow, what an incredible event. You're
Speaker 1: having out there. I hear you're raising money for kids.
Speaker 1: The PGA Tour would like to send a check for
Speaker 1: fifty thou dollars and add to the pot. And congratulations
Speaker 1: for putting together an incredible event with Persimmon Woods at
Speaker 1: a many municipal for twelve people, twelve hundred onlookers, have
Speaker 1: a great week, and uh and and we'll see us soon.
Speaker 1: Where do we send the money? And instead of when
Speaker 1: we're out trying to cover Mark Baldwin's dreams area of
Speaker 1: getting a sponsors rexemption to a T and T and
Speaker 1: we're covering his round out there where no cameras are
Speaker 1: and we're showing a few videos and a few pictures.
Speaker 1: They say thank you for supporting our sponsors and our
Speaker 1: event and bringing more eyeballs to our product, because we
Speaker 1: know you put out a lot of money and a
Speaker 1: lot of effort and manpower to try to do so.
Speaker 1: Instead of the phone calls of cease and desist, it's
Speaker 1: a phone call to say and celebrate the idea that
Speaker 1: there are people out there trying to promote your product.
Speaker 1: Get out of the tower, get down on the ground.
Speaker 1: Otherwise I'm all for the other side. Well, we have
Speaker 1: we have cats sleeping with dogs in Norman and Monahan.
Speaker 1: Now you've got you're reinventing the whole tours corporate ethos
Speaker 1: like this if we turn in a bunch of dreamers
Speaker 1: here on this podcast. But I think that's that's what
Speaker 1: this moment is doing, Like everything's up for grabs and
Speaker 1: we're just we're we're all, we're all. No one knows
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen, and it's gonna be fascinating, and we're
Speaker 1: just trying to be tour guides for the listeners. But
Speaker 1: there's there's so much unsettled and to play out. It's
Speaker 1: really a gift from the content gods. I mean for
Speaker 1: the players. For the players, it's a windfall of undreamed
Speaker 1: of riches. For us, it's just endless content. So ei
Speaker 1: there are some there are different winners here, I guess Alan,
Speaker 1: thanks for thanks for everything you did this week, for
Speaker 1: making that track, for doing your job, for having the
Speaker 1: brass set of balls that you have to show up
Speaker 1: even though Michelson didn't have the brass set to answer
Speaker 1: any questions. And uh, again, I appreciate everybody being here.
Speaker 1: I appreciate everybody, everybody listening more to come from the
Speaker 1: fire Drill and the Fire Pick Collective next week from Boston.
Speaker 1: It should be an incredible event and I can't wait
Speaker 1: to see how this unfolds. Um Alan, you're the man.
Speaker 1: I say this very seriously. Get home safely, put another
Speaker 1: log on the fire. Nobody here is to get the
Speaker 1: time