1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: Melissa Kearney is an economist at the University of Maryland 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: and she has a new book called The Two Parent Privilege, 4 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: How Americans stopped getting married and started falling behind. I've 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: read a number of interviews with Kearnie because the topic 6 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: is obviously in my wheelhouse, and I plan to read 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: the book, but I haven't yet. But last weekend Barry 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Weiss interviewed Kearnie at Free Press and one thing she 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 1: said really stuck out to me. Kearney said, and this 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: is a quote that in survey evidence, you don't see 11 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: widespread rejection of marriage as an institution. You don't see 12 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: in the US that there's been a widespread move away 13 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: from the desire to get married. Rather, it feels like 14 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: achieving a stable married home is a bit of a 15 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: luxury good. It's something that's harder for people without higher 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: levels of education and income to achieve. So for that reason, 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: we should not be okay with that advantageous institution being 18 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: something that's increasingly out of reach for those who aren't 19 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: in the highest education income classes in our society. 20 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: End quote. 21 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: Kearney's solutions to this are largely government orientated, spending more 22 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: money on the promotion of strengthening families. Now, obviously I'm 23 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: all for strengthening families, but I don't think a government 24 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: role works. 25 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 3: The George W. 26 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: Bush administration spent three hundred million dollars a year on 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: the Healthy Marriage Initiative that did very little beyond line 28 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: the pockets of organizations that hold quote relationship education classes. 29 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: The Obama administration kept that program going with a small 30 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: shift and focus into fatherhood. One study found that it 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: did very little to help sustain the marriages of the 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: people in the program, and it did not translate into 33 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: significant impacts on marital stability, nor into substantial impacts on 34 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: co parenting, parenting. 35 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: Or outcomes for children. 36 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: None of it worked, and as Kearney says, people still 37 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: respect the institution of marriage, they just don't participate in it. 38 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: They don't think it's for them, and that's very odd. 39 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: I think it has a lot to do with marriage 40 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: being portrayed as uncool in our world. In her book 41 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: The Power of Glamour, Virginia Pastrell notes that in the 42 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: films of the nineteen thirties, divorce was depicted as glamorous 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: marriage was at times a loveless prison, while divorce was 44 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: a kin to wearing evening gowns and making cocktails and 45 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: silver shakers as a habit of the fictional rich. But 46 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: now divorce is commonplace and the reality isn't so much 47 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: cocktails and gowns as lonely apartments and having the kids 48 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: every other weekend. And while marriage may not be glamorous either, 49 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: government seminars on the importance of tying the knot definitely 50 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: won't change that singlehood is now portrayed as glamorous. But 51 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: I think most young adults know that's not true. Hence 52 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: they continue to have a high opinion of marriage. Like 53 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 1: a lot of things, I think what works here is 54 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: telling the truth that marriage is good and fine and 55 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: makes you feel secure and loved and all that other 56 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: good stuff. I hear the naysayers saying, oh, not every marriage, okay, 57 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: and not every singlehood. Life is one of Martini's in 58 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: fast cars, and telling the truth is actually not as 59 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: easy as it sounds. 60 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 3: Kearney told Weis. 61 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: That she was dissuaded from writing this book by her peers, 62 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: who nevertheless agreed with her perspective. Kearney said. The University 63 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: of Chicago Press published her book, and it wasn't an 64 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: easy process. She got four reviews, one of which said, 65 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 1: you should not be publishing a book in twenty twenty 66 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: three that calls for a return to marriage. So maybe 67 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: that's the place to start. The people who are pushing 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: an anti marriage agenda and harming so many poor people, 69 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that most of those people are 70 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: themselves married. People have been lied to, and we have 71 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: to start telling the truth, even if it's uncomfortable or 72 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: sounds hokey. Coming up next and interview with Kira Davis. 73 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: Join us after the break. Hi, and welcome back the 74 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Kira Davis, 75 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: host of Just Listen to Yourself and author of Drawing Lines. 76 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: Hi, Kira, so nice to have you. 77 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 4: Hi, Carol. It's good to be here. 78 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: And I think of your show. I think of it 79 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: in that tone like just listen to yourself? 80 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 4: Is that back in the tone that it is meant 81 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: to be said in? And you know, one day I 82 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 4: was just like, I'm going to do a podcast or 83 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 4: just tell people, like listen what you just said, a 84 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 4: podcast about thinking through the things that you actually say. 85 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: Right, Like do you even hear yourself right? So you're 86 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: in California. 87 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: I've interviewed a few people who have left California, Dave Rubin, Bridgard, Fetesie, 88 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: and they've left for Texas. 89 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: You're still there. 90 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 3: Do you think about leaving? Do you consider it. 91 00:04:54,560 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 4: The single day I think about leaving? For us, though, 92 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 4: for my family, that's just not a thing that's going 93 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 4: to happen. We live in California. That's that My husband's 94 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 4: job is here. It's a job that supports our family, 95 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 4: and it won't be forever we but we are making 96 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 4: plans to leave when the time comes. I also have 97 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 4: a daughter who's almost finished with high school, so we 98 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 4: certainly don't want to pull her out. I mean, I 99 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 4: always say this because I get this. I get asked 100 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 4: this question a lot by conservatives, like why are you 101 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 4: still there? When are you going to leave? And look, 102 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 4: I'll leave when God says it's time to get up 103 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 4: and go. I definitely believe that, you know, everything happens 104 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 4: for a reason, and for now, for whatever reason, we're 105 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 4: in California. And I've always said I think it is 106 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 4: more dangerous to be some more comfortable outside of God's 107 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 4: will than to be some are uncomfortable inside of God's will. 108 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 4: This is where we are. So now that being said, 109 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 4: it's not like I'm loving it. 110 00:05:58,640 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 3: No, I get that. 111 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: I feel like when we were considering leaving, and I 112 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: was getting all of these like just move, just move? 113 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 3: Why do you keep complaining about New York? 114 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: Just move? 115 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 3: I think people don't get that. 116 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: It's not an easy decision, especially if you have kids, 117 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: and it's not like I could just pick up and go. 118 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: So where would you go? Like, what's the what's the 119 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: thinking if you were someday to maybe leave California? 120 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 2: What's what's on your radar? 121 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 4: Not sure I can do winter again? That is it? 122 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 3: I hear you. It's seventy degrees. I'm in a sweater. 123 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 3: It's like, what is this time? 124 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's seventy here California. And the older I get to, 125 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 4: the more I'm like, oh, slip and fall on ice. 126 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 4: Not sure if I want to, yeah, go back to that. 127 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 4: But you know, we don't know, We don't We don't 128 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 4: really know. A lot's going to depend on where our 129 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 4: kids land. Ultimately, we have a son in college and 130 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 4: we'll want to be close to them, and it just 131 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 4: depends on where things take us. I just at the moment, 132 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 4: at this point in my life, I can't imagine ending 133 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 4: my life in California to be somewhere, but somewhere in 134 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 4: the South. I don't want to go to Texas, Carol. 135 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: Why why I know Texas? 136 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan, so I feel 137 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: like that's my natural second choice. 138 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 4: Some of my best friends are in Texas, and as 139 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 4: you well know, just about everybody in California is left. Yeah, Texas, 140 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 4: but it's just never been my cup of tea as 141 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 4: far as oh, I think this is a place I 142 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 4: want to live. I don't have anything against Texas, you know, 143 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 4: It's not like I'm like ew Texas. I just I 144 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 4: don't think it's a place I want to land. 145 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: I feel like you'd look great in like a cowboy hat, 146 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: cal girl hat. 147 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 4: I can rock a cowboy hat for yuh and uh. 148 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 4: I love I love the I love how everyone everything's 149 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 4: just so American in Texas. 150 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: And I love the giant flags. Like my kids every 151 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: time we're there, they're like, that's an even bigger flag 152 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: than the last flag. 153 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 3: It's like, you know, a square block. Yeah, it's amazing. 154 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: I you know, there's a lot, a lot obviously going 155 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: for it. But again, it's tough to pick up your 156 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: family and move. It's tough to imagine yourself in a 157 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: new place. It's there's a lot of considerations. And I 158 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: fully understand you. That's why, you know, I'm not pressuring you. 159 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, just thinking, thinking out loud, where Kira ends. 160 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I took the. 161 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 4: Journey with you, Carol, all through no when you were 162 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 4: you know, I was with you on that journey and knowing, 163 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like I knew exactly what you 164 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 4: were feeling because I think my kids are a little 165 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 4: older than yours, but same type of situation, high cost 166 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: of living, crazy COVID restrictions. Suddenly you're looking at what's 167 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 4: gonna how I gonna develop you? And yeah, I mean 168 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 4: I I felt it when you decided to move, like 169 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 4: people didn't understand what a big deal that waits for you. 170 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 4: That was not an easy decision. 171 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 3: No, it wasn't. It was you know, again, life changes. 172 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 3: What are you going to do? 173 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: So you recently posted that you've been sober for one 174 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: hundred days. I think it's like one hundred and few 175 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: days now. But you also noted that you're not an 176 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: alcoholic and you just needed a break. So how's it been. 177 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 4: It's been good. So I got to a point recently 178 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 4: where I felt like, oh, I'm drinking a lot, Like 179 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 4: there's not a day really that goes by where I 180 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 4: don't have a drink at least at the end of 181 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 4: the day. And I I've been going through some life changes. 182 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 4: I lost my father last spring, and obviously that triggers 183 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,239 Speaker 4: some things. And I just thought, you know what, I'm 184 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 4: not feeling things. I think I'm drinking and not feeling. 185 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 4: So I decided to challenge myself. Took a sober month 186 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 4: and just white knuckled it for a month, kind of 187 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 4: like I did that by just not going anywhere or 188 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 4: doing anything. And yeah, but I realized, this is no 189 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 4: way to live. And if I'm only doing this to 190 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 4: look forward to the next drink, perhaps that's a problem. 191 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 4: And so I challenged myself to do it through the holidays, 192 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 4: because I thought, if he can do it through the holidays, right, 193 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 4: all right, And Carol, I got to three months, which 194 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 4: is recent, and my whole brain has changed. My whole 195 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 4: way of thinking. The change they say after three months 196 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 4: of sobriety or brain changes again at six and again 197 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 4: at twelve. Bridget Betasy will tell you two years was 198 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 4: a big thing for her, and ironically it was her 199 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 4: that really made me take this step. Years ago, I 200 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 4: was on her podcast when she was still in LA 201 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 4: We met up personally for the first time. I joined 202 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 4: a podcast. We're talking about stress and she in recovery. 203 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 4: She's recovering alcoholic and addict. And she said, I said, 204 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 4: how do you deal with stress? Because when I have stress, 205 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 4: I go have a drink. I have a glass of wine. 206 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 4: And she said, well, sobriety is really about learning to 207 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 4: sit in your discomfort and feel those things. And it 208 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 4: always sat with me, you know, I never forgot it. 209 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: That's very interesting. 210 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, And so what I figured out at three months 211 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 4: is that I'm sitting in my discomfort and that's absolutely 212 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:37,239 Speaker 4: necessary to like feel all these things that are very uncomfortable, 213 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 4: Like I'm not feeling comfortable even right now, like today, 214 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, I've got all kinds of things going 215 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: through my brain. But these are issues that I have 216 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 4: just sort of pushed to the side for ten twenty years. 217 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 4: Maybe my whole life right and now for the first time, 218 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 4: I'm like facing them so interesting abiety has done for 219 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 4: me so far. 220 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:58,480 Speaker 2: Well. 221 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: So I had Bridgard on the show and she talked 222 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: about how, you know, I mean, she went through like 223 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: the one day at a time where you know, she 224 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: couldn't imagine one day of being sober, and then she 225 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: couldn't imagine a week of being sober and so on, 226 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: and now it's been you know, I think over a 227 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: decade for her. So do you feel like you have, 228 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: you know, a date that you want to hit now 229 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: now that it's been over one hundred days or is 230 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: it just one day at a time and we'll see 231 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: where this goes. 232 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 4: I don't think I'm at one day at a time anymore. 233 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 4: I think for the first little while I was, and 234 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 4: now that I'm at three months, I had already committed 235 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 4: through the new year. But I heard people say how 236 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 4: your brain changes, but actually experiencing it, it's been interesting. 237 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 4: So I want to see what happens at a year. 238 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: So I'm going to push for a year. And like 239 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 4: I said, I'm not an alcoholic, and that is one 240 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 4: thing also that concerned me, maybe that I was becoming one, 241 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 4: or that I could become one. Yeah, and now that 242 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 4: I'm sober, I understand now that I wasn't. But that 243 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 4: doesn't mean that variety, you know, isn't something that's good 244 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 4: and healthy and to strive right and can help you. 245 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 4: So I'm looking forward to a year. Two hundred and 246 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 4: sixty five is more days to go. Maybe I'll pop 247 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 4: in and let you know if my brains anymore. 248 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 3: I love that. 249 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: So you're very well known, you had a hip book, 250 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: you have a show. I mean, you're on TV a lot, 251 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: you have a great family. 252 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 3: Do you feel like you've made it? 253 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 4: No, has anyone ever answered that question? 254 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: Yes? 255 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, some people have. 256 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: I as, yeah, well, I ask everybody, and he answered that, yes, 257 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: a lot of. 258 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: People have answered yes. 259 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: And it's like Mary Catherine Ham answered yes, some other 260 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: people Yeah, people definitely answer yes. You know, it really 261 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: just depends. Like one of the first interviews I did 262 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 1: was with Klay Travis and he, you know, had famously 263 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: sold his company for you know, X millions of dollars, 264 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: and I asked him if he had made it, if 265 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: he felt like he made it, and he was like, no, 266 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: absolutely not. So it's a different definition for everybody. Is 267 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: the point there. 268 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: So you don't think you've made it? 269 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,439 Speaker 4: No, I don't even I'm not sure what it is. 270 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 4: I mean, this is even my first career. This isn't 271 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 4: even my second career. This is like my fourth career. 272 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 3: Well, okay, you're rocking it though. 273 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 4: So I heard of the jack of all trades, and 274 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 4: this is a career I took because I'm a trained actress. 275 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 4: That's actually what I do. What I did before I 276 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 4: got married and before I had kids, And then when 277 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 4: I had kids, I decided I wanted to stay home 278 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 4: and raise those kids and acting as a hustle, right, 279 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 4: And so I gave I hate to say I gave 280 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 4: that up and makes it sound like a sacrifice. 281 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 3: I changed. 282 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, And but I needed a little bit more than 283 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 4: only being home, So I took up writing. And I'm 284 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 4: very opinionated. So that more for you. 285 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 3: Really, I know. 286 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 4: Here I am. So have I made it? No, Im, 287 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 4: I don't think I'll ever feel like I've made it. 288 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 4: I don't know that I'm that person. 289 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: Do you Can you see yourself ever going back to acting? 290 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 4: Yeah? And I do a little now, you know, I've 291 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 4: sort of started dipping my toes back in as you know, Carol, 292 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 4: I work with the Babylon b a lot. I also 293 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 4: have some of my own projects. I'm a producer here 294 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 4: at California in my own right. And I a few 295 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 4: years ago I did my first short film was a 296 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 4: reimagining of Harriet Tubman as an action hero. It's called Tucase. 297 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 4: Minty was her what she was really called. Her real 298 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 4: name is Ara Minta, and so her friends and family 299 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 4: called her Minty, and that Harriet was her mother's name 300 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 4: that she took on later on in life. So I 301 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 4: did that and that's still on YouTube. You conbined it, okay, Minty? Yes? So? 302 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 4: Uh yeah. And my daughter and I are currently working 303 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 4: on a on a short independent horror film that we're 304 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 4: filming on our iPhones right now. 305 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: What is it about? 306 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 4: Uh, it's just a little comedy film about what happens 307 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 4: when that scary serial killer, our monster is behind you, 308 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 4: but you are too busy in your phone to it. 309 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: I don't know where you got that idea. Is it 310 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: just like looking around and seeing a bunch of zombies 311 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: on their phones? 312 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 3: Well, I can't wait to see that. 313 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: Where are you thinking about releasing it? Or how are you? 314 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: How are you gonna, you know, handle kind. 315 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 4: Of We're going contribution to our favorite film festival, the 316 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 4: Telly Ride Horror Show, which is say October and Tell 317 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 4: You Ride Colorado. We go every year as a family. 318 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 4: My daughter and I are big horror fans especially, and 319 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 4: then we drag the guys with us. So we're going 320 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 4: to submit it. 321 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: I love it. It's really amazing. 322 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: I love that you do something super creative while also, 323 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, kind of fighting the good fight. 324 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 3: We're going to take a. 325 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: Quick break and be right back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. 326 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: What would you say is our largest societal or cultural 327 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: problem in America? 328 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: And do you think it's solvable? 329 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 4: The breakdown of the nuclear family without a doubt, And 330 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 4: if you were asking me this as a black woman, 331 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 4: as a Black American, I would say more even more specifically, 332 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 4: the absence of fathers in Western society, but American society 333 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 4: in particular. I've always said it's one of the reasons 334 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 4: why I got into politics, because I have a heart 335 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 4: for my community in the black community, one of my communities, 336 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 4: I guess I have many, and I have always believed, 337 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:36,239 Speaker 4: you know, we're the canary and the coal mine. And 338 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 4: what happens in our community will eventually spread to the 339 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 4: larger American society. And we've seen that with the breakdown 340 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 4: of the family. How the government really has interrupted the 341 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 4: family structure and process, and it's like chaos and crime 342 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 4: and declining education numbers. And I think even empirically, if 343 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 4: you just look around, you're going to see the the consequences, 344 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 4: right looking at kids from broken homes, which I'm one, 345 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 4: or looking at kids from nuclear homes. And we know 346 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 4: the statistics, because this is our job, is what we do. 347 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 4: I know what the statistics say. And if you're married 348 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 4: and you have married parents, you know you're almost guaranteed 349 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 4: to not live in poverty. You have those two things. 350 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 4: So I really feel strongly about the nuclear family and 351 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 4: the importance of is it solvable. Well, that's a larger issue. Yeah, 352 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 4: it's it's solvable if more people get married, I guess, yeah, 353 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 4: it's solvable. How do we make marriage great again? 354 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 3: Well, that's the age question, right. 355 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: So my monologue for this episode was actually about Melissa 356 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: Kearney's new book, The Two Parent Privilege, how Americans stopped 357 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: getting married and started falling behind. 358 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 3: And one of the. 359 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: Things that she says, which is really interesting to me 360 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: is that marriage still people still aspire to marriage, Like 361 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: marriage still gets high marks in studies and surveys like 362 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: do you want to get married? Yes, everybody says yes, 363 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: but then nobody does or not nobody, but you know, 364 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: a low number. 365 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: So how to turn that around? 366 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: And you know, some of her solutions that I mentioned 367 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: this my monologue are government related, you know, put more 368 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: money into marriage, you know, classes or whatever. And I 369 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 1: don't think any of that works. And I think part 370 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: of it is because, you know, government's not cool, Like 371 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: there's nothing cool like sexy about government programs about like 372 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: how to get married or how to be in love. 373 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 3: I think it's going to be. 374 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: A wider cultural solution. 375 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 3: I just don't know where to begin with that. 376 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 4: Well, let me push back a little. Yeah, I hear 377 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 4: this point a lot, particularly from conservatives, because I'm like you, 378 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 4: government is not cool, and the less of it in 379 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 4: my life the better. That being said, I do understand 380 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 4: the power of incentives. I think this is why it 381 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 4: can't be a littletarian. I do understand the power of incentive. 382 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 2: Sure, and it's not the solution. 383 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 4: There are whole solutions. I believe you're I agree with 384 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 4: you that it is cultural and we've got it, you know, 385 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 4: addressed it on a cultural level also. But government can 386 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 4: incentivize things that are good for government, and marriage is 387 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 4: good for government absolutely, so tax breaks. You know, in 388 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 4: Canada you even get I'm Canadian, as your listeners may 389 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 4: or may not know, I'm an American. Now, everybody calm down. 390 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 4: But in Canada you still to this day you get 391 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 4: a check for every kid you have every month, yes, 392 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 4: until they're eighteen, And that is to encourage you to 393 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 4: have children, because having children help support the huge tax 394 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 4: space that they need to support their socialism. Makes some 395 00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 4: kind of sense. Yes, I do believe that. That's why 396 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 4: I was against, even though I have no problem with 397 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 4: with gay couples forming relationships and calling it whatever they want. 398 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 4: And uh, that is why I really was against the 399 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 4: redefining of marriage as well. Keeping marriage as a man 400 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 4: and a woman has an incentive for government. It makes 401 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 4: our government better and stronger, and so it it it 402 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 4: bodes well for any government to incentivize moral behavior. 403 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 3: I'm on board with incentivizing for sure. 404 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 1: I just I see that in socialist countries in Europe 405 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: they have been unable to incentivize despite you know, all 406 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: the benefits. I wouldn't mind if we started with that. Hey, 407 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, the government wants to send me a check 408 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: per kid. 409 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 2: I've got three. 410 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: Let's let's get that those checks rolling. I have done 411 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: my part, but I just I worry that it's a 412 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: like I get a larger problem of cool where I 413 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of you know, Instagram TikTok, 414 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: where singlehood is portrayed is really like fun and fresh 415 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: and cool, whereas married life is boring and a drag, 416 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: and it's hard to get around that. It's hard to 417 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: convince young people like they're lying to you. This is 418 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: a lie, you're being sold to total fiction. 419 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 4: Well it's hard to convince young people as well, because 420 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 4: we don't make them engage in delayed gratification anymore. 421 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, So. 422 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 4: Everybody feels like everybody's raised with this idea that you're 423 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 4: supposed to be happy all the time and instantly, and 424 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 4: so marriages work. A marriage is hard work. It requires 425 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 4: a level of commitment that we don't ask of anybody. 426 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 4: We're not even asking kids to commit to their own gender. 427 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 2: These days, you know anything. 428 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 4: Right, So the idea of commitment and what it means, 429 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 4: let's go back to the Pence rule. Right. 430 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yes, that was. 431 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 4: Such a big deal, and everyone's like, oh my god, 432 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 4: he's a rapists, get control his rape phantasy, so we 433 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 4: can't be around a woman. These are this is a 434 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 4: twister version of perfection culture. These are people who expect 435 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 4: you to already have it together as soon as you 436 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 4: step outside your house. So you shouldn't need willpower, right, 437 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,399 Speaker 4: you shouldn't need protection, You shouldn't need boundaries. If you 438 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 4: need boundaries, you're weak when boundaries are the key to discipline. 439 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 4: Discipline is the key to success and whatever you're doing. 440 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 4: So there's no successful person that goes out there says 441 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 4: I don't have any boundaries, right, and I'm not going 442 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 4: to protect myself from temptation or rumor or whatever because 443 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 4: I'm already perfect. It's just we're setting kids up for failure, right. 444 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 4: I wonder they don't want to try for these forever things. 445 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, it's funny. The Mike Pennce rule. 446 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: I wrote about my own marriage rules for the now 447 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 1: defunct teach Street website, but I also I got so much. 448 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 3: Hate mail after that. 449 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: But basically, my husband and I don't ever come home 450 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: and say like, oh, I met this great, you know, 451 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: guy girl at work and we're going to go have 452 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: dinner together tonight. 453 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 2: Like what's the problem with that? 454 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: I mean a lot of couples wouldn't allow that, or 455 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: they just don't verbalize it to each other. But whereas 456 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: we have sort of a verbal understanding of like what's 457 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: appropriate or inappropriate in our marriage and things that we 458 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: would accept and things we would not accept. So it's 459 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: not like we you know, a lot of people misunderstood 460 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: the Mike Pence rule as you're not allowed to have. 461 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 2: Friends of the opposite sex. 462 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: Of course we are, but it's not going to be 463 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: like you know, snuggling on the couch friends. 464 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 4: They wanted to misunderstand they do. I mean, they want 465 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 4: to see him as some misogynistic right, so Donald Trump 466 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 4: junior rapist, But in reality, adults understand that, you know, 467 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 4: any good experience has boundaries too, and your marriage is 468 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 4: something to be protected, and it's not like having right 469 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 4: fantasies when you go out with someone of the opposite sex. 470 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 4: It's right, but they're just you're putting guardrails up no 471 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 4: matter what, You're protecting yourself from rumor and the innuendos, yes, 472 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 4: or from leading someone else on or again, or just 473 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 4: falling into your own temptation. I trust my husband implicitly. 474 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 4: We've never had issues with infidelity in our yesterday was 475 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 4: twenty five years for us. No congratulations, thank you with infidelity. 476 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean I throw them out there to 477 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 4: the wolves, you know. 478 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 3: Right right. 479 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: And I think it's also a misconception that it's only men, 480 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: like I think that the guardrails exist for women too. 481 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 3: It's it's everybody, everybody. 482 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 4: Like seventy three percent of divorces are initiated by women. 483 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 4: And I don't think that's seventy three percent of women cheating, 484 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 4: that's seventy But women are emotional, and you know that's 485 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 4: seventy three percent. I think of women who maybe got 486 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 4: emotionally caught up or weren't being served emotionally, and so yeah, 487 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 4: women will go out and find that connection elsewhere as well. 488 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. 489 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So end here with your best tip for my 490 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: listeners on how they can improve their lives. 491 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 4: This is a good one. So recently, I would say 492 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 4: this is another part of my sober journey and what 493 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 4: I'm learning as I'm releasing my brain from that I 494 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 4: would say, it's really important to listen to your body 495 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 4: and understand your body's responses, and I'll give you an example. 496 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 4: So for me, one thing I've learned, and I do 497 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 4: work with a therapist also, and I have off and 498 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 4: on through a lot of my adult life when I 499 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,880 Speaker 4: feel like I need it. But one thing I've been 500 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 4: learning is that I isolate when I'm stressed. So I 501 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 4: will leave the home. I actually have a little space 502 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 4: in this house that I go to and I just 503 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 4: sort of maybe I'll get on my computer and play 504 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 4: solitaire or just not talk to anybody, be alone. And 505 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 4: I would have said a year ago that that response 506 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 4: was because I just don't like people, which I know 507 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 4: is very odd for people who listen to me and 508 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 4: see me on TV game I'm very friendly person of all, 509 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 4: But that underneath is the care that's like go away 510 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 4: and everybody. And now I realize that that's actually a 511 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 4: freeze response. So that's when a problem comes up, that's 512 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 4: that's my body freezing in one place, not being able 513 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 4: to address the problem. And so instead of me framing 514 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,919 Speaker 4: that as oh, I just don't like people, which I 515 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 4: think I'm not alone in that right now, I understand that, No, 516 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 4: that's actually my body telling me something's wrong. There's a problem, 517 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 4: and it actually needs to be addressed. Your response might 518 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 4: be different. Maybe you're you call yourself an emotional eater. 519 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 4: Maybe you get headaches. Maybe you say I haven't saw yet, 520 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 4: I don't sleep well. I believe those are all your 521 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 4: body's responses, right. Your body's more in tune with your 522 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 4: feelings and what you need than you think. So listen 523 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 4: to your body. 524 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: I love that, and I want you to come back 525 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: when you're at a year and let me know how 526 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: you're feeling and thinking, because that was really, really interesting. 527 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on, Kira. You are awesome. 528 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: Hope to see you again soon. 529 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 4: My pleasure. 530 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: Carol, thanks so much for joining us on The Carol 531 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: Markowitz Show. 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