Speaker 1: Hey, that folks. It is Thursday, June eleventh, and an
Speaker 1: execution is scheduled for tonight, but we still don't know
Speaker 1: if it's going to go forward after some last minute
Speaker 1: back and forth legal wrangling and maybe even a landmark
Speaker 1: court decision in there as well. And with all that,
Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. This
Speaker 1: is not just about this one case. This could be enormous.
Speaker 1: This is a fascinating They all seem to be robes
Speaker 1: have turned out to be, but this is one of
Speaker 1: the most fascinating executions we've covered.
Speaker 2: That's true, and we are still unclear right now at
Speaker 2: the time of this recording whether or not Jeffrey Lee
Speaker 2: will die tonight.
Speaker 3: In the state of Alabama.
Speaker 2: We have been following this now for a couple of days,
Speaker 2: but there was a new development last night Wednesday night,
Speaker 2: a federal appeals court upheld that decision.
Speaker 3: And we told you.
Speaker 2: About earlier by that Alabama judge who blocked the state
Speaker 2: from using nitrogen gas for tonight's execution. So when the
Speaker 2: judge made that decision, the state immediately appealed it, and
Speaker 2: late yesterday we got word from the appeals court that
Speaker 2: they are upholding that judge's decision that it is cruel
Speaker 2: and unusual and unconstitutional.
Speaker 1: So as we sit here, Alabama is not allowed to
Speaker 1: use its preferred method, which is nitrogen gas, to go
Speaker 1: forward with the execution. Sol Robes, I guess we have
Speaker 1: two options we are looking at possibly now, one the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, two Alabama just going ahead and doing the execution.
Speaker 1: So Robes, where should we start here this case, Now
Speaker 1: where it sits, it could be up to the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court to make a decision not about staying the execution,
Speaker 1: but about whether or not they can use nitrogen gas.
Speaker 2: Correct, Because yes, the fate of how Jeffrey Lee is
Speaker 2: going to die is now in the hands of the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court, it appears, because that is the most likely
Speaker 2: next step, because yes, when this Appeals Court back to
Speaker 2: the judge who said Alabama could not execute Lee this way,
Speaker 2: now they are asking the Supreme Court to step in.
Speaker 2: And there is precedent here. The Supreme Court has previously
Speaker 2: cited with the state of Alabama to allow nitrogen executions
Speaker 2: to proceed after last minute appeals. So there are decisions
Speaker 2: that we can look to where the Supreme Court, in
Speaker 2: a very similar situation, has said, you know what, Alabama,
Speaker 2: you can go ahead and use the gas.
Speaker 1: Wow wow. So that's one option. The Supreme Court, of course,
Speaker 1: can choose not to get involved, correct and this in
Speaker 1: the courts. So the decision that stays that will stay
Speaker 1: in place is the one that says Alabama can't use
Speaker 1: nitrogen gas. So robes what does the state of Alabama
Speaker 1: do if they get to execution time and they can't
Speaker 1: use gas.
Speaker 2: So we heard directly from Governor k Ivy's office after
Speaker 2: the appeal was denied, and this is what the official
Speaker 2: response was from the governor. As Alabama continues to defend
Speaker 2: its execution protocol in the courts, the Governor remains prepared
Speaker 2: to move forward with the planned execution.
Speaker 1: Didn't say anything about the method.
Speaker 3: Didn't say how.
Speaker 2: And look, they have lethal injection in the state of
Speaker 2: Alabama and they have an electric chair.
Speaker 1: Now, come on.
Speaker 2: We talked about the electric chair in an episode yesterday.
Speaker 2: If you're interested in that, please check that one out
Speaker 2: because we talked about Yellow Mama, big yellow electric chair.
Speaker 3: It is horrible.
Speaker 2: It's frightening to look at because it's so sunny and cheerful,
Speaker 2: literally painted with the Highway Department yellow paint they use
Speaker 2: to make those yellow lines on the highway.
Speaker 3: So it's bright, think cheery.
Speaker 1: Think big bird in the form of furniture.
Speaker 3: Yes, except for it kills you.
Speaker 1: It looks like we've talked about those Adirondack chairs when
Speaker 1: you go out of doing vacation.
Speaker 2: It's the most disturbing thing that is I have seen recently.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so.
Speaker 2: That's there, but it literally would have to be dusted off.
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like that's a viable option.
Speaker 1: Twenty two years, I think you said.
Speaker 3: Twenty something years. It's been two decades plus.
Speaker 2: So look, they do and they have absolutely successfully executed
Speaker 2: inmates using the lethal injection method.
Speaker 3: It's just look, it's been complicated. There have been issues
Speaker 3: with that.
Speaker 2: So in order to try and find another humane way
Speaker 2: to execute inmates, Alabama as of twenty twenty four, has
Speaker 2: been executing inmates using nitrogen gas. So Jeffrey Lee filed
Speaker 2: an appeal. This is how this all began, saying it's
Speaker 2: cruel and unusual, and now he's got a judge and
Speaker 2: an appeals backing that up. And he had some reaction
Speaker 2: to that news. He told NBC News it's like an
Speaker 2: expected sigh of relief in one aspect, and then you
Speaker 2: still got to stay and maintain your focus and continue
Speaker 2: to fight.
Speaker 3: Fear not. I am not finished. And just you know,
Speaker 3: to me, my faith is everything.
Speaker 1: Fight, the fight is what The fight is to stay alive,
Speaker 1: or the fight is to die the way I want
Speaker 1: to die? What is the fight?
Speaker 2: It probably both. The preferred would be to not die.
Speaker 2: But he does say I don't fear dying because I
Speaker 2: know where I would be. He has talked about he's
Speaker 2: expressed remorse for the killing, so he's not denying that
Speaker 2: he's murdered these two people in a pawn shop all
Speaker 2: those years ago, some thirty years ago. But he is
Speaker 2: now a Christian, and so he says he knows where
Speaker 2: he is going. But he said, God, he's not finished.
Speaker 2: He's still working not only on my behalf, but on
Speaker 2: the other brother's behalf that.
Speaker 3: Are still facing this situation.
Speaker 2: And he's referring to the other men on death row,
Speaker 2: who also if this case does not change how Alabama
Speaker 2: executes men will also die by nitrogen gas.
Speaker 3: Likely.
Speaker 1: Um, and I was sorry, I'm stuck on a couple
Speaker 1: of the soundbites you were reading there. Do you say
Speaker 1: he doesn't fear death.
Speaker 3: He said, I don't fear dying.
Speaker 1: It doesn't fear dying, just he fears how he crying
Speaker 1: to die.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 2: In fact, to that point, he talked about hearing how
Speaker 2: his friends died by nitrogen gas before him. He said,
Speaker 2: I was raised up around those guys because when I
Speaker 2: first got to the row, I was twenty three years old,
Speaker 2: just turning twenty four when we heard what they went through. Man,
Speaker 2: it's like losing a family member.
Speaker 1: Wait, twenty three twenty four.
Speaker 3: Heard he was forty nine.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, have they been using nitro's in gas for
Speaker 1: a year a year and a.
Speaker 2: Half, Okay, But I guess he's known them for that long, Okay,
Speaker 2: and they So there were seven inmates in that year
Speaker 2: and a half in the state of Alabama who he
Speaker 2: was on death row with who died by nitrogen gas.
Speaker 2: And there are some pretty difficult witness accounts of what
Speaker 2: they went through. One witness account even described ten minutes
Speaker 2: of suffering.
Speaker 1: It sounds, yes, suffocating, sounds awful. That's what. It chokes
Speaker 1: off oxygen to your cells by feeding you nitrogen gas,
Speaker 1: introducing that is the only thing you're breathing instead of
Speaker 1: oxygen and yes, Robes, that sounds horrific to be taking
Speaker 1: in air of some kind and yet you cannot breathe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds pretty awful.
Speaker 1: Sounds awful.
Speaker 2: It's going to be interesting what the Supreme Court does,
Speaker 2: if anything, because yes, you heard, we told you what
Speaker 2: the judge said. Then the Appeals Court actually their official
Speaker 2: language when they ruled in favor of the judge said
Speaker 2: nitrogen hypoxia is likely unconstant institutional method for carrying out
Speaker 2: the death penalty, so.
Speaker 3: They use the word likely.
Speaker 2: I'm just curious with the Supreme Court if they will
Speaker 2: rule differently than they have in the past, given the
Speaker 2: fact that now you've got two courts saying it's likely
Speaker 2: unconstituted likely but likely? Was the out maybe the off ramp,
Speaker 2: the legal off ramp that the Supreme Court could use.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure, but.
Speaker 1: It sounds like it gives Alabama a legal on ramp
Speaker 1: to be able to go ahead with the plan.
Speaker 2: But it upheld the judge's decision to create a permanent
Speaker 2: stop on nitrogen hypoxia.
Speaker 1: So, and that in itself is a big deal. Robe,
Speaker 1: because no state is going to now start using this method.
Speaker 1: I think you said Louisiana was Louisiana are the one
Speaker 1: who had so this method of execution could possibly be
Speaker 1: on its way out already if other courts rule this
Speaker 1: way road this is so it goes. It has impacts
Speaker 1: far beyond Jeffrey Lee and whatever happens to him tonight.
Speaker 1: And again Rose by the statement you read, it sounds
Speaker 1: like the governors has a backup plan.
Speaker 2: The Governor's office has not wavered once when it comes
Speaker 2: to this case, in particular because there have been a
Speaker 2: couple of different reasons why folks who are in Jeffrey
Speaker 2: Lee's camp have said he shouldn't be executed. The nitrodrink
Speaker 2: gas was just the one that actually got the attention
Speaker 2: or at least got some legs in terms of perhaps delaying,
Speaker 2: halting or altering how he's going to die. Nothing else
Speaker 2: has worked so far. But the governor in this case,
Speaker 2: who has pardoned two inmates in her nine years not pardoned,
Speaker 2: excuse me, stayed the execution of two death row inmates.
Speaker 2: Given her nine years in office, there's a big distinction
Speaker 2: between the two. But she has been very clear, repeatedly
Speaker 2: clear that she is not going to intervene and she
Speaker 2: is not going to stop this execution, and in fact
Speaker 2: pretty strong language they're saying they will carry this out
Speaker 2: this evening.
Speaker 1: Then that means they have lethal injection ready to go.
Speaker 3: They must have that plan in place. But as you
Speaker 3: point out.
Speaker 2: What the Supreme Court decides on this case isn't just
Speaker 2: about Jeffrey Lee. This does have the potential to change
Speaker 2: how states are either currently executing folks or are potentially
Speaker 2: planning on executing folks.
Speaker 1: There is nothing out standing in court right now that
Speaker 1: is challenging the execution itself. No one is trying to
Speaker 1: stop it on some grounds having to do with the case.
Speaker 1: It's just having to do with how he is going
Speaker 1: to be killed. So Robes, I am here we go again.
Speaker 1: We're on day of execution and we're watching o'clock this Ye,
Speaker 1: it's going to go for.
Speaker 3: TikTok, TikTok.
Speaker 2: When we come back, we're going to tell you more
Speaker 2: about who has died by this method of execution and
Speaker 2: a reminder of the crime that Jeffrey Lee was convicted of.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to everyone to this episode of Amy and
Speaker 2: TJ where right now, as of this recording, we are
Speaker 2: waiting to see if Jeffrey Lee will die tonight, and
Speaker 2: if so, how he will die tonight. Those are two
Speaker 2: questions that aren't exactly clear. Look, if you ask the
Speaker 2: state of Alabama, if you ask the Governor's office, they
Speaker 2: will tell you Jeffrey Lee is.
Speaker 3: Going to be executed tonight. At least that's what we
Speaker 3: have heard. However, there are.
Speaker 2: Several things percolating right now, and the big question is
Speaker 2: what will the Supreme Court do, if anything, Will they
Speaker 2: hear this case, will they step in, will they make
Speaker 2: a ruling, a judgment about nitrogen gas?
Speaker 3: And how will that affect this case? It's unclear right now.
Speaker 1: They have to have the drugs ready for lethal injection.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the rules are about alerting the
Speaker 1: inmate of how he's going to die. I assume there's
Speaker 1: some rule for that. But Robes, he doesn't want nitrogen gas.
Speaker 1: He might get his wish.
Speaker 2: He wants firing squad, but he doesn't want lethal injection either.
Speaker 1: I don't think, but Robes, what if he walks into
Speaker 1: a room and sees a big ass yellow chair.
Speaker 3: My god, I cannot even imagine.
Speaker 1: I do not know what method. I cannot imagine that
Speaker 1: still is legal.
Speaker 2: It seems as though the State of Alabama can execute
Speaker 2: him with the remaining two options, and that was made
Speaker 2: abundantly clear and in the judge's order that this appeal
Speaker 2: SQURD has now upheld. She actually made a comment about
Speaker 2: the firing squad and said, yeah, that actually does seem
Speaker 2: like it wouldn't cause unnecessary pain and suffering if you've
Speaker 2: got four bullets to the heart or at least marksman
Speaker 2: and the State of Alabama was very quick in their
Speaker 2: response to that judge saying, yet, we don't have anything
Speaker 2: in place to suddenly create a fire ring squad, to
Speaker 2: have trained assassins basically.
Speaker 3: At the ready.
Speaker 2: We can't just pull this out of our butts a
Speaker 2: day before a scheduled execution. So, like the the attorney
Speaker 2: the Attorney General pushed back hard and said, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: not happening. So I'm glad you all think the firing
Speaker 2: squad is good, but we can't.
Speaker 3: Pull that off.
Speaker 1: That was fascinating to see. Sure you got it. The
Speaker 1: judge literally said, I'm sure you got some guns laying
Speaker 1: around right, good fund volunteers. It really was a why
Speaker 1: don't you just take them out back and shoot them?
Speaker 2: Literally, that is basically what it said, and that's our
Speaker 2: non legal way of summing it up. But that is
Speaker 2: what she said, yes, yes, and then the State of
Speaker 2: Alabama said, yeah, no, we can't do that. So look,
Speaker 2: they haven't specified how they're planning to carry out this execution,
Speaker 2: but they have made it clear that they are going
Speaker 2: to and if this happens, Look, if he were to
Speaker 2: die by nitrogen gas, he would become the ninth person
Speaker 2: in this country, only the ninth person in this country
Speaker 2: to die by nitrogen hypoxia, that's what they call it.
Speaker 2: So seven have already died in Alabama that way, one
Speaker 2: in Louisiana.
Speaker 3: So look, this is.
Speaker 2: Alabama's first execution of the year, and wow, has it
Speaker 2: already just been embroiled in controversy.
Speaker 1: There have been several robes, and I don't know, we
Speaker 1: there sometimes feels, I don't know, some momentum towards paying
Speaker 1: closer attention to stories and robes. Sometimes clemency in some
Speaker 1: of these that takes the death penalty off the table,
Speaker 1: when sometimes basic fairness, Wait, the guy who pulled the
Speaker 1: trigger is got life in prison, but the guy who
Speaker 1: didn't pull the trigger is going to death. Row some
Speaker 1: of that robes when you examine a case I think
Speaker 1: some basic fairness and even some Republican governors have stepped in.
Speaker 2: And impressive to see people, yes, actually take clear, hard
Speaker 2: looks at these cases and not just assume rubber stamp
Speaker 2: the death sentence.
Speaker 1: So maybe we're seeing some kind of a shift, maybe
Speaker 1: some kind of a momentum shift in the country right
Speaker 1: now with executions. And you and I absolutely do cover
Speaker 1: every single one of them.
Speaker 2: We have certainly in the last couple of years, and
Speaker 2: it has been fascinating to witness and to watch how
Speaker 2: each one develops.
Speaker 3: And it's a long and winding road.
Speaker 2: Now, just to remind everybody, because it's always important when
Speaker 2: we're talking about these cases, just to say, here Lee
Speaker 2: was found guilty and he has fully admitted to the
Speaker 2: double murder back in two thousand of Jimmy Ellis and
Speaker 2: Elaine Thompson. He was in the process of a robbery
Speaker 2: and he just shot up the place. He nearly killed
Speaker 2: Helen King, who was also there working behind the counter.
Speaker 2: She was the one who was able to call nine
Speaker 2: to one one and lock the door so he couldn't
Speaker 2: come back in which he tried to.
Speaker 3: So look, this.
Speaker 2: Man at the time was twenty one and he took
Speaker 2: two souls from this earth viciously and really randomly, because
Speaker 2: they did nothing to him. He didn't even get away
Speaker 2: with any money at the end of this. But look,
Speaker 2: it does appear if you listen into Alabama, he is
Speaker 2: going to pay.
Speaker 3: The ultimate price for those crimes tonight. We're just not
Speaker 3: sure how, and we're just not sure.
Speaker 2: When at this point, because I don't know how long
Speaker 2: you wait for the Supreme Court.
Speaker 3: If they even have to wait for the Supreme Court.
Speaker 2: It's really a little They can just move forward if
Speaker 2: they've got the lethal injection drugs ready.
Speaker 3: That's how Lee will likely die tonight.
Speaker 1: Supreme Court doesn't have to say a word at all,
Speaker 1: so they can move forward. So unless there's Supreme Court no,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, whatever decision it is, won't stop the execution.
Speaker 2: And if they don't say anything, it would appear that
Speaker 2: Alabama can no longer use nitrogen gas to execute its
Speaker 2: death row in it.
Speaker 1: Yes, is that going to get challenged later? I'm sure
Speaker 1: this is a fascinating one. But yeah, we're keeping an
Speaker 1: eye on this one all day. We all appreciate you
Speaker 1: just spending some time here with us. Former dear Amy robot.
Speaker 1: I'm t J. Holmes. Will talk to they all soon.
Speaker 2: M h m m m
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