WEBVTT - How Will Jeffrey Lee Die Tonight?

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, that folks. It is Thursday, June eleventh, and an

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<v Speaker 1>execution is scheduled for tonight, but we still don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if it's going to go forward after some last minute

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<v Speaker 1>back and forth legal wrangling and maybe even a landmark

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<v Speaker 1>court decision in there as well. And with all that,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes. This

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<v Speaker 1>is not just about this one case. This could be enormous.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a fascinating They all seem to be robes

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<v Speaker 1>have turned out to be, but this is one of

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<v Speaker 1>the most fascinating executions we've covered.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true, and we are still unclear right now at

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<v Speaker 2>the time of this recording whether or not Jeffrey Lee

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<v Speaker 2>will die tonight.

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<v Speaker 3>In the state of Alabama.

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<v Speaker 2>We have been following this now for a couple of days,

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<v Speaker 2>but there was a new development last night Wednesday night,

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<v Speaker 2>a federal appeals court upheld that decision.

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<v Speaker 3>And we told you.

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<v Speaker 2>About earlier by that Alabama judge who blocked the state

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<v Speaker 2>from using nitrogen gas for tonight's execution. So when the

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<v Speaker 2>judge made that decision, the state immediately appealed it, and

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<v Speaker 2>late yesterday we got word from the appeals court that

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<v Speaker 2>they are upholding that judge's decision that it is cruel

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<v Speaker 2>and unusual and unconstitutional.

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<v Speaker 1>So as we sit here, Alabama is not allowed to

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<v Speaker 1>use its preferred method, which is nitrogen gas, to go

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<v Speaker 1>forward with the execution. Sol Robes, I guess we have

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<v Speaker 1>two options we are looking at possibly now, one the

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court, two Alabama just going ahead and doing the execution.

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<v Speaker 1>So Robes, where should we start here this case, Now

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<v Speaker 1>where it sits, it could be up to the Supreme

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<v Speaker 1>Court to make a decision not about staying the execution,

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<v Speaker 1>but about whether or not they can use nitrogen gas.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, Because yes, the fate of how Jeffrey Lee is

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<v Speaker 2>going to die is now in the hands of the

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court, it appears, because that is the most likely

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<v Speaker 2>next step, because yes, when this Appeals Court back to

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<v Speaker 2>the judge who said Alabama could not execute Lee this way,

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<v Speaker 2>now they are asking the Supreme Court to step in.

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<v Speaker 2>And there is precedent here. The Supreme Court has previously

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<v Speaker 2>cited with the state of Alabama to allow nitrogen executions

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<v Speaker 2>to proceed after last minute appeals. So there are decisions

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<v Speaker 2>that we can look to where the Supreme Court, in

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<v Speaker 2>a very similar situation, has said, you know what, Alabama,

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<v Speaker 2>you can go ahead and use the gas.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow wow. So that's one option. The Supreme Court, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>can choose not to get involved, correct and this in

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<v Speaker 1>the courts. So the decision that stays that will stay

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<v Speaker 1>in place is the one that says Alabama can't use

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<v Speaker 1>nitrogen gas. So robes what does the state of Alabama

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<v Speaker 1>do if they get to execution time and they can't

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<v Speaker 1>use gas.

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<v Speaker 2>So we heard directly from Governor k Ivy's office after

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<v Speaker 2>the appeal was denied, and this is what the official

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<v Speaker 2>response was from the governor. As Alabama continues to defend

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<v Speaker 2>its execution protocol in the courts, the Governor remains prepared

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<v Speaker 2>to move forward with the planned execution.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't say anything about the method.

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<v Speaker 3>Didn't say how.

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<v Speaker 2>And look, they have lethal injection in the state of

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<v Speaker 2>Alabama and they have an electric chair.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, come on.

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<v Speaker 2>We talked about the electric chair in an episode yesterday.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're interested in that, please check that one out

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<v Speaker 2>because we talked about Yellow Mama, big yellow electric chair.

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<v Speaker 3>It is horrible.

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<v Speaker 2>It's frightening to look at because it's so sunny and cheerful,

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<v Speaker 2>literally painted with the Highway Department yellow paint they use

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<v Speaker 2>to make those yellow lines on the highway.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's bright, think cheery.

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<v Speaker 1>Think big bird in the form of furniture.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, except for it kills you.

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<v Speaker 1>It looks like we've talked about those Adirondack chairs when

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<v Speaker 1>you go out of doing vacation.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the most disturbing thing that is I have seen recently.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, so.

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<v Speaker 2>That's there, but it literally would have to be dusted off.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't seem like that's a viable option.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty two years, I think you said.

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<v Speaker 3>Twenty something years. It's been two decades plus.

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<v Speaker 2>So look, they do and they have absolutely successfully executed

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<v Speaker 2>inmates using the lethal injection method.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just look, it's been complicated. There have been issues

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<v Speaker 3>with that.

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<v Speaker 2>So in order to try and find another humane way

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<v Speaker 2>to execute inmates, Alabama as of twenty twenty four, has

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<v Speaker 2>been executing inmates using nitrogen gas. So Jeffrey Lee filed

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<v Speaker 2>an appeal. This is how this all began, saying it's

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<v Speaker 2>cruel and unusual, and now he's got a judge and

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<v Speaker 2>an appeals backing that up. And he had some reaction

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<v Speaker 2>to that news. He told NBC News it's like an

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<v Speaker 2>expected sigh of relief in one aspect, and then you

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<v Speaker 2>still got to stay and maintain your focus and continue

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<v Speaker 2>to fight.

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<v Speaker 3>Fear not. I am not finished. And just you know,

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<v Speaker 3>to me, my faith is everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Fight, the fight is what The fight is to stay alive,

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<v Speaker 1>or the fight is to die the way I want

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<v Speaker 1>to die? What is the fight?

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<v Speaker 2>It probably both. The preferred would be to not die.

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<v Speaker 2>But he does say I don't fear dying because I

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<v Speaker 2>know where I would be. He has talked about he's

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<v Speaker 2>expressed remorse for the killing, so he's not denying that

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<v Speaker 2>he's murdered these two people in a pawn shop all

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<v Speaker 2>those years ago, some thirty years ago. But he is

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<v Speaker 2>now a Christian, and so he says he knows where

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<v Speaker 2>he is going. But he said, God, he's not finished.

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<v Speaker 2>He's still working not only on my behalf, but on

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<v Speaker 2>the other brother's behalf that.

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<v Speaker 3>Are still facing this situation.

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<v Speaker 2>And he's referring to the other men on death row,

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<v Speaker 2>who also if this case does not change how Alabama

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<v Speaker 2>executes men will also die by nitrogen gas.

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<v Speaker 3>Likely.

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<v Speaker 1>Um, and I was sorry, I'm stuck on a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of the soundbites you were reading there. Do you say

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<v Speaker 1>he doesn't fear death.

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<v Speaker 3>He said, I don't fear dying.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't fear dying, just he fears how he crying

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<v Speaker 1>to die.

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<v Speaker 3>Correct.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, to that point, he talked about hearing how

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<v Speaker 2>his friends died by nitrogen gas before him. He said,

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<v Speaker 2>I was raised up around those guys because when I

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<v Speaker 2>first got to the row, I was twenty three years old,

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<v Speaker 2>just turning twenty four when we heard what they went through. Man,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like losing a family member.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, twenty three twenty four.

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<v Speaker 3>Heard he was forty nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, okay, have they been using nitro's in gas for

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<v Speaker 1>a year a year and a.

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<v Speaker 2>Half, Okay, But I guess he's known them for that long, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and they So there were seven inmates in that year

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<v Speaker 2>and a half in the state of Alabama who he

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<v Speaker 2>was on death row with who died by nitrogen gas.

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<v Speaker 2>And there are some pretty difficult witness accounts of what

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<v Speaker 2>they went through. One witness account even described ten minutes

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<v Speaker 2>of suffering.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds, yes, suffocating, sounds awful. That's what. It chokes

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<v Speaker 1>off oxygen to your cells by feeding you nitrogen gas,

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<v Speaker 1>introducing that is the only thing you're breathing instead of

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<v Speaker 1>oxygen and yes, Robes, that sounds horrific to be taking

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<v Speaker 1>in air of some kind and yet you cannot breathe.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that sounds pretty awful.

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds awful.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to be interesting what the Supreme Court does,

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<v Speaker 2>if anything, because yes, you heard, we told you what

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<v Speaker 2>the judge said. Then the Appeals Court actually their official

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<v Speaker 2>language when they ruled in favor of the judge said

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<v Speaker 2>nitrogen hypoxia is likely unconstant institutional method for carrying out

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<v Speaker 2>the death penalty, so.

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<v Speaker 3>They use the word likely.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just curious with the Supreme Court if they will

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<v Speaker 2>rule differently than they have in the past, given the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that now you've got two courts saying it's likely

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<v Speaker 2>unconstituted likely but likely? Was the out maybe the off ramp,

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<v Speaker 2>the legal off ramp that the Supreme Court could use.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure, but.

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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like it gives Alabama a legal on ramp

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to go ahead with the plan.

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<v Speaker 2>But it upheld the judge's decision to create a permanent

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<v Speaker 2>stop on nitrogen hypoxia.

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<v Speaker 1>So, and that in itself is a big deal. Robe,

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<v Speaker 1>because no state is going to now start using this method.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you said Louisiana was Louisiana are the one

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<v Speaker 1>who had so this method of execution could possibly be

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<v Speaker 1>on its way out already if other courts rule this

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<v Speaker 1>way road this is so it goes. It has impacts

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<v Speaker 1>far beyond Jeffrey Lee and whatever happens to him tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>And again Rose by the statement you read, it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like the governors has a backup plan.

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<v Speaker 2>The Governor's office has not wavered once when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to this case, in particular because there have been a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of different reasons why folks who are in Jeffrey

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<v Speaker 2>Lee's camp have said he shouldn't be executed. The nitrodrink

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<v Speaker 2>gas was just the one that actually got the attention

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<v Speaker 2>or at least got some legs in terms of perhaps delaying,

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<v Speaker 2>halting or altering how he's going to die. Nothing else

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<v Speaker 2>has worked so far. But the governor in this case,

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<v Speaker 2>who has pardoned two inmates in her nine years not pardoned,

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<v Speaker 2>excuse me, stayed the execution of two death row inmates.

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<v Speaker 2>Given her nine years in office, there's a big distinction

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<v Speaker 2>between the two. But she has been very clear, repeatedly

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<v Speaker 2>clear that she is not going to intervene and she

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<v Speaker 2>is not going to stop this execution, and in fact

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<v Speaker 2>pretty strong language they're saying they will carry this out

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<v Speaker 2>this evening.

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<v Speaker 1>Then that means they have lethal injection ready to go.

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<v Speaker 3>They must have that plan in place. But as you

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<v Speaker 3>point out.

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<v Speaker 2>What the Supreme Court decides on this case isn't just

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<v Speaker 2>about Jeffrey Lee. This does have the potential to change

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<v Speaker 2>how states are either currently executing folks or are potentially

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<v Speaker 2>planning on executing folks.

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<v Speaker 1>There is nothing out standing in court right now that

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<v Speaker 1>is challenging the execution itself. No one is trying to

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<v Speaker 1>stop it on some grounds having to do with the case.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just having to do with how he is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be killed. So Robes, I am here we go again.

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<v Speaker 1>We're on day of execution and we're watching o'clock this Ye,

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to go for.

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<v Speaker 3>TikTok, TikTok.

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<v Speaker 2>When we come back, we're going to tell you more

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<v Speaker 2>about who has died by this method of execution and

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<v Speaker 2>a reminder of the crime that Jeffrey Lee was convicted of.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to everyone to this episode of Amy and

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<v Speaker 2>TJ where right now, as of this recording, we are

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<v Speaker 2>waiting to see if Jeffrey Lee will die tonight, and

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<v Speaker 2>if so, how he will die tonight. Those are two

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<v Speaker 2>questions that aren't exactly clear. Look, if you ask the

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<v Speaker 2>state of Alabama, if you ask the Governor's office, they

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<v Speaker 2>will tell you Jeffrey Lee is.

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<v Speaker 3>Going to be executed tonight. At least that's what we

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<v Speaker 3>have heard. However, there are.

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<v Speaker 2>Several things percolating right now, and the big question is

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<v Speaker 2>what will the Supreme Court do, if anything, Will they

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<v Speaker 2>hear this case, will they step in, will they make

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<v Speaker 2>a ruling, a judgment about nitrogen gas?

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<v Speaker 3>And how will that affect this case? It's unclear right now.

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<v Speaker 1>They have to have the drugs ready for lethal injection.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know what the rules are about alerting the

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<v Speaker 1>inmate of how he's going to die. I assume there's

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<v Speaker 1>some rule for that. But Robes, he doesn't want nitrogen gas.

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<v Speaker 1>He might get his wish.

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<v Speaker 2>He wants firing squad, but he doesn't want lethal injection either.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think, but Robes, what if he walks into

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<v Speaker 1>a room and sees a big ass yellow chair.

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<v Speaker 3>My god, I cannot even imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>I do not know what method. I cannot imagine that

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<v Speaker 1>still is legal.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems as though the State of Alabama can execute

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<v Speaker 2>him with the remaining two options, and that was made

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<v Speaker 2>abundantly clear and in the judge's order that this appeal

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<v Speaker 2>SQURD has now upheld. She actually made a comment about

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<v Speaker 2>the firing squad and said, yeah, that actually does seem

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<v Speaker 2>like it wouldn't cause unnecessary pain and suffering if you've

0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.520
<v Speaker 2>got four bullets to the heart or at least marksman

0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.719
<v Speaker 2>and the State of Alabama was very quick in their

0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:57.400
<v Speaker 2>response to that judge saying, yet, we don't have anything

0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:01.040
<v Speaker 2>in place to suddenly create a fire ring squad, to

0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 2>have trained assassins basically.

0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:04.040
<v Speaker 3>At the ready.

0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.680
<v Speaker 2>We can't just pull this out of our butts a

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 2>day before a scheduled execution. So, like the the attorney

0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:13.240
<v Speaker 2>the Attorney General pushed back hard and said, yeah, that's

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.840
<v Speaker 2>not happening. So I'm glad you all think the firing

0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.640
<v Speaker 2>squad is good, but we can't.

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:18.040
<v Speaker 3>Pull that off.

0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:22.120
<v Speaker 1>That was fascinating to see. Sure you got it. The

0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.360
<v Speaker 1>judge literally said, I'm sure you got some guns laying

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.760
<v Speaker 1>around right, good fund volunteers. It really was a why

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:30.439
<v Speaker 1>don't you just take them out back and shoot them?

0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Literally, that is basically what it said, and that's our

0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.640
<v Speaker 2>non legal way of summing it up. But that is

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 2>what she said, yes, yes, and then the State of

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Alabama said, yeah, no, we can't do that. So look,

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:47.040
<v Speaker 2>they haven't specified how they're planning to carry out this execution,

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:48.880
<v Speaker 2>but they have made it clear that they are going

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:52.760
<v Speaker 2>to and if this happens, Look, if he were to

0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.959
<v Speaker 2>die by nitrogen gas, he would become the ninth person

0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.800
<v Speaker 2>in this country, only the ninth person in this country

0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.640
<v Speaker 2>to die by nitrogen hypoxia, that's what they call it.

0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 2>So seven have already died in Alabama that way, one

0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>in Louisiana.

0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 3>So look, this is.

0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.679
<v Speaker 2>Alabama's first execution of the year, and wow, has it

0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.760
<v Speaker 2>already just been embroiled in controversy.

0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.520
<v Speaker 1>There have been several robes, and I don't know, we

0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.960
<v Speaker 1>there sometimes feels, I don't know, some momentum towards paying

0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:32.080
<v Speaker 1>closer attention to stories and robes. Sometimes clemency in some

0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.200
<v Speaker 1>of these that takes the death penalty off the table,

0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>when sometimes basic fairness, Wait, the guy who pulled the

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 1>trigger is got life in prison, but the guy who

0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 1>didn't pull the trigger is going to death. Row some

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.360
<v Speaker 1>of that robes when you examine a case I think

0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.480
<v Speaker 1>some basic fairness and even some Republican governors have stepped in.

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 2>And impressive to see people, yes, actually take clear, hard

0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.800
<v Speaker 2>looks at these cases and not just assume rubber stamp

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:01.920
<v Speaker 2>the death sentence.

0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>So maybe we're seeing some kind of a shift, maybe

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.120
<v Speaker 1>some kind of a momentum shift in the country right

0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>now with executions. And you and I absolutely do cover

0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 1>every single one of them.

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 2>We have certainly in the last couple of years, and

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.480
<v Speaker 2>it has been fascinating to witness and to watch how

0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.119
<v Speaker 2>each one develops.

0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 3>And it's a long and winding road.

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Now, just to remind everybody, because it's always important when

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.160
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about these cases, just to say, here Lee

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.720
<v Speaker 2>was found guilty and he has fully admitted to the

0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.320
<v Speaker 2>double murder back in two thousand of Jimmy Ellis and

0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Elaine Thompson. He was in the process of a robbery

0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 2>and he just shot up the place. He nearly killed

0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.280
<v Speaker 2>Helen King, who was also there working behind the counter.

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 2>She was the one who was able to call nine

0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 2>to one one and lock the door so he couldn't

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 2>come back in which he tried to.

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:53.040
<v Speaker 3>So look, this.

0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Man at the time was twenty one and he took

0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:02.160
<v Speaker 2>two souls from this earth viciously and really randomly, because

0:16:02.200 --> 0:16:04.320
<v Speaker 2>they did nothing to him. He didn't even get away

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:06.640
<v Speaker 2>with any money at the end of this. But look,

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 2>it does appear if you listen into Alabama, he is

0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 2>going to pay.

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 3>The ultimate price for those crimes tonight. We're just not

0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.000
<v Speaker 3>sure how, and we're just not sure.

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.080
<v Speaker 2>When at this point, because I don't know how long

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 2>you wait for the Supreme Court.

0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.880
<v Speaker 3>If they even have to wait for the Supreme Court.

0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 2>It's really a little They can just move forward if

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 2>they've got the lethal injection drugs ready.

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 3>That's how Lee will likely die tonight.

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court doesn't have to say a word at all,

0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 1>so they can move forward. So unless there's Supreme Court no,

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.360
<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court, whatever decision it is, won't stop the execution.

0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.000
<v Speaker 2>And if they don't say anything, it would appear that

0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Alabama can no longer use nitrogen gas to execute its

0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 2>death row in it.

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, is that going to get challenged later? I'm sure

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.960
<v Speaker 1>this is a fascinating one. But yeah, we're keeping an

0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.520
<v Speaker 1>eye on this one all day. We all appreciate you

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 1>just spending some time here with us. Former dear Amy robot.

0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm t J. Holmes. Will talk to they all soon.

0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:06.960
<v Speaker 2>M h m m m

0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 3>M hm