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Speaker 1: Well, I think that we've already done quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: I've stopped the judicial legislation for three months seeking consensus

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Speaker 1: from the other side, unfortunately not getting it. Then brought

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Speaker 1: in a relatively minor part of the reform, pasted it,

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Speaker 1: and then said I'm still going to give it several

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Speaker 1: months to try to get another consensus. What is it?

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Speaker 1: It would probably be about the composition of the committee

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Speaker 1: that elects judges, with the.

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Speaker 2: Selection of the judges, how they're selected.

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Speaker 1: Right, That's basically what's left. And because other things, I

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Speaker 1: think we should not legislate. I don't think we should

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Speaker 1: move from one extreme where we have perhaps the most

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Speaker 1: activist judicial court on the planet, to get into a

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Speaker 1: point where the legislature are connensed can just knock out

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Speaker 1: any decision that the court makes. There has to be

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Speaker 1: a balance. That's what we're trying to restore.

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Speaker 2: Su Premiers. When you look at the change in selection

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Speaker 2: for the judges, how quickly could that come.

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Speaker 1: Well, if we get a compromise, it could come immediately.

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Speaker 1: If we can't get to buy in from the opposition

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Speaker 1: in the Parliament, there's always a buying from the public.

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Speaker 1: What is the thing that the public accepts, and I'm

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Speaker 1: giving it my best shot. I'm spending I wouldn't say

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours a day on it, Let's say about

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Speaker 1: twelve hours a day.

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Speaker 2: And if the public is not behind it, what do

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Speaker 2: you do?

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Speaker 1: I think you should choose something. I think you should

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Speaker 1: choose something that has broad.

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Speaker 2: Acceptance, which looks like one, which looks.

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Speaker 1: Like something that I'd like to negotiate, not not even

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but give me a flavor of is it walking

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Speaker 2: back some of some of the things that have been

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Speaker 2: said by some ministers around you.

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Speaker 1: Oh, ministers can say anything. I don't control words in

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Speaker 1: our parliamentary system. I control deeds and that has to

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Speaker 1: be understood. But since you know the European system, you

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Speaker 1: know that unlike a presidential system, you don't control the

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Speaker 1: You know what is said by members of your cabinet,

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Speaker 1: but you can.

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Speaker 2: Ask them tone it down. Have you asked them to

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Speaker 2: tone it down?

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Speaker 1: One hundred times?

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Speaker 2: Listening?

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Speaker 1: I succeeded fifty times. You always succeed. You don't always succeed.

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Speaker 1: But that's what's important to understand is what is when

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Speaker 1: the dust settles, are we going to have Israel? That

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Speaker 1: is more is stronger democratically or is it weaker democratically.

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Speaker 1: Is it something where you're going to have the balance

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Speaker 1: that you need between the will of the majority and

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Speaker 1: the rights of the minority or individual rights. Has that

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Speaker 1: been strengthened that balance or has it been weakened. I

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Speaker 1: maintained it'll be strengthened.

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Speaker 2: It certainly will not be right PREMI So there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of questions, especially from investors, especially from businesses,

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Speaker 2: because you always need a body that makes sure that

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Speaker 2: anything that the government passes is legal, and there's maybe

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Speaker 2: a perception problem. But this is weakened. So what is

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Speaker 2: the message to business investors and to markets right now?

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's weakened. I think the ultimate actually

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Speaker 1: I think the ultimate regulator of in democracies are not courts,

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Speaker 1: but are the public choice. I think that's a fundamental

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Speaker 1: misconception of how democracies work.

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Speaker 2: We always need someone to overlook that if.

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Speaker 1: You have a lowser government, then they're not re elected.

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Speaker 1: That's the most important thing. The most important regulator is

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Speaker 1: the political markets. But I don't think that we should

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Speaker 1: in any way weaken the courts. There's a difference between

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Speaker 1: between an independent Court and an all powerful court. And

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Speaker 1: I think what we're trying to do is bring back

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Speaker 1: to Israel where it was in its first fifty years,

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Speaker 1: where there was an adequate balance between the courts, the

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Speaker 1: legislature and the executive Prime Minister.

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Speaker 2: There's a perception problem, maybe, if that's what you think,

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Speaker 2: But there's certainly a division in this country with hundreds

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Speaker 2: of thousands of people protesting and market participants worried about

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Speaker 2: what happens next. What's your message to them?

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Speaker 1: When the dust settle, Israel will not only will remain

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Speaker 1: a democracy, it will be even a stronger democracy, but

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Speaker 1: more importantly, it will not in any way impair the

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Speaker 1: enormous business and economic capabilities of Israel in the new

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Speaker 1: technological age.

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Speaker 2: Well, premierster, when does this dust settle? So far? You

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Speaker 2: haven't even been prepared to see that. You will follow

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Speaker 2: what the Supreme Court decides.

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Speaker 1: Now, we follow what the Supreme Court decides on the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court so far has also followed the basic rule

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Speaker 1: of not stracking down basic laws which they themselves deem

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Speaker 1: are the basis of the constitution. Both things have to

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Speaker 1: be maintained.

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Speaker 2: So would you tell markets and investors today that whatever

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Speaker 2: they decide. Right, there's something big that's going to be

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Speaker 2: decided in the next couple of months, you will abide

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Speaker 2: by that.

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Speaker 1: I hope that we don't get into a constitutional crisis.

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Speaker 1: I think we won't. I think there's a way of

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Speaker 1: reaching an equitable compromise, which is what I'm trying to do. Now.

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Speaker 1: If I reveal to you everything that I'm trying to do,

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Speaker 1: I won't be able to do it.

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Speaker 2: But the market wants to understand that there's nothing worse

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Speaker 2: for the markets for investors to actually be in the

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Speaker 2: limbit where you're not sure exactly what will happen or

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Speaker 2: how the government will react.

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Speaker 1: I'm absolutely I'm absolutely sure that Israel will come out

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Speaker 1: stable and successful and democratic, at least as democratic my view,

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Speaker 1: more democratic. I don't think we're going to tear the

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Speaker 1: country apart. I don't think you're going to have civil war.

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Speaker 1: I think right now what you're seeing is the natural

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Speaker 1: conflict between two opposing views that have not yet meshed,

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Speaker 1: but they will mish.

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Speaker 2: Do you support your central bank governor, who is very

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Speaker 2: well respected internationally.

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Speaker 1: Sure, I appointed him.

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Speaker 2: Will you back him for another term? He has to decide.

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Speaker 2: I think by next month well, I.

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Speaker 1: Haven't talked to him yet, but I will, but I've

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Speaker 1: guarded I would say rigorously his independence, the independence of

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Speaker 1: the central bank, and that will continue to be the policy.

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Speaker 1: I will talk to him, but you wouldn't believe this,

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Speaker 1: But he just not had the opportunity to discuss that.

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Speaker 2: But when you talk to him, will you ask him

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Speaker 2: to stay on?

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Speaker 1: Possibly? I want to think.

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Speaker 2: About her now.

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Speaker 1: I think he's been an exceptional central Bank director, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's a possibility that I'll have to talk

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Speaker 1: to about one of.

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Speaker 2: Your ministers I think called them a savage for raising

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Speaker 2: interest rates.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, my ministers in our hectic parliamentary system, could

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Speaker 1: say anything. But it's a fact that we've never intervened

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Speaker 1: with the independence of the central bank, and we won't.

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Speaker 1: In fact, I think I passed some laws or corrective

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Speaker 1: additional laws that safeguarded the independence of the central bank.

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Speaker 1: I do not want the government broaching in on what

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Speaker 1: the central bank has to do.

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Speaker 2: So do you support the interest rate hikes?

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Speaker 1: I'd leave that decision to the central bank. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've had several central bank directors because I've been in

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Speaker 1: government a long time. I think in a few months

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Speaker 1: I'll be probably more time in as Prime Minister than

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Speaker 1: anybody in the Western world for the last half century,

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Speaker 1: so I've had a lot of central bank directors to

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Speaker 1: talk to. I always talk to them in a padded room,

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Speaker 1: absolutely sound proof that we could, you know, hurled at

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Speaker 1: each other whatever we want. But when I come out

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Speaker 1: I always give backing to the Central back director.

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Speaker 2: But Prime Minister, it would be pretty powerful or a

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Speaker 2: pretty powerful message to the markets, given the divisions and

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Speaker 2: given the turmoil, if you were to ask him to stay.

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Speaker 1: On, could be that's a consideration. I'll consider it.

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Speaker 2: But do you agree would that be a powerful message.

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Speaker 1: I think the powerful message is the independence of the

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Speaker 1: Central Bank, and I think the choices that I've made

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Speaker 1: in bringing in central bank directors, whether it was Stanley

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Speaker 1: Fisher and after him the current Central Bank director, I

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Speaker 1: think people see that.

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Speaker 2: We choose and choose well and that will not.

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Speaker 1: And some others in between.

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Speaker 2: I don't want it and that will not change.

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Speaker 1: No, it will.

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Speaker 2: You're overhauling the judiciary, but the central Bank won't be.

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Speaker 1: I'm not overhauling the judiciary. I'm correcting the judiciary to

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Speaker 1: where it was. I don't think we'll get there, but

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Speaker 1: to where it was. It Israel's first fifty years before

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Speaker 1: the judicial imbalance was created, and I'm trying to bring

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Speaker 1: it back modestly into line. This is described as the

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Speaker 1: end of democracy. Why why is it described as the

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Speaker 1: end of democracy? Because we say that the judiciary in Israel,

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Speaker 1: and in Israel alone, cannot say I'm striking down a

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Speaker 1: government decision or a parliamentary law simply because I think

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Speaker 1: it's unreasonable. That doesn't exist to that extent.

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Speaker 2: No, but it's a check in balance, and this is

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Speaker 2: what again, this is what investors are worried about.

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Speaker 1: So many of checks.

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Speaker 2: Kind of So I was going to ask you, what's

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Speaker 2: your message today for a business that wants to come

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Speaker 2: here that's a little bit nervous about what they can

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Speaker 2: do longer term?

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Speaker 1: There is no absence of checks in Israel. The courts

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Speaker 1: have all the checks, but they have no balance. So

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Speaker 1: if you're concerned that the court will not be able

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Speaker 1: to intervene in certain decisions, they've got one hundred different

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Speaker 1: checks on that. But one thing that we want to

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Speaker 1: have is not to be able to to have the

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Speaker 1: court intervene on anything, on any matter, without any reference

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Speaker 1: to any statute or any law that is not democracy primary.

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Speaker 2: It's my understanding they've only done that a handful of times.

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Speaker 2: But if you're an investor today, right, and you look

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Speaker 2: at Israel that has to deal with Saudi, that has

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Speaker 2: to deal with Iran, why are you falling on the

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Speaker 2: sword about the judiciary.

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Speaker 1: I'm not falling on the sword. I'm trying to correct

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Speaker 1: and imbalance because people, because millions of Israelis vote timing

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Speaker 1: again for governments who want to have certain government policies, okay,

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Speaker 1: And the governments are elected and they want to enact

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Speaker 1: their policies, and the Supreme Court often intervenes in ways

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Speaker 1: that nullifies the will of the majority without any reference

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Speaker 1: to a law. For example, I'll give you an example.

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Speaker 1: We have foreign workers. Okay, Israel has been able to

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Speaker 1: prevent the entry of.

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Speaker 2: M and premise we're fully aware. But were you upset

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Speaker 2: by hundreds of thousands of people in the streets.

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Speaker 1: Well, there have been hundreds of thousands of the U others.

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Speaker 1: That's a reflection of democracy. Nobody describes. Nobody describes the

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Speaker 1: other side. We had a quarter of a million people

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Speaker 1: in the street the other day supporting the judicial reform.

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Speaker 1: You didn't hear a word.

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Speaker 2: But per Minister, you were the one that brought people together, right,

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Speaker 2: that build bridges.

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Speaker 1: What's happened well because it didn't happen overnight. When I

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Speaker 1: did the economic refirms that made Israel an economic juggernaut,

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Speaker 1: a free market economy, technological economy, I had huge demonstrations.

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Speaker 1: I had a five months national strike, three months and

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Speaker 1: two months from the labor union I had when I

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Speaker 1: tried to take the gas out of the seabed. I

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Speaker 1: have the same people are organizing the strikes now saying

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Speaker 1: this is the end of democracy. This will destroy our environment.

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Speaker 1: Mind you taking substituting gas for coal, destroying the run.

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Speaker 1: But it's the same thing now. They're saying we're destroying

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Speaker 1: the democracy. That's nonsense, But I understand it's nonsense in

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Speaker 1: my view, it's not nonsense in their view. They're generally concerned,

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Speaker 1: and I think there's a happy middle ground there. I've

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Speaker 1: always found it in other matters, whether it was in

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Speaker 1: defense or Iran, or free market economies or taking gas

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Speaker 1: out of the seabed. I'll find it here as well.

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Speaker 2: Again, there's so much nervousness right out there when you

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Speaker 2: speak to investors when you speak to the markets, give

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Speaker 2: me a sense of what you would be able to

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Speaker 2: do or to give to normalize relationship with Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 1: Well, sorry, Arabia, I think is one of the exceptional

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Speaker 1: things that tells you why I'm very optimistic about Israel

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Speaker 1: really one of two reasons, one of two main reasons.

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Speaker 1: One is that, well, it's start with Saudi Arabia, but

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Speaker 1: then I'll get with the other one. I think that

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Speaker 1: we're about to witness a pivot of history. Maybe I

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Speaker 1: can't guarantee you that it'll happen, but first, there's an

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Speaker 1: economic corridor of energy, transport and communications that naturally goes

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Speaker 1: through our geography from the Arabian Peninsula, from Asia to

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Speaker 1: the Arabian Peninsula to Europe. We're going to realize that,

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Speaker 1: and by the way, my sense is we're going to

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Speaker 1: realize that despite whether we have formal peace or not.

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Speaker 2: But do you have to give concessions? So we understand

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Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, But what would you what would you give?

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Speaker 2: Would you would you limit, for example, Jewish settlements in

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Speaker 2: the West Bank.

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Speaker 1: Again, you have a good pension as a good journalist

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Speaker 1: to try to eke out for me the my negotiation stance,

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Speaker 1: and of course you're not going to succeed, but you

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Speaker 1: could keep on trying. But do I think it's feasible

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Speaker 1: to have that? And what do I think that political

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Speaker 1: questions will block it? I doubt it. If there's political will,

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Speaker 1: there will be a political way to achieve normalization and

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Speaker 1: a formal peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia that has

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Speaker 1: enormous economic consequences for your investors. And if they have

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Speaker 1: to bet on it right now, I bet on it,

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Speaker 1: but I can't guarantee it.

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Speaker 2: And primary this is I'm not trying to inc out negotiations.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to understand what you're willing to give because

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Speaker 2: this is such an important partnership.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I'm not willing to give. I'm

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Speaker 1: not willing to give anything that will endanger is real

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Speaker 1: security that I will not do. But I think there's

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Speaker 1: enough room to discuss possibilities. I don't think I think

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian thing is brought in all the time. It

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Speaker 1: was always brought in, and it's sort of a checkbox.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have to check it to say that

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Speaker 1: you're doing it. Is that what is being said in corridors.

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Speaker 1: Is that what is being said in discrete negotiation. No,

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Speaker 1: you tell me, the answer is a lot less than

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Speaker 1: you think.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So if you look at, for example, giving the

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Speaker 2: Palestinians their own state, is that something that you would

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Speaker 2: is that a red line?

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Speaker 1: It won't be their own state, it will be an

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Speaker 1: Iranian controlled state. That will in an area that is

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Speaker 1: about the width of the Washington Beltway. You take Israel

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Speaker 1: and the Palestinian areas in Judas, Samaria, the West Bank together,

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Speaker 1: it's a little more than the width of the Washington Beltway.

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Speaker 1: You put a Palestinian state which will be controlled by

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Speaker 1: Iran in half of that or in the middle of that,

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Speaker 1: you won't have a Palestinian state. You'll have an Iranian

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Speaker 1: terrs state.

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Speaker 2: And of course, so under no circumstances would you love that.

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Speaker 1: Now, what I said often is that the way that

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Speaker 1: I would have a solution is two things about that.

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Speaker 1: One that the Palestinians should have all the powers to

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Speaker 1: govern themselves and none of the powers to threaten Israel.

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Speaker 1: This means that in whatever final settlement peace settlement we

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Speaker 1: have with the Palestinians, Israel remains the over I would

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Speaker 1: say Israel has the overriding security power in the entire area,

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Speaker 1: ours and theirs. Otherwise we collapse, they collapse.

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Speaker 2: You're going to Unga in New York, I believe second

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Speaker 2: week or third week of September. Will you meet with

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump?

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Speaker 1: I don't know nobody. You're the first. You're the first

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Speaker 1: to who have suggested it. No, I haven't.

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Speaker 2: Are you expecting an invitation to the White House from

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Speaker 2: President Biden?

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Speaker 1: Well, he said that we are going to be, so

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Speaker 1: I'll leave it up to him.

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Speaker 2: What are you most excited for going to Aunga?

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Speaker 1: Well, I've been there many years. You know what am

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Speaker 1: I most excited about the possibility of broadening the already

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Speaker 1: historic Abraham Accords. I think this will be this will

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Speaker 1: change history. I think it will not only end the

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Speaker 1: Arab Israeli conflict, not the Palestinian is really conflict, but

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Speaker 1: our conflict with ninety eight percent of the Arab world.

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Speaker 1: It will also, I think, create a new piece between

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Speaker 1: the Jewish state and the Muslim world.

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Speaker 2: But Prime Minister, the countries of the Abraham Accurts, some

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Speaker 2: of them have been frustrated, right about some of the

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Speaker 2: noise that's been coming out of your government. Will you

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Speaker 2: will you meet with them to try and reassure them.

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Speaker 1: Well, we meet with them all the time, and we

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Speaker 1: reassure them all the time. But I think, I think

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Speaker 1: some of them are habituated to the fact that noise

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Speaker 1: is noise, and I think that's true of the market's too.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of noise in the market. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at the fundamentals of visual if you look

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Speaker 1: at the growth rate which is double the United States expected.

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Speaker 1: Now you look at the deficit which is one point

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Speaker 1: five at most percent compared to five point five percent

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Speaker 1: in the US. If you look at the debt to

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Speaker 1: GDP which is sixty percent, which is less than one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent in the US, and you know what it's

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Speaker 1: like in the EU. And if you look at if

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Speaker 1: you look at the investments, I mean in Nvidio builds here,

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Speaker 1: the supercomputer. Intel just puts twenty five billion dollars for

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Speaker 1: a chip plastic. But that's but that's my point that

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Speaker 1: there's noise in the short term markets, there's clarity in

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Speaker 1: the long term markets. I mean, now Amazon just invests

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Speaker 1: seven billion in cloud services here. Why are they doing that?

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Speaker 1: Because they know something I'm going to do and the

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Speaker 1: thing that I'm going to do, and I like to

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Speaker 1: bring it to your investors at ten a few years ago.

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Speaker 1: Ten years ago, I decided that Israel would be one

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Speaker 1: of the ten cyber powers in the world, one of

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Speaker 1: the five. We've become one of the more than five

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Speaker 1: higher than that. Now. I think that what we're going

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Speaker 1: to do is and what I'm organizing is government, a

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Speaker 1: government policy, and a government board with money to make

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Speaker 1: Israel one of the three top AI powers in the world.

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Speaker 2: What do you say to investors that worry that you've

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Speaker 2: changed in terms of priorities?

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Speaker 1: Haven't My priorities are peace, prosperity, and security. I think

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Speaker 1: that they're all dependent on prosperity to have the ability

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Speaker 1: to fund the defense needs that we have and to

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Speaker 1: expand the peace. The prosperity is based on Israel's supreme

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Speaker 1: technological prowess. We are, you know people rated a seventh

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Speaker 1: on the AI on the AI list, you know why

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Speaker 1: because of the absence of government policy. I'm changing that

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to announce in about six weeks the

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Speaker 1: government policy, the organization, the project leader for a host

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Speaker 1: of civilian and military AI that will thrust Israel right

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Speaker 1: up there. If you're an investor and you're not seeing

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Speaker 1: that the added value that is going to accrue to

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Speaker 1: national economies is based on their ability to generate AI

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Speaker 1: and users. I this is not hype. This is Israel,

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Speaker 1: and we have done.

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Speaker 2: Worried about the shorter term. But thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for your.

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Speaker 1: Time, oh boss. But remember this, here's a good one.

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Speaker 1: This is recorded today right now. We shall look at

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Speaker 1: one year from now. That's pretty short term, and we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Was I right in telling you that Israel right now

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Speaker 1: is undervalued? You should invest in Israel. Smart money is

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Speaker 1: coming into Israel now, like these big firms, because they

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Speaker 1: understand that we're going to a good place.