WEBVTT - Bloomberg Surveillance TV: January 22, 2025 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:06.760 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.440 This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Jonathan Ferrow, along 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:18.360 with Lisa Bromwitz and a Marie Hordern. Join us each 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.360 day for insight from the best in markets, economics, and 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.720 geopolitics from our global headquarters in New York City. We 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.400 are live on Bloomberg Television weekday mornings from six to 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:31.000 nine am Eastern. Subscribe to the podcast on Apple, Spotify 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.479 or anywhere else you listen, and as always on the 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.959 Bloomberg Terminal and the Bloomberg Business app. Joining us now 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.280 a happy man, Daniel Pinto, JP Morgan Chase President. Daniel, 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:41.199 It's good to see you, sir. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:42.600 Thank you for me. 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:43.320 It's great here. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.360 Do you feel happy? Do you feel lighter now you 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:47.640 know you're stepping down and Retiringhi have it. 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.360 I'm in the company for more than four years. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.440 I add my contribution to the success of the company. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:57.120 The company is in an amazing place at the moment. 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.680 It is the right time to embrace the next generation, 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.720 to work with Jamie and prepare the company for the 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.360 future and his succession. So I feel good about the 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:10.720 opportunity company gave me my contribution and looking forward to 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.080 a very violence life going forward. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:16.320 You are living the life that we all aspire to. 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.280 Why now and what do you expect the next twelve 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:20.280 to eighteen months. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:20.440 To look like? 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:22.880 So it's very simple in the next This has been 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:27.160 planned for a long period of time, and now is 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.960 the time for me to transition a very very smooth way. 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.600 This transition will go over a couple of years. I 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:38.800 will my job will be to help the management team 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:42.880 to continue advising Jamie and the war in issues that 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.560 there is strategic and important for JP Morgan and for 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.200 the future of the company. So it is a right time. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.760 It is the right group that I helped Jamie. 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:53.600 To build up to. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.040 So I think that I feel good about where the 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:58.360 company is and where I am now. 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.440 I've been a JP Morgan and it's Affilia Banks for 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.720 poor decades. It's a long time. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:05.120 You've been to a lot of Davoss. 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.200 You've seen a lot of different cycles of enthusiasm. How 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.760 enthusiastic is the optimism around the deal making and some 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.440 of the mergers and acquisitions that could come down the pike. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:16.240 I think that is quite enthusiastic. 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.320 It was twenty four was a very good year too, 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.640 So you think about them. An historical average of volumes 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:27.400 around four trillion a year in twenty three, it was 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.200 around three point two, last year three point five. We 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.040 think that this year could get to around for trillion, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.640 which is historical average. And most important, we hope that 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:40.200 the timing but there in the US to approve transaction 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.560 is not as long. It's moved from six months in 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:45.160 the bus to running eighteen months. 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:46.560 Hopefully we go go back. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.600 It's not just to announce new lys, also to close 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.079 new There's an environment is said for that. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:54.800 Let's talk about the environment. Is it just a regulatory 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:56.839 shift that we need or do you find that four 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:59.799 percent five percent interest rates of how people back as well? 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.040 I think that if you think about the US economy 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.400 has grown very well in twenty four over three percent. 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.560 It's likely to grow over two percent this year, So 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:15.200 the environment is good. I think that even that is 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.800 an economy that you don't see and balances that tell 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:20.960 you that it is an economy that is about to 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:24.880 go into recession. This cycle could continue for a period 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.519 of time. There is plenty of monetization that needs to 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.480 be done in the sponsor space. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:35.160 That is like essentially the evaluations. 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.520 In the US that are much higher than any other places. 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:43.800 It's also incentivizeding merging into US companies, So I think 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:45.320 that it would be a good environment. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:47.800 Which way to one bank yesterday who suggested that maybe 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:49.360 these US companies could go on a bit of a 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.560 shopping spread in places like Europe with evaluations were depressed. 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.880 You engage any active conversations right now in companies looking 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:56.640 to do those kind of things. 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.640 So we are always engaged with clients all over the world, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:04.080 and there is a lot of optimism everywhere about where 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:05.120 the US could do. 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.080 So therefore, yes, there is dialogue everywhere. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.480 So everyone sounds very optimistic, and then you go to 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.480 some of these forries in the evening and people say 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.239 there's a lot of enthusiasm. What actually will get done 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.279 we're less clear on, just simply because there is that 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:23.560 question mark to John's point about benchmark rates, about the 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:25.920 fact that the economy isn't slowing down so much, so 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.240 why would they go any lower? And what happens if 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.440 they go higher still because of debt and deficit. 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.120 I tell you how I think about it. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:36.400 When you think about the US economy, isn't a good 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.440 place there not imbalance is consumer is in a good place, 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.800 the corporate sector is in a good place. Inflation hasn't 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.320 yet got to the levels that it should be, and 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:48.919 the deficit is high. And then you have policies coming 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:54.919 from immigration, policies started physical the policies and others. 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.200 So at the end, the government is about growth. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:04.000 So therefore I hope they will balance the implementation of 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:08.120 those policies in a way that it doesn't either overhit 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.960 the economy or triggers a recessions. So I think that 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.960 the hope is because of that, because the economy is 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:20.240 in a good place, and certain things like rational revelation, 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.200 I don't like to talk about the regulation. Rational regulation 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.200 in our sector, in any other sector could be good 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:30.960 for growth, but if things go too far, then the 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:32.200 fact will have may. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.840 Have to hydrate and deal with inflation. Hopefully doesn't happen. 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.680 I guess what I'm getting at. Some people are asking 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.640 what potentially derail this optimism? Is there anything that you 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.120 could see derailing this optimism this year at a time 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.560 where people are basically counting on this sort of rational 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.680 regulation or some of the other growth measures. 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.719 It's an extent, is what I said like inflation. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.080 Could be that economy goes a bit too fast and 0:05:58.279 --> 0:05:59.880 doesn't allow inflation. 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.080 To to come down. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:05.919 That geo political space is still in a challenging place, 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:12.200 though there is some signs of potential improvement there. And 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.040 at the end is like any other policy, you can 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:16.840 do the right amount, you can do too much of 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.120 do little. Hopefully the right amount, the right amount is 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:24.520 done in a way that doesn't really derail. An economy 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.479 that is not ready for a recession is an economy 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.760 that is ready to continue to grow at a decent pace. 0:06:31.000 --> 0:06:34.119 Daniel, A lot's changed in your banking career, tremendous amount, 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:36.440 and now a bunch of alternative asset managers are looking 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.000 for the activity that traditionally was on a bank balance sheet. 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.839 Can you walk us through as you depart, how different 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:45.039 banking might look in the years ahead compared to when 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:45.839 you first started. 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:48.120 Well, it's very different. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.479 I think that is in a better place, with more scale, 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.200 better quality of service, is a better quality of products, 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.760 and a safer industry that probably has ever been. I 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.000 think that you are referring to private credit. I think 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:06.120 that banks we've been lending for two hundred years, and 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:09.039 private credit is no more than a normal loan. So 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.960 I think that we feel very good and where we 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.320 are in order to compete in that space. And at 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.240 the end, so what is how we're rejected to be 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.800 able to provide the best possible service to a client. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.160 So therefore, what is it is in a certain transaction 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.400 you will be able to offer a syndicative facility or 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:31.680 you will be to offer that a lending facility. Both 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.240 markets will tend to converge some way or the other. 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:36.160 And we are in an. 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.400 Amazing position to compete because we do have relationship with 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.400 all those clients and we offer them not just the loan, 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:46.200 We offer them a bunch of activities. 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.840 We saw a relationship developed between Mark row AND's Apollo 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.800 and Jane Fraser City and that'nced the end of last year. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:54.680 Are you exploring similar partnerships we have? 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.520 We have plenty of partnerships, several where we have coll 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:02.440 landing facilities. We rather as a managers and that they 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.240 want to participate in the origination. The issue for all 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.400 these funds at the moment is that they are getting 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:11.720 a huge amount of influence and they may not be 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:13.000 enough accests to deploy. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:14.200 So therefore to. 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.360 Have a partnership with someone like us, a city or 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:20.800 any other to be able to participate in the origination 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:22.920 of these banks. It is a good thing we are 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.680 doing the same, not just with one, with as many. 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:27.000 As we can. 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.080 That kindt dynamic gets people worried. Not to be negative 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:33.800 Nelly here, but you know, going to worries we're going forward. 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:36.400 I realize, okay, I. 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.400 Realized that I'm sounding pretty negative. But I'm wondering, given 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:41.880 how much the flows have come in to the private 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.760 credit sphere and how they've been searching for ways to 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.760 be deployed, is there anything that makes you nervous within 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:50.360 this ecosystem that's grown up. 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:51.240 Very quickly. 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.480 At the moment now, I think that when you look 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.720 at these funds, they don't have too much leverage. Their 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:03.160 leverage one one and a have times so from that 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:07.520 point of view, particularly in the more in the bigger space, bigger. 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:08.640 Loans and not so much. 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.200 The only thing that made me post and think about 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.160 it is there is a lot of direct lending going 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:17.960 into small business. There is a lot of direg lending 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.320 going into the smaller side of middle market, and this 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.640 industry in the current form hasn't been tested through a 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.480 down turn cycle because when COVID happened, it was all 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.800 subsidized by the different governments. So how these funds are 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.240 going to behave in a downturn with small business is 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.000 something that you want. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:41.600 To be concerned about. It you want to keep an 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:41.960 eye on. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.920 But I don't think that there is a systemic re. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:48.480 Issue in this space in the short term. The components 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:49.840 are not there for that to happen. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.480 Then you find a question. That's the golf game, It's. 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:56.480 Okay, it's been deteriorating's a very really worse. 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:57.520 What's the handicap now? 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:02.679 It has gone from five to eight? Wipfully to do it? 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:02.839 Now? 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.439 Can you appreciate your time, sir? Congratulations on a fantastic career. 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:18.760 Now I can do a more formal introduction to the 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.680 former US Secretary of State John Carey, also co executive 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:25.199 chair of Galvanized Climate Solutions. Secretary carry good to see you, sir, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:27.840 start again. We're starting can help be more rugby. I'm 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:29.000 happy to see you, you know I am. 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:29.720 Thank you, sir. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.880 The new president says, drill, baby, drill. I want to 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.480 understand how you feel about that and what kind of 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.440 trajectory you think we might be going on through the 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:38.200 next four years. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.000 Well, I think I think the President's correct that we 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:45.800 need an abundance of what we call firm energy. 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.000 We need to make sure that America. 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:53.400 Is leading in the technologies of this this transition to 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:55.440 new energy, clean energy. 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.000 But I would say that build. 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:03.880 Baby, builder, I mean drill mayby drill ought to be 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:07.720 replaced by build, may be build, because that's what we 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.800 need to do in all aspects of energy. There will 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:14.199 be higher demand. He's absolutely correct, and I'm glad to 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.200 see a five hundred million dollar infrastructure announced because that's 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:19.800 going to be the key to our doing it, and 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.319 it's going to be the key to leading in AI 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:29.480 BUTT and there's a huge butt. Data centers demand a 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:32.280 massive amount of energy, and. 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.280 That's going to become very competitive. 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.760 Will that energy be provided by clean energy or is 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.880 it going to just add to the problem we have 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.520 of a warming planet with increased intensity to our storms, 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:49.800 more damage all around the world. We haven't suddenly lost 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.840 the connection between the choices we make about how we 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.320 provide energy and its impact just because we elected a 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:01.400 new president. So we've got to stay tuned into the science. 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.000 We have to stay tuned into the marketplace, and the 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:08.400 marketplace is going to move predominantly in the direction of 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:13.240 this new energy. To wit, last year, about almost two 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.200 trillion dollars went into venture capital for new energy, clean 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:19.520 energy systems. One trillion went into fossil fueld. It's a 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.560 two to one first time ever shift in the marketplace. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.160 And if you look at what's happening in that marketplace, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.600 other technologies are coming on, like wind Texas, the home 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:34.240 of fossil fuels in America, that is now the leading 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.360 state for the deployment of wind turbines. So I think 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.640 the marketplace is going to continue to invest in moving 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:43.120 this direction on a global basis. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.679 Is that the marketplace or government intervention. 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.679 Last the marketplace. It's happening all around the world. 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:54.040 I mean, I've been recently in the Far East in Singapore, and. 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:57.920 Recently also in the Middle East. 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:01.440 In most of the Middle Eastern countries, everyone is engaged 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:06.120 in this transition. UA a major producer of oil and gas, 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.320 is also a major producer of new nuclear plants. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:11.920 They've got four new nuclear plants. 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.719 They have a vast array of solar one of the 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.680 largest fields in the world, and they are determined to 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.960 have a higher level of energy produced by renewable energy. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.080 The building on John is talking about, I'm thinking about, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:27.080 let's say, the electric vehicle credits, and there was this 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.240 idea that we would really transition people to vehicles that 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.800 were considered cleaner. And yet China did it successfully because 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:35.800 they have the resources to do that. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:37.560 The United States doesn't. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:39.400 They need to import them, and it actually makes it 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.200 in the US more dependent on other places or some 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:46.160 of the government policies misguided in what was necessary to 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.400 actually tackle the problem. From an economic perspective. 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.360 I think we've worked very hard to open up new 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.480 supply chains, and we did open up new supply chains 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:59.560 India as an example, we were invested at about five 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:03.240 hundred million dollars in trying to build, not trying to 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:07.960 in building the largest production plant in the world. And yes, 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:12.600 China has in fact captured much of that market, and 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.559 they captured it frankly with unfair trade practices, which is 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.280 one of the reasons that's a legitimate issue. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.880 Between US and them, and we have to work that out. 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.520 Solar was really worked on and developed by the United 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.160 States and Germany and then China stepped in. There was 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:35.080 a massive amount of dumping into our country and. 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.440 The production gravitated towards China. 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.480 But today China is now I mean, many people complain, 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:45.600 including the President. President said China is not doing what 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:49.520 it should be doing well. China is the largest producer 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:56.320 of renewable energy and deployer of renewable energy anywhere in 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.160 the world, including more than all the rest of the 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.680 world put together. So China is now commanding the market 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:04.560 just by virtue of its production level. 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:06.640 We need to get into that and compete. 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:07.480 But it raises this. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:13.440 Question national security versus cleaner energy. It kind of pits 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.760 two of your babies together. It sort of raises this question, 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:18.280 which do you prioritize. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:24.320 The climate crisis is a national security crisis. The fact 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.280 there's are about thirty nine million people wandering around Africa 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.760 elsewhere trying to knock on the door of places where 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.200 they think they can live because they can't live there anymore. 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.680 They can't produce the food anymore, it's getting too hot, 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:40.240 you can't work outdoors, so that's going to increase that challenge. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.360 We had about a million people come in from the 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:48.480 desert into Damascus, which changed the dynamic of the Arab spring. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.400 And of the war in Syria. So there's a linkage. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.880 What happens when water starts being reduced in spread, what 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:00.240 happens when the food basket of Africa implodes as they 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:03.960 can't grow it anymore. These are real threats that smart 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:08.120 people are spending a lot of time analyzing and understanding, 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.480 and within the Pentagon, the Pentagon has called the climate 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:17.160 crisis a threat multiplier. It presents serious challenges to all 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.600 of us, and we need to treat it like the 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.120 security issue that it really is. 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.560 You understand to Lisa's point that we have become more 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.880 dependent on an adversary on China for all the reasons 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.240 that you describe, and yet we have some of these 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.680 critical minerals, these resources within the United States. I'm sure 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.800 you're familiar with the resolution copper deposit that Rio's explored. 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.720 It's ready to go, can support twenty five percent of 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.040 the copper demands of the United States of America, and 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.520 yet for some reason it's been dragging along and hasn't 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.720 been greenlit in a way that it should be. 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:48.800 We have a problem in the United States, which I 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.960 hope will be cured. It's a bipartisan challenge. We need 0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:56.800 Republicans and Democrats alike to come together in order to 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:03.280 do permitting reform. Two thousand gigawatts, a huge amount of energy, 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.840 almost as much as China has today. We have that 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:10.960 backed up at FIRK Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, that has 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:12.679 not been improved over these years. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:13.959 Why politics. 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.040 So I hope we're going to get the politics out 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.760 of the way, and I think President Trump understands that 0:17:19.760 --> 0:17:22.679 that is a way to accelerate the deployment of the 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:24.120 energy that he has now said. 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:26.479 It didn't happen under a Democratic president. 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:31.800 Didn't come pa Sis, Why didn't the immigration bill? Why 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.040 didn't the immigration bill that had been put together with 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.879 you know, Senator Langford from Oklahoma, he worked hard at that. 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.240 It was bipartisan, it was ready to be passed. And 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:48.000 President Trump then then, you know, former President Trump called 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.639 up and said, don't pass this. It will help the Democrats, 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:52.720 it'll help the divide administration look good. 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:54.360 I don't want to get involve themselves. 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.600 Look, I'm not here the start of this conversation. Do 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:58.639 you think do you think they helped themselves for the 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.280 last four years, the Democrats over the last four years 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:02.840 did the party have themselves. 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.800 I think there were serious questions about the message and 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.959 so forth. But I'm not here to be political. I'm 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.560 here to talk about the energy crisis. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:16.159 Isn't that something very political about this crisis? Though it 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:16.639 is by. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:22.920 Starting nation, it seems to have been weaponized, and unfortunately 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:24.880 that's a loss for all Americans. 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.320 For instance, if you. 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.440 Decide, as president has to pull out of Paris, we 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.399 are not at the table. We lose the leverage of 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.800 being at the table. We lose the protection of our 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:37.679 country in terms of something that might be passed or 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:38.560 not passed by. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.600 Not being at the table. Moreover, you know. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.479 Last time he pulled out, there was only one person 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.720 in the entire world of all the leaders in the 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.360 world that pulled out of the Paris Agreement. And by 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.359 the way, the Paris Agreement was still implemented in the 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:57.600 United States because we have thirty seven governors who implement 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.600 renewable portfolio laws and they did that. We had over 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.000 one thousand mayors join into something called the worst stell 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.880 In movement. And that's exactly what's going to happen now. 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.400 And by the way, in this Bloomberg obviously understands. 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:11.760 Better than anybody. 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.320 The power of the marketplace is what is going to 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:19.520 make determinations. Air oil is a commodity and hasn't really 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.280 changed much in price for over one hundred years. But 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:27.679 technology is what is really driving these changes that are 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:32.439 taking place, and I think rather than being driven by 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.679 commodity prices, this revolution is going to be driven by 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:39.159 technology prices, which are now lower than the prices of 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:39.879 fossil fuel. 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.600 You've been a big proponent of not exceeding this one 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.720 point five degree increase in the global climate. You've said 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.240 that you think we're going to blow past it. You're 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.840 working with Tom Steyer of Galvanies try to raise money. 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:53.000 There's been a huge. 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.320 Vibe shift away from ESG where people are saying, well, 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.160 if we can't solve it, whatever, how do you sort 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.800 of see the enthusia siasm to invest in things that 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.120 have been highly politicized. 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.280 Really, that is a great question. 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:07.760 I'm really glad you asked it because it's central to 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:11.000 what we're doing. Nothing that we're doing is based on 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:14.680 reliance on the government to do something, or reliance on. 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.440 A subsidy of some kind. We're not in there to find. 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:24.679 Or to be the source of concessionary funding or to 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:30.000 find the concessionary funding. We are investing in portfolio companies 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:34.439 that have the ability to affect this transition just on 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:39.040 basic fundamentals of business, just looking at the marketplace, and 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:42.000 we will show people how, in fact, and there are 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:46.159 other companies doing this now, how this transition will allow 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:49.480 you to invest and make money and you will be 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.119 able to make better returns than some other things that 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.760 are out there today. That's the basis of this investing. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.440 And when the market sees the way that a whole 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.320 bunch of people or in fact turning this around making money, 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:03.960 AI is going to be a big part of this. 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.680