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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Naked Sports. We are doing a

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Speaker 1: today's show about Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bean Bryant, many of

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Speaker 1: you may know Sunday was a fifth anniversary of Kobe

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Speaker 1: Bryant's death, and it still feels for me anyway, as

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Speaker 1: a Lakers fan, loud and proud with my Lakers shirt on,

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Speaker 1: it still feels to me very real. It feels as

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Speaker 1: if it's not something that I have been able to

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Speaker 1: come to terms with. And also it also just reminds

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Speaker 1: me that life is just so precious. And so there

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Speaker 1: is a docuseries that came out this weekend Saturday, January

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Speaker 1: twenty fifth, and it is about the making of a legend,

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Speaker 1: Kobe Bean Bryant, and it gives us the before and

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Speaker 1: after of Kobe. It gives us Kobe as a kid

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Speaker 1: in Italy. It gives us Kobe before he went to

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Speaker 1: the league, and then it gives us Kobe, you know,

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Speaker 1: while he's in the league and trying to figure it out.

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Speaker 1: And like any hero, there are so many different sides

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Speaker 1: to Kobe that some people love and some people don't.

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Speaker 1: Is that perfect intersection of being a hero but also

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Speaker 1: being someone that can be villainized at the same time,

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Speaker 1: every one of our heroes lives in that dichotomy of

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Speaker 1: where they are loved and hated. And it also talks

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Speaker 1: about Colorado, and I do believe to me, approaching what

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Speaker 1: did or did not happen in Colorado has been arguably

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Speaker 1: the hardest story to reconcile about Kobe Bryant as one

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Speaker 1: of his biggest fans, I also believe there are people

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Speaker 1: who are confused by that as well. But I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: say the ugly part out loud. The truth of it

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Speaker 1: is is that winning solves all and we're watching it

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Speaker 1: in real time in life, but with all of our

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Speaker 1: heroes and our famous people. But I'm really excited about

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Speaker 1: the stock You series because I think it's time to

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Speaker 1: honor him in many other ways ways that allow us.

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Speaker 1: If you are a fan of sport, if you are

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Speaker 1: a fan of the Lakers, if you're a fan of

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Speaker 1: Kobe Bryant, it allows us to get some answers to

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Speaker 1: such a gray figure. And by gray, I mean he

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Speaker 1: lived in the middle. We only knew what we needed

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Speaker 1: to know. He didn't tell us much about who he was.

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Speaker 1: I really don't know much about his family life, or

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Speaker 1: how he grew up. I don't really know much about

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Speaker 1: his relationships with the people he played with, and as

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Speaker 1: a fan, I think I want all of those answers.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at

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Speaker 1: the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal

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Speaker 1: the common threads that bind them all.

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Speaker 2: So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what

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Speaker 2: we've been trying.

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Speaker 3: To get to for almost thirty years.

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Speaker 1: From the stadiums where athletes break barriers and set records,

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Speaker 1: Kayman Clark broke the all time single game assist record.

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Speaker 4: This is crazy for rookies to be doing.

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Speaker 2: To the polls where history is written, and now we

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Speaker 2: have Kamala Harrison, it feels more like women are sort

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Speaker 2: of taken what they've always deserved, as opposed to waiting

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Speaker 2: on somebody to give them what they deserve.

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Speaker 1: Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms

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Speaker 1: and the community we create. In each episode, we'll sit

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Speaker 1: down with athletes, political analysts, and culture critics, because at

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Speaker 1: the core of it all, how we see one issue

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Speaker 1: shines the light on all others. Welcome to Naked Sports.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Gary Champion.

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Speaker 4: My name is Eric Johnson.

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Speaker 3: I am executive producer for CNN original series. I'm also

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Speaker 3: EP of some of our singular hours, Blindsided on her Terms,

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Speaker 3: Serena Williams taking on Taylor Swift. We did Call Me Country,

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Speaker 3: which is a Beyonce doc that we did last year,

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Speaker 3: and then we did the Making of Martha Stewart last January,

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Speaker 3: and this year the making of a Legend with That's

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Speaker 3: about Kobe.

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Speaker 1: Right, Kobe believed in himself even at the youngest possible age.

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Speaker 4: I have decided to skip college and take my talent

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Speaker 4: to the NBA.

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Speaker 3: Huge, global to people who may never even know what

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Speaker 3: a basketball looks like.

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Speaker 4: Felt this present?

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Speaker 1: How did this all come about?

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Speaker 4: So I'm a huge basketball fan, Knicks fan.

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Speaker 1: Admittedly, I'm sorry, I'm not Tokyo Tokyo Takyoh Carrie, but.

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Speaker 4: I'll make a huge basketball fan. I love basketball.

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Speaker 3: I love this game that's built around putting a ball

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Speaker 3: in a hoop, and that's the whole game it's about.

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Speaker 3: It's just simple, and it has evolved into something that

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Speaker 3: is artful, that is political, that gets people angry, that

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Speaker 3: makes people smile, makes people laugh, makes people cry, and

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Speaker 3: and has done all those things with me, and after

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Speaker 3: Kobe died tragically five years ago, you know, he was

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Speaker 3: one of my favorite players. Even though he tormented my knicks,

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Speaker 3: he was one of my favorite players, just like the

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Speaker 3: heart that he poured into this game that again is

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Speaker 3: about just simple putting a ball into a basket. And

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Speaker 3: so something that struck me after he died and when

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Speaker 3: we were searching for what our next you know, Bio

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Speaker 3: was going to be from my team, something that struck

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Speaker 3: me was that I really didn't feel that people after

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Speaker 3: he passed really knew why.

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Speaker 4: His story connected with them.

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Speaker 3: His death brought a lot of people together in a

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Speaker 3: way that was surprising to me. I was surprised by

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Speaker 3: the amount of just the global love that people had

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Speaker 3: on this individual at that moment, and I was really

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Speaker 3: just taken by it. But I didn't feel that people

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Speaker 3: really connected with this idea that he had a family,

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Speaker 3: he had something.

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Speaker 4: Beyond just him on the court.

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Speaker 3: And when we were putting this and we were developing this,

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Speaker 3: I wanted to know more about his parents, his relationships

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Speaker 3: off the court. We wanted to know. I knew that

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Speaker 3: he grew up in Italy and with his dead and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that part especially is very vague, like, yeah, grew

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Speaker 1: up in Italy.

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Speaker 4: That was the life.

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Speaker 1: You spoke a Tai and we knew that, But you're right.

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Speaker 3: You didn't really know why that was important, how it

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Speaker 3: framed him.

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Speaker 4: I knew about when we get into Colorado and all

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Speaker 4: of that.

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Speaker 3: When the alleged assault that happened, I knew enough about it,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't really think that deeply into it. And

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Speaker 3: so when we were building this, you know, I was

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Speaker 3: curious about what things made.

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Speaker 4: This man the man that he was, and we.

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Speaker 3: Started doing a lot of research. We sent the team

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Speaker 3: out out to Europe, to Italy for a couple of

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Speaker 3: weeks to talk to his friends out.

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Speaker 1: There, you know, and let me I hate to do

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Speaker 1: this right here, but when you say you sent the

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Speaker 1: team out to Italy and you have to talk to

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Speaker 1: his friends and family, never once did you think, let

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Speaker 1: me call it the biggest Kobe fan. I know she

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Speaker 1: deserves some positive she deserves to be in Italy journo.

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Speaker 1: We had just given so much love and all of

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Speaker 1: the bone.

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Speaker 4: That I did not go on that trip either.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, fine, let me just move on from that. Okay, No,

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Speaker 1: this sounds wonderful. I'm excited.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we sent a team there just to get

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Speaker 3: to know or to speak to people that grew up

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Speaker 3: with him there correct and could tell us his story

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Speaker 3: in fluent Italian. There we got all of this amazing

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Speaker 3: footage that we've never seen of Kobe and his family

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Speaker 3: living there.

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Speaker 4: And then when.

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Speaker 3: We started doing our research and our archival search for

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Speaker 3: video here in Pennsylvania, Philadelphia. My whole family's from Philly.

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Speaker 3: I love Philadelphia. It was interesting to understand how that

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Speaker 3: city shaped him.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then Los Angeles, of course, like there's no place

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Speaker 3: that loves Kobe more than that city. And so you

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Speaker 3: have this this guy that was built by a lot

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Speaker 3: more than just the stuff that he did on the court,

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Speaker 3: and that was something that we were just eager to

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Speaker 3: get into.

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Speaker 4: Eric.

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Speaker 1: When I was looking at these screeners, there are three

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Speaker 1: because it's this is a three part docuseriies. So you're welcome,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen who loves sports and Kobe. What I

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Speaker 1: thought was really interesting was you were able in these

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Speaker 1: three episodes to talk about very almost segmented parts of

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Speaker 1: his life that were very important to what we remember.

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Speaker 1: One and who he was, how Kobe was, you know,

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Speaker 1: Kobe before and after Colorado, Kobe before and after the

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Speaker 1: Achilles to tear, Kobe before and after Shock. Quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: these he had lives, and they were all and it

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Speaker 1: could have been happening simultaneously. But at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, Kope was. He connected with so many different

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Speaker 1: I think with me for different reasons than he would

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Speaker 1: connect with you. I like that he didn't like to

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Speaker 1: talk to people. I like that he was nobody's friend.

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Speaker 1: I like that he was really clear that I can't

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Speaker 1: pass you the ball because you don't work hard enough

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Speaker 1: in practice, so I can't trust you to me. There

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Speaker 1: was no emotion to the way in which he played,

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Speaker 1: unless it was about this singular thing, which was winning. Now.

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Speaker 1: When he came to Los Angeles, I remember like it

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Speaker 1: was yesterday. Talk to me about what people will learn

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Speaker 1: about a kid coming straight from high school, because the

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Speaker 1: social equity is different when you come to a team

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Speaker 1: like the Los Angeles Lakers and you're eighteen years old

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Speaker 1: and you're just shooting shots randomly. What were you able

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Speaker 1: to discover about his personality when he left high school

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Speaker 1: and went to Los Angeles to play professional sports. One

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Speaker 1: of a few.

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Speaker 4: Man confidence is not even the word it is.

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Speaker 3: I kept thinking back and when we were doing this,

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Speaker 3: when we were looking at it him as a teenager

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Speaker 3: going to the NBA, I'm thinking about myself. You try to,

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Speaker 3: you know, empathize and as much as you can.

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Speaker 4: I am not I'm a terrible basketball player.

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Speaker 3: But I'm thinking about you were entering not a workforce,

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Speaker 3: You're entering a profession. So that's one part of it.

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Speaker 3: It's a physical profession against people that are that you idolize,

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Speaker 3: and so you're as a kid and yet he was

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Speaker 3: bigger than most kids his ageality, you're entering this place

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Speaker 3: and it's a serious sport. They want to jack you up,

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Speaker 3: and he did not enter that sport soft.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he entered thinking I'm better than you.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to do all of that rookie stuff

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Speaker 3: that you make the rookies carry this and then I'm

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Speaker 3: not going to do any of it.

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Speaker 4: Because I'm not. Because I'm not, and I'm not going

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Speaker 4: to apologize.

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Speaker 1: And because I don't. I shouldn't.

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Speaker 3: I shouldn't, And it's it is, I don't know how

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Speaker 3: you have that.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: That's something. And Chase McGrady says, this team when I

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Speaker 3: sat that with him. He said, I not everybody has that, correct,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's something you're born with. Is this super

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Speaker 3: confidence his parents, And this is something that I was

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Speaker 3: very much eager to kind of explore as much as

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Speaker 3: we could. His father was a basketball player. His mother

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Speaker 3: taught him great discipline and competitiveness, and he took that

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Speaker 3: from them and their belief.

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Speaker 4: They had a lot of belief in him.

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Speaker 3: When he went off to the NBA, they were right

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Speaker 3: there and said, oh, yeah, he can do it.

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Speaker 4: And I just that's mind boggling.

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Speaker 1: It's mind boggling because usually your parents are trying to

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Speaker 1: hold you back. But the way he even carried himself,

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Speaker 1: there's an image there's a clip that you use that

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Speaker 1: we've seen over before, but when he was leaving high

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Speaker 1: school and he just stood at the podium and he

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Speaker 1: was just looking around like you're welcome, it felt very presidential. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: shades on his head. He was like, let me bless

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Speaker 1: you all with this information that I'm going to share.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and take my palettes, you know.

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Speaker 4: And I remember that the moment, and it's when do

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Speaker 4: you a high schooler?

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Speaker 3: And it's hard for people to see what he was then,

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Speaker 3: because he's so tall and he's in a suit.

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Speaker 4: But like, this is an actual kid.

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Speaker 3: That is going to correct Jordan correct and that is

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Speaker 3: out there saying he's.

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Speaker 1: Better correct and he was a kid.

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Speaker 4: He's a kid, and if.

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Speaker 1: He believed it or not, he believed it, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like.

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Speaker 4: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 3: And so and also to go through that whole season

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Speaker 3: really not caring if people like you, which is something

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Speaker 3: we all, you know, we struggled now with imposter syndrome

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Speaker 3: and this and that and the other thing.

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Speaker 4: And he's just like, yeah, I'm an impostor. I don't care.

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Speaker 4: And it's it's incredible.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, did I say that? Warngway do such and such?

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Speaker 1: Like Melway's like, I don't know what happened. Amnesia. The

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Speaker 1: greats have amnesia. It's the saying in sports, the greats

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Speaker 1: have amnesia. They're able to forget and focus on what

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Speaker 1: happens in life. But I mean that applies to life.

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Speaker 1: But the people who don't ruminate over things and just

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Speaker 1: do what they know their instinct tells him to do,

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Speaker 1: whether that be truly authentic or pa really well or

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Speaker 1: just really special. And he was one of those special guys.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of that had to do he

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Speaker 1: let me, let me put him on the couch. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of that had to do too with

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Speaker 1: his relationship with his parents. As we know, he didn't

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Speaker 1: have one, and that is a really hard thing to understand.

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Speaker 1: That wound is tough, no matter how how comfortable he was.

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Speaker 1: How do you think what were you able to discover

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Speaker 1: without obviously giving everything away, but what were you able

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Speaker 1: to discover in this docu series about that, about that

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Speaker 1: relationship that went unrepaired even until his death.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that it's complicated, and I'm

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Speaker 3: I'm in listen. I'm in no position to judge anybody's

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Speaker 3: relationship with their family member, especially when you're very young

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Speaker 3: and you start making money and your parents are living

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Speaker 3: with you. I can imagine, and you're Kobe're you're the

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Speaker 3: best at something at your level, and you're trying to

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Speaker 3: grapple with being the best and also being a man

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Speaker 3: and also so trying to you know, he would still

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Speaker 3: we were told he was still like taking the trash

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Speaker 3: out for his folks and stuff.

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Speaker 4: It was like a real they were a real unit.

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Speaker 3: I think there are things that we don't know, and

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Speaker 3: we won't know until those groups decide to kind of

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Speaker 3: come out and talk about them in terms of what

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Speaker 3: really went on with their relationship on things that we

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Speaker 3: just didn't see.

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Speaker 4: But I do think, I like, I mean, I'm an idealist.

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Speaker 3: I like to believe that, you know, he's still carried

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Speaker 3: a lot of the lessons that they taught him on

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Speaker 3: and off the court. And when we it was really

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Speaker 3: fun to hear the interviews few as they are with

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Speaker 3: his mom and with his father. Yeah, that's yeah, you

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Speaker 3: can you can really hear him in that, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it you know, it's sad to think about how

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Speaker 3: their their relationship was fractured, but it's also you hope

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Speaker 3: that he was able to kind of carry on some

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Speaker 3: of the major lessons that they taught.

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Speaker 1: So when we come back explains how they decided to

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Speaker 1: approach the infamous Colorado rape accusations back in a moment.

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant has been accused of

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Speaker 3: sexual assault. In the back of his mind, he was

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Speaker 3: thinking like that, in my family exam exam, like that.

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Speaker 1: How would you describe Colorado? How would you describe the

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Speaker 1: rape out allegations Kobe before and Kobe after, and how

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Speaker 1: the world viewed him.

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Speaker 3: So let's let's take a step back, because I the

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Speaker 3: Colorado part of it. I want to.

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Speaker 4: Touch on.

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Speaker 3: How we used it and why I felt, as the

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Speaker 3: executive producer, that it was important for us to talk

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Speaker 3: about this, and that is.

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Speaker 4: When you start to look at his life.

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Speaker 3: And when I started to look at the actual transcripts

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Speaker 3: and dig into it, I had misremembered a lot from

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Speaker 3: my time when when that story happened.

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Speaker 4: There were just things in my brain.

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Speaker 3: I had remembered that whole a situation much differently than

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Speaker 3: when I actually started to read what happened.

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Speaker 4: And I was I was struck by that.

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Speaker 3: And it's conflicting because you have your thoughts about this

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Speaker 3: person and how they died and how you remember them

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Speaker 3: in that moment.

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Speaker 1: What were you conflicted by?

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Speaker 3: I don't think I knew the coverage as well as

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Speaker 3: I thought I knew it in terms of what the

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Speaker 3: young lady had said happened. I certainly don't remember reading

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Speaker 3: that apology letter, which is remarkable from Kobe.

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Speaker 1: You don't remember the letter.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember at that time. There were just things

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Speaker 3: that like I personally was not. I remembered the story differently, okay,

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Speaker 3: And so for me it was important to see how

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Speaker 3: he was before that, like you mentioned, then after.

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Speaker 1: How was he before? In your eyes?

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Speaker 4: In my eyes, he.

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Speaker 3: Was choose my words carefully, sure, yeah, podcasts yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: Of course.

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Speaker 3: In my in my brain, I felt like there was

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Speaker 3: a vulnerability after the fact, there was I think the

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Speaker 3: Mamba mentality after he after that whole episode, how he

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Speaker 3: kind of drilled down and was able to channel his

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Speaker 3: feelings someplace in a way that I don't think he

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Speaker 3: really was before. Something that I was just really saying,

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Speaker 3: I'm saying after because beforehand the thing.

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Speaker 1: That I'm alway, there's and there's eight Kobe exactly.

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Speaker 3: But I think the thing that I was very struck

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Speaker 3: struck by when reading the transcript is just how open

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Speaker 3: he was with the officers who spoke to Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: I was struck by that this man who you said

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Speaker 3: it he didn't talk to. He was very very private,

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Speaker 3: and in this moment when he's talking to telling people

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Speaker 3: what happened, he is open. He's vulnerable in that moment,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure he probably looks at it much differently.

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Speaker 4: It would look at it much differently after the fact.

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Speaker 3: But I do feel like there was a change in him,

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Speaker 3: you know, as as there would have been. And I

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Speaker 3: think that any honest documentary about him has to has

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Speaker 3: to address in a serious way. You know what happened

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Speaker 3: in Colorado, where's that young lady's voice in all of this,

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Speaker 3: and how that story transformed his life. I was also

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Speaker 3: struck by the way the cultural culturally have, the way

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Speaker 3: the culture responded.

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Speaker 4: He was on getting a Kid's Choice Award.

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Speaker 3: I believe it was like two weeks after this happened,

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Speaker 3: which is for him.

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Speaker 4: I understand the pr of the world we're in, but

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Speaker 4: it was just it was just it was what interesting

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Speaker 4: to be this.

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Speaker 1: Space of Wow, that's just wild hearing you say that,

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Speaker 1: because I really I don't look at it that way,

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Speaker 1: but I know I am so biased. And I also

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Speaker 1: think there is this because he's passed away, people almost

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Speaker 1: hesitate to talk about that because you don't want to

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Speaker 1: speak ill of those who are not here. Of course,

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Speaker 1: do you remember the gil do we incorporate and I

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Speaker 1: don't want to give anybody. Okay, So the Gail King

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Speaker 1: of it all when she right after Kobe's death death

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Speaker 1: she interviewed Lisa Leslie do you remember that? And she

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Speaker 1: pushed back and the question was fair. Her commentary, I

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Speaker 1: don't think was do you think Kobe? She questioned whether

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Speaker 1: or not he did what he was accused of in Colorado?

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Speaker 1: That's a fair question. That's just a question. Do you

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Speaker 1: think it? And then and then when Lisa was like no,

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Speaker 1: adamantly not, Gail's pushback was, how would you know? That's

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Speaker 1: just not fair? He wouldn't be that way around you.

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Speaker 1: Then he and I That's what threw everybody off sent

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Speaker 1: the question because I feel as a journalist the question

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Speaker 1: is on the record, which is why I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think it's inbounds, which is why I'm glad you incorporated it.

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Speaker 1: But I am I am a believer, especially being in

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Speaker 1: sports for the majority of my life, that winning solves all.

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Speaker 1: Oh you have to say the quiet part out loud.

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Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, I don't care who you are. I don't

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Speaker 1: care what you do. I don't care what crimes you commit.

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Speaker 1: Are you bringing me joy in my sports and my

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Speaker 1: personal life? Whatever joy you're bringing me. We absolve athletes

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Speaker 1: like there is no tomorrow, and we see that happen.

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Speaker 3: We see him travel from the courtroom while a game

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Speaker 3: is playing, go on to the court and score a

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Speaker 3: buzzer beater. It is incredible, but it also speaks to

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Speaker 3: American culture, a culture it's not necessarily even sports or

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Speaker 3: Kobe relating to what you're saying, which is when you're

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Speaker 3: killing it, people willing, and so I do think that

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Speaker 3: that is worth I think that the discomfort that I

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00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,040
Speaker 3: think we both have even talking about it now, it's

401
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 3: like it's awkward, and there's an awkward discomfort in talking

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Speaker 3: about it. But that's one of the reasons why I

403
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Speaker 3: was it. I want to make essentiain like I want

404
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 3: to make people uncomfortable, but I want to make sure

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Speaker 3: that the work we do, it's it makes people think

406
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Speaker 3: about how we But you can believe you can come

407
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Speaker 3: to the same conclusion and love him at the end

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Speaker 3: of it, and that is all you.

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Speaker 1: And that is me. But we should, we should, we

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Speaker 1: should talk about it.

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Speaker 3: I got to talk openly about what happened, and I

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Speaker 3: would encourage everybody to do their own research, search into.

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Speaker 1: These transcripts available out there.

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Speaker 3: Everything we've reported in here is has been reported. The

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00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 3: audio you hear of Kobe talking about what happened. Those

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Speaker 3: are his words, and it's interesting to hear that, and

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Speaker 3: it was stuff that I just had not I kind

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Speaker 3: of had put it in an a vault for myself,

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Speaker 3: and so when we had the opportunity to dig deeper

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Speaker 3: into this story, you know, I wanted to make sure

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Speaker 3: we're giving an honest interpretation of someone's full life. But

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Speaker 3: I feel, I really do feel like it would have

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Speaker 3: been doing an injustice to him to ignore things, even

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Speaker 3: if they make us feel a bit uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the beauty right of what we do, to

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Speaker 1: look at the world in a way in which and

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Speaker 1: ask questions and force people to think. I remember, because

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Speaker 1: it's not I support the Lakers. I've been a diehard

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Speaker 1: Laker fan since I was a kid. I didn't have

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Speaker 1: a choice, and I remember when this was happening. I

431
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Speaker 1: was living in Florida. I was a local news reporter,

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Speaker 1: and then even when I moved to LA working in

433
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Speaker 1: Sports Center, and I would always talk about how Kobe's

434
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Speaker 1: my favorite player without fail. Whenever I did that, there

435
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: would be a women's rights group saying, how could you

436
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Speaker 1: support this type of person. They're very adamant that they

437
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: didn't like Kobe, and I said, this is one of

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Speaker 1: these things I cannot explain to you. And I was like,

439
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Speaker 1: this is one of these things that feels very hypocritical.

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Speaker 1: Considering how I try to speak for women. I have

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Speaker 1: been very adamant about standing up for talk abou different

442
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 1: athletes who have had criminal records for for abusing women.

443
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: And here I am in the in this intersection, knowing

444
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: that someone can say everything that I'm saying about ex athlete,

445
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: they could say about Kobe Bryant. And I was so

446
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: in defense of Kobe Bryant. And there was no rhyme

447
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 1: or reason outside of the fact that I am a

448
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,159
Speaker 1: fan and fanatically in love with the Lakers. And it

449
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: felt so uncomfortable. But I had to make peace with

450
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: that as I wear my Kobe shirt. I had to

451
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: make peace with that. And I know that people are

452
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: upset with that. That intersection is a real intersection of life.

453
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 4: That's everything.

454
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's nuanced, yes, And I think that's something we

455
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 3: try to do really well in the original series at CNN.

456
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 4: When you look at the stuff that.

457
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: We have coming out this year, Luther, these are these

458
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 3: are nuances I'm waiting for Luthor. He's out it's it's

459
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,120
Speaker 3: it's these are nuances.

460
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,959
Speaker 1: Wait, Luther is out. When did when did it come

461
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: beyond Maxim February?

462
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 4: Okay, great.

463
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: Luther, all of them Okay, from skinny to big to

464
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: in betweens. Because you can't give me one, luthgive it

465
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 1: much like we're discussing Kobe and the Kobe's Oh.

466
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 3: That what you're talking about, that awkward intersection. I have

467
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 3: been there, not only with this story, but with lots

468
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 3: of stories, and I think.

469
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 4: That that's a good place.

470
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 3: There's somebody wrong with being at that place, as long

471
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 3: as you're you're aware of it and you're asking those yourself,

472
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 3: those questions like he.

473
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: Just reveals who we are exactly.

474
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 3: And really that his story the reason I love stories

475
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:44,399
Speaker 3: like his, like Serena's, these are to me the most

476
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 3: American stories. They're complicated, the criminal case will be dropped.

477
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 3: He had to take a good, hard look at himself

478
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 3: and decide who am I really.

479
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 4: That's when Black Mombel was born.

480
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: Back in a moment, it's.

481
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 4: One of the most remarkable stories in sports history.

482
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: The last thing you think is someone's going to pass away.

483
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 1: The world actually stood still for a moment when you

484
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: we all know how the story ends in terms of

485
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,639
Speaker 1: what happened with Kobe? How do you how do you

486
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: view his death? Because during that time, two things were happening,

487
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: the pandemic with the world shut down maybe a month

488
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: or and some change.

489
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: It was right after because I remember I was like

490
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: March eleventh, I was like at work, which I would

491
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: not have been at at that band, but it was

492
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 3: like the last one of the last big gatherings. I

493
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 3: believe was that it was like a national morning, and

494
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 3: then the pandemic really started to pick up right after.

495
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,719
Speaker 1: I believe, Yeah, you're right, Oh what will we What

496
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: will we learn about Kobe and GG and sadly the

497
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: other people who were in the helicopter that day? What

498
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: will we learn that we don't already know? How do

499
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 1: you talk about that?

500
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: I think what you learn and what I was struck

501
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: by is Kobe ended his career really at the top

502
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 3: as playing his greatest basketball as good. He scored like

503
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 3: sixty some odd points in his final game, and that

504
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: could easily have been.

505
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: A chapter that kind of closed.

506
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 3: But he he had this obsession with this idea of

507
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: being a storyteller, and I think when I first heard that,

508
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 3: I was like.

509
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does that mean? You know?

510
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 4: But he really was a story.

511
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: Dear basketball. That letter he put in the Players Tribune

512
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: was really beautiful.

513
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 4: That's exactly.

514
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 3: And really you see we get we have a whole

515
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: section and there's gonna be a digital extra that looks

516
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 3: into deer basketball and some of the other written works

517
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 3: that he did.

518
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, this man loved to tell stories.

519
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: He was a real lover and believer of women's sports

520
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 3: in a way that I think that people know but

521
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 3: they don't.

522
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: He was ahead of the game, Like, really he was

523
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: ahead of the game. He was ahead of the game.

524
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: And I think you.

525
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 3: See you see a glimmer of what his life may

526
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 3: have been. And that's the part at the end of

527
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: the episode that I think is just wrenching, is because

528
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 3: you see him driving kind of towards this bigger life.

529
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh we do is so sad. I cry all the time, surrible.

530
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna cry on this interview. I promised myself,

531
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 1: I will ask you this. Do you feel like this

532
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: will provide I don't know a better insight to who

533
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: Kobe Bryan is. He was such an enigma. Players to

534
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: this day will say I remember Rick Fox saying Kobe.

535
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: We just want to We just want to know. You

536
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: need us because Kobe was very isolated, intentionally isolated, and

537
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: I think there are many reasons for that, but there

538
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: is such a mystery about who he was on and

539
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: off the court intentionally. It makes us want more. That's

540
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: why I feel like this docu series is so right

541
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: on time, obviously, but so important because we want to

542
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: know all we can know. We want to know everything.

543
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: If he could have done a last dance, you know,

544
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: in the way in which Jordan did Last Dance, it

545
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: would be just as big, it would be just as revolutionary,

546
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: it would be it would be really defining because no

547
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: one knew, and no one to this day can really

548
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: say definitely what his relationship was with his mother, what

549
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: his relationship was with his wife, what his relationship really

550
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,479
Speaker 1: was with his teammates, if he really even really liked

551
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: all of them that he had. Why did he and

552
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: Jack really break up?

553
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: I have so many questions, big questions, and those documentaries

554
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: they will be out at some point. People will tell

555
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: each one of those stories differently. I want to know

556
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: everything that you want to know. For what we didn't hear,

557
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: we tried to give you from CNN and a look

558
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: at who this man was and these critical moments of

559
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 3: his life as a young person.

560
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 4: At somebody going through one of.

561
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 3: The biggest news stories that I was brought up with,

562
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 3: that you kind of look back and rescrutinize it and

563
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: scrutinize it again in a different way, and then somebody

564
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 3: who what was their life beyond basketball? That's what we

565
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: tried to do. We tried to bring and I think

566
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: we succeeded in giving people information in parts of his

567
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: life that perhaps they didn't know. It's important for me

568
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 3: that people see these athletes, these public figures and so on,

569
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: outside of their profession as much as we can, to

570
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: see them as fullsome lawed human beings, because that's what

571
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: life is. There's a lot in Kobe's life that you

572
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: could look at and be like, this makes me mad,

573
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: Why what are you you like this? Why didn't you

574
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 3: do X, Y and Z?

575
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 4: Ask those questions.

576
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 3: You know you're not going to get answers to all

577
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 3: of them, but we hope to give him a little

578
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: just I learned so much about him in here that

579
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 3: I didn't know, and some of it had already been

580
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: out there, and we were able to kind of just

581
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: look back and for me, you know, like I'm on

582
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 3: TikTok Instagram reels. You go, you scroll up, you see

583
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: a Kobe trip, you know, little nuggative information or factoid

584
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 3: or a little inspirational thing.

585
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: Like he's very and I was. It was nice to

586
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 4: see beyond just this way.

587
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: We want to remember him and just try to see

588
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 3: this guy that was a kid at one point throwing

589
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 3: rocks off his bicycle in the middle of that to

590
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 3: be the Italian country side.

591
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 4: That's just it's just super cool.

592
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: I think he's amazing, and I think his family, his

593
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 3: parents deserve a lot of credit and worked really hard

594
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: to bring this guy where he was where he eventually,

595
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 3: and I think his wife has done an amazing job

596
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 3: securing and protecting his legacy beyond. And so I'm eager

597
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: to see these other works that will come out at

598
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 3: some point that delve into different parts of his life.

599
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 3: But I hope in the meantime people enjoy what we

600
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: what we offered them.

601
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 1: It's perfect, it's great. Haven't you seen It's amazing. I'm

602
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: gonna say it. I haven't seen it. It's already amazing.

603
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: Anyone who loves Kobe is going to love.

604
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 4: This and please when you are like, just text me.

605
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: I'm I'm on a time because twenty seven forty seven, Yeah,

606
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: get it.

607
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: I get it. I was like, Okay, so then why

608
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: y'all do that?

609
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I needed a tight shot of No, it's going

610
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: to be amazing. I won't even be so granular. I

611
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: think it's I think it's important that these stories about

612
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 1: our legends that have unified us. To your point, when

613
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: he died, it was global. It was a global loss.

614
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: It wasn't a Los Angeles loss. Although living in the

615
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: city covering the story at the time, there was a

616
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: true darkness over the city. It felt eerily quiet. Yeah,

617
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: And every morning I'd get up and go to work

618
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: at Sports Center, and I was at La Live, which

619
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: is across the street from what I like to still

620
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: call Staples, but some people like to call it Crypto,

621
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: and so I the people dropping their memorials, Oh my god,

622
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: I had to be at work at four am or am.

623
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 4: My god, people were pulled up in pork.

624
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, and it felt very special because

625
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: it was the city that he grew up in and

626
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: we had watched him be a silly young guy on

627
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: the court to a real leader.

628
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 4: That thing about him is you I know. For me,

629
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 4: it's like you grow up with people.

630
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: We grew up with him.

631
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 4: I feel like you know them.

632
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 3: Yet I feel the same way about Serena. When we

633
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 3: did that, I felt like I I have grown up

634
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: with her and knew her. With the braids and with

635
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 3: people saying all things that I watched her push back

636
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: and I felt I really felt a different type.

637
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 4: Of connection with her. She's my She's my Kobe, like I'm.

638
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: Oh, really, I love her a lot too, though I

639
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: love her a lot. My last thought and then I'll

640
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 1: let you go. Isn't it interesting interesting that the people

641
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: that we admire most admire or and or like or

642
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: seem to be goats have such mystery to them. There's

643
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: so much mystery to them. There's mystery to Jordan's Serena, Kobe,

644
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: Tom Brady. I'll go down there with Tiger Woods, like

645
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: we don't know anything about them, but the fact that

646
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: what they show us and they give us that and

647
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: it's so intentional, it's.

648
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 3: Because it's it really does pour out onto whatever the court.

649
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: Serena shows you who she is. She is one herself

650
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 3: on the tennis, this ball and exactly I'm angry today,

651
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 3: you gotta know. Yeah, And Kobe, I think black mom,

652
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: but that was him saying, I'm this is who I

653
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 3: am right now, going to give it.

654
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 4: All to you, Tiger, all of them.

655
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: And so when it's off the court, we're left our

656
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: own devices, those journalists to figure out.

657
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: To figure it out and read it in between the lines.

658
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: Eric Johnson, Executive producer, Kobe The Making of a Legend

659
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: premiere's Saturday, January twenty fifth on CNN nine pm Eastern

660
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: Standard Time. Thank you so much, Eric, I appreciate you,

661
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Naked Sports written and executive produced

662
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,439
Speaker 1: by me Kerry Champion, produced by Jock Vice Thomas sound

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Speaker 1: Design and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Associate producer Olubu Sayle Shabby.

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Speaker 1: Naked Sports is a part of the Black Effect podcast

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Speaker 1: network in iHeartMedia