Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heeart Radio podcast. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's High Pony Day, National High Pony Day here on
Speaker 1: wind Down here mirror.
Speaker 2: I know people can't see. I get in my DMS
Speaker 2: all the time. Can I please see the videos? But
Speaker 2: I know, and we would love to do. It's just
Speaker 2: we just do these the clips for socials and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 2: iddios don't really work like YouTube. It's it's just like
Speaker 2: one more extra layer and it doesn't really like I
Speaker 2: would love to.
Speaker 1: I think what they're really wanting, yeah, is my reactions.
Speaker 1: You've got good ones. Well, I've tried to lock it
Speaker 1: up a little bit lately because people are like dying.
Speaker 1: I want to see what your face was like, especially
Speaker 1: with the mic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the mic three part series, which I think went well.
Speaker 1: Mature and well. I have not re listened. I sometimes
Speaker 1: will listen, uh huh to episodes we've done, but I
Speaker 1: didn't do because I just felt like I lived it
Speaker 1: and I'm done living it. Sure, Yeah, but that was great.
Speaker 1: It's like the next chapter. No pun noun and don't
Speaker 1: forget to get your New York best selling copy, oh
Speaker 1: Man Cramer or you're about to have a baby. I
Speaker 1: mean it could could it happen while we're doing this podcast? No,
Speaker 1: and well let's hope not.
Speaker 2: You know, I think I'm in a really weird space
Speaker 2: and being just like super honest, be honest, because I mean,
Speaker 2: we'll see what date is this? You know, we record
Speaker 2: obviously a couple of days before this, errors and everything.
Speaker 1: But this last week has just been.
Speaker 2: Interesting, and I know I didn't post about it, and
Speaker 2: I because it's like it's one of those things where
Speaker 2: I'm in the I'm in the middle space where I
Speaker 2: almost feel like I want to protect up.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, this is good. Yep, We're in a very
Speaker 1: similar season. Okay, it feels like almost tell me if
Speaker 1: this feels accurate. Huh. To me, it's feeling like when
Speaker 1: I'm posting while I'm doing something, it's cheapening my experience.
Speaker 1: And so I've been a little bit more passionate. Like
Speaker 1: the whole DC trip I did, I didn't post at all.
Speaker 1: I just posted a couple days after and was like, psa,
Speaker 1: go date your husband. And then I started to make
Speaker 1: like a reel of all the pictures and then I
Speaker 1: was like what but why for what special to me? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But like also just there is some in your in
Speaker 1: I get like extra, Mama bear. I'd imagine that feels
Speaker 1: like extra to you right now. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just like a really I was thinking about it yesterday.
Speaker 1: Do you want to share this week? Well? I don't know.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing because I'm like, it's the kind
Speaker 2: of the space I'm att where it's I share so
Speaker 2: much online and then there's the part where I don't
Speaker 2: want to share as much. But then also I love sharing.
Speaker 2: So it's like I'm like, I fight with myself. Well,
Speaker 2: also they're invested in your story, sure, but I also
Speaker 2: fight with what gets picked up or what said, because
Speaker 2: I mean when we went to do the baby moon thing,
Speaker 2: it was like, oh my god, harsh. I yet it'splying
Speaker 2: a victim, you know, or or just always wants attention.
Speaker 1: Why does this girl? And it's like because they usually
Speaker 1: just check people into hospitals for no reason.
Speaker 2: Like you know, it's just I'm just like, you know, no,
Speaker 2: I just also wanted to say, hey, if you got
Speaker 2: back problem, it might be your kidney and you might have.
Speaker 1: Yeah you got ninety nine problems and the kidney could
Speaker 1: be won.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I just I'm like, I don't want to
Speaker 2: like back in the hospital or you know, like those
Speaker 2: like Gary Staines. Yes, and then I'm like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: just really want to hunker down and cocoon and just
Speaker 2: have the sweetest memories with Jolie Jason Allen before everything.
Speaker 2: And I think it's all just like very scary too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the unknowns of the delivery and the C
Speaker 2: section and we are now moving it up even again,
Speaker 2: and you know, so it's just a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: that I'm like, it's just feels kind of scary that
Speaker 2: I think this scarcity mindset and me makes me just
Speaker 2: want to like hunger and like keep it tight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's okay. I think that's good. I think that
Speaker 1: actually God designs us to be that way right before anyway.
Speaker 2: And then another thing too is I was in therapy,
Speaker 2: was it last week?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Sweet Amy? Sweet Amy.
Speaker 2: I went to talk to Amy when I got back
Speaker 2: from press week from the book.
Speaker 4: And.
Speaker 2: As we're always learning and growing, there's things that obviously
Speaker 2: we feel, and so I was telling her some things
Speaker 2: that I'm still kind of struggling with right and I
Speaker 2: feel really good with it now after I discussed it
Speaker 2: with her, but it was basically, it's hard for me
Speaker 2: when people in my not I'm not even circle, it's
Speaker 2: not circle at all. It's the people outside the circle
Speaker 2: that no matter what you do or say, they're going
Speaker 2: to have their opinion of you no matter what, Like
Speaker 2: their minds are already made up, right, And so an
Speaker 2: instant or instance instance, an instance came up where someone
Speaker 2: associated but not in the circle, I just think, no
Speaker 2: matter what I do, this person has already made their
Speaker 2: mind up about me. And for me, it's frustrating because
Speaker 2: I'm like a part of me wants to be like, well,
Speaker 2: that's not who I am. You're hearing and you're you're
Speaker 2: listening to people from even two years ago. Was I'm
Speaker 2: a totally different person from two years ago?
Speaker 1: How far removed? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, why do I feel like I have
Speaker 2: to defend myself that I'm this new person? Why do
Speaker 2: I feel like I have to be like, well, I've
Speaker 2: done X, Y and Z, and you know that person
Speaker 2: kind of knew the old me or the old me
Speaker 2: and my or my thirties or whatever. And it's but
Speaker 2: it was hard for me when someone you know is
Speaker 2: allowing what that person says I'm like, you, you haven't
Speaker 2: even given me a chance to show you a different
Speaker 2: person of me, and so I'm like I had to somehow.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that anyone that bothers anyone else,
Speaker 2: but like for me, I was like, why do I
Speaker 2: still feel It's not that I want that one person
Speaker 2: to know that I've changed because this point I did
Speaker 2: for a while, because I remember when I even got divorced.
Speaker 1: I'm like, why does he hate me?
Speaker 2: Like I didn't do all of the pain, you know,
Speaker 2: like he also so I'm like I could hate him,
Speaker 2: Like why you don't get to hate me or like
Speaker 2: just one sided, you know, like it just felt so
Speaker 2: I remember having a certain situation with this somebody else.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you also did X right, I've owned up
Speaker 2: to my part and you've never owned up to yours
Speaker 2: and you still walk around and talk bad about me,
Speaker 2: and that bothers me because I'm like, but because you
Speaker 2: haven't owned your piece too, like I've owned mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I struggle when people can't own period. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: it's okay, make mistakes, change be whoever. I never had
Speaker 1: a problem with that. That's just being human. When there's
Speaker 1: no ownership, I struggle hard. I just need you to say, man,
Speaker 1: I can't believe I did. I don't even actually, I
Speaker 1: don't even have a cookie cutter template for how.
Speaker 2: I like the apology to look at all. The thing
Speaker 2: is I don't even need an apologize. That's saying like
Speaker 2: I just long gone wanted apology from anybody. It's just
Speaker 2: the person that still will say bad things where I'm like,
Speaker 2: but and totally you're right, I was X, Y, and
Speaker 2: Z one thousand percent, But do you want to also
Speaker 2: say what you did? Yeah? Also also contributed to my
Speaker 2: little like Craig cry, you know what I mean two
Speaker 2: years ago?
Speaker 1: Right? More than right? So like what are we doing? Like?
Speaker 2: But like I think when then when I was like
Speaker 2: really hurt about this other situation that involved the other person,
Speaker 2: I was kind of like, man, like what have I
Speaker 2: done to.
Speaker 1: Them?
Speaker 2: Like like like buddy up? And then I was telling her,
Speaker 2: I was like it was really affecting me because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I it hurt me, like it hurt my feelings, and
Speaker 2: I just you know, I want I've tried so hard
Speaker 2: to get to the other side of all the healing
Speaker 2: and the growth, and every day you know.
Speaker 1: Is you you do better.
Speaker 2: And you learn and whatever. But I was like, Amy,
Speaker 2: why is this peace still bothering me? And She's like,
Speaker 2: people will go to other people to fit their narrative.
Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: Whether it's true or not true, they have already made
Speaker 2: your mind up about you, and now they want someone
Speaker 2: else to carry along that narrative so that they can
Speaker 2: feel that they're justified in how they feel or look
Speaker 2: at you or think about you.
Speaker 1: I deal with it in my own family system, and
Speaker 1: I'm the villain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm like, no matter, because there was something
Speaker 2: that even came out to where it's like there was
Speaker 2: this and this is why I think I want to
Speaker 2: like write another book, And this is why I think
Speaker 2: I'm wanting to just go in word more is because
Speaker 2: people think I have control over interviews and editorial. What
Speaker 2: the editor writes. Ninety percent of those things get that
Speaker 2: get picked up. I don't interview for they just pick
Speaker 2: up from my stories, which this back in the day.
Speaker 2: The trolls would say I pay for them, which is insane.
Speaker 1: I would pay not to because it gives me anxiety.
Speaker 2: I don't write it because it's usually not something nice
Speaker 2: that they pick.
Speaker 1: Up yeah, so and then they create literally a whole
Speaker 1: story around it, but if you really read, it's just
Speaker 1: a bunch of filler words and like one quote from me, yeah.
Speaker 2: And if from from like an instagram or something, right,
Speaker 2: and what was then being written about im? Like, I
Speaker 2: don't control what they write. I don't, nor do I
Speaker 2: look at it. But again, and it fits someone's narrative
Speaker 2: that oh yep, she's trying to exclude or trying to
Speaker 2: not exclude, but you know, trying to manipulate something. I'm like, Okay, again,
Speaker 2: that's your narrative that you're always going to believe about me.
Speaker 2: That's not the case. And so that's where I just
Speaker 2: have started to feel just icky with social media. I'm
Speaker 2: in the space I just want to now just hunker
Speaker 2: and protect and.
Speaker 1: I think you should honor that. Thank you.
Speaker 2: But also it was after talking to Amy, there was
Speaker 2: this freeing release of going, I know what the truth is.
Speaker 2: So there's no point again in me constantly feeling like
Speaker 2: I have to defend myself. It's like the last piece.
Speaker 2: It's like I've done so much freakin' work, and that's
Speaker 2: the piece that's been the hardest for me to let
Speaker 2: go is that No. No, Like I'm a good person.
Speaker 2: I've learned, and I was even seeing it in my
Speaker 2: messaging during press week. It's like I've owned up to
Speaker 2: my toxic patterns and yes, I was manipulative and yes,
Speaker 2: and I didn't even it's the book. Isn't about the
Speaker 2: fact that I was lied to, cheated in X, Y
Speaker 2: and Z or any of those things, or I owned
Speaker 2: my Yeah, you know my piece of it ends. Looking
Speaker 2: in the mirror, I'm like, why am I doing it
Speaker 2: so hardcore? Being like I've fought and I've learned.
Speaker 1: The last piece you need isn't yours.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But then I was like, I'm really trying to push
Speaker 2: something and I just need to, Like, I know that
Speaker 2: I've changed and I've grown and I've seen things differently
Speaker 2: front row. So I'm like, why do I feel like
Speaker 2: I have to try to convince those certain people that
Speaker 2: hurt me that can't be convinced either way. I can
Speaker 2: never be convinced. You will always have their opinion and
Speaker 2: that's fine. And it was like this once we talked
Speaker 2: about it, this.
Speaker 1: Like weight that got lifted.
Speaker 2: I was like, there is nothing that I can do
Speaker 2: ever ever, and I just have to go okay, and
Speaker 2: it was this weird, crazy release, and so I was
Speaker 2: I was thinking about it, and I was wondering whether
Speaker 2: to talk about it or not on the show. But
Speaker 2: I think we care too much about and I think
Speaker 2: it's shame because I don't love that I was that person. Sure,
Speaker 2: but I also know why, given my past and everything
Speaker 2: else that I wrote about the next chapter. But you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, get your New York Times bestselling copy,
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Like it's that I get it,
Speaker 2: but you just say you don't have to do that.
Speaker 2: Ex People, It's like, can't I talk to you about
Speaker 2: it on the phone. So I'm really torn up about it.
Speaker 2: We just have to stay in a place of empowerment
Speaker 2: for ourselves. And that feels like when I even say that,
Speaker 2: I feel in my body it's like we know who
Speaker 2: we are. The people we loved the most in our
Speaker 2: inner circle know exactly who we are.
Speaker 1: They know the work we've done. We know and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's just no, You're never going to convince people otherwise.
Speaker 1: And most of the time I would say I'm no psychologist,
Speaker 1: But ninety nine percent of the time, I feel like
Speaker 1: the people that can't change the narrative in their mind.
Speaker 1: It's because they have massive wounds, huge insecurities. Something hits
Speaker 1: a chord with them that they feel like they just
Speaker 1: so they just keep continuing. It's better to just keep
Speaker 1: being in this like ugly little circle where we can
Speaker 1: keep talking about somebody over two years ago that you
Speaker 1: knew for ten minutes. Like it's exhausting and it's not
Speaker 1: up to us.
Speaker 2: No, And so that was our love and energy is
Speaker 2: better served in other circles, Yeah, like our f And
Speaker 2: I still like it's still I'd still hate it, of course, bummer.
Speaker 2: It is a bunch is a bummer because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't I would like the opportunity to be seen
Speaker 2: or given the chance. Having said that again, when you
Speaker 2: go to other people that are probably not going to
Speaker 2: have the best things to say about me, you're now
Speaker 2: just trying to fill, yeah, your own opinion. They can't
Speaker 2: hear it because they've already they've already made up their minds.
Speaker 2: So what Amy had said, she goes, this is going
Speaker 2: to be weird, and she's like, but it feels like
Speaker 2: a very like spiritual attack. So she goes pray for them,
Speaker 2: and that's actually worked when you pray for those people
Speaker 2: mm hmm to have a softer or I'm like, huh, okay,
Speaker 2: yeah and nice it was worked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like it. I've been doing a two part prayer, okay,
Speaker 1: one part protection, but what I always feel like I
Speaker 1: pray for is protection only. And I don't ever pray
Speaker 1: for the changed heart of another person. I never pray
Speaker 1: for the dismantling of a person or a narrative. I
Speaker 1: think it's because I don't feel a out of hope.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well she said it could be twenty years, it could
Speaker 1: be never, but at least it softens the Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: at least putting out love as opposed to putting out
Speaker 1: a closed door. And I'm a closed I'm a drawbridge
Speaker 1: up kind of gal. Anyways. Yeah, I just isolate, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, yep, I mean I'm supposed to do two
Speaker 1: events today. I've already take myself out of one, but
Speaker 1: I'd rather be home. But yeah, a safe place. Well
Speaker 1: that's the thing too.
Speaker 2: I think with the arrival of babes and like the
Speaker 2: scary things that could happen, I'm just kind of like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm going to just protect, yeah, and
Speaker 2: just hunger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is good. Yeah, get in draw bridge out
Speaker 1: if anyone queen is having a baby for better calmdown
Speaker 1: is on every day.
Speaker 2: Jolly is like these money days, these money days. I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I sent the new new new C section date to
Speaker 1: the girls. And what did you say? You're like something
Speaker 1: about I said, sorry, I'm late. I was scrubbing in
Speaker 1: for the oor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he said, Alan only knew that this is
Speaker 2: my baby.
Speaker 1: Not poor Alan. He's so cute. You think like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna like intersect. Does they hand the baby? I'm like, Alan,
Speaker 1: look what we've got. He's like, can I hold my child?
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you space as long as you
Speaker 1: need it. Oh man, But the minute you're ready for
Speaker 1: me to breathe your air, I am just in the
Speaker 1: parking lot. I just need prayers. We've got good prayers.
Speaker 4: Good.
Speaker 1: This is going to be the delivery. Got a lot
Speaker 1: on your plate. You're doing great. I'd like to say
Speaker 1: thank you. You're doing a great job. There's a lot
Speaker 1: to navigate. I'm four months almost five months postpartum, and
Speaker 1: the hormones and the emotions and the last bit right
Speaker 1: before you have the baby. It's a lot I look
Speaker 1: back now and I'm like, whoah, I really said that,
Speaker 1: or whoa, I really did that.
Speaker 2: I don't know if we talked about on here but
Speaker 2: to that point the other day because I just with
Speaker 2: everything going on and I'm just it's a lot. And
Speaker 2: he goes, Babe, you're gonna be You're gonna be good
Speaker 2: in just so many days. And I'm like, no one
Speaker 2: educates the postpartum part because I'm like, yeah, I'll be happy,
Speaker 2: babies out and healthy and mom self like I want
Speaker 2: everyone healthy.
Speaker 1: But then come the.
Speaker 2: The roller coaster the postpartum. He's like, what what's that?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 1: Maybe we have allan interest. Grab a beer together, just
Speaker 1: talk about a couple of things.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone talks about that. Anyone talks about
Speaker 2: the emotions after baby. No, I don't think you understand.
Speaker 2: You will walk into the room and I remember this
Speaker 2: with both kids. I will be crying and I will
Speaker 2: have no idea why no.
Speaker 1: And you're exhausted too. I mean that doesn't help. They're sleeped.
Speaker 1: I mean they use sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation as a
Speaker 1: torture tactic for a reason. Yeah, I mean you go
Speaker 1: we go in and it's an incredible, beautiful experience and
Speaker 1: you're it's the nights and the dark circles, and it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's everything, and it's also layered and tired
Speaker 1: and hormonal. And you've got two big kids. We're navigating
Speaker 1: the middle kids space right now. At home with Leggie,
Speaker 1: Sweet Leggie, we had he went through a time where
Speaker 1: he was pee in his pants, which is not like him.
Speaker 1: It's okay. So we're just seeing everything for what it
Speaker 1: is and what you know, instead of being like, you know,
Speaker 1: come on, buddy. You know, I'm like, okay, little control
Speaker 1: over something. We're just navigating. But I've noticed my feelings
Speaker 1: towards them. They make me emotional because I'm like, you
Speaker 1: deserve You've had more of me than you're getting. So
Speaker 1: that's an adjustment. And now we have this person who
Speaker 1: we're all obsessed with. We can agree on that. Company
Speaker 1: morale seems like it's at an all time high, but
Speaker 1: the CEO is a little distracted and that's hard on
Speaker 1: them too. I can see it. Well, you have your
Speaker 1: kids at home too. I do all the time, so
Speaker 1: that's I can't even imagine that. Yeah, because I think
Speaker 1: I'll be able to, and the summer was hard because
Speaker 1: it was like hot, I couldn't I mean we had
Speaker 1: a heat advisory for four minutes, so we couldn't go
Speaker 1: run or walk orl sprain tailbone. Elder mom over here
Speaker 1: was we should get Preston and Alan on the next
Speaker 1: because we should be able to record one more. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it'd be kind of fun we can talk about. Preston
Speaker 1: is actually pretty into pretty insightful. Words are tricky. He's
Speaker 1: more insightful this time around. It's been really cool to watch.
Speaker 1: Did you do it? I think you'd do it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be fun to get the guys on just
Speaker 2: the kind of the episode before, because he I think
Speaker 2: it would be beneficial for your partnership.
Speaker 1: Uh huh, yeah, because I because the first time Preston struggled,
Speaker 1: he was like, I don't know what happened to this
Speaker 1: woman I'm in love with? Where'd she go?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: I mean it was wrong?
Speaker 2: Well yeah again, because I think they're just they think
Speaker 2: once the baby's out, everything's just you're good and everything
Speaker 2: goes back to normal. I'm like, doesn't it take a
Speaker 2: year for your hormones to go back after baby?
Speaker 1: Minimum? Some new study says seven years or something now.
Speaker 1: So I just got back to her, can't wait. I'll
Speaker 1: see you in twenty thirty when we get our shit together.
Speaker 3: Oh I love.
Speaker 1: It's a lot, and it's a beautiful a lot, but
Speaker 1: it's still a lot, and they can't understand what we
Speaker 1: go through. They just can't. Well.
Speaker 2: And bless Alan too, because I mentioned the night nurse
Speaker 2: to him and I just said, hey, I'm really thinking
Speaker 2: about a one night a week night nurse if that's
Speaker 2: you know, And he didn't. He's like, what's a night nurse?
Speaker 2: He's like, someone just takes your baby. And for me,
Speaker 2: third kid, I'm like, here, have my baby. I don't
Speaker 2: even need aground check.
Speaker 1: Do you just know what sleep will do for you too?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: And that's what I said, I'm like, And that was
Speaker 2: along the same conversation of the whole postpartum and what
Speaker 2: that could look like and how that can affect not sleeping.
Speaker 2: So I said, you know, Kristen had recommended someone and
Speaker 2: I love and trust her. Yes, I'm like, it's just
Speaker 2: it would just be one day a week. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think he's not really sure how he feels about it,
Speaker 2: But for me, I'm going to be like, I just
Speaker 2: know that that's what I will own because I will
Speaker 2: want to get up if not. But I know I
Speaker 2: need at least need like one good nights.
Speaker 1: I feel like you and I are family here, you know,
Speaker 1: so I'm like, yes, doesn't say we're so similar to
Speaker 1: in the way we're wired, like when it's time to
Speaker 1: get things done, we get things done right. Also we're
Speaker 1: older moms. This time, I did use the night dola.
Speaker 1: Actually two nights a week for a couple of weeks. Okay,
Speaker 1: just because I I had to start slow with them,
Speaker 1: you know. He's so old school with yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: but it was I shamed myself or something like, I'm
Speaker 1: I can do this, and I like moms do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and they do do it all the time,
Speaker 1: but usually grandma's there with a cast role and there's
Speaker 1: an aunt to come. Well, you shan't poo your hair
Speaker 1: something like, we don't have that, so we have to
Speaker 1: lean into the community, you know, back in the I
Speaker 1: won't take too much time on this, but like back
Speaker 1: in the back back days, the way back machine men
Speaker 1: went out and hunting, hunted and gathered, and women communitied
Speaker 1: up and they raised kids together. That's where the wet
Speaker 1: nurses came from. They would nurse each other's babies and
Speaker 1: they would be able to talk to each other and
Speaker 1: make dinner together. And like, we are literally the only
Speaker 1: country that just has a baby and then we exile
Speaker 1: ourselves into our home by ourselves. So like the idea
Speaker 1: of like community and village and love is like what
Speaker 1: we're supposed to do. And so I think it's actually
Speaker 1: a little more godly and beautiful when we allow the help.
Speaker 1: That's how the stance I've kind of had to take
Speaker 1: to make myself feel better about it. I think too,
Speaker 1: But like that the women that you're allowing into your
Speaker 1: life to take care of the baby are also beautiful,
Speaker 1: wonderful humans, like do La Katie, Like I want to
Speaker 1: bring her back just because I want to hang out
Speaker 1: with her. And she just let me cry and she
Speaker 1: helped me pump and like figure out my body and
Speaker 1: she just was like, yeah, yeah, you shouldn't host Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: and I was like thanks, you know, but like it's
Speaker 1: a beautiful that's what we're supposed to do. Yeah, community, village,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm like, are you coming over for Thanksgiving? Oh?
Speaker 1: I'm coming with mashed potatoes and I can't wait to
Speaker 1: hold the baby the entire time. But I won't do
Speaker 1: it if you don't want me to, but I'm here
Speaker 1: if you do, I'll wear him. I just want to
Speaker 1: startlegs to mine.
Speaker 2: Okay, So we're going to take a break and then
Speaker 2: we are going to talk to Zach and Bliss from
Speaker 2: Love is Blind Season four because they are in love
Speaker 2: and ready to do the thing. So take a break
Speaker 2: and get him on. We were just saying, I mean
Speaker 2: the love is blind concept. I feel like I kind
Speaker 2: of love Okay, So I got to see Preston right.
Speaker 2: I could not do this Love is blind, but I
Speaker 2: kind of love was blinded for like six weeks because
Speaker 2: I like met Preston weird, smitten, like head over heels,
Speaker 2: like not like my personality type weird. At the time,
Speaker 2: I like had a severe early allergy to mend like
Speaker 2: I was like, I can't. I don't your gender as
Speaker 2: a whole, like you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we met and then I was going to
Speaker 1: meet back up with him, like six weeks later. We
Speaker 1: talked on the phone every day till four, laughing, giggling, whatever,
Speaker 1: And then I thought, I don't even know how big
Speaker 1: he is. I don't know how tall he is, Like
Speaker 1: what if I what if I'm bigger than him? I
Speaker 1: remember him not being like a super giant guy. Sure,
Speaker 1: And so then I was like, am I gonna look
Speaker 1: like one of those like floats from the Macy's Day parade,
Speaker 1: like coming in for a kiss?
Speaker 4: Who big?
Speaker 1: You know? Like, but like that stuff does. Like I
Speaker 1: hate to say it, but I the physical attraction matters.
Speaker 1: The intellectual attraction is incredible, No.
Speaker 2: I feel because it's kind of the same with Allen
Speaker 2: and I like when he reached out to me in October,
Speaker 2: I just saw his little icon because he was private
Speaker 2: on Instagram at the time, so I just saw his
Speaker 2: little teeny icon.
Speaker 1: And it's his whole body, so you can't even really
Speaker 1: see his face anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then when I we messaged back and forth a
Speaker 2: little bit in October and then November we FaceTime for
Speaker 2: the first time, I'm like, okay, but I still feel
Speaker 2: like face fime and photos they don't give you the no, no,
Speaker 2: no no. I was obviously attracted to him. Sure, you
Speaker 2: just when you don't have the whole yeah picture as
Speaker 2: I didn't. I need to know how you smell. But
Speaker 2: I love the ext like I can't.
Speaker 1: I am, I don't I need a I need a
Speaker 1: smell like I I literally right now would go smell
Speaker 1: Preston's face. Yeah, sounds creepy, don't care like it's He's
Speaker 1: just like yummy to me. I love the intellectual piece
Speaker 1: of meeting someone building a good building a good trust
Speaker 1: in relationship and rapport.
Speaker 2: Before the meeting. That was cool because then it felt
Speaker 2: even more connected.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then when he turned around that's and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, let me have your baby. I'm done.
Speaker 1: We'll be pregnant soon. It will be done, will be done. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's weird like that. The proposal piece on love is blind.
Speaker 1: They don't get to see. They don't propose in person either,
Speaker 1: so that is always fascinating to me. Like they get
Speaker 1: down on one knee.
Speaker 2: Which is interesting though because so they're like down one
Speaker 2: knee at the frosted glass. Yeah, so that piece is
Speaker 2: very interesting. But also because he picks Zach, this is
Speaker 2: this is what's even more interesting. Zach picks Irena first,
Speaker 2: and Mary's and h right, but he sees Bliss. So
Speaker 2: I'm wondering because you know, he didn't he didn't marry
Speaker 2: He marries Bliss, but he picked Irena. They go off,
Speaker 2: Oh that's right, before they get married, they go on
Speaker 2: a trip. Yeah okay, yeah, yeah, crap, hits the fan, Yeah, Mexico,
Speaker 2: in Mexico. But I'm wondering if he's if he thought
Speaker 2: when he saw Bliss. I just want to know what
Speaker 2: made him pick Irena then over Bliss, and then how
Speaker 2: them meeting up to actually see each other, what that
Speaker 2: moment was. I remember watching a couple seasons where there
Speaker 2: was people that I thought like, I could not I'm
Speaker 2: not a reality TV fan. I mean I say that
Speaker 2: all the time, right I got I went all in
Speaker 2: I love is blind because I was so fascinated, like,
Speaker 2: can you really truly make a connection with someone you
Speaker 2: don't you can't smell their face like a creep.
Speaker 1: I don't think I could do it. I know I
Speaker 1: couldn't because it does matter to me, it does. I
Speaker 1: need that if you're really funny, you have a chance.
Speaker 2: I will say this though, no matter how handsome sexy
Speaker 2: someone is, because I've I mean, Alan to me is
Speaker 2: the most sexiest man I've ever been with. I think
Speaker 2: he's so incredibly handsome. Also to Mike part of me.
Speaker 2: He's also that to Mike.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: We were at the pumpkin patch a couple of weeks
Speaker 2: ago and I was like, I got to go to
Speaker 2: the bathroom. He's like, Mike said, it's fine, the two
Speaker 2: dads will just be here, and I said, please don't
Speaker 2: hold his hand because I know you want to. You
Speaker 2: guys are getting weird, Like Mike, I know you want
Speaker 2: to hold his hand. But yeah, Alan is like extremely handy.
Speaker 2: He's so handsome. But if he had a because you know,
Speaker 2: we've all dated some good looking dudes, of course, he's
Speaker 2: again the most handsome man I've ever dated. But remember
Speaker 2: dating you know, people that are good looking, and if
Speaker 2: they don't if one was not very respectful to other people,
Speaker 2: if a little conceited, X Y and Z, if there's
Speaker 2: also not that chemistry or a conversation, I don't care
Speaker 2: how good looking you are. So that's the piece of
Speaker 2: love of mind I could do. But I also need
Speaker 2: the other piece. Yeah, I need I need you to
Speaker 2: be funny. Yeah, and I need you to not be
Speaker 2: stinky and so I can get your humor through the
Speaker 2: frosted glass or whatever. But if you I just can't
Speaker 2: do that. Your first question would be, so, what kind
Speaker 2: of cologne do and how often do you shower?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I need like a good hygiene moment.
Speaker 2: Okay, So Zach and Bliss are here, Let's figure it
Speaker 2: out and see if they had any issues about what
Speaker 2: the scent might be. Which, let me tell you a
Speaker 2: cent when you're pregnant something it matters. I'm like, I like,
Speaker 2: I made Alan throw away his car. You have paid
Speaker 2: so many things. I haven't been able to wear perfume.
Speaker 2: I know, I stink. That's I write a car thing
Speaker 2: in the in the car, I said, Babe, I cannot
Speaker 2: ride in your car if this stays in here because
Speaker 2: I'm going to vomit.
Speaker 1: Doul Changabana light blue, the women's version, vomit. I can't
Speaker 1: do any of it. Nope, I feel bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I even there was something else I said bybe
Speaker 2: I can't with a scent smell of bacon. There was
Speaker 2: just like bulldog wash that he would wash with bulldog normally.
Speaker 1: I ithing, but every time I'm like, did he smell
Speaker 1: like you need to discarf around his neck in a
Speaker 1: little tag or hey guy, we just went off on
Speaker 1: a terrible tangent. So thank you.
Speaker 2: You actually saved us from myself because we were talking
Speaker 2: about sense and how scent is very important, and she
Speaker 2: was saying, with love is blind, She's like, you can't
Speaker 2: smell him. How do you know that they smelled it?
Speaker 2: Like what if they stink? You should have thought about that, bliss.
Speaker 3: Yeah I did. I was like, the pheromones are so important,
Speaker 3: Like you know what, it doesn't matter. A sense just
Speaker 3: kind of off and it's like you can't quite place it,
Speaker 3: but it's just that person's scent and it matters a lot.
Speaker 3: Thank goodness, he smelled.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so we just need to I want to
Speaker 2: break down a few things because obviously you guys, are
Speaker 2: you been married for a year now.
Speaker 3: Almost a year and a half and a couple of
Speaker 3: days a year and a half, Yeah, congrats, thank you.
Speaker 2: Obviously want to talk about that, but we like to
Speaker 2: talk about the past here on wind Up.
Speaker 1: Sometimes welcome to our hot tub time machine.
Speaker 2: Sometimes too much, but I the whole because I was
Speaker 2: fascinated when I remember what was his name was on
Speaker 2: the Bachelor and he picked someone else, and then I've
Speaker 2: made think that happened a couple of times. It was
Speaker 2: a while ago, like when I really really watched it,
Speaker 2: was he ended up picking someone and then he realized
Speaker 2: that he made a mistake and he went to the
Speaker 2: other girl, and so Jason Mesnik, thank you, Hannah, and
Speaker 2: so I just remember that season really sticking out to me.
Speaker 2: And obviously they've been married now forever and they're the cutest.
Speaker 2: But for you, Zach, when you picked the other girl,
Speaker 2: was there a piece of you that knew right then
Speaker 2: that you were making a mistake or was it he
Speaker 2: drinks his water?
Speaker 3: Is it water, Zach?
Speaker 1: What are you up to over there? Buddy, Zach? He's
Speaker 1: a little helper in a cup.
Speaker 4: So to answer your question, I think the phrasing is
Speaker 4: really important there because this is something I've talked quite
Speaker 4: a bit about, you know, at nauseum, but I.
Speaker 1: Know I had a feeling, but not on wind and
Speaker 1: we need.
Speaker 3: To know, Yeah, they should have it down then your answer, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks. Maybe I think there's a misconception that happens
Speaker 4: when you're looking at a scenario like that, Right, you
Speaker 4: make an assumption that someone's making their decision based on
Speaker 4: rational benefit, Right, that it's a that's a decision based
Speaker 4: on like Okay, we're this is the best thing for me.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go with this. But people usually don't
Speaker 4: think about fear and the way that that affects decision making.
Speaker 4: And so in that situation, it was never a situation
Speaker 4: where it was like a comparison. And I think that
Speaker 4: that is the the component. Like they were too fundamentally
Speaker 4: different people, right, And I certainly had stronger feelings for Bliss,
Speaker 4: and maybe I wasn't even fully aware of that, but
Speaker 4: because of that, I was afraid of what would happen
Speaker 4: if it didn't work, and there were a lot more
Speaker 4: well if we got engaged in it didn't work?
Speaker 2: Right, Like that was a was you and Bliss so like?
Speaker 2: So you thought that you had it a little less?
Speaker 2: What's the like you had a better math, I guess
Speaker 2: with the other girl, like.
Speaker 1: Our brains.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I said, I don't know if I would
Speaker 4: use the word better right when when I when I
Speaker 4: look at what was going on in my mind, Bliss
Speaker 4: and I had had and you can't you don't get
Speaker 4: to see all the conversations, right, But Bliss and I
Speaker 4: had talked about some pretty big obstacles that we were
Speaker 4: going to have to overcome if we got engaged. And
Speaker 4: one of those being my allergies, which is a big deal.
Speaker 4: You don't You don't really see very much of that conversation,
Speaker 4: but I was diagnosed with allergy and dustasma. And Bliss
Speaker 4: has a well we have an adorable question, well done,
Speaker 4: and a beautiful little kitten.
Speaker 1: You have a now stuffed cat. We have a cat
Speaker 1: that lives remotely at Bliss's mom's house.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The first time, the first time I came to
Speaker 4: Bliss's house, I had a huge allergy attack. So this
Speaker 4: is something we discussed in the pods. And Bliss's response
Speaker 4: is not the best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I reacted. They're like my babies, my animals, So
Speaker 3: I reacted pretty poorly to him telling me he had allergies.
Speaker 3: But I think, if I may, Babe, I think what
Speaker 3: you're trying to say is that I don't want to
Speaker 3: put words in your mouth to correct me that you
Speaker 3: there was a greater risk of invested feelings being hurt
Speaker 3: if he went with me. There was less risk to
Speaker 3: go with her because it didn't work out. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 3: maybe it wouldn't have It wouldn't have been as harmful
Speaker 3: or as impactful. I don't know. You let me know
Speaker 3: if that's like what you're thinking what you were.
Speaker 4: Doing that that's one way to describe it. I think
Speaker 4: that when when I was going through this, it's really hard.
Speaker 1: Guys, I just want to say, I cannot imagine doing
Speaker 1: what you did, so like, and you don't only just
Speaker 1: do that. It goes like it's national TV, and now
Speaker 1: that we have Netflix, it's like we can rewatch you
Speaker 1: a gazillion times and the judgment that comes with it.
Speaker 1: So like, I just hats off to both of you
Speaker 1: that you can even pod up and even participate in
Speaker 1: this project, because this is like, this is life and
Speaker 1: it's love and it's learning a person. But you don't
Speaker 1: even get to see bliss. You're you're so pretty. I
Speaker 1: mean obviously we pick bliss over everything, but you're not.
Speaker 1: You're not dealing with like real life, yeah in this,
Speaker 1: so for you to pick one over the other, like,
Speaker 1: just know we're we're in We're in team love is
Speaker 1: blind over here and we're not judging New Zac, but
Speaker 1: we do need we like a little dirt, no worry.
Speaker 3: I like to sometimes just bring it up, keep them
Speaker 3: on his toe. Yeah, I totally get it.
Speaker 2: Was it hard though, getting the because obviously when you
Speaker 2: went on that trip, you go, Okay, this is not
Speaker 2: my person, and hats off to you for not staying
Speaker 2: in something because I can imagine when you go on
Speaker 2: a show like this, people I think stay together because
Speaker 2: that's what other people want. And so you realizing that, Okay,
Speaker 2: this isn't going to work, and then you reach back
Speaker 2: out to Bliss and then hearing things that I guess
Speaker 2: she wasn't nice on the reunion which I didn't see that,
Speaker 2: or you know, sending you mean things Bliss, It's like,
Speaker 2: how do you then kind of walk that rope because
Speaker 2: obviously there's hurt feelings and they're going to project it.
Speaker 2: So then what do you do with that projection?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I just to kind of wrap back to the
Speaker 4: last question and try to sustinctly answer that question, and
Speaker 4: then I ultimately the experiment creates these connections right pretty rapidly,
Speaker 4: and you're you're put into this position where sometimes even
Speaker 4: unbeknownst to you, you will develop feelings for multiple people
Speaker 4: and you those can be different types of connections, if
Speaker 4: that makes sense, And I think it was when we
Speaker 4: when we were in the pods. Ultimately, with Bliss, I
Speaker 4: was just afraid of all the obstacles, and I was
Speaker 4: afraid that it just wouldn't work, and that was why
Speaker 4: I ended up not going with Bliss. But it was
Speaker 4: never it was never like in the Pods. It was
Speaker 4: never a situation where it was like a, well this
Speaker 4: is this is one you know looking at Uh. It
Speaker 4: wasn't a comparison. I guess that's just I think a
Speaker 4: lot of people when lot in within the question, it's
Speaker 4: usually is a comparison like, oh, why would you do
Speaker 4: this over this? And it's it's it's more complicated that.
Speaker 4: But when when I did make that decision, my body
Speaker 4: and my my subconscious was certainly telling me that I
Speaker 4: had I had made a mistake that the logical mind
Speaker 4: didn't quite perceive in the moment, and I could feel
Speaker 4: that immediately after Blisten, I ended our relationship in the
Speaker 4: Pods as far as Mexico goes, and kind of everything
Speaker 4: that had happened. I it took me kind of a
Speaker 4: while to to kind of get over what had happened,
Speaker 4: because it was it was just a lot of it
Speaker 4: is a lot to go through, right like, everything that happened.
Speaker 4: But I also don't want to I don't really want
Speaker 4: to rehash all of that.
Speaker 2: Oh, we don't need to rehash that. It's more just
Speaker 2: when it all comes back and people are being projecting
Speaker 2: their stuff, it's like, how do you kind of go, Okay,
Speaker 2: I have to boundary up and not let that into
Speaker 2: our now new relationship Bliss and Zach.
Speaker 1: You know, for me, I.
Speaker 3: Was really grateful that from filming to the time where
Speaker 3: it was actually released there was a significant amount of time.
Speaker 3: It was almost a year, so you're really able to
Speaker 3: like form our foundation and our marriage and work through
Speaker 3: any questions. And we had just like discussed everything really
Speaker 3: really deeply. And I've always kind of been the type
Speaker 3: of person that's able to put my walls up and
Speaker 3: kind of ignore the masses or opinions. And I think
Speaker 3: a lot of it has to do with how I
Speaker 3: was raised, and I was really lucky to have that
Speaker 3: kind of mindset going into all of this. It still
Speaker 3: is always like hurtful to hear people speak negatively about
Speaker 3: your relationship or you know, I got tons of messages
Speaker 3: about being second choice and all of these things, and
Speaker 3: you deserve better, and it's it. Honestly, that's just not
Speaker 3: how I perceived it. Because there was other relationships that
Speaker 3: I had in the pods too, right where you're forming
Speaker 3: these relations at the same time, it's it's not about
Speaker 3: being second choice. So he just never made me feel
Speaker 3: that way. I think that's why I was so calmly
Speaker 3: able to react when we did end things. You know,
Speaker 3: I was very like I respected him as a person,
Speaker 3: I wanted him to be happy. But I just think
Speaker 3: I think it's just so it's just you can't live
Speaker 3: your life that way, like listening to what other people say,
Speaker 3: and a lot of the times you're right, it's about
Speaker 3: projecting like people are like I was in that situation,
Speaker 3: or someone chose over me and they're angry at you
Speaker 3: or at Zach or that's the situation because they're hurt
Speaker 3: with their own feelings. And any messages that I ever
Speaker 3: did respond to around that topic, I actually said those
Speaker 3: things like I hope that you heal from your trauma
Speaker 3: or whatever happened to you.
Speaker 2: And that's awesome that we're talking about the top of
Speaker 2: our show too, where it's just people are going to
Speaker 2: project their own their own true feelings and they don't
Speaker 2: really get to chance to understand y'all's relationship or you
Speaker 2: as a person exactly.
Speaker 3: But again, really grateful for that time. I think I
Speaker 3: really love that about Love is Blind. I don't think
Speaker 3: that the Bachelor has as much time in between the
Speaker 3: filming and the actual release, and I think that's why
Speaker 3: maybe there's a lot of like failure or not not failure,
Speaker 3: people breaking up in that you know, in that what's.
Speaker 4: It called timeline window?
Speaker 3: Yeah, timeline, yes, mad mad.
Speaker 1: Math is the default term.
Speaker 2: So you okay when you guys got back together, though,
Speaker 2: I'm curious because it wasn't on technically like the show
Speaker 2: timeline or the show contract, So what made you then
Speaker 2: want to expedite the getting married proposal? And listen, I
Speaker 2: can't talk. I got engaged with in six months. So
Speaker 2: I'm the person that's like, when you know, you know,
Speaker 2: and we're all at the age where we know when
Speaker 2: we know, and so I've and that's the narrative that
Speaker 2: you know. Even my podcast producer when I told him
Speaker 2: I was engaged, he's like, oh my god, like you
Speaker 2: only know. I'm like, okay, but that's my decision. My
Speaker 2: choice is my timeline, our timeline. And it might not
Speaker 2: make sense to America that we got engaged this fast
Speaker 2: and having a baby and everything else. But it's our timeline,
Speaker 2: and it's I don't I personally don't think you have
Speaker 2: to be with someone for years in years to then
Speaker 2: that's you know, people think like, oh, you have to
Speaker 2: do this person for these many years, then you can
Speaker 2: engage and then this and it's like okay, but that
Speaker 2: might not. But then you can also break up a
Speaker 2: year later. And some people that I know have been together,
Speaker 2: you know, got engaged in three months and they've been
Speaker 2: together for twenty years. So what's your kind of stance
Speaker 2: on all that.
Speaker 3: I'll go really quick. I might contend to be a
Speaker 3: little bit more sustinct than Zach and still let's give
Speaker 3: more time. But I, for me, I'm a very spiritual
Speaker 3: person and I truly feel like from our dates in
Speaker 3: the pod, like I knew that he was my person,
Speaker 3: Like it was just kind of like this deep knowing
Speaker 3: in my bones, like I'd never experienced anything that before.
Speaker 3: I thought maybe I'd experienced that before, but when I
Speaker 3: actually did, I it was just like something I've never
Speaker 3: experienced in my life and I just knew it. And
Speaker 3: I was like, why I've been looking for it in
Speaker 3: my whole life, Like why do I need to waste
Speaker 3: time right, and it just felt right for us. It
Speaker 3: kind of felt like it always was just supposed to
Speaker 3: be us and it was just correcting the path. And
Speaker 3: so it didn't feel that weird to me to get
Speaker 3: engaged and to go proceed with the wedding and just
Speaker 3: felt like that was just how it was supposed to be.
Speaker 1: We're a couple of path correctors here on this couch
Speaker 1: as well. Sure we were not blindly dating in pods
Speaker 1: and accidentally picked the wrong person a couple time.
Speaker 3: That's fine, it happens, but.
Speaker 1: It is crazy. It is when you know you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, that is something I never experienced until I
Speaker 1: met my husband current husband. Yeah, and you don't, it doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's it is a really cool knowing to just be
Speaker 1: like I mean, Janea and I just talked about this
Speaker 1: yesterday or this week off the podcast, but I was like,
Speaker 1: I he is my person. She was like, he really
Speaker 1: is your person? And I said, I know. It's like
Speaker 1: I can't describe why he is, but he will always be.
Speaker 1: And when you know, you know, so you fly. So
Speaker 1: for people that didn't watch this, you and Irena go
Speaker 1: to Mexico. It's a disaster, is the show? Part of
Speaker 1: you flying to Seattle or do you go. I've got
Speaker 1: to get to this girl producers give me her address.
Speaker 4: So it was a it was kind of a complicated
Speaker 4: situation the way it all went down. When I guess
Speaker 4: when I got back, I was like devastated right after
Speaker 4: everything that I like, everything that I went through. It
Speaker 4: was it was a lot because I think initially when
Speaker 4: I broke up with Bliss and the Pods, I was
Speaker 4: really really messed up, like really messed up, and it
Speaker 4: took me a while to kind of get over it.
Speaker 4: And like you can kind of see, there was I
Speaker 4: remember when we get interviewed in the podse and I
Speaker 4: remember one of our producers asked me a question. He's like,
Speaker 4: you don't look like you're ready to to propose, and
Speaker 4: I was just like, you know, I'm just dealing with
Speaker 4: with the like what had happened, and I I I was,
Speaker 4: you know. And then so I kind of got myself
Speaker 4: where I was like, Okay, we're gonna move on. You know,
Speaker 4: you made a mistake. You're going to live with it,
Speaker 4: and it's what's done is done. You made your choice.
Speaker 4: So that that was really my mindset, and there wasn't
Speaker 4: like a part of me that was like, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: go back and try to to like win win Bliss over.
Speaker 4: I really was like I made my choice. It was
Speaker 4: I'm going to move forward with this. And as I
Speaker 4: you know, after I got engaged and everything that kind
Speaker 4: of happened while was in Mexico. So Bliss had given
Speaker 4: me a couple of gifts. She had given me this
Speaker 4: book Read Rising by Pierce Brown, and she also gave
Speaker 4: me this Court's Heart that I still have. I actually
Speaker 4: kept it with me when we got married, Rose Courts Heart,
Speaker 4: you know, and like while I was in Mexico and
Speaker 4: things were going terribly, I just kept looking at that
Speaker 4: heart and and it just it gave me a little
Speaker 4: bit of solace and it made me feel just a
Speaker 4: little bit better. And like every day I would sit
Speaker 4: there and I was like, dude, you you, regardless of
Speaker 4: whether it would have worked, you should have you should
Speaker 4: not have made the decision that you did and.
Speaker 1: Done the wrong, math all done the wrong.
Speaker 4: And then I would I would read the book that
Speaker 4: she had given me, and it was that the books
Speaker 4: were what really was where my attraction and spark with
Speaker 4: Bliss really started. Is we started talking about our like
Speaker 4: our passion for literature, and we really connected on that.
Speaker 4: And as I was reading the book, I was like, wow,
Speaker 4: she really gets me. Like every time I would read it,
Speaker 4: I was like this, this we connected so deeply on
Speaker 4: on things that we are our passion about and that
Speaker 4: we enjoy. So I was going through that and honestly,
Speaker 4: like my thought was just and she had kind of
Speaker 4: given me some warnings in the Pods too that I
Speaker 4: had not heeded. So part of me, part of me
Speaker 4: going into it like once we got back, was I
Speaker 4: I kinda I kind of need to apologize, like because
Speaker 4: of just the way everything went down. And also I
Speaker 4: wanted to give her a gift because she had given
Speaker 4: me multiple in the Pods, so I actually I didn't
Speaker 4: know what I was going to give her, and it's
Speaker 4: it's funny. So I was looking around and I thought
Speaker 4: about our conversation in the Pods about how you want
Speaker 4: to tell them what.
Speaker 3: You Oh, I like really want to go to the moon.
Speaker 3: As cheesy as that sounds, like, I've been if I'm
Speaker 3: like ninety years old, like one day before I die,
Speaker 3: I want to go.
Speaker 1: It's not that far off, sis.
Speaker 3: It's right, right. I feel like it'll be like reasonable
Speaker 3: at that time, of.
Speaker 1: Course it will Bliss in space. I'm here for it.
Speaker 4: Her dream was the one day walk on the Moon,
Speaker 4: and so I looked over and I have these two
Speaker 4: bookends and they're my favorite book ends, and there are
Speaker 4: two astronauts on the moon holding the books together, and
Speaker 4: so I was like, that's that's the gift, right, So
Speaker 4: I brought that with me to give to Bliss, and
Speaker 4: when we met, the plans changed. It was just the
Speaker 4: second like I could I could feel the connection the
Speaker 4: moment she walked in the door, and the chemistry was
Speaker 4: really really strong, like it was the second that she
Speaker 4: came in. My first thought was uh oh, like uh
Speaker 4: uh oh.
Speaker 1: Is that the first time you actually saw her in
Speaker 1: person too?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's very nerve wracking. In a public place,
Speaker 3: it was like, oh my gosh, it was so nerve wracking.
Speaker 4: And so I'm sitting there thinking like, okay, I could
Speaker 4: just I could feel like this this is probably my wife,
Speaker 4: Like I just there was something in that moment when
Speaker 4: we met. And I wasn't certain about it because I
Speaker 4: like to deliberate over decisions, but I knew that there
Speaker 4: was something incredibly special there and I had known in
Speaker 4: the Pods. I was so close to getting engaged to
Speaker 4: her that logically, in my mind, I'm like, Okay, you
Speaker 4: know everything that matters is there, and you know that
Speaker 4: you can feel this connection. And so it was a
Speaker 4: pretty short turnaround. It was about a week before we
Speaker 4: met to when I was like, on a knee.
Speaker 2: What's been the best and what's been something that you
Speaker 2: guys go, Okay, we gotta work on this a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. We both are very strong headed people. We both
Speaker 3: like to express our opinions, and I think we're both
Speaker 3: used to being with people that kind of just like
Speaker 3: go with the flow of whatever or just agree with
Speaker 3: whatever is, so we challenge each other in that. I
Speaker 3: think we definitely he's a very strong person. I actually like,
Speaker 3: really respect him. He's so intelligent, and I haven't really
Speaker 3: been with someone that I like I can trust their
Speaker 3: opinion on things. I'm like, oh, I didn't think.
Speaker 4: About it that way.
Speaker 3: I'm usually just used to relying on myself. So that's
Speaker 3: been a challenge and like a really beautiful thing in
Speaker 3: my opinion.
Speaker 4: So I would say I don't know if my experience
Speaker 4: has been that I have typically been attracted to maybe
Speaker 4: that's just strong, strong willed women. Yeah, I think that
Speaker 4: that's one of the things I find very attractive about Bliss.
Speaker 4: And yeah, so for me, I'm very comfortable with conflict.
Speaker 4: I think it's a natural part of relationships, and so
Speaker 4: I don't mind that I think they are. It is
Speaker 4: interesting though, we both are to some degree verbal processors,
Speaker 4: and so sometimes in conversations that can be difficult when
Speaker 4: both people want to process things verbally. Yeah, yeah, exactly so.
Speaker 4: But we've learned that. And also I think that one
Speaker 4: of the biggest things that we've learned in our conflict
Speaker 4: style is at least that I have learned, is it.
Speaker 4: I just think I have to give Bliss time. You know,
Speaker 4: if we have she will listen to me, but she
Speaker 4: won't always ignoge what I'm saying until she's had some
Speaker 4: time to reflect on it. But she almost always does.
Speaker 4: Our very first fight went exactly like that in the Pods.
Speaker 4: It was weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't show that we had an argument in
Speaker 3: the pods.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we had all we had a big conversation about
Speaker 4: whether her family was going to accept me, and she
Speaker 4: did show that part. Yeah, and then about the allergies
Speaker 4: and like the obstacles that we were going to face,
Speaker 4: and it was pretty heated. And then when we came
Speaker 4: back Bliss that on our next date, Bliss was very
Speaker 4: calm and collected, and she showed a level of maturity
Speaker 4: that was incredibly impressive in the way that she was
Speaker 4: able to articulate understanding my emotions and the way that
Speaker 4: I was feeling and how that was going to affect me.
Speaker 4: So I've learned when she gets a little riled up,
Speaker 4: to just let her be a little riled up and
Speaker 4: then you know, wait, wait a couple hours and then
Speaker 4: we can talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes that makes perfect sense. What is if
Speaker 2: you can to wrap up?
Speaker 1: What is it?
Speaker 2: What is the takeaway that you want people to have
Speaker 2: when it comes to you guys as a couple.
Speaker 3: I think for me, Zach, I wasn't. I wasn't. I
Speaker 3: guess I hadn't been in situations where I was so
Speaker 3: quick and easy to forgive people and to give grace
Speaker 3: so quick and easy. It's been a long journey for you.
Speaker 3: People will see like, oh you you're so gracious and forgiving,
Speaker 3: and that that took a lot of work for me.
Speaker 3: It wasn't in my twenties I was not on that train,
Speaker 3: on that path, and it took a lot of work.
Speaker 3: But I think our experience, like really, really truly like
Speaker 3: showed me how to deeply, truly, hundred percent forgive and
Speaker 3: give grace. And I think our story, if I want,
Speaker 3: I want people to take that from that, you know,
Speaker 3: from our stories, Like it's so important to give grace.
Speaker 3: It's so freeing to be forgiving, not only of that
Speaker 3: person but of yourself. It's a beautiful thing that I
Speaker 3: hope everyone learns to do. So for me, I would say.
Speaker 1: That he meant to.
Speaker 4: I think that there's two things that I would I
Speaker 4: would want people to take from our relationship. One is
Speaker 4: what Bliss just said. I think that's the most important
Speaker 4: thing to me. And that was the most important thing
Speaker 4: to me at all on the show. And we had
Speaker 4: such a beautiful cast that was so graceful and gave
Speaker 4: gave forgiveness where maybe it wasn't it wasn't due. But
Speaker 4: that's the beauty about grace, right, is that it's not
Speaker 4: necessarily deserved, but when we give it, the world becomes
Speaker 4: a more beautiful place. We break that cycle of violence,
Speaker 4: we break that cycle of pain, and like that's what
Speaker 4: that is the story of our love, right, is that
Speaker 4: bliss could have been I was mad.
Speaker 3: I was mad. I was able to.
Speaker 2: Yourself to go to Mars, buddy, because I'm going to
Speaker 2: be I'm a moon.
Speaker 4: It was. Yeah. So I think that that's so many people.
Speaker 4: There's people who've hurt you. There's things that have happened
Speaker 4: to you in your life, and if you hold on
Speaker 4: to those or try to punish people for the things
Speaker 4: that they've done to you, you're only making the world
Speaker 4: just a little darker, Right, even if it doesn't benefit you,
Speaker 4: it'll benefit someone else, right if you give that grace.
Speaker 4: But it's a hard it's a hard question. It's something
Speaker 4: that I really dealt with with my experience in the Pods.
Speaker 4: Back to your question about the Mexico thing, because there's
Speaker 4: there's grace, but then there's also like trying to balance
Speaker 4: truth and acknowledging the truth of what has happened. And
Speaker 4: it's not healthy to allow like someone to engage in
Speaker 4: really toxic behavior and not to acknowledge it. Right, Like,
Speaker 4: grace doesn't mean that you know, Grace doesn't mean that
Speaker 4: there's not accountability and it and for me, it was like,
Speaker 4: what's the balance though, it was really like what's the balance,
Speaker 4: how what's the minimum amount you need to say to
Speaker 4: to be honest and and and hold someone accountable without
Speaker 4: churning into you known, condemning them. Yeah, and that that's
Speaker 4: that's something that I still have still work on in
Speaker 4: my own life, and it's a it's a process of
Speaker 4: becoming better at that. The the last rant that I
Speaker 4: would say is that I think, look like there's a
Speaker 4: lot of people out there that are lonely, that are
Speaker 4: that are hoping to find their person, to find love.
Speaker 4: And I would just say it's it's going to come
Speaker 4: on its own time, and that like for us, I
Speaker 4: mean we met, I was I was really thirty thirty two,
Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, thirty Yeah, And so there's like a
Speaker 4: long time, like I was very serious about finding a wife.
Speaker 4: That's what I wanted personally, and I went through a
Speaker 4: long process of like trying trying to go through that
Speaker 4: knowing what I was looking for, but not quite finding it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't force it, I think is a big thing, right,
Speaker 3: t wait for it. It's worth the wait.
Speaker 4: You just have to take risks though, Like that's that's
Speaker 4: the biggest thing you have to put yourself out there.
Speaker 1: Love is blind. Just go for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, blisk blisk could have sure that they're sent is good.
Speaker 4: There was a real part of me when I when
Speaker 4: I proposed to blist. I mean it was a week
Speaker 4: after I got back. Yeah, And there was a real
Speaker 4: part of me when when we got on the boat.
Speaker 4: I always thinking I made it, so I may get
Speaker 4: rejected on National TV on this boat and it's going
Speaker 4: to be really awkward. I had a hunch that it
Speaker 4: wasn't going to happen, but I didn't know by no
Speaker 4: means that I know. It was a real surprise.
Speaker 2: So I'm so happy for you guys, and I love
Speaker 2: the fact that you're just allergied up with all your meds.
Speaker 2: So yeah, way we can keep the Do we have
Speaker 2: an an an by to babies too? Or is there
Speaker 2: going to be babies in the future.
Speaker 3: That's a good question. Do you have an allergy to
Speaker 3: human babies?
Speaker 1: I don't think so you guys can talk about this
Speaker 1: in the I'm like, I should have found that one.
Speaker 1: There's no EpiPen for that, Zach, So we're gonna need
Speaker 1: you to get on board, buddy. But kids and kids
Speaker 1: in the future, you.
Speaker 3: Think yeah, yeah, really close with our families and our
Speaker 3: nieces and Matthews. So one day yeah, hey, well I
Speaker 3: love it.
Speaker 2: Well, congrats, thank you for coming on the show. And uh,
Speaker 2: we're no, we're excite to follow along, so thanks for
Speaker 2: coming on. They're so cute. Oh love, love, love love.
Speaker 2: So I couldn't date a cat person, There's something else
Speaker 2: I couldn't do. That was one of the first things
Speaker 2: I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. I mean either I actually am
Speaker 1: allergic and I'm not allergic like he is, so I am.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know how to hold a cat.
Speaker 1: I grew up with cats. Well, cats don't want to be.
Speaker 2: And something bothers me when some of this, oh, it's
Speaker 2: just like a dog, I'm like, no, no, no, you're
Speaker 2: just trying to say that because you know, dogs are
Speaker 2: cooler and because it acts more like a dog, because
Speaker 2: it but cats to me, Oh, I think it's just
Speaker 2: because I love love and I want to be loved. Actually,
Speaker 2: I will say this in where the mafays I'm at now.
Speaker 2: I think I would do better with a cat because
Speaker 2: I just don't want because dogs, you know, it's just
Speaker 2: it's a lot with it, and I don't have time
Speaker 2: right Yeah, they're the last thing to get fed. It's
Speaker 2: just the truth right now, until the kids are older.
Speaker 2: Then I'll just love dogs again. Second I had a baby,
Speaker 2: dogs just became a dog, and it's I did not
Speaker 2: believe that was going to happen to me. My almost
Speaker 2: eighteen year old Jack Russell is in his sweet hospice
Speaker 2: years at my house right now, and I thought, there's
Speaker 2: no way.
Speaker 1: He's my baby. He's my person. He thinks he's a person,
Speaker 1: he's a dog.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, but the cat thing, I still I just I
Speaker 2: thought about it for a second because Jolie really wanted
Speaker 2: when I was like, all right, that's how hard can
Speaker 2: this be? But then I'm allergic. My mom's husband is
Speaker 2: like deathly allergic and so and then I just was like,
Speaker 2: I just don't like cats.
Speaker 1: I could tell you if you've been around a cat
Speaker 1: in the last forty five days, like I'll stop breathing. Well,
Speaker 1: don't worry.
Speaker 2: So that is really out and said he didn't like cats.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, oh yeah, because that would be
Speaker 2: a oh.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just can't. I'm like looking at him
Speaker 1: like I was trying to zoom in on his eye, like,
Speaker 1: are you watering? Are you okay? Can I get a
Speaker 1: pull socks on this guy? Because that's a lot passing
Speaker 1: against cat people. Again, I just didn't grow up. I don't.
Speaker 1: I just am allergic to them.
Speaker 2: So they there's just kittens who are so cute. My
Speaker 2: friend Amy had a kitten in their day or other
Speaker 2: day Jesus. A couple months ago. She came to see
Speaker 2: me and when I.
Speaker 1: Was actually twenty eighteen, who she brought a kit And
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, it's cute. Yeah, but then when it
Speaker 1: just gets older, I think that's how my parents feel
Speaker 1: about me. They're precious. Okay, Well, it is fun to hear.
Speaker 1: The other side of love is blind though, because you know,
Speaker 1: when you tune in, you don't get there's so many
Speaker 1: There's only so much airtime they can give these people,
Speaker 1: and so there's a lot that gets edited out and
Speaker 1: you want to know exactly.
Speaker 2: But let's try and get the Boys next week.
Speaker 1: That'd be fun. I think that's fun. We'll see it
Speaker 1: will stay tuned. It would be maybe Amy and the Boy.
Speaker 2: Oh, we should get our therapist and the boys.
Speaker 1: Amy and the Boys sounds like a really cool rap group. Oh,
Speaker 1: I love that idea. Okay, I don't think Alan will
Speaker 1: go for it. But I don't think but he'll go
Speaker 1: for Alan. Yeah, well this one. Maybe there's a logger
Speaker 1: and a couple baby daddies in our future.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we'll give him a beer. Yeah, okay, all right,
Speaker 2: see you guys next week.