Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Caroline Hyde and Ed Lovelow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York.
Speaker 3: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up. Microsoft surges on the
Speaker 3: back of strong quarterly sales and profit growth despite economic uncertainty.
Speaker 4: Glass Meta also jumping on the company's ad sales laying
Speaker 4: investor fears about the impact.
Speaker 3: Of tariffs, and Apple takes an epic flow from a
Speaker 3: federal judge on its app store sales commissions as the
Speaker 3: tech giant gives up.
Speaker 2: For its own earnings later today.
Speaker 3: But first we check in on these markets which are
Speaker 3: in risk on mode.
Speaker 2: We're up more than two percent.
Speaker 3: On the nasat one hundred, best day in all of
Speaker 3: a week at the moment. As we see those earnings
Speaker 3: news flow into the sentiment, we're seeing Bitcoin also up
Speaker 3: to two point four percent. Interesting news that Morgan Stanley's e
Speaker 3: Trade might be offering bitcoin more broadly crypto to its
Speaker 3: retail investor base.
Speaker 2: That's a big one.
Speaker 3: But then dive underneath the hood, what's going on in
Speaker 3: the microha.
Speaker 4: Yeah, big technology earnings performance and metters the place to
Speaker 4: start right This is a big gain and the story
Speaker 4: really simple. Outlook of the core business for the current period,
Speaker 4: strong raising the guidance for the range and capital expenditures,
Speaker 4: commitment to advanced compute access across the company. But there
Speaker 4: is a nuance there that also the higher cost of
Speaker 4: doing business because of tariffs is having an impact. Great
Speaker 4: discussion ahead and then Microsoft waf look at the gain
Speaker 4: thirty three percent top line growth on Azure Cloud. Also
Speaker 4: discussion about the commitment to spend on data center, but
Speaker 4: there is some evidence that all of the prior investment
Speaker 4: is now materializing in the spend on their cloud business.
Speaker 5: Let's get some more Microsoft's results.
Speaker 4: Ted Mortenson, managing director at Baird thirty three percent top
Speaker 4: line Azure growth is four percent beyond what the street said.
Speaker 4: But within that there's a sixteen percent content ttribution from AI.
Speaker 4: Those too many are just numbers, but they do seem
Speaker 4: to be evidence that the investment to date is now
Speaker 4: start as translate to top line game.
Speaker 6: You nailed and thanks for having me. The bottom line
Speaker 6: of if you look at that, that's actually thirty five
Speaker 6: percent in constant currency, and what Amy Hood alluded to
Speaker 6: is most of that upside is just the Global two
Speaker 6: thousand migrating to cloud, and right now on Azora they
Speaker 6: can't even keep up with demand. On Jenni, that guide
Speaker 6: of thirty four to thirty five percent was way above
Speaker 6: the street.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about unable to satisfy current demand. There's an
Speaker 3: interesting is it caution coming from Microsoft that, look, they're
Speaker 3: willing to be underserving in terms of supply because they
Speaker 3: are starting to normalize their spend in terms of capital expenditure.
Speaker 6: I think they're trying their best to provision a lot
Speaker 6: of this next generation equipment, specifically Navidio GPUs. There is
Speaker 6: just so much much demand. If you even look at
Speaker 6: some of the metrics that open ai put out last
Speaker 6: week of having a run rate of one hundred and
Speaker 6: seventy four billion in revenues, the demand is just outstripping demand. Supply,
Speaker 6: plane and simple, and their provision of new data centers
Speaker 6: with this next generation GENAI stack infrastructure is just agents
Speaker 6: can't keep up with demand. And that's a very good
Speaker 6: problem to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so can we strip away that noise?
Speaker 3: We had note after note, analysis after analysis that in
Speaker 3: some way Microsoft was curtailing data centers, whether it be
Speaker 3: through leases or renegotiation, is that happening or is this
Speaker 3: the ebb and flow of doing business TEED.
Speaker 6: I think on the call they tried to get to
Speaker 6: the root cause of this misinformation. I think you got
Speaker 6: a lot from the Cell side that fiscal twenty six
Speaker 6: capex will moderate, it can't go at the same level
Speaker 6: at twenty four to twenty five when they were building
Speaker 6: long term assets, and they define long term assets as
Speaker 6: data with the shelf life of about fifteen years. Those
Speaker 6: are shells and the other shells that they're building, you know,
Speaker 6: they have to be hooked up to utilities. And I
Speaker 6: think the big thing that the Street was kind of
Speaker 6: missing is time to power. They are somewhat restricted on
Speaker 6: these next generation data centers just getting the power capacity
Speaker 6: needed to fuel the GENAI loads. So fiscal twenty six
Speaker 6: will moderate, it's normal. It can't grow at fifty percent
Speaker 6: plus forever. And I think where the Street maybe got
Speaker 6: it wrong with some of the analysts on the ED side,
Speaker 6: that we're picking up some weakness and you know, quite frankly,
Speaker 6: that's a good data check, but probably not put in
Speaker 6: the right context if you understand core technology and what's
Speaker 6: happening in a gentaki.
Speaker 4: Ted my relationship with Microsoft is I grew up learning
Speaker 4: how to use computer on their operating system and more
Speaker 4: recently I'm a gay. Two pieces of news out today.
Speaker 4: One Xbox price is going up because not just on
Speaker 4: the hardware, by the way.
Speaker 5: On the titles themselves, because of tariffs.
Speaker 4: But I always go to the Bloomberg terminal look at
Speaker 4: the split of cloud and just like software revenues, they're
Speaker 4: still quite good at selling software that you can otherwise
Speaker 4: get for free somewhere else.
Speaker 5: Is that fair?
Speaker 6: That's fair? And I think you know you look at
Speaker 6: you look at Microsoft, and they have a huge advantage
Speaker 6: as well as Oracle in relationship to the other cloud titans,
Speaker 6: whether it be a Meta, Google or Amazon. They already
Speaker 6: have the enterprise customer. So when you control the enterprise
Speaker 6: customer to begin with from previous revisions of whether it
Speaker 6: be you know, Excel, Word Outlook. And now you know
Speaker 6: you have a CEO Sat Nadela, which is a visionary
Speaker 6: in tech that should be at the top of the
Speaker 6: list of CEOs that actually get the migration to jenn Ai.
Speaker 6: Now you can leve entire base through Jeni. And what's
Speaker 6: different on Microsoft that I think they brought this up
Speaker 6: on previous calls is Microsoft has a Jeni steck that
Speaker 6: they've created over the last of multiple years that's extremely
Speaker 6: it's written once, it's unbelievably scalable, and when you leverage
Speaker 6: apps on top of that, you've got a model that
Speaker 6: if you can.
Speaker 5: Touch okay, you let me jump in real quick.
Speaker 4: While this is all happening, Microsoft are being contributor. The
Speaker 4: nastack's now pushing to two percent s and P five
Speaker 4: hundreds pushing higher. A big part of that, I know
Speaker 4: Microsoft's not sort of where it was at the open,
Speaker 4: but it was on track for its biggest gain since
Speaker 4: twenty twenty. And I think that for all the sort
Speaker 4: of negative sentiment around the world about cloud computing and tariffs,
Speaker 4: it's pretty astonishing moment in time in the earnings context.
Speaker 5: Isn't it. Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I think therein lies what's phenomenal about this guidance
Speaker 3: tad is the fact that we got it and what
Speaker 3: is it that we're starting to see. Is it that
Speaker 3: come despite macroeconomic headwinds. Just see the shift, whether it
Speaker 3: be to on prem to the cloud, whether it's movement
Speaker 3: from non GENI to Jeni, is just so mission critical
Speaker 3: that they have to stick with Microsoft right.
Speaker 7: Now, that's the right question.
Speaker 6: I mean there's two aspects. All those Global two thousand
Speaker 6: has to migrate to cloud to lower cost, and that's
Speaker 6: that's what you do in a recessionary or a decreased
Speaker 6: growth environment. More importantly, what Microsoft said on their call
Speaker 6: last night was a little bit eye opening on the
Speaker 6: guide of Azora being up thirty four to thirty four,
Speaker 6: thirty four to thirty five percent next quarter. Yeah, christ
Speaker 6: and you're bringing the cost down on these models two
Speaker 6: X and their tokens, the Geni agent tokens are off
Speaker 6: almost fifty percent. So the street had this huge debate
Speaker 6: on ROIC return on invested capital. Well, Microsoft's reducing costs
Speaker 6: of Jeni for broad adoption. And if you're sure, if
Speaker 6: you're in the s and P five hundred, if you're
Speaker 6: not migrating to Jenny I, you put your whole model
Speaker 6: at risk from operating margin perspective.
Speaker 3: Ted Mortenson, bed Managing Director, fantastic to have your voice today,
Speaker 3: Thank you. Let's just shift to meta now because shares
Speaker 3: are also jumping following really resilient ad sales in the
Speaker 3: face of Taris sick.
Speaker 8: Listen, we've had a strong start to the year. Our
Speaker 8: community keeps growing, with more than three point four billion
Speaker 8: people now using at least one of our apps each day.
Speaker 8: Our business is also performing very well, and I think
Speaker 8: we're well positioned.
Speaker 5: To navigate the macroeconomic uncertainty.
Speaker 3: Mark Zuckerberg talking about the ability to navigate. Let's get
Speaker 3: up to Evercore. I I scene managing director Mark Mahaney
Speaker 3: now and I pick up where.
Speaker 2: Ted left us.
Speaker 3: The return on investing capital is this bearing dividends? Is
Speaker 3: the integration of generative AI throughout the ad offering vindicating
Speaker 3: that spending that actually they are for this year because
Speaker 3: of tower of costs.
Speaker 9: Well, Carolina give you a couple of points on this,
Speaker 9: you know one, I think a meta is proving to
Speaker 9: show that at the app layer, the application layer, that
Speaker 9: you can get a good ROAI return on you know,
Speaker 9: AI spend. I thought the way Zuckerbird laid out their
Speaker 9: earnings call last night, the five areas of focus for
Speaker 9: AI for the company, and then the returns they're getting
Speaker 9: kind of within each areas of those focus and one
Speaker 9: of the they're used the applying AI.
Speaker 7: To improve their ads platform.
Speaker 9: Well, the application of AIS allowed conversion rates to rise
Speaker 9: about five percent, which is a big number for an
Speaker 9: ad platform.
Speaker 7: That's that huge.
Speaker 9: On the user side, they're trying to improve engagement, They're
Speaker 9: trying to make the content more personalized, more relevant. Well,
Speaker 9: they were able to show that the application of AIS
Speaker 9: led to a seven percent six percent increase in time
Speaker 9: spent on both Instagram and on on Facebook. So yeah,
Speaker 9: I think they're proving that they can use AI to
Speaker 9: improve the service and actually anetize it like you can
Speaker 9: get a return on other AI spent. I want to
Speaker 9: be careful though, I think extrapolating from Meta to other
Speaker 9: companies it's a tricky thing to do.
Speaker 7: One very few companies have spent as.
Speaker 9: Much money and as effectively as Meta has, and then
Speaker 9: Meta's advertising platforms just more resilient. I'm not at all
Speaker 9: sure that these companies are out of the weeds, are
Speaker 9: out of the danger right on when it comes to
Speaker 9: the impact of tariffs.
Speaker 4: So their argument, right is that the time spent metrics
Speaker 4: or evidence of the resiliency and like tough economic environment.
Speaker 4: I felt like this story evolved over the course of
Speaker 4: this statement, hitting to the end of the call, and
Speaker 4: this is the quote from Susan Leon. Why so the
Speaker 4: Capex range gets raised, and we're all thinking commitment to AI,
Speaker 4: even though they said it goes to the cause of business.
Speaker 4: Then Susan gets asked about tariffs and this is the answer.
Speaker 4: The higher cost we expect to incur for infrastructure hardware
Speaker 4: this year really comes from suppliers who source from countries
Speaker 4: around the world. Goes on to explain uncertainty relating to
Speaker 4: trade negotiations. We're working on mitigations. The Capex range got
Speaker 4: raise because it's more expensive for them to build the
Speaker 4: data centers.
Speaker 7: Mark ed you just you nailed it. I think that's
Speaker 7: absolutely true.
Speaker 5: I mean today, keep going, mom, thank you.
Speaker 7: I think there are two reasons.
Speaker 9: One is that I think they are getting more aggressive offensive.
Speaker 9: They've seen the return that they're getting on their aisvan
Speaker 9: and they're leaning into it more. The second reason, however,
Speaker 9: is that costs a rising. And I don't know if
Speaker 9: you noticed this, d but she was very careful never
Speaker 9: to use the.
Speaker 7: T word I eat tariffs.
Speaker 9: I didn't use it's a political Yeah, it's a political
Speaker 9: statement these days, and nobody wants to get involved in politics,
Speaker 9: so so she was very careful about how.
Speaker 7: She answered that. But yes, the costs of tariffs.
Speaker 9: Are attacks their inflationary, and if you're buying a lot
Speaker 9: of infrastructure hardware like Meta clearly is and some of
Speaker 9: the other hyperscalers, by the way, your costs are going up.
Speaker 9: So my guess is that Amazon may have to raise
Speaker 9: its CAPEX, and Google's going to come back to us
Speaker 9: and having to raise its capex, and Microsoft next year
Speaker 9: will probably have to raise its CAPEX numbers because the
Speaker 9: infrastructure costs a rising.
Speaker 4: Look, Susan Lee was employee number forty at Meta. She's
Speaker 4: a CFO, but she gets the business, and what she
Speaker 4: was explaining was that the compute needs are across the business.
Speaker 4: In other words, we're not just doing this for the
Speaker 4: training of a frontier model. They've got people in marketing,
Speaker 4: they've got people in the ad development business that are demanding.
Speaker 5: For access to the computes.
Speaker 4: Do you have conviction that Susan Lee is getting that
Speaker 4: right in the numbers that she gave you last night.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 9: Look, we've had three years now of the of really
Speaker 9: aggressive deployment of AI too to boost the ads business,
Speaker 9: to boost to boost the platform for advertisers and for users,
Speaker 9: but also to roll out some new things like Meta
Speaker 9: AI and then meta AI devices maybe ray band, meta
Speaker 9: ray bans maybe, and also to boost the WhatsApp business.
Speaker 9: And so I think they've shown that they can get
Speaker 9: a good return on this. I mean they're good cutthroad
Speaker 9: capitalists like a couple of these other companies, and I
Speaker 9: think they're making rational business decisions. They're probably leaning a
Speaker 9: little bit more heavily than other companies, but it's paying
Speaker 9: off for them. I think you'll see other companies look
Speaker 9: at what Meta has done, and I think they're going to.
Speaker 7: Lean into AI as well.
Speaker 9: I know we kind of drifted away from the AI
Speaker 9: revolution earlier this year. I think we're going to come
Speaker 9: back to it. I think Meta's going to give us
Speaker 9: good reasons to do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're bringing out Meta AI app as a standalone.
Speaker 3: We've seen also the levers being pulled in terms of
Speaker 3: advertising when it comes to threads. How does that filter
Speaker 3: into WhatsApp and other offerings more broadly marked But you
Speaker 3: said you can't read across from Meta into perhaps other
Speaker 3: social media companies like Snap because Meta ends up being
Speaker 3: like the port of safety in that respect, But read
Speaker 3: across to Amazon in terms of cloud, and indeed you
Speaker 3: say that Amazon might have to raise their spending on
Speaker 3: infrastructure spending in that respect, But where else does AWS
Speaker 3: takers in terms of growth?
Speaker 9: Well, I just think if it's if it's if the
Speaker 9: infrastructure hardware is more expensive for Meta, it's more expensive
Speaker 9: for everybody, And so that's going to be the case
Speaker 9: with Amazon too. I think they're going to they may
Speaker 9: well have. I mean, I think the direction of AWS capex.
Speaker 7: Is going to go up in unless you know, but
Speaker 7: things could.
Speaker 9: Change quickly in this tariff environment, folks. For now, those
Speaker 9: hardware costs are going higher, and so that's going to
Speaker 9: probably be reflected in rising capex spending. And then just
Speaker 9: a point on Meta, I think their model is more resilient. Also,
Speaker 9: we haven't really seen the dramatic economic dislocation. Our checks
Speaker 9: start indicated that you started to see some adverticals really
Speaker 9: softened in the month of April. We still have the
Speaker 9: whole year ahead of us. So I'm you know, I
Speaker 9: don't think. I don't think metas out of the woods.
Speaker 9: My only point is that relative to almost every other
Speaker 9: AD platform, they're more insulated, they're more resilient than anybody else.
Speaker 9: But you know, even if there's a sharp economic downturn,
Speaker 9: They're not going to be immune to it.
Speaker 3: And market's the Chinese retailers that pull back an ad spending.
Speaker 3: What about Amazon's e commerce business, I.
Speaker 7: Think that's going to be tbd. I think the March
Speaker 7: quarter is going to be fine.
Speaker 9: Google gave us a fine March quarter, Metais did, and
Speaker 9: I think Amazon will too. We haven't seen any sharp
Speaker 9: fall off yet in consumer spend, but prices are rising.
Speaker 9: They're going to be rising materially. Those dolls are going
Speaker 9: to be more expensive on Amazon, and and so exactly
Speaker 9: how Amazon handles that, whether they're going to eat margins
Speaker 9: or defend market share. And my guess is that knowing Amazon,
Speaker 9: they're going to defend their market share, so they're gonna
Speaker 9: they're gonna be willing to uh to take a hit
Speaker 9: hit to margins. So that could be a downside to
Speaker 9: the stock. So it depends prices arising on Amazon. That's
Speaker 9: not a good thing for the Amazon ecosystem.
Speaker 4: Mark Behiney, ever, COSI senior managing director, could have you
Speaker 4: back on the show, Thank.
Speaker 7: You very much.
Speaker 4: Now coming up, Qualcomm becomes the latest chip maker to
Speaker 4: offer a cautious sales outlook in the face of trade uncertainty.
Speaker 4: We'll have more in the company's earnings next. This is
Speaker 4: Bloomberg Technology breaking news that's moving markets. Bloomberg reporting the
Speaker 4: US is weighing a potential easing of restriction on Nvidia
Speaker 4: sales to the United HOURRA memorates. That's according to sources,
Speaker 4: who say President Trump could announce the start of work
Speaker 4: on a bilateral chip deal during his upcoming trip to
Speaker 4: the Gulf. Nothing has been decided officially, according to our sources.
Speaker 4: They emphasize that the debate over chip trade rules for
Speaker 4: the UAE and other countries remains ongoing in Washington, but
Speaker 4: the stock spiking on that report to a session high
Speaker 4: of five percent. Competition for Nvidia closes a home. Investors
Speaker 4: are going to be playing close attention to Amazon's AI
Speaker 4: business when the company releases its earnings later today. A
Speaker 4: key part of its AI growth strategy is Trainium, the
Speaker 4: company's custom design chip. I've got a tour of the
Speaker 4: AWS facility where they're made and designed. Have a look
Speaker 4: at this. This is aws Anda Perna Labs in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 4: Amazon does all of its custom AI chip design in
Speaker 4: the US. Most of it happens here. Amazon bought and
Speaker 4: a Perna ten years ago. Today, the team designs and
Speaker 4: tests custom hardware and software that power AWS data centers worldwide.
Speaker 4: We looked at Trainium, Amazon's AI chip for training and
Speaker 4: inference and a Perna doesn't just design the chip, They
Speaker 4: oversee computer electric called mechanical, thermal, and software engineering for
Speaker 4: the entire server. AWS sales reps focus a lot on
Speaker 4: price for performance to win business for the chip. So
Speaker 4: today Trainium two delivers up to four x the performance
Speaker 4: of Gen one that required reducing component count, improving power,
Speaker 4: calling and networking across the server. In Austin, there's a
Speaker 4: quiet lab for chip validation testing from the wafer level
Speaker 4: to boards.
Speaker 5: Then there's the noisy.
Speaker 4: Room where full servers are stress tested. Trainium still in
Speaker 4: its infancy, but it helps reduce Amazon's reliance on AI
Speaker 4: chip leader Nvidia. It could also give AWS more control
Speaker 4: of its own destiny in the market that Nvidia dominates.
Speaker 4: Next up is Trainium two at scale. Project Rainier, built
Speaker 4: with Anthropic will run hundreds of thousands of these chips,
Speaker 4: and that project goes live this year.
Speaker 3: Let's deal with chips and in fact the work perform
Speaker 3: on the nast that one hundred is qual Con this
Speaker 3: after the biggest maker of chips for smartphones gave a
Speaker 3: soft revenue prediction for the current quarter. A mid concerns that, look,
Speaker 3: taras could hurt demand for more. Let's bring in Bloem
Speaker 3: megs Ian King. I feel for Cristiano and Qualcom because
Speaker 3: they've beat on the previous quarter.
Speaker 2: But it really is that sort of middling guide.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I know, you're absolutely right. The guide at the
Speaker 10: top end wasn't bad, right, I mean, it's really all
Speaker 10: they've done is say what everybody else said, which is, hey,
Speaker 10: we had a really good quarter. Things are going okay
Speaker 10: for us. Look but we were doing better than even
Speaker 10: what we said. Well, you know, maybe we're not so
Speaker 10: sure about what's going forward and these things are beyond
Speaker 10: our control. Everybody else said the same thing, but they're
Speaker 10: getting beaten up a lot harder.
Speaker 4: Ian very quickly Qualcomm Android in China, what was the story?
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean this is really important. This is a
Speaker 10: massive market for them, so in a way they're a
Speaker 10: test case. Like more than forty percent of their business
Speaker 10: comes from China. They said it went well.
Speaker 3: Well, we keep an eye on China and the business
Speaker 3: they're Blouem magazine can keeping it short for us as well.
Speaker 2: We love it.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Roadblocks reporting earnings before the bell, and a large
Speaker 3: of them expect to jump in active users for the
Speaker 3: first quarter, fitting from efforts maybe to attract new players
Speaker 3: and keep as they grow older and using the service longer.
Speaker 3: So as you see up four percent intelligence, Senior analyst
Speaker 3: Manly singers, hey with us, and this is a company
Speaker 3: that is managing to steer us for growth again in
Speaker 3: spite of macro uncertainty.
Speaker 2: They've got the users there.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I mean, I think Roadblocks is a defensive name,
Speaker 11: like a Netflix is where people still need entertainment, and
Speaker 11: you know, in this case they cater to the younger demographic,
Speaker 11: the thirteen year olds and look now older older as well,
Speaker 11: and they have that native content. So when you think
Speaker 11: about you know why TikTok did so well because they
Speaker 11: had the creators. Gaming creators are on Roadblocks. This is
Speaker 11: the platform where they create the content and in this case,
Speaker 11: they have a very successful model in terms of payouts
Speaker 11: that they give to those creators. So it's all user
Speaker 11: generated content. They don't have to spend a lot in
Speaker 11: terms of getting branded content and you know, paying content costs,
Speaker 11: and look, it's a very small company when it comes
Speaker 11: to the hours spent on the platforms eighty billion plus
Speaker 11: hours annually. Compare that to Netflix one hundred billion around,
Speaker 11: and they monetize very less compared to all the other
Speaker 11: platforms that are out there. So from that perspective, I
Speaker 11: would say there is so much room to monetize that
Speaker 11: hours spent on roadblocks. I mean, there's still a five
Speaker 11: billion dollar revenue run rate company at the end.
Speaker 4: Of the day through advertising and licensing. Blueberg Intelligence Senior
Speaker 4: and Lissman Deep saying thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Let's check in on the shares of Tesla because with
Speaker 3: a chair, Robin Dunham has been denying reports from the
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal that allege the company was looking to
Speaker 3: replace Elon Musk as its CEO.
Speaker 2: We're currently at one point seven percent. A strong denial.
Speaker 2: Is that smoke without father away.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is the critical question. All you need to
Speaker 4: do is go to Tesla's regulatory filings form ten K
Speaker 4: and they spell it out very clearly, this idea about
Speaker 4: key man risk. Every single regulatory filing has that Elon Musk.
Speaker 4: They are highly dependent on his services. They acknowledge that
Speaker 4: he spends time at all these other companies. I know
Speaker 4: that succession planning is always in the background of the
Speaker 4: Tesla board.
Speaker 5: That's the role of corporate governance exactly.
Speaker 4: I think what's interesting is I continue to hear that
Speaker 4: Elon Musk also plans to spend a lot more time
Speaker 4: on XAI.
Speaker 5: Right, that's a.
Speaker 4: Really big project for him, a priority because he wants
Speaker 4: it to be competitive against open Ai for obvious historical
Speaker 4: reasons and anthropic But this is a clear denial by
Speaker 4: Tesla posted on x to the official Tesla account, citing
Speaker 4: the chair of the report that the board was looking
Speaker 4: to find a replacement, not clear of succession or a
Speaker 4: reaction to the state of this year.
Speaker 3: I mean, don't you think it'd be a failure of
Speaker 3: corporate governance if at some point they weren't thinking who
Speaker 3: on earth could if forced to lead a business such
Speaker 3: as test.
Speaker 4: What people forget is that beyond Elon must there are
Speaker 4: many other generals of the company running the place data
Speaker 4: and the company is still the leader in many of
Speaker 4: the fields it's in.
Speaker 3: He's a good delegator, right, Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology.
Speaker 2: I'm karent hid an Eli.
Speaker 5: I'm Med Lovelow right next to you.
Speaker 4: Let's talk about some of the biggest movers in markets,
Speaker 4: and it continues to be Microsoft.
Speaker 5: Actually from a sort of points.
Speaker 4: Perspective and percentage perspective, the story is simple top line
Speaker 4: growth on its cloud unit of thirty three percent beyond
Speaker 4: what the streets saw, the evidence that all that spending
Speaker 4: on AI development is translating into sales, and that is
Speaker 4: a pretty clear image on your screen. Away from kind
Speaker 4: of the earnings context, there is also litigation and antitrust
Speaker 4: consideration into other names. Right we are, of course talking
Speaker 4: about Alphabet, the parent of Google and Apple. We're going
Speaker 4: to get into detO on those stories. But I think
Speaker 4: interesting that Apple basically flat.
Speaker 5: We acknowledge that.
Speaker 4: It's treading water, probably ahead of earnings after the bell
Speaker 4: carrier Alphabet.
Speaker 5: I don't know, I don't draw a cause or link.
Speaker 3: There's see that and see maybe it's the meta numbers
Speaker 3: and what that feeds into advertising resiliency. But we also,
Speaker 3: of course got a very strong pushback from Peachi, of course,
Speaker 3: the leader of Alphabet and Google, against any sort of
Speaker 3: de facto breakup of the company. As we consider remedies
Speaker 3: toward is deemed a monopoly place within search. Leon Niyhlan's
Speaker 3: here to break it all down in court. Finally, Snapitchai
Speaker 3: getting up there and saying, look, any of these remedies,
Speaker 3: whether it's sharing our data or that it's actually spinning
Speaker 3: off Chrome, you're breaking us apart and it's too much.
Speaker 12: Yes, So he took this doan yesterday in the Justice
Speaker 12: Department's trial. This is the three week trial that's supposed
Speaker 12: to determine what the remedy is for Google's illegal online
Speaker 12: monopoly in search. The Justice Department has proposed, as you mentioned,
Speaker 12: that Google be required to spin off the Chrome browser,
Speaker 12: and also that it be required to share a lot
Speaker 12: of the data that it collects about users and the
Speaker 12: web with rivals. And Sandar Pashai pushed back on that
Speaker 12: remedy in particular pretty hard. He said, you know that
Speaker 12: while not an actual breakup, would be the facto breakup
Speaker 12: of the company, because it would allow all of their
Speaker 12: rivals to effectively reverse engineer their technology and use all
Speaker 12: of the sort of things that Google has built up
Speaker 12: over the past several years to gain its sort of
Speaker 12: share in in search.
Speaker 4: Lee I said that Apple stock was flat because it's
Speaker 4: treading water ahead of the market closed when it does earnings,
Speaker 4: maybe there's downward.
Speaker 5: Pressure from a critical court decision.
Speaker 4: A federal judge ruled the Apple violated court orders by
Speaker 4: not opening up the app store to third parties. You've
Speaker 4: been tracking that story as well. What are the need
Speaker 4: to know details about it?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so this.
Speaker 12: Goes back to the long running litigation between Apple and
Speaker 12: Epic Games, maker of Fortnite, which sued the company back
Speaker 12: in twenty twenty over its app store, and even though
Speaker 12: it lost most of the counts in that case, the
Speaker 12: judge did find that Apple's app store a violated California
Speaker 12: state law against over antitrust and ordered Apple to make
Speaker 12: some changes to its app store policies, in particular allowing
Speaker 12: developers to link out, i e. Make it easier for
Speaker 12: users to buy digital goods and services on their own
Speaker 12: websites as opposed to within Apple's ecosystem. Apple didn't really
Speaker 12: love this, introduced some new policies in January of last
Speaker 12: year that it was still going to charge a twenty
Speaker 12: seven percent commission on things that people purchased outside of
Speaker 12: the app Store if they took advantage of these links well,
Speaker 12: Epic complained. The judge held a series of hearings both
Speaker 12: last year and this year and found that the changes
Speaker 12: that Apple made were deliberately anti competitive. She said in
Speaker 12: a very blistering opinion that was released late last evening.
Speaker 12: She said, you know, every single time Apple had a choice,
Speaker 12: it chose the most anti competitive option. And on top
Speaker 12: of that, she found that some of the executives who
Speaker 12: testified at the hearing lied on the stand, and she
Speaker 12: recommended that the federal government open a investigation into whether
Speaker 12: they should be held liable for criminal contempt.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean on fire was Gonzales Rogers saying that
Speaker 3: if they thought that this court would tolerate such insubordination,
Speaker 3: it was a gross miscalculation. Apple comes back earlier and says,
Speaker 3: we strongly disagree with this decision and we're going to
Speaker 3: appeal it.
Speaker 2: So what next?
Speaker 12: Yes, so Apple is going to appeal. She said in
Speaker 12: her decision that Apple needed to make immediate changes. They
Speaker 12: are likely going to try and appeal that to the
Speaker 12: Ninth Circuit to put that on hold at least through
Speaker 12: the appeals.
Speaker 2: In this we'll see if the Ninth.
Speaker 12: Circuit agrees, because they have already reviewed this case one
Speaker 12: time and found earlier that her decision, you know, was solid,
Speaker 12: so they could put this on hold while Apple appeals.
Speaker 12: If they do, you know, it's going to go through
Speaker 12: the appeal process and we will not probably have a
Speaker 12: decision until sometime mid to early next year. Or they
Speaker 12: could say, you know, this should have gone into effect
Speaker 12: last year and so so they could let it go
Speaker 12: into a factor while Apple appeals.
Speaker 5: Bloomberth Leon Eilan out of DC, Thank you very much.
Speaker 4: Let's get more on Apple, but specifically what investors expect
Speaker 4: from its earnings report later today.
Speaker 5: That's bringing Carolyn A. Milanates.
Speaker 4: She's the president and principal analyst of creative Strategies. Bloomberg's
Speaker 4: Mark German, who let's just be honest, is that is
Speaker 4: probably the leading correspondent and journalists covering Apple in the world, says,
Speaker 4: don't look back at.
Speaker 5: The quarter gone or the numbers.
Speaker 4: It's really about the long term and what Apple communicates
Speaker 4: on how it adjust supply chains in the face of
Speaker 4: trade policy presently, what is your thesis on that.
Speaker 13: I agree with Mark, It's really about what Apple is
Speaker 13: able to do from a manufacturing perspective, supply chain perspective
Speaker 13: to make sure that they are not subjected to whatever
Speaker 13: the administration decides to do. On the tarist side, we
Speaker 13: know that they are planning to shift their production to
Speaker 13: India as far as iPhones that are coming to the US,
Speaker 13: but that doesn't happen overnight, So anything that they're able
Speaker 13: to disclose, and obviously Apple always keeps their car very
Speaker 13: close to their chests and things like this, but the
Speaker 13: street needs reassurance that they have a plan and it's
Speaker 13: the same Fai.
Speaker 4: Actually, Apple is historically the master of the bottom line, right,
Speaker 4: profit and margins, irrespective of what's happening around the world.
Speaker 4: But it's likely I think you and I discussed this
Speaker 4: the last time you're on the show. India long term
Speaker 4: flying handsets out of that nation into the United States.
Speaker 4: It all costs money moving something from place A to
Speaker 4: place B.
Speaker 5: How do you see them explaining.
Speaker 4: Their ability to protect themselves from those costs.
Speaker 13: There's a couple of things. One is that this is
Speaker 13: team's cook, bread and butter. He is an operational guy.
Speaker 13: He has been entrench in supply chain organization for a
Speaker 13: very long time.
Speaker 5: Is also a very good diplomat.
Speaker 13: So I think that while moving supply chain and production
Speaker 13: to India is one of the core things that they
Speaker 13: can do. Is also very good at dealing with politics,
Speaker 13: whether it is at home or in China. So I
Speaker 13: think these are the other thing that we'll see happening.
Speaker 13: But we also have to remember that Apple is becoming
Speaker 13: more dependent on revenue coming from services, and so we
Speaker 13: might see some give from a price perspective on the
Speaker 13: actual phones and other devices, thinking that they can recoup
Speaker 13: some of that from the services side.
Speaker 3: Now it might be a good diplomat, but many might
Speaker 3: feel that potentially they have dropped the ball from.
Speaker 2: An AI perspective.
Speaker 3: Carolina, and I've got one note land in my inbox
Speaker 3: coming up from Linked Secuities.
Speaker 2: I think that Apple is struggling to stay relevant. Is
Speaker 2: that to much of.
Speaker 3: An assumption to be making right now? Because of Syrian
Speaker 3: and the lackluster rollout of Jenny.
Speaker 7: I look at the end of.
Speaker 13: The day, I think that what people are picking up
Speaker 13: is the fact that Apple made promises from an AI
Speaker 13: perspective and they're not delivering quite yet. That's a reality.
Speaker 5: What is a reality as well, is.
Speaker 13: That consumers are still not going into a store asking
Speaker 13: for something that is AI driven, and they're still very
Speaker 13: much focused on hardware when they're looking specifically as smartphones.
Speaker 13: So there is some grace when it comes to the
Speaker 13: opportunity that Apple has. But it is interesting to see
Speaker 13: the exignment around the statement the pitch I made yesterday
Speaker 13: of the day before, around Jemy and I get into
Speaker 13: Apple before the end of the year.
Speaker 3: Yes, so that cross pollination. Look, maybe that's AI winning
Speaker 3: out for Apple longer term. They don't always do it first,
Speaker 3: but my goodness, they are not doing it best in
Speaker 3: the longer term, Karentina, Do people have the bandwidth to
Speaker 3: hold on to that view?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 13: I think that there's going to be two realities. One
Speaker 13: is the Apple and sire and what Apple Intelligence itself
Speaker 13: is going to deliver it to consumer is much more personal.
Speaker 2: But what people are.
Speaker 13: Really excited about now is the more general AI and
Speaker 13: that's where Jemmy and I, CHAGBT and the other providers
Speaker 13: come in. And to your point, Apple does usually come
Speaker 13: in later in the market with a solution that then
Speaker 13: pleases consumers because of the way that they package it together.
Speaker 4: You're both making historic references to BlackBerry and the smartphone market.
Speaker 4: I think what's the one area where Apple is is
Speaker 4: indisputably King.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think it's simplicity.
Speaker 13: To be honest with you, is the fact that at
Speaker 13: the end of the day, when talking about packaging things together,
Speaker 13: that when they deliver it to consumer, the you know,
Speaker 13: the simplicity they used to deliver that solution is what
Speaker 13: is an I've seen consumers to stay wherever they are.
Speaker 13: And the other one is obviously marketing.
Speaker 2: They're good at that. We have to see how much
Speaker 2: they can dial.
Speaker 3: Up that services side of the equation throughout Carolina Milanaisy.
Speaker 3: So it's great to have your president and principal analyst
Speaker 3: at creative Strategies coming up. Uncourt Capital it raises three
Speaker 3: hundred million dollars if it searches for the next big
Speaker 3: AI startup. When you speaking with a managing partner, Andy McLoughlin,
Speaker 3: that's next, there is a Bloomberg technology.
Speaker 4: Uncourt Capital has just raised three hundred million dollars that
Speaker 4: will be spread across two funds. The early stage investment
Speaker 4: firm who made a name backing the likes of Poshmark, Postmates,
Speaker 4: event Bright, and Fitbit, are looking for its next big startup,
Speaker 4: focusing on AI for more. Andy McLaughlin, Uncourt Capital managing
Speaker 4: partner joins us. Now, Caroline and I have noticed something.
Speaker 5: Let's start here.
Speaker 4: Every day, literally the daily cadence, we are delivering news
Speaker 4: about a new fund that's closed. What is the big
Speaker 4: picture macro driver of that activity, Andy, and in your case,
Speaker 4: specific to you.
Speaker 14: That's a great question, know, and I think it really
Speaker 14: comes down to LPs so investors in funds looking for
Speaker 14: ways to deploy capital into managers who have a knack
Speaker 14: and a history and a track record of having found
Speaker 14: kind of breakout companies before they were obvious. And I
Speaker 14: think as seed investors, that's what we have to be
Speaker 14: well class at. We have to be able to see
Speaker 14: around the corner and see the things that most other
Speaker 14: people can't see.
Speaker 3: Is Andy, almost the seed and the very early stage,
Speaker 3: the harbor and the storm at the moment, is that
Speaker 3: where you're getting the interest from LPs.
Speaker 5: I think that's right.
Speaker 14: I mean, when you invest as earlier as we do,
Speaker 14: and this is often inception stage or very short afterwards,
Speaker 14: you are insulated from the global macro a little bit.
Speaker 14: And of course there are going to be knock on
Speaker 14: effects from the tariffs that will affect maybe some of
Speaker 14: our later stage portfolio companies who are thinking about maybe
Speaker 14: going out for an IPO in the next year or so.
Speaker 14: But I think for the very very early stage, I mean,
Speaker 14: it's just given people the steely determination to put their
Speaker 14: heads down and to just build.
Speaker 3: I think more broadly, we're thinking about, therefore, where it
Speaker 3: is impacting your later stage investments, the follow one investment
Speaker 3: that you've given and goodness, I mean, you've been found
Speaker 3: in two thousand and four as a VC company, so
Speaker 3: you've got long term bits mets coming to fruition. What
Speaker 3: are you thinking about the exit market right now? Because Annie,
Speaker 3: I'm correct me if I'm wrong here, but a lot
Speaker 3: of the exits you've had at Uncork have kind.
Speaker 2: Of been M and A. You haven't had that many
Speaker 2: Landmark IPOs.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the IPOs that we talk about.
Speaker 14: Obviously, Fitbit was the first send Grid Poshmark Postmates had
Speaker 14: filed for IPO before they were taken out. And I think,
Speaker 14: you know, there's been lots of talk in the industry
Speaker 14: over the last even like two weeks around you know,
Speaker 14: if IPO is on't happening, and if M and A
Speaker 14: is still slower, that we're beginning to see kind of
Speaker 14: the dripp grip of deals happening again. Actually, a lot
Speaker 14: of liquid is probably going to come from the secondary markets,
Speaker 14: and I think as early stage investors we have to
Speaker 14: be thinking always about how we can begin to realize
Speaker 14: liquidity for our investors, because honestly, if we don't give
Speaker 14: them capital back, they won't give us more in the future.
Speaker 4: Okay, so let's show the portfolio names you highlighted again.
Speaker 4: What do they have in common? When you think about okay,
Speaker 4: you want to look at the next great startup at
Speaker 4: the early stage.
Speaker 5: But as I read out at the beginning in AI, yeah.
Speaker 14: I mean I think firstly on AI, you know, AI
Speaker 14: is pervasive today and it will only become more pervasive.
Speaker 14: I think, you know, people are still talking about AI
Speaker 14: native startups. I think you wind the clock forward not
Speaker 14: very long, and all of a sudden, you know, talking
Speaker 14: about AI is going to be talking about cloud where
Speaker 14: it's just assumed that you're building using AI. And in
Speaker 14: terms of the companies that you highlighted, I think that
Speaker 14: really the two things are that you know, these were
Speaker 14: early bets on founders that had a particular point of
Speaker 14: view on how things should be done. And secondly, they
Speaker 14: were opening new markets. I mean people Obviously now think
Speaker 14: about Uber Eats and they think about door dash, but
Speaker 14: Postmates was the very first on demand food delivery app
Speaker 14: in North America.
Speaker 5: That was the first.
Speaker 14: Consumer grade wearable that could track steps and fitness. So,
Speaker 14: although you know, these are different types of businesses, different
Speaker 14: business models, that kind of one thing kind of runs
Speaker 14: through all of them.
Speaker 4: And there's some data that's been doing the rounds on
Speaker 4: X and it's about early stage investing and how the
Speaker 4: pool is dominated by few players and rec and Sequoia
Speaker 4: Vinoden over at Costler. What's that like for you in
Speaker 4: that environment where there's a high concentration of activity from
Speaker 4: just say half a dozen to a dozen slightly larger firms.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean we typically see those as the firms
Speaker 14: that will follow on from us. I mean, yes, they
Speaker 14: all have seed programs, Yes they're all doing seed investing,
Speaker 14: but you know, when you're trying to deploy a multi
Speaker 14: billion dollar fund, you can't be slinging two, three, four
Speaker 14: million dollar checks all day long.
Speaker 5: So you know, we see them as partners.
Speaker 14: And I think one of the things that we love
Speaker 14: about seed investing is that we have our place in
Speaker 14: the ecosystem. We can be very collaborative with our co
Speaker 14: investors at our stage and then work with the names
Speaker 14: that you've mentioned later.
Speaker 5: And I think as I as I.
Speaker 14: Talked before about our challenging opportunity is we have to
Speaker 14: be able to pick things before they're obvious.
Speaker 5: As soon as they're obvious.
Speaker 14: A Koestler or an Andresen or a Sequoya will sweep
Speaker 14: in and pay big money for it. So for us,
Speaker 14: it's all about spotting the things that aren't right aren't
Speaker 14: there yet.
Speaker 2: Andy, it's been great speaking with you.
Speaker 3: Thanks Anamclaughlin, Thank you veryone called Capital great to have you. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: let's you stick in the world of VC. Because Washington
Speaker 3: actually hosted business leaders and vcs and lawmakers for the
Speaker 3: Hill and Valley Forum, the focus on tech and national
Speaker 3: security numbers. Amri Horden spoke with Lux Capital managing partner
Speaker 3: Josh Wolfe why the rest of the world should not
Speaker 3: rely on Chinese AI models.
Speaker 15: The first thing starts with the chips, so we said, okay,
Speaker 15: we have to restrict chips unto China. And unfortunately, one
Speaker 15: of the great lessons of innovation is that necessity is
Speaker 15: the mother of invention.
Speaker 7: So we restrict them.
Speaker 15: They're still going to find ways to route around. Now,
Speaker 15: whether deepseek was trained through in a technical tre earn
Speaker 15: these diffusion models where they sort of copied some of
Speaker 15: the other foundation models and built on them, doesn't matter.
Speaker 15: What matters is really efficiently unpresumably less GPUs, meaning they
Speaker 15: don't need as many chips. They were able to do
Speaker 15: things that some of our best models couldn't do, and
Speaker 15: so that was a wake up call to say, is
Speaker 15: the future of AI going to be smaller models? Is
Speaker 15: the future of AI going to be different chip architecture and.
Speaker 5: How are we going to compete on that?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 15: My own personal view is that open source is going
Speaker 15: to be closed source. That these large companies open AI
Speaker 15: Andthropic and others that have raised tens of billions of dollars,
Speaker 15: most of which have a crue to Jensen and Nvidia
Speaker 15: to s he sells the chips that in the future,
Speaker 15: what's going to happen is the companies that have the
Speaker 15: longitudinal silos of data, meaning people that have a lot
Speaker 15: of big data. Big data which everybody was talking about
Speaker 15: ten years ago didn't materialize to a lot, are the
Speaker 15: ones that we'll be able to use free, open source
Speaker 15: models on their proprietary data. So that might be Farmer
Speaker 15: companies with their clinical trial data. It might be Bloomberg
Speaker 15: with their repository financial information. It might be Meta with
Speaker 15: their WhatsApp chat's and Instagram and Facebook posts.
Speaker 7: It might be Elon and Tesla and.
Speaker 5: X with all the Twitter posts.
Speaker 15: So those are the people that I think are going
Speaker 15: to be advantaged, and that's what we should be focusing on.
Speaker 15: How do we compete with China, not on the chip side,
Speaker 15: not on the model side, but on the applications and
Speaker 15: the use of the data to actually do stuff.
Speaker 5: On the chip side.
Speaker 16: Though, Jensen wang I caught up in them very quickly
Speaker 16: when he was coming into the conference and I asked
Speaker 16: him about how far behind is China? And he said,
Speaker 16: is China behind? He thinks they're very very close. So
Speaker 16: how do we make sure that they don't surpass America?
Speaker 15: Well, I think it's going to be about the use cases.
Speaker 15: So number one, we don't want the rest of the
Speaker 15: world using Chinese models, because Chinese models will approach an
Speaker 15: assymp tote of truth but not truth. There will be
Speaker 15: no search about Tenement Square and Hinjang and the Wigers
Speaker 15: and these kinds of things and So we want the
Speaker 15: world using open models that are made by companies like ours,
Speaker 15: like hugging Face, that are the open source repository for
Speaker 15: all the best AI models. That to me is something
Speaker 15: that trends closer to truth. And those are the kinds
Speaker 15: of systems that you want people using AI for. They're
Speaker 15: going to come up with their own ship systems. They're
Speaker 15: going to come up with less good but much more
Speaker 15: number numerous of them, and they're going to find ways
Speaker 15: to beat us in that domain. They're going to come
Speaker 15: up with their own models again to their own policy
Speaker 15: prescriptions and what Chi Jinping wants. The key is how
Speaker 15: do we get our kids using it early? How do
Speaker 15: we become advantaged as individual humans using AI to be
Speaker 15: more productive?
Speaker 4: That was Josh Wolf, managing partner of Lux Capital, speaking
Speaker 4: with Amrie Horden.
Speaker 2: Time Now for Talking Tech and First Up.
Speaker 3: Robin Hood saw retail investors that flocked to the financial
Speaker 3: service platform as for.
Speaker 2: President Trump's tarifs.
Speaker 3: Really world market companies saw net revenue jump fifty percent
Speaker 3: from a year earlier to nine hundred and twenty seven million,
Speaker 3: but crypto revenue fell behind, maybe reflected in the stock move.
Speaker 3: CEO of lad TENEV spoke with Bloomberg earlier about their
Speaker 3: strength in April.
Speaker 17: April's continued to be incredibly strong across the board. I
Speaker 17: talked about futures already, but you know, equities and options
Speaker 17: are adder near multi year highs and net deposits has
Speaker 17: continued to be remarkably strong.
Speaker 3: Plus, Instacart has acquired US grocery e commerce platform win Shop,
Speaker 3: the latest acquisition as to the delivery companies growing numbers
Speaker 3: of software businesses, which now powers over six hundred brand sites.
Speaker 2: Turns. The size of the deal were not disclosed.
Speaker 3: And Visa says it's enabling AI agents that will help
Speaker 3: browse products and make purchases for consumers, cutting the time
Speaker 3: and energy customers spend on shopping. We spoke with Visa
Speaker 3: CEO Ryan Mcinernie exclusively, who have this to say about
Speaker 3: the program.
Speaker 18: What we've announced is a set of tools that give
Speaker 18: agents the capabilities to go make payments on your behalf.
Speaker 18: Think of that as AI enabled Visa credentials, and also
Speaker 18: the rules and the capabilities that will provide trust, trust
Speaker 18: that consumers will have in their agents, trust that merchants
Speaker 18: are going to have that they're going to get paid
Speaker 18: and trust that financial institutions will have that you've actually
Speaker 18: empowered your agent to make those purchases on your behalf.
Speaker 3: And you can watch more of that conversation with the
Speaker 3: Visa CEO online at Bloomberg dot com.
Speaker 4: Ed that does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4: But let's recap the kind of biggest stories in markets.
Speaker 4: Microsoft and Meta resilience and strength and growth of their
Speaker 4: core businesses while.
Speaker 5: Committing to spend on AI.
Speaker 4: In Vidia now pairing some of its gains after a
Speaker 4: Bloomberg exclusive that the US is weighing easing chip export
Speaker 4: cubs for Nvidia to the United Arab Emirates. Will continue
Speaker 4: to track that story carry throughout the day.
Speaker 3: But we've got so many more earnings to come after
Speaker 3: the bell. The all important Apple down three ten percent.
Speaker 3: We get that epic loss when it comes to that
Speaker 3: fight in the courts regarding the app store, But what
Speaker 3: will they say in terms of pull forward from consumers?
Speaker 3: Amazon up too and a half percent? Will they deliver
Speaker 3: eight percent growth and revenue? And Reddit at more than
Speaker 3: four percent? Maybe a read across from Meta there. Do
Speaker 3: not forget to check out our podcasts, though you can
Speaker 3: find on on the terminal, as well as online on Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 3: and iHeart Broombag technology.
Speaker 8: I