Speaker 1: Most of you have been following the case with the
Speaker 1: same figure as you did the O. J. Simpson trial.
Speaker 1: So congrats to all the subway fans out there. Take
Speaker 1: a hot shower, long, hot steamy shower, right, get out,
Speaker 1: don't try off, and put all your clothes back on
Speaker 1: and have your wife just scream at you. It's like
Speaker 1: everybody's grandfather. Like, went surfishing twice, hit a couple of
Speaker 1: trout openers, did some bass fishing. It's always like power
Speaker 1: bait here amid sinkers and the guts of some old
Speaker 1: spin reel. It was one of those karma moments where
Speaker 1: you were telling all the tree huggers to leave you alone,
Speaker 1: and I'm bleeding it. I'm telling you it was very painful.
Speaker 1: Good morning to generate Anglers, and welcome to Bent the
Speaker 1: Fishing Podcast from Iowa. It still believes if it can
Speaker 1: just get to Florida in mid January, it will find
Speaker 1: guaranteed warmth, happiness and pure fishing nirvana. I'm Joe Surmeli,
Speaker 1: and here to refute that belief, possibly along with many
Speaker 1: other beliefs about the state of Florida, is my guest
Speaker 1: co host Port St. Lucy's own Captain Zach Hammer Miller. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean sure, if you guys want to come down
Speaker 1: here and waiting endless lines of snowbirds trying to get
Speaker 1: lottery tickets while you're trying to be at the boat ramp.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you like tugging on little stuff
Speaker 1: all winter, that should be fine for all you Midwesterners
Speaker 1: out there. There you go, there you got. I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you, man, when Miles flew the coop, um, you've
Speaker 1: got quite a few nods from the Bent Legions as
Speaker 1: a replacement host. And I kind of knew you would.
Speaker 1: I figured you would, right, But yeah, but as much
Speaker 1: as I love you, I do recognize that non Hammer
Speaker 1: people can also find you like two abrasive. So like,
Speaker 1: do you consider yourself abrasive at us? Yes? Absolutely actually,
Speaker 1: But at first I really want to thank you for
Speaker 1: the opportunity to come here and it co hosts the
Speaker 1: show with you. This is like one of my bucket
Speaker 1: list things. And even though Miles flew the coop, you know,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you inviting me here, But like nobody wants
Speaker 1: to be the guy trying to replace the guy that's
Speaker 1: like trying to be the coach of the Patriots after
Speaker 1: Bill Pelichick leaves, like and I mean that guy not
Speaker 1: only that, like he went to a pan Terror show
Speaker 1: and survived in their prime and you're trying to bring
Speaker 1: me in and I gotta follow this like, thanks, buddy,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. He's talking about Miles at Pantera,
Speaker 1: by the way, not Bill Belichick. Just so we were
Speaker 1: clear on that. Um. So for those of you that
Speaker 1: don't know Zach right, he has been on this show
Speaker 1: several times. We go way back. We met many years
Speaker 1: ago while you were still heavily involved in the land
Speaker 1: based shark fishing scene in Florida. That's that's what I
Speaker 1: came down there to do, called a big old hammer head.
Speaker 1: And back then you were like the feet glued to
Speaker 1: the sand and peer guy. And like most surf fishermen
Speaker 1: I know myself included, right, they're all about that life
Speaker 1: until they buy a boat, which you did and became
Speaker 1: a captain. And so what do you run in these days?
Speaker 1: Like a nineteen seventy six Mckeykraft bower Rider or something
Speaker 1: like that. I wish I had that kind of coin.
Speaker 1: Those things are actually pretty expensive there on the aftermarket
Speaker 1: as collectors items. I saw one guy that was wanted
Speaker 1: like twenty grand for like a sixteen ft nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: Boston whaler, and I'm like, what are you doing with this?
Speaker 1: Like my trailer is worth more than this thing. But
Speaker 1: people pay for it somewhere. But I I we just
Speaker 1: did a whole dost boat series about it on a
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six Mako. Did you really Yeah? Didn't? Did
Speaker 1: you miss all of that? The Insider Dutch? Thanks Bud,
Speaker 1: Thanks Bud. I wish we appreciate you. I love you, man.
Speaker 1: But I'm running I'm running up two pro line bay
Speaker 1: boat right now. It's a piece of ship. It's literally
Speaker 1: and figuratively a money pit. Literally, I just take money,
Speaker 1: a hundred dollar bills to just throw it out in
Speaker 1: the hole when I walk into my driveway every morning.
Speaker 1: And like, what's sad about it is it's so identical
Speaker 1: to a Pathfinder. They actually got sued by Pathfinder and
Speaker 1: they had to stop making them after two years. So
Speaker 1: I call it the poor fine but you know, like yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we're we're the qualities lacking. It's easy to see. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: that's fair, so listen. So one of the things I
Speaker 1: enjoy about you, and you just sort of started to demonstrated,
Speaker 1: Um is that I know, I know you refuse to
Speaker 1: leave the state of Florida because of the fishing. The
Speaker 1: fishing keeps you there, but otherwise you seem to hate
Speaker 1: everything about the state of Florida, right, And I guess
Speaker 1: we I guess we can kind of call the loose
Speaker 1: theme of this episode like true Florida, Like you're gonna
Speaker 1: tell us about like the real Florida. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean what's left of it at least if you can
Speaker 1: even call anything that's whatever semblance of what I grew
Speaker 1: up here in my short time on this you know,
Speaker 1: spinning rock. But yeah, I mean, you are right, you
Speaker 1: are correct in your you know what you're saying there,
Speaker 1: Like I would not leave Florida because of the fishing,
Speaker 1: but everything else here is literally like living on hell
Speaker 1: on Earth. Okay, Well, furthermore, right, you've never really struck
Speaker 1: me as a people person per se, Right, But yet yeah, yet,
Speaker 1: now you're a guide for hire, So how does that
Speaker 1: play out? Like? I also think it is fair to
Speaker 1: point out that you're not a full time captain like
Speaker 1: you you do not rely solely on that to pay
Speaker 1: the bills. Thank you for pointing that out, because if
Speaker 1: it was my sole way of paying bills and be
Speaker 1: living in what's left of my poor finder under an
Speaker 1: overpat somewhere with my with my trim motor ruined on
Speaker 1: my engine right now, it puts a lot less stress
Speaker 1: when you actually have to repair these things, when you're
Speaker 1: paying your bills with it. You know, it's nice to
Speaker 1: walk out and like that's a nice boat in my drugway.
Speaker 1: One day I'm gonna get that old girl running again
Speaker 1: and running charters. So wait, so when you do have
Speaker 1: time to actually take a paying customer out right, this
Speaker 1: is what I want to know, sort of talk to
Speaker 1: me because I have not been out on your boat.
Speaker 1: I want people to know that we fished a lot
Speaker 1: of different ways on other boats and on the beach,
Speaker 1: but I've never been on your boat. So like, here's
Speaker 1: your chance. I want you to do like a like
Speaker 1: a like a little throw down phishing charters infomercial, Like
Speaker 1: what can the person like on the fence with that
Speaker 1: deposit money, just burning a hole in his or her
Speaker 1: pocket expect out of a throw down fishing charter. Well, essentially,
Speaker 1: it really depends on what season we're talking about. But
Speaker 1: let's just say it's summer just for the hell of it,
Speaker 1: because that's going to catch our biggest fish and the
Speaker 1: best fishing and flat oceans and blah blah blah postcard.
Speaker 1: But if you're really out here wondering what it's like,
Speaker 1: imagine coming down here, like you just left Minnesota. You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to catch king fish and sailfish and goliath
Speaker 1: grouper with Captain Zach and July in South Florida. You
Speaker 1: come down here and the only way I could describe
Speaker 1: it so you are prepared for it besides my absolute
Speaker 1: misery on the boat because you're probably not listening to
Speaker 1: what I'm telling you to do to catch the fish.
Speaker 1: Such a great endorsement for your it listn't. This is
Speaker 1: all about being real here man, stronger than all. And
Speaker 1: if you want to know what it's like and you
Speaker 1: just want to prepare yourself for coming here in July
Speaker 1: to fish with me, just go into shower. Take a
Speaker 1: hot shower, a long, hot, steamy shower. Right get out,
Speaker 1: don't try off and put all your clothes back on
Speaker 1: and have your wife just scream at you, because that's
Speaker 1: essentially what this is gonna be like but with a
Speaker 1: lot more fish hopefully as long as you listen. Oh man,
Speaker 1: that's that, and I believe that that is that. It's
Speaker 1: about as pinpoint accurate as you. Yeah, there's no tea top,
Speaker 1: there's no shade. You are probably going to die. Just
Speaker 1: make sure you leave your card number on file. So
Speaker 1: sor right so you you might be running a very hot,
Speaker 1: steamy sled now. But as we've already established, you did
Speaker 1: grow up in the surf and and pier scene, in
Speaker 1: particular in Florida, which was quite a unique deal, like
Speaker 1: a lot of pure culture right back in the day.
Speaker 1: And I know that's changed a bunch, which we're going
Speaker 1: to touch on in this week's Smooth Move, which we're
Speaker 1: actually recording together right where. We're teaming up for our
Speaker 1: smooth Move this week, and joining us is your good
Speaker 1: buddy Brendan Winters, who's got a cringe worthy story from
Speaker 1: your old peer days. Why so joining us today for
Speaker 1: Smooth Moves. First, I should say Zach is joining us
Speaker 1: for Smooth Moves. I am not solo. My guest co
Speaker 1: host is here with me. Check in, check your micsn Hey,
Speaker 1: are you still here? You're still here in this episode.
Speaker 1: And this is cool because we're actually we're sitting here
Speaker 1: with with Brendan Winters, who is a friend old friend
Speaker 1: of yours, former roommate. But we originally had the idea,
Speaker 1: Zach had the idea of having you on originally because
Speaker 1: you are a service manager to local marina and we figured,
Speaker 1: you know, smooth Moves is all about industry guys, any
Speaker 1: any part of the fishing industry, like if there's if
Speaker 1: there's stories to tell, we want to hear him. But
Speaker 1: then he told me that you're actually one of his
Speaker 1: old peer buddies. Like you guys grew up fishing the
Speaker 1: pier scene together before it sort of got got messed
Speaker 1: up and weird. According to Zact like what changed. Lots
Speaker 1: of things, man closing during nighttime, um, you know, shark
Speaker 1: fishing off the piers started getting you know regulated, people
Speaker 1: were starting to uh, you know, call the cops. It
Speaker 1: was a big deal. I mean, not even that. All
Speaker 1: the way down to finding parking was an absolute joke.
Speaker 1: I mean it was ridiculous. Every where we went, didn't
Speaker 1: matter where. Yeah, and it got really bad there because
Speaker 1: like you know, our parents would just drop us off
Speaker 1: on the pier for two or three days at a
Speaker 1: time and just say like say sorry about your luck.
Speaker 1: Figure it out, and like oh yeah, they're yeah twenty,
Speaker 1: I got ten. It was three f nentry. So like
Speaker 1: you're hustling trying to sell fish to like go get
Speaker 1: a Tony's microwave pizza at the seven eleven once every
Speaker 1: two days. And saviki riggs were like four dollars a pack.
Speaker 1: If you lost a saviki, you were done, Like you
Speaker 1: better be good with a snatch hook on the chum bag.
Speaker 1: But other than no doubt. Yeah, And like we would
Speaker 1: sit there and it was out of control because like
Speaker 1: our parents like, oh, they're fishing on a pier that's
Speaker 1: only four hours next to nine bars, how bad could
Speaker 1: it be? And like all the guys who were like
Speaker 1: thirty years older than us, we're sleeping under tarps with
Speaker 1: them and they're blowing pills and stuff under the tarps
Speaker 1: and like like oh, yeah, no, this is just normal.
Speaker 1: You know what could go wrong? But and then they
Speaker 1: started calling the cops because they're like, you can't have
Speaker 1: fifteen year old kids sleeping on a pier for three days,
Speaker 1: like a bunch of homeless people. Come on, man, So
Speaker 1: you guys basically caught the end of like the what
Speaker 1: would be the wild West days of the piers scene
Speaker 1: down there. Yeah. No, we were the last like true
Speaker 1: group going through there before like social media and all
Speaker 1: the regulations and stuff. But like when it started getting
Speaker 1: out into the public and people started seeing and like
Speaker 1: videotaping everything in pictures like, it all kind of dived
Speaker 1: shortly after. But like the wild West of that was
Speaker 1: like the wild West, like there was some there was
Speaker 1: worse stuff going on in some of those piers than
Speaker 1: the bars. Yeah. Yeah, so you sort of tipped me
Speaker 1: off to the story we're gonna hear. I don't know
Speaker 1: all of it by request, but I said, we're gonna
Speaker 1: go to the boat maintenance customer service route maybe. But
Speaker 1: then then then I heard about this an old school
Speaker 1: pier story, and I'm like, this is the one that
Speaker 1: Brendan needs to tell. So I'm gonna give you the floor, man,
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys were there. I'm just sort of
Speaker 1: the bystander in this one. So so lay it on me.
Speaker 1: What happened? Well, so basically we have been fishing on
Speaker 1: the pier like usual. Probably I think it was a
Speaker 1: Saturday that it actually happened. We had been there since
Speaker 1: Friday night, and um, you know, the day had been slow.
Speaker 1: You know, we usually plan our days around catching benita,
Speaker 1: you know, king fish, barracout or whatever we've used for
Speaker 1: shark bait. Right, was just a slow day, you know.
Speaker 1: And um, I want to say, one of our buddies
Speaker 1: hooked a sting ray and I mean it took him
Speaker 1: all over the place, ended up walking it down to
Speaker 1: the shoreline. You know, a crowd gathered, you know, a
Speaker 1: bunch of tree huggers. You know, just don't kill it.
Speaker 1: Don't do this. You know, everyone's telling us, you know,
Speaker 1: you got it, you should do this, you should do that.
Speaker 1: We're like, I don't know, We're not listening to this anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, so we we end up, you know, lowering down.
Speaker 1: You know, the three hooks of death, the trouble hook,
Speaker 1: all right, and the gaff if you will stuck him
Speaker 1: on the first try, you know, get him up on
Speaker 1: the pier as everyone scream, you know, like bloody murder.
Speaker 1: We were killing an angel, you know, and uh, by
Speaker 1: the time it gets on the dock, you know, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a bloody mess. Without even cutting it up. Like,
Speaker 1: how big of a stingray? Are we talking three or
Speaker 1: four feet in circumference? I mean, it wasn't it wasn't huge.
Speaker 1: Fifty pounds maybe just rubber, like a couple of good baits,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, we had three. Yeah, we had three
Speaker 1: dollars and we needed shark baits to survive another night.
Speaker 1: Like you get off our back, lady, and I want
Speaker 1: to stay up until that moment. We were moments away
Speaker 1: about going to um one of the charters, you know,
Speaker 1: to ask them if they had caught any be needed
Speaker 1: on the way backs, you know, the trips and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we were. We were not spending an other night there
Speaker 1: without having anything to toss off the pier and wait
Speaker 1: for a spritter to pick up, you know. So our
Speaker 1: plans were made the moment we saw what it was.
Speaker 1: You know, we didn't care who said what or anybody
Speaker 1: just nobody could have told us any differently. We were
Speaker 1: doing what we were doing and there was nothing about it.
Speaker 1: So we get it on the dock and then you know,
Speaker 1: there's slowly becomes a crowd around us on the pier
Speaker 1: as well, and you know, because they allow observers to
Speaker 1: go on the pier and I guess you know, there
Speaker 1: was plenty of tree huggers on the pier as well,
Speaker 1: and you know, they kind of huddle around us, and
Speaker 1: you know, they're like, oh, this is terrible. You could
Speaker 1: hear everybody whispering like I can't believe they're gonna do this.
Speaker 1: This is terrible, poor Stingray. And just to clarify for
Speaker 1: the people, just to clarify, totally legal, right, you know,
Speaker 1: there was nothing yeah, yeah, yeah, right now, it's just
Speaker 1: feelings were getting hurt. But anyway, you know, so we
Speaker 1: get it up there, there starts to become a crowd.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, I want to say Jordan's ended up
Speaker 1: cutting the Stingray tail off. Unfortunately, wasn't you We were
Speaker 1: all huddled together. I mean we were we were working
Speaker 1: this thing. We're trying to make this in and out
Speaker 1: quick and easy, get it to the tea, you know,
Speaker 1: start cutting it up, getting it ready for you know,
Speaker 1: a late night snack, and uh, you know, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, we started clearing the
Speaker 1: way to drag it up to the front of the pier,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, let me get
Speaker 1: let me do you know, a little clean up here.
Speaker 1: Let me get this thing, ray barb the stingers, the pier.
Speaker 1: So I kicked it once and it kind of rolled.
Speaker 1: It was it was a It was a muff field goal.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was not good, and I was disappointed
Speaker 1: and I felt like I could have done better. I mean,
Speaker 1: I was wearing shoes that so unbelievably ironically had a
Speaker 1: hole in my right big toe, and when I kicked
Speaker 1: it the second time, it was like a hole in one.
Speaker 1: It went right through my big toe and into my foot.
Speaker 1: Its splinted my big toe through my shoe. Now I'm screaming.
Speaker 1: The second it happens. Is I knew I screwed up.
Speaker 1: The moment I kicked it, I knew I was like
Speaker 1: game over that guys, my night is done. I Am
Speaker 1: not sticking around for shark fishing. I gotta go to
Speaker 1: the hospital. I gotta go somewhere. And I'm screaming, and
Speaker 1: I'm begging Jordans, one of our buddies that was there,
Speaker 1: to pull it out. I'm like, Jordan, you gotta pull
Speaker 1: it out of my foot, Please, please pull it out
Speaker 1: of my foot, because it was stuck in there. The
Speaker 1: whole tale was hanging off the front of the It
Speaker 1: was gruesome, and they they thought I was kidding because
Speaker 1: I I joked around. I kid, I was always looking
Speaker 1: for the laugh. And and our buddy Chris Crow, he
Speaker 1: was dying laughing like he was on the floor, couldn't
Speaker 1: stop laughing. He thought it was the most hilarious thing ever.
Speaker 1: Jordan's ends up putting his two hands on it and
Speaker 1: tries to pull it, and he goes, dude, I can't
Speaker 1: do it. I don't know, I can't do it. So
Speaker 1: if you're familiar with the way of right tail and
Speaker 1: a barber come down as a the tail is one piece,
Speaker 1: the barbs the other. Yeah, and it was cut above
Speaker 1: that area. So what I did was I stuck my
Speaker 1: right hand in between the stinger and the barb, and
Speaker 1: as I pulled out, it shredded. All of my flesh
Speaker 1: coming out and all there was with a circular hole
Speaker 1: left in my foot. And as soon as I pulled
Speaker 1: it out, blood went everywhere, and the smiled and laughs
Speaker 1: from Chris disappeared. Everyone was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: cannot believe this just happened. And it was one of
Speaker 1: those karma moments where you were telling all the tree
Speaker 1: huggers to leave you alone. And you know, after that,
Speaker 1: I'm bleeding it and I'm telling you it was very painful.
Speaker 1: They didn't have any alo vera for you or anything.
Speaker 1: I'll get to how we solve that issue. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: some of the people that were Stingray advocates for the day,
Speaker 1: they were definitely like, oh, you got what you deserve,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm bleeding all over
Speaker 1: the place. I finally get my shoe off and they
Speaker 1: carried me down to the front of the pier and
Speaker 1: I got to sit behind the countertop there and I
Speaker 1: want to say, uh, Zach correct me for wrong. But
Speaker 1: wasn't um Paul working that day? Toothless Paul? I don't
Speaker 1: remember remember all this, Yeah gummy Paul we called actually yeah,
Speaker 1: gummy Paul and uh when he had the whole tale
Speaker 1: sticking out of his shoe, running around out of his
Speaker 1: case Swiss, I was dragging, Yeah, I was dragging the
Speaker 1: carcass of the sting right with the gaff through the face,
Speaker 1: up to the front of the pier. And I turned
Speaker 1: around and saw the commotion and screaming, and I saw
Speaker 1: it just flopping around like a dogtail and like, what's
Speaker 1: going on here? And then next thing you know, there's
Speaker 1: just blood everywhere and screams and people are cheering. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't a good moment. It was it was.
Speaker 1: It was painful on on a lot of levels, but
Speaker 1: mostly physical. Emotionally, I was I was preoccupied. But so
Speaker 1: I get to the I get to the front. They
Speaker 1: put me behind the counter and they kept putting my
Speaker 1: foot in bleach and hot water. And then if I
Speaker 1: took my my foot out of there, it was killing me.
Speaker 1: But if I put my foot in there, it hurt,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't that bad. So then they call my parents.
Speaker 1: They call an ambulance. An ambulance comes, hauls me away.
Speaker 1: My mom goes for the ride. We get to the
Speaker 1: emergency room. They rolled me in and they're doing X
Speaker 1: rays on my foot. They noticed that there is a
Speaker 1: speck of something in my foot still, and they're like
Speaker 1: we gotta do surgery and and he's got to be
Speaker 1: awake for it, blah blah blah blah blah, and and
Speaker 1: they're like shooting the needles into numb my foot, in
Speaker 1: my big toe, and they're like you're gonna feel some
Speaker 1: pressure blah blah blah, and I felt anything but pressure.
Speaker 1: I felt them cutting my foot open and removing the
Speaker 1: piece not gently, by the way, and then proceeding to
Speaker 1: pour iodine all over this open wound and scrubbing it
Speaker 1: because they had to make sure in section did not happen.
Speaker 1: And I literally was screaming. They gave me a towel
Speaker 1: to bite on. I mean it was I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: that was probably one of the worst things I could
Speaker 1: say that's ever happened. And I mean I stepped on
Speaker 1: a gas and it went through my foot and that
Speaker 1: wasn't even nearly as bad as this. I mean, this
Speaker 1: was next level bad. I will say this, I'm not
Speaker 1: scared of them when I catch them accidentally, because I
Speaker 1: feel like you can be careful and not have this happen.
Speaker 1: But I am like waiting in Texas or Florida, like
Speaker 1: I am wigged out by it. I like, I am
Speaker 1: so scared of that barb dude, and I know how
Speaker 1: far they can drive it in I hate to bring
Speaker 1: him up. Like Jeremy Wade did the thing about it once,
Speaker 1: but they did an experiment, and like they did it
Speaker 1: in slow with a slow mo camera, like dude. They'll
Speaker 1: drive that whole thing into a piece of beef from
Speaker 1: like tip to the end in a split second. We
Speaker 1: don't realize how far it'll go. It's not like you're
Speaker 1: just stepping on a thorn like they actually put motion
Speaker 1: into it and drive that thing. You've got circular barbs
Speaker 1: all the way around it, so when you pull on it,
Speaker 1: it's sticking like this. It goes in one way and
Speaker 1: don't want to come out. So when I pulled it,
Speaker 1: I ripped all of my flesh. It went into my
Speaker 1: foot four inches four inches into my foot. That's gnarly.
Speaker 1: That's gnarly, dude. My only question is are you still
Speaker 1: doing the case Swiss or if you like, move to
Speaker 1: steel toes since no, I I've I've moved on. I
Speaker 1: mean I've bounced around, uh you know, Adidas, Nike, I've
Speaker 1: had steel toes. I still have steel toes. I've got
Speaker 1: some cowboy boots. I mean, I'm diverse with my my footwear.
Speaker 1: Why aren't you signed on with Crocs For a short time,
Speaker 1: I was. I was a huge advocate, But I will
Speaker 1: tell you that completely debunks this whole story because if
Speaker 1: you look at Crocs closely, they have barb entries all
Speaker 1: over the place, so easy access. Yes, I tend to
Speaker 1: steer away from them when I'm doing something gnarly like
Speaker 1: shark faving. There you go. That's another knock against Crocs exactly,
Speaker 1: all right, So that was funny, right, But considering I
Speaker 1: have a thing about hand and foot injuries, that was
Speaker 1: also really in brutal, right, And I don't get squeaming
Speaker 1: about someone getting like stabbed in the stomach like I could.
Speaker 1: I could see that and be like, oh man, but
Speaker 1: hand and foot injuries make me want to hurl, which
Speaker 1: is a weakness I have, you know, and that is
Speaker 1: weak of you. I'm glad you admitted that, because that
Speaker 1: was strong, but you're still weak. I just wanted you
Speaker 1: to know that. But in general, I'm a little upset.
Speaker 1: The only thing that we don't have is a picture
Speaker 1: of its sticking out of his case Swiss shoe, because
Speaker 1: that could have been something he could have passed down
Speaker 1: to his little kids for generations to you know, dwell
Speaker 1: on and not where Crocs I did. I'm sure we
Speaker 1: could do a book or an entire series based around
Speaker 1: peer stories. Uh, but it's kind of something I wish
Speaker 1: I had experienced, but I did also get a kick
Speaker 1: out of how you guys used to beg for I
Speaker 1: used to beg for Benita at the Charter Docks because
Speaker 1: we talked on the show recently about how Bonita or
Speaker 1: what I call false Albacore are viewed differently by region,
Speaker 1: like they're revered here, you know this, but not there.
Speaker 1: In fact, you were one of the most Albie Hayitan
Speaker 1: sons of bitches. I know. Okay, listen, I mean, let's
Speaker 1: put it into context here. Do I hate Albi's guilty?
Speaker 1: Do I like them when they are called Bonita here
Speaker 1: in Florida? Yes? I do. They are a ton of fun.
Speaker 1: I love catching them when you know they're man sized,
Speaker 1: like fifteen two pounds, not when you're trying to risk
Speaker 1: life and limb in a McKey craft and eight swells
Speaker 1: trying to catch two pound fish. Like, let's let's let's
Speaker 1: just doing that. Let's keep it. I know you are
Speaker 1: and with our with our mutual buddy, Captain Eric Kerber
Speaker 1: here in Jersey, beating up on false Avocre with my
Speaker 1: arsenal of thirteen sticks, thirteen fishing rods, and I even
Speaker 1: had to play around with a spinning reel in the
Speaker 1: testing phase. How about that? And I gotta say they
Speaker 1: performed beautifully and a hard tale even you can't deny.
Speaker 1: We'll test the ship out of your drag. Like if
Speaker 1: you want to punish a reel and a rod Alb's
Speaker 1: that's a good way to do it. And my trusty
Speaker 1: Ooman green rod did great. Oh yeah, absolutely, those things
Speaker 1: will tear any tackle up. That's why I love them.
Speaker 1: They're great. I just don't know, you know, the appeal
Speaker 1: of the whole Northeast culture about the whole thing. I'll
Speaker 1: go out there and literally try to die to catch
Speaker 1: some some mouths. Like I was there. I was there.
Speaker 1: We're going al fish and it's blowing twenty five out
Speaker 1: of the Northeast and I'm like, we're going out that
Speaker 1: inlet right now to do what? Like that's I'm like,
Speaker 1: I wasn't even halfway through my Wawa pretzel and I'm like,
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? Like yeah, yeah, now that's fair,
Speaker 1: that's fair. We'll go crazy for him. So anyway, so
Speaker 1: we we call him out because you call him Benita.
Speaker 1: There's a common name in the South and throughout the
Speaker 1: Gulf Um, but it kind of brings up like, I'm
Speaker 1: always sort of intrigued by Arian nicknames for fish, and
Speaker 1: Floridians I think have a fair amount. Like I've heard
Speaker 1: you call sea trout paper mouths and mustard mouths. Is
Speaker 1: that accurate? Oh? Absolutely? The little speckled devils of the flats.
Speaker 1: Those are one of my favorites. Yeah, So I thought
Speaker 1: what we do? Um, Since I assumed that all of
Speaker 1: you listening to the Midwest and the North are just
Speaker 1: gonna flock to Florida over the winter, I asked Zach
Speaker 1: to tackle a weekly word segment by himself. But this
Speaker 1: one has a little twist and is guaranteed to help
Speaker 1: all you snowbirds fit right in. When you're milling around
Speaker 1: the dock at Worldwide Sportsman this February, everyone will just
Speaker 1: assume you're a local, except make Webster's Dictionary defines fish
Speaker 1: as this week's word isn't a word, it's actually a
Speaker 1: series of words that you should memorize, so the next
Speaker 1: time you're in Florida for an overpriced charter set up
Speaker 1: by the folks at Disney, you'll know what the hell
Speaker 1: the local anglers are talking about, which will make you
Speaker 1: feel like a local. Even though we could smell the
Speaker 1: New Jersey in Ohio or the pork roll and grits
Speaker 1: on you from a mile away down here in Florida.
Speaker 1: Since our state is full of largely transients running away
Speaker 1: from things across the country, our fish species have taken
Speaker 1: on a wide array of unique names that most anglers
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't recognize, and we want you to fit in
Speaker 1: with all the googins and cooks infesting our docks and piers.
Speaker 1: For instance, you might hear somebody bring up yellow bellied
Speaker 1: spider eaters. This is what rich kids wearing bone fish
Speaker 1: scale buffs on the Hell's based skiffs their dad's bought
Speaker 1: them referred to as permit. Poor kids fishing the piers
Speaker 1: like myself used to call them yellow bellied spider eaters
Speaker 1: because all they pretty much eat his crabs. And let
Speaker 1: me tell you no better way to kill the same
Speaker 1: amount of time needed to get your bachelor's degree from
Speaker 1: the community college than sitting on crabs on bottom rigs
Speaker 1: and fighting off fifteen pounds spiny pufferfish praying that one
Speaker 1: day an actual yellow belly will swim by and eat
Speaker 1: your crap. In the end, we had a lot in
Speaker 1: common as far as wasting our time goes just my
Speaker 1: crew is wearing Walmart clothes and doesn't celebrate our failures
Speaker 1: by clinking I p A s and posting about it
Speaker 1: on Instagram. Let's talk mercury missiles. In some circles, large
Speaker 1: publishers clearing house sized novelty paychecks are handed out for
Speaker 1: catching these during tournaments in the summertime. And if you
Speaker 1: flip through any saltwater fishing shows on your Saturday morning
Speaker 1: TV lineup, you were bound to see at least one
Speaker 1: guy and a half million dollar center console cranking one
Speaker 1: in with the drags set to zero and the clicker
Speaker 1: on to what. All the other guys dressed identically on
Speaker 1: the boat know that at some point in time that
Speaker 1: kingfish might be boat side at some point before the
Speaker 1: final bell rings. But for us heathens who are less
Speaker 1: romantic about the kingfish, we call the mercury missiles. Not
Speaker 1: only are they slimy and bloody, but if you happen
Speaker 1: to throw a big one on the grill and attempt
Speaker 1: to choke the oily meat down with your family and
Speaker 1: friends who thought you cared for them, you will likely
Speaker 1: be radiating like a glowstick from the Dollar store. On
Speaker 1: the account of how much of a lethal dose of
Speaker 1: mercury you just consumed? Convicts, doesn't that sound fun? During
Speaker 1: the wintertime, one of our favorite pastimes is fishing for convicts.
Speaker 1: I will say that this doesn't sound glorious at a
Speaker 1: first glance, because it normally isn't. But if you watch
Speaker 1: any old time movie featuring some less than favorable characters
Speaker 1: that have ended up in jail, the black and white
Speaker 1: stripes on their forever clothes are normally a good sign
Speaker 1: that you know that generally they are less than favorable.
Speaker 1: Convict isn't the name for one species of fish, but
Speaker 1: multiple prison clad s suited fish that prowled the river waters,
Speaker 1: including but not limited to, sheep, said black drum, and
Speaker 1: black margate. If you catch all three, you got a
Speaker 1: jail break. Is it glorious? No? But will they bend
Speaker 1: your rod? It beat you up in bridge pilings and
Speaker 1: shallow reefs all day while giving you and your probably
Speaker 1: felonious friends a nice commissary fish fry. Absolutely, and last
Speaker 1: and probably least, don't forget gummies. More than likely, if
Speaker 1: you come to Florida and do an offshore trip with
Speaker 1: any sort of bait on bottom, there is a high
Speaker 1: probability you would encounter this lazy, death rolling brown turd
Speaker 1: sorry excuse of a shark. Yeah, it's a shark, if
Speaker 1: you even want to call it that a nurse shark.
Speaker 1: More specifically, these fish have the attitude and appetite of
Speaker 1: a catfish, but with nowhere near the clouder personality. If
Speaker 1: you catch one on a guided trip or a charter,
Speaker 1: the captain will most likely pretend to make a big
Speaker 1: deal about it and tell you how awesome it is
Speaker 1: you caught a three pound, largely toothless slug shark. Especially
Speaker 1: at the captain has a twenty two ft bay boat,
Speaker 1: a pro line bay boat, my bay boat. So riddle
Speaker 1: me this, Why are more people in talking about the jailbreak.
Speaker 1: That's the first time I've ever heard of that slam
Speaker 1: like dude. That should be our b side fishing episode
Speaker 1: down the road. Forget all like the massive tarpin and
Speaker 1: ship you're catching in the surf and the fame Florida
Speaker 1: mullet run. Dude, Let's do a February jailbreak. I will
Speaker 1: tell you this, the older and more pathetic that I get,
Speaker 1: and more house broken by my weener dog, the more.
Speaker 1: I enjoy fishing for convicts and such like that. Like
Speaker 1: when I know I could take my boat out in
Speaker 1: forty degrees and not see anybody at the ramp, and
Speaker 1: I could just go and spend three dollars in fuel
Speaker 1: and mow those things down all day. It is a blast.
Speaker 1: It's mindless, it's fun. But I will tell you that
Speaker 1: black market, Oh that's a kicker, boy. I mean to
Speaker 1: get that black market hard hard one. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: good luck on that, damn man. See, like I thought
Speaker 1: for sure you would crap all over that idea of
Speaker 1: getting together for a jail break. I'm kind of shocked.
Speaker 1: I thought that would be an instant uh, an instant
Speaker 1: note from you. But you actually you seem as excited
Speaker 1: as I am to square off with and destroy my
Speaker 1: new News co anchor Hayden samic in Fish News. Fish New.
Speaker 1: That escalated quickly, So, Hayden, we talked a few shows
Speaker 1: ago about the false Albacore and the Benita. You asked
Speaker 1: about their edibility and did you see my video documentation
Speaker 1: on the instagrams I ate it. I was. I am
Speaker 1: a man of my word and I ate the false Albacore.
Speaker 1: I tagged you. I did see your post on the
Speaker 1: instagram's Joe, the instagrams, that's what we call it around here.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, man, but we you know what, we just
Speaker 1: did some sashimi, both plain and with a splash of
Speaker 1: soy sauce. Um. We had a four person panel of testers,
Speaker 1: including myself, and it was it was shockingly good. It
Speaker 1: was shockingly good. Like what I call it outstanding? No,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't you know it does. It doesn't quite stack
Speaker 1: up to your your yellow fins and your blue fins,
Speaker 1: but it was good. Um, much closer to skip jack
Speaker 1: tuna and black fin tuna. And it was fascinating because
Speaker 1: the idea of them being inedible, as we discussed, right,
Speaker 1: it runs deep for the most part in most parts
Speaker 1: of this country. Like that's like you just don't eat that. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know a single person, um firsthand at least
Speaker 1: who eats them. But I think the real lesson was
Speaker 1: simply how much fish care matters, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like we we treated this one like a yellow fin,
Speaker 1: bled it, immediately, iced it proper and ate it within
Speaker 1: two hours of the suckers swimming around. UM. And that
Speaker 1: made all the difference. You know, if you just hack
Speaker 1: it up, you know, like a fresh one straight out
Speaker 1: of the water. It's an oily, bloody mess. If you
Speaker 1: toss it in the old bait cooler with no ice,
Speaker 1: the shelf life for it not tasting like total ass
Speaker 1: is very very short. Um, and it was interesting to
Speaker 1: a handful of people, wrote in Singing the Praises of
Speaker 1: Albus on the Table though. If you did mention that
Speaker 1: the trick is indeed eating it raw or rare as
Speaker 1: soon as you cook it through, then several people were like,
Speaker 1: then it gets really tough to eat. I don't know
Speaker 1: if that that really like drawls concentrates whatever oil is left.
Speaker 1: I don't know. So it was it was it's so
Speaker 1: good that I'm gonna kill everyone. No, you know, if
Speaker 1: I'm craving sushimi and the elephant bite is super slow, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd eat that again. So I I kind of like
Speaker 1: you sort of pushed me towards that inadvertently, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate it, like I learned something new. Well, I'm happy
Speaker 1: I had a small part in expanding your palate, spanning
Speaker 1: my my horizons. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Man. On the
Speaker 1: subject of of questionable tunas, uh, did you hear about
Speaker 1: the your subway lawsuit again thrown out? Oh I sure,
Speaker 1: did you bet? I did this? Yeah? Man, yeah, this
Speaker 1: suit claiming subways tuna isn't real tuna. It's pretty much
Speaker 1: been dropped or at least stalled or something like that. Um,
Speaker 1: because I know, I know, like me, most of you
Speaker 1: have been following the case with the same figure as
Speaker 1: you did the O. J. Simpson trial. So congrats, congrats
Speaker 1: to all the Subway fans out there. Everyone was who
Speaker 1: was rooting for Subway. I could like hear the sigh
Speaker 1: of relief breathe across the country. Um, are you I
Speaker 1: don't think I've asked yet. This has been four shows
Speaker 1: and I haven't asked. Are you a Subway tuna fan?
Speaker 1: Like when you get the muncheese? Is that stop? I'll
Speaker 1: stop last time I promised, promise it's for the fans. Man,
Speaker 1: Come on, Um no, man, absolutely absolutely not. Uh. I'm
Speaker 1: a very adventurous eater. There are very few things I
Speaker 1: won't at least like you know dabbling. That said, there
Speaker 1: are three foods that I flat out refused to eat,
Speaker 1: and one of those happens to be canned tuna. Really, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't stand it, and I haven't eaten for as
Speaker 1: long as I can remember. So no, not a fan.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. I mean respect for that dude, And like
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I'm not like a huge canned
Speaker 1: tuna fan either, but I I sort of liking it
Speaker 1: to like the McDonald's burger debate, Like, if you want
Speaker 1: to really a good burger, you don't go to McDonald's,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you just want McDonald's, Like it's a different
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So like, yeah, man, sometimes I'm just
Speaker 1: craving a tunamount and I'll grab a can of Charlie
Speaker 1: out of the pantry. God, it's not that it's not
Speaker 1: that big a deal. Um. Anyway, I'm glad I know that,
Speaker 1: and say I learned something about you. You don't do
Speaker 1: can tuna, So that's good. If you ever here, I'll
Speaker 1: know not to feed that to you, Like, don't pack
Speaker 1: hayde a tuna sandwich. Um. But you know, I was thinking,
Speaker 1: they haven't ever really said what kind of tuna is
Speaker 1: in Subway tuna. They've they've said all along, they've maintained
Speaker 1: that it is in fact real tuna, but nobody ever
Speaker 1: noted a species, at least not that I recall. So
Speaker 1: I mean, dude, there's a strong chance that that's false, Abbey, right,
Speaker 1: they are highly sustainable, you know, and and if if
Speaker 1: that's what it proved it to be, I'm good with that.
Speaker 1: It is what it is. I will continue to eat it.
Speaker 1: You will not. We'll both go our separate ways, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, you know, as as long as sustainable,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't really care what you all eat.
Speaker 1: I'm not about to break my no canned tuna streak
Speaker 1: with ub boy. And uh, speaking of streaks, I am
Speaker 1: looking to break my losing streak in this week's edition
Speaker 1: of Fish News Films. And I've been treating you well,
Speaker 1: so I'm rooting for you myself. Well. Thanks as always, folks,
Speaker 1: Joe and I have each selected a story. Phil's gonna
Speaker 1: pick the one that he likes the best, i e.
Speaker 1: The one that sets him up for the best joke
Speaker 1: after the segments over, and the loser will get squid gamed.
Speaker 1: Joe Europe first best of luck. But yeah, dude, I
Speaker 1: don't think I'm gonna need luck today because I'm gonna
Speaker 1: tell you what, brother, I got a live one. I
Speaker 1: actually haven't been this pumped on a news story in
Speaker 1: a while, because this one has twists and turns that
Speaker 1: will lead to some some really good debate. UM. And
Speaker 1: I'll preface this by saying, I'm curious to hear the
Speaker 1: opinions of you listeners. When this is all said and done,
Speaker 1: please reach out. I'm very curious. Shout out to Bent
Speaker 1: fan Anthony Shelton for sending this one my way. And
Speaker 1: it comes from w j h L dot com, which
Speaker 1: is out of Tennessee. And I'm probably gonna run a
Speaker 1: hair long on this one just one year, but I
Speaker 1: think it's worth it because this is this is pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: So way back on the Memorial Day weekend, A J.
Speaker 1: Silver's and some friends set a trot line in the
Speaker 1: Nola Chucky River with the intention of catching a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of cat fish for a fish fry, which is
Speaker 1: a family tradition he has every Memorial Day weekend. UM.
Speaker 1: On the off chance you're not familiar with the trot line,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a long line with a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of baited hooks that you string across the river. You
Speaker 1: tie it off to a tree at one end and
Speaker 1: wait down the other. UM. And really it's a form
Speaker 1: of commercial fishing, but very legal in many many states,
Speaker 1: provided you follow all the rules and a very old
Speaker 1: school form of getting fish for the table. So when
Speaker 1: Silver's showed up to check his trot line, what he
Speaker 1: found was a group of kayakers with his trot line
Speaker 1: in their hands. Now, this group consisted of a few
Speaker 1: kayak trainers from the Nola Chucky Outdoor Learning Institute and
Speaker 1: their students. The leader of this group was season kayak
Speaker 1: trainer Scott Fisher. It was Fisher who cut the trot
Speaker 1: line in three places, because he says one of the
Speaker 1: kayaks had gotten tangled in the line and a hook
Speaker 1: ended up stuck in one of the paddler's life jackets.
Speaker 1: All right, so, according to Fisher, he claims the trot
Speaker 1: line was not marked properly, which they must be by law,
Speaker 1: and he says because it wasn't marked, he assumed it
Speaker 1: was abandoned. Silver says it was absolutely marked correctly, and
Speaker 1: this entire exchange was captured by Silver's on his cell phone.
Speaker 1: He of course posted that video to Facebook, and I
Speaker 1: of course watched it. Um, did you see the video?
Speaker 1: Did you watch the video with this? Um? I did
Speaker 1: not watch the video. I have heard about this story
Speaker 1: and I read the article. Although the article was kind
Speaker 1: of hard to follow because you'd expect the dude name
Speaker 1: Fisher being the trot liner and like, so my brain, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, you're probably not even on face. You're
Speaker 1: like way past the Facebook generation. But that's okay, because
Speaker 1: I'm gonna break down the video now. So um. Not
Speaker 1: only do Fisher and his fellow yakkers claim the line
Speaker 1: wasn't marked, they say it also wasn't properly weighted. Had
Speaker 1: it been, their kayaks would have glided right over it,
Speaker 1: but instead the nose of one of the yaks got
Speaker 1: pulled under it, pulled it up and exposed it, and
Speaker 1: the other yakkers following it hit it. Now. Silver's argues
Speaker 1: it was weighted with four bricks, so that's impossible. That
Speaker 1: couldn't have happened um, And he believes these guys were
Speaker 1: simply keeping an eye out for trot lines to cut
Speaker 1: them because they just hate trot lining. And he says
Speaker 1: this certainly isn't the first time this has happened, but
Speaker 1: if you watch the video, Silver's is far more aggressive.
Speaker 1: Fisher and crew are cool, calm, and collected to make
Speaker 1: it pretty clear, at least to me, that they actually
Speaker 1: have no issue with trot lines. They know it's something
Speaker 1: people deployed on the river and they're very aware of them.
Speaker 1: In fact, Fisher points out that while he cut the
Speaker 1: trot line, it's totally salvageable. He returned it to Silver's
Speaker 1: and insisted this happened not out of any sort of malice,
Speaker 1: but simply for safety reasons. And Fisher told w j
Speaker 1: h L quote, we're all out here enjoying the outdoors.
Speaker 1: It's all good. The issue is with a line stretched
Speaker 1: across the navigable waterway with exposed fish hooks that can
Speaker 1: hook a kid an adult, it doesn't matter. There's no
Speaker 1: place for it. And in the video you hear Fisher
Speaker 1: telling Silver's to just do the right thing and maybe
Speaker 1: set up in areas where there's less traffic, because I
Speaker 1: gather that the Nola Chucky is pretty popular with kayakers
Speaker 1: and rafters. And he says, hey, if you're if you're
Speaker 1: properly licensed to use a trot line and someone gets hurt,
Speaker 1: you're liable for that. And Silver says, yeah, I know that.
Speaker 1: He says he does do this responsibly and tells them
Speaker 1: he isn't changing a thing about his program. Um Now,
Speaker 1: according to the story, the relationship between paddlers and trot
Speaker 1: line Fisherman's is like the hat Fields and the McCoys,
Speaker 1: and Silver's has had his lines cut a dozen times,
Speaker 1: and he notes, which is a perfectly fair point, that
Speaker 1: a lot of time and a fair amount of money
Speaker 1: go into building and setting up a proper trot line,
Speaker 1: right like this. This isn't like it's takes some effort. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like you're just going down to the bank
Speaker 1: and like chucking bait like a try line is like
Speaker 1: a It's a whole thing. Yeah, yeah, it's it's and
Speaker 1: it's a very big deal. It's a very cultural thing
Speaker 1: in a lot of a lot of this country right now.
Speaker 1: Apparently fisher and crew and Silvers and crew ended up
Speaker 1: at the kayak takeout together, where the arguing continued until
Speaker 1: the cops had to be called and statements needed to
Speaker 1: be taken. My guests would be just just guessing here
Speaker 1: that Silver's went out of his way to find them
Speaker 1: because he knew where they'd be taken out, right, So
Speaker 1: I kind of read that as like he's the one
Speaker 1: that kept the fire stoked here you know what I mean. Um,
Speaker 1: so you know statements are taken, both parties leave, end
Speaker 1: of story, right. No, Fisher had kind of forgotten about
Speaker 1: the whole thing until just a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 1: when he received word that a grand jury would be
Speaker 1: prosecuting the case. According to fisher assistant D. A. Todd
Speaker 1: Hole originally said there wasn't even enough evidence to make
Speaker 1: a case, but then mysteriously flipped. So the same day
Speaker 1: that Fisher got this call, he went and turned himself
Speaker 1: into the law, got fingerprinted, mug shot taken, arrested, the works. Wow. Right,
Speaker 1: So here's a quote from the piece. At the time
Speaker 1: of the arrest, Fisher said they didn't even know what
Speaker 1: to charge him. According to Unicoi County A. D. A.
Speaker 1: Todd Hall, Fisher was charged with violation of the Hunter
Speaker 1: Protection Act and taking a fish caught by another. Both
Speaker 1: are classified as Class C misdemeanors. So now Fisher is
Speaker 1: due back in court on novem. Silver's faces no charges.
Speaker 1: And now there are a bunch of water safety experts
Speaker 1: from all over the place writing in and coming to
Speaker 1: Fisher's defense saying he did the right thing, like this
Speaker 1: was a safety issue. And furthermore, a trot line in
Speaker 1: this particular spot poses much worse safety hazards than a
Speaker 1: hook in a life jacket. Basically, they're saying Silver should
Speaker 1: be happy there wasn't worse injury or damage. Right. So
Speaker 1: there's obviously a lot going on here, but let's start
Speaker 1: with the act. Okay, trot lining is not legal where
Speaker 1: I lived, but let's just pretend that it was. Right.
Speaker 1: If I saw a properly tag trot line, I'd say cool.
Speaker 1: Someone said a trot line fish fry right on, man, like,
Speaker 1: I get it. I understand what that is. I understand
Speaker 1: the culture behind it. Um. If I'm floating down that
Speaker 1: river and my kid, myself or whoever I was with
Speaker 1: ended up wrapping that trot line or injured with a
Speaker 1: hooking them, I'm cutting the trot line, right, I'm just
Speaker 1: doing what I gotta do. Right, If I floated over
Speaker 1: it without incident and thought, oh man, that could hurt
Speaker 1: the next guy that floats down, I'm not cutting the
Speaker 1: trot line, which some people will say that's not nice.
Speaker 1: But much like fisher like, I respect the practice where
Speaker 1: legal and when done properly, But um, if it directly
Speaker 1: brought harm, or misery to me and mine, I'd cut
Speaker 1: it and do what I had to do. And I
Speaker 1: really don't think Fisher and Company would have touched that
Speaker 1: line had it not legitimately caused an issue for their crew.
Speaker 1: Like I believe that, yeah, I mean, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm inclined to think that it's like hikers finding tree
Speaker 1: stands or something. You know, A mo of folks, regardless
Speaker 1: of you know, their own beliefs, as far as the
Speaker 1: activity goes, won't mess with you, right unless it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a direct threat, like you said to be
Speaker 1: in mine right, right, right right, So now onto Silver's um.
Speaker 1: Even though I think he's being like kind of an
Speaker 1: asshole about this, I certainly understand his frustration too, And
Speaker 1: more than anything, I think the deeper issue he's having
Speaker 1: it isn't the cutting of this line, right, but it's
Speaker 1: it's it's probably a deep sort of sadness over a
Speaker 1: loss of tradition due to just the overwhelming amount of
Speaker 1: people that utilize resources now right, Like I bet that
Speaker 1: his daddy and grandpa and grandpa ran trot lines, you know,
Speaker 1: perhaps on this same river, and now what like you
Speaker 1: have to bow down to all these folks that want
Speaker 1: to raft and kayak and so on and so forth. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's like, that's super relatable to me. I have
Speaker 1: small mouth streams here that I loved growing up, and
Speaker 1: I won't touch them now during the summer because there
Speaker 1: are four hundred thousand tubers floating down them, kayakers running
Speaker 1: them right. Oh dude, I live right next to the
Speaker 1: Madison Man the bikini You know this pain exactly right?
Speaker 1: So would you say the bikini hatch? Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: we call it when all the tubers come down and
Speaker 1: bikinis as soon as the weather warms up a little
Speaker 1: like it? I like it. I like it. But and
Speaker 1: and I think you could say the same with the Madison.
Speaker 1: Maybe not, maybe I'm talking out of school. But around here,
Speaker 1: ten years ago, if I went fishing in the summer,
Speaker 1: maybe twelve tubers would come down in a day, you know,
Speaker 1: fifteen people, No big deal. Didn't really hurt my fishing,
Speaker 1: didn't really spook anything. But not anymore, right, And it's
Speaker 1: so bad that it makes it unfish herble in the summer,
Speaker 1: even on a weekday. But unfortunately, as painful as that is,
Speaker 1: there is nothing that can be done about that. There's
Speaker 1: nothing that I can do about that. Those tubers and
Speaker 1: Fisher and all the other kayakers on the Nola Chucky
Speaker 1: have just as much right to use that water as
Speaker 1: I do, and and Silver's does. And that can be
Speaker 1: a really hard pill to swallow, you know, like you
Speaker 1: can lose sleep lamenting how good something used to be
Speaker 1: or the way it used to be and how you
Speaker 1: know it's it's screwed up, you know, as far as
Speaker 1: you're concerned now. Um So it's kind of like I
Speaker 1: always try to say, you know, you either piss away
Speaker 1: time crying about it and pound and sand, or you adapt.
Speaker 1: I still fish those same rivers. I do it in
Speaker 1: the early spring, in the fall, right, I find new
Speaker 1: places to fish. Maybe I fish at night. And to me,
Speaker 1: as painful as it may be, it can feel like you're,
Speaker 1: you know, losing a fight or bowing down. That's the
Speaker 1: road I feel like Silver should take, especially if his
Speaker 1: trot lines have been cut in this location twelve times,
Speaker 1: because I think this will just keep on happening, and
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Keep taking people to court?
Speaker 1: So you know, if he wins this one and Fisher
Speaker 1: pays a fine or whatever, it's it's probably not going
Speaker 1: to send the message that he's hoping it will. The
Speaker 1: next guy who knows nothing about this will come down
Speaker 1: the river, and if he's gonna cut your trot line's
Speaker 1: gonna cut your trot line, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So I think getting Fisher in big trouble will not
Speaker 1: save your future trot line sets Um And ultimately it's
Speaker 1: kind of a lose lose. But I must say, I
Speaker 1: think taking this all the way to grand jury, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm I'm curious to hear what you have
Speaker 1: to say. I think it's kind of stupid. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be shocked if it got thrown out um, because Fisher
Speaker 1: has a mountain of people on his side saying this
Speaker 1: was a safety issue. He didn't actually take any of
Speaker 1: Silver's fish that I'm aware of. And I actually feel
Speaker 1: a little bad for the dude because this is just
Speaker 1: like eating up a lot of his time, Like this
Speaker 1: is like a big thing now he has to deal
Speaker 1: with um. And I feel like it's slightly vindictive, and
Speaker 1: Silver strikes me as the kind of guy that, out
Speaker 1: of spite, will just keep running a line in the
Speaker 1: same spot, almost looking for a fight instead of the catfish,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, man, I gosh,
Speaker 1: I got like a lot of thoughts about this, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try and like make them succinct here. I
Speaker 1: feel for Silvers too in a lot of ways. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that a lot of hunters
Speaker 1: and fishermen can relate to exactly how Silvers is feeling
Speaker 1: in that when you are a hunter or a fisherman,
Speaker 1: to be one of any merrit really, right, you've got
Speaker 1: to take the time to understand the resource that you're
Speaker 1: kind of playing, right, Yeah. And and because of that,
Speaker 1: I think there's this perception that we are more dedicated
Speaker 1: to the environment that we're experiencing than somebody doing something
Speaker 1: like kayaking or hiking or are spot on your spot
Speaker 1: on that's we we feel like we have more right
Speaker 1: to it, or we deserve to be here more than
Speaker 1: a weekender, you know. Yeah. And it's it's a tricky
Speaker 1: thing because like there is part of me that genuinely
Speaker 1: believes that that is the case. So like the better
Speaker 1: known I feel that way too, But you have to
Speaker 1: be practical about it too, you know. Well, then the
Speaker 1: better part of me is like, Okay, well if I
Speaker 1: love these spots and these environments. I want everyone to
Speaker 1: experience them so that they care about them as much
Speaker 1: as I do, and thus sustain this environment that I'm
Speaker 1: so passionate. Hey, dude, you just brought up one of
Speaker 1: the biggest what I would call modern attitudes. You know,
Speaker 1: like we hear so much about spot burn and not
Speaker 1: talking about where you are. That's a very modern way
Speaker 1: of looking at things right now. I think it's debatable
Speaker 1: whether or not it works. I think it's been proven
Speaker 1: to work in some instances, not in others. But the
Speaker 1: whole idea of if more people know, they will care.
Speaker 1: The question is the guy who's got you know, family
Speaker 1: has been generations trot lining on a river. He's probably
Speaker 1: gonna care more than the dude that that rolls out
Speaker 1: of Nashville, you know once a season or twice a season,
Speaker 1: hooks up with the raft company, gets sprayed with white water,
Speaker 1: and goes home. That's just the reality of it. But
Speaker 1: you're not wrong. I don't think there's a there's it's
Speaker 1: been proven wrong or right yet, but what you're absolutely right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well sure, I mean, and that's just like kind of
Speaker 1: like one thought about it. You know, although as soon
Speaker 1: as I said it, I couldn't help but think about
Speaker 1: the Salmon River and think about all the good that
Speaker 1: everybody you know, getting turned onto that has done for
Speaker 1: the fishery. But I'm saying yes. But but on the counterpoint, though,
Speaker 1: I think that Silver's is totally messing up the long
Speaker 1: game here. Yeah, you know, I don't think that this
Speaker 1: kind of attention is going to do any good for
Speaker 1: him in in in his fishery, and I would pose
Speaker 1: it that I don't think it's gonna do good for
Speaker 1: like traditional forms of fishing like this in the future.
Speaker 1: Maybe not like this specific instance, but if you know,
Speaker 1: if ten dudes did the same thing that Silver's was doing,
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that whatever commission is overseeing that they
Speaker 1: might be revisiting the rules and regulations regarding trot lines
Speaker 1: in the future and in such a way that Silver's
Speaker 1: might not like the outcome. What dude, you dude, you
Speaker 1: are just like solid on point today because that's you're
Speaker 1: absolutely right too. You're you're gonna blow up this case right,
Speaker 1: it's in the news, we're talking about it here on Ben.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to assume that every year there's
Speaker 1: probably a lot more guys recreating with with rafts and
Speaker 1: kayaks for fun on these rivers and other rivers, and
Speaker 1: and the sort of old school trot lining tradition is
Speaker 1: going away. Man, you create too many issues here. There's
Speaker 1: a strong chance that the kayak crowd is gonna win
Speaker 1: if it gets to that, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and and you are absolutely right. I mean, I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what, man. You know you see a thousand float
Speaker 1: to for every drift boat that you see on the Madison.
Speaker 1: You know, I used to live on the East Codes. Man,
Speaker 1: I've seen the you know, the Delaware River tubing tours.
Speaker 1: Many we're out number, dude. And ultimately, if it comes
Speaker 1: down to signatures on a petition, I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 1: how those numbers stack up. Yeah, yeah, so dude, I
Speaker 1: mean again, it's it's kind of a lose lose. I
Speaker 1: see both sides of this, um. But but let us
Speaker 1: know right in I'm very curious to hear um your
Speaker 1: thoughts out there, meaning you listeners, speaking of our listeners. Uh, Joe,
Speaker 1: I think this next story or how I'm gonna lead
Speaker 1: into it is gonna hit home for a lot of
Speaker 1: them if they grew up anything like me. So to
Speaker 1: kick this off, I got a question for you. Okay,
Speaker 1: that was a week transition, but go ahead and ask
Speaker 1: your question, you, Joe. That's fair. That's fair, asked the question.
Speaker 1: Come on, so what do you think the reason is
Speaker 1: that every old man tackle box is full of just
Speaker 1: the same ship. It's like it's like everybody's grandfather like
Speaker 1: went surf fishing twice, hit a couple of trout openers,
Speaker 1: did some bass fishing, bought one of those old blue stringers,
Speaker 1: some snelled hooks, and then just took that weird malcolm
Speaker 1: of gear and left it in one of just one
Speaker 1: of those old school blue and tan tackle boxes to
Speaker 1: like rust into oblivion. It's never logical. It's always like
Speaker 1: power bait, pyramid sinkers and the guts of some old
Speaker 1: spin reel, you know what I mean. I dude, Like,
Speaker 1: as you're saying this, the stal I'm flooded with nostalgia
Speaker 1: because this was every tackle box my grandfather ever had,
Speaker 1: and my dad it's like they know with like the
Speaker 1: compartmental shelf, you know, the plan. Oh, and they'd be
Speaker 1: like two s I'm in controlling plugs. Then I'm like,
Speaker 1: why why did you ever need those, and then the
Speaker 1: snelled hooks, and then like a rubber frog that was
Speaker 1: mostly rotted out. I know exactly what you're saying, and
Speaker 1: that is incredibly accurate. I don't know now why it
Speaker 1: was like that. I don't know, because they just fished
Speaker 1: occasionally maybe and like didn't feel they needed four billion
Speaker 1: things like I do. They were probably smarter for it. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Well.
Speaker 1: I feel like every time I came across one of
Speaker 1: those as a kid, I thought the same thing, which
Speaker 1: is how old is this gear? Because it feels ancient? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, and and it does. Although there's a lot
Speaker 1: of things in those boxes we've covered here, like the
Speaker 1: jitterbug as an example. That's a staple of the Grandpa box,
Speaker 1: still a great lure. We also a long time ago
Speaker 1: talked about the the smell, the pungent aroma that would
Speaker 1: come out of a tackle box if it's sad, too
Speaker 1: long in the sun and had wet stuff in it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I I know what you're saying. And it's
Speaker 1: funny because you still see those old plane o tackle
Speaker 1: boxes for sale at garage sales and check on Facebook.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who uses one anymore. I don't
Speaker 1: know a single person that uses a hard tackle box anymore.
Speaker 1: It's still functional, you know all that the gear lubin
Speaker 1: power bait. Anyhow, no matter how old your granddaddy's tackle
Speaker 1: collection is, it pales in comparison to what may well
Speaker 1: be the most ancient modern fishing tackle to ever have
Speaker 1: been discovered. M I'm sure you've seen my story, right
Speaker 1: I I yep, I know, I know where you're going.
Speaker 1: I dig it. So recently a group of researchers working
Speaker 1: at a site called and I'm sure I'm going to
Speaker 1: mess this up the Jordan River dirsya der jersh slippy
Speaker 1: slappy Sampson nite, let's just go with the j r D.
Speaker 1: H j r D man, that's jr D. Heard it here? First,
Speaker 1: a group of researchers, you know me, A group of
Speaker 1: researchers excavating the j r D, which is essentially a
Speaker 1: well preserved EPI Paleolithic version of Steve's fish shack. Uh.
Speaker 1: They found fishing tackle that, after carbon dating, proved to
Speaker 1: be of the New Tuffian era, or about thirteen thousand
Speaker 1: years old. UM. This is super interesting for a bunch
Speaker 1: of reasons. The first of which is how well preserved
Speaker 1: it was, Like, we know that folks have been catching
Speaker 1: fish and fishing for much longer than thirteen thousand years,
Speaker 1: basically forever, right, um, But beyond uh speculation, it's tough
Speaker 1: to know exactly how these ancient fishermen were going about
Speaker 1: their craft, right, Uh. Because we know weaving has been
Speaker 1: prevalent in ancient cultures forever, it's assumed that they use
Speaker 1: nets and some version of hook and line. But being
Speaker 1: all of it was made of things like would and
Speaker 1: plant fiber, you know that stuff doesn't last ten years. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: It disintegrates for sure. Right. But because of some conditions
Speaker 1: unique to this j r D site, uh, specifically it
Speaker 1: being water logged all the time, some of these early
Speaker 1: fishing implements were really well preserved, offering us to look
Speaker 1: into ancient world of fishing that we don't often get.
Speaker 1: The other interesting facet of this story is how sophisticated.
Speaker 1: A lot of this gear is, uh, specifically of note.
Speaker 1: Archaeologists found fish hooks with points and barbs. This was
Speaker 1: before like you know, the barblous movement, you know, tactical
Speaker 1: nympson as well as groove cables, which researchers believe we're
Speaker 1: used as an ancient form of split shot. I'll bet
Speaker 1: they broke a lot more teeth, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: I bet because you know dental hygiene. Anyway, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I am genuinely worried about potential lead poisoning from the
Speaker 1: amount of split shot of crimped with my teeth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I chew on it sometimes, just like you know, for fun,
Speaker 1: just out of habit stick stick a little bb in
Speaker 1: there and it's like dipping. You ought not to do that.
Speaker 1: So even more interesting, Uh, the hooks were of various sizes,
Speaker 1: and some of them had grooves, animal fur and plant fibers.
Speaker 1: You know, it's still kind of attached or just in
Speaker 1: there um, suggesting that these ancient folks were making lures.
Speaker 1: They even found evidence of mother of pearl flashers. Were
Speaker 1: so stuck in like this modern era of what we
Speaker 1: have now, and I know this this article sort of
Speaker 1: it teas it up like that this was like the
Speaker 1: first evidence of of fly fishing. And I think you're
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna get into that a little bit here,
Speaker 1: but it's it's still pretty fascinating to me because it's
Speaker 1: so easy to lean on cut bait and live bait.
Speaker 1: They probably had a lot more of that, So it
Speaker 1: almost makes you wonder like, did they figure out in
Speaker 1: certain instances that these these lures we're actually more efficient, right,
Speaker 1: because they weren't recreationally fishing. These people all fish for food,
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, man, was that a better
Speaker 1: option for some reason? You know, the people back then
Speaker 1: they did things because they benefited them, you know, so
Speaker 1: I I found that part very fascinating. Well yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean when you can't go down to you know, Sports
Speaker 1: and his warehouse and buy a bunch of shiners, uh,
Speaker 1: I think that like having reusable lures, uh, probably cuts
Speaker 1: down on a lot of time. Uh. Maybe they were
Speaker 1: Epipaleolithic dry fly purs. I mean, granted, it's only nineteen
Speaker 1: hooks and six pebbles, so it's not like they stumbled
Speaker 1: on like an ancient pass pro But but looking through
Speaker 1: the pictures, a lot of this stuff they were doing
Speaker 1: really is super remarkable. For since a lot of these
Speaker 1: hooks were what I guess you would consider at the
Speaker 1: time being of a light gauge. Right, It's not like
Speaker 1: they were like sixteen dry fly hooks, but you get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Um, carving eyes in hooks of this
Speaker 1: size would have made for like a weak point. So
Speaker 1: the researchers speculated that in order to get around that,
Speaker 1: they instead carved like grooves and and and and knobs
Speaker 1: at the end of these hook shanks and basically schnelled
Speaker 1: their hooks. Which schnell did you just pronounced that schnelled? Was?
Speaker 1: It's just snelled. I like schnelled though it's kind of
Speaker 1: like Ramstein or Ramstein. Yeah whatever, that's how I say schnell.
Speaker 1: They sell the hooks and archaeologists also noted that there
Speaker 1: was evidence of braided fishing line cured with adhesive, which
Speaker 1: is yeah, just kind of cool. Yeah. An interesting point
Speaker 1: too about the hook eyes. Um, if you if you
Speaker 1: look at a lot of things like Sabeki rigs now,
Speaker 1: like even some of the rigs and things they have
Speaker 1: over in Japan, if you know how to schnell a
Speaker 1: hook properly, you actually don't ever need the line to
Speaker 1: go through the eye, you know what I mean. That's
Speaker 1: a very strong connection. Um, so that that totally makes sense. Yeah. Anyhow,
Speaker 1: at the end of the paper, the researchers kind of
Speaker 1: suggest that phishing tackle hasn't changed much at all, saying
Speaker 1: that except for the use of metal and plastic, modern
Speaker 1: fishing has not invented anything new since the Natufian era,
Speaker 1: which seems a little reductive. Yeah, I mean like Berkeley
Speaker 1: gulp alone, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, motorized boats, trolling.
Speaker 1: You know that we could probably go on there if
Speaker 1: we wanted to do a running list. On one hand,
Speaker 1: until they dig up an ancient plug with some Antler
Speaker 1: treble hooks, I'm going to chalk that up to hyperbole.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, you have to give them credit
Speaker 1: for arguably inventing the braided line, predecessor to power pro
Speaker 1: You're right, um. But another funny point about that too
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people forget if you
Speaker 1: go back to the late eighteen hundreds, early nine hundreds,
Speaker 1: even like through the nineteen fifties, if you needed really
Speaker 1: strong ship, like like like Hemingway out there fighting Marlon
Speaker 1: and giant tune and stuff, you use dacron, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's just what they used. And then that kind of
Speaker 1: gave way to your your monofilaments, and then we sort
Speaker 1: of came back to braid, which is better than Dacron,
Speaker 1: but Dacron is still stronger than Mono. All we use
Speaker 1: Dacron four now is to back your fly reel. Not
Speaker 1: many people put that on a reel anymore all the time.
Speaker 1: Do you I hate when I'm backing for that reason? Well,
Speaker 1: you gotta be more careful. But um, they figured out
Speaker 1: all those thousands of years ago, Um, that that braided
Speaker 1: line worked well, and like it's sort of like we
Speaker 1: we knew that, and then we decided, oh, this is
Speaker 1: better mono, and then it's like, actually, no it's not,
Speaker 1: and we're back to that. So they were right all along,
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying. It's interesting how things go like that. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm honestly surprised they didn't find any of those Uncle
Speaker 1: Josh's pork frogs or like forever. Yeah. I got some
Speaker 1: jars of MIC's eggs from my childhood. That's like it's
Speaker 1: like a crystal in there, like you'd see it in
Speaker 1: a gem shop. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyhow, Uh, not exactly as controversial and as juicy
Speaker 1: as your story. But you know, I figured ancient fishing
Speaker 1: tackle would play well with our audience and hopefully Phil
Speaker 1: so we will see. I think I think it plays perfectly.
Speaker 1: And I'm a vintage tackle freak. Everybody knows that. Um.
Speaker 1: You know I I seriously contemplated grabbing this story myself. UM,
Speaker 1: and it's very it's very fitting. I'll tell you why,
Speaker 1: because we'll go to Phil um see what what floated
Speaker 1: his boat? Uh? This week? I'm wishing you luck there,
Speaker 1: but but I might have you. I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't want to call my hut, But as soon as
Speaker 1: we're done hearing from Phil, we're actually gonna do a
Speaker 1: sale band with our guest co host this week, Zach Miller,
Speaker 1: who is a vintage tackle freak like me and a
Speaker 1: flea market junkie like me. And I promise you this
Speaker 1: is gonna be a good one. Hayden, I'm offended that
Speaker 1: you would suggest that I would betray the purity of
Speaker 1: this Fish News competition by selecting winners based on what
Speaker 1: would set me up for the easiest or best joke.
Speaker 1: Did I tell you that that's what I do? Yes?
Speaker 1: I did, But I told you that in confidence, and frankly,
Speaker 1: only to make you feel better for losing so many times,
Speaker 1: sort of like how Miles would always come in here
Speaker 1: with the news bangers week after week, and I just
Speaker 1: couldn't keep giving it to him, so you know, i'd
Speaker 1: have to throw Joe a bone every once in a while.
Speaker 1: So here's the deal, Hayden. You're the winner this week,
Speaker 1: but now you've got to spend the rest of your
Speaker 1: life wondering if I liked your ancient tackle story and
Speaker 1: I thought you deserved this win, or if I'm just
Speaker 1: taking pity on you. I'll never tell. Why did you
Speaker 1: put the hand to pay? You don't know what I'm getting. Man,
Speaker 1: You didn't have to be so hurtful with me, so angry.
Speaker 1: So with Zach here we have to do a sale
Speaker 1: bin because you are as much a connoisseur of junk
Speaker 1: as I am. Like you are a huge proponent of
Speaker 1: this segment when we started it, and I'm always so
Speaker 1: jealous because you frequently send me pictures of the ship
Speaker 1: you find at flea markets in Florida, and if it's
Speaker 1: fish or fishing related stuff that you like, there seems
Speaker 1: to be way more of it where you are. I
Speaker 1: would agree to a degree about that, at least because
Speaker 1: I am a you know, as much as I prowl
Speaker 1: flea markets and marketplaces I do get a lot of
Speaker 1: big scores and hits down here. I feel like there's
Speaker 1: more volume up there, but people just don't know what
Speaker 1: the hell they have down here, so it kind of
Speaker 1: makes it different, right, And but you also have too,
Speaker 1: it's just a lot more junk. I guess they call
Speaker 1: them junk stores, Like I'm not. That's not an antique store.
Speaker 1: It's not all fan See, it's like literally someone just
Speaker 1: took their garage and bought a storefront in a in
Speaker 1: a shopping center and threw all their crap in there.
Speaker 1: And then you also, there's like a pawn shop on
Speaker 1: every block there too, which we don't have up here.
Speaker 1: There's not a ton of pawn shops. Oh yeah, the
Speaker 1: pawn shop is one of like it's part of the
Speaker 1: charm of South Florida. You know, you can't go somewhere
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, do you need money for whatever legal
Speaker 1: substance you know you're gonna partake in tonight on the
Speaker 1: bridge or at the bar or whatever, and we will
Speaker 1: give you ten dollars for that outboard engine right now. Dude.
Speaker 1: The coolest old school finn or spinning reel I ever bought,
Speaker 1: was it a pawn shop in Florida. Go figure, Um,
Speaker 1: I also know see you love to haggle like I
Speaker 1: feel like you enjoy a good flea market dickering session.
Speaker 1: Yeah that and uh, you know, trying to argue with
Speaker 1: Carneys at the fair every year when it comes that
Speaker 1: it's essentially the same thing, so it I don't I
Speaker 1: don't think it's two different things. You know so well
Speaker 1: this but this is why we have to do a
Speaker 1: sale bing. So this week's sale ban item was sent
Speaker 1: in by my bud, Matt ferrell Um, and it was
Speaker 1: post did on the private Facebook group Fisherman's Garage Sale
Speaker 1: and up for grabs is a Mahi mount, which to
Speaker 1: my eye, yeah, to my eye right, it does not
Speaker 1: appear to be a skin mount. It looks like a
Speaker 1: fiberglass replica. Right now, both you and I have skin
Speaker 1: in the skin mount game. For a time, I was
Speaker 1: all about buying old skin mounted fish. I was like
Speaker 1: on this quest and then I ran out of space
Speaker 1: to hang them in my garage and I stopped buying them. Um,
Speaker 1: but it was all about the right price, right, And
Speaker 1: this kind of speaks to what you were saying earlier.
Speaker 1: People up here tend to think that their mounts are
Speaker 1: worth stupid money. It's either like stupid lee priced or
Speaker 1: the guys like give me twenty bucks. Right, So, like
Speaker 1: you're you're out junking more than me these days. What
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on the current used fish mount market?
Speaker 1: What are you seeing out there? You know, being on
Speaker 1: the streets out here and really getting a feel for
Speaker 1: what's going on in the skin Mountain, fiberglass mount community.
Speaker 1: At the junk stores, it's pretty much a hodgepodge of
Speaker 1: what you described. People either think it's worth more than
Speaker 1: you know, their grandpa's packer that's been garage kept for
Speaker 1: eighty five years, or it's you know, you're gonna get
Speaker 1: a two dollar jackalope, you know, like nobody, nobody really
Speaker 1: there's like I don't know if there's like a blue
Speaker 1: book for taxidermy. Is there something like that yet? I
Speaker 1: really wouldn't know. I stopped with the blue books at
Speaker 1: the Beckett Baseball card book. I know you did. Anyway,
Speaker 1: let's we're getting off here. So so the owner of
Speaker 1: this mahi, which i'd say is like fish squality, it's
Speaker 1: good fish. He's asking fifteen hundred dollars, right, And here's
Speaker 1: what the post says, beautiful creation. This is not just
Speaker 1: a mount. It's the nicest mahi mount you ever did see.
Speaker 1: And then he goes on, no, I did not smoke
Speaker 1: drugs before making the price that that is. That is
Speaker 1: what it is worth to me, because it is perfect
Speaker 1: and it is mine. And see that's a problem right there.
Speaker 1: For like, that's a problem. That's the problem with a
Speaker 1: lot of things. A little bit. I mean, at least
Speaker 1: he kind of try to get out in front of
Speaker 1: the drug thing. Um before you know, people started coming
Speaker 1: down on him in the garage sale here. But like,
Speaker 1: if I had to describe this, ma hey mount, it's
Speaker 1: not a skin mount. It doesn't look like a skin
Speaker 1: mount to me. But I if I had one word
Speaker 1: to describe this mount, I would say bitching, because the
Speaker 1: only thing this thing is missing is the flame job.
Speaker 1: This is a beautiful rendition of what a mokey might
Speaker 1: look like in your dreams. But not when he gets
Speaker 1: hit with the gaff in the back of the charter boat.
Speaker 1: They turned gray real quick, don't they anyway? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: all right, so the seller continues, I'm moving and don't
Speaker 1: have room for it. Rather than sit in my garage,
Speaker 1: I would like to practice catch and release and allow
Speaker 1: someone else to enjoy the fish, which is, yeah, I
Speaker 1: am not shipping this thing, and you must send me
Speaker 1: a picture of the fish once a year period. Next
Speaker 1: sentence for science. Okay, that's where this makes a turn
Speaker 1: and gets a little uh, you know, a little summer
Speaker 1: of Sammy and like you look at this thing and
Speaker 1: you're like, okay, practice catching release, Like, well, Steve, I
Speaker 1: got bad news. It's all right, Like there's no more
Speaker 1: releasing it. Yeah, we already missed, even if it's a replica.
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. The id irony is there.
Speaker 1: So so here's a few top level thoughts. Right, I
Speaker 1: think he overpaid for this, MOHI, because I guarantee he's
Speaker 1: just trying to get back exactly what he spent. And
Speaker 1: guess what, right, do you know how the value of
Speaker 1: your new boat or brand new car drops like by
Speaker 1: half the second year, by it. It's the same with mounts,
Speaker 1: Like I got a tarpen here, I got a tarpen here.
Speaker 1: You've seen it. That's that's worth like or was worth
Speaker 1: two grand brand new, And if I was looking to
Speaker 1: dump it right now, I'd be happy with the first
Speaker 1: like eight d bucks somebody wagged in my face, right,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? The only thing that I
Speaker 1: can think about, which is what's warning this price? Because
Speaker 1: he says it is worth to him, right. I know
Speaker 1: there's a lot of inflation these days, and to be fair,
Speaker 1: it's a very bright mahi and you know, maybe you
Speaker 1: know if everything is jacked up thirty three, he's just
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, give somebody a quality amount of
Speaker 1: what it would be priced at now. And here's why
Speaker 1: he doesn't know what he's doing, right, Because my next
Speaker 1: thought is, um, I once read and I believe this
Speaker 1: that mahi mahi is the number one most mounted fish ever.
Speaker 1: And why would that be? Right? Because they're pretty easy
Speaker 1: to catch and they're super colorful and badass looking. So
Speaker 1: when you know tourists that only ever caught a blue
Speaker 1: gill would show up in Florida and stick a mahi,
Speaker 1: it was real easy for the charter captain to talk
Speaker 1: him into amount because then they got kickbacks on the
Speaker 1: taxidermy bill. And I think I've seen more mounted mahi
Speaker 1: while out junking than any other fish. To me, they
Speaker 1: are they are a dime a dozen. I've seen a
Speaker 1: lot of mahire you're that's probably a statistic without even
Speaker 1: checking that mah He's the most mounted sale. F has
Speaker 1: to be right there with a missing bill or a
Speaker 1: portion of its sale missing. I see a ton of
Speaker 1: those two. But the only thing I can say is, like,
Speaker 1: if that's what's out on the streets, I feel really
Speaker 1: sad for all these people that they have not gotten
Speaker 1: the sales pitch for a canal tuna up to this point. Right, So,
Speaker 1: if I had to guess, this guy is fawning all
Speaker 1: over this mahi and throwing out in sane prices because
Speaker 1: he also just may not be a real angler, and
Speaker 1: like this could have been the mah he he caught
Speaker 1: during that troll trip, you know what I mean, his
Speaker 1: resort put together while they were in Atlantis in the
Speaker 1: Bahamas um and the wife has always hated it, and
Speaker 1: how much he's spent on it, and now he's trying
Speaker 1: to undo those poor decisions. Too bad that the amount
Speaker 1: of my market is so saturated. But like you're basically
Speaker 1: trying to convince people your Honda accord is better than
Speaker 1: the four thousand other Honda accords for sale on Facebook.
Speaker 1: Right now, That's how I say it. What do you
Speaker 1: mean you're saying my Honda accords not as good as
Speaker 1: the other ones. All I know is if there is
Speaker 1: a Mahi market bubble and it's getting ready to pop,
Speaker 1: this guy is gonna be on the frontline of that resurgence.
Speaker 1: I got three of them too, in the attic and
Speaker 1: one of the garage. So man, I'm what are you doing?
Speaker 1: You have three grand sitting in your attic right now,
Speaker 1: easily easily easily Anyway, Matt, thank you for sending that brother.
Speaker 1: That was a really, really fun one, impertinent one for
Speaker 1: this episode. Remember, if you find some wacky fish or
Speaker 1: fishing related junk for sale on your online classified platform
Speaker 1: of choice, tackle whatever it may be, fire that link
Speaker 1: off to Bent at the meat eater dot com. So
Speaker 1: hammertime is slowly drawing to a close here, but it's
Speaker 1: been a lot of fun, at least I think. So
Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun having fun. Sure, sure,
Speaker 1: it depends who you talk to. Like I said, how
Speaker 1: am I supposed to follow up dudes who got stabbed
Speaker 1: by Pantera went to Pantera? Like, I can't do this.
Speaker 1: That was a fan. Miles didn't get stabbed at Pantera.
Speaker 1: He might have been the guy stabbing that guy could
Speaker 1: have been. I don't know. I doubt it though. Um. Anyway,
Speaker 1: So before we go, one other thing, right, since we're
Speaker 1: on this Florida theme, Um, I know that another thing
Speaker 1: you were really into is waiting for sea trout. Right,
Speaker 1: that's another one of your your many jams. Here's sharkein
Speaker 1: bay boats and waiting sea trout. Right, Yeah, man, many
Speaker 1: hats here, But waiting sea trout when it's cold, I
Speaker 1: would like to say, if it is one of my jams,
Speaker 1: I'd consider it more of a slow jam, because you've
Speaker 1: gotta really slowly creep those baits on the bottom right right.
Speaker 1: But speaking of those baits, I also know you're too
Speaker 1: cool to go buy a bucket of live shrimp to
Speaker 1: do it. You are anti live scrimps, that's correct, yes, sir,
Speaker 1: So just in case you are as anti live shrimp
Speaker 1: as Zack here, I've got a lower suggestion for you
Speaker 1: in this week's end of the line segment that's not
Speaker 1: only a classic but keeps up that true Florida theme. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not loud enough. There are very few inshore species
Speaker 1: in Florida that won't eat a live shrimp or a
Speaker 1: fresh dead shrimp for that matter. A Florida tackle up
Speaker 1: that can't maintain a constant supply of shrimp could be
Speaker 1: in trouble. But in the eighties, well known captain Mark
Speaker 1: Nichols had a thought, between the demand for shrimp and
Speaker 1: environmental concerns that were threatening shrimp habitat, what would everyone
Speaker 1: do if the day came when suddenly nobody could get
Speaker 1: live shrimp. At the time, there were some shrimp imitators
Speaker 1: on the market, but nobody spoke particularly highly of them.
Speaker 1: Somewhere simply heavy rubber shrimp tails you'd stick on a
Speaker 1: jighead and they looked okay, but they swam all wrong.
Speaker 1: Shrimp have a very specific movement in the water. Their
Speaker 1: legs undulate and they tend to just lazily ride the current,
Speaker 1: sort of floating around at different levels of the water column.
Speaker 1: Nichols realized that creating a lure that looked like a
Speaker 1: shrimp was easy, but having it behave naturally in the
Speaker 1: water to truly trick and trigger all the shrimp eaters
Speaker 1: from Florida to Texas was not, But he was determined
Speaker 1: to make it happen. Nichols never intended to sell his
Speaker 1: shrimp creation, which took years to perfect, but when he
Speaker 1: realized just how effective it was, d O A lures
Speaker 1: and the famed d O A shrimp were born in
Speaker 1: the early nine nineties. The d O A shrimp has
Speaker 1: since become a staple on the coast from the outer
Speaker 1: banks all the way around to Padre Island, Texas. And
Speaker 1: the funny thing about it is it doesn't look like
Speaker 1: it would catch anything. Compared to other modern soft plastics,
Speaker 1: the d O A shrimp looks too stiff. It's anatomically
Speaker 1: correct to a degree, but looks more like a basic
Speaker 1: cad drawling of a shrimp than the real thing. They
Speaker 1: come pre rigged and waited, and while the lure may
Speaker 1: look simple, the engineering is not. Now there are several
Speaker 1: variations of the d O A shrimp on the market
Speaker 1: these days, but it's the O G model that's the
Speaker 1: most well known and trusted. It's perfectly precisely waited in
Speaker 1: balance to fall slowly and always stay horizontal like a
Speaker 1: live shrimp. While the tail may seem too stiff and
Speaker 1: the legs too stubby, Nichols designed them to constantly vibrate
Speaker 1: and flutter, further enhancing the ruse. The lords shine the
Speaker 1: brightest entitle current, and whether you fish them under a
Speaker 1: popping cork or solo, most of the time what you
Speaker 1: want to do is nothing, keep contact, take in line,
Speaker 1: and just let the shrimp hover out there in the zone.
Speaker 1: As Nichols says in many of his tutorial videos, you've
Speaker 1: just got to let the shrimp do its thing. You
Speaker 1: can't work it to death. My introduction to the d
Speaker 1: o a shrimp came on the first trip I ever
Speaker 1: took to fish the Florida back country when I started
Speaker 1: my career in the fishing industry, and we were targeting
Speaker 1: snook and redfish near Fort Myers, And it was so
Speaker 1: long ago that I hate to admit I don't even
Speaker 1: remember the guide's name. But we rolled up to a
Speaker 1: channel between two mangrove islands and he handed me a
Speaker 1: rod rigged with a float that had a very tattered
Speaker 1: brown d o a shrimp hanging below it. Just cast
Speaker 1: up current close to the mangroves. Let it drift, he
Speaker 1: told me. So I did, and it didn't drift more
Speaker 1: than twenty ft before getting smoked by the first snook
Speaker 1: I ever caught. I ended up catching a pile more
Speaker 1: that day and came to find out later that while
Speaker 1: the leader had been changed a whole bunch, the particular
Speaker 1: shrimp I was using had been in rotation for two
Speaker 1: full seasons. Not only did Nichols want a lord that
Speaker 1: caught fish, not fisherman, but he made them affordable and durable,
Speaker 1: which is why I know so many Florida anglers that
Speaker 1: will not throw any artificial shrimp besides the d o A.
Speaker 1: And it's not like they don't have options, right, I mean, nowadays,
Speaker 1: companies like Live Target and Savage Gear make shrimp so
Speaker 1: realistic that if you mix them in a pile of
Speaker 1: fresh shrimp at the seafood market, nobody would be able
Speaker 1: to spot the fake. But I don't know a single
Speaker 1: seasoned die hard, trout, snook and redfish guy in Florida
Speaker 1: or elsewhere along the Gulf Coast that would take over
Speaker 1: a d o A. By the way, Northern listeners, while
Speaker 1: we're not so shrimp relying up here, as the Florida
Speaker 1: boys are, drift a d o A shrimp along a
Speaker 1: jetty during the fall striper run or feed one back
Speaker 1: along those sod banks were bass and weak fish. Lurk
Speaker 1: and tell me what happens that is it for this week.
Speaker 1: If you're currently planning a Florida vacation, remember if the
Speaker 1: catch of the day at Mickey's House of Crab is
Speaker 1: Mercury missile, order that ship. The maid is only pushing
Speaker 1: you to have that Mahi Mountains. Who can buy another
Speaker 1: pair of coasters with the kickbacks? And if you're looking
Speaker 1: to score the coveted jailbreak Slam, this winner called Captain
Speaker 1: Zach Hammer Miller of throw Down Fishing Charters and take
Speaker 1: a ride on the Mickey Craft Live Shrimp not included. Wow,
Speaker 1: what a ringing endorsement. I'm just too cheap to even
Speaker 1: shell out the bait here. But you know, at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I guess this was kind of fun.
Speaker 1: I enjoyed our time together. Uh you know, it's been
Speaker 1: a long time coming. And I appreciate all the shout
Speaker 1: outs for the three people who obviously a brain injuries
Speaker 1: who requested me to co host with Joe one day, Like,
Speaker 1: I hope you guys are the same people who are
Speaker 1: gonna spend money with me this wintertime doing uh looking
Speaker 1: for convicts in the jailhouse Slam Jailbreak, Well, you have
Speaker 1: to pick up the phone and take the call if
Speaker 1: they call, and and and let them on the boat
Speaker 1: if if they do. Anyway, I appreciate you being here
Speaker 1: this week, my brother. I hope all the fans out
Speaker 1: there that called for me to drop the hammer got
Speaker 1: their fixed until next week. Keep those sailbing items, bar nominations,
Speaker 1: awkward photos, voice memos, and all that's good stuff coming
Speaker 1: to Bent at the Meat Eater dot com. And remember
Speaker 1: to use that beast up hashtag when you post that
Speaker 1: photo of your first gum was dast vestas by