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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, gracious gosh, golly, jeepers, it's Behind the Bastard.

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Speaker 2: It's a podcast about the worst people in all of history,

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Speaker 2: and today the worst people in all of history are

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Speaker 2: me and Sophie. Because even though this podcast has a

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Speaker 2: video version that some of you listen to, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to be on video this week, which will not

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Speaker 2: affect the vast majority of our listeners. And you're like,

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Speaker 2: why are you telling it to us because some people

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Speaker 2: watch this on YouTube and we're going video off. Why

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Speaker 2: because I look like shit today and.

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Speaker 3: Feel like shit today being.

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Speaker 2: I was going to say, you're just being sympathetic to me,

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Speaker 2: but yes, well.

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Speaker 4: No, no, because I was the first one to go,

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Speaker 4: I'm not doing video time.

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Speaker 5: I'm not doing video today, And then you joined my cause,

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Speaker 5: Andrew t our guest, are you feeling like shit today?

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Speaker 6: I am.

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Speaker 7: I am a little sleepy because I stayed up too

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Speaker 7: late watching TV. Yeah, we've got the epvpst Yeah. I

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Speaker 7: was watching Horses.

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Speaker 3: Are you a Slow Horses fan?

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Speaker 6: You seem like you would be.

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Speaker 2: I watched the first season of it, and I love

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Speaker 2: Commissioner Gordon or whatever that guy's real name is, and

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Speaker 2: he's lovely in it. I I'm kind of over spy shows.

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Speaker 8: I guess I used to love them. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I guess I need to see. It's gotta be real

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Speaker 2: different for me to get super But I watched the

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Speaker 2: first season.

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Speaker 6: It was fine. Yeah, it's not very different.

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Speaker 3: I will say.

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Speaker 7: I think what I thought was going to happen was

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Speaker 7: it's played as it's maybe going to be more of

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Speaker 7: a comedy, and then a pretty straight ahead spy show.

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Speaker 7: After the first bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was totally it's a different kind of spy thing.

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Speaker 2: But no, they're just doing spy stuff. They're just like

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Speaker 2: the underdogs, I guess. But by the end of the

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Speaker 2: season they're just like other spies.

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Speaker 6: It's fine, it's fine, Yeah.

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Speaker 7: They're they're they get they get into minimum regular dogs

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Speaker 7: and possibly overdog status pretty quickly.

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Speaker 2: As a CIA agent myself, you know, I've just had

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Speaker 2: enough of that in my day job destroying the left

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Speaker 2: from within as an agent for you know, the Central

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Speaker 2: Intelligence whatever whatever. People on Twitter are saying this week, Andrew,

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Speaker 2: you would I.

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Speaker 6: Will say, you would be.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I guess it's like too on the nose

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Speaker 7: to have you be a spy. I think it would

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Speaker 7: just be too like it's more like Sophie obviously is

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Speaker 7: in the CIA.

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Speaker 2: Sophie's definitely in the CIA. Well, yeah, of course, obviously.

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Speaker 2: There's never been any doubt in my mind about that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Why are we telling people about this?

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Speaker 2: Because I'm I was a fan of the show burn

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Speaker 2: Notice I wasn't really, but I like Bruce Campbell, and

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Speaker 2: I feel like if you get burned because your spy

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Speaker 2: identity gets revealed, I might get to meet Bruce Campbell.

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Speaker 8: I'm not really sure how this is gonna work.

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Speaker 6: But I'll figure it out.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Bruce, if you're listening, you want to have a beer,

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Speaker 2: you know, Yeah.

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Speaker 8: Seems like a cool guy.

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Speaker 7: I'm just saying, Sylvie, if Sylvie just had one job

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Speaker 7: instead of, you know, destroying the left from within.

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Speaker 2: And as she's doing, absolutely just easy speaking of evil

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Speaker 2: people destroying something. How do you feel about stand up comedy?

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Speaker 3: I wait? Have we not talked about this?

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Speaker 6: I I we haven't.

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Speaker 8: Actually I have.

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Speaker 4: We have, which is why I was like when I

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Speaker 4: realized what the topic was, I was very excited.

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Speaker 7: I mean, listen, I love plenty of stand up comedians. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: but I think the institution of stand up comedy is

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Speaker 7: so thoroughly poisoned by at best sort of reactionary like,

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Speaker 7: uh huh, why structure interesting?

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Speaker 2: Interesting, It's interesting that stand up comedy, you know, as

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Speaker 2: valuable and influential as it is, and we all have

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Speaker 2: a lot of stand up comedy that we love and

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Speaker 2: this meant stuff to us. Yes, it has this weird

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Speaker 2: reactionary tinge that that feels like, oh, it's got to

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Speaker 2: be this modern thing. It couldn't be baked in. It

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Speaker 2: couldn't be that the literal inventor of stand up comedy

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Speaker 2: as a discipline was a fascist, could it.

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Speaker 7: I listen, Robert, if you're gonna this is not only okay? Actually,

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Speaker 7: so the little tiny peak by the garden is. I

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Speaker 7: was having lunch with my friend and I told him

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Speaker 7: I had to leave because I had to be on

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Speaker 7: Behind the Bastards. And he was like, oh, like, what

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Speaker 7: prep do you do? And I was like, oh no, no, it.

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Speaker 8: Is always that's not the idea.

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Speaker 7: The guest comes in and I'm just like, I'm hit

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Speaker 7: with it. This is going to be by far. Not

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Speaker 7: that the other episodes I've been on have not been

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Speaker 7: illuminating and educational. I think this might be directly useful

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Speaker 7: to my life. O.

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Speaker 2: Good, well, it's hurt for that because today did you

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Speaker 2: did you know there was a guy who invented stand

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Speaker 2: up comedy?

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Speaker 3: Always want to ask, like a single.

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Speaker 8: Guy who is credited as being a vogue.

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Speaker 6: That is wild?

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Speaker 8: It is wild, right?

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Speaker 7: I would have assumed it would be like, you know,

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Speaker 7: apocryphally Aristotle or some shit like that.

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Speaker 2: You know, there is there are different people, and obviously

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Speaker 2: things that are kind of in the dna of stand

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Speaker 2: up comedy have existed probably for as long as people

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Speaker 2: have like things we can be like, oh, you could

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Speaker 2: kind of see that as being But there is a

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Speaker 2: guy who invented what we recognize as stand up comedy,

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Speaker 2: where a guy walks up wearing like normal clothing on

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Speaker 2: stage and just starts telling funny stories, generally based on

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Speaker 2: observations about the world. Right, That is something a guy

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Speaker 2: came up with. And that motherfucker's name is Frank Faye

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Speaker 2: and we're going to talk about him today.

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Speaker 3: This is amazing.

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Speaker 7: I'll like, I'm listen. I've always thrilled to be here,

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Speaker 7: but this one is.

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Speaker 6: Like, I I can't.

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Speaker 7: I've never been able to articulate why I hate the

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Speaker 7: stand up comedy other than the vibe.

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Speaker 6: So this is great.

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Speaker 4: See that's how I feel about improv. But it's probably

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Speaker 4: because I've had to go to so many people's improv shows.

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Speaker 3: Improv yeh, improv.

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Speaker 2: Improv is actually evil. But the improv people know this.

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Speaker 2: This is not We're not We're not breaking for them.

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Speaker 4: My dear friends know about my extreme loathing of improv,

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Speaker 4: and whenever it's brought up, they look at me and

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Speaker 4: they go, we won't talk about it because it's that bad.

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Speaker 3: I love you.

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Speaker 2: Stand upside a big. I've done stand up. It's had

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Speaker 2: a big influence on me. I loved Bill Hicks. I

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Speaker 2: still do. Yeah, a lot of his stuff has aged.

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Speaker 2: Well someone hasn't stand up to me.

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Speaker 6: DNS. Yeah, I obviously can name it? Yeah, oh please?

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Speaker 8: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yes? And can I can I improv trauma dump for

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Speaker 4: one second?

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Speaker 8: Oh sure? Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In my early twenties, I once had a boyfriend and

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Speaker 4: take me to say I have a special surprise for you,

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Speaker 4: and I'm thinking, oh, what could that be? I'm girly pop,

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Speaker 4: And then it was. He took me to a improv

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Speaker 4: show where we were the only people in the audience,

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Speaker 4: and it was no, and it and I.

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Speaker 3: Hate it, and like I.

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Speaker 2: Was surprising, Yeah, it was bad. I feel like it

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Speaker 2: should be legal in that instance. I feel like it

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Speaker 2: should be legal to kill the people on stage, not

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Speaker 2: as not to be mean, not as an act of cruelty,

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Speaker 2: like that's just mercy, right, Like if you're performing improv

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Speaker 2: to an audience of two at a full theater, it's

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Speaker 2: just it's just kinder to die.

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Speaker 4: And I just kept including us in the bits.

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Speaker 2: Of course, of course they have no other idea.

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Speaker 8: What a nightmare?

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Speaker 6: What hell?

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Speaker 4: It was almost as bad as the relationship.

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Speaker 8: Hey, let's do it.

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Speaker 7: No, I was gonna say, Sophy, I think it's reasonable,

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Speaker 7: especially I think if you've been single in your like

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Speaker 7: let's say twenties at any point in Los Angeles or

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Speaker 7: New York, and Prova is a weirdly big part of that. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: I think a lot more people think it's a good

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Speaker 7: date then it's not.

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Speaker 4: It's a bad time.

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Speaker 2: It's a bad time. And dating comedians also real mixed bag.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you that that's just I've never done it.

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Speaker 2: I've been the comedian. But based on the experiences of

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Speaker 2: the women I've known of dated stand up comedians and me.

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Speaker 2: All Right, I think that's enough for the cold open,

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Speaker 2: and we're back. So we're talking about the inventor of

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Speaker 2: stand up comedy. He also invented being an mcuh like,

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Speaker 2: he's the first actual MC. This guy's crazy and fluid.

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Speaker 4: Guy's a nightmare.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Frank Fay. Yes, he's also a bigot, an abusive spouse,

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Speaker 2: and an American fascist activist par excellence, so trifactor. He's

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Speaker 2: everything you know. Joe Rogan before Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, ce comedian fascist, Ye.

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Speaker 8: Did it all. He did it all. He's killed Tony.

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Speaker 8: He's Joe Rogan.

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Speaker 2: He's everybody you know, he's everybody.

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Speaker 8: So heyo, I'm.

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Speaker 4: Gonna I'm sorry, I'm gonna hao a lot of Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, that's that's great, that's great. Born Francis Anthony Donner

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Speaker 2: or perhaps donar do na. It's either do in an

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Speaker 2: er or do o in ar. There's both on some

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Speaker 2: documents and I anyway, what it doesn't really matter. H

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Speaker 2: Born Francis Anthony Donor on November seventeenth, eighteen ninety one,

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Speaker 2: in San Francisco, California, A His parents were what you

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Speaker 2: might call small time traveling performers. Also is a note

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Speaker 2: in an episode recently, someone called me out for mispronouncing

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Speaker 2: Nevada because I called it as like a joke. Doesn't

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Speaker 2: even fuck you, it's a bit go to hell, I say,

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Speaker 2: Nevada Wright fuck off.

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Speaker 8: Anyway.

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Speaker 2: His mother, Mary was a stage actress at the start

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Speaker 2: of her career. His father, William, was a poet and

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Speaker 2: also just about everything else. These people are like theater kids, right,

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Speaker 2: They're protos. They're er theater kids, you know, so much

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Speaker 2: so that they like travel around doing theater with like

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Speaker 2: a traveling group to make a living, a bad living.

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Speaker 8: They're not doing well.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: His father was a lyric poet who prior to meeting

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Speaker 2: his mom, who was a stage actor, his dad had

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Speaker 2: been like a poet and a conductor on the Southern

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Speaker 2: Pacific Railroad. He'd fought Indians, he'd prospected in a mine.

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Speaker 2: But it was as an actor and a comedian that

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Speaker 2: he came to be known as Chicago Billy Fay. Now again,

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Speaker 2: that's like not I think the name he's born under.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a stage name that he adopts, although

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Speaker 2: it's a little unclear to me at any rate. Frank

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Speaker 2: starts his you know, he and his wife get together

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Speaker 2: and they start traveling around this like traveling vaudeville show.

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Speaker 2: And we'll talk about vaudeville, but basically it's a traveling

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Speaker 2: variety show, right, and they're performing doing different kinds of bits,

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Speaker 2: going all around the country while their little boy is

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Speaker 2: a small child. And because everybody has to like do

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Speaker 2: something to contribute to the company that they're keeping, he

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Speaker 2: starts performing as a very little kid. Right, he's maybe

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Speaker 2: four years old at the at the oldest when he

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Speaker 2: starts performing on stage.

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Speaker 6: First child Labor got worked into this.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, they don't give a shit at this. No,

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Speaker 2: because we're getting factories. This is like nice standards. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, early late eighteen hundreds, child Labor. His first

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Speaker 2: stage role is as a potato bug in the play

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Speaker 2: Babes in Toyland, and his biographers all suggest that he

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Speaker 2: changed his name from Francis Donner to Frank Fan because

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Speaker 2: it read better on a marquee at some point in

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Speaker 2: his childhood. I don't think that's true. The scant genealogical

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Speaker 2: evidence I can find from wiki tree suggests his father

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Speaker 2: was born as William Faye, although his dad may have

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Speaker 2: taken that name because we know that he was born

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Speaker 2: as Donner, So it's a little unclear. Did his dad

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Speaker 2: adopt Faye as a stage name, and so Frank started

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Speaker 2: using Faye as a stage name. His mom's last name

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Speaker 2: was Tynan. I don't really know. Everyone seems to say

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Speaker 2: he picked the name Frank Faye, but it really does

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Speaker 2: look like his dad did, and he just decided to

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Speaker 2: take the dast name his dad did. But I don't

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Speaker 2: have like stronger evidence on it than that.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I feel like tracking down Carney's real names

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Speaker 7: is going to be perpetually tough.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, who cares? Right?

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Speaker 2: I always do my best with this sort of thing,

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Speaker 2: But these are fucking Carnes.

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Speaker 8: Who knows what their real names were? No, he had

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Speaker 8: birth er tip.

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Speaker 2: Poor people don't have b in eighteen ninety one, Like,

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Speaker 2: there's no record of these people.

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Speaker 6: Everyone's an alias.

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Speaker 2: You think these fuckers got social Security cards? So the

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Speaker 2: family sprint Frank's childhood crisscrossing the nation as part of

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Speaker 2: a fairly popular vaudeville act. Now I mentioned that earlier.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about what vaudeville was. Do you know anything

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Speaker 2: about vaudeville? Andrew.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I guess I'm realizing now most of my

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Speaker 7: knowledge of Vaudeville almost certainly comes from looney.

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Speaker 2: Tunes, right, looty tunes and maybe some families Seth Macfarland's

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Speaker 2: obsessed with it, so it winds up in.

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Speaker 8: All of his shit too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Vaudeville was the number one form of entertainment from

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Speaker 2: like the late eighteen hundreds and up to the early

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Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds in the US, like during kind of like

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Speaker 2: the Victorian era and a little laughter, Like Vaudeville is

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Speaker 2: the big all over the West, and it had started

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Speaker 2: about fifty years before Frank's birth, so we're talking in

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Speaker 2: like the mid eighteen early like the eighteen forties, eighteen fifties.

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Speaker 2: It started in France, and it originally kind of like

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Speaker 2: a comedy act and like pretty focused on comedic performances,

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Speaker 2: but it changes through in the UK. There's some like

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Speaker 2: they introduce kind of more stage elements and people start

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Speaker 2: like adding like one act plays or like they'll do

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Speaker 2: like scenes from famous plays, so you'll do like a

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Speaker 2: little bit of Shakespeare or something, you know, just the

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Speaker 2: good bits somebody like Mark Antony's funeral oration or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And by the time it's migrated to the US. It's everything, right,

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Speaker 2: It's almost it's essentially kind of like a quasi circus

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Speaker 2: style act right, yeah, and probably the closest modern equivalent

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Speaker 2: to what Vaudeville was when it kind of hits its

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Speaker 2: height in the US and the late eighteen hundreds would

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Speaker 2: be like the modern late night show or maybe to

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Speaker 2: be more accurate, like late night in like the era.

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Speaker 8: Of Johnny Carson. Right, Yeah, it's height.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, got like a little bit of everything.

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Speaker 2: It's a little bit of everything. There's not like a

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Speaker 2: main host most of the time. Like sometimes there will

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Speaker 2: be a guy and it's him and he'll like come

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Speaker 2: on and introduce the act, but he's not like the

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Speaker 2: draw in the way like.

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Speaker 6: Carson was or like Colberry's you know, right, soon to.

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Speaker 8: Be late show.

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Speaker 2: Right, but it is like a late night show and

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Speaker 2: that you've got a bunch of different things, a little bit,

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Speaker 2: as you said, a little bit of everything. So you'll

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Speaker 2: have comedians coming up and like doing skits, right, so

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Speaker 2: they'll pipe under the face or whatever. You'll have actors

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Speaker 2: do bits of plays. Sometimes you'll have one act full

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Speaker 2: one act plays performed. You'll have musicians come on and

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Speaker 2: do songs in between acts, you'll have stunts, you'll have

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Speaker 2: trained animals. There's a little bit of like even like

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Speaker 2: a morning show, right, that kind of there's some of

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Speaker 2: that DNA in there. Right, there's like you could like

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Speaker 2: fucking the view is in the line of descent from Vaudeville, right, right,

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Speaker 2: Like you know what, it.

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Speaker 7: Also sounds like a little bit there's a little bit

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Speaker 7: of like just America's got talent, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, yeah, yeah, this is like this is the

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Speaker 2: primordial ooze from wherein like almost all modern entertainment kind

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Speaker 2: of comes out of is Vaudeville, right, And yeah, by

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Speaker 2: the time it hits the and it's different in every

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Speaker 2: country in the West, but by the time it hits

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Speaker 2: the US, it's become it's it's kind of hard to

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Speaker 2: tell where circus ends in Vaudeville begins sometimes, right, and

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Speaker 2: there are like circuses that are like Vaudeville basically. Right,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of Saturday Night Live, you know, or

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Speaker 2: a lot of Vaudeville DNA in Saturday Night Live. Right,

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Speaker 2: Because often these comedies skits do kind of lean political too. Now,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of racism baked into vaudeville in the US,

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Speaker 2: because one major popular thing in vaudeville are in the US.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure this happened in Europe too, but

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Speaker 2: it's particularly the US. Thing are minstrel shows, right am

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Speaker 2: I N S t R E L. I've run onto

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Speaker 2: zoomers who don't understand. You think I'm talking about menstruation,

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Speaker 2: very different thing, that would be a really different show.

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Speaker 2: This is minstrel shows. Are white people dressing in blackface

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Speaker 2: and pretending to be racist caricatures of black Americans. Right,

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Speaker 2: It's just super racist. That's all we need to say

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Speaker 2: about it.

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Speaker 8: Right now.

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Speaker 2: The best thing I can say for young Frank is

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00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 2: that I don't think he performed in any of these.

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00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 2: Maybe he did right as a kid. There's a decent

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Speaker 2: chance he wound up doing something like just because everyone

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00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,160
Speaker 2: does a little bit of everything. But I don't find

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00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,600
Speaker 2: any of that written in his backstory. Instead, he's really

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Speaker 2: drawn from a young age to dramatic acting, which which

347
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,840
Speaker 2: separates him. His father is a comedic actor. And Frank

348
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,720
Speaker 2: really likes doing Shakespeare, you know, from as soon as

349
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Speaker 2: he can. He's doing every Shakespeare. When they're doing these

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00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,520
Speaker 2: segments from Shakespeare, plays. He estimates that by the time

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Speaker 2: he was fifteen, he had performed in pieces of every

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Speaker 2: single one of the Bard's dramatic plays besides Titus Andronicus,

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Speaker 2: which I'm guessing is because a bunch of drunk yokels

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Speaker 2: in the eighteen nineties or nineteen oh five don't really

355
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,360
Speaker 2: want to see Titus fucking Andronicus. Yeah, let's get drug

356
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,120
Speaker 2: on moonshine and watch fucking Titus Andronicus.

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Speaker 6: Oh man, none of us can read, but sure sounds foreign.

358
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Speaker 6: Don't like it.

359
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Speaker 2: Yeah, Now we know vanishingly little about his early life

360
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,119
Speaker 2: outside of a stage career, what his parents were like.

361
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess he got abused at least the normal

362
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,280
Speaker 2: amount physically, right, it'd be weird if he's just assuming

363
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,679
Speaker 2: we wouldn't know about it. Yeah, but not enough that

364
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 2: like he said anything about it, or that it was

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Speaker 2: a particular like although again, he has no dedicated biographers really,

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Speaker 2: so it may just be that this was also a

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Speaker 2: time when men didn't talk about the shit that happened

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Speaker 2: to them as kids, especially guys like Frankie Fay. What

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00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,160
Speaker 2: we do know is that he never spends much time

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Speaker 2: in school. At best, he has maybe a fifth grade education.

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Speaker 2: And I don't even know if he would really be

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Speaker 2: accurate to say he had a fifth grade education, Like

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Speaker 2: it said that he never made it past the fifth grade.

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Speaker 2: They're traveling constantly. He has odd classes, but he's a

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Speaker 2: very smart kid, and he teaches himself to read and write. Again,

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Speaker 2: he has basically all of Shakespeare's dramas memorized his whole life. Right,

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Speaker 2: So this is a smart kid, and this is a

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00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 2: kid probably didn't really need much in the way of

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00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 2: formal education. He's an autodid act, right. He also there's

380
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,159
Speaker 2: not I mean, there are theater schools, but he doesn't

381
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,640
Speaker 2: benefit from that. He is living in an around these

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00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 2: actors and performers, and he learns from them and from

383
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,959
Speaker 2: just his own. He's got instincts, he learns how to perform.

384
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Speaker 2: So he's basically his whole childhood is theater school.

385
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Speaker 8: Right.

386
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 2: As he gets closer to being an adult, his ambition again.

387
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 2: He wants to be a serious actor. He wants to

388
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,760
Speaker 2: be a stage actor somewhere like Broadway, you know, performing

389
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 2: trotting the boards. But this is not to be, and

390
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,480
Speaker 2: years later he would blame his failure to break through

391
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 2: as a serious actor on the fact that he was

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Speaker 2: a redhead.

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Speaker 8: Quote.

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Speaker 2: For that reason, neither the public nor then managers take

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Speaker 2: me seriously when I claim that would be a great

396
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,719
Speaker 2: dramatic actor, and I think this is actually true, like

397
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,159
Speaker 2: that just like, no, you're a redhead. That's funny, Like

398
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 2: it's funny. You need to be a fucking clown, Like

399
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,080
Speaker 2: nobody wants to see a redhead. Be fucking Mark Antony.

400
00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 2: Get out of here, get like accept it your comedy.

401
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 2: So as he grows into a young adult, you know,

402
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,760
Speaker 2: he kind of splits from family. It's unclear a little

403
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 2: bit exactly when, but he like he goes off on

404
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 2: his own. He tries to make it. He's not initially

405
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 2: successful because you know, and he flits around different shows,

406
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 2: traveling shows, stage shows, just doing the only thing he

407
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: knows how to do. He does try his luck as

408
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 2: a boxer, which is weirdly common for like comedians of

409
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 2: this era, a lot of the great first generation of

410
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 2: comedians also had box because it's like, god, yeah, if

411
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 2: you're if you're if you're in the same performing in

412
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,639
Speaker 2: the same kind of places. It's also where they do

413
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,120
Speaker 2: bare knuckle boxing. Right, Yeah, we'll see if you're good

414
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 2: at it.

415
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,959
Speaker 7: It's Robert, it is crazy to learn that the fucking

416
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 7: jiu jitsu freak stand up. You guys also have a

417
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 7: historical presence, long, long and proud history.

418
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 2: He was not good at it, by his own recollection quote,

419
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 2: I was a pugilist at one time, and what a ham.

420
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 2: I was so poor that I myself realized I was

421
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 2: no good. And when a boxer knows he is no good,

422
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 2: he is terrible. Yeah, which is like, yeah, that's that's

423
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 2: pretty true. When the guys with head injuries for a

424
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: living know that they can't they're not good boxers.

425
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 7: Well, it's like like whatever ego it takes to put

426
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 7: you in the ring is usually a thing.

427
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 6: That keeps you from leaving nine.

428
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, if you have it and you're like nah.

429
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 8: Nah, I do you know what else sucks? Andrew?

430
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:22,720
Speaker 6: Oh hit me?

431
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 2: Not buying the products and services that support this podcast.

432
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 2: In fact, if you're not buying these products and services,

433
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 2: like I don't believe in simulation theory, but you're a

434
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: simulation of a real person because real people buy from

435
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 2: our sponsors.

436
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 8: Is this a good idea? Sophie? Does the audience like it?

437
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 8: When I do this?

438
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 3: I don't really care at this point, fuck them, I.

439
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 8: Love you, goodbye, and we're back.

440
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 2: So he's a bad boxer, but the experience does seem

441
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: to have left a mark on him for the rest

442
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,320
Speaker 2: of his professional career, even after he makes it big.

443
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 2: Frank Fay will carry a set of boxing gloves with

444
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 2: him from theater to theater and like put them up

445
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: in his you know, office is the wrong word his

446
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 2: like powder room or whatever, to remind him of his origins, right,

447
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 2: Like it's like a this is something that like leaves

448
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 2: an impact on him, maybe just because of the head injuries.

449
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 8: I don't know.

450
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, the only impact, Yeah, the eternal impact.

451
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: So he tries next to make and he's probably in

452
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,959
Speaker 2: his late teens, maybe young adult, maybe eighteen nineteen at

453
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 2: his point, he tries to make a name for himself

454
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,920
Speaker 2: as a ballad singer. Next and you can find I'm

455
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 2: not going to play you his old time as singing.

456
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 2: But he has a nice singing voice, right, He's known

457
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: for having a nice singing voice. It sounds weird to

458
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 2: us because he sings in a way that people really

459
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 2: don't these days. But like he was, he was considered

460
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 2: very good and for a time, he teamed up with

461
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,680
Speaker 2: another balladier, but the act ran into a problem, which

462
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 2: is that people don't like ballads and they didn't want

463
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 2: to hear his ballads. So he broke up the act.

464
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 2: And the next thing he does is he gets together

465
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: with an older performer and named John Dire, and Dire

466
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: is a vaudeville comedian like Frank's father had been. The

467
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 2: way Frank would later tell it, like he'd been pigeonholed

468
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: because of his hair color. And this is just him

469
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 2: like bowing wearily to the inevitable because he needs money. Like,

470
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: I guess this is the thing I'm destined to do.

471
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 2: I can't do better than comedy. This guy Johnny wants

472
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,680
Speaker 2: to take Manders wing. I'll try it now. One of

473
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,640
Speaker 2: my sources for these episodes is the book The Comedians,

474
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: which is a history of American comedy by Cliff Nesterhoff,

475
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: and it does a good job of describing what a

476
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: miserable existence this act was for Frank at first. Quote,

477
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,360
Speaker 2: veteran comic Johnny Dyer goaded Fay into showbiz while regularly

478
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 2: hustling him in billiards. Dyer wrote an act in which

479
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 2: Fay wore baggy pants, roller skates, and a fake nose,

480
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 2: circling Dire as he made wisecracks. The eight minute performance

481
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: ended with face pants tearing in half. It was a

482
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: kind of humiliation Faye vowed never to repeat. And again,

483
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 2: comedy is very primitive at this point. You know, we

484
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: haven't really invented the joke bra for since yet, So

485
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: it is shit like this cant s rept open.

486
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 7: I mean, look, I was argued, there's a plenty of

487
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 7: shit that's not materially better than that that you could

488
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 7: find on TikTok today.

489
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 2: Again the aforementioned well, I'm not gonna who needs to

490
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 2: shit on various cartoons on television, you know which ones

491
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:25,400
Speaker 2: I'm mentioning. So basically every credible source agrees that Fay

492
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: hated this act and fucking wants to kill himself the

493
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 2: whole time. He's doing this right, he is embarrassed about

494
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: performing with Dire for the rest of his life. He

495
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: wouldn't quite deny he'd ever worked with the guy, but

496
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: he clearly like this is a thing of deep shame

497
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 2: for him. And the primary lasting consequence of this period

498
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: working with Dire seems to be that Frank Fay develops

499
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 2: an almost pathological hatred for comedians who wear outlandish outfits

500
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: or use props, which is the only kind of comedy

501
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: at this period of time. Right, there are no comedians

502
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: who just show up in their clothes and like tell jokes.

503
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: They're all wearing costumes, they're always using props, they're nearly

504
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: always with other comedians. They're usually doing skits, right, And

505
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 2: part of the joke is, look at hit he's a

506
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 2: man and woman's clothing, you know, or he's got face

507
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: paint on, he's dressed as a black man. Right, Like,

508
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 2: those are the jokes, right, Like, it's a whole world

509
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: of carrot tops and gallaghers basically, except for they don't

510
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,880
Speaker 2: even have the courage to be carrot topper Gallagher alone.

511
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,439
Speaker 8: They've always got to have other guys on.

512
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:24,880
Speaker 6: Right.

513
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: It's just you know, that's that's it's primitive. We haven't

514
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: invented being funny.

515
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 6: I have to say. The thing that is bumming me

516
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 6: out is I do.

517
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 7: Very much sympathize with the guy in comedy who fucking

518
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 7: hates comedy.

519
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, I mean like, look, you can't

520
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: be a good comedian unless you hate yourself. We all know, yes, right,

521
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,919
Speaker 2: we all know, and everyone else and everyone else around you.

522
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: There's Bill Burr being the one exception, being the only

523
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: stand up comedian to be emotionally healthy. I think just

524
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: because he's in a he's the only stand up comedian

525
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 2: to be happily married and stay a stand up comedian, right. Yes,

526
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 2: Victoria Wilson, who is his wife, who will talk about

527
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 2: later's biographer, not his, but who is the closest he

528
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: has to a real biographer, because she's a good biographer

529
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: and he's a big part of her life. She writes

530
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 2: that he had already developed an obsession by kind of

531
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: the point that he's working with dire near the end

532
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 2: of that time, with what he considered smart comedy, right,

533
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: which is what he wants to be doing. And one

534
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 2: of his idols is a guy named Wilson Misner. Misner

535
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: was a playwright and a general performer who was also

536
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 2: a severe opium addict and an adventurer as well as

537
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: like an entertainer. He had and he's not really he's

538
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 2: not performing in front of normal audiences. But he gets

539
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,959
Speaker 2: invited to the Lambs Club, which is this like social

540
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: club and restaurant in New York, and he's like, yeah,

541
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: he writes plays and other stuff, and sometimes he'll deliver

542
00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: monologues at the Lambs Club that are like kind of funny. Right,

543
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: And this again, this isn't a standard performance. He's not

544
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 2: like selling tickets. He's just like coming up because he's

545
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 2: a guy who's known for other things, and he'll give

546
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: some like little monologues and they're kind of funny, and

547
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: Fay really likes it, right, And Fay really thinks that

548
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 2: he's smart and really together. And there's some other guys

549
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 2: doing kind of similar things where it's not quite stand

550
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: up because the purpose isn't they're there for like an event,

551
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 2: and they're just kind of like showing up to open

552
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 2: this like benefit or whatever. They're not really like a

553
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: normal performance. But he sees he gets from this the

554
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 2: ida that like this is actually kind of a good idea,

555
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: just a guy coming up and like talking to the

556
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: audience and being funny. Right right, Yeah, now these are

557
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: not weird.

558
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're they're kind of just like little speeches.

559
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 8: Yeah exactly.

560
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 2: And they're not written. They're spontaneous acts of wit, right,

561
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 2: They're just by guys who happen to be funny, and

562
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 2: Fay admires these men terribly, he said, of his idols,

563
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: and he's talking about Missner and a couple of other guys.

564
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 2: None of them there's a lot of out online quote.

565
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: They never went after anyone. But if you got in

566
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 2: their way or try to outsmart them, Lord to help you,

567
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 2: you were dead right. Because they're kind of talking with

568
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 2: the audience and stuff, and that that's really noteworthy because

569
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 2: one of the things about Fay is from an early

570
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: point in his career, he doesn't just see comedy as

571
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: a way to earn a living or a thing that's

572
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 2: meant to.

573
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 8: Make people laugh.

574
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 2: Comedy is always also for him a tool to attack

575
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 2: and damage people he doesn't like, right. That's a big

576
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: part of what draws him to comedy. And the greatest

577
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: thing he admires about Misner and some of these other

578
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: guys that he's kind of taking out his idols is

579
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: the way they can cut an enemy down to size

580
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: and do it with ease, right, The way that they can,

581
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 2: you know, tear into somebody and hurt them.

582
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 8: Right. He really is drawn to that, which.

583
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: Gives you an idea of the kind of Yeah, he

584
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 2: didn't care about punching up or down.

585
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 8: He just likes to punch.

586
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I mean that kind of guy always likes

587
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 7: punching down right, right.

588
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 2: God, So for two years he struggles to get by,

589
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 2: as you know, with with Dyer as the kind of

590
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: comedian that he's come to hate. Right where he's wearing

591
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: these pants that rip, he's like fucking roller skating around.

592
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: It's making him. He's miserable. He sees his colleagues, who

593
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: are other types of comedians, clinging to these props, which

594
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 2: he sees is like totems that symbolize a lack of

595
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: confidence in their own comedic skills. Right, if you need

596
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: to dress up, if you need another actor on stagey, like,

597
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: if you need these, these are crutches. Right, So he

598
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: doesn't immediately start taking to the stage. What he starts

599
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: doing is backstage, in between acts. He starts just talking

600
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: shit to the people around him about the bad acts

601
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: on stage, right and speaking his mind about them. And

602
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 2: he's funny and like his colleagues backstage are like laughing

603
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: as he's shit talking other performers, and he comes to like, fuck,

604
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: maybe this could work. Maybe maybe I'm just funny and

605
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 2: I could just get up and be funny in front

606
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: of an audience. Right, So he's taken from these experiences

607
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: and from these early idea idols of his this very

608
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: simple idea that a comedy performance doesn't have to have

609
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 2: pies in the face or any of this physical comedy shit.

610
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: It could be you could just have a man get

611
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: on stage wearing normal clothing and talking about how he

612
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: feels to an audience.

613
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 7: Right, because even like the court jester had like a

614
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 7: dumb hat.

615
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 8: They's got a dumb hat.

616
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: And again there's still even court jesters usually had other

617
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: people or like, you know, they're right, there's other shit

618
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: they're doing.

619
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 8: There's props.

620
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: It seems like an obvious idea that just like a

621
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: guy would get up it'd be funny. But this is

622
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: kind of revolutionary and it's a big risk, right. People

623
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 2: don't even think about this as the idea that you

624
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 2: would get up alone without just naked, basically to try

625
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: to make an audience entertained, is wild the people. In

626
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: an article for WFMU's Beware of the Blog, comedy historian

627
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: Cliff nester Off summarizes just how wild the idea of

628
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,959
Speaker 2: a stage comedian without props was at the time. Quote,

629
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: even those without gimmicks rarely appeared on stage alone. Comedians

630
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: had their punchlines set up by another person, a straight man.

631
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: To be a comedian miant, you perform without the help

632
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,719
Speaker 2: of a costume or an instrument or another guy. A

633
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 2: comedian without a prop can't click, said actor Wesley Ruggles.

634
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 2: I learned that back in the days when I pushed

635
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: props around for Charlie Chaplin great pantomimes that he is.

636
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 2: Chaplin realizes the necessity of props. So again, even like

637
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: Charlie Chaplin best in the business, right, he's fucking Charlie Chaplin.

638
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: People still know who he is today, got to be

639
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: played by Robert Downey Junior has to have props and

640
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: other people he's got. He can't keep an audience on

641
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: his own, right, And so it's ballsy what Fay's about

642
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: to do. And around nineteen fifteen or sixteen, we don't

643
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: know exactly, he makes his first performances where he is

644
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: just coming on stage wearing a professional tailored tuxedo, which

645
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: to us is not normal clothing but is pretty normal

646
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: formal wear for the time. Right for like a nightclub

647
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: where he the guy plays, he's performing. It's what like

648
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 2: the people in the audience are wearing. Right, So he's

649
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 2: dressed more or less the way a man would be dressed.

650
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: And he shows up on stage. He's got no straight man,

651
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 2: he's got no props, and he's just performing alone. He's talking,

652
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 2: and he starts performing under a stage name the nut Monologuist, right,

653
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: which means like he's the crazy mob. He's delivering nutty monologues. Right,

654
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 2: he's talking about the crazy aspects of modern society. In

655
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 2: other words, it's stand up right now, the term doesn't

656
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 2: exist yet and it doesn't get coined for him. We

657
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: don't really know exactly why we call it stand up comedy.

658
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 2: There's one plausible theory, the most plausible theory probably comes

659
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: from and this is a guy. Think Cliff Nesteroff interviewed

660
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: a dude who's very old when Cliff talked to him,

661
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 2: who had been a minor comedian. He comes a little

662
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: bit after Frankie Face. So he's a guy like around

663
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: the twenties. He's performing, right, is when this guy starts,

664
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 2: and this guy says, the term stand up comedy came

665
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: from mob lingo, right, because the first big venues the

666
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: nightclubs and the casinos, especially since like what becomes stand

667
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: up is being invented during prohibition. Largely they're all owned

668
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 2: by the mob. Right, So everyone who is an entertainer

669
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: is it to some extent working for organized crime, you know,

670
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: even if they're not involved in other ass spects of it.

671
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: And within the mob, the term stand up guy means something.

672
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 2: It means you're a man. You can be counted on. Right,

673
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: If you're a stand up guy, we like, we can,

674
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: we can count on you to keep a secret, to

675
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 2: go to prison for us, right to do, to do

676
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: whatever it whack somebody like. That's a stand up guy, right.

677
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: And a stand up comedian is a comedian you can

678
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: trust to deliver their act in the allotted time and

679
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: to not go over even by a minute, right, Because

680
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 2: most of these acts are at casinos. There's gambling, and

681
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 2: the act is there because people you know, it'll keep

682
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: people there longer. But if you go over for every

683
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: second you go over time, people aren't back at the

684
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: tables gambling.

685
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 6: Right.

686
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 2: So a stand up comedian means I can trust this

687
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: guy to hit his time. Right, He's not gonna he's

688
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: gonna do no more and no less than what we want, right.

689
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: So that's the likeliest term I've heard for a stand

690
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: up comedian. Obviously, it could just be because they're usually

691
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 2: standing there, but they're standing up, so is every perform

692
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: I think that sounds really credible. Right, Well, there's no

693
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 2: way to know for sure, but it makes sense to

694
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: me if that's the case. The term I bring this

695
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 2: up now, But the term stand up comedian, I think

696
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 2: nineteen forty six, forty seven is really the first time

697
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 2: people start using it, So it doesn't people aren't.

698
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 8: Calling it yet.

699
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 2: Right, I'm getting ahead of myself because again, Frank is

700
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 2: the only guy doing this at this point, and he's

701
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: going under the stage name the nut Monologuist.

702
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: Right.

703
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: He's talking, he's lampooning daily life and pop culture and

704
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 2: a way that we'd see is very modern, and he's

705
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: not really writing bits, right, he's kind of performing a

706
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 2: new thing every time he goes up.

707
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 8: He's really good on the fly.

708
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 2: He's just sort of like living his life and making

709
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 2: notes about shit during the day and then coming up

710
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 2: on stage and like joking about them. And he would

711
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 2: tell people that, in his opinion, the only thing you

712
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: needed to do to make this is what he says

713
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 2: about how to make good comedy quote, all anyone has

714
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 2: to do is stand in the subway station and watch people. Right,

715
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: he's inventing observational.

716
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 8: Comedy as a discipline.

717
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,320
Speaker 2: Again, people have like made oaks about daily life forever

718
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: as long as there have been people in daily life, right,

719
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 2: But he is inventing it as like a discipline, right,

720
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 2: where he's like being, no, all you gotta do is

721
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 2: go out in the world, watch people, find out what's funny,

722
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 2: find a funny way to talk about it, and then

723
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: go talk about it.

724
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 4: Right.

725
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be some sort of like you know,

726
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,840
Speaker 2: big elaborate bit with a pie, right right, right.

727
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 7: It doesn't have to be a tortured setup. No, that's so.

728
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: And in fact, it's people find regular life funny, you know,

729
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 2: like right, yeah.

730
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 7: It's also nice to learn that all you know, not

731
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 7: that I guess this wasn't clear and not that obviously

732
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 7: like crowd work in that business has not always been part.

733
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,919
Speaker 6: Of this type of act. But yeah, that's it.

734
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 7: Or just speaking exteporaneously, and even if you're not necessarily

735
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 7: the funniest, you're funnier than everyone else in the room.

736
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's all it takes. That's it.

737
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: So Victoria Wilson writes quote on stage, Fay talked about

738
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 2: things people did that were recognizable. He would talk about

739
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 2: his uncle the stringsaver who was working his way up

740
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: to rope, or his aunt Agatha a paper bag put

741
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: her aware everyone knows string savers and paper bag put

742
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: hers away. If they would remark, that's why those people

743
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 2: are funny to the rest of us. Talk about those

744
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 2: people and everyone laughs. Take the mustache fixer. You've seen

745
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 2: him twist his mustache for half an hour or so

746
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 2: at the end of that time, and it looks worse

747
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 2: than ever. But because you have seen the mustache fixtures,

748
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: you laugh when I talk about it. That's all there

749
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: is to being funny, you know.

750
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 6: Oh my god, Like he's literally.

751
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, like this is there's a direct line

752
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 2: between that and like, you know, black people walk like this,

753
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: White people walk like this. This guy like you know,

754
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 2: observational comedy, right, you know, like that's that's what we're

755
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 2: seeing here.

756
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 8: So yeah, cool.

757
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: Stuff, truly, Yeah, I mean, and it does make sense.

758
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 7: I don't you know, what I think I'm realizing I'm

759
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 7: picturing is fucking probably like a sketch from like History

760
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 7: of the World part.

761
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 6: One where it's just like a Roman doing this, right. Yeah,

762
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 6: someone had to invent this.

763
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: Yor someone had to invent that in again, you know,

764
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 2: pieces of this for forever, but this is he's inventing

765
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: it as a profession. Yeah, and this is this is

766
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 2: going to I mean, there's not really any debate among

767
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: comedy historians or the first generation of comedians that comes

768
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 2: after him that Frank Faye is the guy who started this. Right,

769
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: Every major stand up comedian from what most people know of,

770
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 2: like the first generation of stand up comedians, credits him.

771
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 2: Milton Burle says that seeing Frank Fay made him immediately

772
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 2: put away his props and completely change his performance after

773
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 2: seeing Faye for the first time. Right, Burle is like,

774
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 2: I became a stand up comedian because of seeing Frank Faye. Right,

775
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: Like he was the guy and everyone has at least

776
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: heard of Milton Burle. Right, He's famous for both being

777
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 2: one of the first stand up comedians, writing a bunch

778
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: of joke books, and having a comedically huge dick.

779
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 6: As opposed to be like Frank, I don't think that.

780
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hung like fucking god like crazy dick, crazy

781
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 2: dick hu Hung like Willem dafoely large now another one

782
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 2: of Frank Fay's biggest fans, and like a guy who

783
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: will say Frank Fay. As soon as I saw him,

784
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: I knew that's what I wanted to be. He completely

785
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 2: inspired how I did comedy? Was Bob Hope? Right, If

786
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 2: you know anything about comedy, you know what a big

787
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: deal that is? Right? If Eugenz maybe haven't heard of

788
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 2: this guy. Bob Hope was the most famous comedian on

789
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 2: earth for like fucking half a century.

790
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 6: Right.

791
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 2: He lived to be one hundred, and he spent eighty

792
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: years as a stage performer, Like he is crazy big

793
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: as a comedian. He was also a boxer at one point,

794
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 2: although weirdly enough, I didn't know this about Bob Hope.

795
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 2: Unlike Frank Faye, he was pretty good. He had a

796
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: professional record of five wins and one loss, so oh,

797
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 2: kind of surprising.

798
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 8: Bob Hope good boxer.

799
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I guess it's just a.

800
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 7: Certain type of man that is that loves about these things.

801
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: Sure, getting in the ring and proving yourself. Now, Over

802
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 2: the course of his remarkable career, Bob Hope hosted the

803
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: Oscars nineteen, which is more than anyone else ever did,

804
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: or probably ever will. He also did more than fifty

805
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 2: tours for the USO, which is the organization that has

806
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 2: performances for US military personnel around the world. He starts

807
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: in World War Two and he continues up to Desert Storm.

808
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 2: In short, he's one of the most influential and well

809
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 2: known performers in history. He has a massive impact on

810
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: stand up comedy and how it becomes a profession, and

811
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 2: the fact that he is like Frank Fay was my model,

812
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: and not only that, he's like Frank Faye was the

813
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: best stand up comedian I ever knew, you know, Like

814
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: that's how Bob Hope described him. Decades later, he called

815
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 2: Faye the most economical comedian he ever watched. He said

816
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: that he had quote complete audience control. So again, Bob Hope,

817
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: eighty years of experience in this is like the best

818
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: I ever saw on stage was Frank Fay.

819
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 6: That is genuinely yeah so wild.

820
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Like that's a bit if you know anything

821
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:53,959
Speaker 2: about comedy, that's a really big deal.

822
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah.

823
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 2: And I'm not idolized, And I think Bob Hope was a

824
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 2: great person, but like he's undeniably a massive figure in

825
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 2: comedy yeah.

826
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 6: Yeah.

827
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: Here's how Victoria Wilson describes Hope's recollections of a particularly

828
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: impactful set by Fay. Quote Hope safe one time alone

829
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,399
Speaker 2: on quote a darkened stage with the spotlight on him

830
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 2: for the longest time.

831
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 8: Faye just stood there.

832
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,399
Speaker 2: He said absolutely nothing, and he did absolutely nothing. Then

833
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: he said, I think I'll go play the piano. He

834
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 2: walked slowly across the stage to the other side. As

835
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 2: he got there, the spot which had followed him showed

836
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 2: a piano with a stool and a fellow sitting on it.

837
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: Frank just looked at it and then just as slowly

838
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 2: walked back to exactly where he had been standing. There's

839
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: somebody there. That was the whole thing set Hope. But

840
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: it was one of the funniest acts I ever saw.

841
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,359
Speaker 2: And you have to just like imagine like, yeah, it's

842
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 2: all presence, right, it's performance, it's timing, you know, it's

843
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 2: the way he does it. We've all know comedy like

844
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 2: that where it's like if you described the bit, you don't.

845
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 8: Get you see it.

846
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: It's amazing, right, Yeah, So there's an extent like there's

847
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: not videos of his early stand up performances obviously, Yeah,

848
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: I have to trust that, like all of the guys

849
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 2: who were the funniest people of that Milton Berle and

850
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 2: Bopa are all like, yeah, Frank Fay was fucking amazing,

851
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 2: So I assume he really was, Like I have no

852
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 2: reason to doubt this. Almost everyone agrees that his greatest

853
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: strength was that he has this unique understanding of how

854
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 2: to use his hands. And obviously, if you're a performer,

855
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 2: what do I do with my hands?

856
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 8: Is like the.

857
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 2: Quintessential question performer stage performers have to ask, right, like,

858
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: what the fuck do I do with my hands?

859
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 7: Yeah?

860
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 2: Right, There's this inherent awkwardness there, which is a big

861
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: part of why props and costumes had been such crutches

862
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 2: for comedic actors.

863
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 8: You gotta have something to do with.

864
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: Your hands, right, right, right, right, of course, right, like

865
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 2: even fuck it, like Robin Williams and his water bottles. Right,

866
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 2: you can see it, like people need something, you know,

867
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 2: Frank never did. George Burns, who was another great famous

868
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 2: comedian in his own right, declared to Johnny Carson that quote,

869
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 2: Frank Fay had the best hands in show business. Another

870
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: colleague later recalled, he could give you an inferiority complex,

871
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: just watching him light his cigarette, right, because just he's

872
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: just he just effortlessly funny. And it's again this kind

873
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 2: of thing I can't describe. You just have to trust

874
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:07,279
Speaker 2: that these people are not They have no reason to

875
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: lie about this, right he must have been. Now he's

876
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 2: also a dynamic performer, and it doesn't hurt that he's

877
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 2: considered handsome. Trave S d, author of the Travelanche blog

878
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: and a modern vaudeville performer and historian, describes him as

879
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 2: looking like Ralph Findes. You can just that one for yourself.

880
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,439
Speaker 2: Sophie can pull up a picture of him. Raye, Oh,

881
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: come on, fuck it.

882
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: I like, I don't know, he's handsome, get his name.

883
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm mixed about him because he's got good stances

884
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 2: on Gaza, but he's a transphobe. He's like a real

885
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 2: mixed real mixed bag there. I didn't know, so half

886
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 2: fuck you. I like his performances. He's good in everything.

887
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: He's never been bad in anything. He's an amazing actor.

888
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: But ew, yeah, well whatever, you know, how many how

889
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: many you can call him, how many how many great

890
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 2: actors don't have something about him that's like right, Like

891
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 2: I just rewatched Tropic Thunder with some friends Tom Cruise

892
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: kills and that he's also Tom Cruise.

893
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 8: What do you gotta do?

894
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

895
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,120
Speaker 2: The final stage to Frank's stage presence is his walk.

896
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 2: Frank Fay developed a trademark gait described by Travesty as

897
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: quote distinct swishy and almost effeminate. Right, he has a

898
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: lot of like lady like gestures, particularly the way he walks,

899
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: which are we might say today he's kind of like

900
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 2: acting as if he's like a stereotypical, like the way

901
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: like gay people were portrayed in like a lot of

902
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: eighties ninety Like, that's how we might we might describe

903
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 2: it today they describe it as efeminate. Then, if you've

904
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: ever seen Bob Hope walk on stage, that weird walk

905
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: he had when he's got like his golf club on,

906
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 2: Bob Hope is doing and admits that his entire walk

907
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: is based on Frank Fay. So if you've ever seen

908
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 2: a Bob Hope performance, that's what he's doing. He's doing

909
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 2: a Frank Fay.

910
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 7: I guess that's also theater, right, because it's it's like

911
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 7: it's like hippie because you're like, you know, you need

912
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 7: to be seen and the movements are.

913
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's so weird.

914
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 2: But that's also we see it now as like, well

915
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: that's a theater thing. No one else is doing this.

916
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 2: He starts this and everyone copies him, right like this

917
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: particularly like kind of affectation is so common and so

918
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 2: copied by the people who come after him that they

919
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,959
Speaker 2: get their own nickname wristwatch comedians, because he would often

920
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: like do this kind of like wristwatch, like with his

921
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,919
Speaker 2: hands or looking at his fingers that way, like checking

922
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 2: his nails. Milton Burle explained he always worked a little effeminate.

923
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: He had a hot cheur about him, but he talked

924
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 2: to his audience in a way that made them feel

925
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 2: like he was told that what he was talking about

926
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 2: could happen to them. He never did jokes in which

927
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 2: he was the butt, right, which is also interesting to me.

928
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: He does not have a sense of humor about himself,

929
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 2: right sure.

930
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 7: Oh weird, weird, weird how that threat has just carried

931
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 7: through it?

932
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right, Like that's always the biggest I would say,

933
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: like the biggest fucking like red flag of any kind

934
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,879
Speaker 2: of comedian is like can they laugh at themselves? Yeah?

935
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 2: You know, like I can you know theoretically. Obviously, there's

936
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 2: nothing funny about me. I'm a very serious, you know,

937
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: journalist who does only serious journalism. I don't just write

938
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 2: about random assholes on the internet using other people's work.

939
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 8: That would be fucked up.

940
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: Hey, so Fay was this is a huge hit. He

941
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 2: starts around like nineteen I think maybe nineteen fifteen or sixteen.

942
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: It's a little unclear to me when he starts doing

943
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 2: the nut on All August Act. But by nineteen eighteen

944
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 2: he's a major star. Right, So in a very short

945
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: period of time, he went from no one is doing

946
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: this too, this is the biggest thing in vaudeville, right,

947
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: is this specific motherfucker? He's got immediately people trying to

948
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: copy him, right, But nobody's as good as Frank Fay. Now,

949
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 2: during this period of time when vaudeville still rules entertainment,

950
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 2: we're talking nineteen eighteen, the absolute peak of success for

951
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: a performer in the vaudeville world is getting to play

952
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 2: The Palace, which is a legendary venue in New York City.

953
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: I think it still exists. I don't know if it's

954
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 2: under the same name, but the Palace is like the

955
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: that's that's that's headlining Saturday Night Live in this area, right,

956
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,719
Speaker 2: or Madison Square Garden, which I also think exists, but

957
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 2: like the same thing. If you're a comedian today, you

958
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 2: can sell at Madison Square Garden. That's the top of

959
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: stand up comedy. Basically, I don't think there's really anything

960
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: bigger than doing that. Right now, The Palace is that

961
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 2: in this era. Frank gets booked there for the first

962
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,720
Speaker 2: time in nineteen nineteen and he sells out multiple days

963
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: worth of shows. A huge act at the time might

964
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 2: expect to run for a week at the Palace, doing

965
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 2: two shows a day. So this is, by the way,

966
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: an exhausting pace, right. You talk to any modern stand

967
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 2: up doing two shows a day like you're fucking draining yourself.

968
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 2: So if you can do a week and sell out

969
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 2: a week worth of two a days at the Palace,

970
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: you're a major success. In nineteen twenty five, Phase sells

971
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 2: out ten straight weeks in a row. Eventually his longest

972
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 2: spree is going to be sixteen straight weeks. No one

973
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 2: will ever equal or exceed this, right, Like, this is

974
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 2: the best anyone ever does at this Now, when he's

975
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 2: not performing at the Palace, he starts in nineteen nineteen

976
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: doing sets, and right when he's at the Palace, he's

977
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: part of like a larger show, but like he's the

978
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 2: centerpiece of it.

979
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 8: Right.

980
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: Him doing these like ten or fifteen minute sets is

981
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 2: like and he's coming on for other stuff too, like

982
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 2: that's the reason people are there. And he starts, you know,

983
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: after he's settling out the palace doing what like a

984
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 2: long set for a comedian would be like ten or

985
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes, he starts doing these sets. There are more

986
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,439
Speaker 2: than twenty minutes at a time a half hour. Right,

987
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 2: we're closing in on what we now consider to be

988
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 2: like a normal full not like a tight five, but

989
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 2: like a full kind of like you know, Netflix special, right,

990
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 2: Like we're not there, we're not in an hour yet,

991
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 2: but like at that period of time doing a twenty

992
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 2: or thirty minute set.

993
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 8: Is like wild.

994
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 2: People aren't just aren't doing that on their own. You're

995
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: alone on stage for that much time.

996
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 8: Right.

997
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 2: So again, at first, he's kind of he's he's headlining,

998
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 2: he's the big guy, but there's multiple things going on.

999
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 2: But he starts experimenting pretty early on with something new

1000
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 2: as Cliff Off rights. It was at that venue Frank

1001
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: Fay not only became a bonafide celebrity, but also pioneered

1002
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: the idea of an MC. For several years, Vaudeville used

1003
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 2: only painted placards with the name of each act to

1004
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 2: announce who was coming to stage. Faye changed this common practice,

1005
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 2: becoming one of the first people to actually MC a show.

1006
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: His role as an introducer and extroducer was another revolutionary

1007
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: shift and stand up he wasn't just introducing but entertaining

1008
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: as he did show. If the previous act bombed, he

1009
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 2: warmed the crowd back up, and if the momentum was good,

1010
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 2: he just kept the show going. Abel Green, editor of

1011
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 2: the trade paper Variety, said Faye pioneered the MC and

1012
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: made him important and this people had done this before.

1013
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 2: He's not the first MC, but he's the first really

1014
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 2: good one because he's like he recked. He's not just

1015
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: I'm not just there to say and now coming up,

1016
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 2: I am there to notice how the audience didn't like

1017
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 2: that one, or like I need to get this guy

1018
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 2: off early, or I need to start telling some jokes

1019
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: that were not planned because that went so badly, or

1020
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 2: I can tell this next guy's kind of nervous. I

1021
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 2: want to like build him up a little bit, I know,

1022
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: to get the crowd moving so that they'll be happy,

1023
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: Like no one had really done that before. And he

1024
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 2: is the guy who kind of he creates being an

1025
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: MC really in the modern sense, like he's now invented

1026
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 2: stand up com in very short order, stand up comedy

1027
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 2: and being an MC, like those are the two things

1028
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 2: Frank Fay gets credited for making.

1029
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 6: Huh, I guess I I that, I mean, it makes sense.

1030
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 7: I guess I would have assumed there was Like again,

1031
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 7: I'm realizing all my knowledge of showbiz pre I don't

1032
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 7: know fucking ninety four is basically I guess I would

1033
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,080
Speaker 7: have assumed there was like a ring leader, like like

1034
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 7: in a circus type deal.

1035
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there'd been ring leaders in circuses in the UK.

1036
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 2: There had been performances that had guys kind of trying

1037
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: to do this. Yeah, But Frank, a big thing is

1038
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 2: like previously it had been me. The most you do

1039
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: is you'd have a guy come up to introduce everybody,

1040
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: and he'd have like a set at the beginning at

1041
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: the end. Again, the fact that he's doing inner stittle

1042
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: bits and that he's kind of paying attention to how

1043
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: is the audience doing what do I need to like change?

1044
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1045
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 8: Do I need to do?

1046
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 2: I need to like pull this guy back from the brink.

1047
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 2: And by doing this, he's making himself in a way

1048
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: that even like circus ring leaders won't. He's the center

1049
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 2: of the show. And so he's also created kind of

1050
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 2: being like that a late night host, right, like this

1051
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 2: is this is this is the proto Johnny Carson too, Right, this.

1052
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 7: Is his show and this is his you know, he's

1053
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 7: putting it on with these folks.

1054
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 2: Right, even though he's not on stage all the time

1055
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: for every act, he's all he's there in between acts, right,

1056
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: And that's that is like it's really interesting that he

1057
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 2: created both.

1058
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 8: Of those things. Right.

1059
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 2: So this point, by the mid twenties, Fay is arguably

1060
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 2: the biggest performer in New York. He's definitely the biggest

1061
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 2: performer in New York City, and he might he's probably

1062
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: one of the three or four biggest stars of any

1063
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 2: kind in the country, right at least top ten, he's

1064
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: up there.

1065
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 8: He's massive.

1066
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: First off, movies not nearly as big a thing as

1067
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 2: they're going to become very soon.

1068
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 8: There's starting.

1069
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 2: Movies are not nothing, right, obviously, the twenties is when

1070
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: film is really getting its legs under it. But this

1071
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 2: is a period of time in which you are a bit.

1072
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 2: If you're a big live performer, you could be bigger

1073
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: than the biggest movie stars. And he's up there with

1074
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 2: the biggest movie stars at least, right, And he's touring

1075
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 2: basically fifty two weeks a year, right, he's going. He's

1076
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 2: doing a lot of performing in New York, but he's

1077
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: traveling all around and everywhere he goes he sells out shows.

1078
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: He is at least equivalent to a guy like Charlie Chaplin, right,

1079
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: like very much. So you know, we don't remember him

1080
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: now as well, but at this point in time, it

1081
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 2: would be fair to say he's about at that level.

1082
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 8: And success goes to his head.

1083
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: Immediately, right, this guy becomes famous and successful as a comedian,

1084
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 2: and he becomes a crooked evil monster right away, obviously,

1085
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 2: you know.

1086
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 7: And I guess they were always kind of you know,

1087
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 7: the capacity for crooked evil monster. Yes, I mean, I

1088
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 7: guess that's the open question. Is it in us all

1089
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 7: or is it just in these dickheads that gets express?

1090
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 8: Yeah? Is it just bad?

1091
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 2: You know, it's just if you're job is to be

1092
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 2: worshiped by a crowd of people. Yeah, it's easy to

1093
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 2: whind Robert.

1094
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:09,919
Speaker 8: Kind of narcissistic.

1095
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously I've never made a mistake ever. I like,

1096
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 2: I can't actually be wrong. Everyone knows that, and you know.

1097
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 8: Who else can't be wrong?

1098
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 3: Wow, so good at your job.

1099
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: This podcast sponsored by little Miss Little Miss can't be wrong.

1100
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: That's a song, right, I don't remember which song that is? Anyway,

1101
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: We're done.

1102
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 6: That Spin Doctors?

1103
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 8: Is that the spin doctors? Who knows? Who cares? Who adds?

1104
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 8: We're back.

1105
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: I remain having never made a mistake in my entire life.

1106
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 2: All my pronunciations are right. I've never fucked up a

1107
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 2: factor or anything like that, obviously, just like Frank Fay

1108
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 2: because this is Behind the Heroes, a podcast about men

1109
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: who never do bad things. So Frank is hugely successful

1110
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 2: now and once he's a star, his first instinct is

1111
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: to use his newfound position of power and influence to mock,

1112
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 2: to ride, and belittle his less powerful colleagues because it's

1113
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 2: fun to him and he likes being cruel. One of

1114
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 2: his peers is Bert Laar, who you probably don't know

1115
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 2: my name unless you're a real film nerd. He is

1116
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 2: a at this point a comedic actor. He will become

1117
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 2: a movie star, and he is best known today because

1118
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 2: he's the Cowardly Lion and the Wizard of Oz movie. Right.

1119
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 2: It's like pretty successful guy, right, you know, like people

1120
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 2: still watch that fucker today, you know.

1121
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 8: And he's pretty popular.

1122
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 2: And well liked as a live performer at the time.

1123
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 2: But he's the kind of comedian who wears silly costumes

1124
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: as part of his act, and so Fay fucking hates him.

1125
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 2: Both men often performed in the same shows, and when

1126
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: passing Laar and the Wings, Fay developed to have it

1127
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 2: of asking, well, well, well, what's the low comic up

1128
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 2: to today?

1129
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 3: And he did this.

1130
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: He would do this right as Lara was going upstage,

1131
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 2: and his goal was to make him upset and sabotage

1132
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 2: his act, right. He he doesn't just I mentioned how

1133
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 2: he'll like try to set people up for success or

1134
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:06,600
Speaker 2: like bring people back. He also will try to fuck

1135
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 2: people over if he.

1136
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 8: Doesn't like them, right.

1137
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 6: He knows how to work performers' confidences.

1138
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: Right, And some of it is like he knows that

1139
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 2: if he makes someone perform badly, then he can come

1140
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:17,359
Speaker 2: in and save it.

1141
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 8: And look better. Right.

1142
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 2: He's a big fan of undermining his fellow performers, and

1143
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 2: one thing he likes about him seeing is that it

1144
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,240
Speaker 2: provides him with subtle opportunities to insult people he doesn't

1145
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 2: like and destroy their careers when they're trying to get

1146
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 2: them off the ground. Victoria Wilson explains quote, he would

1147
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 2: simply introduce the act by saying, with a slight smile

1148
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 2: and a soft voice, the next gentleman is very very popular.

1149
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 2: They say that he's very funny. Then he would raise

1150
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: an eyebrow. The act didn't have a chance with the audience.

1151
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 8: Right.

1152
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 2: He's just so good at this that he can just

1153
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 2: destroy your career with like raising an eyebrow. Like I mean, yeah,

1154
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 2: he just does this for fun. If he gets bad

1155
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 2: vibes from somebody, he'll just ruin them as a bit

1156
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 2: to laugh at their failure. Fay develops a reputation as

1157
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 2: a man who likes watching people suffer, and when he

1158
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 2: destroys someone's career on stage, he'll do it with a

1159
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: smile on his face. I probably don't need to say this,

1160
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 2: but he has particularly abusive to his female colleagues. Obviously

1161
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: a man in stand up comedy being abusive to women. Wow,

1162
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 2: he's another pioneer. Luis Kay's got this guy's photo and

1163
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 2: a lock it over his heart. One performance he put

1164
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 2: together during his vaudeville period, which may have been the

1165
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 2: first he may have also mad like this performance he

1166
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 2: does maybe the first stooge act ever involved him telling

1167
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 2: the audience that he needed volunteers to do a card trick,

1168
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 2: and then he'd bring up a trio of his performers

1169
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 2: who were hidden amongst the audience, including volunteers. And one

1170
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 2: of those performers was a woman who worked for him

1171
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 2: named Patsy Kelly. So he's having them up, come up

1172
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 2: to do card tricks to them, right, And these ringers

1173
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 2: that he brings up, they're all dressed like shit. They

1174
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 2: look like they haven't like showered, they're in bad clothes.

1175
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 2: They're meant to look like yokels, right, so that fake

1176
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 2: can make fun of them as he's like walking them

1177
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 2: through these card tricks, right, And he is especially cruel

1178
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 2: to Kelly. One of the things he would do when

1179
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 2: she would come to stage, she'd ask her, good heavens,

1180
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: where have you been? And he'd have her respond to

1181
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 2: the beauty parlor so he could say I can see

1182
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 2: they didn't wait on you, you know, like just to

1183
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 2: shit on her appearance after making her dress up badly,

1184
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 2: like he's making her do these lines. He really likes

1185
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 2: insulting her appearance on stage. Kelly and her two colleagues

1186
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 2: made up FaZe Stock Company. They were the pinch hitters

1187
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 2: that he could bring on for any sketcher bit that

1188
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 2: he needed someone else for. And she recalls his tutelages

1189
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: being valuable, like she learns a lot from him, while

1190
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 2: also admitting that he could be cruel, As Wilson recounts,

1191
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,879
Speaker 2: he didn't want her to wear makeup. He would yell

1192
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: at her on stage. He fired her weekly. Fay never

1193
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: had a script and would just spring lines on me.

1194
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 8: She said.

1195
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 2: He might start talking about anything from Paris to presidents.

1196
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: It always seemed to me that I was standing on

1197
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 2: the stage with my hand out waiting for my cue

1198
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 2: to drop. I lived with my chin because my knees

1199
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: were helpless. So, like, you don't know what to expect

1200
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 2: with him, but he's always just going to be mean

1201
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 2: and insult your appearance if you're like he just he

1202
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: really gets off on the cruelty thing he loves to

1203
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:09,319
Speaker 2: punch down.

1204
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 7: Now, yeah, I mean it is also I mean this

1205
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 7: is basically an improv troop also right right?

1206
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 2: Oh god, So Faye helps to pioneer being a huge

1207
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 2: asshole celebrity too. During one performance at the Orpheum in Brooklyn,

1208
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 2: shortly after his career gets big, he does like he's

1209
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,760
Speaker 2: like four minutes late to the show because he's fixing

1210
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: his tie in the green room and he can't get

1211
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 2: it right, and so the stage manager runs back and like,

1212
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 2: the audience is like really pissed off, like what the fuck,

1213
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 2: when are you going to get on? You have to

1214
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: hit your mark right, and he's like the audience is

1215
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: getting frustrated, and Face snaps back let them wait, And

1216
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 2: this does not go over well. The booking office cancels

1217
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: the rest of his scheduled performances and finds him one

1218
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 2: hundred dollars, but Fate doesn't give a shit. He is

1219
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: in demand everywhere and he has completely lost his mind

1220
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 2: as a result of that and the sheer amount of

1221
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: money flying him from all sides. At the height of

1222
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 2: his days doing the Palace, he's taking home eighteen thousand

1223
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: dollars a week in the twenties. Oh my god, Like,

1224
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 2: that's that's a crazy amount of money. That's like three

1225
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 2: hundred grand a week right when he's performing at the Palace.

1226
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 2: So he starts to become a narcissist before each if

1227
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: he hadn't been one previously, he gets more before each perform.

1228
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 6: It gets to come out freely right.

1229
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 2: Like there's nothing holding it back anymore. Before each performance,

1230
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: he would look into the mirror in his dressing room

1231
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 2: and ask loudly who do I love? Before answering me,

1232
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 2: It's just he's the He's just the most that guy

1233
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 2: he could possibly be.

1234
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 6: I mean, you guys, didn't hear Robert's pre show warm up?

1235
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 6: But you know who? Do I hate?

1236
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 7: Me?

1237
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: So he quickly drops the name he'd started his act under,

1238
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: the Monologust and starts demanding people call him one of

1239
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 2: several nicknames. And all of these are nicknames he's given himself.

1240
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 2: Nobody gives themselves cool nicknames. And his nicknames are the

1241
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 2: Great Phasey, the King of Vaudeville, or just the King,

1242
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 2: the Great Fay and Broadway's favorite Son. And he makes

1243
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: people call him that and introduce him that way.

1244
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 4: There's only one king, and his name is Lebron James.

1245
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 2: You're right, You're right, Lebron James, who sung some of

1246
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,440
Speaker 2: you know, my favorite rock and roll songs. Obviously suspicious minds.

1247
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 2: Just a great musician, Lebron James. Not as good at

1248
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 2: dunking as Elvis Presley, but you know, a fine, fine performer.

1249
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 4: So it's good we're not filming right now.

1250
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 8: Now.

1251
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: The thing about like, it's obvious to everyone that he

1252
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: has a massive ego and that these are names he's

1253
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: given himself, but audiences love it because his ego works

1254
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 2: with the character he's performing. His character is this sarcastic,

1255
00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 2: mocking figure who's smarter than everyone and above it all right,

1256
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 2: So it does kind of fit with who he's performing as.

1257
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 2: It's just that the people don't necessarily realize that's also

1258
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: the real Frank. And the real Frank is not just

1259
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 2: a narcissist and not just a bully, but racist as fuck.

1260
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: Particularly I assume he was racist against black people, but

1261
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: we don't really get a lot about I don't really

1262
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 2: get much of that in the history. He hates Jewish people.

1263
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:29,400
Speaker 2: He is the anti Semites, anti Semite, right, Milton Burrell,

1264
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 2: obviously I just said, is a great foundational American comic.

1265
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 2: He's up there with Bob Hope in terms of guys

1266
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 2: who influenced the development of the vocation. And he is

1267
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 2: an obsessive fan of Frank. Fay patterns his whole early

1268
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 2: career in Frank's image, and Frank gets really angry about

1269
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 2: this because Milton Burle is Jewish. Now, the other thing

1270
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 2: is that Frank is really scared about having his act plagiarized, right,

1271
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: And it is a common fear of the business then

1272
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 2: and today, and as a result, because comedians don't want

1273
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 2: to get plagiarized, it's considered bad form to watch a

1274
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: call league from the wings before going on yourself.

1275
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 8: Right.

1276
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: People do this all the time, but it's considered bad

1277
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: form by some performers, and Faye is one of them.

1278
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: And so one night, while performing, Fay catches Burle watching,

1279
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 2: and so he calls to a stage hand and tells

1280
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 2: him get that little jew bastard out of the wings.

1281
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,400
Speaker 2: So this happens a couple of times, you know, they're

1282
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,600
Speaker 2: on at the same shows, and Fay gets angry and

1283
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 2: angrier at Burl, and eventually Fay shouts directly at Burle

1284
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 2: using the k slur for Jewish people, like really goes

1285
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 2: to like very racist to Milton Burle, right, basically, stop

1286
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 2: stealing from me, you slur now Burle again admires Fay tremendously.

1287
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 2: He's patterned his career off of this man, but he's

1288
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 2: not going to take this racism lying down. Milton Burrell

1289
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 2: later related after he calls Fay calls me slair. I

1290
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 2: waited until he had finished for the night.

1291
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 8: I was ready for him.

1292
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 2: As he cut around behind some flats on his way

1293
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 2: to the dressing room, I had picked up a stage brace.

1294
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: They're made of wooden metal and they used to hold

1295
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 2: the scenery together. And as he went by me, I

1296
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:04,920
Speaker 2: reached out and spun him around. Before he knew it

1297
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 2: was happening, I hit him right across his face with

1298
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 2: the brace. It ripped his nose apart. He has to

1299
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 2: go to the hospital. Milton Burle hits him with a

1300
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:15,960
Speaker 2: board with metal on it in the face.

1301
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 3: Also, it's it's like kind of.

1302
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 7: Amazing to be like, I'm doing this because I am,

1303
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,439
Speaker 7: on some level still such a big fan.

1304
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a huge fan, but I am going to

1305
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 2: beat you in the face with a board.

1306
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, this is like divorcing the artists from the art

1307
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 7: harder than anyone's ever done.

1308
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,919
Speaker 8: And honestly makes me like Milton Burle a lot more.

1309
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,840
Speaker 2: I didn't have an opinion on him before this, but

1310
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 2: that's pretty cool.

1311
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 8: Now.

1312
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 2: Fay is not just a bigot. He is the kind

1313
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:52,480
Speaker 2: of biggot who feels no compunction against dropping slurs in public.

1314
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 2: He loves droppings in public at social events.

1315
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,520
Speaker 7: I do feel like it's probably worth like being like,

1316
01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 7: it's also like what what like.

1317
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 6: When would this be like the twenties the.

1318
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 8: Third Yeah, we're in the like the mid twenties.

1319
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:09,240
Speaker 6: So he's not like super unique.

1320
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 8: No no, no, no, no, no.

1321
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 7: If anything, even the stuff that you've quoted probably soft

1322
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 7: all things, because I.

1323
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 2: Say that, let's wait, let's let's hold on call, I

1324
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 2: gets soft for the period, right. Comedian Milt joseph Berg,

1325
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:26,920
Speaker 2: who you might guess is a Jewish man, one of

1326
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 2: Frank's contemporaries, later claimed quote Fay referred to other comedians

1327
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 2: as jew bastards, and this regularly, Like so this is

1328
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 2: like a common thing to him. He says this socially

1329
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: at like parties and stuff. Yeah, this regularly leads to

1330
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 2: fist fights. In fact, one of the things Faye is

1331
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 2: most known for is getting into fights all the time

1332
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 2: with Jewish performers because he calls them slurs. Right now,

1333
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 2: let's be fair to Fay. He gets into fist fights

1334
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 2: with a lot of people. It's not just Jewish performers.

1335
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 2: He loves punching people.

1336
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 7: And you know what, to be even more fair, we

1337
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,000
Speaker 7: already know even he knows he's not a good.

1338
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 2: Box Even he knows he's not a good boxer. Now,

1339
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 2: Fay is also a chainsmoker. He lights up regularly throughout

1340
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 2: his act. He's like a proto Dennis Leary in that

1341
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 2: or you know, Dennis Lee is stealing from fucking u

1342
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 2: Bill Hicks.

1343
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 8: But he's one of these guys. Right.

1344
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 2: So once he gets rich and famous, he buys a

1345
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,320
Speaker 2: gold cigarette case which he would bring on stage so

1346
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 2: everyone could see it when he lights up. And during

1347
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 2: one performance when he's backstage, there's a no smoking sign

1348
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 2: because of a fire codes because like it's a dangerous

1349
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 2: building to have anything light in, and they don't want

1350
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 2: to kill everyone in the venue because it's the fucking

1351
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,680
Speaker 2: twenties and it's such a threat that the venue had

1352
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:43,320
Speaker 2: hired a firefighter to make sure people follow the rules.

1353
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: And the firefighter sees Frank light up, and the firefighter's like,

1354
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 2: hey man, and calls him the f slur right, you know,

1355
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 2: just because it's the twenties, and Frank punches him in

1356
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 2: the face, like this firefighter. But my favorite punch related

1357
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 2: Frank face story happened on stage during a performance, and

1358
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:06,200
Speaker 2: this is such a good story to end this episode on.

1359
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 2: One of Frank's very few friends was Bert Wheeler, and

1360
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,480
Speaker 2: Wheeler was one half of a popular comedic duo called

1361
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 2: Wheeler and Woolsey. Now Bert admired Faye and described it

1362
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:17,480
Speaker 2: as having the fastest mind in the business, but he

1363
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 2: also knew that his friend had a cruel side and

1364
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 2: that whenever Fay brought a performer on stage with him,

1365
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 2: it was to mock them. And so Wheeler doesn't want

1366
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 2: to be on stage with his friend necessarily because he

1367
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,720
Speaker 2: knows he's going to get insulted really badly. So one

1368
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 2: night Wheeler gets the feeling that Fay is going to

1369
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 2: bring him on stage to like do this and is like,

1370
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 2: he begs his friend. He's like, hey man, don't bring

1371
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 2: me up after I finish my act. I just I

1372
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 2: really don't need this today, right, Like I just I

1373
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:45,640
Speaker 2: don't want to be laughed at in the way that

1374
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to be laughed at if you bring me

1375
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 2: on stage. Victoria Wilson describes what happens next. Fay honored

1376
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 2: Wheeler's plea until one important performance a matinee when the

1377
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 2: talent bookers were in the audience with stopwatches in hand

1378
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 2: to time the laughs. Wheeler finished his act to great

1379
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:02,120
Speaker 2: applause and left the stage. Fay came on as he

1380
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 2: had throughout the show, and called Wheeler back on stage.

1381
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 2: For whatever reason, Faye began to talk to the audience

1382
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 2: at Wheeler's expense. Faye was calm controlled. He's spoke in

1383
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 2: his soft, easy, slow delivery with his dead pan stare.

1384
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,920
Speaker 2: Wheeler's still on the stage, unable to think of anything

1385
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 2: that he could say to equal her top fase sarcasm. Finally,

1386
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 2: Wheeler said, Frank, you're a very funny man, but I

1387
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 2: predict I'm going to get the biggest laugh ever heard

1388
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 2: at the palace. Fay said, oh, really, Bert, how are

1389
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 2: you going to do that? Wheeler pulled back and hit

1390
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 2: Faye in the face. The audience laughed. Think this was

1391
01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 2: part of the act. That's a pretty good joke I listen.

1392
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 7: Especially given who the stand ups are these days, I

1393
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 7: would love to see more of this.

1394
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 2: There's a lot of stand up comedians I want to

1395
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,480
Speaker 2: get to see hit on the face in the face on stage. Right. Yeah, So,

1396
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 2: I think at this point we've established that this guy's

1397
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 2: both innovative and groundbreaking and also an abusive dick and

1398
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 2: a racist. But Frank Fay is about to be so

1399
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,479
Speaker 2: much more. In part two, we're going to talk about

1400
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,000
Speaker 2: his marriage to his wife, a woman you may know,

1401
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,400
Speaker 2: Barbara Stanwick, and these two are going to embark on

1402
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 2: a relationship so abusive and poisonous that it would become

1403
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 2: a piece of Hollywood history. This is like the archetypal, toxic,

1404
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 2: abusive Hollywood relationship, Frank Fay and Barbara Stanwick. The movie

1405
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 2: A Star Is Born is based off of their abusive relationship. Right,

1406
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 2: so that's going to be cool.

1407
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 6: Can't wait, can't wait, can't wait, can't wait? What a

1408
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:32,080
Speaker 6: table set?

1409
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 2: How you feeling, Andrew T I feel I am as

1410
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 2: as it happens on behind the bastards, I am fighting

1411
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 2: myself at least in part one, more sympathetic in general

1412
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 2: than I thought I was going to be.

1413
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 7: And typically that is I guess how biographies work. No

1414
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,520
Speaker 7: one starts out as an evil child, so I get it.

1415
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 2: Well, and it's like he's a racist and he's abusive

1416
01:07:56,960 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 2: so far, but he hasn't done this is not behind

1417
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,440
Speaker 2: the bastard's level stuff quite yet?

1418
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:04,400
Speaker 3: Right like this is like, this is honestly feels he's.

1419
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 8: Just kind of an asshole. I wouldn't just do an

1420
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:07,800
Speaker 8: episode and a guy who's a dick.

1421
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 7: He doesn't even seem that transgressive. Yeah, for like the

1422
01:08:11,720 --> 01:08:15,360
Speaker 7: twe this is. Yeah, he wouldn't be canceled today.

1423
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, right like right like today he would be a

1424
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,280
Speaker 2: popular right wing comedian who we would be annoyed by.

1425
01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:21,639
Speaker 8: But I would not do an.

1426
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 2: Episode on Yes, we're getting to the stuff that's like

1427
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 2: behind the bastards worthy, right, can't wait? But before we

1428
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 2: get to that, why don't we get to your pluckables?

1429
01:08:35,320 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 6: Oh? I don't know, still doing Yo? Is this racist?

1430
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 7: We have a premium show called yokh we Live. I

1431
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:46,400
Speaker 7: don't know that's it. I'm around Hey Andrew on places.

1432
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 2: He all right, everybody, this has been behind the bastards.

1433
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 2: I've been Robert Evans come back in Part two, where

1434
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 2: we are going to hear some real fucked up shit

1435
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:57,240
Speaker 2: about a guy who sucked.

1436
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1437
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,960
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1438
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 1: dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1439
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1440
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:17,560
Speaker 4: Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes

1441
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 4: every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot

1442
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 4: com slash at Behind the Bastards