WEBVTT - S3:EP 1 - The Camp 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:14.040 When Lindsay Tornambi was young, she lived in a remote community. 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.400 It was far north in the woods of Minnesota, clusters 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.560 of cabins and trailers, hidden among pine trees and lakes, 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.799 with no real connection to the outside world. About one 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:30.400 hundred and fifty people lived there together. They had all 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:39.360 moved there for a very specific reason to follow. One 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.200 Sunday morning, they were all getting ready for the day. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.040 Lindsay was twelve at the time, a girl with dark 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:49.880 wavy hair, brown eyes like deep pools. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.680 I think I was just at home in the trailer 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:53.479 where we lived. 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.680 She lived with her family in a double wide trailer home, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.280 and that morning Lindsay did what she always did. She 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.760 was eating breakfast, helping her sister pick out an outfit. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.839 And all of a sudden, I remember like my mom yelling, 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.160 the eagles are gathering. The eagles are going, And I. 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:12.600 Was like, what, the eagles are gathering. 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:20.600 There was this huge bell that you would ring that 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.760 you could hear from different places. You started hearing people screaming, 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.200 the eagles are gathering, the eagles are gathering. The bells 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.959 started ringing, the phone started ringing. Everyone was just like 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.880 went crazy. 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.920 Because the eagles are gathering was a code, and the 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.039 code meant Jesus is here. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.680 Jesus Christ was something back like this was it. He 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:44.080 was coming. We were going to heaven. 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:44.560 You know. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.040 It's so it was like euphoria. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:59.520 Yeah, I remember my mom being like so excited, like, 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:01.760 oh my gosh, we got to get to the Shepherd's Camp. 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.360 We can't miss it. Get yourself in the van as 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.679 fast as you can. Everyone literally dropped what they were doing. 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.280 I mean everyone was just panicking. Like you could see 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.280 all the cars just flying, the dust clouds, the dirt 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:17.720 just like flying up. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.799 They had a designated meeting spot, a central location where 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.320 they all worshiped, a place called the Shepherd's Camp. Here 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:30.600 they would greet Jesus and descend with him to Heaven. 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.400 People showed up to the Shepherd's Camp with shampoos still 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.320 in their hair. Somebody said that they had left the 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.680 iron on, somebody had left the oven on. People were 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.000 half dressed, missing a shoe or something. People were just 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:48.920 like piling in and everyone gathered in front of the 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:53.480 dining hall, which we called taberna. It was the end times, 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.040 This was it. Jesus Christ is coming back. 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.000 A man came out to meet them at the dining hall. 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.600 He had brown hair and a short beard. He was 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.120 thin but strong looking. Everyone watched him, waiting to hear 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:23.399 what he would say. His name was Victor Bernard. Lindsay's 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.200 family was part of a group called River Road Fellowship, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.800 a religious organization named for a road in Minnesota. A 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:35.080 group founded and created by this man, Victor, who would 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.160 change all of his followers' lives. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:44.560 It's hard to describe Victor. I don't think I knew 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.680 why I loved him. I just knew that everyone did. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.040 You saw all of this respect and honor and love 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:58.200 for him, and I was like, Okay, this is who 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.000 God had sent to us, and this is our chef 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.920 and the one who takes care of us. Sometimes it 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:09.440 still confuses me as to why one how quickly they 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:14.280 just either were brainwashed or I don't even know how 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.800 to explain why they did what they did or what 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:22.839 they were thinking. It's a mixture of sadness, of anger, 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:27.880 of sometimes wishing it never happened. I mean, you can't 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.440 go back and change anything. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.200 Here in this community. Sometimes things that seem perfect are 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.920 anything but air that smells like pine trees, that sway 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:46.080 in the wind loons calling over the water, a lake 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:56.400 so still it looks like glass. Everyone smiles. They plaster 0:04:56.480 --> 0:04:59.520 it on their faces until it feels natural. They express 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.799 gratitude in every conversation. God loves us. Give thanks to God. 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.200 We'll have our own paradises, our own planets, even better 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:15.039 than we could imagine here on earth. The community tries 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.680 to hide from the dangers of the outside world, the 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.839 temptations lurking beyond the walls of their utopia. But the 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:26.880 smiling faces and the sparkling lake hide something dark and crushing. 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:46.280 For Cocoa Punch. 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.960 And iHeart podcasts, this is the Turning River Road I 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.720 America Lance and I. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:57.040 Meln Lance Lesser Part one they can. 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.320 If you've listened to The Turning you probably know that. 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:09.440 My sister Alan and I make this show together. And 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:12.000 a few years ago, Allen told me about a story 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.919 I had never heard before, a story she couldn't stop 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:17.280 talking about. Lindsay's story. 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.719 I couldn't stop talking about it because I was surprised 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.000 it all happened so close to where we'd grown up. 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.680 While we were growing up. We live in Minneapolis, Minnesota, 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.680 and Lindsay was in Pine County just two hours north 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:33.360 of us. Our family had driven through the area many times, 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.360 we didn't know that a man named Victor Bernard lived 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.520 off a dirt road somewhere in Pine County, a man 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.360 who called himself an apostle and convinced dozens of families 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:50.560 to join him. It felt strange that for years we'd 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.640 been investigating groups with leaders who wielded absolute power, who 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.960 could enlighten and inspire, but who could also admonish and harm, 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:04.320 And here was an example in our own backyard. When 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.039 I found out about Lindsay, I googled her. She's a 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:10.520 woman in her thirties, now around my age. Her LinkedIn 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.280 profile pictures showed her in a graduation cap and gown 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:16.960 in front of Philadelphia City Hall. I did a double take. 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.000 I've taken pictures in that exact spot with friends. I've 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.200 walked down that street countless times because I lived in 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.480 Philadelphia in my twenties around the same time Lindsay took 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:33.360 that picture. Lindsay's face was smiley and friendly, looking so unpretentious, 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.280 just sweet, like someone i'd want to be friends with. 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.120 I felt weirdly drawn to her, even though our lives 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.360 from the outside looked like they moved in almost parallel lines. 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.760 They were so different. So I wrote to Lindsay and 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:49.640 we started talking. 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.160 Lindsay said, while Allen and I were attending middle school, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.680 she'd been selected to join an inner sanctum of her community, 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:01.440 an elite group inside River Road Fellowship that required her 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.480 to give even more of herself away. How did this 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.560 attempt at utopia turn into something twisted? How was it 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.880 that even the people who saw what happened would deny 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.000 what was in front of their eyes? And though Lindsay 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.720 was small, one of the youngest of the group, she 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.000 would be the one to reveal the secret that was 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:29.800 hidden inside. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.200 Before she was in River Road, before Minnesota, Lindsay lived 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.080 in Pennsylvania with her parents and three siblings, growing up 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:40.560 in the nineties. She was a product of the time. 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.880 She loved her beanie babies, the Backstreet boys, and musicals. 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:49.600 Like Annie, I loved to entertain people and saying and 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:51.400 do all the voices. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.800 Her dad had a soft pretzel business, and her mom 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:55.480 stayed at home. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:58.120 She was a talker. My mom loved to talk, could 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.400 talk to anyone with her hair and so animated. 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.920 She wore hot pink lipstick and went through what Lindsay 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:12.679 calls her mom's sequin phase. Lindsay was really into gymnastics. 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.640 I loved the power of it. Was almost like daring. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.120 Her dad made a homemade balance beam so she could practice, 0:09:21.640 --> 0:09:24.000 and her parents took her to see the US women's 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.000 gymnastics team on tour after they won gold at the 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:31.360 nineteen ninety six Olympics. Lindsay could picture herself on those 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.840 mats and beams, like a fantasy future playing out in 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:41.400 front of her, so distant but suddenly so close. But 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.280 she'd never get to pursue this dream because this was 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.440 the year nineteen ninety six. When her parents opened their 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:55.600 door to a stranger. In November of that year, Lindsay 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.280 was nine years old. Her parents said they were having 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.319 some dinner guests, some friends of a friend. The guests 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.160 had traveled all the way from Minnesota to Pennsylvania to 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.840 meet Lindsay's family for the first time. One of these 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:09.880 guests was Victor Bernard. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:12.680 That's the first time that they met him. 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.160 And what did he look like at that time? 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.760 Dark hair, some sort of facial hair, more on the 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:22.280 like fit side. 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.320 Victor was there with a woman we'll call her jan 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.760 though that's not her real name. Jan worked with him 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.839 kind of like a second in command. Lindsay said she 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.079 had a hard looking face with long pin straight brown 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:36.319 hair and bangs. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:42.880 They smoked. I remember that they smoked cigarettes, And I 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.920 remember Victor being like, you know, when you're little and 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:49.000 you can just tell an adult who carries like a 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.000 lot of authority, and you kind of just you could 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:52.840 tell that from him. 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:58.280 What about him do you think indicated to you at 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:01.200 the time that he was someone of authority. 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:09.120 I think his intensity. He was very intense, and I 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:14.360 think just the way he carried himself almost with purpose, 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:20.840 like a confidence. Yeah. He just didn't seem like a warm, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:26.640 fun kind of guy. Just very intense. Yeah, I think 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:27.200 that's the word. 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.520 Victor was there to talk to Lindsay's parents about a 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:34.480 group he had started. He said he and his wife 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.120 and children and a bunch of other families all lived 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:40.800 together on a plot of land in Minnesota. They farmed 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.280 and worshiped God, and Victor wanted Lindsay's family to try 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:44.800 it out too. 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.120 I was kind of really indifferent at that time, had 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:54.520 no clue what was going on, so oblivious to any 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.680 like adult conversations that were happening. But me and my 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.959 sisters we love to dance, so I remember we put 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.080 on like a show for them. I don't know if 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:03.679 you guys did that. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.200 Oh yeah, we did that all the time. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.400 Yeah, so we made up this huge dance. The house 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.280 we were living at the time had a huge family room. 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.400 I remember like running from one end to the other 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.640 and lifting up one of my siblings in the air 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:25.199 and we'd do our jumps in our leaps and pretty 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:26.080 sure they clapped. 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.280 Jan seemed nice. She told Lindsay about the place they lived. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:32.600 They took care of all kinds of animals. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.720 She was telling us about all the kids who lived there, 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.760 and she said they had a pond and a lake 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.480 that they could go swimming in in the summer. I 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.160 was like, oh, that sounds fun. 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.440 Big decisions about Lindsay's future were being made that night. 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:57.080 Unbeknownst to her, Lindsay's mom pulled her aside. Afterward, Victor 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.520 had some thoughts on Lindsay's life. 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.040 Somehow he convinced my mother to take me out of gymnastics. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.840 I remember my mom sat down with me like shortly 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.240 after they left and said, when Jesus Christ comes back, 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.320 he's not gonna say, oh, Lindsay, I'm so proud of you, 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.080 because she got so many gold medals and gymnastics. She 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.880 just talked about, you know what Jesus Christ would care 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:26.440 about when we get to heaven, and it definitely wouldn't 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.880 be getting gold medal at the Olympics. He's gonna judge 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.760 us by our character here on earth and what we 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.600 did for him. And I remember crying and being so 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:42.960 upset and like telling her that, but my dream was 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:47.120 to become an Olympian. And I don't remember it being 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:51.280 like a super long conversation. She probably didn't really think 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.440 about how it would affect me. I guess there was 0:13:55.640 --> 0:14:11.480 really no arguing, So yeah, they pulled me out of gymnastics. 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.400 For as long as Lindsay can remember, it seemed her 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:16.880 parents were always searching. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:19.320 They always were the type of people who needed to 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:20.320 follow someone. 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.320 Long before they joined River Road Fellowship, their social circle 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.600 was defined by a different group of families who had 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:29.080 all met through a kind of church. They were part 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:35.720 of a Christian organization called The Way International or The Way. 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.440 The Way was founded by an evangelical pastor who started 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.280 preaching his less orthodox ideas about the Bible on radio 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:46.680 programs In the nineteen forties, he recruited members around the 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.840 world and introduced new followers to his belief system through 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:54.200 a course called Power for Abundant Living. The vibe I 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:59.760 get is self improvement mixed with religion, but The Way 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.040 was all also known for its cult like tendencies. Some 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.520 former members used words like love bombing and brainwashing to 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:11.200 describe it. They tell stories of constant supervision and sleep deprivation, 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.560 of being singled out or embarrassed into submission if they 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.040 tried to resist the leader's directions, or even shut out 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.080 completely so no one was allowed to talk or interact 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:25.080 with them. Some said they got firearm training and were 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:29.880 warned they might need to use it. Victor Bernard was 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.800 a member of the Way too, but Lindsay's parents didn't 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.040 know him yet. In the meantime, they hosted fellowships for 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.600 the Way in their home. These informal religious services slash 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.320 prayer groups. They would talk about their unusual interpretations of 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:47.400 the Bible, and sometimes they spoke in tongues. It was 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:52.720 all interwoven until Lindsay's childhood. 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.560 And I remember my mom telling me stories that I 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.080 was speaking in tongues almost before I could talk, which 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:02.320 I don't. I mean, you'd think that that would just 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:02.960 be babbel. 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:05.520 Then yeah, you're like, is that just baby babel? 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.720 Yeah? Yeah, And she would say we'd go to the 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.960 park all the time and she'd push me on the 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.720 swings and I'd be playing and we'd be like singing, 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.200 you know, this little light of mine, like all those 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:21.400 songs and speaking in tongues and yeah, So I had 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:22.520 grown up with this. 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.280 When she got a little older, Lindsey was expected to 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:30.960 participate in fellowships, which made her nervous. Speaking in tongues 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.000 scared her the most. She'd have to speak in tongues 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:35.920 and then provide a translation for the group. 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:38.120 I mean, I can remember from the time I was 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.640 probably ten years old, pre planning what I would say. 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:43.720 Did you think that other people did that? 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.120 Or did you just think that everyone else seemed to 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:47.640 actually be channeling God? 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:48.240 Oh? 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.280 I thought everyone else was channeling the Lord. I was like, 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.800 what is wrongs me? You know, like it just it 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.880 seemed so hard. I mean maybe maybe in the back 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:01.840 my mind, I thought, you know, maybe some of the 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.960 other kids had trouble, but for some people it seemed 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.240 to come so naturally, you know, and they were just 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.000 so especially some of the adults. It was so beautiful 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.080 what they were saying and the words they would be 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.480 so encouraging and uplifting, and I was like, this can't 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:19.280 be made up, you know, like they have to know 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.639 what they're doing. But little on me here is stuck 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.120 with this tongue and having to write the words ahead 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:30.679 of time. Yeah, it does unstressful. Yeah, it was like 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.160 my hands are starting to sweat just remembering it. 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.400 After the founder of the Way died in the mid eighties, 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.600 a lot of people started leaving the group. The collapse 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.480 left her parents searching once again, which led them to Amway, 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.119 the infamous multi level marketing company that sells health and 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.560 beauty products, among other things. It felt an awful lot 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.120 like a pyramid scheme, and they were like. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.920 Super gung ho about that, and like almost making vision 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.320 boards of the house we wanted in the cars that 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:07.560 we wanted, and they had all these different levels like ruby, diamond, emerald, 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.160 and like my mom would write like go diamond with 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:17.960 her colored eyeliner on her mirror in the bathroom. Maybe 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.119 they just never would have been those parents that would 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:23.679 have protected their children as much or something, you know, 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:27.399 like they just they almost needed somebody to look up to. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.560 Emily didn't last, though, and a few months after their 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.920 dinner with a Victor, Lindsay's family decided to visit River 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.159 Road Fellowship for the first time. The first trip to 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.520 Minnesota was just for a visit. The drive was long, 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.879 especially for a ten year old like Lindsay. She watched 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:04.080 out the window the landscape changed from nondescript highway to lush, 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:13.640 green pines. Lindsay imagines Laura Ingles Wilder from her beloved 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.760 Little House on the Prairie books. Traveling through this exact 0:19:16.840 --> 0:19:20.080 landscape and a covered wagon in the eighteen hundreds, it 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:25.560 felt like an adventure. It took them twenty hours to 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.600 reach the town of Finlanson, Minnesota. 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:33.399 Have y'all ever been to Finlisten? Okay? So it's a 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.000 town I think of three hundred and fifteen people. It 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:42.159 is very tiny. We drove through like the town like downtown, 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.240 and my dad was like you could blink and you'd 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:47.160 be through it. There was a pea trees, gas station 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.919 and bait tackle shop joined together, and then a post 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:58.000 office and that was pretty much it I remember us 0:19:58.080 --> 0:20:00.359 joking that you could see, you know, in movie you 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.480 see the tumble weeds blowing through the streets. I swore 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:06.719 I saw one, but I probably just made it up 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.120 in my head because it was like nothing I'd ever 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.560 seen before. We drove through. There was a egg ranch 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:19.000 and it smelled terrible, like huge buildings filled with chickens 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:22.520 and the smell. I was like, what is this? That 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:28.159 just smelled like crap, really really bad. And we just 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:29.000 keep driving. 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.480 The longer they drove, the more excited Lindsay got. She 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.360 was building up this utopia in her head. Finally they 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:39.440 turned off the main road. 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.359 It's this bump and then it's the gravel. There's the 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:45.720 dust everywhere, and you hear all the rocks flying and 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.439 hitting the car. And at that point we knew that 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.119 we were close because they told us like, when she 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:57.560 hit the gravel road, you're close. So I remember like 0:20:57.600 --> 0:20:59.960 sitting up and looking out and it's just trees everyone, 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:02.400 and you know, like old fences. 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:06.800 Then in the distance among the trees, between two big 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:10.840 wooden pillars, they saw the sign the Shepherd's Camp. 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:20.040 And we turn in. It was beautiful, I mean, the 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:25.359 camp was gorgeous. It was tall trees everywhere in green 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:27.800 grass and a pond that led out into a lake, 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:33.119 and it just smelled like pine trees. I don't think 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.800 I'd ever smelled so much pine in my life, like 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:44.560 very crisp and clean. We could see the dining hall 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:49.119 and like people started pouring out. All these kids were 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:52.240 running out of the dining hall, and I just remember 0:21:52.280 --> 0:21:54.879 being really excited. I don't think I was shy to 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:56.640 meet the kids at all. I was like, I've heard 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.879 so much about you, and the kids were so n 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:02.840 wanted to like hang out and show us around and 0:22:02.920 --> 0:22:08.520 play and wanted to know all about our lives. They 0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:12.080 lived very different than us, so many people on one property, 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:16.080 you know. I was like it just it seemed fun, though, 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:17.800 Like if you had all these kids to play with 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.920 every single day, I mean, you have never ending play dates. 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:21.919 It's the dream. 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:27.080 Yeah. Yeah. I remember doing like cartwheels and back handsprings 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.199 for them, and they thought that was so cool that 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:30.400 I could do that stuff. 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:36.280 Lindsay's family stayed for a week. Lindsay had never spent 0:22:36.440 --> 0:22:38.280 so much time outside. 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.439 I remember getting like very sappy, and my hands had 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.000 never had like tree sap on them. Before you know. 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.399 I remember there were fields where the grass was so 0:22:48.600 --> 0:22:50.919 high and you would go on your hands and knees 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.159 to make tunnels through the grass. You couldn't see the 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:56.680 tunnels if you were standing outside, but if you found 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:00.280 the entrance, the grass would be flattened where you made 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:04.240 your little tunnel. So yeah, we played like all through 0:23:04.280 --> 0:23:09.400 the woods made forts. The further you went down the road, 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.400 like deeper into the camp, the more woods there were. 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:16.440 When they weren't playing in the woods, the kids helped 0:23:16.440 --> 0:23:20.080 take care of the farm animals. In this utopia, everyone 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.359 had a role in their survival, working the land and 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.639 raising their own livestock. Let them be mostly self sufficient. 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.520 They let them stay close to their profit, away from 0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:31.000 the world. 0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:37.800 They had sheep and cows and pigs and rabbits chickens. 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:40.959 But it was all fun like I just joined in 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:45.040 like I had known them my entire life. 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:48.359 At meal time Victor took the stage, he told them 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.680 Christ will return. Lindsay took her cues from the adults 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.959 in the room. When he spoke, everyone listened. 0:23:57.200 --> 0:24:02.439 So I remember meals being so long, hours long at times, 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.720 and we'd have to sit there, and I remember my 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:12.159 mom was like infatuated with Victor and loved everything about 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:18.080 the camp and furiously taking notes. Anytime he spoke, he 0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:21.880 could be like so charismatic and just suck you in, 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:26.399 like the way he moved his words his voice, and 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.040 then the urgency too. I mean, every time he preached 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:30.920 it was always you know, the Lord is coming back, 0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:31.960 The Lord is coming back. 0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:35.520 Lindsay's mom believed Victor when he said Jesus was going 0:24:35.560 --> 0:24:39.240 to return, and when Jesus returned, he would find them 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:43.840 there in Minnesota at the Shepherd's Camp. Lindsay had an 0:24:43.840 --> 0:24:46.800 image in her head of all of Victor's followers being 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:48.320 sucked into the sky. 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.399 Like the rapture kind of And that's how I always 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.320 envisioned it is, okay, we're all here, and then whoop 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:55.680 everyone up in the air. 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:00.679 Even when he wasn't preaching everyone and wanted to be 0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.320 around Victor, he might look you in the eye and 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:05.600 compliment you in a way that made you feel amazing. 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:10.280 It was almost like if your favorite singer or actor, 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:13.919 if they acknowledged you paid you a compliment. I mean, 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:16.200 you would be on like a high. I know mine 0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:20.560 would be Kevin Gossner, But I think because he had 0:25:20.560 --> 0:25:24.200 been portrayed as this man of God and so important 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:28.520 and put up on that pedestal. If he spoke to me, 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:35.879 it was like a really big deal. There was that 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:38.760 feeling of you know when you hold your breath and 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:41.679