Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 1: These are our stories, done done. Hello, Welcome back to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klank.
Speaker 2: And I'm Liza Traeger and we every week talk about
Speaker 2: an episode of SVU and then the true crime it's
Speaker 2: based on, and we interview a guest from the episode.
Speaker 1: So jam packed. But now we just chit chat because
Speaker 1: we miss each.
Speaker 3: Other and now it's time to banter.
Speaker 1: We've been getting a couple of messages and comments about
Speaker 1: our voices and people can't tell us apart, which I
Speaker 1: think is so funny because I really think we sound
Speaker 1: so different.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Sound more proper, and I feel like I sound like
Speaker 2: I smoked weed every day for a decade. So that's
Speaker 2: where I think my voice is.
Speaker 1: I was. I always thought I had a raspy voice,
Speaker 1: but yours is definitely raspy are but mine is too.
Speaker 3: I think I don't know.
Speaker 2: I always thought I was like the nanny, but I
Speaker 2: don't think it's that extreme. I think it's just like
Speaker 2: maybe my own jew hatred or something of myself. I
Speaker 2: don't know, but when I hear myself, I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: the Nanny.
Speaker 1: I love that fran Dresser. That show holds up. I
Speaker 1: don't know if anyone's watched it. Oh, that would be
Speaker 1: another poll on our instagram of what are you into
Speaker 1: the Nanny.
Speaker 2: The Nanny and Married with Children? All though those shows
Speaker 2: really test time.
Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstark just tweeted recently and was like, why were
Speaker 1: our parents letting us watch Married with Children when we
Speaker 1: were younger, like like that was a normal way to
Speaker 1: look at a marriage or a family like and I
Speaker 1: used to watch it religiously and my parents, I think
Speaker 1: I did it behind their back because they thought it
Speaker 1: was like really cross.
Speaker 2: But I also meet lots of people who like their
Speaker 2: parents didn't let them watch The Simpsons.
Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to watch Threes Company. I wasn't allowed
Speaker 1: to watch you can't do that on television because my
Speaker 1: mom thought that when you got slimed, that was gross.
Speaker 3: I feel like it's just like on.
Speaker 1: A day where they're like, turn the TV off, You're
Speaker 1: not allowed to watch the show anymore. Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think they're just like having a time sometimes.
Speaker 2: Well, I was a professional backup nanny for years in Chicago.
Speaker 1: Amy got bragging.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I've baby said.
Speaker 2: I would like to say probably like a hundred plus families,
Speaker 2: And my professional take is the families that had the
Speaker 2: most extreme television rules their kids were the most crazed
Speaker 2: and obsessed with TV, and the families that it was free,
Speaker 2: reign whatever, no one cares.
Speaker 1: They would buy themselves, choose not.
Speaker 3: To watch to do something else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like to them, TV was just an option, so
Speaker 2: they didn't care as much. But that the kids that
Speaker 2: only got a half hour, they were like I would, well,
Speaker 2: I was kind of sometimes bad at my job, and
Speaker 2: so I would pretend to nap but then kind of
Speaker 2: really nap, and then I would hear them be like
Speaker 2: should we wake her up?
Speaker 3: Or should we?
Speaker 1: And then they would continue to watch television instead of
Speaker 1: telling me I've told you that.
Speaker 3: I used to babysit for the actress Alison Williams.
Speaker 1: Wait, but what do you mean Alison Williams. Alison Williams
Speaker 1: who was like in Get Out and Stuff and like
Speaker 1: like Brian Williams daughter. Yeah, so I used to babysit
Speaker 1: for her a few times when I was younger. She's
Speaker 1: not that much younger than me, but like it was
Speaker 1: one of those things where like I was twelve and
Speaker 1: she was eight or something or seven.
Speaker 3: They were the best kids, Like they were so good, so.
Speaker 1: Like they were not allowed to watch anything on Nickelodeon,
Speaker 1: like I guess, especially like yeah, just led the night
Speaker 1: time stuff on Nickelodeon. They were not allowed to watch.
Speaker 1: But I let them watch Ren and Stimpy one time,
Speaker 1: and I was like, don't telling me, don't tell your parents.
Speaker 1: And they told their parents, of course, because there were
Speaker 1: like these honest children, but children don't understand lying in
Speaker 1: that way. They're always never trust a child, you know.
Speaker 1: He was like, I'll let you watch Ren and Stimpy
Speaker 1: if you don't tell your parents, and then they were
Speaker 1: like okay, and then and they were like, guess what
Speaker 1: we watched Ren and Dimpy like and so I sort
Speaker 1: of learned to never try to get kids to harbor
Speaker 1: my secrets anymore.
Speaker 3: Wait, but then, were you fired or did they just
Speaker 3: say what?
Speaker 1: We were like sort of family friends, Like I didn't
Speaker 1: get fired. They were just like and remember, no Nickelodeon.
Speaker 1: They mentioned that you let them watch ren and Simpy,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh did I okay, so.
Speaker 2: Wait, did she have a good voice? Did you know
Speaker 2: that she was going to be an actress?
Speaker 1: You know what's so funny is her we used to
Speaker 1: do Disney singalong songs like where you follow the Bouncing Mouse?
Speaker 1: Like we used to do that all the time. And
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know she was going to be
Speaker 1: an actress. No, I certainly didn't.
Speaker 2: I loved those videos. We did those in elementary school.
Speaker 2: Mister House was my music teacher. Oh shout out, I
Speaker 2: hope you're still kicking. But he had favorites and I
Speaker 2: didn't like that. So if you're listening, mister House, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't have had favorites. It really fucked with our heads.
Speaker 2: I do have a big shout out. What yesterday on
Speaker 2: my walk I saw a dog with a bow and
Speaker 2: that's going to carry me through the week that it was.
Speaker 1: And in the same week, one of your friends told
Speaker 1: you that you remind them of the pink aristocrat aristocrat cat.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, aristocats cat. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Lily, my old roommate and friend, she out of the
Speaker 2: blue text to me a photo that the cutest cat
Speaker 2: in the world from aristocats, going, Oh, you just remind
Speaker 2: me so much of her. I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I'm obviously gonna get.
Speaker 1: A tattoo of this king a dog with a bow.
Speaker 3: What a week.
Speaker 2: Well, and also my favorite Instagram. Every outfit of Sex
Speaker 2: and the City is a fan of sview and listens
Speaker 2: to this podcast, and they followed me on Instagram, which
Speaker 2: was a big deal for me as well.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yeah, if you're a Sex had a
Speaker 1: Baby fan, you should follow them. They're very clever and fun.
Speaker 2: And fashion experts, so you get like actual, it's not
Speaker 2: just like I like this outfit, like they know the designer,
Speaker 2: the references. They would actually be really good judges on
Speaker 2: Drag Race. If I'm being honest.
Speaker 3: Are you loving Season thirteen of Drag Race?
Speaker 1: I'm loving it. I love when no one goes home.
Speaker 1: So these episodes have been great. Yeah, well they've been
Speaker 1: doing that the past couple of years because I think
Speaker 1: they want people to get to know the queens a
Speaker 1: little bit better.
Speaker 2: No, I love it. I love the future drama coming up.
Speaker 2: I'm also obsessed with the pit Stop now and where
Speaker 2: they recap the show.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just can't get enough. My life is just.
Speaker 1: SVU and drag Race at this point, I really am not.
Speaker 1: I haven't even watched Euphoria yet.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I'm just fully sv drag Race. And yesterday Bob the
Speaker 2: drag Queen just said the name Jada Essence Hall and
Speaker 2: I burst into tears.
Speaker 1: I saw you cheat about that.
Speaker 3: I was like, please, everything okay over there?
Speaker 2: No, I just fully started crying at just the existence
Speaker 2: of Jada.
Speaker 3: It was just really emotional.
Speaker 1: I just love her so much.
Speaker 3: She's great. Are you liking the season?
Speaker 1: Loving it? I think there's so many good queens and
Speaker 1: it's really creative how they did the first couple episodes
Speaker 1: and I'm loving it.
Speaker 2: Did you see the meme where it says like it's
Speaker 2: RuPaul she goes welcome to the Stanford Prison Experiment, which
Speaker 2: I thought was a funny, mean because she did toy
Speaker 2: with their emotions floating doc.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited to see what happens next week.
Speaker 2: And everyone seems to have a favorite. Everyone loves Simone
Speaker 2: and I love you know.
Speaker 1: It's like I love Simone, I love got Mic, and
Speaker 1: I love Candy Muse a lot as well. Candy Muse
Speaker 1: is not going to win, and you know it. I
Speaker 1: I can only love the person that wins.
Speaker 3: I just think she's fun.
Speaker 1: No, this is like winners only get the hell out of.
Speaker 2: We also do have another shout out to our producer Hannah.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Hannah. Hannah had a moment this week.
Speaker 2: Who scoured Capital storming photos for twelve hours to find
Speaker 2: a photo of a QAnon person that she knows, not personally,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, she's not friends with this person,
Speaker 2: to find a photo of her and report her to
Speaker 2: the FBI. So that is some amazing event stigative.
Speaker 1: Reporting helping put away one Capital storming crazy person at
Speaker 1: a time. Thank you, well, yeah you.
Speaker 2: And the photo of her was very fucked up and
Speaker 2: she was holding a sign that said Kyle Rittenhouse did
Speaker 2: nothing wrong. So I hope the FBI fucking knocks on
Speaker 2: her door storms it. I actually love all the famous
Speaker 2: people being outed because it's that's what they talk about
Speaker 2: with the entitled like they didn't think anything was gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Like a US Olympic swimmer wore his US Olympics sweat
Speaker 2: like jacket. He wore an official Olympics jacket to storm
Speaker 2: the Capitol, like only ten people have that jacket, dude,
Speaker 2: like you're gonna get found out. And then someone was like,
Speaker 2: that's Sicky from New Jersey Housewives.
Speaker 1: Like people like all Sniggy's gone full. Siggy's gone full
Speaker 1: Q She's she's off the desk end. But people are
Speaker 1: reporting her to the FBI because they're like, we know her.
Speaker 1: Like people just truly were wearing things with their.
Speaker 2: Name on it. I mean, it's it's real. It's a pleasure.
Speaker 2: I wish I had a Bingo card of arrests, but
Speaker 2: that would be fun, all right, So let's just get
Speaker 2: down to it. Today's episode is really fun. We're going
Speaker 2: to be doing I mean fun and fucked up as usual.
Speaker 2: We're going to be doing a credo, which is based
Speaker 2: on the Nexium cult. And I just wanted to mention
Speaker 2: that when we recorded this, I was in the middle
Speaker 2: of watching the Vow. Now I have obviously finished the Vow.
Speaker 2: I have also finished Seduced on Stars. And when I
Speaker 2: tell you that, I did get a one month free
Speaker 2: trial of Stars just so I could watch this, and
Speaker 2: actually paid for a month of Stars so I could
Speaker 2: watch this, it was worth it. So the one on
Speaker 2: Stars is so freaking good. If you thought the one
Speaker 2: on HBO Dragged the Stars Once Seduced is so good.
Speaker 2: They have India if you know you know, and a Credo.
Speaker 2: By the way, Lisa and I were talking about this
Speaker 2: because I was wondering what it meant and I googled it,
Speaker 2: and of course it is a pharmaceutical company.
Speaker 1: But the word comes from the verb to believe, so
Speaker 1: I think it means to believe in something wholeheartedly and
Speaker 1: like fully. So that's very interesting when you find out
Speaker 1: what this episode is about. So let's get into the episode. Okay,
Speaker 1: so exciting, a little switcheroo freaky Friday action.
Speaker 3: I'm doing the episode, which is thrilling.
Speaker 2: We have a later episode, season twenty, episode five, Acredo
Speaker 2: Yes kind of Timely is based on you know, the vow,
Speaker 2: which was really popular. So this episode opens up with
Speaker 2: our Queen Bee, Olivia Benson, so busy, a lieutenant, a baby,
Speaker 2: and she's working.
Speaker 3: Out trying to stay snatched.
Speaker 2: I cannot believe this bitch found time to work out
Speaker 2: with a hot trainer hat as hell. Yeah, really muscular dude.
Speaker 2: They have flirty energy. I hope he becomes the love interest.
Speaker 2: But she's like proving she's like I'll run to my
Speaker 2: car because I don't have time, you know. But yeah,
Speaker 2: she I was eating a sandwich while watching this and
Speaker 2: she has so much to do working out, and then
Speaker 2: we go to this I don't know, a nice mansion
Speaker 2: looking house, a nice Victorian looking living room with hot,
Speaker 2: hot women, which makes me because I always think all
Speaker 2: actors are so hot, but then seeing these people, it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: they're so hot and how regular everyone else looks on SVU.
Speaker 3: Is that rude?
Speaker 1: No, I think because I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: times they try to get people that don't look like actors,
Speaker 1: but then when they do something that is specifically about
Speaker 1: beautiful people, they're like, okay, bring in like the super
Speaker 1: hot actresses. It just it it changed everything for me,
Speaker 1: or like, wow, these are the hot so you know,
Speaker 1: you could say this is a hot girl convention. Claudia
Speaker 1: is the hostess and it's her house, and then there's
Speaker 1: a lead, like thin looking, blonde woman and her name
Speaker 1: is Lydia Lyra something like that.
Speaker 3: I wrote it down somewhere.
Speaker 1: I think it's Lydia Leilah Lia, Lyla, Lyla.
Speaker 3: It's a dumb name.
Speaker 2: I feel like fifteen years ago, that's what people name
Speaker 2: their children to be unique and now whatever.
Speaker 1: So Lilah Lilah. Yeah, okay, So we.
Speaker 2: Have Lilah, and then there's a girl with like darker
Speaker 2: lipstick and liner and like her roots are showing, so
Speaker 2: we could tell that she's troubled and this trying because
Speaker 2: of her darker room, you know what I mean, everyone's
Speaker 2: put together.
Speaker 3: And then we have a little rough looking girl but
Speaker 3: still pretty.
Speaker 1: She's still pretty, but she's not quite as polished looking
Speaker 1: as the rest of them. Hats off to the wardrobe department.
Speaker 1: And here in makeup, they knew how to just subtly
Speaker 1: make it be like she's trying. Yeah, it's amazing. And
Speaker 1: then we you know, she's a punk punk energy.
Speaker 2: We figure out she had an abusive relationship and this
Speaker 2: group of women helped her achieve her dreams and get
Speaker 2: out of this relationship and she's stronger than ever. And
Speaker 2: then they're outside and a woman with a fashion hat
Speaker 2: and a peasant top comes out very I mean probably
Speaker 2: I think, the prettiest of them all, and you know,
Speaker 2: she's like.
Speaker 3: Let's do whatever. Lila comes out.
Speaker 2: Everyone wants to do lunch, and this girl's like, I
Speaker 2: gotta go, go, go, I'm not doing lunch with any
Speaker 2: of you. And then we see the rugged girl in
Speaker 2: her beautiful loft in Manhattan and she is on a lane.
Speaker 1: I truly saw it. It was like, what the hell? Like,
Speaker 1: who is this girl? Like she has like a massive
Speaker 1: soho apartment. It's nice, beautiful tub, beautiful tub.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, because so she's on the phone screaming to
Speaker 2: somebody leave me alone, stop calling me, get.
Speaker 3: Off my back.
Speaker 2: So it's like, is it this cult? Is it the
Speaker 2: ex boyfriend? Are these all red herrings? Is it another person?
Speaker 2: Svu loves to play games with us, But we see
Speaker 2: her screaming, and then it cuts to Benson talking about
Speaker 2: how many steps she was walked in the day. So
Speaker 2: that's a nice cut too. She has over twelve thousand steps.
Speaker 1: Bragging Benson just being one of those fitbit braggers.
Speaker 3: Oh and then Rawlins.
Speaker 1: I mean, I hope one day I don't hate Rawlins
Speaker 1: as much as I'm sad that you hate Rolands so much.
Speaker 1: I don't, like, I'm not obsessed with Rowlands like I'm
Speaker 1: with Benson, but I don't mind her.
Speaker 2: Besides, it's Danny. She might be my least favorite.
Speaker 3: Oh, Amorrow, you mean oh wait.
Speaker 2: No, Danny Beck. She was my least least favorite Rollin's.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I hope I grow out of my
Speaker 2: Rolins hate. But she's pregnant. She's hiding it, and she
Speaker 2: wants to see the NIXT game with the boys. But
Speaker 2: then there's like work to do, and she's like, I
Speaker 2: just hate this idea of like I want to work,
Speaker 2: and it's like, just be pregnant, just do some paperwork.
Speaker 3: That's Olivia says. She goes, you want to move furniture.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I just I don't understand it. She's like, take a break.
Speaker 2: So whatever she Rollins is just trying too hard.
Speaker 1: I just hate her.
Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, I'll move on. I'll move on.
Speaker 2: So whatever, Okay. So there's a call Raye Palm a
Speaker 2: side downtown. Benson looks amazing in a white T shirt,
Speaker 2: like she I love this white T shirt. It's this
Speaker 2: nice sheer with a pocket. I'm just into it. And
Speaker 2: her hair is in a banana clip, which is the
Speaker 2: most realistic thing about what's happening.
Speaker 1: She always looks too good, and it's like, yes, this bitch.
Speaker 2: Wears a banana clip sometimes with like she know she
Speaker 2: has the front tendrils of her hair, some front bangs,
Speaker 2: and then this is tough.
Speaker 1: We get to the crime scene. It is bloody.
Speaker 2: It's this girl, you know, roots and she's it's bloody. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and Rollins has topuke. Okay, she should have just gone
Speaker 2: to the fucking nixt game. I'm like, but whatever, she
Speaker 2: needs to puke. And then the guy cop is like,
Speaker 2: she gonna be okay, and it's like she's fucking press
Speaker 2: now I'm defending Rollins.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 2: It's a very bloody crime scene and yeah whatever, the
Speaker 2: credits are rolling. So then Finn Careesy Rollins. Everyone left
Speaker 2: the Knicks game. So I guess the game wasn't too good.
Speaker 3: You know, you never get a day off on us
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 2: And then what we see is they cut a piece
Speaker 2: of flesh from underneath.
Speaker 1: Like her ribcage.
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, I don't know what body part I was
Speaker 2: gonna say, I was like underneath somewhere, but yeah, so
Speaker 2: there's a piece of flesh, and to me, it's like,
Speaker 2: even if you were trying to hide some and now
Speaker 2: that's just brought us more attention to this thing. At
Speaker 2: least cut up a bunch of skin floor flesh pieces.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 2: I'll quote doctor Michael Batt until the cows come home.
Speaker 2: You know, killers usually leave something or take something, and
Speaker 2: with this flesh, it's both they took it and more clues.
Speaker 2: Richard and Marge own the house. That's what we learn.
Speaker 2: I don't know who these people are. It's oh, it's parents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're the parents of Abby, someone named Abby. Yes,
Speaker 1: because we still don't know the name of the main
Speaker 1: girl who has just been murdered. We don't know her
Speaker 1: name now. Yeah, yeah, it's not just my horrible note
Speaker 1: taking and paying attention skills.
Speaker 2: Did I pause this episode a lot to play text
Speaker 2: twist because I'm fully addicted.
Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Wait, can I say something about when I put pause
Speaker 1: this episode? So I have Hulu and I and I
Speaker 1: don't pay for the ad, I still get ads. Okay,
Speaker 1: I understand I should just like cough up two more
Speaker 1: dollars a month, but I can't. So when you pause
Speaker 1: on Hulu sometimes they give you a print ad over
Speaker 1: what you're watching. So literally, this girl is on the
Speaker 1: slab and they're about to identify her, these two parents
Speaker 1: from Connecticut to see if it's their daughter. I press
Speaker 1: pause and it's like eating good in the neighborhood, like
Speaker 1: a fucking Applebee's ad over a dead body. I'm like, Hulu,
Speaker 1: you have some class. Yeah, who is working in your
Speaker 1: marketing department? I got a sure, Chulu. No we're not religious,
Speaker 1: No we're not. That's from Housewives. Oh okay, okay.
Speaker 2: So this is one of the best SVU moments. The
Speaker 2: it's not their daughter. Yeah, you barely ever see that.
Speaker 2: You barely see it. It's great acting. It's a great
Speaker 2: moment of relief, and it's just awesome to see the
Speaker 2: parents be like, no, our daughter is alive. We figure
Speaker 2: out that their daughter is actually on a movie shoot
Speaker 2: and she's also part of this weird collective of women.
Speaker 2: And she let her friend with the roots stay at
Speaker 2: her apartment while she's shooting this movie or TV show.
Speaker 2: She's an actress, and she's wearing a handmaiden's tail out.
Speaker 1: It's a full handmaid's tail, like spoof this show, not spoof.
Speaker 3: But like brick but called scarlet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a costume you would get at
Speaker 2: party city.
Speaker 1: It can't be an official exactly. It would be like
Speaker 1: religious wife or dystopian future wife or something like that
Speaker 1: that's like what the costume would be called. I once
Speaker 1: got I was Linda from Bob's Burger's and it was
Speaker 1: burger wife. Supportive burger wife was the name of my costume.
Speaker 1: Supportive burger wife. Wait for what to play Linda from
Speaker 1: Bob's burger Oh my god, supportive Burgerway you do. Look
Speaker 1: you have the energy of a supportive burger wife.
Speaker 2: So, so we find out the girl's name that's dead,
Speaker 2: and her name is Vicky Parson and she broke up
Speaker 2: with her boyfriend, stayed at this girl's place. She doesn't
Speaker 2: really have parents, but she had been feeling better lately
Speaker 2: after this group. So a Credo is the name of
Speaker 2: the group, and Benson says, well, hopefully she's opened up
Speaker 2: to this female empowerment.
Speaker 1: Group because she's also given them a ton of money.
Speaker 1: She's written them like ten checks. Wow, yeah, okay, and
Speaker 1: then Rollins So Rollins is now they're walking up to
Speaker 1: this mansion to investigate if this group knows any information
Speaker 1: to help them find the killer, and Rollins goes, who
Speaker 1: knew there was this much money?
Speaker 3: And insecurity?
Speaker 2: Literally everybody knows makeup, plastic surgery, dieting, all billion dollar Industries.
Speaker 2: Rollins again, you prove what a fucking idiot you truly are. O,
Speaker 2: don't I wrote facts from Rollins?
Speaker 1: No, because I don't hate her the way you do nobody.
Speaker 2: But if she was a guest on our show one day,
Speaker 2: hopefully we'd love to get all.
Speaker 1: The cast members. I don't know what I would do.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, are you annoyed with Rollin's bad decision making?
Speaker 4: Too?
Speaker 2: How is this bitch a cop? She doesn't know insecurity
Speaker 2: makes money?
Speaker 1: Like that's so true, she's getting her hairs.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 1: I didn't think of that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: Do you wear makeup? Do you do anything that is
Speaker 1: targeted towards women? So we're talking to the fashion hat
Speaker 1: hot girl. She's wearing a studded a club or outfit
Speaker 1: in the middle of the afternoon for tea. There is
Speaker 1: a hot man in the middle and he's surrounded by
Speaker 1: wa like leading a meeting. He's leading this meeting. He's like,
Speaker 1: you're undeserving.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna find your truth, be feeling better, blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: I don't have bullshit. Okay, it's bullshit.
Speaker 2: And then he tries to read Rollin's and is like,
Speaker 2: who put that baby in your belly? And that sickens me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a freak if you say baby. And I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's the literation or what, but it creeps.
Speaker 1: Me out or his face also is just like lit
Speaker 1: up when he saw she was pregnant in a way
Speaker 1: that was so creepy. Like I had a couple of
Speaker 1: guys like like talk to me like that when I
Speaker 1: was pregnant.
Speaker 3: It's very freaky.
Speaker 1: There are some men that are truly very turned on
Speaker 1: by pregnancy.
Speaker 2: I know one person that he wants to fuck pregnant people.
Speaker 2: So the guy is like, who hurt you?
Speaker 3: Rollin?
Speaker 1: No one loves you, you bet you and your bastard baby,
Speaker 1: and Rollins is.
Speaker 2: Like, all right, I don't care, but where NYPD, shut
Speaker 2: your mouth, come and talk to us. So the main woman, Lila,
Speaker 2: she and the old man are like, oh no, what happened?
Speaker 2: And their acting is good. They're like, oh, poor Vicky,
Speaker 2: and they give name of the ex. His name is
Speaker 2: Brad Simon. He's a line cook at Lucky Duck and
Speaker 2: he's fucking hot, which.
Speaker 1: Of course Lyla knows. Oh her ex Brad Simon. He's
Speaker 1: a line cook at Lucky Duck. Like, if you asked
Speaker 1: me your ex, I'd be like, I I know it's
Speaker 1: this comic in Chicago, and I know.
Speaker 2: He was from seven years ago. It's different that, Like,
Speaker 2: if I talked about an abusive.
Speaker 1: Posture, I guess I would know who that was where
Speaker 1: they worked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2: It would be psychotic if I was talking about a
Speaker 2: seven year breakup Kara.
Speaker 3: He won't leave me alone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like so old. But he called her
Speaker 1: a slut bag.
Speaker 2: And posted all these photos of her online, like naked photos,
Speaker 2: and he just.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like here's the thing.
Speaker 1: He literally posts like beautiful, sexy, flattering photos of her
Speaker 1: and then is like, now everyone's gonna know what a
Speaker 1: slutbag you are. And I'm like, I guess, Like this
Speaker 1: is as bad as it can get. With revenge porn
Speaker 1: on network TV, you know they can't like also should not.
Speaker 3: Be using the term revenge porn.
Speaker 1: Why Katie Hill the canvast for her?
Speaker 3: I love her?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she wrote a piece for like Marie Clara
Speaker 2: Cosmo or something like that, and she goes first, revenge
Speaker 2: makes it seem like someone deserved it, and this is revenge.
Speaker 2: It's like you did something, and porn implies it's a
Speaker 2: consensual thing that happened for consumption and you got paid
Speaker 2: for it, and so.
Speaker 1: Both those words are wrong. Are wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no one deserves to get their shit leaked and
Speaker 2: know these people did not get paid for any that.
Speaker 1: That's what it's called. So what would you call it?
Speaker 2: Well, it's because men and the patriarch Aaron charge. The
Speaker 2: article said more should I have looked into it yet?
Speaker 2: But it's basically it's a crime. It's what it is,
Speaker 2: and it's not revenge porn. And we'll I don't know, look,
Speaker 2: we'll put it, we'll talk about it.
Speaker 1: So we're at Brad's apartment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's fucking hot, and he was like cutting a
Speaker 2: piece of salmon. It was just like but he's in
Speaker 2: the precinct. Really quickly he asks for.
Speaker 3: So he's denying.
Speaker 2: He's like what, I don't know, and then as soon
Speaker 2: as he sees the crime scene photos, he asks for
Speaker 2: a lawyer, which is really smart because I think because
Speaker 2: he saw the chunk of skin, he knew what had
Speaker 2: to do with this organization and he got scared. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's him like in that moment, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't I knew.
Speaker 1: It wasn't him. I just so whatever. He asks for
Speaker 1: a lawyer really quick. That's shut down.
Speaker 2: So then we cut to the apartment and Finn and
Speaker 2: Careesi are looking for evidence and Finn finds a knife
Speaker 2: in the dishwasher and acts like that's suspicious and he
Speaker 2: found the best evidence in the world. But that's not
Speaker 2: suspicious to me. A knife and a dishwasher seems totally fine.
Speaker 2: But that's why they're detectives and I am not, and
Speaker 2: I'm just judging them.
Speaker 1: They do find.
Speaker 2: Blood on the shoes, blood on the jeans, and Finn
Speaker 2: great advice. He goes, guy would be off the hook
Speaker 2: if he did some laundry, So if you're gonna murder,
Speaker 2: you know, clean the blood up. So they find it's
Speaker 2: Vicki's blood. And then they also find security video from
Speaker 2: two blocks away from Vicky's home, and it's the woman
Speaker 2: in the fashion hat from the cult and her and
Speaker 2: this boyfriend are canoodling and they leave together and in the.
Speaker 3: Video you see that she has the mark.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is amazing security footage, and so she has
Speaker 1: this base. It is color, it is hi res, it
Speaker 1: is able to be zoomed in on. It is really
Speaker 1: good security footage where you can see that she has
Speaker 1: like a brand underneath her on her ribcage.
Speaker 2: So then they go terrogate the hot chick and she
Speaker 2: starts crying and she goes, I had no idea was him.
Speaker 2: They're like, you don't know Vicki's ex. I thought you're
Speaker 2: a family or all friends, and she goes, no, I hurt.
Speaker 2: She talks about him all the time. I didn't realize
Speaker 2: it was him. And then she talks about her number
Speaker 2: one problem and why she joined this cult and it's
Speaker 2: not a problem at all. She's like, when I would
Speaker 2: be at bars and men would hit on me, I
Speaker 2: would let them control everything, and I said, no, I'm
Speaker 2: going to control it.
Speaker 3: And it's like, what is happening. I just like don't
Speaker 3: understand any of this.
Speaker 2: But basically, her goal of the evening was to find
Speaker 2: a man and be like, I'm gonna fuck you, and
Speaker 2: so she did that with this guy.
Speaker 3: She says she didn't know.
Speaker 2: So the brand starts talking and immediately Lydia and the
Speaker 2: man walk out like they just had a timer. Like
Speaker 2: as soon as the brand Sila and Arlow arlow okay,
Speaker 2: So Lela and Arlow come out right as the brand
Speaker 2: is chatting chatted about and they said that the brand
Speaker 2: was actually Vicky's idea and they fucking loved it and
Speaker 2: that's why.
Speaker 3: They Delilah shows that she has it too.
Speaker 2: Yes, So when the detectives walk away, there is like
Speaker 2: a half a second of like Arlow touching this fashion
Speaker 2: hat girl's face and the fashion hat girl smiling at him.
Speaker 2: So that to me was a it was like a
Speaker 2: quick second, but I noticed that. So then Lydia starts
Speaker 2: talking about how Arlow's a feminist and he reads books,
Speaker 2: and it's like.
Speaker 1: All right, Arlow also is taking uh, he's taking one
Speaker 1: of them, I think maybe CARIESI through the house and
Speaker 1: there's just like a sketchy fucking room of sheetless mattresses,
Speaker 1: like a full, huge room that just has.
Speaker 3: Mattresses on the ground.
Speaker 1: I miss that. And he's like, you never know when
Speaker 1: someone's gonna stay over. I'm like, on a nasty mattress
Speaker 1: on the ground at your mansion? What the fuck is
Speaker 1: this place?
Speaker 3: Get a guest room.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then Lydia to Ben's was like, no, Benson goes,
Speaker 2: I run my unit and she goes and who runs
Speaker 2: you and it's like, fuck you. The amount of people
Speaker 2: Olivia Benson has helped and changed their lives around and
Speaker 2: has made huge impact on putting away court like fuck
Speaker 2: you trying to tell her that she needs to be
Speaker 2: more confident in her life or she's missing something, like
Speaker 2: you wish you could have accomplished what Benson has.
Speaker 1: Can. I also point out that they do some research
Speaker 1: on Arlow and they're like, oh, he graduated with xyz
Speaker 1: degree from Cambridge, badminton player, Like they talk about him
Speaker 1: playing badminton like that and like a hot thing or something.
Speaker 2: And being a monk somewhere, and it's like you're either
Speaker 2: a rich kid or you're lying. Either way, not impressive.
Speaker 2: So we learn Lydia worked at like a financie lie whatever.
Speaker 2: They know, they fucking know she worked in finance. Arlow
Speaker 2: helps her quit and then she had her own firm.
Speaker 2: She only hires women. I mean, I just don't care
Speaker 2: about these people. Arlow is again harassing.
Speaker 1: Rollins, being like you have sexualblems? Now he says that
Speaker 1: most the women that come to him have sexual problems
Speaker 1: and that he helps them with their sexual problems.
Speaker 3: So he what a kind guy?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a kind guy, and he also keeps shaming
Speaker 2: Rollins for not having a dad for the like with
Speaker 2: this baby, and it's like, is the season one or
Speaker 2: season twenty? It's the two thousands baby, Like people are
Speaker 2: having babes without dads, Like, how is this a point
Speaker 2: of shame? I'm more impressed with women having babies without men.
Speaker 3: Sorry Cara, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did it the easy way with a partner.
Speaker 1: Oh but she keeps saying that the dad is an architect.
Speaker 1: But it's a lie, isn't it like the secret FBI
Speaker 1: redheaded guy from Grounded for Life? Wait, what, who's Rollin's
Speaker 1: baby daddy? Her first baby daddy?
Speaker 3: Is that Irish guy fid Oh?
Speaker 1: He has two kids?
Speaker 3: This is her second kid. I forgot.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that her second kid. She had a
Speaker 1: first baby in twenty fifteen. She had a second baby
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. And the reason I know this is
Speaker 1: because I fucking looked it up because I noticed that
Speaker 1: Rollins was getting like was huge this episode. And they're
Speaker 1: acting like she's four months pregnant, Like they're acting like
Speaker 1: she's just at the point where she should tell one
Speaker 1: pp she's like seven months pregnant because she had her
Speaker 1: baby in October.
Speaker 3: This episode aired in November.
Speaker 1: They record, they take pretty close to when they air,
Speaker 1: So I think she's like six months six or seven
Speaker 1: months pregnant in this So was she real life pregnant times? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they wrote them into the thing. And she has boys
Speaker 1: in real life, but she has girls on the show.
Speaker 1: So the dad of this baby is the doctor who's
Speaker 1: also been in a lot of stuff. But he's not
Speaker 1: a redhead. He's like a doctor. I've seen him and stuff.
Speaker 1: I can look it up. The first dad is Declan.
Speaker 5: The yeah father is the doctor from who's also the
Speaker 5: lead in Scandal, one of the lads.
Speaker 1: Oh, he's in Scandal.
Speaker 3: Okay, this is insane.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm a super fan and had no
Speaker 2: idea this was her second pregnancy. I feel like I
Speaker 2: might be lying to everybody thank you for helping me
Speaker 2: figure this Rollins baby situation.
Speaker 1: No, I was obsessed myself. Now I feel bad for Rollins.
Speaker 1: I'm like, now, you're a single mother of two kids
Speaker 1: and a detective.
Speaker 3: Different.
Speaker 2: Maybe they don't hate you, you know, and your sister
Speaker 2: and mom fucking suck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, her sister, don't even get me.
Speaker 3: Her boss is a rapist.
Speaker 1: She's addicted to Gambling's just too much.
Speaker 2: It's just too much. So suddenly we cut some Marie
Speaker 2: Basso's house. This is probably like a five million dollar
Speaker 2: place in New York. I'd say five to seven million.
Speaker 2: And this is the co founder of this cult, an
Speaker 2: ex wife of Arlow. And you know, she says he's smart,
Speaker 2: empathetic and charming, but she's not surprised by any of this,
Speaker 2: and she has nothing to do with this club anymore.
Speaker 2: And she left the club after Arlow started sleeping with Lila,
Speaker 2: and she said that what really pissed her off was
Speaker 2: Arlow said that he was fucking her for Marie zone
Speaker 2: good to help her with her jealousy issues. So this
Speaker 2: guy has got a lot of nerve, yes, yeah, but
Speaker 2: not talent or uniqueness. Okay, okay, So now we cut
Speaker 2: to an outdoor yoga class on the river, something I
Speaker 2: did in New York all the time.
Speaker 3: So I'm late to river yoga.
Speaker 1: Excuse me. That's what I did the most.
Speaker 2: I would take a train from Crown Heights every morning
Speaker 2: to the Hudson River and I would take out Dori yoga.
Speaker 2: So she's like, listen, I'm done talking to the cops
Speaker 2: and then this is perfect s for you. The women
Speaker 2: yoga are mad because there's some man in the bushes
Speaker 2: taking photos.
Speaker 3: The cops go talk to him.
Speaker 2: Lucky for them, it's this guy whose wife is the
Speaker 2: fashion hat girl, the like peasant top girl.
Speaker 3: So her name is Gina. Finally, eight pages in.
Speaker 1: We find out her found equals Gina.
Speaker 2: So Gina's husband is like, I'm trying to get to
Speaker 2: the bottom of this fucking cult. They took my money,
Speaker 2: they took the deed to my house. She's fucking this
Speaker 2: guy fucking take my camera. Take all the evidence you need.
Speaker 2: And so they just found a gold mine, you know,
Speaker 2: they found a bunch of like a camera with all
Speaker 2: of this evidence.
Speaker 1: There's pictures of like a bunch of the girls in
Speaker 1: this group like stepping on VICKI like kicking her in
Speaker 1: the head or.
Speaker 2: Something, Yes, stepping on our neck, and it's called starting over.
Speaker 1: This is what you do for the cult. And she's
Speaker 1: a surf.
Speaker 3: And Gina says, Vicky was my surf.
Speaker 1: I was her lord. That's what she says.
Speaker 3: So then Rollins goes crazy. Pregnant.
Speaker 2: Rollins rushes into the squad room squad interrogation, gets the
Speaker 2: chair out of Gina, pushes Gina to the ground and
Speaker 2: starts stepping on Gina, which I think, you know, it's
Speaker 2: a little stablerish. This is not gonna work.
Speaker 3: Pregnancy hormones are no joke, man, and she's just like okay.
Speaker 2: So she finally confesses she put the blood on the
Speaker 2: ex boyfriend. She was told to by her lord that
Speaker 2: she was supposed to try to fuck this guy and
Speaker 2: then put blood all over his.
Speaker 1: Clothes because Vicky was going to was thinking about leaving
Speaker 1: the cult.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was gonna betray r Low, so they had
Speaker 2: to fucking kill her. So this is my favorite art
Speaker 2: of SVU where suddenly the detective or the lawyer has
Speaker 2: a personal connection. You know, Cabot has a not cabotfriend, schizophrenic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we find out that the brand means at his mercy
Speaker 2: and you have to give up everything. So they don't
Speaker 2: know how to connect everyone. And then they figure out
Speaker 2: that Lila wears a fitness tracker, and on Lilah's fitness
Speaker 2: tracker based on her heart. This seems like such circumstantial evidence,
Speaker 2: but basically her heart tracker, her heart raised during the moments, and.
Speaker 1: So they tracked the I can't believe you can even
Speaker 1: find that that you can subpoena that information of a
Speaker 1: fitbit tracker.
Speaker 2: They're like, it's in the cloud because when the FBI
Speaker 2: contacted me about like Twitter stuff because someone threatened to
Speaker 2: bomb my house, they couldn't find the tweets because they
Speaker 2: were deleted because of all the laws. Like, I can't
Speaker 2: imagine the government and Apple being like, sure, we'll give
Speaker 2: you someone's fitness track or heart information, and that that
Speaker 2: would be enough evidence in court to put someone away.
Speaker 2: I just don't believe it. So whatever heart ray equals murder.
Speaker 2: So then Benson and Liilah are in jail. Lilah's in
Speaker 2: an orange ben suit and Benson is spilling the tea
Speaker 2: and is like, most women are in here because of
Speaker 2: men's lives. And while I was home, I was watching
Speaker 2: Russian television with my family. Every single show is about
Speaker 2: a woman going to jail for a man. Every single show.
Speaker 2: This happens all the fucking time. Lets do not go
Speaker 2: to jail for a man? Tell on him, and Benson
Speaker 2: lays it down. She goes, has he visited you? Did
Speaker 2: he get you a lawyer? Has he posted bail? Has
Speaker 2: he reached out to you? In any way. She goes,
Speaker 2: look to the future of your fucking life, because she's like, well,
Speaker 2: that means my last ten years of my life mean nothing.
Speaker 2: And she goes, look to your fucking future. If you
Speaker 2: go to jail, you will die in this jail. If
Speaker 2: you cooperate, you can be out when you're fifty, and
Speaker 2: she goes, that's a lot of life left, and she
Speaker 2: just fucking Benson's incredible. I love her so much. But
Speaker 2: she won't she's not doing it, or she does make
Speaker 2: a deal, No deal, is it a deal? What's they
Speaker 2: don't tell us If she makes a deal, she just confesses,
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a deal.
Speaker 1: I don't think she's gonna like it's not like immunity,
Speaker 1: but she's gonna get like a sense introduction.
Speaker 3: I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then Claudia, who's the bitch that owns the mansion
Speaker 2: and stuff, and she is the lawyer, and Benson gives
Speaker 2: another hard course speech. I feel like this was just
Speaker 2: an episode to get like Benson and Emmy honestly a
Speaker 2: lot of fucking lessons and monologues. And she gives a
Speaker 2: hardcore speech about like you trick women, you build them up,
Speaker 2: they are vulnerable with you, and then you use their
Speaker 2: vulnerability to destroy them, and Arle claps he's condescending as fuck.
Speaker 2: But then Claudia and rawlins they have a scuffle outside.
Speaker 1: Well, because you could tell when Benson's making your speech
Speaker 1: that Claudia is affected like that. She's kind of like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, something like some of what you're saying is
Speaker 1: really ringing true, Like Benson's able to like deprogram a
Speaker 1: cult victim in like two seconds.
Speaker 2: Yes, she is incredible, the best detective of the land.
Speaker 2: And and then Benson complains about her kid and goes,
Speaker 2: I didn't know there were stubborn sixes phase, And it's
Speaker 2: like kids are always suck.
Speaker 1: Pick an age, they suck. No I okay, I have
Speaker 1: a kid. I love my kid. Noah is the worst.
Speaker 1: I hate Noah.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
Speaker 1: If you listen to this podcast, you gotta be on
Speaker 1: the Noah hate train. Noah the taught like Noah the
Speaker 1: five year old sucks. I loved him when he was
Speaker 1: a baby. Okay. Also, there's an RBG mug on Benson's desk.
Speaker 1: Did you see it?
Speaker 2: I did not pick ups to RBG. You know that's
Speaker 2: so wild you mention that. But Noah has no choice.
Speaker 2: He was like adopted from a drug den. His grandma
Speaker 2: tried to steal him. He almost got hit by a car.
Speaker 2: There was false accusations.
Speaker 1: Of his bomb beating, but he's so annoying. He's just like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing it. And it's like, do you know
Speaker 1: what Benson has given up for you? Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I want to say to my baby too. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I used to be thin.
Speaker 2: So Claudia basically posted bay. Oh, so he posts bail.
Speaker 2: Can you just finish this episode? Yeah, I'm like done, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's fine to the end.
Speaker 1: Look, he basically posts bail, but then he tries to flee.
Speaker 1: Claudia calls in a tip to the cops and says
Speaker 1: he's on his way to Westchester County Airport. They bust
Speaker 1: him right as he's about to board this jet because
Speaker 1: his ex wife Maria or whatever, the gorgeous woman this
Speaker 1: is xyfe forgot to fuel up the private jet. So
Speaker 1: they get him, so, you know, and then they stop
Speaker 1: him and he's let off in handcuffs.
Speaker 3: So he's obviously going to get.
Speaker 1: Busted for the actual like coercion of a crime or
Speaker 1: whatever he's guilty of. Plus trying to flee like he's
Speaker 1: going to get it, so you feel like it's happy.
Speaker 1: And then Rollins tells Benson, Hey, the dad of this
Speaker 1: baby's a cardiologist, and that's how the episode ends.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad he got caught.
Speaker 2: I'm glad it was a rich person problem that stopped
Speaker 2: him from fleeing, you know who forgets to fuel a
Speaker 2: pa jet And the ex wife was friendly still with Arlow.
Speaker 3: So it's hard to escape a cult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going to find out a hell of
Speaker 1: a lot more about that when we come back from
Speaker 1: our break because I've got all the details on the
Speaker 1: true crime that.
Speaker 3: This is based on.
Speaker 1: Be right back, Hi, guys, thanks for hanging in through
Speaker 1: the commercial. One quick thing we wanted to just address
Speaker 1: from the last part of the pod was we are
Speaker 1: not going to use the term revenge porter anymore, and
Speaker 1: there is a movement to start calling that non consensual photography.
Speaker 3: So we're going to hop on behind that.
Speaker 1: And if you want to read Katie Hill's opinion article,
Speaker 1: that will be in our show notes. Okay, Lisa, are
Speaker 1: you ready to fucking delve into the world of female
Speaker 1: wellness cults?
Speaker 2: I'm so ready because this has been in the zeitgeist
Speaker 2: for like months now, and I've purposely not listened to
Speaker 2: any of it so I could be taught by you.
Speaker 3: So I'm really excited.
Speaker 1: This episode aired in October of twenty eighteen, and a
Speaker 1: year earlier is kind.
Speaker 3: Of when the whole thing blew up.
Speaker 1: They got on it pretty quickly because it is a
Speaker 1: complicated case, so they waited for some stuff to unfold
Speaker 1: and criminal charges to happen, and then they h So
Speaker 1: let me just get get into it, Okay. So this
Speaker 1: episode is based on a cult for sure that you've
Speaker 1: probably heard of called Nexium. It's spelled like with Roman
Speaker 1: numerals NXIVM, but it's pronounced nexium, which on the surface
Speaker 1: is just an MLM that offers like self help and
Speaker 1: personal development courses which they called ESP Executive Success Programs.
Speaker 1: Let me just tell you that I hate MLMs. It
Speaker 1: stands for multi level marketing. It's a lot of the
Speaker 1: stuff you see where like a girl you haven't talked
Speaker 1: to that you barely talk to in college hits you
Speaker 1: up and is like.
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm just wondering if you wanted to reconnect.
Speaker 1: And it's like because they want to sell you like
Speaker 1: some kind of wrap to make yourself thinner, some kind
Speaker 1: of tupperware and that one knives, cut vacuums with sell
Speaker 1: and dot and that kind of stuff. I'm almost like
Speaker 1: that's okay with me a little bit because I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: you see jewelry, you can look at how good it is.
Speaker 1: You can buy it if you want to buy it whatever.
Speaker 1: I don't like miracle cures, skincare stuff that's like not
Speaker 1: like there's kind of no proof that it works on
Speaker 1: a person, you know, it's like a lot of like
Speaker 1: Amway all that stuff. I just think it's it's if
Speaker 1: you listen to something like The Dream, you can get
Speaker 1: an idea of really how evil and insidious this these That.
Speaker 2: Was just on the tip of my I was just
Speaker 2: about to say they're so evil. Yeah, and it puts
Speaker 2: people that are in desperate need in a more evil
Speaker 2: position because then they're ruining other.
Speaker 1: People's lives because they have to.
Speaker 3: It's just so fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Nextim was started by a guy named Keith Rinier
Speaker 1: and a woman named Nancy Salzman in nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 1: Nancy was a psychiatric nurse and a trained practitioner of hypnotism.
Speaker 1: And neuro linguistic programming. So neural linguistic programming is a
Speaker 1: complete pseudoscience. You can look it up. There's like a full,
Speaker 1: huge long Wikipedia about it. But it's basically it's a
Speaker 1: lot of like just teaching people how to like say
Speaker 1: things to themselves to make the m self successful. It
Speaker 1: is a lot of like self brainwashing and brainwashing. So
Speaker 1: it's not a real degree.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure she was a nurse. Says she
Speaker 3: was a psychiatric nurse.
Speaker 1: The neural linguistic If you look up neural linguistics, it
Speaker 1: says that it's a pseudoscience. Keith was an established con man.
Speaker 1: Prior to founding NECM, he had created other MLMs. One
Speaker 1: was a pyramid scheme which collapsed after signing up two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand people and bringing in more than
Speaker 1: thirty three million dollars a year. And he learned all
Speaker 1: of this from taking courses from you got it Amway.
Speaker 1: That's how he learned how to do all this. And
Speaker 1: that's the Betsy de Vos family, right, Yes, they started
Speaker 1: an Amway. So like MLMs are fucking evil. So in
Speaker 1: ninety six he denied wrongdoing but agreed to pay forty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars fine, and was permanently banned from promoting, offering,
Speaker 1: or granting participation in a chain distribution scheme. So he
Speaker 1: wasn't He's not supposed to be part of anything like this, Okay.
Speaker 1: So they started this program in nineteen ninety eight, and
Speaker 1: since then, sixteen thousand people have enrolled in their courses.
Speaker 1: They do these trainings called large group Awareness Training, which
Speaker 1: is it's like nextim uses it Landmark.
Speaker 3: If you've ever heard.
Speaker 1: I was actually just about to interrupt you and say
Speaker 1: I lost a friend of Landmark. Yeah, and I was
Speaker 1: her friend that she brought, you know. That's like all
Speaker 1: she did group a weekend, twelve hour days and then
Speaker 1: on the third day you bring a sucker.
Speaker 3: And I was that sucker.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I'm not doing it, and she
Speaker 2: all her money went into it. I mean, she fucking
Speaker 2: loved Landmark and it twisted her brain and I couldn't
Speaker 2: even be around her anymore. She constantly was writing like
Speaker 2: it was wild and it was wild to be there,
Speaker 2: and everyone's like, just it's only five hundred dollars, It's
Speaker 2: only five hundred dollars, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Like I'm fine.
Speaker 1: So This was a huge thing in the early two thousands.
Speaker 1: This was like a very lucrative fad. Was like executive training,
Speaker 1: large group awareness training, stuff like that, like your work
Speaker 1: would do it, but then people would go on their own.
Speaker 1: It was like ways to realize your potential.
Speaker 2: Also have to say, I knew, I know a couple
Speaker 2: of people that did just the first weekend of Landmark,
Speaker 2: got a lot out of it and never went back.
Speaker 1: Sure, and I think the same is true of Nexium.
Speaker 1: Some people went to Nexium just took a couple of
Speaker 1: courses and were like, that was great, that's really helping me,
Speaker 1: like speak up more at work, It's helping me find
Speaker 1: joy in the every day blah blah blah. But then
Speaker 1: the people that got severely involved is where things went south.
Speaker 3: So you took Nexxium courses, which you paid for.
Speaker 1: There's rumors that they were seventy five hundred to eight
Speaker 1: thousand dollars per course, so not cheap. Yeah, you were
Speaker 1: the people rich joining this. A lot of the people
Speaker 1: were rich well because like a lot of them came
Speaker 1: from executive training programs and stuff. And then, like I said,
Speaker 1: you could either just take a couple of courses or
Speaker 1: you could start moving up the ranks. Now you're going
Speaker 1: to start to see how a lot of this resembles scientology.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy. Before you say something, I think it's like,
Speaker 2: this is.
Speaker 1: Why we're insane here, or I also thought about the
Speaker 1: raziniche the Wow Country Wild Country. Yeah, so that's funny.
Speaker 1: One of the articles I read was like, pause, wild
Speaker 1: wild Country. Here's something even crazy because when that was
Speaker 1: being aired is when the nexium stuff was all breaking.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know about this yet. We'll see
Speaker 2: what crazier. But ground up beavers in the water supply
Speaker 2: can nexium beat that.
Speaker 1: There's some crazy shit, but I don't know about that.
Speaker 1: So in the same way as scientology has you move
Speaker 1: up the bridge, nexium has you move up the stripe path.
Speaker 1: Everybody gets these sort of sashes that like you every
Speaker 1: time you move up a level you get this different color,
Speaker 1: and then stripes are like different things you get on
Speaker 1: your sash to like move higher and higher. Up are
Speaker 1: the girl scouts in MLM. Now I'm getting worried. Oh
Speaker 1: I don't think so they sell cookies for badges, that's true,
Speaker 1: but they can get out whatever they want. So Keith
Speaker 1: was called Vanguard. In this group, Keith, everyone has to
Speaker 1: call Keith Vanguard. Everyone has to call Nancy Prefect.
Speaker 2: Okay, I know Vanguard is a word because of the
Speaker 2: MTV Vanguard Awards Vanguard and they gave it to Michael
Speaker 2: Jackson and Britney Spears.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, So their photos are up during classes
Speaker 1: like they're very revered. They're very worshiped, like the Vanguard
Speaker 1: and the Prefects. So this is Keith and Nancy.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So anyway, intensive classes were twelve hours a day for
Speaker 1: sixteen days, and Keith claimed like he claimed to be
Speaker 1: a scientist, so he called this teaching a technology. He's like,
Speaker 1: this is a technology to make you a better person.
Speaker 1: It's about making you a better person, making you someone
Speaker 1: that can help the world become a better place, making
Speaker 1: you more ethical. Like your fears are you not? Are
Speaker 1: holding you back? And like you worrying about yourself is
Speaker 1: so conceited. You're just like you're not listening to how
Speaker 1: you can help the world. You're only thinking about yourself.
Speaker 1: It's like, honestly, you sit and listen to this guy.
Speaker 1: I also watch The Vow on HBO, which is I
Speaker 1: just watched the sixth episode I believe it's seven, eight
Speaker 1: or nine parts.
Speaker 3: You should watch it.
Speaker 1: It's very informative on this whole thing, and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to be able to recap a nine part series
Speaker 1: in twenty minutes, but I'm doing my best. Every time
Speaker 1: Keith is speaking, he's like lying back on a couch
Speaker 1: surrounded by women, looking like a total nasty schlub. He's
Speaker 1: got long hair, like not a super wild Wall Country beard,
Speaker 1: but like just like an unkempt beard, and he's not
Speaker 1: attractive to me, but tell that to the women in
Speaker 1: this cult. And he's kind of talking in circles like
Speaker 1: everything he's saying, I'm like, what are you even saying?
Speaker 1: Like say one thing that is a concrete point. Everything
Speaker 1: is like and that's just the thing, you know, with
Speaker 1: like the cycle and what you're trying to say and
Speaker 1: do and what you're putting into the world. It's like,
Speaker 1: say a sentence like nothing is real. It's all psychobabble,
Speaker 1: and it's all circular.
Speaker 3: Talking, confusing me.
Speaker 2: It's like you're saying it's to be less selfish, and yeah,
Speaker 2: it's for executives trying to make more money and speak
Speaker 2: at work, So like, I don't none of that really
Speaker 2: makes sense.
Speaker 1: Well, they're kind of smart the way they did it
Speaker 1: because they started in ninety eight and they did not
Speaker 1: get busted until twenty seventeen, so they rent for almost
Speaker 1: twenty years, like just building and building slowly and slowly
Speaker 1: in Albany, New York.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I saw a tweet that was like, we
Speaker 2: should have known something was suspicious getting people to move
Speaker 2: to Albany.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all these hot people moving to Albany. Something's up.
Speaker 1: So he would do this thing where he would get
Speaker 1: a lot of patents, like he would patent his technology.
Speaker 1: He would like try to patent parts of what he
Speaker 1: was teaching. And I guess the US Patent Office will
Speaker 1: truly give a patent to anyone. And there's people call
Speaker 1: patent trolls. And guess who was another patent troll? L
Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard, the creator of scientology. Like they thought that
Speaker 1: it would make you more substantial, like person that the
Speaker 1: government is confirming this is a person with idea. True.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Shark Tank, it's one of the most important things.
Speaker 2: They're always like patent pending.
Speaker 3: You know, it's.
Speaker 1: Usually patten on your special sponge or whatever, but not
Speaker 1: like this bullshit technology about how to get over your
Speaker 1: parents being mean to you or whatever.
Speaker 3: It's just none of it's real.
Speaker 1: So they preyed upon people that were obviously wealthy if
Speaker 1: they could afford the classes. But the people were also
Speaker 1: extremely attractive, like everybody in this video, and you can
Speaker 1: see in the footage from the nineties and the early
Speaker 1: two thousands they're not that hot. Starting in like the
Speaker 1: twenty tens, they're hot like they obviously were. Like this
Speaker 1: is the way you convince people to get into groups
Speaker 1: like this is show them all these beautiful people loving
Speaker 1: it right, so that you're getting actresses. But they're not
Speaker 1: like you. I think we tend to think of people
Speaker 1: who get into cults as like weak minded, like I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do with my life and then
Speaker 1: you stumble into a cult. That's not really how these
Speaker 1: people are. Like a lot of these people were really striving.
Speaker 1: They're very like successful people that were striving for more.
Speaker 1: A lot of them were rich when they started it.
Speaker 1: They were like, I just wasn't I was rich, I
Speaker 1: was successful, but I didn't have joy in my life.
Speaker 1: So they're just looking for like that missing thing, and
Speaker 1: that's like who they're preying upon. One of the former
Speaker 1: members says they go for people who are successful, easy
Speaker 1: to get along with, capable, They go after beautiful people.
Speaker 1: So that's a very noticeable thing. It's not like these
Speaker 1: are all like gross hippies like the Manson family or like,
Speaker 1: you know, yes.
Speaker 2: But at least with the gross hippie cults, there's drugs,
Speaker 2: they're set, and there's party. There's like this is not
Speaker 2: that mental expansion and LSD.
Speaker 3: There's like something fun about this. I don't. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, so one of his big things is called the
Speaker 1: practice of EM and like people would like love for
Speaker 1: Keith to give them an EM, which stands for exploration
Speaker 1: of meaning. So it'd be like, okay, Lisa, let's talk
Speaker 1: about why you react this way when you hear a
Speaker 1: car horn beep or something like that, and they would
Speaker 1: like probe deep into your memory and try to get
Speaker 1: you to like change the way you react to something,
Speaker 1: which I'm sure like any therapists can do in a
Speaker 1: regular ethical way, but it sounds more like auditing, like
Speaker 1: what they do in scientology. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: times they try to get you to admit stuff, Like
Speaker 1: you know, there's rumors that certain celebrity men have gone
Speaker 1: into Scientology and told them that they're gay and that
Speaker 1: that's what the church has over them. They have them
Speaker 1: on tape admitting that they're gay or that they had
Speaker 1: gay experiences or something. Anyway, I wonder who those actors are.
Speaker 1: I'm nice because I don't want to humber myself up
Speaker 1: to any lawsuits. But you can watch a South Park
Speaker 1: and figure it out. So they were also taught that
Speaker 1: people who were against them being in the group were
Speaker 1: called suppressives, which comes right out of scientology. And if
Speaker 1: you were in the group and then turned against Keith,
Speaker 1: it was called the fall. You were like going through
Speaker 1: the fall, and then you were called a Luciferian after that.
Speaker 1: So it's just wild. Like they also taught some members
Speaker 1: that they were incarnated Nazis, that they were responsible for
Speaker 1: nine to eleven, like all this stuff, and that their
Speaker 1: goal was to work and suffer in life so that
Speaker 1: they could make up for all these past crimes they
Speaker 1: committed in past lives.
Speaker 3: It's wild.
Speaker 1: So this group grew like kind of quietly until two
Speaker 1: thousand and three, and then they started luring in more
Speaker 1: high profile people, like they got a former surgeon general,
Speaker 1: an Enron executive, the daughter of the former president of Mexico.
Speaker 3: They claim Richard Branson, but he denies it. The CEO
Speaker 3: of like.
Speaker 1: Virgin I don't think he would go in there. He
Speaker 1: already has his own islands. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: What gets you can't find more joy in your life
Speaker 3: than your own island.
Speaker 2: Like I don't understand, you know, he's like, what's it called.
Speaker 2: It's like skydiving from hot air balloons and Fiji Like
Speaker 2: I don't understand.
Speaker 1: I don't buy that. But I love a president's daughter, going, yeah,
Speaker 1: Mexican president's daughter. Like all these actresses like Grace Park,
Speaker 1: Nikki Klein, the heir of Seagrams. This man, Edgar Bronfman
Speaker 1: Senior went to one and his daughter's claireence Aero Bramfman
Speaker 1: are very important characters. They're the heiresses to the Seagram fortune.
Speaker 1: Or is this an active group? Like are people still
Speaker 1: in it? Well, I'll tell you, okay to it, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So in two thousand and three, Forbes published an article
Speaker 1: that they thought was going to be this really positive article,
Speaker 1: and it was like a complete like hammering of them.
Speaker 1: Like in the article, Edward Bronfman Senior, the heir of
Speaker 1: this huge fortune, was like, I think it's a cult.
Speaker 1: Like he said it definitively, I think it's a cult.
Speaker 1: And his daughter he fell out with his daughters from
Speaker 1: that because his daughters, like were deeply, deeply involved in it.
Speaker 1: The Forbes article, which we will link to in the
Speaker 1: show notes, says it was aimed at breaking down his
Speaker 1: subjects psychologically, separating them from their families and inducting them
Speaker 1: into a bizarre world of messianic pretensions, idiosyncratic language, and
Speaker 1: ritualistic practices. Hello, that is scientology, like tou a te
Speaker 1: So that freaks Yeah for me.
Speaker 2: It's like if they're telling you to not hang out
Speaker 2: with their family or kids or friends or husband, that's
Speaker 2: a cult.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: In two thousand and three, Kristin Snyder, a thirty five
Speaker 1: year old environmental consult disappeared after an Nexium session in Alaska.
Speaker 1: Her body was never found, but her truck was parked
Speaker 1: on the shore of a bay with a note in
Speaker 1: it that said I was brainwashed and my emotional center
Speaker 1: of the brain was killed slash turned off. Please contact
Speaker 1: my parents if you find me or this note. I
Speaker 1: am sorry. I didn't know I was already dead. Sketchy
Speaker 1: was it in her handwriting. Yeah, I think so. I
Speaker 1: don't know, they didn't get into that, but you are
Speaker 1: a detective. Another former medical another for Alaska is.
Speaker 2: Just tough because the terrain there, like there's just so
Speaker 2: many places to hide a body.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Alaska also wasn't like a huge hub of
Speaker 1: this group, Like so they had big hubs in like Albany,
Speaker 1: Seattle at one point, Vancouver, and in Mexico and in Canada,
Speaker 1: I said Vancouver geography. Okay. One former member set a
Speaker 1: medical doctor experiments at her and just would show her
Speaker 1: horrible murders and rapes while recording her.
Speaker 3: Eeg.
Speaker 1: She was like, not told you was going to be
Speaker 1: seeing any of this and showed her like brutal, brutal stuff.
Speaker 1: So this Forbes article kind of hit them a little bit. Well,
Speaker 1: it didn't actually hit them, as was two thousands Free.
Speaker 1: They didn't get caught from three and twenty ten. There
Speaker 1: are big exposees that come out in really reputable magazines,
Speaker 1: like I think the twenty ten one was Vanity Fair,
Speaker 1: and like they just keep going like nobody is paying attention.
Speaker 1: They have such deep pockets because of these brumptman sisters.
Speaker 1: They are they are said to have bounkrolled one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million dollars for this venture, like and that
Speaker 1: includes money given to Keith just playing the stock market
Speaker 1: and he sucks at it, so he just lost sixty
Speaker 1: six million dollars doing that, which they covered thirty million
Speaker 1: dollars to buy real estate in La and Albany, eleven
Speaker 1: million dollar dollars for a twenty two seat private jet,
Speaker 1: and then millions to support lawsuits of anyone who who
Speaker 1: came against Nexium. So like these women were like they.
Speaker 2: See some family girls spent all of their money helping
Speaker 2: this raggedy aid down.
Speaker 1: So much money, but so one hundred and fifty might
Speaker 1: not have been all of it, but they spent a
Speaker 1: ton of it helping this grifter. Essentially, they got the
Speaker 1: Dalai Lama involved, Like the Dalai Lama did visits to Albany,
Speaker 1: and in the vow they show that one time he
Speaker 1: won't come to Albany because he hears about how sketchy
Speaker 1: Keith is. So Keith goes to the Dalai Lama like
Speaker 1: flies private to the Dalai Lama with the Brompfin sisters
Speaker 1: to be like, I'm good like all these people are
Speaker 1: lying about.
Speaker 3: This is the thing about the Dalai Lama.
Speaker 1: I always you know, obviously you love a monk like
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of La and you have a huge fan.
Speaker 2: And then a couple of years ago he said that
Speaker 2: if a woman were to take over for him, she
Speaker 2: needs to be hot. Ugly women cannot be the Dalai Lama.
Speaker 2: And it was just like even the Dalai Lama, this
Speaker 2: so called most enlightened human ever, kindness, spirit like joy
Speaker 2: to everyone is still just like no ugliest please.
Speaker 3: So to me, it just proves that it is all men.
Speaker 1: There is no one said it is all men, and
Speaker 1: there's no one.
Speaker 2: That's actually enlightened because yeah, to NA see past that
Speaker 2: that's wild. So after that, I've kind of I unfollowed
Speaker 2: him on Instagram now.
Speaker 1: I but I just I'm like, everyone's a scam.
Speaker 2: How is the How can we say Nexium is a
Speaker 2: fraud but not the Dalai Lama.
Speaker 3: Who knows? Hey, that's true?
Speaker 1: Okay, So let me So Randy's into all these celebs
Speaker 1: and people showing up on private jets.
Speaker 3: I just think there's more to the Dalai Lama.
Speaker 1: You're right, I think we should start a Dalai Lama
Speaker 1: Exposity podcast offshoot.
Speaker 2: So the fact that even met with him, because but
Speaker 2: there's photos, is their photos of them together, Yeah so
Speaker 2: he will yeah fuck it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So okay, so let me explain what exactly happened that
Speaker 1: got them in trouble. So Nexium is the is the
Speaker 1: main umbrella group. Under Nexium, there are like offshoot groups
Speaker 1: that are like more specific. So there's one called the
Speaker 1: Society of Protectors that's aimed at men. There's another one
Speaker 1: that's called Genes, which is for women. In a credo,
Speaker 1: that's what they basically outwardly were trying to make it
Speaker 1: look like, was like Geness, we help women, like we
Speaker 1: empowered each other, we support each other, and a man
Speaker 1: wouldn't be in charge. So this is all the listeners.
Speaker 1: So then exactly, so then out of jenness came this
Speaker 1: secret society called DAWs DOS, which stood for Dominus obsequious sororium,
Speaker 1: which is a Latin phrase that translates to master over
Speaker 1: slave women. And DOS was also called the Vow. So
Speaker 1: that's where the name of the HBO show comes from.
Speaker 2: So this was like the highest level of this cult
Speaker 2: or just like the most it's just.
Speaker 3: Secret and it was just women.
Speaker 1: So it was like all these women thinking that this
Speaker 1: would be this super cool. Uh, but women didn't start it, Keith.
Speaker 1: It was Keith's idea. You know, Like obviously Keith came
Speaker 1: up with this idea. It's about excluding others, right, because
Speaker 1: not every woman is in it. And then later when
Speaker 1: you find out that they're getting branded, not every woman
Speaker 1: who's in it is getting branded. So I don't know
Speaker 1: how they're deciding who gets branded and who's in it
Speaker 1: for life and whatever. So it is exclusionary. So Keith
Speaker 1: meets up with Ali Mack. Alison Mack is this actress
Speaker 1: from Smallville. Okay, that's what she's well known.
Speaker 3: If this is her biggest credit, let's her biggest.
Speaker 1: Credit is Naxiom. But look, I looked up her Instagram
Speaker 1: is still lives. She hasn't used it in two years
Speaker 1: since she got arrested, but she had one hundred and
Speaker 1: four thousand followers. People are interested in Ali Mack. So
Speaker 1: she is one of the founders of DOS with Keith.
Speaker 1: He is the grand master. She is his slave, Okay,
Speaker 1: and then what she does is she picked some slaves
Speaker 1: to be their master. I think she has I think
Speaker 1: everybody has six slaves, and then those slaves would work
Speaker 1: as slaves for a while, and then they eventually they
Speaker 1: would say a slave to her, but they would be
Speaker 1: able to take on their own slaves.
Speaker 3: And what do they make Why do you need slaves? Okay?
Speaker 1: Because it's about breaking people down mentally so that they
Speaker 1: will be like pliable and loyal to you.
Speaker 3: That's like what it's completely about.
Speaker 2: So is this Ali Mack person? Is she a victim
Speaker 2: of this guy? Or is she an evil?
Speaker 1: It's a great question. That's a great fucking question because
Speaker 1: people say, why should she be treated any differently than
Speaker 1: the other victims? But I think it was because she
Speaker 1: helped create this. But I think he's still influenced her.
Speaker 1: So that is a great question. That is the question,
Speaker 1: that is the moral question of this whole thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: can we punish her when she was just as under
Speaker 1: his spell as everyone else? You know?
Speaker 3: Has she done any interviews or any neuvelance?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 3: No, no, because she's still waiting to be sentenced.
Speaker 1: So let me just say, Rick Ross, is this called
Speaker 1: expert great name, well, a completely different expert, white man
Speaker 1: who is not Rick Ross. He calls Alison Mack the
Speaker 1: tom cruise of Nexium. Okay, so she's kind of the
Speaker 1: face of it. She's very pretty, she's very personable. She
Speaker 1: brought in tons and tons of people into this. She
Speaker 1: constantly is trying to recruit famous people. I saw what
Speaker 1: read this article where she talks about that. She's on
Speaker 1: Twitter trying to get Emma Watson to get in touch
Speaker 1: with her, trying to get Kelly Clarkson, Beverly Mitchell, all
Speaker 1: these high profile journalists being like, hey, I'm part of this.
Speaker 2: I think Beverly Mitchell feels lucky to be included in
Speaker 2: this group of powerful actresses.
Speaker 1: She wrote to Kelly Clarkson, I heard you're a Smallville fan.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of yours. Like DM me let's
Speaker 1: connect like such a classic MLM message totally. So recruitment
Speaker 1: is huge, Like it's the same, it's very similar to
Speaker 1: scientology and that it's a lifetime vow of obedience. You
Speaker 1: sign a contract. They take collateral from you, which is
Speaker 1: can be physical like the deed to your house and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, but also naked photos like videotapes of
Speaker 1: you saying how much you like hate your brother's wife
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, like just stuff that would actually
Speaker 1: really hurt you if it got out, And they recollect
Speaker 1: collateral from you every now and again, So it's not
Speaker 1: enough to just give something at the beginning. You have
Speaker 1: to like keep giving collateral. They want to keep you
Speaker 1: on the hook. I like that you couldn't possibly leave
Speaker 1: because you're so scared of the collateral getting out.
Speaker 2: You know, it's so easy to be like these fucking idiots,
Speaker 2: but it's like what if I get tricked?
Speaker 1: You know, it's like you don't want right. This cult
Speaker 1: is also insanely on the phone, Like so much of
Speaker 1: it is on the phone. They're using WhatsApp. I think
Speaker 1: because it's encrypted. There's a thing with your master. If
Speaker 1: your master says sends you a question mark, you have
Speaker 1: to write ready master or RM within sixty seconds or
Speaker 1: you get in trouble, like you have to always be
Speaker 1: Those are called like readiness checks.
Speaker 3: I think swimming laps in a pool.
Speaker 1: You probably can't, like you literally have to like have it.
Speaker 1: Maybe you could write your master and say, may I
Speaker 1: have permission to swim laps in a pool for twenty minutes?
Speaker 3: I won't be able to respond to your dad.
Speaker 1: Like maybe there's something like that, But there's all this
Speaker 1: stuff going on over text. You have to write good
Speaker 1: morning Master to your morning in the morning there may
Speaker 1: I eat? Now, Master, may I pee? Part of being
Speaker 1: in DOSS was being thin, so they would constantly tell you, like,
Speaker 1: if you lose weight, go out like Teddy Mellencamps grow. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I thought about it because the one girl's on a
Speaker 1: five hundred a day calorie thing, and I was like,
Speaker 1: you cannot do five hundred calories a day. That's like starvation.
Speaker 1: And it's because Keith preferred thin, like rail thin women.
Speaker 1: So like, there's this one woman in it who gives
Speaker 1: her whole story, which I'm not going to go through,
Speaker 1: but she talks about how she eventually starts having sex
Speaker 1: with Keith, and she says that it wasn't until she
Speaker 1: lost a certain amount of weight that things that he
Speaker 1: actually had sex with her. He would flirt with her
Speaker 1: and like there was some intimacy happening between them, but
Speaker 1: not until she hit like his goal weight for her
Speaker 1: that he started having sex with with her. It is
Speaker 1: truly wild.
Speaker 2: Well, because I'm also thinking wondering if these women, some
Speaker 2: of them are like into BDSM or like having a
Speaker 2: slave masters sexual thing and don't know how to like
Speaker 2: do it in their own way, and this brought it, Like,
Speaker 2: I wonder.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's this about that friendship it's
Speaker 1: about it's supposed to be about friendship and making you stronger.
Speaker 1: So they're like, this is about getting through pain, is
Speaker 1: about strength. Like so when one of the women, Sarah Edmondson,
Speaker 1: who has a book actually about her whole experience on this,
Speaker 1: like she is like the main character in the vow,
Speaker 1: She's like the main person. She's the whistleblower in the
Speaker 1: New York Times article that came out in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: and she talks about how like when she was getting branded,
Speaker 1: she didn't know what was going on and her best
Speaker 1: friend was holding her down and it was Nancy Salzman's daughter,
Speaker 1: Lauren's her best friend, the godmother of her son, is
Speaker 1: holding her down and going, you need to show these
Speaker 1: other women what strength looks like. You cannot like freak
Speaker 1: out and be like this is you have to deal
Speaker 1: with your pain and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Actually I watch a Hulu series on cults and I
Speaker 2: did watch an hour on this and I think it's
Speaker 2: this woman. But one of them I was talking about
Speaker 2: the branding process and being held down and it just
Speaker 2: seems really horrific.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it is horrible.
Speaker 1: Like they said that you could just like smell burning flesh.
Speaker 1: It was like awful, and like at the end of
Speaker 1: the day you had to fill out a failure form
Speaker 1: like say everything you did wrong, like you didn't wake
Speaker 1: up at six am, you didn't get back to your
Speaker 1: master in time, you didn't call your mom, you went
Speaker 1: over your calories like they So they showed this thing
Speaker 1: of them saying master, may I have eighty five calories
Speaker 1: and taking a photo of their food and sending it
Speaker 1: to their master and like that back and forth and
Speaker 1: the master can say yes or no. My husband, of course,
Speaker 1: tweeted a picture of a bacon eater and said, master,
Speaker 1: may I have nine hundred and fifty calories? So you
Speaker 1: keep funny that came out on Twitter. So basically, Keith
Speaker 1: just constantly has like tons of women around him. He's
Speaker 1: sleeping with them, he's going on nighttime walks with them.
Speaker 1: He's very flirtatious. Everybody in this organization men, women, Everybody
Speaker 1: kisses on the life when they greet each other.
Speaker 3: I wonder whether they're doing post COVID.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not going to survive coronavirus.
Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, are they jealous of each other when
Speaker 2: they're all fucking him?
Speaker 3: Are they competed?
Speaker 1: They're not talking to each other about that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: And I think they're like, my closeness with Keith is
Speaker 1: like our is like our own thing. And like in
Speaker 1: the past, he's had like three girlfriends that have like
Speaker 1: known about each other, like three like living girlfriends, and
Speaker 1: they all know about each other, but he does move
Speaker 1: on to younger models all the time. He had one
Speaker 1: girlfriend in this organization who was very high up in
Speaker 1: jenness and she died of cancer and afterwards three hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollar was charged to her credit cards. So just
Speaker 1: saying it seems like I've not heard of one cult
Speaker 1: yet that's not about trying a man trying to fuck
Speaker 1: as many people as possible. So when they originally got
Speaker 1: this brand on them, they were told that it was
Speaker 1: like a mountain with the horizon and then like water
Speaker 1: going through it. But when you like turn it sideways,
Speaker 1: it definitely says for Keith Ranier. And then people were like,
Speaker 1: if you turn it again, it looks like it says
Speaker 1: am for Alison Max. So they like figured out a
Speaker 1: way to do both of their initials and branded them
Speaker 1: into these women. And Keith like, do you think the
Speaker 1: two of them are sitting like haa, we've were evil
Speaker 1: and we're gonna bring no. I think they're like versus
Speaker 1: hell being like she's at least being told that by him,
Speaker 1: and he probably in his own delusional way thinks that
Speaker 1: as well. But he is having sexual relationships with these women,
Speaker 1: and it's like really creepy. A text from him was
Speaker 1: found that where he said it was not initially intended
Speaker 1: as my initials, like the brand, and they rearranged it
Speaker 1: slightly for a tribute.
Speaker 3: If it were Abraham Lincoln's or Bill Gates's initials, no
Speaker 3: one would care.
Speaker 1: He thinks that's his delusion of grand or that he
Speaker 1: thinks he's that like high up as these people. So
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, they gather all these like whistleblowers finally
Speaker 1: get together and this huge article comes out in the
Speaker 1: New York Times, which honestly, I was going to say.
Speaker 1: The reason why this got a little bit hidden, I
Speaker 1: think when it did come out was because it was
Speaker 1: happening like it's the end of the first year of
Speaker 1: Trump's presidency, it's wine Seine, it's me too, all this stuff,
Speaker 1: but then it actually kind of rode the coattails of
Speaker 1: me too, Like when Me Too happened, they were like,
Speaker 1: look at how these women have been like brainwashed and
Speaker 1: manipulated by men. Like it ended up getting some price,
Speaker 1: but I didn't think it got as much press as
Speaker 1: it would have gotten in like a boring news cycle.
Speaker 2: I also wonder if it's like Comedians with Louis, if
Speaker 2: people are like, well, when can he go back to work?
Speaker 1: I mean, has he not suffered enough?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: So the article came out Hervy and just like scientology,
Speaker 1: they have like deep pockets. They try to fuck with
Speaker 1: you if you come for them. But it's crazy because
Speaker 1: it's like this woman Sarah is talking about how her
Speaker 1: best friend Lauren like held her down and like and
Speaker 1: like convinced her to do dass in the first place,
Speaker 1: and then she found out later that Lauren had been
Speaker 1: sleeping with Keith for like a decade and that he
Speaker 1: had kept promising her a baby and like that he
Speaker 1: was never going to give her, you.
Speaker 3: Know, so did he always work condoms?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I wonder if there was just abortions on speed dial.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's going on, freaking knows. She took a stand.
Speaker 1: She took the stand as part of her plea deal
Speaker 1: Lauren Salesman and admitted to locking a woman in a
Speaker 1: room for two years as punishment, and that nexim women
Speaker 1: had to send nude pics to Keith where they are smiling,
Speaker 1: so they have to look like they're sending nudepics that
Speaker 1: they're like happy about.
Speaker 3: Wait, they kept a woman in a room for two.
Speaker 1: Years and they threatened her with deportation. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's like fully psychotic. So because of this New York
Speaker 1: Times article, the New York Attorney General got like because
Speaker 1: people had gone to the authorities before, and the authorities
Speaker 1: were just like, sorry, you guys consented to getting branded,
Speaker 1: You consented to like texting your calories. Like they just
Speaker 1: weren't dealing with it as a cult andated the police
Speaker 1: were not educated, like, of course, not the way they
Speaker 1: are with where Benson is like immediately like this isn't right.
Speaker 1: They're not, you know, like she knows immediately, So they
Speaker 1: all started in that article came out October of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: Starting in March of twenty eighteen, Renier was arrested and
Speaker 1: indicted on sex trafficking, sex trafficking, conspiracy, conspiracy to commit
Speaker 1: forced labor. Found guilty of all charges, and in October,
Speaker 1: Keith Ranieri was sentenced to one hundred and twenty years
Speaker 1: in prison for sex trafficking and other crimes, and was
Speaker 1: ordered to pay a one point seventy five million dollar fine.
Speaker 1: The thing I think is wild is like how little
Speaker 1: information there is about Nancy, Like she was a woman
Speaker 1: at the top, top top, who was not in a
Speaker 1: sexual relationship with Keith as far as I know and
Speaker 1: as far as any of the research I've done shows.
Speaker 1: If anyone has more information about that, please let me know.
Speaker 1: And she allowed all this to go on. I mean
Speaker 1: her own daughter was like one of the head people
Speaker 1: in this in dos.
Speaker 3: I wonder if her daughter was fucking Keith.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, that's the one who she was. He
Speaker 1: was fucking for ten years and kept promising a baby.
Speaker 1: So her own daughter was having sex with Keith for
Speaker 1: a decade.
Speaker 3: And it is Nancy on tried? Did she is?
Speaker 1: She She pleaded guilty to racketeering and I cannot find
Speaker 1: her sentence. I mean, what is racketeering. Even mean, it's
Speaker 1: like she broke into email all accounts and tried to
Speaker 1: erase things when they were having lawsuits filed against them.
Speaker 1: I wonder who she's not even getting involved in like that,
Speaker 1: because her fingerprints are on it. I think she's like
Speaker 1: I didn't know about that, Like, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know how you can claim that when it's like your
Speaker 1: partner and your business and your daughter are so highly involved.
Speaker 2: But I mean, she seems like the brain's behind all
Speaker 2: of it. And Keith is also maybe her playtoy, because
Speaker 2: how did she just get to think.
Speaker 1: Of But I'm just just so little information about her,
Speaker 1: Like there's just all these articles are about Keith. Ali Mack,
Speaker 1: the Bromptman sister is like nothing is about Nancy.
Speaker 3: I stare Nancy.
Speaker 5: Nancy and Keith met because Nancy visited his wholesale supplement
Speaker 5: club seeking a remedy for her constant constipation.
Speaker 1: That's how they met, and then it became fun. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he also claimed that his his methods could.
Speaker 3: Cure diabetes, cure scoliosis.
Speaker 2: This is a origin having constipation, and then fast forward
Speaker 2: you are the second in command of a cult. Yeah
Speaker 2: it's wild, but that had to be in. Maybe she's
Speaker 2: a victim too. I mean this is cults are wild.
Speaker 2: This is wild. The fucking's wild. The hot that gets
Speaker 2: all and yeah, are we all susceptible? Because the Hulu
Speaker 2: thing I watched there was like a round table and
Speaker 2: it was all these people that were in cults talking
Speaker 2: to each other and support and you could tell the
Speaker 2: people that were born into cults and had no choice
Speaker 2: were really judgmental.
Speaker 1: Of the people that as a joined you know, you
Speaker 1: like their parents. Everybody should really watch the VOW because
Speaker 1: I think you kind of get behind Sarah Edmundson's like thing,
Speaker 1: like she is like, I don't know how I allowed
Speaker 1: this to happen. I truly thought I was doing good things.
Speaker 1: But she also got out as soon as she saw
Speaker 1: branding and the anorexia and like all that stuff like
Speaker 1: leading up to that, she was like, I thought I
Speaker 1: was helping people, Like people were getting happier, people were
Speaker 1: finding joy, like and then it was because her best
Speaker 1: friend like pulled her in and was like, this is
Speaker 1: a this is a thing you should do. She thought
Speaker 1: it was like a sorority and like, think about it.
Speaker 1: I mean it is like a hyper exaggerated version of
Speaker 1: like the shit that sororities do for like hazing to
Speaker 1: like bring you closer together, you know as well. Anyway,
Speaker 1: this is a very very multi layered case. I know
Speaker 1: I haven't touched on everything. I hope you didn't sit
Speaker 1: here the whole time going when is she going to
Speaker 1: talk about this? Because there's so many different things. I
Speaker 1: had three.
Speaker 2: Pages of notes I did and read, you know, like
Speaker 2: the Wild Wild Country documentary came out twenty plus.
Speaker 1: Years after this all happened two three years ago. With
Speaker 1: the exposure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is like ongoing, so like I'm sure we're
Speaker 2: going to learn more and more.
Speaker 3: So I'll end it on this. You ask me if
Speaker 3: it still exists.
Speaker 1: There are a handful of loyal Nexian followers who go
Speaker 1: and dance outside of his jail in Brooklyn, sometimes out
Speaker 1: of Keith Rie Nier's jail cell. And I think they
Speaker 1: call him k Rose or something because those are his
Speaker 1: initials but not his name.
Speaker 2: I also, I'm so curious at the fashion from nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety eight to its current member. My god, because I'm
Speaker 2: assuming late nineties early two thousands. It was the look
Speaker 2: that's like the jeans with the knee high boots and like,
Speaker 2: like I wanted, I'm just interested in the type of you.
Speaker 1: Just you also just see the real change in physical
Speaker 1: attractiveness many yeah, like in the late nineties and two
Speaker 1: thousands stuff, and there are not the hot girls that
Speaker 1: you're seeing now. Like there's a girl who's the granddaughter
Speaker 1: of the Princess of Yugoslavia named India Oxenbourg who's like
Speaker 1: gorgeous and her mother is part of the New York
Speaker 1: Times expos trying to get her out, and she produced
Speaker 1: a Lifetime original movie about getting her daughter out of Nexium.
Speaker 1: Another thing you can watch. But we have been talking
Speaker 1: about this for too long, so we're going to have
Speaker 1: a guest.
Speaker 2: So our guest from this episode was very dreamy and charming.
Speaker 2: We never wanted it to end, and it is such
Speaker 2: a long interview. We did not let them go, so
Speaker 2: we had to cut a lot of it out. But
Speaker 2: we have to share with you.
Speaker 1: This guy built the deck of his house that he
Speaker 1: was at. He cooks, he rock climbs, He is a
Speaker 1: like femine.
Speaker 2: He is politically where we like him. He also lived
Speaker 2: on a sailboat and like we assumed below deck rich style,
Speaker 2: was there a chef and he's like, no, no, chef,
Speaker 2: My mom cooked and I read books and we were
Speaker 2: just on a boat.
Speaker 1: They were like Swiss family Robinson on a boat for
Speaker 1: six years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so many hobbies, like so good, yeah, just doing everything.
Speaker 2: And every time we'd mentioned something, he'd be like, I
Speaker 2: speak Russian, Oh yeah, I've been to Scotland.
Speaker 3: Like truly, just a really.
Speaker 2: Eclectic, well rounded, very nice, cool person. And professionally he's
Speaker 2: killing it as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys have seen him on The Man in
Speaker 1: the High Castle, The Young Pope, Supernatural, Vampire Diaries.
Speaker 3: He has a very very prolific.
Speaker 1: IMDb and we were so excited to talk to cult
Speaker 1: leader Arlow himself. Sebastian Roche, do you know that you're
Speaker 1: in the hottest episode of Law and Order svum mine
Speaker 1: in the whole Sist episode?
Speaker 4: Really?
Speaker 2: Yes, There's never been an episode with so many beautiful Yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh yes.
Speaker 1: I felt like they really casted it like models and
Speaker 1: like gorgeous. Yes, and you, well, yeah, it's a hot episode.
Speaker 4: Except I didn't. Didn't I shave my head for the episode.
Speaker 4: I didn't. I didn't really look like Keith Wenire.
Speaker 3: No, well, we were going to bring that up with you.
Speaker 3: We were like, are you do you? Have you been
Speaker 3: watching the Vow? Are you following?
Speaker 6: Helen started watching the Vow because it's a little depressing.
Speaker 6: You know, I'll be honest with you. You know what they did,
Speaker 6: I have some interesting stuff though.
Speaker 1: Yes I'm not.
Speaker 6: Going to name names, but you know, it's very interesting
Speaker 6: my kind of connection two. I mean, I don't have
Speaker 6: a connection to next him, but I you know, there
Speaker 6: were some people who knew who knew that person, who
Speaker 6: were trying to encourage me to go, Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I mean it was so involved in the
Speaker 1: acting world that I'm sure, Like, you know, it's a
Speaker 1: kind of a small world.
Speaker 3: I feel like i'd heard.
Speaker 6: About it through you know, through different people. Yeah, who
Speaker 6: I shall.
Speaker 1: Of course, truly a scoop.
Speaker 2: I didn't imagine a minute in It's like while that
Speaker 2: you were trying to bring in the cult. Did you
Speaker 2: use anyone for inspiration to be this con man?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: I just used you know.
Speaker 6: At first, I said, you know, hey, because I wanted
Speaker 6: to do it in you know, I wanted to be
Speaker 6: as close as I could to to Reneer, And they said, no, no,
Speaker 6: we want you to use your normal accent. So you
Speaker 6: know they oh, and so I did, which distanced it
Speaker 6: from from the sort of dreadful reality.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I don't want to, you know, make
Speaker 1: you embarrassed or anything. But you're better looking and have
Speaker 1: a better accent. So it's like you, Arlow makes more
Speaker 1: sense to me as someone that people would follow. Keith
Speaker 1: Ranieri is like this short weirdo that plays volleyball.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 6: I never understand the desire to join a cult. I
Speaker 6: am so not that kind of person. Every time I've
Speaker 6: been asked to join a movement or you know, or
Speaker 6: a spiritual you know what they call a sort of spiritual.
Speaker 4: What should I say?
Speaker 3: Development kind of yes, I.
Speaker 4: Always go, you know what, I'll find it myself, thank you.
Speaker 6: I don't need to be, you know, in a room
Speaker 6: of twenty people crying about, you know, what they're going through.
Speaker 4: So I know it sounds a bit harsh, but I've never.
Speaker 3: Been a friends who are cult. It sucks.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, no, it does, and it's extremely dangerous and
Speaker 6: we see the result. You know, there are these people
Speaker 6: who are supposedly charismatic, but they're not. They're actually extremely
Speaker 6: good comment you know, right, and what do comment do
Speaker 6: They basically, you know, make you want to hear what
Speaker 6: you want to hear basically, you know, so that's how
Speaker 6: they managed to manipulate you with you know. I mean
Speaker 6: I looked at him and I was like, there's nothing
Speaker 6: formidable intellectually about this man. And I remember I was
Speaker 6: living upstate New York at the term, and his.
Speaker 1: Center was his to Albany.
Speaker 4: His center was in Albany.
Speaker 6: And you know, I'm doing a lot of quote unquote
Speaker 6: because you know, we can make fun of it, but
Speaker 6: I always feel terrible for the victims. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 6: real crime to take people into a cult and then
Speaker 6: abuse them as they did, you know, it really is,
Speaker 6: and take advantage of their finances.
Speaker 1: And you know, we definitely, we definitely respect the victims.
Speaker 1: I just like to make fun of him because I
Speaker 1: think he's like such a little joke. The most recent
Speaker 1: episode was like so packed with misogyny, like he was
Speaker 1: he was just like women, men will not let you
Speaker 1: be better than them, Like we just won't let you.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is I was about to like
Speaker 1: throw something at my television.
Speaker 6: Funnily enough, you rarely see women being the leaders of
Speaker 6: cults because they know better. You know, it's always say
Speaker 6: good as a complex who needs to either get women
Speaker 6: or men or people or you know, but you rarely
Speaker 6: see women who are leaders of cults.
Speaker 4: I mean you have followers.
Speaker 2: The men it seems like they just want to have
Speaker 2: sex with their followers, that's right. I haven't heard of
Speaker 2: a cult where there's not a lot of sex.
Speaker 6: That's pretty much it. It's dudes who just can't and
Speaker 6: who are like, how can I You know.
Speaker 2: Well, so you know you've played this cult leader, You've
Speaker 2: played a Nazi, you played.
Speaker 3: Some other assholes.
Speaker 1: What do you think it is? What do you think
Speaker 1: it is?
Speaker 4: What do you think that is?
Speaker 3: What is it about you?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 6: I think it takes a certain skill to play an asshole,
Speaker 6: for sure, you know, I think that, you know, assholes
Speaker 6: are very complex characters.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 6: I played also this thousand year old vampire who was Oh, yes.
Speaker 3: That's right. You've been in a couple of vampire things.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you know all these and I very often
Speaker 6: played the bad guy. Maybe it has to do with
Speaker 6: the voice, It has to do with the accent, of course,
Speaker 6: you know, even though you know there are tons of
Speaker 6: assholes who have an American accent. I think it just
Speaker 6: has to do with the circumstance. I mean, lately, I've
Speaker 6: been auditioning actually for a lot of kind.
Speaker 4: Of characters and sort of oh more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see what happens after side of Sebastian.
Speaker 4: Another side of Sebastian.
Speaker 1: Obviously we did a deep dive into your IMDb. You've
Speaker 1: been on Law and Order a couple of times, but
Speaker 1: this is your first SVU.
Speaker 4: Yes, I've always I've always wanted to be in SVU.
Speaker 4: First of all, I love Mariska.
Speaker 3: Who doesn't Who doesn't.
Speaker 4: Then when I was on set, I was like, you
Speaker 4: are can I swear?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I was like, you are a fucking amazing And I
Speaker 6: kept saying how amazing she was because she truly is
Speaker 6: one of these.
Speaker 4: She's the kind of woman I adore, you know, super.
Speaker 6: Strong personality, funny, hard working, She's a boss, you know,
Speaker 6: in the best sense of the word.
Speaker 3: You know, And you got lucky because you got to
Speaker 3: be an interrogation room.
Speaker 4: I know. I was like, if I don't get my
Speaker 4: interrogation with Mariska, I'm out of here.
Speaker 6: I couldn't, but you know, contractually, I couldn't, but really
Speaker 6: a wonderful woman, you know, who's spearheaded that show for
Speaker 6: so many years.
Speaker 2: It's so fun that you wanted to be on a
Speaker 2: spe So were you a fan of the show or
Speaker 2: just being in New York for so long you wanted it.
Speaker 6: It's funny because s for you has you know, at first,
Speaker 6: you know, I did Law and Order. That was the
Speaker 6: show to be on, you know, it was my actually
Speaker 6: my first TV gate.
Speaker 4: Was Lawn Order.
Speaker 6: Then my first game in the US TV gig in
Speaker 6: the US TV because I'd done a movie before, a
Speaker 6: couple of movies, so you.
Speaker 4: Know, it was that. Then it switched.
Speaker 6: Then s FU came along, right, s F You was
Speaker 6: the second one, right, and I did two helpings of
Speaker 6: Law and Order. I did one way back in ninety
Speaker 6: three where I played this heavy metal.
Speaker 4: Rock star C Square Man. He was such an asshole.
Speaker 4: Man was a total asshole. And then I played this
Speaker 4: guy who had a problem with his temper. And then
Speaker 4: I always I always.
Speaker 6: Wanted to be honest to you because you know, there
Speaker 6: was criminal intent and everything and everyone. Then Stu became
Speaker 6: a sort of you know, a writer passage for great actors.
Speaker 4: As was Law and order prior and.
Speaker 6: I always wanted to and I thought it's never going
Speaker 6: to happen, and then literally the offer came in and
Speaker 6: it was really wonderful.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 6: I was really excited because you know, it's it's kind
Speaker 6: of a badge of honor.
Speaker 4: Now a lot of.
Speaker 6: Stars do it, and I felt actually really flattered to
Speaker 6: be brought on.
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because I wanted to ask you about
Speaker 2: the audition process and Kara said, no, I was.
Speaker 6: Very flattered, and you know, to get an offer, you know,
Speaker 6: it was really really wonderful. They treated me wonderfully, They
Speaker 6: were really great. It was a really wonderful experience.
Speaker 2: And while stalking a little bit, we saw you did
Speaker 2: like over three hundred episodes of General.
Speaker 4: Yes, wow, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2: What's it like working on a set for that long
Speaker 2: doing so much of anything?
Speaker 4: That was? That was really great?
Speaker 3: Actually does that shoot in New York?
Speaker 4: No? Shoots in La? Oh?
Speaker 3: It shoots in La Okay?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Because I was in New York at the time,
Speaker 4: and my agent says.
Speaker 6: Oh, they're offering, they'd like to offer you sixty episodes
Speaker 6: or something like that on on gh On General Hospital.
Speaker 6: And I thought to myself, I don't know if I
Speaker 6: want to do that right now, and eventually I accepted,
Speaker 6: and I it was one of the best decisions I
Speaker 6: made in my life. First of all, it changed my
Speaker 6: I was living in New York, I was going through
Speaker 6: a hard time, you know, you know, things happened, going
Speaker 6: through a divorce and going through you know, a difficult time.
Speaker 6: And it sort of brought me to LA and they
Speaker 6: treated me like I was Lawrence Oliviu, you know, the
Speaker 6: great exactly. And I they let me do pretty much
Speaker 6: whatever I wanted as an act, and it's sort of rekindled.
Speaker 6: I was at a point where, you know, sometimes you
Speaker 6: feel that your work is not giving you.
Speaker 4: Much back. You're you're sort of stuck.
Speaker 6: And I started basically improvising and finding rebooting my acting
Speaker 6: in that show and everyone, I mean, they couldn't.
Speaker 4: Have been niceer.
Speaker 6: The whole cast was so welcoming and I had a
Speaker 6: ball for two years. I was contracted for two years,
Speaker 6: and then I came back pretty much every year till
Speaker 6: two thousand, twenty fifteen for you know, little sprinkles of Baddy.
Speaker 6: And I was an uber bad guy, but who was
Speaker 6: like mister Who's like James bond On crack.
Speaker 4: I call it, you know, basically on met now.
Speaker 6: To update it to nowadays, and it was it was
Speaker 6: a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: And doing so many episodes, you know, was was fun.
Speaker 4: You're always working, you're you know, people say it's difficult.
Speaker 4: I don't agree.
Speaker 6: You know, you have twenty thirty pages of dialogue, but
Speaker 6: your brain gets used to it.
Speaker 3: But I can't imagine you.
Speaker 6: Start working really fast. Your brain, it gets accustomed to it.
Speaker 6: You know, it's it's I loved every second.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 6: Some people say you shouldn't do soaps, and I would
Speaker 6: advise anyone to do it.
Speaker 3: You've got you've know, you told us so much. This
Speaker 3: has been amazing. We really thank you for.
Speaker 1: Your time and my pleasure. I am not I am
Speaker 1: actually a person that does not like to see people
Speaker 1: come back to SVU as different characters because it takes
Speaker 1: me out of it.
Speaker 3: But I will say I'd love.
Speaker 1: To see you back on in a few years, in
Speaker 1: a few years so that I forget about Arlow and
Speaker 1: that you're you're new. It could be a new person.
Speaker 4: I'd loved it.
Speaker 6: I'd love to come back. Maybe I could come back
Speaker 6: like yeah Russia.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's always Russian crimes on
Speaker 1: that show. There's like brighton beach stuff. There's all kinds
Speaker 1: of stuff. Yeah, all right, well, hopefully the casting people
Speaker 1: are listening to this and.
Speaker 3: They can touch on you. Sebastia, thank you so much
Speaker 3: for talking to us.
Speaker 4: Thank you. It was a pleasure, all right.
Speaker 1: That was the thrilling. I mean, we talked to a
Speaker 1: cool cult leader. You guys didn't get to see him.
Speaker 1: We saw his face over zoom, and he's a he's
Speaker 1: as handsome as he is as a cult leader, honest
Speaker 1: for you. So what are we what's our post mortem
Speaker 1: on this episode about? Don't join a cult? Don't join
Speaker 1: a cult, you guys, even if you feel like you're
Speaker 1: in part of some organization that's really helping you come
Speaker 1: up with realize some things about yourself. Like that's great.
Speaker 1: You can walk away when the director wants to put
Speaker 1: his penis inside of you, or they want to brand you,
Speaker 1: or when.
Speaker 3: They want the deed dear house. Yeah, when they want money.
Speaker 1: Go to therapy. I feel collateral. If they want collateral nude,
Speaker 1: you got to see yourself out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just.
Speaker 2: Go to therapy, you know, join a kickboxing class, like
Speaker 2: there's just better ways to self improve.
Speaker 3: Right and location.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you have to leave the CLT, don't be
Speaker 1: that scared about your nudes getting out.
Speaker 3: Everyone's got nudes. It's like, don't worry. So it's okay.
Speaker 2: If you're not married to the dad of your baby
Speaker 2: like that wash. Wait, remember he was shaming rollins of
Speaker 2: like that baby and your belly. You don't know the daddy,
Speaker 2: And it's like, all right, stop, she knows the daddy.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: Brolin's two kids.
Speaker 1: The first one is the daughter of a international like
Speaker 1: sort of spy man who's part of the government. And
Speaker 1: then the second one is a surgeon. We don't really
Speaker 1: know what happened with him.
Speaker 3: I think he turned out to be he was a cheater. Listen.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, if you have a baby and you
Speaker 2: don't want the data in their life, that's fine. Fine,
Speaker 2: get money if you can't, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: And if a bunch of ladies are approaching you wearing
Speaker 1: peasant tops and offering you cucumber water, you need to run.
Speaker 2: And and I learned this a lot in Russian television
Speaker 2: as well. Do not go to jail for a man, Yes,
Speaker 2: do not ever say that you committed a crime you
Speaker 2: did not commit that a man committed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is that. Do not go to Joe for
Speaker 1: a man. It's gonna be on T shirts. We're gonna
Speaker 1: make it, I swear, like when Benson is just like,
Speaker 1: don't think about the last ten years, think about the
Speaker 1: next twenty. You're gonna rot in jail for this psychopath.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't get don't charter planes for your ex.
Speaker 1: Ask somebody a private jet. If you're trying to get out.
Speaker 3: Of the country.
Speaker 1: Make sure your private jet is always gassed. I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, like.
Speaker 2: But yeah, if your x don't help your ex husband
Speaker 2: escape the law.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she was so beautiful.
Speaker 1: That was dumb.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we learned a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was definitely definitely a hot episode. All jokes.
Speaker 2: If you're like a bus boy and the hottest woman
Speaker 2: on earth is trying to fuck you at a bar,
Speaker 2: she might be trying to plant blood on your path.
Speaker 3: Oopsie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and watch out men, if you're listening, watch out
Speaker 1: for ladies that have brands on them because something went wrong.
Speaker 1: But yeah, all jokes aside. I mean, the nexium thing
Speaker 1: is like very tragic. If you I recommend watching the
Speaker 1: Vow it is people will say it's long. It is
Speaker 1: a lot of episodes. I enjoyed all the episodes. I
Speaker 1: thought it was. It was a really deep dive. It's
Speaker 1: a little bit drawn out, but you know that's their
Speaker 1: filmmaking style. There's also, I believe, a CBC podcast about
Speaker 1: the vow. There's a lot of ways you can get
Speaker 1: more information. I would never tell you that my twenty
Speaker 1: minute recap is the end all be all of the
Speaker 1: Nexium situation.
Speaker 2: I also don't remember the name, but there is a
Speaker 2: Hulu show that or I don't know. I Hulu originally
Speaker 2: made it, but it's on Hulu and there's one episode
Speaker 2: about Nexium.
Speaker 3: But then it's all these different cults, like okay, what's
Speaker 3: that called again?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but there I'm sure if you put something,
Speaker 2: but there's some Mormon stuff.
Speaker 3: There's like a brotherhood and they take it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, if you're just into cults, that's yea thing
Speaker 1: to check how I'll look into. Okay, now it is
Speaker 1: time for WWSPD What would Sister Peg Do? Where we
Speaker 1: point you guys to a resource that connects to today's episode,
Speaker 1: and today we want to get your attention on Rain.
Speaker 1: That's our ai n end two ends. Rain dot org
Speaker 1: is the website. RAIN is the nation's largest anti sexual
Speaker 1: violence organization. They do amazing work and you know, the
Speaker 1: members of these cults have definitely been taken advantage of
Speaker 1: and sexually abused. And if you in or out of
Speaker 1: a cult, have had an experience with this and are
Speaker 1: looking for any resources, RAIN is the place to go
Speaker 1: to or if you are looking to donate to help
Speaker 1: victims of sexual assault. We highly recommend RAIN and we
Speaker 1: will probably be talking about it again in future Sister
Speaker 1: Peg segments. So that is RAIN our ai n N
Speaker 1: dot org.
Speaker 2: And next week's episode is going to be Porn Stars
Speaker 2: Requiem Season sixteen, episode five. And you can catch all
Speaker 2: episodes of SVU on Hulu or peacock or buy them.
Speaker 2: And if you enjoyed the pod, don't be shy, give us,
Speaker 2: you know some stock you can review us.
Speaker 1: Just remember that if you actually liked it, remember that
Speaker 1: you're giving us a high number of stars, because nothing's
Speaker 1: worse than seeing obsessed with this pod.
Speaker 3: One star. You obviously hit the wrong button.
Speaker 2: This actually was a big issue for me when I
Speaker 2: moved to America because it's opposite in Russia of numbers
Speaker 2: and my parents would like be pissed, but I was
Speaker 2: actually doing okay.
Speaker 3: Wait, you mean one star was like the best you
Speaker 3: can do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so like I would get five stars or
Speaker 1: something or four and so I just remember them there
Speaker 1: being an issue where I had to explain how grating
Speaker 1: was different here. All right, well we're going to try
Speaker 1: to work Lisa through her star trauma. But meanwhile, we'll
Speaker 1: see you guys next week. Bye.
Speaker 3: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 2: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 2: episodes you like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 2: at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's mess and on
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Speaker 1: our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer and fellow s
Speaker 2: View super fan Hannah Kyle Craton.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our heroes Stephen Ray Morris and Annalie
Speaker 1: Snelson are engineers.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski, Musical Extraordinaire for our theme song.
Speaker 1: To our artistic queen, Carly gen Andrews for all of
Speaker 1: our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgareff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
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