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Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure

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Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to the Buck Sexton Show. We have

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Speaker 2: with us the one and only Chris Rufo for this one.

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Speaker 2: He's got a new book out, America's Cultural Revolution, which

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about here today on the program.

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Speaker 2: Mister Rufo, always good to see you. Thanks for being here.

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Speaker 1: It's great to be with you.

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Speaker 2: So talk to me, my friend. The book, what do

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Speaker 2: you dive into? What do we need to know?

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Speaker 1: So? America's Culture Revolution is the story of the radical

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Speaker 1: lefts fifty year long march of the institutions. I look

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Speaker 1: at the key thinkers, the key ideologies, the key social movements,

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Speaker 1: and trace their slow institutional capture over the course of

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Speaker 1: the late twentieth century and then finally exploding into public

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Speaker 1: consciousness with the summer of twenty twenty, the Summer of

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Speaker 1: George Floyd. And the book seeks to answer a simple question,

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Speaker 1: how did our institutions suddenly seem to have been deranged

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Speaker 1: by critical race theory and other ideologies so completely and

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Speaker 1: so quickly? And I try to give a very comprehensive

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Speaker 1: answer to that question in the pages of this book.

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Speaker 2: Well, tell me this, where was the right during all

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Speaker 2: of this?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: How are we so asleep that somehow we managed to

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Speaker 2: allow Is it because we believed in the the always

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Speaker 2: tough to find but fun to talk about for some people,

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Speaker 2: neutral space? Like what happened here? How'd we find ourselves

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Speaker 2: handing over the institutions to the commis all over the place?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I didn't really a two part problem, And you

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Speaker 1: identify the first part exactly right. The radical left was

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Speaker 1: able to hijack and exploit some of the vulnerabilities in

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Speaker 1: the small l liberal system, and the right had this

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Speaker 1: notion that institutions could be neutral, that all voices could proliferate.

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Speaker 1: But we know now in hindsight that institutions can not

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Speaker 1: be neutral, and that the radical left has no interest

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Speaker 1: in pluralism or tolerance or inclusivity in the real sense

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Speaker 1: of the word. They wanted to use the institutions and

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Speaker 1: force their ideology on others. But the second element, and

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Speaker 1: this is something I think you'll be particularly interested in,

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Speaker 1: is that the right essentially fell asleep after the end

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Speaker 1: of the Cold War. Many of our leading intellectuals and

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Speaker 1: political figures decided that, you know, we had defeated the

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Speaker 1: communists and that ideology would never rise again. It had

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Speaker 1: been totally invalidated by the process of history. We had

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Speaker 1: reached the end of history in a sense. But the

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Speaker 1: left wing radicals did not stop at the fall of

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Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. It didn't deter them, it didn't force

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Speaker 1: them to abandon their ideology. They just changed it and

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Speaker 1: adapted it and kept working, and unfortunately the right kind

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Speaker 1: of seeded responsibility and really stopped standing guard on the

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Speaker 1: institutions until it was too late, until they discovered that

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Speaker 1: they had lost control of those institutions altogether.

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Speaker 2: Did it really start with the universities in terms of

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Speaker 2: the infiltration. Was that the first place that it really

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Speaker 2: took hold or was it you know, different components of journalism,

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Speaker 2: the think tanks. Where did the radical left in a

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Speaker 2: post World War II America establish its first footholds?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're spot on, And it really did begin in

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Speaker 1: the universities in the late nineteen sixties. And they write

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Speaker 1: about this explicitly and auto the material that I cover

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Speaker 1: in the book. You know, they said that the proletariat

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Speaker 1: working class revolution was not going to happen. It was

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Speaker 1: impossible in the West, and particularly impossible in the United States,

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Speaker 1: where most working people were actually quite happy with their

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Speaker 1: standard of living and the country that they were living in.

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Speaker 1: So they said, the one place where we think that

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Speaker 1: we have the base of power, what they called the

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Speaker 1: initial revolutionary institution, was the university campus, and so they

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Speaker 1: decided to start there and then slowly worked their way

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Speaker 1: out into media, K through twelve schools, government bureaucracies HR program,

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Speaker 1: and then you know so called racial sensitivity training, which

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Speaker 1: became DEI training. And this was really a remarkably effective strategy.

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Speaker 1: They started very small, with a very small group of people,

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Speaker 1: but they were able to spread their influence throughout the

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Speaker 1: institutions in a really sophisticated way that was largely undetected

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Speaker 1: by the right for far too long.

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Speaker 2: Now, when you talk about cultural revolution, obviously people think

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Speaker 2: of the Maoist cultural revolution in China. Do you see

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Speaker 2: some connective ideological tissue between the two in a way

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Speaker 2: that manifested itself in you know, the actual processes of

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Speaker 2: taking over I mean, you know, what kind of comparisons

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Speaker 2: The title obviously evokes the comparison, So what kind of

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Speaker 2: comparisons do you actually make in the book?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, I make my own compari prisons,

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Speaker 1: of course, but really you don't even have to have

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Speaker 1: to trust my judgment. The leading left wing intellectuals of

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Speaker 1: the time made the comparison explicitly. They elaborated a theory

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Speaker 1: of cultural revolution, and they said, we have to learn

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Speaker 1: from what's happening in China, what's happening in the African

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Speaker 1: colonial liberation movement, what's happening in all of these other places.

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Speaker 1: We have to have a cultural revolution of the same

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Speaker 1: kind in the West. And then also the key concept,

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Speaker 1: really the heart of the story of the book is

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Speaker 1: their so called long March through the institutions. And this

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Speaker 1: is what they called it way back in the early

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, and it was a direct illusion to then.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a chairman then, but he was a general

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Speaker 1: in the Chinese Communist Army, and they had this long

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Speaker 1: march through China, actually a long strategic retreat, and then

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Speaker 1: they were able to establish dominance once they had become

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Speaker 1: secure and start the communist revolution, the rule of imunist

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Speaker 1: revolution in China. And so they adapted not only the language,

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Speaker 1: not only the philosophy, not only the basic Marxist Leninist

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Speaker 1: revolutionary theory, but they but they really adapted a lot

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Speaker 1: of the strategies and tactics, sometimes explicitly, sometimes implicitly. But

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Speaker 1: if you look at the ferment that was happening around

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Speaker 1: the world, it was also happening in our country.

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Speaker 2: Speaking to Chris Rufo here, Chris, hold the book up again,

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Speaker 2: so I can tell everybody, if you, for those who

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Speaker 2: are watching America's cultural revolution, how the radical left conquered everything.

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Speaker 2: And if you're not watching because you're not subscribed to

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Speaker 2: the YouTube channel yet, go to YouTube dot com slash

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Speaker 2: buck Sexton and obviously you can go get Chris's book

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Speaker 2: wherever fine books are sold. I want to ask you,

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Speaker 2: Chris in a second, about how the counter revolution is going,

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Speaker 2: because I'm sure that's a big part of what you're

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Speaker 2: writing about as well. You've got, you know, the bud

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Speaker 2: Light boycott, the success of the Sound of Freedom. Recently,

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Speaker 2: some of the professional sports leagues and teams feeling like

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Speaker 2: they can't get away with quite the same amount of

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Speaker 2: left wing stuff. So we'll get to that in a second.

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Speaker 2: two T dot org. Chris, how are we dealing with

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Speaker 2: the counter revolution against the left wing lunatics who have

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Speaker 2: taken over all of our institutions? Or at least most

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's good news and bad news, and I always

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Speaker 1: like to start with the bad news. The bad news

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Speaker 1: is that they've had a fifty year head start, they're

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Speaker 1: in a position of entrenched institutional power. But the good

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Speaker 1: news is that over the last really two years, two

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Speaker 1: and a half years now, the right has started to

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Speaker 1: awaken to successful strategies of counter revolution. And so I

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Speaker 1: think it began with the fight against CRT in late

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, It continued in the fight for control of

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Speaker 1: local school boards in twenty twenty one, it moved to

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Speaker 1: gender ideology in twenty twenty two, and now we find

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Speaker 1: ourselves pioneering successful strategies to fight that woke capital or

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Speaker 1: kind of left wing culture war from America's largest companies.

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Speaker 1: And so this is a period of of learning, of study,

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Speaker 1: of experimentation, of creating prototypes and new strategies. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've been involved in many of these campaigns.

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Speaker 1: I've learned a lot, and I'm very optimistic at heart

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Speaker 1: because the story that we have to tell, the tactics

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Speaker 1: that we have at our disposal, the political opportunities that

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Speaker 1: are on the horizon are really only limited by our

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Speaker 1: own creativity and our own willingness to fight. And as

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Speaker 1: we become more creative, as we have more appetite for

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Speaker 1: actually going out and fighting these fights, I think we're

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Speaker 1: going to see success after success. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: last chapter in the book is devoted to figuring out

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Speaker 1: exactly how to do that, outlining some laying out rather

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Speaker 1: some strategies for the right to achieve this counter revolution

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Speaker 1: to come.

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Speaker 2: Are you ever surprised? I mean, people who are in

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Speaker 2: the movement on the right are familiar with a lot

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Speaker 2: of your work that involves showing the public the extent

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Speaker 2: and the extreme nature of some of the left wing

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Speaker 2: and doctrination that's happening in institutions, whether it's local government

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Speaker 2: bureaucracies or in Disney or wherever. Are you ever at

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Speaker 2: this point those surprised at how insistent they are at

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Speaker 2: defending the most extreme stuff. And one thing that has

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Speaker 2: been I think a surprise to a lot of folks

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Speaker 2: who are just paying attention to what's going on in

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Speaker 2: the news is that they're not willing to take it

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Speaker 2: seems a tactical retreat on say, drag Queen Story Hour

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Speaker 2: for kids. Instead, they either say it's not happening, or

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Speaker 2: they say it is happening and it's a good thing,

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Speaker 2: and that just feels.

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Speaker 1: Like you're transphobic for for even mentioning it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I mean, did do you ever

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Speaker 2: get surprised when you just see how basically how wacko

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Speaker 2: the left has actually gotten.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, although I think I would, I would, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that that is kind of a unitary or universal narrative.

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Speaker 1: And actually there's a big difference right now and a

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Speaker 1: kind of a lag Maybe it's just a lagging indicator.

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Speaker 1: But look, I mean, we won the fight on critical

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Speaker 1: race theory. We defined it, we attacked it, we changed

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Speaker 1: public opinion about it. The left really stopped defending it,

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Speaker 1: and we've won concrete political victories, legislative victories, school board victories.

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Speaker 1: And I think that you find even the kind of

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Speaker 1: Robin DiAngelo's and Ibram Kendy's and BLM leaders having lost

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Speaker 1: all credibility, having really been exposed for pushing a false ideology.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the left in some sense through

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Speaker 1: in the towel in some ways on these issues on

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Speaker 1: gender and sexuality. That hasn't happened yet, and I'm still

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Speaker 1: trying to really piece together why. But what I do

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Speaker 1: know is just kind of a basic you know, what's

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Speaker 1: the status quo right now is that they have doubled down,

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Speaker 1: tripled down, quadrupled down on these things. Drag Queen's Story hour,

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Speaker 1: you know, porn, pornography in schools, all of these various

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Speaker 1: expressions of you know, queer theory and ideology, and then

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Speaker 1: also the kind of performance of these ideologies. I think,

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, they're they're more committed to this than

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Speaker 1: on CRT, for example, they're more dogged in the defense,

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Speaker 1: and then they are willing to double down to a

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Speaker 1: greater degree. And I don't know if it's because this

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Speaker 1: campaign to expose this started a year later than CRT,

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Speaker 1: but but something is happening there that I think we'll

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Speaker 1: start to understand better in the coming months and years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that you put it, you

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Speaker 2: added a context to it, because on those other issues,

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Speaker 2: you're right, there have been retreats that have been made right.

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Speaker 2: And that's I think that's why the gender issue sticks

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Speaker 2: out so much in my mind, because even on CRT,

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Speaker 2: on some of the more extreme stuff, they would say,

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Speaker 2: oh well that's not I mean, you were right on

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Speaker 2: the forefront of this. That's not CRT, they would say,

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Speaker 2: think you know, they were playing games around the debate

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Speaker 2: without engaging. But you will come across people on the

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Speaker 2: gender debate who say, no, for a fifty year old

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Speaker 2: man to be dressed as a woman wearing a thong

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Speaker 2: and in fishnet tights, you know, jiggling his like butt

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Speaker 2: in front of families with children is somehow one of

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Speaker 2: the blessings of liberty. I mean, this is something that

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Speaker 2: we see, you know that they stick with this, and

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Speaker 2: I think that it's interesting because it's it's definitely a

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Speaker 2: political live it should be a political liability for them.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask you more though, about what you

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Speaker 2: think is going to happen to DEI and just the

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Speaker 2: CRT critical race theory, DEI diversity, equity inclusion, the racial

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Speaker 2: entitlement state in the aftermath of the Supreme Court decision

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Speaker 2: that we just saw on college admission specifically. So let's

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Speaker 2: amazing specials. All right, Chris, what do you think happens

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Speaker 2: to the diversity, equity and inclusion bureaucracy now that there's

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Speaker 2: the very real threat, certainly for college campuses. You know,

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Speaker 2: universities of legal action if they discriminated on the basis

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Speaker 2: of gender and race. But some of these programs in

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Speaker 2: the corporate world seem like they're perhaps in jeopardy or

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Speaker 2: are they just going to continue on? How do you

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Speaker 2: see that playing out?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, this has actually been my big political project

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Speaker 1: for this year. I started by putting out model legislation

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Speaker 1: with Manhattan Institute providing for state legislators to abolish the

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Speaker 1: DEI bureaucracy and all of their public universities. I then

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Speaker 1: did an investigative reporting campaign in Florida and Texas exposing

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Speaker 1: some of these really ideological and abusive DEI programs and

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Speaker 1: state universities. And then I worked with Governor DeSantis and

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Speaker 1: legislators in Texas to help advocate for legislation that passed

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Speaker 1: in both states to actually just abolish all of these

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Speaker 1: programs altogether. And so I'm happy to say that in

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Speaker 1: Florida and Texas those DEI programs are have been abolished legislatively.

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Speaker 1: Are they still going to try to kind of hide

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Speaker 1: them and sneak them and do them around the edges,

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Speaker 1: change the names. Yeah, of course, and we have to

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Speaker 1: be vigilant. But what we've done is set the precedent

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Speaker 1: that these programs are not only unnecessary, but they're actually

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Speaker 1: counterproductive to the mission of universities, schools, corporations, all of

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Speaker 1: the various domains where they've taken hold. And we've seen

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Speaker 1: even in the corporate setting, as the economy has tightened,

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Speaker 1: as the kind of hysteria following the death of George

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Speaker 1: Floyd has receded, companies are quietly shedding many of their

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Speaker 1: DEI jobs, including very lefty companies in Silicon Valley and

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Speaker 1: other places in California have been quietly firing reams of

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Speaker 1: their DEI employees because they're finding out that these people

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Speaker 1: only create problems. They don't offer any solutions. They're kind

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Speaker 1: of a waste of head count.

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Speaker 2: The productivity of the night. I mean, that's there's no

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Speaker 2: value in this. It just is ideological and rain on

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Speaker 2: company resources.

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Speaker 1: That's yeah, exactly. They offer actually negative value. Right every

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Speaker 1: dollar you pay for DEI, you know, you losed two dollars,

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Speaker 1: so it's a it's not a good deal. And and

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Speaker 1: so I think we're seeing a really big shift, and

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Speaker 1: I'd like to accelerate that shift. And I'd like to

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Speaker 1: see especially policymakers starting to just say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: we want to have strict color blind equality. We're going

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Speaker 1: to treat everyone equally as an individual, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to have no left wing, highly ideological DEI departments in

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Speaker 1: any of our state institutions. It's not necessary, it's not good,

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Speaker 1: and it's not something that we're going to do. And

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Speaker 1: you know, two years ago, three years ago, five years ago,

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Speaker 1: was that feasible. I don't think so. But we've built

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Speaker 1: the case over over a few years, starting with CRT,

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Speaker 1: and we're going after it relentlessly. We've now abolished it

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Speaker 1: in two of the largest red states, and I think

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Speaker 1: that when legislatures are back in session in other states,

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Speaker 1: we're going to see a remarkable domino effect to start

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Speaker 1: to wipe out some of these DEI departments for good.

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Speaker 2: Now, places like Disney, some of these big companies. We

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Speaker 2: saw what happened to bud Light right trying to I

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Speaker 2: don't even think it was trying to appeal to a

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Speaker 2: subset of its customer base, which I don't know how

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Speaker 2: popular bud Light is or was with the with the

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Speaker 2: transgender community, but to virtue signal to the left that

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Speaker 2: we're a company that cares about this issue. Whatever, Disney,

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Speaker 2: I know you you were involved. I believe in showing.

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Speaker 2: I've talked about this this video many times. Was it

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Speaker 2: was it your work that got the video out there

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Speaker 2: of the woman who said that she had a Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I had tip to you. That was amazing that the

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Speaker 2: head of creative content at Disney said that she had

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Speaker 2: a pan sexual and a non binary like pant sexual

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Speaker 2: child and a non binary child.

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Speaker 1: Do these people what are the odds?

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Speaker 2: What are the odds? Do these people believe this or

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Speaker 2: do they think they have to say this stuff because

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Speaker 2: they're afraid of the woke Marxist in the HR department

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Speaker 2: in your experience, Oh.

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Speaker 1: No, no, they absolutely believe it. And that person in

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Speaker 1: particular is a is a diehard, you know, true believer,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it's just you know, kind of eye popping,

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Speaker 1: uh and almost unimaginable. But what these identities have become,

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Speaker 1: uh is luxury objects. There was a time in America's

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Speaker 1: you know kind of uh you know, Wall Street eighties

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Speaker 1: heyday where you you might want to drive a Lamborghini

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Speaker 1: and have a you know, a product suit. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not not not in that world. But you know,

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Speaker 1: those are the status symbols. But now like having children

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Speaker 1: with unique sexualities is the thing that you want to

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Speaker 1: show the world and shows how tolerant and open and

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Speaker 1: cultured and advanced and free thinking you are. And so

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Speaker 1: she she's bragging through her things. I have a one

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Speaker 1: pan sexual child and one transgender child, and and and

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Speaker 1: and so therefore I I'm kind of the moral authority,

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Speaker 1: but I think it comes from a place of of

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Speaker 1: of kind of a sense of moral of fear. You know,

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Speaker 1: these are this is you know, a middle aged white woman,

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Speaker 1: she's got to stand out in the corporate environment. Well,

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Speaker 1: what better way than to have a kind of a

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Speaker 1: kind of small cornucopia of sexual identities among your offspring.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it seems bizarre when you actually see

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Speaker 1: the video from the public point of view, but if

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Speaker 1: you're actually inside these places and institutions, this is just

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Speaker 1: like the normal conversation. This is the day to day

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Speaker 1: banter and chitter chatter that happens. And so my job

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Speaker 1: is to take this stuff and expose it to the

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Speaker 1: public and to actually have some real feedback for these folks.

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Speaker 1: And I think that with Disney, we certainly did that

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Speaker 1: that was quite a big quite a big story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've talked about it many times and credited

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Speaker 2: your work on it because it's pretty amazing. I want

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Speaker 2: to come back in a second. I'm gonna ask you

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Speaker 2: a question, but I want you to hold don't answer

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Speaker 2: quite yet, but I want to. I want to ask

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Speaker 2: you this and then it will work from our sponsor.

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Speaker 2: But it's what is the what is for you? Just

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Speaker 2: the most outrageous like the craziest DEI training material stuff

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Speaker 2: you've come across from any institution, Like where was it?

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00:21:28,217 --> 00:21:28,857
Speaker 2: And what was it?

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Speaker 1: All? Right?

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Speaker 2: Can I can I get back to that in a second. Well,

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Speaker 2: we'll deal with this one. You know, Chris has written

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Speaker 2: a book which I'm sure is about to be. If

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00:21:35,817 --> 00:21:38,977
Speaker 2: it's not already a bestseller, it's just out so the

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00:21:39,057 --> 00:21:41,137
Speaker 2: numbers are going up, folks. But you know what if

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Speaker 2: you're writing a book, if you're just working on a project,

385
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Speaker 2: you've got something going on at home. What happens if

386
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Speaker 2: your computer fails you? Look it can happen. Happened to

387
00:21:48,137 --> 00:21:49,897
Speaker 2: me the other day a computer wouldn't turn on. I

388
00:21:50,217 --> 00:21:51,817
Speaker 2: figured it out after a while. I had a dead

389
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Speaker 2: battery situation. Stuff stuff goes on what happens if you

390
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Speaker 2: either leave it in the back of a chair or

391
00:21:58,457 --> 00:22:00,697
Speaker 2: on an airplane, or if you have it crash and

392
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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: for that ninety percent off discount. All right, Chris, the

404
00:22:36,657 --> 00:22:40,897
Speaker 2: craziest DEI stuff you've come across so far. If you

405
00:22:40,977 --> 00:22:45,337
Speaker 2: had to give an award for the DEI craziest, it

406
00:22:45,377 --> 00:22:45,817
Speaker 2: would be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's a great idea. I should. I should

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00:22:49,617 --> 00:22:52,217
Speaker 1: create an annual award for the best one. But I

409
00:22:52,257 --> 00:22:53,737
Speaker 1: think that the best one was one of actually my

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00:22:53,817 --> 00:22:58,697
Speaker 1: early stories. I'm at the Sandia National Nuclear Laboratories. These

411
00:22:58,697 --> 00:23:02,177
Speaker 1: are the engineers and technicians that are responsible for actually

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00:23:02,217 --> 00:23:06,737
Speaker 1: building America's nuclear arsenal, so creating the nuclear weapons that

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Speaker 1: are a cornerstone of our defense. And laboratory decided to

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00:23:12,297 --> 00:23:16,297
Speaker 1: send their white male employees to a three day white

415
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Speaker 1: male re education camp in which they had to learn

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Speaker 1: about their privilege. They had to learn about how they

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00:23:22,657 --> 00:23:27,817
Speaker 1: had internalized oppressions. They had to actually write fictitious letters

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Speaker 1: to women and minorities apologizing for their whiteness. And I

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Speaker 1: had all the documents, you know, from this session, and

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Speaker 1: it was just like the most humiliating, degrading, just sad

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Speaker 1: and pathetic thing I've ever seen. And then, okay, whatever,

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Speaker 1: something's degrading and said and humilating, you know, such as life.

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Speaker 1: But then you think, wait a minute, these are people

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Speaker 1: that build our nuclear weapons. It's not just a make

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Speaker 1: work job in the bureaucracy. It's actually pretty important to

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Speaker 1: have guys that are competent and good at their jobs.

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Speaker 1: So I would say that is of all the stories,

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Speaker 1: probably the one that sticks out in my mind the.

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Speaker 2: Most great answer. Everyone should got a copy of America's

430
00:24:10,137 --> 00:24:14,057
Speaker 2: Cultural Revolution from a friend, Chris Ruffo. Chris, always appreciate

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Speaker 2: your work. I'm going to get a copy of the book.

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Speaker 2: I look forward to reading it and thanks so much

433
00:24:17,377 --> 00:24:17,897
Speaker 2: for being with us.

434
00:24:18,057 --> 00:24:18,377
Speaker 1: Thank you