1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Unger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and sixty one, 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: which is first airing in early August of twenty twenty two. 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: I am going to be interviewing Melody Warnick, who is 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: the author of This Is Where You Belong and a 14 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: new book, If You Could Live Anywhere, The surprising importance 15 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: of place in a work from anywhere world. So that 16 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: book deals with a common post COVID topic. Many people 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: can work remotely now, and so if you can live anywhere, 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: where should you live? Melody offers a framework for thinking 19 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 1: this through, and it turns out the answer isn't always Austin, 20 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: Nashville or Miami. Even if it does seem like that's 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: where everybody is moving, you will notice that it is 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: just me talking in this introduction. Unfortunately, Sarah wound up 23 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: with COVID during a recent trip and has a really 24 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: sore throat and a scratchy voice. So she is resting 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: and I am taking over for this week, but I 26 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: promise she will be back soon. So back to Melody. 27 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: I really liked Melody's books because it is fascinating to 28 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: me why people wind up where they are. You could 29 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 1: say that my family moved to the suburbs of Philadelphia 30 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: for my husband's job, and I guess that is the 31 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: most accurate way to say it, but that's not really 32 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: one hundred percent true. I mean, people can transfer between 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: his organization's offices pretty easily, so really we could have 34 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: lived in a lot of different places. This particular little 35 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: town in Pennsylvania was certainly not on a list of 36 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: places I wanted to live when I was growing up, 37 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: But it turns out I really like it. I mean, 38 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot to like here. It's leafy, it's pretty, 39 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: the schools are good. We are close to Philadelphia, so 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: we can get the big city amenities. If we want 41 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: them like museums, sports teams, concerts. We're ninety minutes from 42 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: the Jersey Shore, so that's a day trip, but also 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: ninety minutes from skiing and hiking in the Poconos. The 44 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: Poconos aren't, you know, exactly veil, but they're not terrible, 45 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: and it's nice that the kids can ski or go 46 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: tubing as a day trip. I know Sarah and her 47 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: family chose to live near her husband's extended family in Florida, 48 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 1: which is certainly a great reason for choosing a place 49 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: to live. Of course, there's also a lot to like 50 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: about Florida as well, which is why many people are 51 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: moving there. They don't have to leave the state to 52 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: get to great vacation destinations. I think the cost of 53 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: living is more reasonable, at least in parts of Florida. 54 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: Maybe not downtown Miami, but parts of Florida than a 55 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 1: lot of places. It's, of course, very different from Pennsylvania, 56 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 1: which is why we all have to think through what 57 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: aspects of a place we most want to prioritize when 58 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: we're thinking about this anyway, it is a thought provoking topic. 59 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: Why do you live where you live if it's not 60 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: just for a job, Why did you choose it? Or 61 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: even if it is for a job, there's something that 62 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: you know about looking at the place too when you're 63 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: choosing a job, so you know, ponder it. Why do 64 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: you live where you live? Is it where you want 65 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: to live? Do you see yourself there long term? Have 66 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: you thought about other places? I don't know. But here 67 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: we go with the interview with Melody Warnick. Sarah and 68 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: I are delighted to welcome Melody Warnick to the program. 69 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: So Melody, can you introduce yourself to our listeners? Yeah? 70 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: I am Melody. I'm the author of two books on 71 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: thriving where you live. The first is this is where 72 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: you Belong and the second is if you could Live Anywhere? 73 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: And I have been a writer for many years and 74 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: you currently live in Virginia. Correct, Yeah, that's a big 75 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: part of what you've written about. I live in a 76 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: little town in southwest Virginia called Blacksburg, which is the 77 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: home of Virginia Tech. And how old are your kids? Unbelievably, 78 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: they are super old. Now. I have a twenty year 79 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: old who's in college out west at the University of Utah, 80 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: and a fifteen year old who will be a sophomore 81 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: in college. So for anyone who has read This Is 82 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 1: Where You Belong, we moved to Blacksburg when they were 83 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: in kindergarten and fifth grade, and that is how long 84 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: we've been here, because I am still in Blacksburg, you know, 85 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: it's ten years later. And weirdly they grew up along 86 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: the way. It's so funny because when you read other 87 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: people's books, it's like their children are frozen in time 88 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: at a certain point. So I was all prepared to 89 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: ask you questions about like, you know, kindergarten, nurse and 90 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: fifth graders they when of course they're not anymore. No, 91 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: they used to be, and then they decided to leave 92 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,799 Speaker 1: that behind and move forward with their lives, which is yeah, 93 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: like I do not approve, but they did it. They 94 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 1: did it. Children do grow up. Ye bad thing sometimes 95 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: is a good thing kind of depends what stage of 96 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: life were. And but your first book, This Is Where 97 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: You Belong, was about making some place feel like home. 98 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: And I know a lot of people have wound up 99 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: in random places in the courses of their lives, and 100 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: certainly you moved around a lot as well, and maybe 101 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: you could talk about that and talk about what made 102 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: you decide that this was going to be home. Yeah, 103 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 1: so this is where you belonged. Was really a personal 104 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: journey for me. My husband and I had moved six 105 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: times in five different states over the course of thirteen years. 106 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: And you know, moving for the reasons people moved jobs 107 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: and school and my husband got a job at Virginia 108 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: Tech and that's what took us to Blacksburg, Virginia, from Austin, Texas. 109 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: And we had moved so much that I kind of 110 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: given into this magical thinking that every time we moved, 111 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, this was going to be the best place. 112 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: You know, this new place would change lives and we'd 113 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: move and realize that, you know, it doesn't work like that. 114 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: Moves are a mess and they're chaotic and their effort, 115 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: and so that's what happened in Blacksburg. We chose to 116 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: move knowing very little about the community, just that it 117 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: was kind of this smallish college town. But I built 118 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: that up in my mind, you know, this is going 119 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: to be my Mayberry experience and I'm going to become 120 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: a small town person. And we moved and it wasn't 121 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: what I expected. You know, it started raining every day 122 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: and people are like, oh, yeah, we call it Bleaksburg, 123 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: and you start to realize that you are now settled 124 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,799 Speaker 1: in this place that maybe is not what you wanted. 125 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: It's not your dream community. And we had moved so 126 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: much that, you know, my instant reaction to that was, well, 127 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: we'll just move again, you know, like the way you 128 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: solve that problem is you move again. But at the time, 129 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: my kids were, you know, kindergarten in fifth grade, they 130 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: just started school. My older daughter had gone to school 131 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: elementary school in three states at that point, and my 132 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: husband had just started this new job, and I just thought, 133 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: we have to figure it out. We have to figure 134 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: out how to be happy where we are. And so 135 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: that kind of started this whole journey that led to 136 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: this is where you Belong. I started researching what has 137 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: to happen for people and what do people have to 138 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: do to feel like they're putting down roots in a place, 139 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: And turns out there's a term for that in the 140 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: scientific literature, which is place attachment. So it became this 141 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: journey of seeing if I could create place attachment for 142 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: myself in Blacksburg. And the spoiler is we are still 143 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: here ten years later. We love it and can't imagine 144 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: living anywhere else right now. And so it worked. The 145 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: things that they along the way worked. Now, no one 146 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: has to read the book save you so much. Yeah, 147 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: you're attached to the place, apparently very very tightly attached 148 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: to the place. But I'm sure our readers should read 149 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: the book. But maybe you could share with us a 150 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: few practical things that you did to make it feel 151 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: more like home. Yeah. Absolutely, So. There was a surprising 152 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: amount of scientific research tying the way you feel about 153 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: your place to your actual behaviors in a place. So 154 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: people who are place attached behave a little differently than 155 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: the average person. They do things like vote in their 156 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, municipal elections, They volunteer more, they tend to 157 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: get to know their neighbors better, and maybe even you know, 158 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: work with community members to make some sort of positive change. 159 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: And so as I started reading through this literature and 160 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: just sort of looking at, you know, what do people 161 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: who really love their town do? What are they act like? 162 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: I kind of developed this theory that I was just 163 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: going to start doing some of those things in my town. 164 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: And I called them love where you Live experiments, and 165 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: they were just little action steps, little behavior changes that 166 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: I did in my community, and that anyone could do 167 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: in their community. So it was kind of easy stuff, honestly, 168 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: things like walking more where I live. There's a research 169 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: that shows that's how you build a mental map of 170 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: a place, especially when you're new, and it's kind of 171 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: a way to experience your community at a human pace 172 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: that helps you meet people and get to know it. 173 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: And so I started walking more. I started volunteering. We 174 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: have a nonprofit historic movie theater called the Lyric, and 175 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: I started volunteering there, popping popcorn, still do every week. 176 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: I made an effort to become a regular at a 177 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: local restaurant, which totally did not work. You know, Like 178 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: I thought, if I just go often enough, it's going 179 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: to be like cheers and they're gonna be like melody 180 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: when I walk in the door. That did not happen. 181 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: But what I found is that these kinds of little 182 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: actions changed my perception of Blacksburg. I was intentionally actively 183 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: choosing to engage with the town, choosing to see the 184 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: good in it, choosing to participate in the great things 185 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: that were going on here rather than regret the things 186 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: that we didn't have. You know, we moved from Austin Texas, 187 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: and so our first few months were like, dang, we 188 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: don't have good Mexican restaurants here. But at the point 189 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: where I was finally able to say, Okay, we don't 190 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: have great Mexican restaurants here, but we have a good 191 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: ice cream shop downtown. Or we may not have amazing 192 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: museums and there's no amusement parks here, but we have 193 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: Virginia Tech football games, which are exciting. So place attachment 194 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: really is about becoming intentional, especially when you're new in 195 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: a place, but honestly, even when you've been there for 196 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: a while, it's the things we choose to do that 197 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: help us feel like we belong in this community. Did 198 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: you ever find like a better restule that you wanted 199 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: to become a new regular at? Oh my gosh, yeah 200 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: we have tons now, Like now that we've lived here 201 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: for ten years, we have you know, there's a great 202 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: Mediterranean restaurant called Greens. I still haven't found amazing Mexican 203 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: but that's okay. Not every town can do everything well. 204 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: And sometimes when we think about moving or we think 205 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,679 Speaker 1: about place, we expect that, you know, like we want 206 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: to find the place that's perfect. No town is perfect 207 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: there's always going to be things that annoy you or 208 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: things that are missing, but it's sort of like an 209 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: exercise and contentment, learning to be happy with what's here. 210 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: And really a lot of it is choosing to engage 211 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: in your town. I think that sense of ownership that 212 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: people feel when they get involved, when they volunteer, when 213 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: they maybe take up political causes in their community, those 214 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 1: kinds of things are what make us feel like we 215 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: are part of it here and that helps us put 216 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: down the roots that mikas not want to immediately move again. Yeah, 217 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: well that sounds good. I'm sorry you haven't found a 218 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: good Mexican restaurant, but we can always hope. So maybe 219 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: somebody will open one. It was one one in Blacksburg. 220 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: But we're going to take a quick ad break and 221 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: we'll be right back. Well, I am here with Melody Warnick, 222 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: who is the author of two books, This Is Where 223 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: You Belong and the new book If You Could Live Anywhere. 224 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: So let's givot to talking about If You Could Live Anywhere. 225 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: This book deals with the remote work phenomenon that has 226 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: been rising over the past few decades that there are 227 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: certainly people who can in fact live anywhere so talk 228 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 1: us through you know, why you wrote this book, and 229 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: then maybe a family that's considering this, like they've realized 230 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: they don't have to live in any particular place, what 231 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: they should start thinking about. Yeah, I think this is 232 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: where you belong and if you could live anywhere's kind 233 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: of companion books because this is where you belong. Is Hey, 234 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: you ended up in this town that maybe you don't love, 235 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: and here's some really concrete tools for you to feel 236 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,959 Speaker 1: happier here and kind of change your attitude toward your place. 237 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: But I realized as I wrote it, and as I 238 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: started talking about it more to people and started traveling 239 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: more to different communities, that there is this whole other 240 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: side of this issue of places, which is that a 241 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: lot of people can choose where they live. We saw 242 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,559 Speaker 1: a huge explosion obviously during COVID of people who can 243 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: work remotely, and that has given them the freedom to 244 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: sort of divorce place from where they work, which is 245 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: really for many, many years, that's how people chose locations. 246 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: It's just I have to be here for my job, 247 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden that was completely upended and 248 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: I just kind of became fascinated by this process of 249 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: people really looking hard at where they were going to live. 250 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: You know, I've met people who have done things like 251 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: spend a month in twelve different communities around the United States, 252 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: or people who make, you know, huge spreadsheets of communities 253 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: that they're considering. I've met people who just kind of 254 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: on a whim moved to a new community, and sometimes 255 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: it works and sometimes it doesn't. So I started thinking 256 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: really hard about what should this look like, you know, 257 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: how should people think about moving to a new community, 258 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: and whether they should even do that? You know, is 259 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: that something that everyone who can should do. I feel like, 260 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: even if you're not a remote worker one of those 261 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: people who just pick up and go anywhere, almost everyone 262 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: has what I call an anywhereest moment in their life, 263 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, like a moment of choice. For a lot 264 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: of us, it's you know, when we graduate from college 265 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: maybe and we're getting that first job and we're deciding 266 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: where to live. And there's research that shows that, you know, 267 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: it used to be people got the job and they 268 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: just go wherever the job took them. Now two thirds 269 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: of college graduates want to choose the place first. But 270 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: we also have moments, you know, when you get married, 271 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: or when you're having kids, or you know, just kind 272 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: of these crossroads moments when we start thinking really hard 273 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: about where we want to end up. And that was 274 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: definitely the pandemic for a lot of people. Forty six 275 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: percent of Americans reassessed where they were living during the pandemic, 276 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: and I think that was remote workers and non remote workers. 277 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: It was just kind of that moment that made all 278 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: of us go, are we in the right spot? And 279 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: do we want to change it for ourselves? And so 280 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: if you are realizing that you might have this option 281 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: to change where you are, what's kind of a rubric 282 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: you can think through as you are, you know, first 283 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: like do I want to move? And second, how do 284 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: I choose a community? I mean, there's really truly it's 285 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: like online dating. I mean there's there's just files of 286 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: places that you could choose from right, so many options. 287 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: There's like ten thousand cities in the world, So you know, 288 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: if you are genuinely considering all of them, you are 289 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: going to go crazy before you ever move. I recommend 290 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: that people come up with a location strategy, you know, 291 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: in the same way that businesses like Starbucks are really 292 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: thoughtful about where they're going to put the next store. 293 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: We need to be really thoughtful about where we're going 294 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: to end up moving. So I have a chapter in 295 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: the book that kind of shares some exercises, and you're 296 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: exactly right. The first exercise is all around do I 297 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: actually want to leave the community I'm in. I think 298 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,239 Speaker 1: for a lot of us, there's kind of an attraction 299 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: in the novelty of moving somewhere new, and so if 300 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: all of a sudden your job has gone totally remote 301 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: and you have this new freedom, it's like, oh my gosh, 302 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: Like how can I possibly stay put? I could go anywhere, 303 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 1: But every time we move, we lose something. You know, 304 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: you've built social capital in your community, all these relationships, 305 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: and it may be that when you really think it through, 306 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: you don't actually want to leave, that there are more 307 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: things that are working for you in your community than not, 308 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: or you know, there are things that you would lose 309 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: by moving. However, plenty of people can go through that 310 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: exercise and still decide yep, we are ready to try 311 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: something new. And from that point on, it's like, you know, 312 00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 1: thinking about what's your magical dream land, you know, like 313 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 1: I think of the Good Place. One of my favorite 314 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: TV shows where you know the good play, Well, the 315 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 1: pseudo good place was, you know, like full of frozen 316 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: yogurt stands and you know, unicorns and puppies. So we're 317 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: not going to find the perfect place, but we can 318 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: think about what are places that we've lived in the 319 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: past that really worked for us. What are communities that 320 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: we can imagine ourselves doing well in. Maybe places that 321 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: you visited on vacation. Look at the kinds of communities 322 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 1: that have attracted you in the past and that you've enjoyed. 323 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 1: But I think a huge portion of this is figuring 324 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: out your place values. And that's something I talk about 325 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: a lot in the book that every time we move, 326 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: we're sort of casting a vote for the kind of 327 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: people we want to be, the kind of family we 328 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: want to have, the things that are important to us. 329 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: And so I want people to think really hard about, 330 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, what are the values you want to enact 331 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: in your new community. It might be things like entreprene viewership, 332 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: or wealth. You know, I want to live in a 333 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: community that allows me to grow a business or allows 334 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: me to try something new with my work. Or it 335 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: could be something like I want to spend less time 336 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: on work, So I want to live in a community 337 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: that allows me the freedom to do that. I want 338 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: access to nature, I want to spend more time with 339 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: my kids. So I think there's all sorts of values 340 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: we can apply to where we live. And I really 341 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: tried hard in the book not to spell it out 342 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: for people, because I think we're all so different. I've 343 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: met people who are really happy living in communities of 344 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: one hundred people, and I've met people that would you know, 345 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 1: they would hate that. You know, they are city people 346 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: through and through. So I think we are all different 347 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: in what we're looking for. And the important thing is 348 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: keying into what matters most to you kind of life 349 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 1: you want and what values you want to live out, 350 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: and what kinds of elements in a community or amenities 351 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 1: will help you become the person you want to be. 352 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: And so let's say that you've looked through a bunch 353 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: of places and you know, have somehow figured out that 354 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: these values may match with these which is going to 355 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: take some work, right, You're going to have to talk 356 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: to a lot of people look at because you wouldn't 357 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: necessarily even have heard of let's say a small community 358 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: in Virginia if you didn't know about it, right, like 359 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: if you didn't know about Virginia Tech, you would never 360 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: have known about Blacksburg necessarily. So hopefully you've done your research, 361 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: come up with the list, how do you try them out? Like, 362 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: how do you then go about choosing like what you 363 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: think is going to be right. So one of the 364 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 1: people I talked to in the book was this woman 365 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: and her husband. They've been living in Texas for a 366 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: really long time, and on a road trip they drove 367 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: through Iowa and you know, saw that this victorian house 368 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: for sale in this little small town in Iowa, and 369 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: just kind of on a whim, we're like, yes, you know, 370 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: this is our next life. And they bought this house 371 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 1: and they moved in and pretty quickly realized this was 372 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: not the right move for them. So she became sort 373 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: of an expert in planning the next step. And really 374 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: what it is is, you know, maybe identifying like ten 375 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: factors that are really important to you. You know, like 376 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: it could be population, it could be cost of living, 377 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: it could be you know, I really feel strongly that 378 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: I want community theater here, you know, like that's a 379 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: big part of my life. For you, it might be 380 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: finding a choral society, so you know, you have access 381 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: to this thing that you love. But her approach then 382 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: was to plan visits to all these places. It's really 383 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: hard to do this entirely online. It does take some research, 384 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, figuring out what kinds of communities might suit you. 385 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: But then it's you know, just doing some legwork and 386 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: actually visiting, checking out what it feels like, talking to people, 387 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: you know, going to the farmer's market, walking through neighborhoods 388 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: that might appeal to you. It's hard. Even if you 389 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,120 Speaker 1: spend a week in a place that you're considering, you're 390 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: never going to quite get the same experience as when 391 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: you move there. I saw a tweet yesterday someone saying, 392 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: you know, I've been on vacation in Montreal and it's 393 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: so amazing. Why aren't we all living in Montreal? And 394 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: then you know the responses, of course it's Twitter. We're 395 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: just like, you know, twenty thousand reasons that living in 396 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: Montreal is not the same as visiting. And here's all 397 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: the annoying things that you're not aware of. So there's 398 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: always kind of this leap of faith, right, Like, you 399 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: really can't one hundred percent decide in a way that 400 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: it's totally the right choice, but you can definitely do 401 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: some due diligence. You can talk to people who live 402 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: there about their experience. There's a lot of that available 403 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: online that you can research, and then you just kind 404 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: of make the leap. I try to tell people I've 405 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: been doing a little place coaching, so talking to people 406 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 1: who are trying to make these decisions and are struggling, 407 00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: and they really are wrenching sometimes, you know, even when 408 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: you do have it narrowed down to you know, these 409 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: three cities, figuring out where you actually want to be 410 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: is a huge challenge and it's really emotional. But I 411 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: like to remind people that none of these decisions are permanent. 412 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: You know, if you move to a city and realize 413 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: that it just was the wrong choice, you can do 414 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: this again. But you know, the second half of that 415 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,199 Speaker 1: is the principles of this is where you belong. That 416 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: once you have moved, you will for certain discover things 417 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: that weren't what you expected, that maybe disappointing. And now 418 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,959 Speaker 1: comes the work of becoming intentional about putting down roots 419 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 1: and building your community here so that you do fall 420 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,280 Speaker 1: in love with it. So it's kind of two parts, 421 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, being strategic and thoughtful about what kind of 422 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: place you want to move, and then once you move, 423 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 1: doing the work to actually make it the right place 424 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: for you. I'm glad you mentioned that, because I was 425 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:27,959 Speaker 1: going to ask it seemed that there was a bit 426 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: of a tension between these two concepts because I think 427 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: of this is where you belong as saying you can 428 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: make anywhere home. Yeah, it is about what you do too, 429 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, is presumably you know, if it's not crazy, 430 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: like if you love cities and you've moved to a 431 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: place with like three people, I mean, that's gonna be harder. 432 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: But given that we have myriad options of places we 433 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: can live, you can make anywhere into home. But of 434 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: course the problem is if I could live anywhere, is 435 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 1: you feel more sort of like I made this choice 436 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: and now it's not perfect, and now we have this problem. 437 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: Like I you know, I expected it to be great 438 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 1: because I chose this place to be the great place. 439 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, for sure, right it is that thing of 440 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: I'm going to do all the work in advance I 441 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: can to try and make the best choice for myself 442 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: and be intentional about what I want out of this place, 443 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: and then once I get there, I am going to 444 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: continue to be intentional about getting that thing. One of 445 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: the women that I interviewed for the book is named 446 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: Amy bush Etz, and her family was in the military, 447 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: so they moved a ton and her husband suffered a 448 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: traumatic brain injury, and so they finally were leaving the 449 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: military and trying to think about where to go next. 450 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: And one thing she had noticed is that her husband, 451 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: who kind of was struggling with executive function, did so 452 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: much better when he spent time in nature. And with 453 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: that in mind, we to live in a place that 454 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: connects our family with nature more closely. They ended up 455 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: in Alaska, and it was funny the way she talked 456 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: about it, because you know, they chose Alaska because they're like, 457 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: this is super outdoorsy place. We are going to be 458 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: different people once we moved to Alaska, we are now 459 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: outdoorsy people. And what she realized once they got there 460 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: is that the move did not make them those people. 461 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: They still had to do the work. She describes this 462 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: moment where you know, it's May, it's just starting to 463 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,880 Speaker 1: warm up in Alaska, and she's like, I'm gonna go 464 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: sit on the porch and read Harry Potter, and like, 465 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, ten minutes later, it's raining and she sort 466 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: of realized Alaska is a place of extremes. But if 467 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: I want to create this outdoor, even for myself and 468 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: my family while we're here, we're going to have to 469 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: really commit to putting in the time to get outdoors. 470 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: And so she made this goal to spend time outside 471 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 1: every single gold day and did that. You know, it 472 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: was buying the proper gear and you know, learning to 473 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:13,879 Speaker 1: live with the weather. But because of that commitment, you know, A, 474 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: we chose Alaska because we wanted to connect with the outdoors, 475 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: and b now that we're here, we are going to 476 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: force ourselves to become those people. They really did become 477 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: those people. The place changed them, but it was really 478 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: there choosing their behavior in that place, and the place 479 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: just kind of give them the opportunity that they took. Yeah. 480 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: I love Amy's story. It's it's fun to hear you 481 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: say it. She's a friend, so it's a yeah, yeah, 482 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: that's that's wonderful. I love her. I love her story 483 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: and what they made happened there in a laugh and 484 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: how she writes and talks about it as well. Spaking 485 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: The analogy we could use here is like getting married 486 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: right that you you know, do your due diligence beforehand, ideally, 487 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: and you have chosen somebody who hopefully you know, share 488 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: values with, think has good character and to whom you 489 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: are attracted. But after you get married, no matter how 490 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: perfect the person is, there's going to be something that 491 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: comes up in the course of your time to gather 492 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,399 Speaker 1: and you have to decide to make it work. And 493 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: so it sounds like maybe how we think about place 494 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: could be very similar that these days, most of us 495 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: or many people are not in the arranged marriage version 496 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: where you have to go there because that's where IBM 497 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: is located, and so therefore you must go there. Now 498 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: we have broader choices with it, We have these anywhere moments. 499 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know, once you've said I do, you 500 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: still have to do the work. That's a great analogy, Laura, 501 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: and I'm going to steal it from you and go 502 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: for it. Use it widely. No, I use it widely. Yes. 503 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: I often talk about how it's a relationship that we 504 00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: have with our place and places, like humans have personalities 505 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: and so we have personality conflicts. You know, not every 506 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: town is going to feel like a great fit for 507 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: every person, So you know, you do the best you 508 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: can to find a place that fits with your personality. 509 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: But I think when this is where you belong came out, 510 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,239 Speaker 1: I really have this idea that you can make it 511 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: work anywhere. And then I sometimes started to meet people 512 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 1: who were saying, you know, I've really made an effort here, 513 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: I've really done a lot of these things that you 514 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: suggest in your book, and I still just don't love it. 515 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: And I think that's like marriage, too, right. Sometimes you 516 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: put in the effort and the marriage falls apart over 517 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: time anyway, And so I think there's no shame in 518 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: calling it quits after you have given it that effort 519 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: and trying to find a place that is a better 520 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: fit for you. But it really, you know, it has 521 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: to come back to knowing yourself, and sometimes you change 522 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: over time. A place that was a really good fit 523 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: when you were single isn't as good a fit now 524 00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: that you have a family, or you know now that 525 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: your kids are grown and gone, or things we change, 526 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: and so sometimes what we're looking for in a place 527 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: changes along with us, and we can respond to that, 528 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: particularly when we have a little freedom in where we work. 529 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: Very true, well, speaking of changing things after a long 530 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: time for different stages of life. You recently made a 531 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: career move of you know, you've been freelancing for a 532 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: great many years and then decided to take a job. 533 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about that. Yeah, that 534 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: was crazy. So I had just finished writing If You 535 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: Could Live Anywhere, and was for anyone who's ran a book, 536 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is a long process. You spend a 537 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: year writing the book and then it's an entire other 538 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: year till it publishes. So I had just turned in 539 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 1: the draft and a little loose ends and saw a 540 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: job listing at Virginia Tech, which is the university in 541 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: the town where I live. My husband's worked there for 542 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: ten years, and it seemed like a good fit for me. 543 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: I could go into lots of details about how the 544 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: field of journalists has changed over time and become a 545 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: little harder for freelancers, but there was something appealing about 546 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: not having to hustle so hard to find work and 547 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: just being able to have someone say this is what 548 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: you are doing today. And so I applied and got 549 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: the job. And yeah, like you said, I have been 550 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: a freelancer for twenty years. This is what I've been 551 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: doing for the bulk of my career, and I really 552 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: have loved it, you know, loved having that flexibility. I've 553 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,680 Speaker 1: written for some exciting publications. You know. The day I 554 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: got something in the New York Times was like dreams fulfilled. 555 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: You know, written a lot for Reader's Digest and Good 556 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: Housekeeping and a lot of national magazines like that. So 557 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: it has been a great career for me. But I think, yeah, 558 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: I think I was just ready to try something new. 559 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: It was interesting. I'm glad you asked about this, Laura, 560 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: because in those first few days of or first few 561 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: weeks of having a job where I'm like, oh my gosh, 562 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: I have to get up early and I have to go, 563 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: you know, sit at this desk for hours a day. 564 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: It is a hybrid job, and I can work from 565 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: home basically whenever I want. But you know, all of 566 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: a sudden, I'm like driving to work and it was 567 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: just totally different. And I was reading your book off 568 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: the clock, and you said something about making time for 569 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: the things that were important to you. And there was 570 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: a story in the book about someone who I think 571 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: the story and maybe it was from you or life 572 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: or I can't remember who it was, but start was 573 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 1: about someone who had started like riding their bike to 574 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: work or walking to work or something just to like 575 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: squeeze in that time for something that they loved. And 576 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: I'm a big walker, and I had this massive epiphany 577 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: moment of I can walk to work. And I honestly 578 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: don't know why I hadn't thought of it before. I 579 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: lived just a couple miles from my office, but for 580 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: some reason in my mind till that point, it was like, 581 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: I have a job in an office that means I 582 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: need to drive to work, like I have a commute now, 583 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: And from that moment on, I'm just like, I'm walking 584 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: to work and that allows me to get in a walk. 585 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: I you know, have audiobooks or podcasts that I'm listening to, 586 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: and I have managed, in this kind of crazy new 587 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: schedule to squeeze in this thing that I really love 588 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: and that makes me feel whole and more satisfied with 589 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: my life. So thank you for that key advice. That's awesome. 590 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember what I wrote, but yeah, no, 591 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: that sounds that sounds great now. I walking to work 592 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 1: or biking to work, when people do that can can 593 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: just change the entire you can do that it sounds 594 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: like if it's a hybrid job too, it's it's like 595 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: easing into the world, you know, Yeah, for sure. You know, 596 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: my husband keeps having the regular employment. You found the 597 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: perfect job that is almost a mirror of freelancing. You know. 598 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: I have a lot of flexibility to decide where I 599 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: work and even when I work. It's been interesting to 600 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: have a book come out while I have a full 601 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: time job, totally different than how it was last time, 602 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: and so sometimes I feel like I'm I'm still I'm 603 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: working two jobs, you know. I have a full time 604 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: job with Virgina Tech and then a second job where 605 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 1: I'm you know, working on this book. I'm still doing 606 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: speaking events about place. So it's definitely been an interesting 607 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: shift in my life. But it good so far. I think, 608 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: as with everything, I try not to say this is 609 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: my life forever, and so there may come a point 610 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: when I'm like, this is no longer working. You know. 611 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: The things I miss about freelancing are things like just 612 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: being able to bail on your work in the middle 613 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: of the day and decide, you know, I'm gonna go 614 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: to the lake with my daughter because I want to, 615 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: and my employer frowns on that you know. So so 616 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: I have to work a little more, a little more 617 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: consistently than I'm used to, But there have been great 618 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: things about it. Turns out you can go in and 619 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 1: out of self employment and regular employment one way or 620 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: the other forever. Yeah, for sure, And I think you know, 621 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: that's a good note for anyone who's feeling some dissatisfaction 622 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,759 Speaker 1: with their job. Like, we can try new things, and 623 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of like place. The thing that I always 624 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 1: tell people is even at the point where you move on, 625 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: you're you're taking things about your place with you. You know, 626 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:16,280 Speaker 1: relationships and memories and experiences, And it's like that with work. 627 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: You spend a lot of time building up skills and 628 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: those go with you to the next job. But sometimes 629 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: it is time to try something new, for sure. Yeah, well, Melodie, 630 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: this is fascinating. We always end with a love of 631 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: the week, so this can be anything that is good 632 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: in your life. Right now, I'm actually going to say 633 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: my little corner of Pennsylvania, my town where I live. 634 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: We did move, as our listeners know, we move during 635 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: the pandemic, as one does, but we just moved a 636 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: mile down the road basically, so it's still in the 637 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: same place, so we must love it enough to stay. 638 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: You know, I think Pennsylvania's got a lot of stuff 639 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: going for it. We've got mountains and then we're not 640 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 1: too far from the beach, and you know, got cities 641 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: that you could go to, And so throw that out 642 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: there as the Pennsylvania urban Pennsylvania good. It sound like 643 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: the folks listening to this. I know it's not Nashville 644 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 1: or Austin, but it's still reasonably good as well. Just 645 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 1: how about ye on the radar for people who might 646 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 1: be considered putting it on the radar. Yeah, yeah, guys, 647 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania is awesome. So is Virginia, including the southwest part 648 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: that is not the part anyone thinks of when they 649 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: think of Virginia when I think of Virginia, Yeah, what 650 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: I love right now. So I am speaking of trying 651 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: new places. I went to Paris in April by myself. 652 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: I had been doing dual Lingo French for three years 653 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: and finally got to the point where I'm like, oh, 654 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: I'm basically fluent. I can do this trip. And no 655 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: one in my family was super interesting going and I 656 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: was kind of tired of trying to coordinate it. With friends, 657 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: and so I just went by myself and it was amazing. 658 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,880 Speaker 1: And I also realized I do not speak French or 659 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: understand it. But I want to give a shout out 660 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: to do a lingo for enabling that cross cultural exploration. 661 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: And this is so shallow, but I got really excited 662 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: discovering new seasons of amazing Race on Hulu because that 663 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,280 Speaker 1: was another thing that just empowered me to become really 664 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 1: interested in places and feel adventurous enough to try something new. Yeah, 665 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: that's great. Well, solo travel is awesome. And yes, I 666 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: mean I think many of us have had the experience 667 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,879 Speaker 1: of you know, I have a million years of high 668 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 1: school French, and I don't really realize what shouldn't have 669 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: rose exactly. Phrase, I do not speak French. Most people 670 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: will be even they're like, you're American, I'm gonna speak 671 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,080 Speaker 1: We'll speak English to you because somehow our foreign language 672 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: instruction actually works so right, something went right there that 673 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: it isn't going right for us, but it isn't going 674 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 1: right for us exactly. Yeah, all right, well, Melody, well 675 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: we could so. Melodie's books are at this Is Where 676 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,800 Speaker 1: You Belong and the new book If You Could Live anywhere, 677 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,919 Speaker 1: and how can our listeners find you? You can find 678 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: the books where books are sold, and I have a 679 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: website that is my name, Melody Warnick dot com and 680 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: you can subscribe to my once in a while newsletter 681 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:47,280 Speaker 1: there about place plus funny twitter links. Sounds good? All right, Melodi, 682 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Thanks so much, Laura. 683 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure. Hey listeners, this is Laura. I am 684 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: back here solo after that interview with Melody Warnick. As 685 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: I mentioned in the recording earlier, Sarah has lost her 686 00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: voice to to COVID, so she is resting up and 687 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,399 Speaker 1: we hope she will be back to recording very very soon. 688 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 1: In the meantime. This week's question comes from a listener 689 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 1: who is looking to start a podcast with a friend. 690 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: She says, do Sarah and I have any advice. I 691 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,360 Speaker 1: can't speak for Sarah, of course, but here is some 692 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: of mine. I think it's wonderful that you are doing 693 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: this with a friend, because while I am flying solo 694 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: this week, it is really great that I don't have 695 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: to do this all the time. Having a co host 696 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: means that you can make an episode out of the 697 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: two of you talking, so that opens up a lot 698 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: of possibilities. The nature of a back and forth conversation 699 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: is that it is almost inevitably going to be more 700 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: interesting than just one person talking. You can also divide 701 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: and conquer on the podcast labor. At the beginning, Sarah 702 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: and I did all the interviews together, but of course 703 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: that was a lot of logistics to deal with, so 704 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: we began splitting them up, and we can also divide 705 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: up our advertising recordings. It also is great to have 706 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: two people in case one person gets sick this week, 707 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: or I went on a short maternity leave, for instance, 708 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: after having Henry. We've had various things, people on vacations 709 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,640 Speaker 1: where it's helpful just to have two people rather than one. 710 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: So as for specific advice, I would recommend trying to 711 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 1: record at least three to five episodes before you officially launch, 712 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: because if you can do that, then you know you've 713 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,719 Speaker 1: got a topic that is going to be sustainable. If 714 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: you are really struggling to get to three episodes, you're 715 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 1: going to have a hard time maintaining a weekly publishing schedule. 716 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: Having three to five episodes done also allows people to 717 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: try you out when they first discover you, even if 718 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 1: it's very early in the podcast's history, and they can 719 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,760 Speaker 1: decide that they are fans because they've listened to several 720 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: episodes without having to wait a week for you to 721 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: publish the next episode. So that can help you build 722 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: momentum right from the beginning. Sarah and I don't script 723 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: our episode's word from word. Instead, what we do is 724 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 1: write out outlines. I think this is helpful to make 725 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: sure we cover all the angles of a topic that 726 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,759 Speaker 1: we want to and helps keep the episodes more on 727 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: track than they might otherwise be. I'd also recommend making 728 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: regularly recurring segments, so then rather than facing like thirty 729 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: minutes of airtime, what do I fill this with? You 730 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: know that you always spend say three minutes on this segment, 731 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 1: and then five minutes on this and so forth. You 732 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: end with something else, perhaps a love of the week, 733 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: Just throw that out there. We hired help for editing 734 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,760 Speaker 1: and publishing, and I think if you are serious about 735 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,280 Speaker 1: doing this long term, that is something to look into, 736 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: because otherwise the volume of technical work that you would 737 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,439 Speaker 1: need to do could get overwhelming and that might lead 738 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: to you quitting, even if you are mostly enjoying the 739 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: recording itself. Make sure you tell everyone you know, when 740 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: you start your podcast and give it some time to grow. 741 00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: It is hard to get an audience immediately, but if 742 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: you do keep publishing regularly, over time, people will find 743 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: you and tell their friends. At least we hope they 744 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: tell their friends. Are you guys telling your friends about us? 745 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: Please do so. Good luck with the podcast. We can't 746 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:00,840 Speaker 1: wait to see what you do with it, and in 747 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: the meantime, this has been best of both worlds. I 748 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: interviewed Melody Warnick about her new book, If You Could 749 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: Live Anywhere. Sarah and I will be back next week 750 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: with more on making work and life fit together. Thanks 751 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 1: for listening. You can find me Sarah at the shoebox 752 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and 753 00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. 754 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: This has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please 755 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: join us next time for more on making work and 756 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: life work together.