1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: A couple weeks after our last episode aired, I found 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: myself back in Phoenix, Arizona, at the Maricopa County Superior Courthouse. 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: Laura Owens was due back in court on May twentieth 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: for another hearing about the status of her criminal case. 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: I'd been to this courthouse once before for Laura's pretrial 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: hearing last August, but this time felt different. This podcast 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: was out and millions of people were following along. As 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: I made my way into the courthouse, I ran into 9 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: a familiar face, Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodnick. He made time 10 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: in his schedule to come to this hearing in person 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: just in case something important happened. 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 2: Victims are welcoming court and Clayton was unavailable to go, 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 2: and I was available, so I went to put my 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: eyes on the situation. 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: Woodnick represented both Clayton Eckerd and another victim in Laura's 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: criminal case, Greg Gillespie. We were standing together in the 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: hallway waiting for the hearing to get started when the 18 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: elevator doors opened. Out walked Laura Owens and her mother, 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:07,279 Speaker 1: Jan Black. 20 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: Jan and Laura came out of the elevator and walked 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 2: past me. 22 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: When Jan saw us. She doubled back, walked closer, and 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: then stopped right in front of Woodnick. 24 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 2: Jan said something to the extent of do I need 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 2: to talk to you? And I kind of looked at 26 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 2: her quizzically because I wasn't there to talk to her. 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: Candidly had caught me off guard that she'd walk right 28 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: into my kind of zone. 29 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: I was standing right there watching this awkward interaction play out, 30 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,639 Speaker 1: wondering if Jan was going to say something to me next, 31 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: but she kept her focus on Woodnick. 32 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 3: And then I didn't even say anything. 33 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 2: And then I think she immediately said, why are you 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: staring at me? 35 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: I was kind of a little dumbfouted. I was not 36 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 3: staring at her. 37 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 2: I was just in the courthouse waiting to go into 38 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: the courtroom with other people. It was a little confrontational 39 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: and a little bit uncomfortable. 40 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: I haven't heard from Laura since the last episode of 41 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: the podcast aired later, when Nick told me that was 42 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: his first time interacting with Jan in person. 43 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: I think the only time I've ever seen her in 44 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: three to mention was June of twenty twenty, fourth trial 45 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: with Judge Mada. 46 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: We watched as Laura and her mom walked into the courtroom. 47 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: A few minutes later, we took our seats. The judge 48 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: had a couple other cases to get through first. The 49 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: two defendants before Laura were brought out in striped prison jumpsuits. 50 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: It was a vivid reminder of what we're dealing with here. 51 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: This is a criminal case and Laura's hearing was about 52 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 1: to begin. 53 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 4: This is CR twenty twenty five year zero seven nine 54 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 4: zero five State versus Laura Owen's time set for a 55 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 4: complex case management conference. 56 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: I'm Stephanie Young and this is love trapped. 57 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 5: There's no way. 58 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: You'd better. I'll be razy Hollas if you and a 59 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: never ever. 60 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 6: Trashing. 61 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: The day after our last episode went live, my phone 62 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: started blowing up. Maricopa County Attorney Rachel Mitchell, the one 63 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: who charged Laura criminally, had made an appearance on a 64 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: local Phoenix radio station. They asked her about our podcast. 65 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 6: This is like a big podcast. A lot of people 66 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 6: were talking about this. It's a Scottsdale woman. It's the 67 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 6: celebrity aspect of pregnancy case. Does she try and do 68 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 6: this again? 69 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 7: Well? 70 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 5: There have been different allegations made against her, some of them. 71 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 5: I have to be careful because you know, obviously this 72 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 5: is ongoing, but some of them occurred in a different state, 73 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 5: and I think a lot of people are wanting it 74 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 5: all wrapped up here, And obvious, I only have jurisdiction 75 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 5: over what happened in Maricopa County, but yeah, there are 76 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 5: some allegations that other things happened as well. 77 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 3: That this is a serial behavior on her part. 78 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: This is one of the first times anyone has heard 79 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: Rachel Mitchell comment on Laura's case outside of a press conference. 80 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: The radio host took the opportunity to ask Rachel Mitchell 81 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: a big question, the same one we wondered at the 82 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: end of our podcast. Laura's first plea deal just expired? 83 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: What happens next? 84 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 6: So she reportedly didn't respond to a plea deal by 85 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 6: a recent deadline. Is that right? 86 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 5: I believe that's correct. 87 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: If you watch the video of the interview, there's a 88 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: telling moment right here when you can see Attorney Mitchell 89 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: look off camera checking with someone else in the room. 90 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 6: So yeah, yeah, can you say what she was offered? 91 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 5: I don't think that would be appropriate for me to 92 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 5: discuss the plea offer. 93 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 6: Do you think the case will go to trial? 94 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the next step trial. 95 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: Was the next step. Dozens people sent me this video 96 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: because it looked like we finally had our answer, the 97 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: answer we'd been chasing for weeks. Attorney Mitchell believed Laura's 98 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: case was going to trial without a plea. I wish 99 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: it turned out to be that simple, but with Laura Owens, 100 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: it never is. A lot has happened over the last 101 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: month and a half, so let me catch you up. 102 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: After Attorney Mitchell made that radio appearance, the station posted 103 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 1: a digital article with the headline Laura Owens bachelor fraud 104 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: case going to trial. The news spread like wildfire. I 105 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: saw screenshots on Reddit, social media, and in my DMS. Naturally, 106 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: my first call was to Clayton Eckert to see how 107 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: he was feeling about the news. 108 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 8: I thought at first that that was a good thing, 109 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 8: because I figured if she missed a deadline should be 110 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 8: penalized for it. My initial thought was good, Like she's 111 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 8: now about to get hit with something worse. 112 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: Before I could even hang up with Clayton, a brand 113 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: new headline replaced the last one. This latest headline suggested 114 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: that plea negotiations were still on the table. Basically, they backtracked. 115 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 9: It's really frustrating. 116 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 8: At some point you have to look at the individual 117 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 8: and realize, like, this is just a tactic. 118 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 9: She doesn't need any more time. 119 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 8: Any time extension is just her playing a game. What's 120 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 8: the point of a deadline if it's not actually enforced, 121 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 8: it's just agitating. 122 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: Honestly, no one knew what the hell was going on. 123 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,159 Speaker 1: Was there a new plea being offered? Was she taking 124 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: that plea? We were in the dark and it would 125 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: stay that way until May twentieth at Laura's Complex Case 126 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: Management hearing. This is the hearing that brought me back 127 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: to Arizona. Before it got started, I watched Woodnick and 128 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: jan have that awkward encounter in the hallway. 129 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 4: This is CR twenty twenty five years zero seven nine 130 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 4: zero five State versus Laura Owens. Time set for a 131 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 4: complex case management conference. Can I get appearances? Please? 132 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 7: Aaron Petticomb for Ed Leider for the State Victims Council 133 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 7: is also present as as a Vican advocate. 134 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 3: All right, thank you. 135 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: A complex case management hearing is kind of a routine 136 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: check in to make sure the case is progressing appropriately. 137 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 8: Good more than to judge Christian Waverers in the head 138 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 8: of Laura Owens, who's present out of custy with Dad 139 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 8: the podium. 140 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: Laura was being represented by Christian Looters. It's her third 141 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: attorney on this case. The judge asked both sides if 142 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,119 Speaker 1: there was anything they wanted to discuss, and the state 143 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: jumped in. This is where we finally got an answer 144 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: about if the plea deal had been extended. 145 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 7: I did have a discussion with defense counsel about extending 146 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 7: the plead deadline, considering that he is relatively new to 147 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 7: the case and there have been some relatively minor issues 148 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 7: transmitting discovery. The current expiration date is June twenty sixth. 149 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: The state extended the deadline. The plea deal now expired Friday, 150 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: June twenty sixth, and the next time Laura will be 151 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: in front of the judge will be Monday, June twenty ninth. 152 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: Laura's new attorney, Christian Looters, said they'd be ready for 153 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:10,119 Speaker 1: that date. 154 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 8: We will have everything I think done and decided one 155 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 8: way or another about the plead prior to the twenty sixth, 156 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 8: so I'll have a conversation with mis or later. 157 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: We'll straighten this up, all right. 158 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 4: If there's any kind of problem, then there's no flexibility. 159 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 4: Let me know and we'll work out something for you. 160 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 6: We'll do. 161 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 4: Thank you, Jege Okay, sim Of Owens need to be 162 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: back in my courtroom June twenty ninth at eight forty five. 163 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: If Laura doesn't take the plea deal, her case is 164 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: scheduled for trial. The dates are already set. 165 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 4: And after that you have that final trial management conference 166 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 4: July twenty second at eight forty five. Then trial assignment 167 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 4: at July twenty ninth, which is at nine o'clock. That's 168 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 4: before the trial assignment Judge, fifth floor of this building, 169 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 4: Courtroom five B. If you fail to appear, Warren's an 170 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 4: issue for your asked if don't show up for trial 171 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 4: could occur in your absence. Stay in touch with your lawyer. 172 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 4: See on the twenty ninth. 173 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: The hearing was over in about four minutes. The second 174 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: it wrapped, Laura and her mother may to swift exit. 175 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: And if I'm being honest, I was still trying to 176 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: process exactly what had just happened. So I caught up 177 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: with Woodnick after the hearing. 178 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 3: Laura has an excellent lawyer. 179 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm quite confident that they're up to something, trying to 180 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: work on a resolution that ends this. 181 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: One of my biggest takeaways from Laura's hearing on May 182 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: twentieth was that her new attorney seems to have this 183 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: under control. He came in with a calm command of 184 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: the case, and it looks like Laura's listening to him. 185 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: Like we said earlier, this is her third attorney in 186 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: this matter. She started with private counsel, but then was 187 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: assigned to public defender. After Laura was offered a plea deal. 188 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: She replaced the public defender with a new private attorney, 189 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: Christian Looterers. No one knows how she's affording him, considering 190 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: that she and her parents have recently declared bankruptcy. We'll 191 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: get to that later, but according to Woodnick. 192 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: Laura has an excellent lawyer. Christian Louters is a good 193 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: lawyer by all accounts. I think he was doing his job, 194 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: and his job is to both prepare for a trial 195 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: and also try to find a resolution that allows Laura 196 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 2: to move on with her life. I'm assuming there's active 197 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 2: discussions to resolve the case. 198 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: Laura's side has been very tight lipped about their legal strategy. 199 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: In May twenty twenty six, I reached out to Laura's 200 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney Christian Looters. I requested a statement on 201 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: the status of her case and whether she plans to 202 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: accept the state's plea deal. I gave him a week 203 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: to respond. I never heard back, but there is one 204 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: person who did get a response from him, investigative journalist 205 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: Kristin Thorn. A few months ago, she was working on 206 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: a piece for US Weekly about Clayton and Laura when 207 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,599 Speaker 1: she reached out to mister Looters. At the time, he 208 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 1: just started on Laura's case, so I called Kristen to 209 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: get the details. 210 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 10: I actually ended up delaying my story by two weeks 211 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 10: because he said I really need more time. I just 212 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 10: came on and I respect that. I want to give 213 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 10: him an opportunity to respond, and from a legal perspective 214 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 10: that's important as well. So he asked how much time 215 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 10: can you give me? And I was willing to wait 216 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 10: two weeks, and so then I gave him a deadline, 217 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 10: and he met the deadline and we were able to 218 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 10: get it in the story. 219 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: Kristin told me she asked mister Luters if Laura planned 220 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: to take the plea deal. Of course he couldn't share 221 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: that information, but Kristen's the only journalist I know of 222 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: who's received any insight into Laura's legal strategy, So I 223 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 1: asked her to walk us through what he said. 224 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 10: So this is what he responded, and it is quite lengthy, 225 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 10: so I'm going to sum it up just a little bit. 226 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 10: The short answer. He says, all options are on the table. 227 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 10: As a criminal defense attorney, my job is to prepare 228 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 10: each case for three possible outcomes dismissal, case resolution by 229 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 10: agreement meaning plea, or trial, And he says, I'm preparing 230 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 10: for all of these simultaneously. He says, we're starting by 231 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 10: reviewing all available evidence and the case record for anything. Now, 232 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 10: this is where it starts to get interesting. He says 233 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 10: they're looking for anything that may allow us to dismiss 234 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 10: one or more of the charges, such as he says, 235 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 10: major gaps in the investigation, insufficient evidence, procedural errors, or 236 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 10: violations of constitutional rights. 237 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: To translate, he's referring to technicalities that can sometimes blow 238 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: up criminal cases, like not reading someone's miranda rights or 239 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: seizing evidence without a search warrant. 240 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 10: He said, complete dismissal is rare, meaning he knows she's 241 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 10: not going to be able to dismiss all these charges. 242 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 10: But you know, they are going to look at as 243 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 10: much as they can, and he says, at the same time, 244 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 10: I'm preparing for trial if the case isn't resolved by 245 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 10: dismissal or agreement and a jury trial is what will happen. 246 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 10: With that in mind, I'm reviewing all of this. 247 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: Her attorney's response is measured. He sounds like he's weighing 248 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: all the options and preparing for any outcome. And then 249 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,679 Speaker 1: he said this, which I think is an interesting peak 250 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: behind the curtain. 251 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 10: A lot of people don't know this, but there is 252 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 10: a lot of cooperation between defense attorneys and prosecutors, and 253 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 10: really that's for judicial efficiency, right. We don't want to 254 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 10: bog down the court system. 255 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: If you remember from our last episode, only two percent 256 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: of cases go to trial in Maricopa County. Trials are expensive, 257 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: and mister Luters is correct in saying that behind the scenes, 258 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: prosecutors work closely with defense attorneys to strike a plea deal. 259 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 10: He says, the prosecutor and I can't negotiate a plea 260 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 10: agreement effectively until we're both in relative and he put 261 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 10: relative in brackets, agreement as to what the trial will 262 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 10: look like and what the likely result will be, so 263 00:13:58,400 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 10: they're both going to have to kind of do their 264 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 10: so and then they're going to come back together. Then 265 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 10: he says this, which is also very I guess juicy 266 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 10: in my mind. We're not yet at the point in 267 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 10: this case where we are ready to seriously consider a 268 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 10: plea agreement, but we're working diligently and that time could 269 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 10: come in the next several weeks. 270 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: Keep in mind it's been a few months since mister 271 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: Luter sent this statement to Kristen. The impression I got 272 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: after being in the room for the May twentieth status 273 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: hearing is that Laura's attorney is now considering a plea deal. 274 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: Whether Laura will take her attorney's advice is another question. 275 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: I asked Greg Woodennick how he would approach this case 276 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: if he were representing Laura. 277 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 2: If I were representing someone like Laura who was facing 278 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: fourteen felony charges with multiple victims, I'd be trying to 279 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: find a way to mitigate the damages. And what that 280 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: means is coming up with data to present to the 281 00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 2: county attorney to the sentencing judge that somehow assures both 282 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: of them that whatever happened leading up to these charges 283 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 2: and whatever resolution is going to be reached short of 284 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: a trial, it's not going to happen again. 285 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: As you can probably guess. My next question was simple, 286 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: how exactly do you track down that kind of data? 287 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: The way I would do it is I would bring 288 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 2: her to a respected forensic psychologist, maybe a doctor who's 289 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: got some expertise in whatever she is saying. Her personal 290 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 2: challenges are to do a neuropsychological assessment. There may be 291 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: some specialized psychometric testing that has done. In light of 292 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: what she wrote in the Medium article that she recently 293 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: found out she's autistic. I don't know if it's true 294 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 2: or not. We'll find out or not. Maybe we won't 295 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 2: find out. I don't know. 296 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: According to Woodnick, the information provided during these evaluations is 297 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: typically self reported. 298 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 2: The elephant in the room is that I think anyone 299 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 2: who's listened to your podcast and knows this saga should 300 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 2: be incredulous of any data that's presented by Laura. She 301 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 2: has a pretty good history of doctoring and augmenting information 302 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: that comes to and is sent to providers and presenting 303 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: it as if it's medical gospel. That said, assuming a 304 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: well informed doctor assessed her and was able to get 305 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 2: to the bottom of some of the cause here. I 306 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: think it's something we should all embrace because at the 307 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: end of the day, a jail consequence is, I think, 308 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: what a lot of people are hoping for. But she's 309 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 2: not going to be in jail forever. She may be 310 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 2: in jail for a very short time, if at all. Really, 311 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: what we should be concerned about is making sure this 312 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 2: doesn't happen again. And if a doctor can be involved 313 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: in a process to make sure that other people aren't 314 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: harmed by Laura again, then I think that's something we 315 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: should all lean into. 316 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: But there's one other issue that might be causing a 317 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: hold up in this scenario. 318 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 2: The problem with that, and now says, is it presupposes 319 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: that someone's willing to acknowledge what they did was wrong. 320 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: And so I don't know how that's going to play 321 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 2: out here because I'm not sure Laura's going to do that, 322 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: which would be her opportunity to explain herself at a trial. 323 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 2: In theory, Laura doesn't have to explain anything to anybody. 324 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: The burden of proof is squarely on the state to 325 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 2: show beyond a reasonable doubt that Laura committed the fourteen 326 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 2: listed felonies and Laura can sit there quietly and never 327 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: explain herself, and that's totally allowable, and that's how the 328 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 2: law works. So we may never get an explanation, or 329 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: she can choose to testify and try to explain her behaviors. 330 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: We wouldn't know until trial what she chose to do. 331 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 1: The number one question I've been getting since the podcast ended, 332 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: and what I'm sure I'll keep getting, is why do 333 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: all of Laura's legal proceedings keep getting delayed? I asked 334 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: what Nick specifically about her criminal case, and his answer 335 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: surprised me. 336 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 2: I think people are frustrated with the delay. I will 337 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,399 Speaker 2: tell you there's nothing here out of the ordinary. In 338 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: this case, there were two indictments that got strung out 339 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 2: a little bit because of the seven additional charges involving 340 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 2: Greg Gillespie, right, That kind of extended things out a 341 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 2: little bit. But there's no significant delays here. 342 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,440 Speaker 1: No significant delays here. This drawn out back and forth 343 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: about additional indictments, extended plea deadlines, and new attorneys being 344 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: brought on. Apparently that's typical of criminal proceedings. 345 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: That said, I think people are worried there's going to 346 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 2: be other delays if there's no plate. For example, on 347 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: the eve of trial, medical issues or personal issues trying 348 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 2: to delay the trial. Those are what I refer to 349 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: in life and practice as tomorrow problems. We won't know 350 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: those problems exist until they exist, and. 351 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: As we wait to find out if this case we'll 352 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: even go to trial, Clayton is becoming frustrated, understandably. 353 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 8: So I honestly don't have trust. I wish I did 354 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 8: in the court system, but I am hesitant to believe 355 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 8: that my best entry will be served and that of 356 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 8: the victims. I mean, I felt like this case should 357 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 8: have been over years ago. And it's not to say 358 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 8: that we're not going a favorable outcome. It's not to 359 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 8: say that America AC County Attorney's Office isn't doing their. 360 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 9: Job, but I'm not willing to trust fully. 361 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: A lot of victims feel this way because remember, this 362 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: criminal case is the State of Arizona versus Laura Owens. 363 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: The state prosecutors don't work for Clayton or any of 364 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: the victims in their cases. For them to settle a 365 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 1: case with the plea agreement is more like a math 366 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: equation and less like a battle for justice. Because he's 367 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: listed as a victim, Clayton gets advanced notice about what 368 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: the prosecutors plan to do with the case. A few 369 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: months ago, he learned the terms of the state's first 370 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: plea offer. As we heard in a previous episode, he 371 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: wasn't happy with it, and unfortunately the specifics of that 372 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: plea offer still are not public. Following the hearing on 373 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: May twentieth, Clayton me to say he planned to write 374 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: a letter to Ed Lier, the lead prosecutor for the 375 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 1: state of Arizona. Clayton wants him to reconsider what's being 376 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: offered in the plea deal. 377 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 8: I've gotten very nervous with the silence as we are 378 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 8: waiting trial, which is approaching, but there's just not really 379 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 8: anything occurring, and talking with the other victims, I realized 380 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 8: that I don't want this to just cool off and 381 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 8: her potentially get a reduction in the police So let 382 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 8: me write this letter. 383 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 9: I really want. 384 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 8: The prosecutor to understand that I'm still watching and I'm 385 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 8: still very involved, and I really can't afford for this 386 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 8: to be anything less than what it already is, and 387 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 8: what was offered to me is not enough, and so 388 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 8: please reconsider because Laura's antics will not stop until she 389 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 8: is separated from her environment. Right, she needs to be 390 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 8: taken out of her environment, which means jail are present. 391 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: Unlike most other victims, Clayton has a platform and a 392 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: dedicated following. He can use that to apply pressure on 393 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: the case. It's a privilege. 394 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 8: I decided to post the letter on my page just 395 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 8: to ensure that everyone knows I wrote the letter, including 396 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 8: the Maricopa County Attorney's Office, that they would see it 397 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 8: and go okay, you know, not that they would do this, 398 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 8: but I had the thought what if they say, oh, 399 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 8: we never saw the email, And I was like, I'm 400 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 8: not willing to have that be the answer. So let's 401 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 8: just post it online everywhere so that everyone sees it. 402 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 9: So that way that that can't be an excuse. 403 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 1: I asked Clayton to read the letter. Here's what he wrote. 404 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 8: Mister Leer and Victims Services, I'd like to start by 405 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 8: thanking Rachel Mitchell and everyone at MCO for their work 406 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 8: on this case. As one of many of Laura Owen's victims, 407 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 8: that has been very validating to have the county take 408 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 8: her crime seriously. That said, I remained significantly concerned about 409 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 8: Laura Owens and the possibility of her not receiving any 410 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 8: jail time. My attorney, Greg wood Nick has told me 411 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 8: that nonviolent offenders like Laura often do not receive prison time. However, 412 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 8: Laura is no ordinary offender, and her actions, though not 413 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 8: physically violent, have been acts of violence. I know she 414 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 8: will not stop unless she faces real accountability. I can 415 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 8: already predict that she is busy having a psychologist who 416 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 8: she will give more false information to further attempt to 417 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 8: minimize her culpability, to mitigate her exposure, and further portray 418 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 8: herself as the quote unquote real victim. Since Laura had 419 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 8: fourteen felony charges brought against her, she has shown no 420 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 8: signs of remorse or accountability. I fear she is incapable 421 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,199 Speaker 8: of ever acknowledging the damage she's caused, and even if 422 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 8: she did take a plea that does not include incarceration, 423 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 8: she will claim she was forced into it. She knows 424 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 8: how to gain the system and will twist everything to 425 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 8: support her fake victim narrative. 426 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 9: She is relentless. 427 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 8: I would appreciate a plea that stops her from being 428 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 8: on the internet like they do as sex offenders, to 429 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 8: stop her from terrorizing us. She is even posting articles 430 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 8: on medium dot com proclaiming her innocence. Most alarming, she's 431 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 8: back on dating apps. As your investigative team found, Laura 432 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 8: falsely claimed she had not been into it with anyone 433 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 8: since March of twenty twenty two, when in reality, she 434 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 8: had sex the same week she claimed to have had in. 435 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:19,639 Speaker 9: Her course with me. 436 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 8: I have never had sex with her or assaulted her 437 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 8: like she alleged. She is dangerous and will continue to 438 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 8: use the Internet to perpetuate her crimes without incarceration and accountability. 439 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 8: There will be more than Mike, Matt, greg and I 440 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 8: and the others who have not publicly stepped forward. There's 441 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 8: a clear pattern of abuse that will not stop unless 442 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 8: Laura is taken out of her environment in place somewhere 443 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 8: where she can no longer hurt her current victims and 444 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 8: find new ones. While Laura is not a quote unquote 445 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 8: violent offender in the traditional sense, I feel strongly that 446 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 8: we should not overlook the extreme mental, emotional, and financial 447 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 8: damage she has caused. After Judge Matta in the Court 448 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 8: of Appeals ordered her to pay fees for what they 449 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 8: found to be meritless and fraudulent, she has paid nothing 450 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 8: and then lied again in bankruptcy court. Please talk to 451 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 8: the DOJ attorney Jennifer about this for me. She publicly 452 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 8: carried out a defamation scheme against me, hurting my reputation 453 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 8: and taking away my ability to speak to youth about 454 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 8: mental health awareness, which is my passion and one of 455 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 8: the few things that makes me feel alive. The false 456 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 8: accusation and sexual assault claim she launched against me ripped 457 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 8: away the ability for me to make an impact on children, 458 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 8: which caused me to find myself in a depression that 459 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 8: persisted for many months. 460 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 9: On end, she went to the. 461 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,639 Speaker 8: Media, using the cover of anonymity to try and destroy me, 462 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 8: emailed job opportunities to allege I was abusive, and tried 463 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 8: to convince tens of thousands of Bachelor fans that I 464 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 8: was a deadbeat father to her fake twins. It has 465 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 8: taken me years to recover from this and will continue 466 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 8: to take years to fully address. 467 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 9: The emotional trauma. 468 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 8: I'm not embarrassed to share that I had suicidal ideation 469 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 8: from this entire experience, and if it were up to Laura, 470 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 8: I truly think she would have me dead. This woman 471 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 8: is incredibly smart, manipulative and a danger to society. She 472 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 8: lacks the ability to feel bad for anyone other than herself, 473 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 8: and if you happen to quote unquote hurt her ego, 474 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 8: she'll spend a lifetime trying to destroy everything you've built, 475 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 8: as seen with Michael Marriccini and her claims against Greg Gillespie. 476 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 8: I am respectfully requesting you reconsider the current plea deal 477 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 8: and ensure Laura faces a penalty where there is a 478 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 8: jail consequence. It is the only way to stop her. 479 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 8: For if you do not, I promise you will see 480 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 8: the day where new victims of Laura Owens arise, and 481 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 8: also potentially the day where you will see one of 482 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 8: the victims finally fall. 483 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: A few days after Clayton sent that heartbelt letter to 484 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: the Prosecutor's office, he received an unexpected phone call. 485 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 8: They told me they got my email, and I realized 486 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 8: that I didn't fully understand the plea deal. 487 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: Clayton's letter caught the attention of the Maricopa County Attorney's office. 488 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: Almost immediately. They called Clayton and asked him for an 489 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: in person meeting. 490 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 8: It was really nice because they sat down with me, 491 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 8: told me they got my email, and they wanted to 492 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 8: make sure that I was comfortable and understanding as well 493 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 8: of what all has been currently offered, because I realized 494 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 8: that I didn't fully understand the plea deal. 495 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: The state prosecutors explained to Clayton the offer on the 496 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: table to Laura. Again, this offer is not public, so 497 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: we can't speculate because we don't know what it is. 498 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: But Clayton has alluded that the plea offer currently does 499 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: not include prison time. Clayton wants Laura to see time 500 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: behind bars. Here's the part he didn't understand. Prison and 501 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: jail are different things. 502 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 2: Prison has vocational programs, counseling programs, social dynamic. Jail, at 503 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 2: least in Arizona, is for shorter term sentences. 504 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: Even if Laura doesn't receive a prison sentence, probation can 505 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: include jail time. Here's Wudnick again to help explain. 506 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 2: In theory, you can have jail as part of probation. 507 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 2: That's different in prison where they send you away and 508 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 2: you likely may even be leaving Miraclepa County and going 509 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 2: to some prison out in the boondocks. 510 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 1: If Laura decides to accept a plea deal, this would 511 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: mean she's pleading guilty to at least some of the charges, 512 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,239 Speaker 1: and from there she would be sentenced based on her 513 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: guilty plea. The next step is then a sentencing hearing. 514 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 2: The sentencing hearing is a formal hearing where the court 515 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: hears from the county attorney representing the state of Arizona 516 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 2: and the victims regarding the impact that the crimes have 517 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 2: had on them. 518 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: Clayton and Greg Gillespie, who are both listed as victims 519 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: in this case, would have the opportunity to speak directly 520 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: to the judge at the sentencing hearing. This is when 521 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: they can ask the judge to consider jail time as 522 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: part of her sentence. 523 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 8: If it's convincing and the judge feels that we are 524 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 8: in the right with what we're stating, then they can 525 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 8: basically impose what we're requesting. 526 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: If she were to plead guilty, Laura would also have 527 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: the opportunity to speak at her own sentencing, and other 528 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: people are welcome to speak on her behalf. 529 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 2: I think Laura is going to be very tempted to 530 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: talk about how she's been victimized by what's happened and 531 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 2: how she's been bullied by social media and listen, I'm 532 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 2: sure there has been some comments made on social media 533 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: that are not very flattering. I would, if Laura listened 534 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 2: to me, remind her about who brought this to the 535 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: media's attention. 536 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: If Laura doesn't receive a prison sentence, she'll likely be 537 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: on probation. As we said, that could still include jail time. 538 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 2: It often has a component of what they call colloquially 539 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: hotel time, So a lot of times you're allowed to 540 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: get out during the day during jail time and go 541 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 2: to work five days a week and come back. 542 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: Under some programs, it's basically like a work release program 543 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: where you spend nights and weekends in jail. During the 544 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: day you can leave to go to work. But there's 545 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: a major caveat here. In Arizona. Qualifying for this kind 546 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: of work release is an automatic On probation, an offender 547 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: has to comply with a specific set of rules. For example, 548 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: you have to prove you're gainfully employed, and you must 549 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: generally clock at least thirty two hours of work a week. 550 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: If an offender doesn't meet these requirements, they can end 551 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: up spending more time behind bars. 552 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: I do think an appropriate consequence has are incarcerating for 553 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 2: a period of time, though. 554 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: Clayton feels the same way. For him, real accountability means incarceration. 555 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: When he met with prosecutors, that's what he told them. 556 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 8: I asked for a readjustment of the plea, which it 557 00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 8: may or may not occur, but I asked for at 558 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 8: least a year minimum of just jail or prison. 559 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: So in the eleventh hour he's been ramping up communication 560 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: with prosecutors. 561 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 9: Nobody knows Laura better than we do as the victims. 562 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 8: While the prosecutor has done a great job and has 563 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 8: put her feet to the flame, it's important for us 564 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 8: to be able to explain that, hey, this isn't enough. 565 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 8: You would think that a felony would deter somebody from 566 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 8: continued bad behavior, but trust us when we tell you, 567 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 8: as the victims of Laura Owens, that it will not 568 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,479 Speaker 8: stop her. 569 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: We have to remember that if Laura is convicted, either 570 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: at trial or through a plea, the law is going 571 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: to view her as a first time non violent offender. 572 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: Would Nick explains why that matters. 573 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 2: Generally speaking, people don't go to prison as first time 574 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 2: convicted nonviolent offenders. That said, I get why everyone is frustrated, 575 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 2: and I think there's a lot of stirring that she 576 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 2: belongs in prison. That said, the appropriate consequence this is 577 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: going to be the consequence that the judge gives, and 578 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: we need to trust in the process. 579 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: For now, we wait. As for what's next, Laura has 580 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: a public hearing on Monday, June twenty ninth. That's where 581 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: we'll likely find out whether she intends to take the plea. 582 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: Clayton will be in the courtroom. 583 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 8: I don't want the judge thinking that, oh, I'm just 584 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 8: too busy and I have other stuff going on. I 585 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 8: want to show up, even if it's a five minute 586 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 8: status conference, and just be like, hey, I'm here because 587 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 8: I've been severely impacted and I want this woman locked away. 588 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 8: This is serious to me. 589 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: We also have to brace for the reality that this 590 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: might drag out even longer. The expiration on the plea 591 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: deal has already been extended, and it could happen again. 592 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:46,320 Speaker 1: Here's Clayton. 593 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 8: I was told that there will not be a further 594 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 8: kicking of the can, so I want to believe that. 595 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 8: So I'm going to just for that right now, give 596 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 8: the Americopa County Attorney's Office the benefit of the doubt 597 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 8: here and say there won't be I don't want to 598 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 8: even play the WEF scenario. 599 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,080 Speaker 9: I mean, I'll just say this. 600 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 8: If it does get kicked down the road, I'll be disappointed, 601 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 8: But I mean, what can I do at this point? 602 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: Would Nick also believes we're getting close to a resolution here. 603 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 2: If they need to extend it, it's for a good reason. 604 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: I don't think it's going to happen. But if they 605 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: have to do that, that's okay. That's how the process works. 606 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 2: I think the case is about to come to a head. 607 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 2: Either we're going to know trial is supposed to start soon, 608 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 2: or she's going to enter a plea. Sitting here today, 609 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,959 Speaker 2: my guess is that she's going to enter in agreement. Certainly, 610 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: if I were her defense counsel, I would be encouraging it, 611 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: but that's just me. 612 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: Clayton, however, sees it differently. 613 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 8: I think we're going to trial, especially after talking to 614 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 8: the prosecutor and realizing that Greg and I have the 615 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 8: ability if she takes the plea to go in front 616 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 8: of the judge and ask for harsher sanctions. 617 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 9: I think that's a very big risk for her. 618 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 8: Not only does she have to admit that she had 619 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 8: committed wrongdoing, but then she runs the risk of us 620 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 8: being able to successfully prove to the judge that we 621 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 8: need harsher sanctions, and that basically could be the end 622 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,680 Speaker 8: of it for her. I think she really believes that 623 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 8: she still hasn't out. 624 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: Monday, June twenty ninth is a big day for Laura Owens. 625 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: We might find out if she's taking the plea in 626 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: her criminal case in Arizona, and there's something else happening 627 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: on that same day, an important filing in Laura's domestic 628 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: violence restraining order with Mike Marriccini. We spent a few 629 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: episodes of the podcast going into his story and the 630 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: DVRO Laura filed against him. The last update you heard 631 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: was that the DVRO had been dismissed by a San 632 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 1: Francisco judge, but it wasn't quite over because Laura is 633 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: planning to appeal that dismissal. They are completely different legal 634 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: battles in different states, but in Laura's mind they could 635 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: be tied together because this is where the two timelines collide. 636 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: Her repellent brief for the DVRO case is due on Monday, 637 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 1: June twenty ninth, the exact same day as her criminal 638 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: status hearing in Arizona. We know she's deeply invested in 639 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: what happens with Mike Marriuccini. After reporting on this case 640 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: for so long, I believe that having a DVRO against 641 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: Mike is her top priority. If she pleads guilty in Arizona, 642 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: that could impact what she files in San Francisco, And 643 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: of course the reddits luths are speculating about what this 644 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: means for Laura. 645 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 7: She can't plead guilty or this whole DVRO process falls apart. 646 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 7: I think she's trying to get the DVRO granted and 647 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 7: then may consider a plea. 648 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 4: I believe she won't take a plea deal solely because 649 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 4: if she admits she lied, it might make people question 650 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 4: her alleged v claims related to Mike. 651 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 7: If she takes the plea deal, everything else she has 652 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 7: on hand may not have any merit. 653 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 5: If she pleads guilty, she'll lose that control over her 654 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 5: case and claims of Mike. I think she's going to 655 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 5: go to trial. 656 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 1: It seems like Laura's criminal case might finally be coming 657 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,959 Speaker 1: to a head. I'll be following the developments closely, both 658 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: in Arizona and California. In the meantime, we have one 659 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: more episode coming out tomorrow. Like I said, there's been 660 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: a lot going on over the past six weeks, and 661 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: I think it's stuff you'll want to hear. 662 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 5: The email that came back to me was signed by 663 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 5: Ron and Jan. 664 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: I received an email that said a privacy complaint had 665 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: been made against my entire YouTube channel. 666 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 5: Ron and Jan filed a last minute petition. 667 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 10: We were all just like jaws to the floor, like, 668 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 10: oh my god. 669 00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 5: Ron made it very clear that they support her and 670 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 5: they believe that she was pregnant. 671 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 2: Trap. 672 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to 673 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,319 Speaker 1: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify, 674 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us 675 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: a review. A five star rating helps others find this show. 676 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to 677 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 1: reach out to the Love Trapped team or have a 678 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: similar story to share, email us at Love Trapped pod 679 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped at gmail dot com. 680 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division 681 00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. This 682 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: show was executive produced by Nancy Glass Andrea Gunning and 683 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: Ben Fetterman. Written, produced and hosted by me Stephanie Young. 684 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: Our story editor is Monique le Boord. Additional production support 685 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: from Todd Gans. Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri. For 686 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts, Ali Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing 687 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: and mastering by Anna McClain, additional editing support by Tanner 688 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: Robbins and Matt Delvecchio. Thank you to our voice actors 689 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: Caitlin Golden, Todd Gans, Kerrie Hartman, and Matt Delvecchio. This 690 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: podcast was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and leb 691 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: Abramoff at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed 692 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: by Oliver Bains Music library provided by Mob Music. A 693 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: specially thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Crincheck, Ali 694 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: Canter and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more 695 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 696 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.