Speaker 1: When Lindsay Tornambi was young, she lived in a remote community.
Speaker 1: It was far north in the woods of Minnesota, clusters
Speaker 1: of cabins and trailers, hidden among pine trees and lakes,
Speaker 1: with no real connection to the outside world. About one
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty people lived there together. They had all
Speaker 1: moved there for a very specific reason to follow. One
Speaker 1: Sunday morning, they were all getting ready for the day.
Speaker 1: Lindsay was twelve at the time, a girl with dark
Speaker 1: wavy hair, brown eyes like deep pools.
Speaker 2: I think I was just at home in the trailer
Speaker 2: where we lived.
Speaker 1: She lived with her family in a double wide trailer home,
Speaker 1: and that morning Lindsay did what she always did. She
Speaker 1: was eating breakfast, helping her sister pick out an outfit.
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, I remember like my mom yelling,
Speaker 2: the eagles are gathering. The eagles are going, And I.
Speaker 1: Was like, what, the eagles are gathering.
Speaker 2: There was this huge bell that you would ring that
Speaker 2: you could hear from different places. You started hearing people screaming,
Speaker 2: the eagles are gathering, the eagles are gathering. The bells
Speaker 2: started ringing, the phone started ringing. Everyone was just like
Speaker 2: went crazy.
Speaker 1: Because the eagles are gathering was a code, and the
Speaker 1: code meant Jesus is here.
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ was something back like this was it. He
Speaker 2: was coming. We were going to heaven.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's so it was like euphoria.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember my mom being like so excited, like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, we got to get to the Shepherd's Camp.
Speaker 2: We can't miss it. Get yourself in the van as
Speaker 2: fast as you can. Everyone literally dropped what they were doing.
Speaker 2: I mean everyone was just panicking. Like you could see
Speaker 2: all the cars just flying, the dust clouds, the dirt
Speaker 2: just like flying up.
Speaker 1: They had a designated meeting spot, a central location where
Speaker 1: they all worshiped, a place called the Shepherd's Camp. Here
Speaker 1: they would greet Jesus and descend with him to Heaven.
Speaker 2: People showed up to the Shepherd's Camp with shampoos still
Speaker 2: in their hair. Somebody said that they had left the
Speaker 2: iron on, somebody had left the oven on. People were
Speaker 2: half dressed, missing a shoe or something. People were just
Speaker 2: like piling in and everyone gathered in front of the
Speaker 2: dining hall, which we called taberna. It was the end times,
Speaker 2: This was it. Jesus Christ is coming back.
Speaker 1: A man came out to meet them at the dining hall.
Speaker 1: He had brown hair and a short beard. He was
Speaker 1: thin but strong looking. Everyone watched him, waiting to hear
Speaker 1: what he would say. His name was Victor Bernard. Lindsay's
Speaker 1: family was part of a group called River Road Fellowship,
Speaker 1: a religious organization named for a road in Minnesota. A
Speaker 1: group founded and created by this man, Victor, who would
Speaker 1: change all of his followers' lives.
Speaker 2: It's hard to describe Victor. I don't think I knew
Speaker 2: why I loved him. I just knew that everyone did.
Speaker 2: You saw all of this respect and honor and love
Speaker 2: for him, and I was like, Okay, this is who
Speaker 2: God had sent to us, and this is our chef
Speaker 2: and the one who takes care of us. Sometimes it
Speaker 2: still confuses me as to why one how quickly they
Speaker 2: just either were brainwashed or I don't even know how
Speaker 2: to explain why they did what they did or what
Speaker 2: they were thinking. It's a mixture of sadness, of anger,
Speaker 2: of sometimes wishing it never happened. I mean, you can't
Speaker 2: go back and change anything.
Speaker 1: Here in this community. Sometimes things that seem perfect are
Speaker 1: anything but air that smells like pine trees, that sway
Speaker 1: in the wind loons calling over the water, a lake
Speaker 1: so still it looks like glass. Everyone smiles. They plaster
Speaker 1: it on their faces until it feels natural. They express
Speaker 1: gratitude in every conversation. God loves us. Give thanks to God.
Speaker 1: We'll have our own paradises, our own planets, even better
Speaker 1: than we could imagine here on earth. The community tries
Speaker 1: to hide from the dangers of the outside world, the
Speaker 1: temptations lurking beyond the walls of their utopia. But the
Speaker 1: smiling faces and the sparkling lake hide something dark and crushing.
Speaker 2: For Cocoa Punch.
Speaker 1: And iHeart podcasts, this is the Turning River Road I
Speaker 1: America Lance and I.
Speaker 4: Meln Lance Lesser Part one they can.
Speaker 1: If you've listened to The Turning you probably know that.
Speaker 1: My sister Alan and I make this show together. And
Speaker 1: a few years ago, Allen told me about a story
Speaker 1: I had never heard before, a story she couldn't stop
Speaker 1: talking about. Lindsay's story.
Speaker 4: I couldn't stop talking about it because I was surprised
Speaker 4: it all happened so close to where we'd grown up.
Speaker 4: While we were growing up. We live in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
Speaker 4: and Lindsay was in Pine County just two hours north
Speaker 4: of us. Our family had driven through the area many times,
Speaker 4: we didn't know that a man named Victor Bernard lived
Speaker 4: off a dirt road somewhere in Pine County, a man
Speaker 4: who called himself an apostle and convinced dozens of families
Speaker 4: to join him. It felt strange that for years we'd
Speaker 4: been investigating groups with leaders who wielded absolute power, who
Speaker 4: could enlighten and inspire, but who could also admonish and harm,
Speaker 4: And here was an example in our own backyard. When
Speaker 4: I found out about Lindsay, I googled her. She's a
Speaker 4: woman in her thirties, now around my age. Her LinkedIn
Speaker 4: profile pictures showed her in a graduation cap and gown
Speaker 4: in front of Philadelphia City Hall. I did a double take.
Speaker 4: I've taken pictures in that exact spot with friends. I've
Speaker 4: walked down that street countless times because I lived in
Speaker 4: Philadelphia in my twenties around the same time Lindsay took
Speaker 4: that picture. Lindsay's face was smiley and friendly, looking so unpretentious,
Speaker 4: just sweet, like someone i'd want to be friends with.
Speaker 4: I felt weirdly drawn to her, even though our lives
Speaker 4: from the outside looked like they moved in almost parallel lines.
Speaker 4: They were so different. So I wrote to Lindsay and
Speaker 4: we started talking.
Speaker 1: Lindsay said, while Allen and I were attending middle school,
Speaker 1: she'd been selected to join an inner sanctum of her community,
Speaker 1: an elite group inside River Road Fellowship that required her
Speaker 1: to give even more of herself away. How did this
Speaker 1: attempt at utopia turn into something twisted? How was it
Speaker 1: that even the people who saw what happened would deny
Speaker 1: what was in front of their eyes? And though Lindsay
Speaker 1: was small, one of the youngest of the group, she
Speaker 1: would be the one to reveal the secret that was
Speaker 1: hidden inside.
Speaker 4: Before she was in River Road, before Minnesota, Lindsay lived
Speaker 4: in Pennsylvania with her parents and three siblings, growing up
Speaker 4: in the nineties. She was a product of the time.
Speaker 4: She loved her beanie babies, the Backstreet boys, and musicals.
Speaker 2: Like Annie, I loved to entertain people and saying and
Speaker 2: do all the voices.
Speaker 4: Her dad had a soft pretzel business, and her mom
Speaker 4: stayed at home.
Speaker 2: She was a talker. My mom loved to talk, could
Speaker 2: talk to anyone with her hair and so animated.
Speaker 4: She wore hot pink lipstick and went through what Lindsay
Speaker 4: calls her mom's sequin phase. Lindsay was really into gymnastics.
Speaker 2: I loved the power of it. Was almost like daring.
Speaker 4: Her dad made a homemade balance beam so she could practice,
Speaker 4: and her parents took her to see the US women's
Speaker 4: gymnastics team on tour after they won gold at the
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety six Olympics. Lindsay could picture herself on those
Speaker 4: mats and beams, like a fantasy future playing out in
Speaker 4: front of her, so distant but suddenly so close. But
Speaker 4: she'd never get to pursue this dream because this was
Speaker 4: the year nineteen ninety six. When her parents opened their
Speaker 4: door to a stranger. In November of that year, Lindsay
Speaker 4: was nine years old. Her parents said they were having
Speaker 4: some dinner guests, some friends of a friend. The guests
Speaker 4: had traveled all the way from Minnesota to Pennsylvania to
Speaker 4: meet Lindsay's family for the first time. One of these
Speaker 4: guests was Victor Bernard.
Speaker 2: That's the first time that they met him.
Speaker 4: And what did he look like at that time?
Speaker 2: Dark hair, some sort of facial hair, more on the
Speaker 2: like fit side.
Speaker 1: Victor was there with a woman we'll call her jan
Speaker 1: though that's not her real name. Jan worked with him
Speaker 1: kind of like a second in command. Lindsay said she
Speaker 1: had a hard looking face with long pin straight brown
Speaker 1: hair and bangs.
Speaker 2: They smoked. I remember that they smoked cigarettes, And I
Speaker 2: remember Victor being like, you know, when you're little and
Speaker 2: you can just tell an adult who carries like a
Speaker 2: lot of authority, and you kind of just you could
Speaker 2: tell that from him.
Speaker 4: What about him do you think indicated to you at
Speaker 4: the time that he was someone of authority.
Speaker 2: I think his intensity. He was very intense, and I
Speaker 2: think just the way he carried himself almost with purpose,
Speaker 2: like a confidence. Yeah. He just didn't seem like a warm,
Speaker 2: fun kind of guy. Just very intense. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: that's the word.
Speaker 1: Victor was there to talk to Lindsay's parents about a
Speaker 1: group he had started. He said he and his wife
Speaker 1: and children and a bunch of other families all lived
Speaker 1: together on a plot of land in Minnesota. They farmed
Speaker 1: and worshiped God, and Victor wanted Lindsay's family to try
Speaker 1: it out too.
Speaker 2: I was kind of really indifferent at that time, had
Speaker 2: no clue what was going on, so oblivious to any
Speaker 2: like adult conversations that were happening. But me and my
Speaker 2: sisters we love to dance, so I remember we put
Speaker 2: on like a show for them. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you guys did that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we did that all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we made up this huge dance. The house
Speaker 2: we were living at the time had a huge family room.
Speaker 2: I remember like running from one end to the other
Speaker 2: and lifting up one of my siblings in the air
Speaker 2: and we'd do our jumps in our leaps and pretty
Speaker 2: sure they clapped.
Speaker 1: Jan seemed nice. She told Lindsay about the place they lived.
Speaker 1: They took care of all kinds of animals.
Speaker 2: She was telling us about all the kids who lived there,
Speaker 2: and she said they had a pond and a lake
Speaker 2: that they could go swimming in in the summer. I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, that sounds fun.
Speaker 1: Big decisions about Lindsay's future were being made that night.
Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to her, Lindsay's mom pulled her aside. Afterward, Victor
Speaker 1: had some thoughts on Lindsay's life.
Speaker 2: Somehow he convinced my mother to take me out of gymnastics.
Speaker 2: I remember my mom sat down with me like shortly
Speaker 2: after they left and said, when Jesus Christ comes back,
Speaker 2: he's not gonna say, oh, Lindsay, I'm so proud of you,
Speaker 2: because she got so many gold medals and gymnastics. She
Speaker 2: just talked about, you know what Jesus Christ would care
Speaker 2: about when we get to heaven, and it definitely wouldn't
Speaker 2: be getting gold medal at the Olympics. He's gonna judge
Speaker 2: us by our character here on earth and what we
Speaker 2: did for him. And I remember crying and being so
Speaker 2: upset and like telling her that, but my dream was
Speaker 2: to become an Olympian. And I don't remember it being
Speaker 2: like a super long conversation. She probably didn't really think
Speaker 2: about how it would affect me. I guess there was
Speaker 2: really no arguing, So yeah, they pulled me out of gymnastics.
Speaker 1: For as long as Lindsay can remember, it seemed her
Speaker 1: parents were always searching.
Speaker 2: They always were the type of people who needed to
Speaker 2: follow someone.
Speaker 1: Long before they joined River Road Fellowship, their social circle
Speaker 1: was defined by a different group of families who had
Speaker 1: all met through a kind of church. They were part
Speaker 1: of a Christian organization called The Way International or The Way.
Speaker 1: The Way was founded by an evangelical pastor who started
Speaker 1: preaching his less orthodox ideas about the Bible on radio
Speaker 1: programs In the nineteen forties, he recruited members around the
Speaker 1: world and introduced new followers to his belief system through
Speaker 1: a course called Power for Abundant Living. The vibe I
Speaker 1: get is self improvement mixed with religion, but The Way
Speaker 1: was all also known for its cult like tendencies. Some
Speaker 1: former members used words like love bombing and brainwashing to
Speaker 1: describe it. They tell stories of constant supervision and sleep deprivation,
Speaker 1: of being singled out or embarrassed into submission if they
Speaker 1: tried to resist the leader's directions, or even shut out
Speaker 1: completely so no one was allowed to talk or interact
Speaker 1: with them. Some said they got firearm training and were
Speaker 1: warned they might need to use it. Victor Bernard was
Speaker 1: a member of the Way too, but Lindsay's parents didn't
Speaker 1: know him yet. In the meantime, they hosted fellowships for
Speaker 1: the Way in their home. These informal religious services slash
Speaker 1: prayer groups. They would talk about their unusual interpretations of
Speaker 1: the Bible, and sometimes they spoke in tongues. It was
Speaker 1: all interwoven until Lindsay's childhood.
Speaker 2: And I remember my mom telling me stories that I
Speaker 2: was speaking in tongues almost before I could talk, which
Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, you'd think that that would just
Speaker 2: be babbel.
Speaker 1: Then yeah, you're like, is that just baby babel?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And she would say we'd go to the
Speaker 2: park all the time and she'd push me on the
Speaker 2: swings and I'd be playing and we'd be like singing,
Speaker 2: you know, this little light of mine, like all those
Speaker 2: songs and speaking in tongues and yeah, So I had
Speaker 2: grown up with this.
Speaker 1: When she got a little older, Lindsey was expected to
Speaker 1: participate in fellowships, which made her nervous. Speaking in tongues
Speaker 1: scared her the most. She'd have to speak in tongues
Speaker 1: and then provide a translation for the group.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can remember from the time I was
Speaker 2: probably ten years old, pre planning what I would say.
Speaker 4: Did you think that other people did that?
Speaker 1: Or did you just think that everyone else seemed to
Speaker 1: actually be channeling God?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: I thought everyone else was channeling the Lord. I was like,
Speaker 2: what is wrongs me? You know, like it just it
Speaker 2: seemed so hard. I mean maybe maybe in the back
Speaker 2: my mind, I thought, you know, maybe some of the
Speaker 2: other kids had trouble, but for some people it seemed
Speaker 2: to come so naturally, you know, and they were just
Speaker 2: so especially some of the adults. It was so beautiful
Speaker 2: what they were saying and the words they would be
Speaker 2: so encouraging and uplifting, and I was like, this can't
Speaker 2: be made up, you know, like they have to know
Speaker 2: what they're doing. But little on me here is stuck
Speaker 2: with this tongue and having to write the words ahead
Speaker 2: of time. Yeah, it does unstressful. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 2: my hands are starting to sweat just remembering it.
Speaker 1: After the founder of the Way died in the mid eighties,
Speaker 1: a lot of people started leaving the group. The collapse
Speaker 1: left her parents searching once again, which led them to Amway,
Speaker 1: the infamous multi level marketing company that sells health and
Speaker 1: beauty products, among other things. It felt an awful lot
Speaker 1: like a pyramid scheme, and they were like.
Speaker 2: Super gung ho about that, and like almost making vision
Speaker 2: boards of the house we wanted in the cars that
Speaker 2: we wanted, and they had all these different levels like ruby, diamond, emerald,
Speaker 2: and like my mom would write like go diamond with
Speaker 2: her colored eyeliner on her mirror in the bathroom. Maybe
Speaker 2: they just never would have been those parents that would
Speaker 2: have protected their children as much or something, you know,
Speaker 2: like they just they almost needed somebody to look up to.
Speaker 4: Emily didn't last, though, and a few months after their
Speaker 4: dinner with a Victor, Lindsay's family decided to visit River
Speaker 4: Road Fellowship for the first time. The first trip to
Speaker 4: Minnesota was just for a visit. The drive was long,
Speaker 4: especially for a ten year old like Lindsay. She watched
Speaker 4: out the window the landscape changed from nondescript highway to lush,
Speaker 4: green pines. Lindsay imagines Laura Ingles Wilder from her beloved
Speaker 4: Little House on the Prairie books. Traveling through this exact
Speaker 4: landscape and a covered wagon in the eighteen hundreds, it
Speaker 4: felt like an adventure. It took them twenty hours to
Speaker 4: reach the town of Finlanson, Minnesota.
Speaker 2: Have y'all ever been to Finlisten? Okay? So it's a
Speaker 2: town I think of three hundred and fifteen people. It
Speaker 2: is very tiny. We drove through like the town like downtown,
Speaker 2: and my dad was like you could blink and you'd
Speaker 2: be through it. There was a pea trees, gas station
Speaker 2: and bait tackle shop joined together, and then a post
Speaker 2: office and that was pretty much it I remember us
Speaker 2: joking that you could see, you know, in movie you
Speaker 2: see the tumble weeds blowing through the streets. I swore
Speaker 2: I saw one, but I probably just made it up
Speaker 2: in my head because it was like nothing I'd ever
Speaker 2: seen before. We drove through. There was a egg ranch
Speaker 2: and it smelled terrible, like huge buildings filled with chickens
Speaker 2: and the smell. I was like, what is this? That
Speaker 2: just smelled like crap, really really bad. And we just
Speaker 2: keep driving.
Speaker 4: The longer they drove, the more excited Lindsay got. She
Speaker 4: was building up this utopia in her head. Finally they
Speaker 4: turned off the main road.
Speaker 2: It's this bump and then it's the gravel. There's the
Speaker 2: dust everywhere, and you hear all the rocks flying and
Speaker 2: hitting the car. And at that point we knew that
Speaker 2: we were close because they told us like, when she
Speaker 2: hit the gravel road, you're close. So I remember like
Speaker 2: sitting up and looking out and it's just trees everyone,
Speaker 2: and you know, like old fences.
Speaker 4: Then in the distance among the trees, between two big
Speaker 4: wooden pillars, they saw the sign the Shepherd's Camp.
Speaker 2: And we turn in. It was beautiful, I mean, the
Speaker 2: camp was gorgeous. It was tall trees everywhere in green
Speaker 2: grass and a pond that led out into a lake,
Speaker 2: and it just smelled like pine trees. I don't think
Speaker 2: I'd ever smelled so much pine in my life, like
Speaker 2: very crisp and clean. We could see the dining hall
Speaker 2: and like people started pouring out. All these kids were
Speaker 2: running out of the dining hall, and I just remember
Speaker 2: being really excited. I don't think I was shy to
Speaker 2: meet the kids at all. I was like, I've heard
Speaker 2: so much about you, and the kids were so n
Speaker 2: wanted to like hang out and show us around and
Speaker 2: play and wanted to know all about our lives. They
Speaker 2: lived very different than us, so many people on one property,
Speaker 2: you know. I was like it just it seemed fun, though,
Speaker 2: Like if you had all these kids to play with
Speaker 2: every single day, I mean, you have never ending play dates.
Speaker 4: It's the dream.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. I remember doing like cartwheels and back handsprings
Speaker 2: for them, and they thought that was so cool that
Speaker 2: I could do that stuff.
Speaker 4: Lindsay's family stayed for a week. Lindsay had never spent
Speaker 4: so much time outside.
Speaker 2: I remember getting like very sappy, and my hands had
Speaker 2: never had like tree sap on them. Before you know.
Speaker 2: I remember there were fields where the grass was so
Speaker 2: high and you would go on your hands and knees
Speaker 2: to make tunnels through the grass. You couldn't see the
Speaker 2: tunnels if you were standing outside, but if you found
Speaker 2: the entrance, the grass would be flattened where you made
Speaker 2: your little tunnel. So yeah, we played like all through
Speaker 2: the woods made forts. The further you went down the road,
Speaker 2: like deeper into the camp, the more woods there were.
Speaker 4: When they weren't playing in the woods, the kids helped
Speaker 4: take care of the farm animals. In this utopia, everyone
Speaker 4: had a role in their survival, working the land and
Speaker 4: raising their own livestock. Let them be mostly self sufficient.
Speaker 4: They let them stay close to their profit, away from
Speaker 4: the world.
Speaker 2: They had sheep and cows and pigs and rabbits chickens.
Speaker 2: But it was all fun like I just joined in
Speaker 2: like I had known them my entire life.
Speaker 4: At meal time Victor took the stage, he told them
Speaker 4: Christ will return. Lindsay took her cues from the adults
Speaker 4: in the room. When he spoke, everyone listened.
Speaker 2: So I remember meals being so long, hours long at times,
Speaker 2: and we'd have to sit there, and I remember my
Speaker 2: mom was like infatuated with Victor and loved everything about
Speaker 2: the camp and furiously taking notes. Anytime he spoke, he
Speaker 2: could be like so charismatic and just suck you in,
Speaker 2: like the way he moved his words his voice, and
Speaker 2: then the urgency too. I mean, every time he preached
Speaker 2: it was always you know, the Lord is coming back,
Speaker 2: The Lord is coming back.
Speaker 4: Lindsay's mom believed Victor when he said Jesus was going
Speaker 4: to return, and when Jesus returned, he would find them
Speaker 4: there in Minnesota at the Shepherd's Camp. Lindsay had an
Speaker 4: image in her head of all of Victor's followers being
Speaker 4: sucked into the sky.
Speaker 2: Like the rapture kind of And that's how I always
Speaker 2: envisioned it is, okay, we're all here, and then whoop
Speaker 2: everyone up in the air.
Speaker 4: Even when he wasn't preaching everyone and wanted to be
Speaker 4: around Victor, he might look you in the eye and
Speaker 4: compliment you in a way that made you feel amazing.
Speaker 2: It was almost like if your favorite singer or actor,
Speaker 2: if they acknowledged you paid you a compliment. I mean,
Speaker 2: you would be on like a high. I know mine
Speaker 2: would be Kevin Gossner, But I think because he had
Speaker 2: been portrayed as this man of God and so important
Speaker 2: and put up on that pedestal. If he spoke to me,
Speaker 2: it was like a really big deal. There was that
Speaker 2: feeling of you know when you hold your breath and
Speaker 2: you have butterflies and you know something exciting is going
Speaker 2: to happen, and you kind of feel light on your feet.
Speaker 2: That's how you would feel. Sometimes. There were also times
Speaker 2: and I would get so shy around him. There were
Speaker 2: times where he could be so charming and he would
Speaker 2: make you feel like the most important person in the
Speaker 2: entire world. And there were other times where he was
Speaker 2: so scary and demanding, and then if somebody maybe challenged
Speaker 2: him or went against him, there was a lot of
Speaker 2: public humiliation and you were so afraid of him. There
Speaker 2: were times when Victor would get so mad at somebody
Speaker 2: in the church and like he'd throw a chair. I
Speaker 2: remember him spitting in people's faces, getting mad at kids
Speaker 2: for not listening. I remember thinking, oh, my gosh, like
Speaker 2: he is. It made you never want to do anything
Speaker 2: to make him upset, like you'd just be on your
Speaker 2: best best behavior.
Speaker 4: After the week was over, Lindsay's family drove home to Pennsylvania,
Speaker 4: but Victor was still in there lives. They read his books,
Speaker 4: he gave them advice, and they drove out to Minnesota
Speaker 4: for more visits to the camp. It was during one
Speaker 4: of those visits in nineteen ninety eight, that Victor made
Speaker 4: a big announcement and an evening meeting that only the
Speaker 4: adults attended. On this special night, Victor took off his
Speaker 4: wedding ring in front of everyone. He told the congregation
Speaker 4: he was forsaking his earthly wife. He would move out
Speaker 4: of the house where his wife and their four sons lived.
Speaker 4: From now on, he would be married to the church.
Speaker 2: I remember my mom told me either that night or
Speaker 2: the next day. She was so excited like fill me
Speaker 2: in on what had happened at the meeting.
Speaker 4: Around this time, Victor met with Lindsay's parents and gave
Speaker 4: them an ultimatum.
Speaker 2: You're either moving to Minnesota and you're joining our church,
Speaker 2: or you have to cut ties. By the end of
Speaker 2: that meeting, my parents had decided to join Victor and
Speaker 2: make the move.
Speaker 4: Lindsay's mom was excited to make the change. She wanted
Speaker 4: to be near Victor.
Speaker 2: I honestly think if my mom wasn't in the picture,
Speaker 2: my dad wouldn't have gone.
Speaker 4: And her parents worried if they weren't in Minnesota, Jesus
Speaker 4: might not be able to find them when he returned.
Speaker 2: I think it happened pretty quickly that they sold the house.
Speaker 2: We packed up our belongings, and we made the drive
Speaker 2: out there to the Shepherd's Camp. I thought it would
Speaker 2: be just like how it was when we visited, getting
Speaker 2: to do animal care, playing soccer, ice skating in the winter, snowmobiling.
Speaker 2: I never thought it would develop into what it was.
Speaker 2: Right before we arrived in Minnesota, on our way to
Speaker 2: move there, my mom was joking, maybe kind of being serious,
Speaker 2: but that she should put on her wedding dress so
Speaker 2: that she would be in her wedding dress when we
Speaker 2: arrived at the camp, basically saying she was giving her life,
Speaker 2: you know, which if you think of it as so sick,
Speaker 2: like my dad was right, you know, like I just
Speaker 2: I don't understand what was going with their heads, and
Speaker 2: I don't know that I'll ever be able to understand
Speaker 2: what they were thinking.
Speaker 4: Do you think it was almost like she felt as
Speaker 4: though she was marrying the camp, the community, almost kind
Speaker 4: of victor. Yeah, I think so, Lindsay's mom was ready
Speaker 4: to give up everything, and that's what Victor wanted. Does
Speaker 4: anything stand out to you as your first big memory
Speaker 4: from early on when you first started living there.
Speaker 2: I do remember one time my sister got in a
Speaker 2: lot of trouble. She's the youngest girl, she would have
Speaker 2: been five. I don't even know what she did, but
Speaker 2: somebody like picked her up and shook her so hard
Speaker 2: that she peed herself. And I'm feeling so sad and
Speaker 2: upset for her. I don't even think I knew what
Speaker 2: to do. Our parents had punished us a lot growing up,
Speaker 2: but nothing to that extent to where you would pee yourself.
Speaker 4: And what was the adult attitude towards it. Did anyone
Speaker 4: seem surprised that that harsh of a punishment, No was happening.
Speaker 2: No, nobody seemed surprised at all.
Speaker 4: What was strange in the outside world was normal here,
Speaker 4: and Linda would have to get used to this new life,
Speaker 4: this world with its own rules. Victor said. The members
Speaker 4: of River Road had to leave behind their earthly things,
Speaker 4: anything that would pull them away from Jesus. So one day,
Speaker 4: the families gathered in the middle of a gated field
Speaker 4: near one of the barns. They lit a massive bonfire
Speaker 4: that took up a large part of the yard. People
Speaker 4: started to their belongings to the field. One by one,
Speaker 4: they threw them onto the fire. The physical reminders of
Speaker 4: their past began to burn.
Speaker 2: I do remember that feeling like what like there were
Speaker 2: couches in there, somebody drove their motorcycle. They got rid
Speaker 2: of it. Jewelry, pictures, videos, clothes. I remember we had
Speaker 2: these like Christian like kids songs on tape, and we
Speaker 2: got rid of those. I didn't really understand it. I
Speaker 2: was like, why do we have to get rid of
Speaker 2: all this stuff? It was piled high at that point,
Speaker 2: I mean, being twelve and tiny, I thought it looked
Speaker 2: as big as a house. It was hot, so hot.
Speaker 4: Lindsay didn't own much back then, but she knew she
Speaker 4: was expected to sacrifice something. She went and got the
Speaker 4: teddy bear she'd had since before she could remember.
Speaker 2: I think he's the only thing that reminds me of
Speaker 2: my earthly life, so I'll throw him in there.
Speaker 4: She tossed her bear on the fire and watched it burn.
Speaker 4: She felt a deep sadness inside her, but also guilt
Speaker 4: and the sense that that sadness was a bad influence,
Speaker 4: that she should stop that feeling because that sadness might
Speaker 4: hold her back from living for Jesus' return. It was
Speaker 4: one of the first times she would learn to question
Speaker 4: her emotions, one of the first times she would have
Speaker 4: to give something up for the religious group her parents
Speaker 4: had decided to join. The fire grew bigger. She felt
Speaker 4: the heat on her face.
Speaker 2: Sparks coming out of it. It was wild, It really was.
Speaker 2: I've never seen anything like that in my life. The
Speaker 2: flames just dancing. It felt like they were reaching to
Speaker 2: the sky. It lasted for three days. The fire continually burned.
Speaker 1: Coming up this season on.
Speaker 3: The Turning this especially Agent Jackie Doer the FBI Baltimore Division.
Speaker 3: It is ten oh four am on Wednesday, March twenty seven,
Speaker 3: twenty thirteen. How did your parents get into what's refer
Speaker 3: to as a cult?
Speaker 5: I remember feeling like I couldn't say no. I didn't
Speaker 5: even know if my parents would want me back because
Speaker 5: they gave me to him. I just remember feeling almost
Speaker 5: like I had no other options, that the only thing
Speaker 5: to say was yes. That I would say, and all
Speaker 5: ten of us said yes.
Speaker 1: How can one person control so many people and change
Speaker 1: their will.
Speaker 2: I don't care what happens when Jesus Christ comes back.
Speaker 2: Whatever happens to me, it cannot possibly be worse than this.
Speaker 2: That thought scared me. My heart was beating out of
Speaker 2: my chest. I felt like I could hear it. He
Speaker 2: was talking about how much God loved me, and how
Speaker 2: special I was, and how God had chosen me. We
Speaker 2: had these oil lanterns on the walls, and we were
Speaker 2: all just standing in a line. When we're chosen, we
Speaker 2: had decided to give our lives. This is almost like
Speaker 2: the ultimate sacrifice.
Speaker 4: The Turning is a production of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 4: It's written and produced by Erica Lance and Me. Our
Speaker 4: story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed by
Speaker 4: James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact checking
Speaker 4: by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. Our executive producers are John Parratti
Speaker 4: and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch, and Katrina Norvell and
Speaker 4: Nikki Etur at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us on
Speaker 4: Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out via
Speaker 4: email The Turning at Rococo Punch dot com. I'm Alan
Speaker 4: Lance Lesser, Thanks for listening,