1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: We start this, I'm Holly Fry. For some reason, my 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: brain was like, why didn't she say birthday after you 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: said happy? It's nobody's birthday. No, just the way you 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: let in with happy, I'm like birthday. I'm also just like, 7 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: how do we normally kick off our Friday minisodes. It's 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: been a strange a strange week, strange week in our 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: lives as of when we're recording this, and we don't 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: know what the week will have been like when this 11 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: comes out. But we talked about olamp de Gouge. Yes, 12 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: I did the thing where I was like, I should 13 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: thank people who have have suggested this topic, and there 14 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: were so so so many. Uh, it's she's somebody that 15 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: has been on my list for a really long time, 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: and then they're kept being things that made me go 17 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: I just can't. I can't talk about somebody getting guillotined 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: right now. Um. And then when I started working on 19 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: this and there was an attack on the Capitol, I 20 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: was like, it's too late. I can't get away from 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: the guillotine into deep. Yeah, yeah, I did not have 22 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: time to switch switch tracks on this one. I did 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: not know that there was all the stuff I said 24 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the episode about how, um like, 25 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: she's most famous for the Declaration of the Rights of Women, 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: but that wasn't actually what led to her execution, and 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: that also was like just one tiny thing of her 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: other work, Like I did not know anything about any 29 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: of the rest of that, right. Uh, it's interesting, you know, 30 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: her Declaration of the Rights of Women made me think, 31 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: of course about the Declaration of Sentiments. Oh yeah, but 32 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: just to keep because they're similarly modeled after an original document, 33 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: switching out language pretty carefully. But it's interesting to note 34 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: that hers you know, predates that one by almost sixty years. 35 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: Seneca Women's Convention was eighteen forty eight. I think that 36 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: sounds right, So I have to naturally wonder if they 37 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: were at least in part inspired by that. Yeah. It 38 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: it also came out just a year before Mary Wolston 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: Craft's Vindication on the Rights of Women. Um so like 40 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: there was there was a lat going on that was 41 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: she was just part of the early parts of I 42 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: found the lack of depth and clarity about her biography 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: a little frustrating. That happens a lot of the time 44 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,799 Speaker 1: when we're talking about people from the long ago past. Um, 45 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: Like when we're talking about somebody from the eleventh century 46 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: and we're like, we don't know anything about their biography 47 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: at all, that's not particularly surprising. But for somebody as 48 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: relatively recent as Olmpta Goog it was a little frustrating. Um. 49 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: There is a website that is Olampa Googe dot eu 50 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: that has English translations of a ton of her stuff. 51 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: So in terms of reading English translations of her written work, 52 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: there is a lot more available in English on that 53 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: score than there is, like in depth analysis of her biography. Right, 54 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: maybe some answering of some of the questions about things 55 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: about her life, right. I I also in reading this over. 56 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: I looked this over this morning before we started recording, 57 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: and I was reminded of a thing I'm trying to 58 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: think of the best way to talk about this, that 59 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: I overheard in a hotel bar in l A back 60 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: when traveling happened, which is this whole thing about her 61 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: writing and whether or not she was the daughter of 62 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: the Marquis de Pompignan. I was sitting in this bar, 63 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: and I was overhearing these people next to me, and 64 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: this young woman who seemed lovely was having all kinds 65 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: of conversations. But I noticed like she met with several 66 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: different people while we were there, so I don't like. 67 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: One seemed to be like a friend that stopped by 68 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: for drinks, one was like a quick business thing, and 69 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: then one might have been a date. But at one 70 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 1: point in time she mentioned that she was the illegitimate 71 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: I hate that weird daughter of a famous person. And 72 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: it was a famous person that I have interviewed, and 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: I had this moment where I was like, I have 74 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: enough connection back to that person. I could probably check this, 75 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: but I don't know if she's just using this to 76 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: get access to something like. It was just this really 77 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: weird moment where you think about those things. Yeah, and 78 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: the fact that there are a lot of people in 79 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: the world who are not legally connected to their father's 80 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: what that means. How that plays in the modern era 81 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 1: compared to how it was playing here was not that different. 82 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: It just all gave me pause. Um, I I rewatched 83 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: the most recent Little Women on Christmas Eve, along with 84 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: the one that starred wind Owner writer. I just had 85 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: a whole marathon where I watched two different versions of 86 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: Little Women in a Row. But that scene in the 87 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: one that came out, I think in it starts off 88 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: with this scene where Joe March goes to a publisher 89 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: and is like, my friend wrote this and would like 90 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: you to look at it. UM, and that framework of 91 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: the memoir of Madam Belmont where it's like there's this 92 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: unnamed um editor who's like, I'm publishing this correspondence of 93 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: my friends were like, reminded me of that UM. So anyway, 94 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: I uh, I like Olympics. I find her just got 95 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: some contradictions that are really interesting to me. Uh in 96 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: terms of being like, yeah, women are women are pretty deceitful, 97 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: but like we were forced into that position, and then 98 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: also being like yeah, the revolution but also the monarchy, right, 99 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 1: That is all very fascinating, And I think it's another point. 100 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: I always like to point these out because I think 101 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: they're important that very very poignantly exemplifies that like, no 102 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: one is not complicated. Well, we also didn't really get 103 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: into like analyzing whether her abolitionist play was sensitive in 104 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: its treatment of race or not, or the fact that 105 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: she made comparisons between marriage and slavery. Like we have 106 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: talked on the show before and other episodes about the 107 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: feminist movement kind of appropriating the language and imagery of 108 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: slavery to talk about women's rights and how like that 109 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: really diminished the impact of the horrors of slavery in 110 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. We didn't really talk about that 111 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: in terms of Olympic at all, but that also was 112 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: like a part of her work and a part of 113 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: the world that she was in. So I'm glad I 114 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: finally finally got her off to the top of the 115 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: list after probably eight years of people asking. This week, 116 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: one of the things that we talked about was John 117 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: Dalton and his anomalous vision, which most people would call 118 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: color blindness, but it's shifting to the terminology of color 119 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: vision deficiency for accuracy's sake. I love this whole thing, 120 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: as you obviously could tell um. The whole time I 121 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: was researching it, I was giggling at myself because my 122 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: beloved and I are both kind of artsy folks. We 123 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: get along tremendously well. The biggest arguments we have ever 124 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: had in our marriage have been about colors. Yeah, I like, 125 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: I mean, just infuriated discussions of color. There is one 126 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: pair of pants that, like, thank goodness, it has gone 127 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: from our lives that I always said was slate blue 128 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: and he always said was black that had just faded. 129 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: And we would argue bicker over this stupid pair of 130 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: pants and what color it was for a ridiculous amount 131 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: of time. Two artsy people arguing about color is no 132 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: fun for anybody because they both have incredible conviction in 133 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: their beliefs. It's very funny people have such strong connections 134 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 1: to color. I mean I I thought about this with 135 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: John Dalton, and it's a question we can never know 136 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: because he never really said I were I like, I 137 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: did he have a favorite color? I don't know. As 138 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: a scientist, he seems to have been, you know, like 139 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: he'll talk about which ones are pleasant. But so many 140 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: of us get so attached to a color and it 141 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: makes me chuckle. I know, your favorite color is blue. Yeah. 142 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: I've been playing a lot of animal Crossing and every 143 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: time I buy stuff, you know, in the Able Sister store, 144 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: it's like the blue one. My entire animal Crossing wardrobe 145 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: was just blue blue blue blue blue blue blue. Uh. 146 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: And sometimes we'll be like, I'm gonna get the pink 147 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 1: one because my entire wardrobe is blue. UM. I wanted 148 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: to know that, Like, there there are a lot of 149 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: accessibility issues that are related to color vision, Like there 150 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,559 Speaker 1: are websites that are anywhere between ugly and just unusable 151 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: depending on how they use color. UM. I have a 152 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: friend who he's he's always used the word color blind, 153 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: but he has color vision deficiency and is also a 154 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,359 Speaker 1: game designer, and we'll talk about how games are sometimes 155 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: just not playable at all because they have used colors 156 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: to signify different things, Like you just you can't tell 157 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: if that card belongs to one group or another because 158 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: the colors that were used on it cannot be distinguished 159 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: by people with particular color vision deficiencies. It relates to 160 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff besides oh yeah, you know, like 161 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: what color you decided to pay your house or whatever? 162 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: Right we I think we talked about it in our 163 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:23,319 Speaker 1: episode on UM the invention of traffic lights. There's I 164 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: don't remember if it came up any episode or if 165 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: it was in a listener mail where there's a kind 166 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: of famous one that's inverted where the red, green, and 167 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: yellow are flipped opposite of a normal traffic light, and 168 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: so for people that maybe have color vision deficiency and 169 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: have learned that spatially in order when they're driving, that 170 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: completely screws them up. That's uh, don't do that, municipality, 171 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: whenever flipped your traffic lights. I think most municipalities know that. Um. Yeah. 172 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: It gets to be interesting when I think about, like 173 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: I said, in our family, we did not know that 174 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: my dad clearly was not seeing color the same way 175 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: as the rest of us. And I think we had 176 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: a discussion at one point where I was asking him 177 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 1: questions like this about just like basic stuff that we 178 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 1: encounter every day that you're even taught as a child, 179 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: like look for this color, it means danger or whatever, 180 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: and he was like to him, stop signs. He always 181 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: learned by shape and never really thought about what color 182 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: they were, which I think is a pretty common thing. 183 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 1: But I do wonder them for children that maybe are 184 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: not aware that this is a thing that happens. Is 185 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: there just complete puzzlement when they're in classes and they're 186 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: being taught things by color as meaning when they're like, 187 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, it looks exactly like the other thing 188 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: next to it, Like I I wonder how many kids 189 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: get really confused in those moments. Yeah, so, if any 190 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: of our listeners have color vision deficiencies, shoot us an email, 191 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: because I want to hear all about it. It's one 192 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: of the things that I love about John Dalton's writing 193 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: is that he's pretty creatively descriptive about how things look 194 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: in a way that people that would not have color 195 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: vision deficiency would understand. Like when he says, like, you 196 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: know what you point to and say his bottle green 197 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: looks exactly the same to me as red. Um and 198 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't tell those two part. It's like, Oh, 199 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: that's like a really good, easy visual cue. I think 200 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: for people that that have quote unquote normal vision to 201 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: understand what's going on a little bit better. It's such 202 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: a fascinating thing because so many things happen in your 203 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: brain to process the world around you. That even so, 204 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: I always have that almost like paranoid concern that we're 205 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: all seeing everything slightly differently, even though you can take 206 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: tests on online to see if you have any color 207 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: vision anomalies or not. Um, Yeah, well, we ever really 208 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: know if we're seeing things exactly the same way. I 209 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: don't know, So thank you for spending time with us 210 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: this week. We hope that you have a wonderful, wonderful weekend. 211 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: As always, you can always subscribe to the show in 212 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, at Apple podcast or wherever it 213 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: is you listen. Stuff you Missed in History Class is 214 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from 215 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: I heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 216 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H