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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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Speaker 1: podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. My

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Speaker 1: co host and colleague Lisa Bramowitz is on vacation. But

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Speaker 1: he's not on vacation. Dan Fuss is the vice chairman

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Speaker 1: of Loomas Sales and Company based in Boston, and Dan

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Speaker 1: Fuss has been called by many the Warren Buffett of bonds.

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Speaker 1: He's an expert in the world of fixed income and

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Speaker 1: he joins us now, Dan Fuss, thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for being with us. I want to start off by

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Speaker 1: asking you about the federal reserves program to let debt

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Speaker 1: run off their books, and I'm wondering, if you combine

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Speaker 1: that with today's inflation report, do you believe that individuals

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Speaker 1: and consumers will still have money to spend to keep

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Speaker 1: the economy roaring? Um The quick answer is yes. The um.

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Speaker 1: The fet is PIM. The fet is very very early

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Speaker 1: in this process, and they are tiptoeing through it. And

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Speaker 1: as they gradually bring down the balance sheet and start

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Speaker 1: or continue to move up feed funds rate. Uh, they're

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Speaker 1: keeping a careful line. Now. I'll be the first to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: that inflation report and thinks along what I would call

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Speaker 1: the periphery of it, the advanced indicators. They say, okay,

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Speaker 1: here comes more inflation. But there's so much more to

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Speaker 1: it now. The basic readings on the economy unemployment are

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Speaker 1: also strong, so that's good. So from my domestic viewpoint, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it looks like they're on track to gradually take rates

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Speaker 1: up at a steady pace. Um. After a while, you

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Speaker 1: and I will feel that a bit, but only really

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Speaker 1: if we're gonna borrow, if we're asset holders and are

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Speaker 1: thinking of selling them depending on the asset housing for example,

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Speaker 1: things like that, then we would say, well, this is

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Speaker 1: good news because I'll probably get a higher nominal rate

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Speaker 1: as we go forward. Um. If on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: we want to borrow to buy something, that we're gonna say, oh,

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Speaker 1: and at some point you start to lose the buyers

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Speaker 1: for things again like real estate. So that's the net

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Speaker 1: note of it. Well, I'm glad you mentioned real estates

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Speaker 1: because example, let's say you take a thirty year mortgage

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Speaker 1: rate of three percent. Let's see it goes to five.

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Speaker 1: That means your monthly payment increases. Uh, it means you've

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Speaker 1: got a headache for sure. Now, bim um, if you've

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Speaker 1: got adjustable rate mortgages, he got a problem in this environment.

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Speaker 1: And so, by the way, does the lender if the

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Speaker 1: lender has lent at a fixed rate. So it's the

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Speaker 1: borrows problem if it's adjustable rate, and the lenders problem

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Speaker 1: if he's lending at a fixed rate. So this is uh,

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Speaker 1: this is really not a good thing, um, And you're

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Speaker 1: gonna run into some natural constraints on the economy at

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Speaker 1: some point. Where that point is, I don't know. Because

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Speaker 1: we're at basically full employment. If you say, if you

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Speaker 1: use the standard in the heaters, or even if you

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Speaker 1: go over and you loose you use participation rates, um,

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Speaker 1: you know things are are coming along just fine. The

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Speaker 1: one caution in this I forgot which one of those

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Speaker 1: fat speakers was speaking yesterday, but he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: all systems goal according to the dot plots and things

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Speaker 1: like that, inflation is rising, economy strong. They ought to

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Speaker 1: be shrinking the balance sheet a bit and taking short

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Speaker 1: rates up. Okay, that's that's well and good. But he

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Speaker 1: also put in the provisal that I think is in

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Speaker 1: all of our minds now saying this is all subject

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Speaker 1: to or bear in mind that we have some changes

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Speaker 1: on the trade front that might lead to surprises in here.

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Speaker 1: That's to beg uncertainty. You really don't know what's coming. Uh.

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Speaker 1: My analogy on that because I I it's like raising teenagers.

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Speaker 1: You're all ready to proceed on a certain basis, but

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Speaker 1: then you know you've got a huge uncertainty here. Same

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Speaker 1: thing in the forecasting business right now? Well is this

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Speaker 1: is this? Is this more like uh, you know a

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Speaker 1: movie Ferris Bueller Days Off? Or or or is it

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Speaker 1: more like Jack Nicholson in as good as it gets? Well,

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Speaker 1: you see more movies than I do. But it's uh,

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Speaker 1: this is not as good as it gets. So you

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Speaker 1: believe the economy will continue on this path. I think

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Speaker 1: the economy is strong. Now here's where the worry comes in.

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Speaker 1: You know, just from reading the papers a G. I

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Speaker 1: wonder what impacts the terroffs. And it's more than the

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Speaker 1: impact of the teriffs. It's the geopolitical impact of some

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Speaker 1: of the things that are going on. How will they

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Speaker 1: affect various aspects of the financial markets and other things.

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Speaker 1: So you've got that, um, But it also says, you know,

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Speaker 1: if we model this out based on past experience, Um,

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Speaker 1: what happens in a setting like this, what does the

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Speaker 1: models say? Well, the models say you get st inflation out.

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Speaker 1: Now what do you do then? And the other thing

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Speaker 1: pim uh is uh. You and I have talked about

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Speaker 1: this before, going back in our memories, we remember, Um,

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Speaker 1: so does the FED. They've mentioned this when the money

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Speaker 1: went sailing out of Southeast Asia to come here. Um.

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Speaker 1: We are, as the FED raiss rates. We attract money

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Speaker 1: from other parts of the world, and to the degree

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Speaker 1: the other parts of the world become a little less

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Speaker 1: certain because of trade restriction, restrictions of some sort, and

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Speaker 1: the subsequent chief political pressures that come with that. It's

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Speaker 1: broader than trade. Um. Then they say, well, I want

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Speaker 1: to be in a safe place, and the safe place

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Speaker 1: has the highest rates all the more reasons. So I'm

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Speaker 1: going Uh, the capital can do that. Not so easy

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Speaker 1: for the people, but they'll do that with their capital.

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Speaker 1: Then we've got a real mess in our hands. So, um,

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Speaker 1: that's a fear, and the Fed's got all this in

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Speaker 1: front of them, and um, it's an uncertain time right now.

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Speaker 1: They're they're sticking with the script, which is we're gonna

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Speaker 1: bump rates once or twice this year and another three

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Speaker 1: times next year. And some of them are saying again

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Speaker 1: in two thousand, um, and I I don't know how

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Speaker 1: hi they're gonna do. Goal. My own guests guestimate is

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Speaker 1: about three and the pit punts rate by then they'll

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Speaker 1: have something or the rest of the old curve will

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Speaker 1: normalize to some degree, not along it long and it

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Speaker 1: is different, but to ten years will sort of normalize that.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the wild guest Pim, Thanks very much, Dan Fuss,

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Speaker 1: Vice chairman, Loomis Sales and Company. He's been called by

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Speaker 1: some Warren Buffett of bonds. The shares of right Aid

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Speaker 1: they are lower by more than twenty percent since the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the year. And we know that right Aid

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Speaker 1: and the combination with Albertson's not necessarily going to make

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Speaker 1: it to the checkout counter. In fact, it's been a return.

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Speaker 1: It's back on the shelf here to tell us more

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Speaker 1: about this potential combination and why it didn't work is

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Speaker 1: none other than Bird Flickinger, managing director for Strategic Resource

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Speaker 1: Group Bert Why didn't the Right Aid Albertson's deal go through.

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Speaker 1: It didn't go through because large institutional shareholders in their idiocracy,

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Speaker 1: got greedy and they wanted more money. When the crazy

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Speaker 1: company was trading at about a box before the Albertson's bid,

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Speaker 1: and they wanted more than two dollars, Albertson s to

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Speaker 1: its credit, walked away as twenty four billion to buy

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Speaker 1: better things, and Right Aid faces a potential cataclysmic collapse. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but if you're so clear about this, what advice do

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Speaker 1: you believe the right AIG shareholders are getting. What's the

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Speaker 1: story that they're hearing. They're hearing from I S s

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Speaker 1: or institutional shareholders who they have a lot of respect for.

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Speaker 1: Typically it's right, but increasingly you have Baker scholars from

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Speaker 1: Harvard Business School and UH the the institutional arrogance of

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Speaker 1: the nine ivy schools from Penn to Princeton, uh to

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Speaker 1: to to Yale to Cambridge UH in Colombia, and they're

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Speaker 1: just looking at spreadsheets. They don't understand the rhythm of retail.

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Speaker 1: They don't understand the detail of retail. They don't understand

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Speaker 1: the synergies. They don't understand Bob Miller, CEO of Albertson's

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Speaker 1: Humble country Boy from Mississippi, but the best turnaround artist

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Speaker 1: in retail for the last forty years. Bob saved right

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Speaker 1: A the first time when Right eight CEO Marty Grass

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Speaker 1: committed the financial fraud. Said uh to the government. Bob Miller. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Bob Mill, save real, save right the first time with

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Speaker 1: with Mary Sammons when it was unsavable after massive financial

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Speaker 1: fraud and the executive officers, Uh did did eight months

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Speaker 1: in or eight years in a federal facility. Miller comes

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Speaker 1: to save it the second time. It should be prefera

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Speaker 1: real manner from heaven. UH. For for for the Mensa Canada,

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Speaker 1: Mensa men running these institutional funds, but they act like

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Speaker 1: Mensis society morons and and turn Albertson's down and and

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Speaker 1: and now they're stuck holding a bad credit. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: they don't have the capital to reinvest and compete effectively

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Speaker 1: and connect with consumers. Whether retailers the number one seller

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Speaker 1: of tobacco in the industry and can invest in beauty

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Speaker 1: and health and solar and all the things that Albertson, Zosco,

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Speaker 1: Savan Drug and others are doing so well. How much

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Speaker 1: money do you believe that right AID needs or is

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Speaker 1: there no estimate yet for what they need in order

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Speaker 1: to fix what is going on in their stores? Uh?

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Speaker 1: In my professional view and followed the followed the company

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Speaker 1: for nearly thirty years about five billion dollars. So if

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Speaker 1: you look at what Chris Baldwin did successfully with his

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Speaker 1: I p O invested in solar, being the leader in

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, New England, institutional funds shift from being with

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Speaker 1: proverbial Mr Burns from the Simpsons and nuclear UH two solar. UH.

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Speaker 1: We've done out side research up to or more of

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Speaker 1: consumers switch UH to places like BJ's, Albertson's solar flagship

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Speaker 1: and d C with Safeway Solar Maze landing everybody. Anybody

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Speaker 1: going to Jury City Shore this weekend, we'll see it. Right.

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Speaker 1: AID can't do solar for their warehouses to convert customers.

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Speaker 1: They can't do it for the stores. They can't do

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Speaker 1: the beauty like CVS, Target, Walgreen's Boots in store, UH

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Speaker 1: and Albertson's with the late Great Doug Sagan, whose funeral

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Speaker 1: I went to in Chicago, tragically died at fifty five.

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Speaker 1: But what Doug and his brothers and Bob Miller have

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Speaker 1: done at Albertson's in Chicago and across America with their

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Speaker 1: eight different banners, it's transformational and would have would have

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Speaker 1: saved right eight And what Susquohannah Highlands and Alberta Investment

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Speaker 1: Management are thinking about. In my professional view, it's like

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Speaker 1: Oprah White with tops friendly markets. UH you you you

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Speaker 1: could wind up buying bonds at a hundred cents on

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Speaker 1: the dollar or pocket a buck fifty on it on

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Speaker 1: its way down to next to nothing. As we talked before,

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Speaker 1: the toys are US bonds on the Bloomberg terminal uh,

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Speaker 1: and the unsecured debt that was supposed to get a

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Speaker 1: hundred cents on the dollar recovery PIM is getting three

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Speaker 1: tents of one cent. That could be the catastrophic consequences

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Speaker 1: for these crazy investors and I s S and made

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Speaker 1: the wrong move on on the guidance and rejecting the

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Speaker 1: right aid offer. Turn your attention now to another acquisition

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Speaker 1: that didn't happen, And this is important because it relates

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Speaker 1: to advertising revenues. Sinclair Broadcasting and Tribune Media, the Tribune stations.

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Speaker 1: What do you know about that, Pim. We as you know,

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Speaker 1: we've done a lot of Federal Trade Commission work with

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Speaker 1: all all the commissioners, all the all the chairmen and women,

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Speaker 1: and the f FTC staff is a little too officious

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Speaker 1: and vigilant and not looking at digital and consumer communication.

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Speaker 1: So with to your point, Sinclair and Tribute, that would

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Speaker 1: have been the perfect combination to create more competition, particularly

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Speaker 1: in an election year where whether it's Bloomberg or other networks,

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Speaker 1: the cost of media is at an all time high

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Speaker 1: and we'll get even higher going to the presidential election.

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Speaker 1: And Sinclair and Tribune could have customized uh separately, they'll

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Speaker 1: be okay, But the old janis Joplin. The combination of

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Speaker 1: the two is better. Uh. And it's too too bad.

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Speaker 1: Uh the f FTC didn't let them combine. Think it

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Speaker 1: was too much of a horizontal concentration of competition. Let's

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Speaker 1: turn to something that might be more positive. Who's doing

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Speaker 1: really well in this current retail environment? We uh, we

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Speaker 1: love Amazon full disclosure shareholder for a long time. People

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Speaker 1: go to his or her Bloomberg can see this stock

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Speaker 1: price essentially troubled and in a little over three years,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you look, you look at it. You look

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Speaker 1: at Chris Baldwin, who I didn't keep him from going

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Speaker 1: from the priests going into the priesthood when he disappointed

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Speaker 1: his mother and grandmother at Siena College, didn't go into

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Speaker 1: the seminary. I was part of the team that hired

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Speaker 1: him for Procter and Gamble, turned Hess retail around, turned

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Speaker 1: BJ's retail around, one of the most successful I p

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Speaker 1: O s on the Bloomberg terminal this year. Uh b

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Speaker 1: J's is hitting on all cylinders. Uh. You're also seeing

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Speaker 1: Macy's under uh Jeff Ginnett and Tony Spring at Bloomingdale's

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Speaker 1: tremendous momentum too. And uh talking to Bloomberg's Charlie Pellett,

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Speaker 1: uh c v c v assl uh and Walgreen's boots

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Speaker 1: capitalize on on this right aid catastrophe as well. So

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Speaker 1: while there's an accelerating retail I stage in bricks and

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Speaker 1: mortar retail, a lot of opportunities and bonds with the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminals as well as the equities, but as your

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Speaker 1: friend Lazlo Berni says, and Dan Sullivan uh and Kurt Wolf,

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Speaker 1: you have to be selective in what you pick and

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Speaker 1: really go through the terminal and find the best situations

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Speaker 1: because as you mentioned before the broadcast, you can't just

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Speaker 1: buy the market. You can't just buy the A T

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Speaker 1: F S. You have to be like you said Peter

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Speaker 1: Lynch and and and really focus on the right situations.

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Speaker 1: Bert flickincher many things. Bert Flickinger is Managing director of

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Speaker 1: Strategic Resource Group. You can follow Bert on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: Bert Underscore Flickinger. Earlier today, President Donald Trump said that

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Speaker 1: he has authorized doubling some of the medals tariffs have

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Speaker 1: been placed on Turkey. He sided poor relations with Turkey,

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Speaker 1: which is a NATO ally. This is also over a

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Speaker 1: conflict having to do with the detention of an American pastor.

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Speaker 1: Here to help us understand what's going on in Turkey

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Speaker 1: and whether this is a full blown crisis is Midge Raman.

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Speaker 1: He is the managing director of Europe for Eurasia Group,

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Speaker 1: joining us from London. Thanks very much for being with us, Midge.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of this crisis? Is itself inflicted

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Speaker 1: or was it a long time coming. To some extent,

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Speaker 1: it was a long time coming, but it's been handled

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Speaker 1: in a very knucklehead way by the Turkish administration. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: what Turkey has done is misinterpret the recent situation around

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Speaker 1: the US. Pastor Andrew Brunson, I think Marian's perspective, the

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Speaker 1: US is extremely eager to have the past the release,

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Speaker 1: and a such anchor is now playing hardball regarding the

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Speaker 1: kinds of demands it is hoping to extract in exchange

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Speaker 1: for this release. And I'll give you an example of

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Speaker 1: some of the things that are hoping for. There's a

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Speaker 1: probe against Houp Bank. They're hoping that any signs against

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Speaker 1: that bank or sanctions would be would be limited. They're

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Speaker 1: hoping the chief executive of that bank and Attila will

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Speaker 1: also be released as well as as well as a

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Speaker 1: number of other concessions. And I think this is a

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Speaker 1: big misinterpretation by the Turkish side of where the US

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Speaker 1: is in this standoffs. Based on what you've seen happen

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Speaker 1: to the Turkish lira today, do you believe the sell

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Speaker 1: off will continue? I do, and I think I mean

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Speaker 1: that the comment from our douan Um and the new

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Speaker 1: Treasury and Finance minister or Birack essentially suggest that what

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Speaker 1: they're hoping to do is let this crisis run into

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Speaker 1: local elections next year. They're very poor for the AKP,

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Speaker 1: for Adan and his team to assess the AKP's popularity.

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Speaker 1: I think they want the crisis to essentially to manage

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Speaker 1: it through until that time. I don't think markets are

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Speaker 1: going to give them that much time. So I think

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Speaker 1: what you will see as more conventional policy action by

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Speaker 1: the government interest rate rises. But it's a really open

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Speaker 1: question at this stage is to whether or not that

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Speaker 1: will suffice to stem the bleeding that we've been seeing

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Speaker 1: in the Lira. Will steelmakers, particularly in Turkey, be able

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Speaker 1: to survive until those elections. So I think the broader

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Speaker 1: question is whether the crisis can can run that long,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's highly unlikely. I think unless you

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Speaker 1: get a move by arid And in the fairly near

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Speaker 1: future to release this pastor, we're going to continue to

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Speaker 1: see pressure from the U S administrations. I'm thinking perhaps

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Speaker 1: more sanctions against high level Turkish officials. If there is

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Speaker 1: that standoff, of course, that's going to bleed into the market.

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Speaker 1: We're likely to see more capital flight, more pressure on

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Speaker 1: the current and it's at that stage I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone will essentially be faced with with two very tough choices,

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Speaker 1: either an I m F program or capital controls because

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Speaker 1: this is a country that has large external vulnerabilities. They

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Speaker 1: have a large current account deficit that needs financing, which

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Speaker 1: means they are dependent on external capital. So ultimately, I

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Speaker 1: think everyone is going to concede and we will see

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Speaker 1: this past or at least more quickly as opposed to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, after a long delay. But at the moment,

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Speaker 1: I think, as I say, I think the Turks believe

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Speaker 1: they have more bargaining power and they're trying to extract

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Speaker 1: more concessions from the US, and I think that's unlikely.

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Speaker 1: Banks in Europe are exposed to what's going on in Turkey,

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Speaker 1: specifically b b v A, UNI Credit in Italy, BNP

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Speaker 1: Party bar in France. If they called mid Raman and

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Speaker 1: asked for his advice, what would you say, I mean

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Speaker 1: at this at this point, I don't think the lights

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Speaker 1: to slashing red. I think the ECB Single Supervisory Mecha

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Speaker 1: there's in the eas send the regulator is aware of

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Speaker 1: exposure to the Turkish economy into the banking system. So

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Speaker 1: you know, there's there's there's there's some active monitoring going on,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think at this stage where near a crisis.

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Speaker 1: If if Turkey really wore to enter a full blown

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Speaker 1: balance of payments crisis, and I think there would be

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Speaker 1: some hit on the respective banking systems you've just outlined,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that would flow to become a larger

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Speaker 1: political crisis in any of these countries because in countries

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Speaker 1: like Spain and indeed France, a lot of work has

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Speaker 1: been done on the banking system through their respective crisis

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Speaker 1: since two thousand and eight. So you know, I think

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Speaker 1: there is exposure. The ECB is keeping an eye on that,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think this will necessarily precipitate or trigger

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Speaker 1: a crisis in any of these markets or with respect

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Speaker 1: of their banking systems. Do you believe that Turkey will

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Speaker 1: make an application to the International Monetary Fund for funds?

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Speaker 1: So this is the problem for air do one. I mean,

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Speaker 1: since he came to power, he has built a political

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Speaker 1: narrative on the back of having free Turkey from the

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Speaker 1: clutches of the I M S. So do you think

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Speaker 1: about the the recent elections, the fact and has now

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Speaker 1: instituted a presidential system that gives him a huge amount

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Speaker 1: of power and plain influence over the country's institutions. Accepting

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Speaker 1: the risk of the I m F would massively constrain

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Speaker 1: his ambitious, mega political project. So this isn't easy. However,

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Speaker 1: I do think it's the more likely outcome via the

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Speaker 1: capital controls, which I think would be extremely damaging economically

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Speaker 1: and and and and broadly, I think thanks to the

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Speaker 1: economic reputation of the country. So this is why I

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Speaker 1: think you will see today the government will announce an

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Speaker 1: economic reform plan. I don't think the idea of fiscal

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Speaker 1: consolidation or meaningful structural reforms will be apparent. I think

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Speaker 1: the market will be unconvinced. I think this pressure will continue,

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Speaker 1: and as I say, we'll see conventional policy action in

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Speaker 1: the street risers, probably an emergency hike in August, and

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Speaker 1: then I think it's really for us to see whether

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Speaker 1: or not we have to head down the route. And

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Speaker 1: I'm at program or compital control. Midd Ramen, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much, Managing Director Europe for Eurasia Group, joining us

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Speaker 1: from London. Not content with its success on the small screen,

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Speaker 1: Google is looking to the big screen. Billboards in railway stations,

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Speaker 1: shopping centers and shop windows in Germany, the company could

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Speaker 1: be branching out as it uses data from its user

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Speaker 1: database in order to display advertisements targeted to specific audiences.

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Speaker 1: Here to tell us more about this is Alex Webb,

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Innion calmness covering all things technology when it

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Speaker 1: comes to Europe, and he joins us from London. Alex,

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Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you here explain exactly what you

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Speaker 1: believe Google is looking to do. So this story is

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Speaker 1: really coming from Virtus Voco, which is in some ways

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Speaker 1: the closer to thing that Germany has to Business Week.

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Speaker 1: It literally is the translation. And they have reported the

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Speaker 1: Germany as that the Google is in talks in Germany

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Speaker 1: to get into out of home advertising, which is billboards

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Speaker 1: essentially and increasingly digital billboards, you know, screens which you

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Speaker 1: see it, as you say, at train stations and and

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Speaker 1: you know around the place in town centers. Now the

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Speaker 1: thing that Google, where Google can bring an edge to

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Speaker 1: this is at the moment those screens are kind of

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Speaker 1: bid for in a fairly classic way where someone says,

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Speaker 1: I would like to have twenty minutes over the course

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Speaker 1: of the day of my ad being displayed at these sites.

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Speaker 1: What Google does with its ads online is called programmatic advertising,

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Speaker 1: where essentially you have a live bidding process that every

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Speaker 1: time someone who kind of matches the demography you want

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Speaker 1: target visits a website, algorithms bid against each other to

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Speaker 1: show now to that person. Now, it's unlikely that they'll

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Speaker 1: be able to do that on such a specific person

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Speaker 1: to person basis, but they might be able to do

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Speaker 1: it more demographically. So if it can tell from the

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Speaker 1: number of mobile phones in the area that there are

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Speaker 1: males aged between twenty five and thirty with an average

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Speaker 1: income income of X, then it can decide to push

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Speaker 1: a particular kind of add to that billboard. Well, Alex,

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Speaker 1: let's use an example of a train station and you

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Speaker 1: have people arriving from different locations, perhaps for different events.

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Speaker 1: In your column you speak about a potential soccer match.

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Speaker 1: Give us an example of how you could be on

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Speaker 1: different platforms of a railway station and see different digital ads. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly so, particularly as more train stations introduced WiFi, for instance,

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Speaker 1: which can tell within quite a concentrated area which phone

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Speaker 1: are there. It can then probably you know, automatically identify

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Speaker 1: that the people on that platform overwhelmingly have an interest

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Speaker 1: in sports, and um, therefore it's better perhaps to push

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Speaker 1: them ads for beer or soccer cleats or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if it's on a different platform, there are commuters

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Speaker 1: heading home from work, um, that could probably work out

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Speaker 1: that it might be better to sell them an AD

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Speaker 1: or push them an AD for a car for instance. Um,

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Speaker 1: and is that sort of specificity which can enable a

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Speaker 1: better return on the investment in ads. Therefore they might

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Speaker 1: be able to charge more and generate more value from

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Speaker 1: that kind of billboard real estate? What is the market

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Speaker 1: for this billboard real estate? This digital billboard? So it's

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Speaker 1: proportionately as a as a proportion of global ad spend.

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Speaker 1: Depending on where you are, it's something between five and

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Speaker 1: nine percent, And people tend to estimate the global ad

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Speaker 1: market is somewhere around five fifty billion dollars. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not as valuable right now as digital

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Speaker 1: ads on the web or indeed on television. It's a

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Speaker 1: small part of that, but it is also everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: it has been slower to catch up with the ads

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Speaker 1: revolution than other parts of the ecosystem. Now, the one

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Speaker 1: thing I should add is that you know, digital ads

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Speaker 1: and and ad targeting based on user data or cell

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Speaker 1: phone data is already something that happens in a lot

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Speaker 1: of places. It's just not as sophisticated as it might be.

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Speaker 1: And Google clearly has a lot of expertise in really

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Speaker 1: highly sophisticated ad targeting. Now there's highly sophisticated ad targeting

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Speaker 1: depends on location based mobile data. Correct, Yes, it would

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Speaker 1: be ultimately. You know Google in Europe for instance, it

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Speaker 1: has sev of um cell phones using Android. That means

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Speaker 1: that it's got a pretty good sense of what sort

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Speaker 1: of people are in any given area at any given time. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: I when I was at the can Ads Festival last month,

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Speaker 1: I spoke to some people about this and they said,

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Speaker 1: for instance that they you know, they have they already

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Speaker 1: buy data from mobile phone carriers and that helps them,

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Speaker 1: um workout who is there. But as I said, like

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Speaker 1: the ability to automate that process and therefore, um, you

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Speaker 1: reduce some of the overheads where Google can really innovate

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Speaker 1: and drive this forward. Alex If, for example, you are

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Speaker 1: taking a train in the London Underground and you're waiting

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Speaker 1: on the platform with your mobile phone and it's connected

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Speaker 1: to the free WiFi in the London underground. Can they

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Speaker 1: then use that information to then push adds to you. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is where there's something of a gray era, and

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Speaker 1: there's not much legislation right now, but I think at

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Speaker 1: the moment it would seem unlikely that they will be

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Speaker 1: able to do it specifically to me, you know, be

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Speaker 1: quite creepy. If, for instance, I'll give you an example,

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Speaker 1: when I visit Amazon, for some reason I don't smoke,

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Speaker 1: I get ads for Nicorette constantly. Now I think it's

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Speaker 1: because I bought a a French liqueur, which a lot

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Speaker 1: of smokers drink, and so therefore it assumes that I'm

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Speaker 1: a smoker. Now that sort of every time I went

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Speaker 1: on a platform, if I were to get an ad

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Speaker 1: for nicarette, I think that that might feel like an intrusion.

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Speaker 1: And also I don't want to have some sort of

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Speaker 1: reflected judgment from the friends who might be on the

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Speaker 1: platform with me. So you know, that sort of public

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Speaker 1: specific advertising, I think is something which will not happen

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Speaker 1: anytime soon. But this sort of broader demographic targeting is

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Speaker 1: something which is developing. I want to thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for enlightening us a fascinating topic. Alex web our

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion columnists for all Things Technology based in London,

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Speaker 1: and I encourage you to read his piece on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Opinion all about how Google Ads will

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Speaker 1: be targeting a billboard near you. Thanks for listening to

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscribe and

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00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: listen to interviews at Apple Podcast, sound Cloud, or whatever

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Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox, I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's

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Speaker 1: one before the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide

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Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio