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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends,

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Speaker 1: Today we are joined by someone that I admire so much,

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Speaker 1: that I have cherished for such a long time, and

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Speaker 1: who I think is hands down one of the coolest

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Speaker 1: human beings that I know. Today's guest on Work in

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Speaker 1: Progress is none other than Lena Waithe. You know her

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Speaker 1: as an Emmy winning writer, producer, actor, and the founder

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Speaker 1: of Hellman Grad. She is known for Master of None,

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Speaker 1: The Shy Queen, and Slim. Lena's film credits, TV credits,

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Speaker 1: They just go on and on and on, from winning

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Speaker 1: awards at Sundance to again being Emmy nominated for documentaries,

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Speaker 1: Lina did not come to play. She is an incredible

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Speaker 1: creator in every single sense of the word, which is

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Speaker 1: probably why she was named one of Time magazines one

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Speaker 1: hundred most influential people all the way back in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 1: She was included on Fast Companies Queer fifty lists in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two. Lena just keeps

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Speaker 1: on winning. Born in Chicago, Illinois, Lena always knew that

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Speaker 1: she wanted to be a television writer and was lucky

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Speaker 1: enough to be supported by her family and along the

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Speaker 1: way discovered that she happens to be a fantastic actor too.

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Speaker 1: I cannot wait to talk to her about her journey,

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Speaker 1: her creativity in every single vertical that it touches, and

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Speaker 1: the ways that she thinks about storytelling and her latest project,

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Speaker 1: her brand new podcast, Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe, which

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Speaker 1: is a love letter to black women in entertainment. She

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Speaker 1: sits down with incredible icons and trailblazers to discuss their

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Speaker 1: creative process, their journey, and how they became the women

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Speaker 1: and leaders and artists that they are today. Legacy Talk

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Speaker 1: really is more than just a series of interviews. It's

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Speaker 1: a documentation of the stories and experiences of women who

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Speaker 1: have shifted narratives, broken barriers, and inspired a generation. I

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Speaker 1: am not surprised that Lena is tackling this latest vertical

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Speaker 1: with the same curiosity and excellence that she brings to

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Speaker 1: every single project. Let's dive in with Lena Waithe. Lena,

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you're here today.

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Speaker 2: I'm so happy I'm doing this is like my first

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Speaker 2: thing of the day.

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Speaker 1: It is I love that, and you know, I just

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Speaker 1: love the that of you. I was trying to tell

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Speaker 1: my producers today. When we jumped on, they were like,

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Speaker 1: how do you guys know each other?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, I, Michelle Obama is where we met?

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Speaker 1: Is that where we met for the first time.

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Speaker 2: I think that's where we met. Oh god, social before that,

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Speaker 2: But in terms of meeting, I think was there. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I just remember when like we started getting in the dms,

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Speaker 1: like chatting about things, and I was like, wait a second.

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Speaker 1: I really admire this woman as a storyteller, and I

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Speaker 1: also think I love who she is as a person,

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Speaker 1: Like are we gonna be friends? And here we are

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Speaker 1: and I love it.

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Speaker 2: And also we have a great mutual for an Alex Edelman,

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Speaker 2: like the homie.

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Speaker 1: The brother, the best, just the yummiest little bro in

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: Ever.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I was just like, Okay, So something I find

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Speaker 1: really fascinating about you because we know a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that are multi hyphenits, but you are like you

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Speaker 1: are like a multi hyphen in like an algebra problem

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Speaker 1: like that you just keep stacking pieces of the equation.

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Speaker 1: And when I put my you know, interviewer hat on

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Speaker 1: and started to dig into things about your life, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know. I had no idea that you always knew

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be a writer, like since you were

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Speaker 1: at all? And I ask a lot of the folks

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Speaker 1: who come on the show because people know you as

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Speaker 1: you know, public figure or all the things you are.

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Speaker 1: I always like to see if you could meet your

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Speaker 1: nine year old self, if you would see who you

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Speaker 1: are today in that child. And I'm like, well, obviously

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Speaker 1: you did, because you always knew you wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a writer. So like, can you tell me where your

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Speaker 1: interests and your love of storytelling started? Do you have

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Speaker 1: a moment where you knew or was it always there?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think I grew up watching a lot

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Speaker 2: of TV as a kid. Being in the nineties, it

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Speaker 2: was sort of like a Heyday for TV. I think

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Speaker 2: from young people you know what to be tgif you know,

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Speaker 2: Full House, Family Matters, step by Step, Charles in Charge,

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Speaker 2: Small Wonder Out, Empty Nest, you know. And then but

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Speaker 2: also like there were so many great shows with all

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Speaker 2: black casts, like Obviously A Different World, which was one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest influences on me and the Cosby show.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned Family Matters, Fresh Prince of bel Air was

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Speaker 2: really Dopehood, which was actually a show that Robert townsended,

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Speaker 2: which is sort of like his Cosby show, and so

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Speaker 2: there were just Wayne's brothers. I remember it was a

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Speaker 2: really cool show. I at least loved watching The Living

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Speaker 2: Color coming up. So there was just a shmortgage board

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Speaker 2: of like TV shows and entertainment with really amazing talent.

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Speaker 2: And I was really inspired and influenced by the kind

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Speaker 2: of storytelling that was happening. I remember Demolition Man, like

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Speaker 2: you know, we always say before Black Panther, it was

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Speaker 2: a little demolish Man, which Robert Townsend did with the

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Speaker 2: blonde hair and like the superheroes in their own neighborhood

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Speaker 2: trying to save their neighborhood from evil doers. And we

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Speaker 2: have had all this stuff, and I think I just

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Speaker 2: kind of saw that and thought that that was normal

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Speaker 2: and there was nothing odd about that. And so but

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Speaker 2: I also grew up watching Oprah win for every Day,

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Speaker 2: and like you know, and after you know, it's like

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Speaker 2: being in Chicago knowing that's where she filmed the show

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Speaker 2: was yet really a source of pride for us, and

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Speaker 2: I just think it was a really fruitful time and

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Speaker 2: and for me to be a kid growing up at

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Speaker 2: my grandmother's house with a single mom, you know, older sister,

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Speaker 2: I you know, we were last ki kids, so we

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Speaker 2: would come home and watch television and cook for ourselves

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Speaker 2: and wait for our parents to get home from work.

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Speaker 2: And that was actually the time where I think we

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Speaker 2: were becoming ourselves. Also watching music videos a ton like

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Speaker 2: being people watching the box, you know what, you could

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Speaker 2: call and request the music video. You know, that was

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Speaker 2: sort of our TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. We really were.

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Speaker 2: It was very analog. I remember I could walk to

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Speaker 2: the Blockbuster, you know, and I ended up working there

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Speaker 2: and renting movies. And that's how I remember renting Hoop

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Speaker 2: Dreams and you know, seeing parents is burning like on

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Speaker 2: vhs and discovering these things and these treasure trows of

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Speaker 2: footage and documentation of stories and people and these character

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Speaker 2: even watching documentaries thinking about who dreams like is like

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Speaker 2: a real person, But he felt like like a character,

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Speaker 2: like somebody I knew, being from Chicago, trying to play basketball,

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Speaker 2: trying to make his family proud. These are just things

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Speaker 2: that I kind of saw and could relate to, it,

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Speaker 2: could understand, And I think that was really what the

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Speaker 2: Seeds were playing it in terms of wanting to tell

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Speaker 2: stories that felt vulnerable and felt honest.

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Speaker 1: Hmm. I love that. Yeah, you know you're making me

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Speaker 1: realize too that we Yeah, I mean we grew up

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Speaker 1: in this moment where not to say everything was like

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Speaker 1: perfect or fixed, but where art was growing in such

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Speaker 1: a way, these messages of these stories were growing in

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Speaker 1: all of these beautiful ways. More and more people were

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Speaker 1: getting to be represented. We're getting to be on TV.

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Speaker 1: Like I I studied journalism in college because of Oprah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you know, like I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: I you will love this. When I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: it would take just long enough for me to get

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Speaker 1: home from school, and like when the years that I

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Speaker 1: was like eight nine, my mom was picking me up

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Speaker 1: at that time, and I sat her down and I

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Speaker 1: was like, Mom, nothing happens in the last period anyway,

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Speaker 1: And if you pick me up after school ends, I

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Speaker 1: get home at three fifteen, and I missed the first

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Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of Oprah, and I learned way more from

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Speaker 1: Oprah than I learned at the end of the day

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Speaker 1: at school. So I think you should pick me up

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Speaker 1: at two forty five. And my mom was like, first

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Speaker 1: of all, are you going to be a lawyer? Who

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Speaker 1: do you think you are? And I'm not negotiating with

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Speaker 1: my young child to leave school early so you can

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Speaker 1: come home to watch Oprah.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, she's my class though, and look

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Speaker 2: at your guy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like, I don't know, I think about that,

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Speaker 1: and I think we were really we were so lucky

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Speaker 1: to have her as women that are passionate about the

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Speaker 1: world around us, as storytellers, and we were really lucky

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Speaker 1: to have all these shows and all these creators that

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Speaker 1: you're referencing. We I worry for today's kids, like anything

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Speaker 1: that isn't you know, traditional, I'll do the air quotes

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Speaker 1: meaning like tip represented by power is suddenly like weaponized

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Speaker 1: as political and I'm like, maybe it was actually just

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Speaker 1: dope when everybody got to be on TV, like when

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Speaker 1: we just told all kinds of different stories about all

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Speaker 1: kinds of different people. And the nineties really were this

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Speaker 1: like blossoming moment for a lot of that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean when you look back at like, you know,

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Speaker 2: CNN does like a study about the decades and the

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Speaker 2: nineties one is super obviously fascinating because that was my nostalgia.

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Speaker 2: But it's true, it was. It was very a fruitful time,

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Speaker 2: you know, and we're taking risks and music was really dope,

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Speaker 2: you know, and TV and and and I think but

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Speaker 2: also I think the Oprah Winfrey Show was something that wow, boy,

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Speaker 2: did we take that for granted? I think at the time,

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Speaker 2: just in terms of seeing a black woman on television

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Speaker 2: being curious and being empathetic and being open to learning something.

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Speaker 2: You know, she remember the that was like the light

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Speaker 2: bulb moment. That's what it became, you know, famous, you

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Speaker 2: know on the show, just the idea of a light

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Speaker 2: bulb going off above. Yes, oh, I've never thought of

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Speaker 2: it that way before. That's such an interesting and powerful

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Speaker 2: thing to say. I'm telling shem Oprah, who we would

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Speaker 2: think knows all she was as expressing the people. Even

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Speaker 2: though you think, you know, I'm the leader of the pack,

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Speaker 2: I'm still learning things with you. You know, I'm still

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Speaker 2: growing with you.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and to make learning something beautiful and something to

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Speaker 1: aspire to.

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Speaker 2: Book club like yeah, like her gathering people to talk

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Speaker 2: about a book and with the author. I remember like

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Speaker 2: she had Tony Morrison sent at the table with all

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Speaker 2: these women and like them talking about her book and

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Speaker 2: her literature and asking her questions. On television. You know,

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Speaker 2: that was a real, a real thing and and wow,

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Speaker 2: I just you know, I miss it sometimes.

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Speaker 1: I do too. I wish we could go back. I

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Speaker 1: ate up life class. When she was like, let me

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Speaker 1: do this show. That's like the highlight reel of all

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Speaker 1: my shows.

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Speaker 2: I was like, give it, yeah, or masterclass or master

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Speaker 2: class on own. You don't remember that Maya Angelou episode,

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Speaker 2: the Dian Carrol episode, the Woopie Goldberg episode. Yeah, And

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Speaker 2: I think, but I think Oprah did a master class

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Speaker 2: to her, So I think she did so maybe probably

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Speaker 2: just a way for us to kind of learn how

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Speaker 2: these giants became who they were, but also showing you

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Speaker 2: that giants started out not unlike you, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: listen to their inner voice and walked in their purpose.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the big thing Oprah was always really

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Speaker 2: good about, was really sort of telling us, like, the

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Speaker 2: person that you think is the smartest in the world,

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Speaker 2: the most accomplishing the world, the wisest, began you know

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Speaker 2: in the way that you did. You know, Yeah, the

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Speaker 2: house and unsure and if they had were dealing with

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Speaker 2: self doubt and not knowing and someone eventually finding their voice,

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Speaker 2: and so it make sure you sit at home and go, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: they can do it. You know why not?

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Speaker 1: I yeah, do you feel like that's what you were

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Speaker 1: gleaning in those hours that that kind of incredible time

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Speaker 1: you got between me and you got home from school

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Speaker 1: and you know the adults got home. Were you beginning

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Speaker 1: to see, oh, any kind of insecurity or very human

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Speaker 1: fear I might have? You know, we all asked that question, like, well,

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Speaker 1: who am I to do this? Do you think the

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Speaker 1: lesson was? These people all did it, so I'm going

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Speaker 1: to try to do it? Like how did you take

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Speaker 1: the leap?

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Speaker 2: I mean, well, I think I wasn't thinking about it

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Speaker 2: in that way at that time. I think that's what

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Speaker 2: really great entertainment content, you know, media does where I

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Speaker 2: think those particularly speak about the master classes that she

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Speaker 2: would do in a particularly May Angelo. That one really

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Speaker 2: sticks out of my head. But I think I just

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Speaker 2: was taking it in. I think I was taking it

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Speaker 2: in and I was very aware of who my Angelo

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Speaker 2: was and continues to be in our world, even though

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Speaker 2: she may not be earthside anymore. I think it was

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Speaker 2: just important to hear her speak in the talk, and

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Speaker 2: and I didn't even understand the weight of it then,

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Speaker 2: because I think in those moments, that's not what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's why, you know, I think it's

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Speaker 2: not just about images, it's about what are people saying,

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Speaker 2: what's sort of being conveyed, and because it'll hit people later. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's important just to you know, just to take

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Speaker 2: it in.

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Speaker 1: Just Yeah, you were, you were having nice afternoons like vibeing,

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Speaker 1: watching music videos, and now you look back and you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I was, I was taking a master clas ta. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We saw Rosie Rosie O'donald Show two every day at

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Speaker 2: three o'clock. For us, Oprah was on at nine am

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Speaker 2: and then in the evening and afternoon Rosie was at

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Speaker 2: the afternoon like three o'clock. Yet talk shows were a thing,

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Speaker 2: like it was a it was a big deal. They

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Speaker 2: still are now, but I don't know, like we used

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Speaker 2: to watch like the talk shows all the time. Oh

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Speaker 2: I loved them.

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Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make the

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Speaker 1: show possible. What were your early days like when you

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Speaker 1: when you first moved out to LA Like, what what

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Speaker 1: was the experience like trying to begin to break into

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Speaker 1: the industry.

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Speaker 2: Well, we had some thing called the semester in LA

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Speaker 2: that Columbia College. I don't know if I think they

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Speaker 2: still do it. I hope they, But yeah, where I

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Speaker 2: got to spend a semester, you know, about twelve weeks,

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Speaker 2: you know, in LA and maybe many people were doing it.

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Speaker 2: I was sort of inspired. But the advice I got

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Speaker 2: was make it your last semester, because if you go

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Speaker 2: and then come back to Chica, I got like, you

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Speaker 2: kind of lose some of the contacts that you made.

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Speaker 2: So I took that advice and just got all my

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Speaker 2: credits lined up and do what I had to do

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Speaker 2: and spend my final semester in Los Angeles, which was

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Speaker 2: the best advice ever because I stayed out here and

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Speaker 2: then went back to that and then came back. But

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Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't miss a step. And the truth

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Speaker 2: is I didn't know anybody out here, you know, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have any contacts, you know. I just wanted to

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Speaker 2: meet people and get wanted to get to know folks

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Speaker 2: and wanted to learn and grow. And that was really

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Speaker 2: I think one of my strong points was that I

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Speaker 2: really wanted to just meet folks to see what they

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Speaker 2: were getting into and what they were doing, and if

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Speaker 2: it aligned with what I was doing, maybe we should

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Speaker 2: kind of link up and hang out. That's just kind

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Speaker 2: of how I've always operated, and which is a different

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Speaker 2: type of operator, you know, and not about what can

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Speaker 2: I get from you, but rather oh, you're doing the

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Speaker 2: same thing. You know, we can maybe share information and

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Speaker 2: see if we can help each other. And I still

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Speaker 2: rate that way. I think that's sort of how I

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Speaker 2: like to move. And yeah, and the thing is is

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Speaker 2: like I think LA is like any other place, you

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Speaker 2: kind of find your tribe slowly but surely. And then

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Speaker 2: it was important for me to also hunker down and

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Speaker 2: really hone my crafts. And I think that's how the

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Speaker 2: people can get lost in Los Angeles about going to things,

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Speaker 2: going to events. A lot of panels were happening when

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Speaker 2: I was first out here, which were amazing. They're not

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Speaker 2: as prevalent now, but it was good just to go

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Speaker 2: network and meet people and stuff. So that's what I

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Speaker 2: was really doing. It was like networking and then eventually

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Speaker 2: trying to find my voice and get finding jobs I'll

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Speaker 2: find in my voice and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And I do think the it's changed a bit now

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Speaker 2: because people the world is smaller. You can kind of

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Speaker 2: go online and kind of build an audience and build

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Speaker 2: the following but I think what's sort of happening is

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Speaker 2: there's not that time to home one's voice, and I

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Speaker 2: think that's really where people are able to shine. Like

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Speaker 2: Quinta has a voice, you know, Yes, you know Brian,

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Speaker 2: the guy who does an English Teacher, he has a voice, yes,

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Speaker 2: and it's very distinctive. And I think that, to me

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Speaker 2: is what I hope people are understanding. When you're watching

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Speaker 2: English Teacher, when you're watching Avid Elementary. They both happen

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Speaker 2: to be shows that take place in schools and dealing

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Speaker 2: with teachers, but they couldn't be more different. And really

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Speaker 2: it's a great example to show folks, is like, that's

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Speaker 2: what it means to be a writer. You both can

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Speaker 2: do it in a similar setting, but they both can

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Speaker 2: feel really different. And that's because both of those show

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Speaker 2: creators who happen to be in the shows as well

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Speaker 2: a multi hyphens, they have really found their voice. So

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Speaker 2: that's why you know when you're watching Abit, you know

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Speaker 2: when you're watching English Teacher, not just because you o

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Speaker 2: they're different shows, but because the voices are so unique.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's why you both of them for

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Speaker 2: different reasons. And then if you put on twenties or

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Speaker 2: the shy those that's specific to my voice. And so

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Speaker 2: I always try to tell writers. I'm like, don't follow

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Speaker 2: the marketplace, no such thing, and don't try to be

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Speaker 2: don't try to hit. It's really about what is your voice?

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Speaker 2: What do you have to say? Say? What is specific

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Speaker 2: about you? What's a movie that only you can write?

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Speaker 2: That's why I think this has kind of gone away.

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Speaker 2: But there was a time where people are so afraid

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Speaker 2: somebody was going to steal their idea. Yeah, wives tell

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Speaker 2: about the matrix. You know, it's like I don't want

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Speaker 2: my I'm like, it's impossible, Like you can take you

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Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. It's like the idea, but they

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Speaker 2: can't execute it the way you wult it. So you know.

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Speaker 2: And also I always tell people like, if you're afraid

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Speaker 2: somebody's gonna take a idea, you got to start seeing

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Speaker 2: coming up with a whole bunch of more ideas. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's only got one. Then I don't know. I love that.

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Speaker 2: What do you think.

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Speaker 1: From this vantage point, because like, there's a lot of life,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of work. When you talk about finding

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Speaker 1: your voice. If a young artist is listening to this

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Speaker 1: and it's like but how do I do that? Like

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Speaker 1: from here? How how do you think you would say

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Speaker 1: to somebody, this would be my my small slice of

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Speaker 1: a roadmap for you. How do you encourage people because

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Speaker 1: you're such a great mentor as the writer and producer

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Speaker 1: that you are. I wonder do you have advice you

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Speaker 1: like to give people on that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I try to tell people to watch a bunch

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Speaker 2: of TV. Watch you know, classic movies. Yeah, that's really important.

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Speaker 2: I think I always getting nervous when someone tells me

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Speaker 2: they want to write for TV, but don't watch it.

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Speaker 2: You'd be surprised people like the show. Have you seen this? No?

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Speaker 2: I haven't seen that. You haven't seen it. And it's

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Speaker 2: always sort of like, it's important to know what's working. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: important to know what's good. I like that, and know

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Speaker 2: what you don't like if you watch the shows. I

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Speaker 2: don't like this show? Why not? Why does it? Boy you?

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Speaker 2: Why doesn't I hold your attention? You know? And then

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Speaker 2: like I really love this show. Why do you love

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Speaker 2: the show? Like the characters? What do you like about

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Speaker 2: the characters?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Are coming back to it every week. And so the

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Speaker 2: thing is is like, if you want to create a

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Speaker 2: show that people love good to know what shows are

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Speaker 2: out there that people are loving and why and reading

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Speaker 2: scripts and you know, talking to writers you know that

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Speaker 2: maybe have written something that you like. There's a sort

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Speaker 2: of idea that I can do it all by myself

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Speaker 2: or I don't need somebody else to give me feedback,

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Speaker 2: or I don't mean like I still give people want

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Speaker 2: my stuff to read and give me feedback and people

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Speaker 2: I respect people that I appreciate their opinion, and I

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Speaker 2: get notes and I incorporate that and the work gets better.

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Speaker 2: And so I think that's something that people don't often see.

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Speaker 2: It is sort of think, oh, I just sit down

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Speaker 2: and write something and give it to something. It's like

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Speaker 2: now it goes through a bunch of stages of you know,

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Speaker 2: getting feedback, doing a table read, doing another past, getting

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Speaker 2: feedback again, and then reading it again and trying it

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Speaker 2: again and giving it to someone. And so I think

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Speaker 2: there's this desire this quick, you know, microwave, nuke and

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Speaker 2: let's go, and it's just no, I mean, I just

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Speaker 2: I have a you know, I sit down with Debbie

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Speaker 2: Allen for the finale of Legacy, talk with Mena Waite,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not like giving away anything too much. But

400
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Speaker 2: I asked her, I said, how long did it take

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Speaker 2: you to get Almostade made? How long? She was like

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Speaker 2: eighteen years, No, eighteen years.

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Speaker 1: I thought, I was like, you telling this story means

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Speaker 1: she's going to say like ten years, eighteen years.

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Speaker 2: Eighteen years and we and I told her, I said,

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Speaker 2: my school went on a field trip to go see

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Speaker 2: Almistid Wow and obviously directed by the Gracia the spiel Work,

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Speaker 2: who obviously I worked, put me in my first feature,

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Speaker 2: Ready to Play one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But that is something people should understand, is that, like

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Speaker 2: some things that are really good, and sometimes it takes

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Speaker 2: a while, and sometimes something comes and it's like it's

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Speaker 2: pretty quick, like it happens you're like, oh man, okay,

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Speaker 2: we get this. But I just really want people to

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Speaker 2: understand that anything worth getting made and getting done and

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Speaker 2: worth having, often times it's gonna take a be it's

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Speaker 2: gonna take a while, it's gonna take patience, it's gonna

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Speaker 2: take you know, it ain't gonna be the first ride.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be the thousand. You know, you're still needling

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Speaker 2: and you're still trying to make it right. And that's

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Speaker 2: what it is to be a creative. That's what it

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Speaker 2: is to be a writer. Just because it's never done.

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Speaker 2: You know, you can always make it better, you can

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Speaker 2: always make it stronger. And also now mind you as me,

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Speaker 2: every note you get is right for you, you know.

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Speaker 2: But I think that's what knowing your voice is that

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Speaker 2: knowing you're not saying no because you don't want to

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Speaker 2: do the work or because you're afraid to go in

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Speaker 2: and see. But maybe if you say no because you

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Speaker 2: know what, like, that's not the story I'm telling. I

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Speaker 2: get the note, but that's not the story I'm telling.

433
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,960
Speaker 2: If I do that something else, you know, it's like,

434
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: but that note enhances the story I'm telling and makes

435
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: the story I'm telling even stronger and clearer. So I

436
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 2: appreciate that. And that's that's the big thing too. It

437
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 2: just takes you know, it just takes time to learn

438
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: you know, what notes make sense of what notes don't.

439
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: But the truth is, because you got to leave your

440
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 2: ego at the door, you know. In a while people,

441
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 2: Me and Gina talked about this on episode Legacy Talk.

442
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: She's like, a lot of people give me their material

443
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 2: because they want me to tell them it's great. And

444
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 2: she was like, when I have to get from my material.

445
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,920
Speaker 2: She's like, you wanted me just to tell you the truth? Yes,

446
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,640
Speaker 2: And she was like, and I did, and you came

447
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: back with the new draft and she was like, it's

448
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: so rare for people to do that. And I was surprised.

449
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 2: I say it is. She's like, oh yeah, you'll get

450
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: somebody down from them again, and so oh yeah, this

451
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 2: happened to me too, Like you know, so that's why

452
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: I kind of start to figure out ways. I'm like,

453
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: how can I because everybody you know has a has

454
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: a thing, and the truth is they just really need real,

455
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: honest feedback. And a lot of people don't want honest feedback.

456
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: They want to be told this was great and I

457
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: wish you well and I hope this becomes a big

458
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 2: hit versus you know, this kind of slowed down from

459
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: me in the second act, or these two characters wort

460
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: of sound the same, or I got lost here at

461
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: the end. Folks don't want to hear that because it's

462
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 2: sort of like, oh, snap, okay, I got to go

463
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:53,720
Speaker 2: back to the drawing board, or I got to like

464
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 2: reoutline this, or I need to you know, go back

465
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 2: in because that's where the writing begins, is the rewriting.

466
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: Right. Well, what I what I'm hearing a lot of

467
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: is that you have to have you know, on the

468
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: one hand, you're talking about knowing your voice and your vision,

469
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: so you have to be able to, as you said,

470
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: say that's not the story I'm telling. That is additive

471
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: to the story I'm telling. And it like it's the

472
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: both and it's like the improv right, It's like, on

473
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: the one side, you really got to know what it

474
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: is you want to talk about, and on the other side,

475
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: you really have to be willing to self interrogate. You

476
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 1: have to be willing to not let your ego lead.

477
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: And I think, especially in the world of the constant

478
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,920
Speaker 1: refresh right, like the thumb drag on Instagram, everybody wants new, more, now, now, now,

479
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: and the patience that this shit takes is not for

480
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 1: the fate of heart, not at all.

481
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 2: And well, I think that's what I really want people

482
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 2: to understand is that it's a long journey, it's a marathon,

483
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 2: and there is no finish line. Yeah, there's no there there.

484
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 2: And then the biggest suff ice trying to get people

485
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: all the time, particularly writers who want to necessarily write,

486
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: you know, whether you for television, or for film or playwrights.

487
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 2: Table read, Table read, table read, Get actors, get people,

488
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: get writers, get friends, get neighbors, get anybody that's willing

489
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 2: to come to read your work out loud, because I

490
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 2: think a lot of times when you're alone and you're

491
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: writing these lines, they feel like Shakespeare. But then when

492
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: someone comes in and tries to say it, they can't

493
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 2: get through it because it's really no, that's not kind

494
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,120
Speaker 2: to the actor. You know, it's it's fun the writer,

495
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 2: but the actor has a hard time saying. And I

496
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: always say, sometimes writers write lines that don't feel comfortable

497
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 2: in actors'.

498
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: Mouths yes and so.

499
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 2: And that's why for me, when I'm sitting down, I

500
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 2: say the line after I try to say it, I

501
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 2: try to like act like I'm both characters and act

502
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 2: it out and go, oh shit, I'm stumbling over this,

503
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 2: or I'm having a hard time or this isn't And

504
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,159
Speaker 2: that's why I think what I've been really grateful for

505
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 2: is that I really try to write dialogue that sounds conversational,

506
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: that sounds quy, and that can feel like music. And

507
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,239
Speaker 2: so that's what kind of we're pretty tough on our

508
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: cast on the shire because I want my voice to

509
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 2: shine through, and so you can't ad lib, you know,

510
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: and they don't get to throw stuff in even a

511
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: man a huh or this, and that it throws off

512
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: the rhythm. And so we always tell the actors, I'm like,

513
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 2: it's you know, for for me and looking, we're gonna

514
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 2: we are season seven next year, and so it's like

515
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: people get used to a certain rhythm or a certain

516
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,120
Speaker 2: way that these characters or a certain where I'm trying

517
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: to find a character, So I need to make sure

518
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 2: every line, every word that comes out like we're establishing them.

519
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 2: We're trying to figure out who this character is. And

520
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 2: so we really do need actors to really say the

521
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: lines and to rock with us. And that means it's

522
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: even more responsibility on us as the writers in that

523
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: table reads, you know, like, hey, is that line too

524
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: hard for you to say? Okay, cool, we'll adjust it,

525
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: we'll figure it out. We'll try to try to hide

526
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: exposition here. So yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a

527
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 2: lot of back and forth. It's trial and error. It's

528
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: it's listening, it's paying attention. But again, it's about finding

529
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: my unique voice. And it goes from me watching everybody

530
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 2: from Aaron Sorkin's work to Matthew Winer's work, you know,

531
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 2: Judit mad Men, watching watching Gray's Anatomy, you know Seanmes.

532
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: You know, it's a big influence as well. So it's

533
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: really about every writer has their own obviously watching Spike

534
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: Lee movies all the time, but it's a very specific

535
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: rhythm to his work. And and yeah, and that's that's

536
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: why I always tell people, I'm like, watch the Greats,

537
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: watch the Ghosts, listen to what they've done, and then

538
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: figure out what your pattern is, what your what your

539
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,479
Speaker 2: tone is, what you're what your pacing is, rather than

540
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: you know, mimicking, which we all kind of start out doing.

541
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. Well, and

542
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: I love the way you talk to about the rhythm

543
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: of something because I know what it's like as an

544
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: actor to say, look, the shape of these words don't

545
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: fit in my mouth. It Can we tweak this? Can

546
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: we can I use this word instead of this one?

547
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: And I think if there's a willingness to find it,

548
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: essentially what you're talking about, it's like linguistic choreography exactly.

549
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: You know, you're making this musical the dance number has

550
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: to work, and dialogue can be that beautiful if you

551
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 1: really have leaned into the work.

552
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

553
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: I love the way you frame all of that.

554
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: I mean it's like we look at Mike Nichols stuff,

555
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, It's like it's all very

556
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 2: you know, specific, and every word is intentional and so

557
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: that's why it's like there's no throwaway lines or words

558
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: or glances, and you know, everything has meaning and so

559
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: there can always be a conversation after saying, oh, this

560
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: isn't work. And also, but I get real, like if

561
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,480
Speaker 2: we say a word twice, it's like, always say this

562
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: word twice in the sentence, like that was five different work,

563
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: or let's take that a second time you say that

564
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: out is really I mean, you can get very you know,

565
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: in the weeds about it. And that's my favorite kind

566
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 2: of stuff. We like to geek out about it and

567
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: make sure a scene really feels like its own little symphony.

568
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. How as you you know, you moved

569
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: out very wisely. You used your last semester, well, you

570
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: made sure you didn't like create a little environment and

571
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 1: then dip out, which, which, by the way, I get

572
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: like I was fortunate. You know, my first show was

573
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: on for nine years, but it was on in a

574
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: small town in North Carolina. So when people are like, hey,

575
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: do you know, I'm like, y'all, I don't really know anybody.

576
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: Like I have my friends that I meet in like

577
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: our ways where the artists that are the activists come together,

578
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'll connect you to anybody I know,

579
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: but I probably don't know the person you're trying to

580
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: talk to.

581
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like one of those things I love.

582
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: You know, that's changed a little bit over the more

583
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: recent years, but like I love that you had the

584
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: wherewithal even as a student to say, oh, I'm going

585
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: to make sure I do this well. I'm going to

586
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: make sure the rhythm I established for my life here continues.

587
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: You know, I know how hard it is for women

588
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: in our industry, and you are a brilliant I mean, like,

589
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: I just I think you are a genius. But like,

590
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: let's be real, this is also America and you are

591
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: a black, queer woman.

592
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

593
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: Do you think you've just had such a strong vision

594
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: and voice that there was no way anything was going

595
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: to get in your way? Or were you able to

596
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 1: see the obstacles that so many women and so many

597
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: women of color and so many queer folks in our

598
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: industry face and just say like, that's not going to

599
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: catch me, that's not going to slow me down.

600
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: Like.

601
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: Because you've done it. And I just like knowing all

602
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: the things that get added onto the inhibitors list in

603
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: an industry like ours. For you, I'm like, how'd you

604
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: do it? Tell all the queer babies how to do it?

605
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: Well, Look, it's it's it's all about perception, because it's

606
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: about and if you see being black and being a

607
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: woman and being queer as something that'll hold you back,

608
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 2: it will. And so for me, they the three things

609
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 2: the way in which I was born. It's almost like

610
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 2: taking credit for being right handed, but it's they really

611
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: propelled me forward because I'm not all these things. I

612
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: don't think ase these casts me to play. He doesn't

613
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: switch it up and go actually more interesting?

614
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? Does he see you? Does Spielberg see you

615
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: like you?

616
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: F're like you're interesting? Yeah? You know, and I haven't

617
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 2: really seen you before. And clearly I women like myself

618
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: have existed, you know, theod's masks, aggressive, whatever you want

619
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 2: to call us, we exist have always had, but I

620
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: came along at a time where people were willing to say, Okay,

621
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: we'll give you, you know, the space. And people that

622
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 2: did do that were Alan Yang A Zas in terms

623
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: of putting me in front of the camera. Yeah, Michael

624
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: Shure as well, and then obviously Steven Spielberg and Allison

625
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: and also credited Alison Jones, who is really should take

626
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: most of the credit for my acting career, because she

627
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: saw the pilot presentation for twenties, which I was not

628
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 2: in but thought was interesting, and asked me to come

629
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: to our office and I did, and I sat across

630
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: from her. We had a wonderful conversation about just TV

631
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: and the history of it, and she just asked me

632
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: if I had I have any interest in being on

633
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: camera and I said I haven't, and she said, okay, well,

634
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 2: let he's bring you in for some stuff here and there,

635
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: and she did. Career really began and so and that,

636
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: and that was really her kind of having you know,

637
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 2: this is a white woman who has been doing this

638
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 2: for EON's. I mean, she cast freaks and geeks, she

639
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: cast she cast fresh Prince Bell that like she's someone

640
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: who can look at somebody and go, I think you

641
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: should be on television, and she did that, and so

642
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 2: I think, but that happened by me doing my writing thing,

643
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 2: by me saying people don't really get what twenty's is.

644
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 2: So justin Simeon, who was just over here yesterday, who

645
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: created Dear White People, he was like, yo, I did

646
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: a pilot. I did a we did a fake trailer

647
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: for Dear White People, And he was like, let's do

648
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: a pilot presentation for twenty so people can see what

649
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: you're doing. Put it on YouTube. Put it on YouTube.

650
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 2: And Alison Jones saw, you know, and she was like,

651
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 2: who made this? And I went in and sat with

652
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: her and she started bringing me in for stuff and

653
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 2: she's when Alice when disease was like, who should I meet?

654
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,439
Speaker 2: Who should be in this show? Like you should meet

655
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: me away, Damn, that's so cool. That's the thing. It's

656
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 2: like me being my authentic self is why. And that's

657
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: why I think that in the Emmy speech at residents

658
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: to people like it's the things that make you different,

659
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: those are your super Yeah. So I think we've been

660
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 2: taught as societies the things that make us different, because

661
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: sometimes when you're oppressed, oppression becomes a part of your

662
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 2: identity and so and that's how people want it. Because

663
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: as long as I'm like, well, no, I'm black, I'm gay,

664
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: I'm a woman, things are going to be bad. It's

665
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: gonna be rough. It's like, I'm not, you know, an idiot.

666
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 2: I know where I live and I know the country

667
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: I'm in, but yeah, I also know that it is

668
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: these things about me that make me unlike anyone else,

669
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: and it gives me a different perspective.

670
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: I think it's amazing when you choose to carry your

671
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: magic as magic instead of as something that might need protecting.

672
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: Like you're you're you're talking about the energy of your identity,

673
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: and like I think it's it's all over not only

674
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: your career, but you as a person. Like there's a

675
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: reason when we all walk in a room people are like, hey,

676
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: I love watching people see you. I'm just like, yeah,

677
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: she's so fucking cool, and like I love it. I

678
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: love it because you're right. People will tell us all

679
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: the things we're not supposed to be or the ways

680
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: we're supposed to make ourselves smaller, and it's like.

681
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean well, and also that's that's uh,

682
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: that's on purpose.

683
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, Oh you mean people might be intimidated

684
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: by your magic.

685
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: You don't say, Well, it's like I think society tells

686
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: you to try to fit in, Yeah, all the things

687
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: that you need to feel better about yourself. Yeah, Because

688
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 2: you know, we also live in a capitalist society. So

689
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: if you think you need something to be happy, that

690
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: you'll constantly be on the hamster wheel. And so I think, yeah,

691
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: Like for me, I'm just like no, I'm really pleased

692
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 2: with you know, who I'm becoming and who I am.

693
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: And I see so men particularly, you know, women particularly

694
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: are told this is how you should be and this

695
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,279
Speaker 2: is what is how I'm supposed to go and this

696
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 2: is by this age. And if you don't did that,

697
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: and so you start to believe you know what people

698
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: are saying. And when you really kind of step back

699
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 2: and go like, well, says who? If you say says

700
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 2: a few times a day, you'll start to kind of realize, like,

701
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 2: we know, if I need to do what society tells

702
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: me I'm supposed to do, because oftentimes those that make

703
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: the most change and live the most bountiful lives are

704
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: those that kind of go against what society told them

705
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: they are supposed to.

706
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: Do I like that? Says Who. It's a nice little mantra.

707
00:36:58,280 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: Two works, says Who.

708
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: Was it like stepping in the Master of None? I mean,

709
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,280
Speaker 1: obviously you won an Emmy, like it was the whole

710
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: thing was so incredible to watch.

711
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: Were you.

712
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: Did you feel like I'm just going to take this

713
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: leap as an actor and see what happens. Were you

714
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: going to folks like were you sitting there being like

715
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 1: everybody tell me, like what do I need to know?

716
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: Or did you feel ready from all the writing?

717
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 2: I honestly didn't know what I was jumping into. I mean,

718
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 2: as these didn't even have a name for the thing,

719
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: Like it was like, oh wow, the first season, like

720
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 2: we will sit at that. And I would always tell

721
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 2: him like just call these he's a sorry show, and

722
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: he was just like no, because that's not really it.

723
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 2: And I'm actually really you know, I think he was

724
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 2: smart to not do that. I think actually was right.

725
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 2: But but I just had always been a fan of

726
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 2: his his stand up. I love Parks and Rec still

727
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 2: to this day obsess. I was always more of a

728
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 2: girl me too. Yeah, it's weird. It's like there are

729
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: two people. It's like either you like Parks to say, like,

730
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 2: if you're a Parks AREC person, there's so much about

731
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 2: your personality. It's like it means you're an eternal optimist

732
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: and you're probably a little off the beaten path.

733
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: You're a little nuts in a good way.

734
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think if you like office, your cynical

735
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: but yet kind, you know. And I think if you're

736
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: a Parks on a Rec person, like you're just you

737
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: marched a video on drum Man and and I love

738
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: that show, and I loved, you know, what Amy did

739
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: for you know, disease with that, you know, and like

740
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 2: putting him in that space and having him be what

741
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 2: he needed to be on that show. And then you know,

742
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, the kids grow up and you

743
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 2: kind of go, all right, I'm gonna do my own thing.

744
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: And I see him and Alan Yang, who was writing

745
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: on Parks of Wrec obviously at the time, and obviously

746
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 2: Michael Shore. So I just love that you have people

747
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 2: from Parks and Wreck that that trifecta and Okay, we're

748
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: gonna do this, so we're gonna see what this feels like.

749
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: And so for me, I was just excited that they

750
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: were like kind of it was almost like they were

751
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 2: making their own band, like they were a part of

752
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 2: the popular band that people knew and recognized the music,

753
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: and they were like all right, we're gonna go over here,

754
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: and people are like, all right, what's this about to be?

755
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: And it's like they made three amazing albums, which I

756
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 2: can considered the three seasons. The first season, which was

757
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 2: just like what is this? The second season, obviously I

758
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: was really grateful I got to have my own sort

759
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 2: of you know, my own platform really, and then season three,

760
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 2: which a Z's and I just kind of really went

761
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 2: balls to the wall, like he just started to he

762
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 2: directed everything you see, and I was like number one

763
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: in the call sheet, which was a lesson that I

764
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, I don't know if I necessarily won't

765
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 2: do this, Yes it's a lesson, yeah, me and men.

766
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 2: But it was just it was it's such a it

767
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: was like Camelot, you know, it was a learning space.

768
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: It was a free space and for us to win.

769
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: And I was standing writing in the comedy series two

770
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 2: years in a row, you know. I think that's why

771
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 2: the time the third season came around, posted Siga us

772
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 2: like they were like, okay, we get but they people

773
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: come up to me all the time and talk to

774
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: me about that third season and say, like I was

775
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: changed by it or it was it meant so much

776
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: to me in terms of what you guys were dealing with.

777
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: So I'm really And also it's this thing that kind

778
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: of just exists, like we could always come back, you know,

779
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: ten years from now because these feels like it and

780
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 2: if we have something to say. But we really grew

781
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: up doing that show a lot, you know, behind the

782
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 2: scenes and in front of the you know, on camera

783
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: as well. But it's just a special show that just

784
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: exists and lives in this moment in time. And I'm

785
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: really honored that I got to be not just a

786
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 2: part of it, but to really help build it, to

787
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 2: help this show, to shape it so much. Yeah to people,

788
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: because it definitely means a lot to me. And the

789
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: fact that people go back and revisit it, it's like

790
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 2: that's God's own gifts.

791
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, That's that's That's the kind of thing that I

792
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: hope to be lucky enough to make in this sort

793
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: of like phase two of career. Like I'm so grateful

794
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: for the I've gotten to do, don't get me wrong, Like,

795
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, working in this industry as a dream, but

796
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 1: like there is a little bit of a different thing

797
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: when you do a long running thing on a network

798
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: and watching y'all do that was was really special. It's

799
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 1: it's it's always cool to me as an artist when

800
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 1: I get to watch something that reminds me of why

801
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:21,479
Speaker 1: I love my job.

802
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, me too. Yeah, I mean I think Baby

803
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: Reindeer was that for a lot of people too. Kind

804
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: of saw that and thought, oh wow, TV can be

805
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 2: this again. Yes, it's still in there, still there, We're

806
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 2: still here.

807
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. When you

808
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: talk about being you know, you're coming into season seven

809
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: on the Shy, Like, what is it like now to

810
00:41:55,400 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: be that long into a project that you've created, Because

811
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: it is, as you say, it's gift and it's a

812
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 1: big world to have to run. So how do you

813
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: like On the one hand, you want to keep these

814
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 1: you know, storylines engaging for your viewers, and there's pressure

815
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: to always maintain, you know, a level of excellence on

816
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: your projects. And on the other hand, it's like seven

817
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: years in, it's a it's a big I don't want

818
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: to say a weight that makes it sound negative, but

819
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,800
Speaker 1: like it's big. It's just a big thing, you know,

820
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 1: to have in the bag, Like, how how do you

821
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: keep it feeling fresh for yourself as a creative so

822
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: that you can continue to bring that that kind of

823
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: new magic seven years in. No.

824
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: I think it's a really good question. And I think

825
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: what I recently started to think about it in this

826
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: way is that every season is like an album m

827
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 2: and so when you think about some of your favorite artists,

828
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: you know, every album is different. It speaks to where

829
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,879
Speaker 2: they are in their lives and what they're thinking about,

830
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 2: what they're listening to, and and so that's what That's

831
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 2: the way it remains exciting for me is that when

832
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 2: we go into the writer's room, it's like going into

833
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 2: the studio and go, okay, we got a fresh pad

834
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 2: the kay before? What now? What? What where are we at? Now?

835
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: What do we want to talk about? Now? You know?

836
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: What are some characters? We get to play musical chairs

837
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: a little bit with the with the characters and kind

838
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 2: of figure out all, right, who do we want what

839
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: do we want to get into? And that to me

840
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: is the most exciting is the beginning of every you know,

841
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: writers room season, because it's sort of like all right,

842
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: it's a new beginning, and then it's about you know,

843
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 2: finding these new moments. And I also think of every

844
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 2: episode as a track of an album. So it's like

845
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: every track isn't necessarily supposed to be a Billboard one hundred.

846
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: You know, some episodes are supposed to be sleepers. B sides. Uh,

847
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 2: you know one of those songs you can't get out

848
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 2: of your head. And that's really how I try to

849
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: approach it. It is like music. And the thing about

850
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 2: it is what I think has kept people coming back

851
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: with the shot is that no season is like the

852
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: one before it. Yeah, because we aren't the same and

853
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 2: the actors are in a different space, and you know,

854
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 2: we want to come back and be fresh, and that

855
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: is that's the thing is, it's challenging yourself to not

856
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 2: be the same. Here's like you got to be new,

857
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: and that means we as people have to evolve, We

858
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 2: have to grow, and our lives do evolve. In me,

859
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: we had two women in our writers room be pregnant

860
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 2: last season. They were both pregnant and so now they

861
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: don't have babies now, and so it's like we go

862
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: to the new season, it's just sort of like, oh,

863
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 2: their lives are evolving and changing, and they're bringing that

864
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: into the writer's room. So anyone that kind of wants like,

865
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 2: can you make it like the first two seasons? Or

866
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 2: I really like that season four, I realized season five

867
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: it's like that is gone about where we are now.

868
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 2: And also it speaks to society because you do have

869
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,720
Speaker 2: friends in your life who are always evolving, always always

870
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 2: trying to find themselves. And then there's some friends that

871
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 2: are like, I'm good, this is me, this is who

872
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: I am. I'm not changing. You can take it or

873
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,479
Speaker 2: leave it, and both ways of walking through the world

874
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 2: are valid. But it's just a matter of who would

875
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 2: you rather go on the journey of life with someone

876
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 2: who is constantly searching for truth, but someone that thinks

877
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: they've already found it.

878
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in a group a yeah, same.

879
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 2: I'm always searching. Yeah, and some people aren't. And that's okay, yeah,

880
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 2: you know, but I think I can't be making a

881
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: TV show and not be always self interrogating, because if

882
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: I start to think I got it, I know what's up,

883
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,360
Speaker 2: I figured it out, the work will start to reflect

884
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,399
Speaker 2: that and not do well.

885
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you think you've already figured

886
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: it out. Then you're doing your series finale and the

887
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 1: show's over, Like, what more do you have to explore

888
00:45:59,080 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: if you're not.

889
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 2: Exploring, always exploring, always finding new things, trying to like,

890
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 2: you know, just keep digging.

891
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So is this what led us to the podcast?

892
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: No, the podcast really came about because I was like,

893
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 2: we need another podcast in this world, like we need

894
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 2: so I said, what is my version of that? And

895
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: but Justin Riley, who's been a friend of mine forever,

896
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 2: who actually had a podcast way way back in the

897
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 2: day before they were popular. He he was telling me,

898
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 2: he was like, Lena, you are such a good conversationalist,

899
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 2: like you should like get into this game and you

900
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 2: should talk to people. But I was like, but who

901
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 2: am I talking to and why and what's going on?

902
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 2: And then that's where legacy Talk was sort of born,

903
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: where it was more about than I talked to black

904
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: women in particular whose legacies have impacted mine. And that's

905
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 2: what we can list where it is Gina Prince, Bythewood,

906
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 2: Charlie Ralph mar Rockakeeel, Jada Pinkett, Jennifer Lewis, And that's

907
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: what not least it's gonna be Debbie Allen and so

908
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: I had these just phenomenal conversations and it's an rip

909
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,479
Speaker 2: and Nicki Giovanni, may she rest in peace. But there's

910
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 2: this beautiful conversation. If you haven't seen it, I implore

911
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 2: you to see it, especially now, a conversation between Nikki

912
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 2: Giovanni and James Baldwin that was filed in London. I think,

913
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: oh man, like in the seventies, because like Nikki Jima

914
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 2: really young, just like just like a young poet artist

915
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 2: at the time. And then Baldwin is Baldwin, but he

916
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 2: at this point she's written enough things where he knows

917
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 2: who she is and respects her. And yeah, and it's

918
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:40,600
Speaker 2: just a stunning conversation. And I stumbled upon it when

919
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 2: I was wrapping up, you know, production on Queen and

920
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: Slim and just it just blown away by these two

921
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: people talking about everything about about life, about you know,

922
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 2: the church and being black and men and women, and

923
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 2: it is a conversation you can watch again and again

924
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: and again, and it is. It was a conversation also

925
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 2: that was orchestrated by a phenomenal queer black man named

926
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:09,240
Speaker 2: Ellis Haslip. And you haven't seen this documentary it's on HBO.

927
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: Max called Soul Explanation Point, which was a series that

928
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: he did in the seventies that was on public television

929
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: and it was just a beautiful show that that highlighted

930
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 2: black artists at the time and revolutionary conversations. And so

931
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: he was friends with Nikki Giovanni and he asked her,

932
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: who do you want to speak to? And she's like,

933
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 2: I want to talk to j Baldwin. And he's like, oh,

934
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 2: I can make that happen. He's living in London right now.

935
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: Don't worry, just me taking notes, please do.

936
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 2: And so he put this, so this, this amazing queer

937
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,839
Speaker 2: black man put this, this, this conversation together that would

938
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 2: be filmed and recorded that I would later find, you know.

939
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: I was like sitting in the hotel room in New

940
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 2: Orleans and watched it and just was just really blessed

941
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 2: by it. And anyone that watched this conversation will be

942
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 2: blessed by it because of such mutual respect, so much nuanced,

943
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 2: so much understanding their light bulb moments on both sides

944
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: that are happening. They're truly listening to each other and

945
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 2: respecting each other. And so I always love that dialogue

946
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,959
Speaker 2: and I wanted to have dialogue like that with people

947
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 2: who were elders of mine. You know, I think I

948
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 2: definitely relate to Nicky's body in that conversation. Yeah, talking

949
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: to an elder, talking to somebody's respects, and she, you know,

950
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 2: wouldn't be where she is in that moment without the

951
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 2: work that he'd already done. And so and that's really

952
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 2: what kind of spoke to me about it. I said,

953
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,439
Speaker 2: how can we record and document these conversations for people

954
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 2: to have, for people to reference, for people to be

955
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 2: blessed by. And so that's when we really to talk

956
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: with Leena ways was sort of born.

957
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that and I didn't know that.

958
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've ever told you the whole Aha.

959
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: The light bulb moment for me to do this show

960
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: was sitting in a gathering of all the incredible women

961
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: we know. I was in Glorious Dyinem's living room talking

962
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: about how these intergenerational, diverse, brilliant groups of women we're

963
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: going to continue to push for progress.

964
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 2: And I was like.

965
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: The privilege of my life to be in this room,

966
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: Like if I could have told, you know, little twenty

967
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: year old me in Christopher Smith's class at the Annenberg

968
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: School of Journalism that I would be texting with Glorious

969
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: Dynams sitting in her.

970
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 2: Living room, like what yet, I'm a leader too, She's.

971
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: It's like that thing of what we get to do

972
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: as people with a platform that you can give these

973
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 1: conversations away. It's like one of the only still free

974
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,759
Speaker 1: spaces of media for folks. Like I think it's so

975
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: beautiful and it kind of like weirdly makes me want

976
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: to cry that you were like, oh, these are the

977
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: conversations I want to record so other people can access them,

978
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: because not everybody's going to get to sit with Debbie

979
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,520
Speaker 1: Allen or Shirley Ralph, but they can listen to you

980
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: do it.

981
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: And that.

982
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: Like the legacy of that, the gift of that to

983
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: the world. I don't I don't take lightly. I think

984
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: it's beautiful.

985
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 2: I don't take it lightly that I appreciate that and

986
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 2: the fact that it's accessible, fact put it up on YouTube,

987
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: watch or listen. That's what I take it very seriously,

988
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 2: you know, I think I don't want to just and

989
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: even I think it's our conversations. We we we'll sit

990
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 2: out for a couple hours and we'll kind of cut

991
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 2: them down to about forty you know, minutes to get

992
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 2: rid of all the space and and things that you

993
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 2: kind of don't need. And I think there's people are

994
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: so used to those three hour you know type of way,

995
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 2: which is like look to teach his own But I'm

996
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,439
Speaker 2: just to me, I want to get to the meet

997
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: and I want to be specific and I want to

998
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 2: I want to really get some some clarity on things

999
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 2: and ask very specific questions. So I know, folks, the

1000
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 2: only asked, which is a beautiful gift. Can they be longer?

1001
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: Can they be longer? And I'm just like no, like,

1002
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 2: we are going to give you a finite amount of

1003
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: information and we're gonna not then We're not going to

1004
00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 2: talk about every project they've ever done. We're going to

1005
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: talk about projects that meant something to me that I think,

1006
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 2: you know, we should discuss in this conversation. Are curated conversations.

1007
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: They're not these long like four hours just sitting there

1008
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 2: so we're talking like tell me when your mother grew up. No,

1009
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 2: It's like with Shelley Route, we started writing at dream Girls,

1010
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 2: and I think it kind of because she was like, oh,

1011
00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: you're not going to warm up to this, I'm like, no,

1012
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 2: like the audition process for dream Girl, so like wow,

1013
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 2: that like you know, and she's like like crazy, Like

1014
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: I thought I was good. I was good. I was

1015
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: like okay, you know, and because I want to start

1016
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: really where the flagship thing is for them, you know,

1017
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,439
Speaker 2: and then go from there and you talk about where

1018
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 2: what the most famous thing is that they're known for now.

1019
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 2: I love that you had to go from dream Girls

1020
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,160
Speaker 2: to Avid Elementary was pretty cool.

1021
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 1: Hand incredible. I finally I got to meet her at

1022
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: Wicked Oh, and was like, oh my god, she's unbelievable.

1023
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: She gave me a box of she gave Charlie Harveston

1024
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: and I and he addressed her but never met her.

1025
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: They had done everything virtually, and so with the three

1026
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: of us we were just and they were hugging and

1027
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: it was so sweet. And then I don't know where

1028
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: they came from, but she magically had snacks and there

1029
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: were no snacks anywhere, and she gave us a box

1030
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: of peanut Eminem's And if you think I did not

1031
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,880
Speaker 1: have that box on my kitchen counter for like three weeks,

1032
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 1: I was like, nobody touched that. That was for miss

1033
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: Cheryl for nobody touch it so fun who do you

1034
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: who do you go to? Because you know you are

1035
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: a mentor, you are a curious person, you are you

1036
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: are a person who can you know, sit with your

1037
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 1: elders to ask all these questions to who do you

1038
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,880
Speaker 1: go to when you need advice? Like who's the person

1039
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: you call for feedback?

1040
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, that's sucks pretty you know, like Debbie Allen

1041
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 2: for sure, Jada Pinkett, h Rashida Jones about anything life career.

1042
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: You can ask Ratia Jones about anything under the sun

1043
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 2: and she'll have a really good answer. Yeah, Like those

1044
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: are definitely the you know, Gina prins By. It's so

1045
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:25,920
Speaker 2: funny that the people I sat down across from, Man,

1046
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 2: it's like these these amazing women who uh always have

1047
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: wise things to offer. Yeah, for sure. Also last night,

1048
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 2: just like talking to it's and that's the thing too.

1049
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people think about mentor it's so very

1050
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,439
Speaker 2: much like you know, you think it's like the big

1051
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: chair and like sit at my feet. But it's also

1052
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 2: good sometimes just to kind of kicky with your mentors

1053
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,240
Speaker 2: and laugh and and and see them as human beings

1054
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,680
Speaker 2: as well. I think that's so nice.

1055
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: When you get to have the that kind of like

1056
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 1: meedness about work, but when it's not just about work,

1057
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: when you get to like be with your peopil, it's

1058
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: really refreshing. I did the most embarrassing thing at the

1059
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: last Grays table read, because, like I mean, Debbie Allen

1060
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: is like, she's Debbie Alan, she is an icon. I

1061
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: met her like once at an award show I don't know,

1062
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: five years before the pandemic. So I walked up to

1063
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: her and I was like, I am just so thrilled

1064
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: to be here. I said, Debbie, it's so nice to

1065
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 1: meet you. I'm Sophia Bush. And she looked at me

1066
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: like my grandmother used to and goes, no, she like

1067
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,759
Speaker 1: it was so sweet. She just she looked at me

1068
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: like I was nuts. And I was like, I was like,

1069
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: but but you're Debbie Allen. So on the off chant

1070
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: there's eighty six people here, I'm going to introduce myself

1071
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 1: to you because you are Debbie Allan.

1072
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 2: She kid get out of here, an icon. That's what

1073
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 2: gets me every time, because I'm obviously upset. Yes doesn't

1074
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 2: do it, she just doesn't. Yeah it does, she doesn't. Bothered.

1075
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:14,359
Speaker 1: No, no, unbelievable. You wanted to talk about the book, Oh.

1076
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 2: Ray Hansburbury, what I must tell the world How Loraene

1077
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 2: Hansbury found her voice? Words by j Leslie Pictures about

1078
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:28,279
Speaker 2: love is wise, very very grateful, Uh that we have

1079
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,319
Speaker 2: this book coming out for kids of all ages. We're

1080
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 2: going to be talking about this book a lot more

1081
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 2: and pulling up to New York this month's and talk

1082
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 2: to Sherry Shepherd about it. Yeah. It's a cool, cool,

1083
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 2: cool Christmas gift put under the tree kids alike, rain Hands.

1084
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 2: Very amazing woman out of South side of Chicago.

1085
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, what inspired you to get involved in the children's book.

1086
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: Well, we were doing some work with Zando. We have

1087
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 2: home and Grab books and we actually didn't think we're

1088
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 2: gonna do the children's book. We like that wasn't on

1089
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,720
Speaker 2: the Bingo card, but it just sort of came about

1090
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 2: and we and obviously I'm a big note Loraine Hansbury,

1091
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 2: just you know, obsessed, always being from Chicago, hearing about her.

1092
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 2: Obviously Raising the Sun was her similar work. Died at

1093
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: thirty four, and she just changed the world through her voice,

1094
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 2: through words on the page. And she was the youngest

1095
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 2: black play right not even black, the youngest play right

1096
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: ever to have a show on Broadway, to have a

1097
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 2: play on Broadway, and the first black person to have

1098
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: a play on Broadway. And then Jordian Cooper became the

1099
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,080
Speaker 2: youngest play rights ever have a show on Broadway with

1100
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: eight No More. He vested her about a few years.

1101
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 2: But I also think it's very beautiful in that, even

1102
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 2: him being a queer black play right as well. It's

1103
00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: just it's it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful history.

1104
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 2: I wanted to play a small part in over a

1105
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 2: No Mo but Verin Hansbury is someone who was just

1106
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 2: a seed that became a tree, so many branches that

1107
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 2: the fruit that come off that tree. I think I

1108
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 2: get to be one of those pieces of fruit. That's

1109
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 2: how powerful her legacy is and will continue to be.

1110
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: And so it's important for me that people know who

1111
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 2: she was and who she still is. You know, even

1112
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 2: though someone is on earth'side anymore, it doesn't mean their

1113
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 2: presence is no longer felt. So I hope you could

1114
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: to get this book and read about her and learn

1115
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: about her and continue to tell the world about who

1116
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: she was and how she changed it.

1117
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: Yes, well, it's interesting, right, She's not Earth's side. You

1118
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 1: can't sit down with her on legacy talks. But in

1119
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: a way, her legacy is still fucking still still going

1120
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: to teach the babies.

1121
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,800
Speaker 2: Still teaching. Yes, So that's that's part of my legacy

1122
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 2: is to carry hers forward. Truth.

1123
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: I love it. I mean I could sit in Kiki

1124
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 1: with you for the next three hours.

1125
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 2: But like you have things now, we could have one

1126
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 2: of those those pockets, just like three and a half.

1127
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: We should, but not on the record. Maybe we just

1128
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: have it in like life. But this is my favorite

1129
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:01,960
Speaker 1: question to ask everybody who comes on the show. But

1130
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: the New year energy makes it maybe feel more sparkly

1131
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 1: as you look out at what's to come for you

1132
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: this year, whether it's something you know, professional or personal,

1133
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 1: or maybe it's a hybrid of both. What feels like

1134
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: your work in progress.

1135
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 2: Myself, you know, as a human, and me stepping into

1136
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:33,040
Speaker 2: the theater space in this way. I've obviously I produced

1137
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 2: a play Ain't No More written by Jordan Cooper, but

1138
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 2: this I've you know, trying my hand at writing my

1139
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: first play. I want to be in it and it

1140
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:53,040
Speaker 2: is it's just it's so nerve wrecking, exciting, and fear

1141
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 2: inducing in the best way, and and it's also just humbling.

1142
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 2: Yeah you And so that's just that's the that's that's

1143
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 2: the that's the energy I want to be in. I

1144
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 2: think all twenty twenty five, you know, especially as we

1145
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 2: enter into this new this new era, you know, this

1146
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:16,520
Speaker 2: new presidency, it's really about what are you? What do

1147
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 2: you have control over? And what do you accept? Mm hmm.

1148
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: You know, let's practice radical acceptance and also be radical

1149
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 2: in the art that we're doing.

1150
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the storytelling is going to it's going to

1151
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: matter more than ever again mm hmmm. Yeah, hm, absolutely.

1152
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 2: I always love somebody as James Baldwin. Are you a

1153
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 2: revolutionary writer? He said, I'm a writer in revolutionary times.

1154
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: M hm exactly. Yeah.

1155
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: I mean the artist's job is to be in the

1156
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,439
Speaker 1: world and tell the truth about it, right.

1157
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, reflect the time, and also tell their truth. Everybody

1158
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: has their own version of the truth. M I always

1159
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 2: sa everybody thinks they're right.

1160
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1161
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 2: I really like a.

1162
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: Sort of descriptor that my therapist gave me. He was like,

1163
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: there's going to be your truth and this person's truth,

1164
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: and then there's going to be the truth somewhere in

1165
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 1: between the two, and sometimes it'll be closer to the

1166
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: your edge of the ruler, and sometimes it'll be closer

1167
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: to the other persons. And I think that's an important

1168
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: thing to remember. And when you talk about how we

1169
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,920
Speaker 1: do what we do and and the requirement to be

1170
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: humbled over and over again by it, like you got

1171
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 1: to make space for a sliding scale of of reality

1172
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: and then go and tell yours. I think that's really

1173
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:50,640
Speaker 1: it's powerful.

1174
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's just it's it's a you know, it's a responsibility.

1175
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 2: And I think that's why we can't be lazy in

1176
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 2: the work and we can't do it glory.

1177
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, mmm, I love it. I just adore you. Thank

1178
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 1: you for coming on the show. I love you know

1179
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: the laundry list of all you do and all the

1180
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,439
Speaker 1: goodness you put in the world. You are just a gem.

1181
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you for being so amazing and just

1182
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 2: being a true ally and a beacon of hope. You

1183
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 2: know it means a lot.

1184
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:28,520
Speaker 1: Thank you. I will receive that kindness. Thank you so

1185
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:29,919
Speaker 1: much for sure.