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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Hi, everybody the courtroom is

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Speaker 1: on its lunch of recess that gerars have just filed

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Speaker 1: out of the courtroom. And now this is what has

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Speaker 1: happened today. First of all, I don't want to be

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Speaker 1: the one to tell you. I want you to hear

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Speaker 1: it from the judge's mouth himself in our cut seven. Well,

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Speaker 1: the financial evidence was allowed on the issue of motive.

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Speaker 1: This evidence, I find goes beyond motive or is not

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Speaker 1: evidence of motive. And I believe this, as I stated,

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Speaker 1: will be a bridge too far. It does not meet

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Speaker 1: the logical relevant test. I agree with the defense that

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Speaker 1: it would be admissible perhaps if the trial was the

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Speaker 1: trial on the financial theft issues, but not on the murderer.

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Speaker 1: So I grant the motion to exclude this evidence at

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Speaker 1: this time. Okay, what did the judges say? He is

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Speaker 1: saying that the testimony of Curtis Edward Smith aka cousin

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Speaker 1: Eddie about the roadside shooting where Murdog allegedly agreed to

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Speaker 1: have Curtis Edward Smith shoot him in the head so

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Speaker 1: his son, his only surviving son, Buster Murdog could get

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Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars of less insurance. That's not

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Speaker 1: coming in. He ruled it out. Newman has ruled out

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Speaker 1: the roadside shooting evidence got all star panel. But first

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Speaker 1: I want to go to Mark Tate, trial lawyer joining

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Speaker 1: us from this Savannah jurisdiction, not too far from the

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Speaker 1: Colleton County courthouse. You can find him at Taate Lawgroup

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Speaker 1: dot com. I will tell you what he just did.

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Speaker 1: He split the baby. That's what he did. Because there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways the roadside shooting could have come

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Speaker 1: into evidence. For instance, hey, this guy Arnog he is

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Speaker 1: not afraid to pull a gun if it means money

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Speaker 1: in his pocket. That's what he did on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road with cousin Eddie, and that's what prosecutors

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Speaker 1: are saying he did to his wife and son. That's

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Speaker 1: how I would have tried to get it in. Forget

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Speaker 1: the financial motive. It is copycat same thing he had

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Speaker 1: done he did to his wife and son. That's how

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Speaker 1: I would have argued it, no matter who argued it

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Speaker 1: till they're blue in the face. I don't think Newman

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Speaker 1: was going to let it in. Ever. He's splitting the baby.

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Speaker 1: He let in the financial testimony, and now he's excluding

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Speaker 1: something he's balancing out the scales. What do you think.

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Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right, and Nancy, and you know,

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Speaker 1: Judge Newman, I think has really done a very good

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Speaker 1: job in the case and allowing it evidence that's appropriate

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Speaker 1: to show what the prosecution's argument is with regard to motive,

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Speaker 1: even though they don't have to prove a motive for murder.

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Speaker 1: This whole financial pressure evidence that they want to put

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Speaker 1: on it's pretty lock solid. The evidence is pretty clear

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Speaker 1: that Murdoll wasn't a lot of financial trouble, and then

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Speaker 1: they used that to essentially bootstrap their theory that he

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Speaker 1: was going to try to do this horrible thing to

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Speaker 1: gain sympathy, which is a depraved mind to think in

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Speaker 1: that fashion. But regardless of that, when we start talking

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Speaker 1: about that we're going to get cousin Eddie to kill

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Speaker 1: us so that our boy surviving child can get ten

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Speaker 1: million dollars in life insurance, I think that that the

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Speaker 1: judge is right about that. I don't think that it

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Speaker 1: shows motive. I'm not saying it shows motive tape. Nobody's

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Speaker 1: saying that shows a motive for a murder. That's not

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Speaker 1: motive for murder because it happened after the murder, so

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Speaker 1: it can't be motive for murder, but it does show

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Speaker 1: frame of mind, course of conduct, a pattern, an m

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Speaker 1: O motives, OPERENDI method of operation. Because when murdog is

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Speaker 1: in a jam, what does he do? He pulls a gun?

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Speaker 1: And I am not buying that total b s about

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Speaker 1: oh I wanted to leave money to my son. I'm

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Speaker 1: not buying that. I don't believe that if he wanted

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Speaker 1: money for his children, he wouldn't have done any of

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Speaker 1: the stuff that he did. I think this was a

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Speaker 1: hair brained idea to throw blame off of him in

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Speaker 1: the double murder and make it look like, hey, the

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Speaker 1: killer came after me. I didn't recognize him. I was

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Speaker 1: on the side of the road changing attire. He shot

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Speaker 1: me in the head. Because if they want him dead

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Speaker 1: for insurance money, cousin Eddie would have pulled the trigger

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Speaker 1: a second time. Right now. I agree with you that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't the whole getting some money thing, but I

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Speaker 1: think that the prosecution argument, I think it fails. I

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Speaker 1: think Newman did the right thing because he doesn't want

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Speaker 1: to get reversed on something like this. The evidence has

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Speaker 1: come in potentially, why he acted this way and now

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Speaker 1: to bring in more it risks reversal. And we know

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Speaker 1: this that no matter what happens in this trial that

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Speaker 1: when or if there is a conviction, then Murdoch's going

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Speaker 1: to prison for all of his financial crimes as well.

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Speaker 1: And he has nothing but time to be courthouse lawyer

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Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. And there's going to

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Speaker 1: be appeals based on inadequate assistance of counsel. There's going

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Speaker 1: to be every single fodeniary question appeal as well. I

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Speaker 1: think just agree to because Chris McDonough joining me, former

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Speaker 1: homicide detective for many many years, Director at the Cold

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Speaker 1: Case Foundation, host of the Interview Room on YouTube. You

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Speaker 1: can find him at Cold Case Foundation dot org. Chris,

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Speaker 1: did you hear what Mark Tate just said? Don't bother

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Speaker 1: an answer. I know that you did. If this guy

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Speaker 1: Murdoch goes the way on theft, and even if it's

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Speaker 1: eight million dollars a theft, you know darn well when

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Speaker 1: the jail gets full of murderers and rapists and child

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Speaker 1: molesters and drug lords, he is gonna go behind bars.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna help people get their ged, He's gonna find

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Speaker 1: religion he's gonna teach classes, he's gonna do everything right,

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Speaker 1: and he will get out early. That's what's going to

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Speaker 1: happen if he's convicted only on financial crimes. How many

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Speaker 1: times McDonough have you seen a POC technical legal term

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Speaker 1: walk out of jail? Early? A million? Maybe? Well, Nancy

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Speaker 1: one thousand sent correct your analogy. I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: In California just let seven thousand out recently, so that

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Speaker 1: tells you your point is right on target, and I

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Speaker 1: agree with you. I think the judge cut the baby

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Speaker 1: in half here today, leveled the scales of justice and

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Speaker 1: gave the defense a win on that particular issue. Actually,

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Speaker 1: if he had to let one or the other into

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Speaker 1: evidence and exclude the other, I think the financial motive

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Speaker 1: may have even been stronger. I got to think that

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Speaker 1: went through. But bottom line, for those of you just

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Speaker 1: joining us, Newman dropped a bomb on us today. He excluded,

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Speaker 1: did not allow in the evidence, the admitted evidence that

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Speaker 1: cousin Eddie Curtis Edward Smith, long thought to be Mardog's

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Speaker 1: dope supplier, that he shot him on the side of

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Speaker 1: the road in a financial scheme. A jury will never

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Speaker 1: hear it. Okay, let's take a look at what they

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Speaker 1: did here, Christine, could you just kick it off with

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Speaker 1: cut three. We were afraid, We didn't know what was

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Speaker 1: going on. My family was scared. I was scared for

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Speaker 1: Elick Buster. I felt like they needed protection. I think

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Speaker 1: everybody was afraid. And Eli didn't seem to be afraid.

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Speaker 1: Man talk about a pregnant pause. I thought she'd quit talking,

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Speaker 1: but her words were I think everybody was afraid. Long pause.

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Speaker 1: And Alex did not seem to be afraid. Why because

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Speaker 1: he knew no one else was in danger. Because he's

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Speaker 1: the killer. That's why he was not afraid. He knew

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Speaker 1: who the killer was. Sees him every time he shaves

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Speaker 1: in the morning, every time he looks in the mirror.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't afraid. Guys, thank you for being with us

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Speaker 1: the juries on a lunch break right now, we're trying

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Speaker 1: to cram in as much as we can to catch

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Speaker 1: you up with what all has been going on since

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Speaker 1: we last spoke. This is Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation in

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Speaker 1: series six one eleven and what a panel of stars.

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Speaker 1: Let me go right now to start her own right,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold renounced psychiatrist joining us oide of the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Did you

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Speaker 1: hear that this woman was in tears, afraid her sister

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Speaker 1: had been gunned down in the dog shed, her nephew

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Speaker 1: had been gunned down, brutally gunned down. It's like someone's

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Speaker 1: taken out hits on the family. She's scared, silly, she's

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Speaker 1: sick with fear that the other nephew, Buster is going

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Speaker 1: to be murdered. But Guessie was not afraid at all.

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Speaker 1: Alex murdaged doctor Angie and Nancy. I believe. So the

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Speaker 1: whole time, I'm thinking about what is the jury going

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Speaker 1: to remember about all of this? The jury is going

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Speaker 1: to remember that pregnant pause, aren't they. So whatever whatever

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Speaker 1: is being left out, whatever baby is being cut out,

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Speaker 1: cut in half, the jury is going to remember the

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Speaker 1: pregnant pause and the tears that she was shedding. That

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Speaker 1: was so powerful. That was such a powerful testimony that

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Speaker 1: she made today. And you know what else I like

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Speaker 1: about this witness. Let me go back to Mark Tate.

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Speaker 1: He's a veteran trial lawyer. I'm going to try and

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Speaker 1: mirror a little bit of what doctor Angela Arnold just

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Speaker 1: said about this witness. You could not have hired an

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Speaker 1: actress to portray what she portrayed on the stand. And no,

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Speaker 1: she was not a drama queen. There was no wailing

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Speaker 1: and crying and getting dizzy, And no, she was perfectly

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Speaker 1: calm and poised. She cried, she tried to conceal her tears.

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Speaker 1: She wasn't putting on a show, at least it didn't

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Speaker 1: seem like she was. She's very believable. She had a

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Speaker 1: quiet dignity about her. I thought, yeah, I thought she

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Speaker 1: was an excellent witness, maybe after the I guess maybe

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Speaker 1: the sled officer we heard. I think she was a

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Speaker 1: fantastic witness, and I think she's devastating. And I think

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Speaker 1: the point of who's scared about what's happening with this family,

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Speaker 1: and that Alec seemed like he was okay from her estimation,

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Speaker 1: I think that's something that's going to really really come

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Speaker 1: home with the jury and when they're deliberating, And that

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Speaker 1: to me is something that would be very worrisome if

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Speaker 1: I was defending Alec Murdoch, I wouldn't like there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things about defending this case that seemed very,

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Speaker 1: very very difficult. And when you're trying a case like

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Speaker 1: our Polian is trying, you really have to try to

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Speaker 1: take it one bite at a time, because you know,

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Speaker 1: the way you eat an elephant, you got to start

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Speaker 1: one bite at a time. And he's got an elephant here.

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Speaker 1: I've never really thought about it that way, about eating

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Speaker 1: an elephant and in danger species. But okay, I thought

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Speaker 1: you were going to say this witness, this is Maggie's sister.

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Speaker 1: We've heard I've heard a lot online whereas Maggie's family, Well,

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Speaker 1: this sister was set to testify, and I believe she's

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Speaker 1: been kept kept She did stay out of court during

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Speaker 1: the other testimony, whether she was forced to or not.

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Speaker 1: But she reminded me in some ways of the caregiver

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Speaker 1: for Libby Murdoch, Alex Murdock's mother, who was afraid, she

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Speaker 1: broke down and quite on the stand because she thought

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Speaker 1: she was going to lose her job. And that would

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Speaker 1: have been Michelle Shelley Smith, who I thought was an

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Speaker 1: incredible witness and very very believable. Guys, this witness, I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you, this woman is awesome. I want you to

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Speaker 1: hear more of what Maggie's sister Marian Proctor says on

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Speaker 1: the stand Take a list an hour cut one. Did

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Speaker 1: you have any conversation with Alec about what had happened?

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Speaker 1: I didn't talk to Ella a lot. Elec was just

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Speaker 1: really busy and the whole town was coming to see him,

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Speaker 1: and he was very, very, very torn up. I did

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Speaker 1: at one point ask him if Maggie had suffered, and

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Speaker 1: he assured me that she did not. Now I don't

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Speaker 1: no that I think that's true. And I asked him

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Speaker 1: Paul had suffered, and he said no. And then later

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Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, Alec, do you have any

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Speaker 1: idea who's done this? I said, we have got to

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Speaker 1: find out who's tie who could do this, And he

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Speaker 1: said that he did not know who it was, but

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Speaker 1: he felt like whoever did it had thought about it

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Speaker 1: for a really long time. I just didn't know what

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Speaker 1: that meant. Straight out to doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist,

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Speaker 1: medical examiner, former detective, and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Dupre, thank you for being with us. This is

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Speaker 1: your neck of the woods, doctor Dupre, joining us from

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Speaker 1: South Carolina. Doctor Dupree, did you hear that, Nah, she

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Speaker 1: didn't feel anything. Really, how would he have known that?

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Speaker 1: Because that one question, to this day will drive me

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Speaker 1: to distraction. I wonder did my fiance say know what

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Speaker 1: was happening to him when he was shot five times?

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Speaker 1: What did he feel? Was it so quick? He felt nothing?

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Speaker 1: But the awful truth is I think he did feel

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Speaker 1: a lot of it, and I think he suffered. But

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Speaker 1: here murder August say, Nash, you didn't feel anything? What? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: Doesn't that say a lot? I mean, you want to

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Speaker 1: tell the loved ones that they didn't feel anything. But

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Speaker 1: he says it apparently in such a flippant way, and

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Speaker 1: it makes you wonder. In addition, he says that somebody

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Speaker 1: thought about this for a long time. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: alex Or allegedly did think about this for a long

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Speaker 1: time because I think it was planned, and I think

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Speaker 1: that you can see that in a lot of his testimony.

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Speaker 1: You know, another thing that he said repeatedly is that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to clear Paul's name. Okay, Paul's already dead. Translation,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to pay out a big fat settlement

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Speaker 1: to Mallory Beach's family. That's another thing that was preoccupying

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Speaker 1: his mind after the murders of his wife and side

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Speaker 1: Take a lesson hour cut too and the days and

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Speaker 1: weeks following Maggie and Paul's murder, did alec I ever

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Speaker 1: say anything about the boat case? We would talk about

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Speaker 1: the boat case, and he was very intent on clearing

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Speaker 1: Paul's name. What did he say? He said that msnber

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Speaker 1: number one goal was clearing Paul's name. And I thought

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Speaker 1: that was so strange because my number one goal was

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Speaker 1: to find out who killed my sister and Paul. But

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Speaker 1: that wasn't Alex's concern, main concern. I know he, I

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Speaker 1: know who he. I know he must have wanted that too,

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Speaker 1: but it's just I don't know how he could have

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Speaker 1: thought about anything else. And more in that same vein

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Speaker 1: taking us an Hour Cut four, she's further describing murdogs

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Speaker 1: seeming indifference towards finding Maggie and Paul's killer. You're not

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Speaker 1: critical of Alex four warning to clear Paul's name after

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Speaker 1: he was murdered, Dan r. I am not critical about

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Speaker 1: that at all. I think that was his way of

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Speaker 1: honoring Paul after he was gone. I just thought his

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Speaker 1: priorities should have been focusing on finding out who killed

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Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul. And how do you know that wasn't

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Speaker 1: a priority for We never talked about finding the person

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Speaker 1: who could have done it. It was just odd. We

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Speaker 1: were sort of living in fear because we thought this

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Speaker 1: horrible person was out there and we didn't. We were

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Speaker 1: mostly afraid for Alec and Buster, but we didn't know

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Speaker 1: the motive behind the killings. We thought it probably had

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Speaker 1: something to do with boatcase, and we thought that up

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Speaker 1: until September, and then things started to change a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And right then, Christine, she cut that off, right when

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Speaker 1: all the lawyers go ob Jackson, Jackson, stop, stop, stop,

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Speaker 1: because what happened in September was when Alex Murdog arranged

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Speaker 1: to have himself shot by cousin Curtie Curtis Edward Smith

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Speaker 1: on the side of the road. And that is what

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Speaker 1: changed her thinking about who may have murdered her sister

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Speaker 1: and her niece. And another thing, Tate, I want you

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Speaker 1: to listen to this LATINXT bit of sound, because you

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Speaker 1: know what all their talk about happy family. I told you,

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Speaker 1: Dake that if you looked hard enough, you would find

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend, a mistress, a something connected to Alex and

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Speaker 1: Murdock take lest an hour cut five. Was that something

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Speaker 1: that remained in Maggie's mind over the years up until

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Speaker 1: she would know that? I think that if I asked

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Speaker 1: her that question, she could express an answer to that, Yes, sir,

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Speaker 1: what is the answer to that it was an affair

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Speaker 1: that happened, or Maggie thought it was an affair that

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Speaker 1: happened many years ago? They were able to resolve the issues,

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Speaker 1: but Maggie still brought it up as recently as when

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Speaker 1: a year ago she did not think anything was going on.

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Speaker 1: She just it still bothered her, all right. Yes, during

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Speaker 1: when that had been occurred, did she make Alec leave

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Speaker 1: the household for a period of time? She did crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace? Was that something that remained in

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Speaker 1: Maggie's mind over the years up until she would know that?

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Speaker 1: I think that if I asked her that question, she

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Speaker 1: could express an answer to that, Yes, sir, what is

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Speaker 1: the answer to that it was an affair that happened

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Speaker 1: or Maggie thought it was an affair that happened many

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Speaker 1: years ago? Um They were able to resolve the issues,

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Speaker 1: but Maggie still brought it up. That was recently as

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Speaker 1: when a year ago. She did not think anything was

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Speaker 1: going on. She just it still bothered her. Oh yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: during when that event occurred, that she make Alec leave

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Speaker 1: the household for a period of time. She didn't. Now

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Speaker 1: the problem with this is, I don't believe the jury

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Speaker 1: was present. Hey, I'm hearing in my ear. An Emerson

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Speaker 1: is joining us right now, Senior investigative reporter WCIV, ABC

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Speaker 1: News four. She is also the star of Unsolved South Carolina,

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Speaker 1: the Murdoike Murders, Money and Mystery podcast. And I don't

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Speaker 1: believe the jury was there when Maggie's sister talked about

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Speaker 1: the affair, the infidelity. That's correct, Nancy, Hi, Yes, So

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Speaker 1: that was a movement that you were just playing before

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Speaker 1: where there was an objection. They took the jury out

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Speaker 1: of the room and said, Okay, we got to talk

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Speaker 1: about what's going on, and the judge wanted to hear

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Speaker 1: what was going on. He wanted to hear what Maggie's sister,

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Speaker 1: Marian had to say about this. So they let Marian

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Speaker 1: Proctor speak without the jury present in order for the

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Speaker 1: judge to make a clearer decision about what he wanted

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Speaker 1: to do with some of these issues that were coming up,

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Speaker 1: one of which was this alleged affair that Alec was

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Speaker 1: having fifteen years ago. That was the first thing that

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Speaker 1: he was sort of looking at whether or not he

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Speaker 1: would be allowing that testimony. He decided, no, that was

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Speaker 1: not going to go in front of the jury. It

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Speaker 1: was what's passed was passed, and that was just too

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Speaker 1: far out of the realm for Helm. But there was

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Speaker 1: the roadside shooting, of course, because she was talking about

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Speaker 1: leading up to September, right, So we just got to

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Speaker 1: that moment again in September when the assisted botched suicide

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Speaker 1: attempt with Addie Smith. All of these revelations were coming

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Speaker 1: to light in September, so the judge decided to move

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Speaker 1: it into today, so we have new information about what's

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Speaker 1: happening with that roadside shooting in and where the testimony

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Speaker 1: went to today. So long story Shore, the jury as

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Speaker 1: it stands right now, is not going to hear about

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Speaker 1: Curtis Edward Smith shooting Murdog at Murdog's request. As it

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Speaker 1: stands right now, that's not going to come in to

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Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold Psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: jurisdiction After all that time it's still bothered Maggie Murdog

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Speaker 1: that Alex cheated on her, sexually cheated on her. And

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Speaker 1: I'm an armchair shrink, but a lot of people would

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Speaker 1: have said, you know what, it happened a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: We have worked through it, we're fine. But I believe

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Speaker 1: it's bothered her up until the time she died because

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Speaker 1: other things triggered her mistrust. And when one thing happens

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Speaker 1: after the next, after the next, you can't help but

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Speaker 1: have that old wound be reopened. Doctor Angie, Well, I

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Speaker 1: completely agree with you, Nancy. First of all, if anybody

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Speaker 1: believes that anyone ever gets over an affair, they they've

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Speaker 1: never dealt with us, Okay, So typically no one ever

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Speaker 1: gets over there they're significant other having an affair, it's

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Speaker 1: it's they cheated on them. It's a it's a level

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Speaker 1: of mistrust, and then that trust has to be brought

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Speaker 1: back into the relationship. So certainly if there are other

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Speaker 1: things going on, and it does sound like she was

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Speaker 1: finding out other things along the way, and so that

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Speaker 1: just it just continues to dig at that hole of

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Speaker 1: mistrust that he that he placed inside of her. So

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Speaker 1: of course it's gonna allegedly allegedly. Yes, we haven't had

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Speaker 1: Murdoch ad minute, and the lady question has not presented herself.

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Speaker 1: So these are Maggie suspicions. I don't know what brought

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Speaker 1: about her suspicion, but she believed it for several years,

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Speaker 1: and you know, and I don't know. I thought it

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Speaker 1: was the one time day or many times? What whether

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Speaker 1: Newman's right about what I was just saying. The question

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Speaker 1: is is Newman? Did Newman make the right decision in

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Speaker 1: excluding evidence of a fifteen year old affair? And what

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Speaker 1: he's got to decide is whether that's going to be

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Speaker 1: something that's potentially so prejudicial as to make it so

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Speaker 1: the jury cannot make an unbiased decision. That is that

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Speaker 1: evidence that is an out of court fact being testified

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Speaker 1: too in court to prove that that happened, to prove

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Speaker 1: the affair happened. Is that going to be something that's

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Speaker 1: going to prejudice this jury so badly against Murdoch that

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Speaker 1: they're going to find him guilty because of reasons other

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Speaker 1: than his guilt. And so Newman decided that a fifteen

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Speaker 1: year old affair that we don't have any evidence in

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Speaker 1: court of other than what this wonderful witness has to

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Speaker 1: say about what she believed the decedent thought. I think

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Speaker 1: that he made the right decision. That's too prejudicial, and

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing that we're layering one weird

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Speaker 1: thing on top of another on this Alec Murdoch guy.

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Speaker 1: And we know this. You know, weird is not a murderer,

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Speaker 1: and there's plenty of evidence that the prosecution has success

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Speaker 1: put on hold on. I don't know that that would

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Speaker 1: hold up to the transitive law of mathematics. Weird does

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Speaker 1: not make a murderer, but a murderer is always weird.

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Speaker 1: So I'll let you put that. All I'm saying. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we don't want to Murdoch has a reason to have

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Speaker 1: an appeal that may be that may result in a

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Speaker 1: reversal of a conviction. And so Newman really wants to

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Speaker 1: make sure that when this prosecution rests, and that after

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Speaker 1: Harpoolian defends this man, and he will as best he

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Speaker 1: possibly can, that when and if there is a conviction,

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Speaker 1: that that conviction stands and that there's not a reversal

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Speaker 1: on some evidentiary thing that Newman got wrong. And so

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Speaker 1: I think that he's weighing, you know, fairly conservatively, and

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Speaker 1: has let in the evidence that supports the prosecution's theory

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Speaker 1: of motive. I think that he's held things out that

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Speaker 1: tend to, arguably from at least from from Harpulian standpoints,

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Speaker 1: going to be unduly prejudicial. And I think he's allowed

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Speaker 1: the prosecution hut on a very strong case once they rest. Okay,

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Speaker 1: can we get back to the testimony answer. The law

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Speaker 1: is really clear to just boil it down very easily.

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Speaker 1: If you've got a bad act that doesn't go to

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Speaker 1: motive course of conduct scheme, that's frame of mind, um

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Speaker 1: monasaw perenda, and plus it's attenuated in time. It's not

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Speaker 1: coming in there bam there fifteen years ago and may

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Speaker 1: have nothing to do with the murders, so it didn't

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Speaker 1: come in. It's really really simple. But I like hearing

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Speaker 1: you throw around all those Latin phrases once in a while,

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Speaker 1: Mark Tate. So I'm going to get back to home.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to make you, Nancy feel more comforted. I

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Speaker 1: feel pretty good. I'm trying, Dan Emerson. You know what

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Speaker 1: I thought was really impactful. It's when the sister Maggie's

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Speaker 1: sister Marian Proctor on the stand, was describing the last

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Speaker 1: time she talked to Maggie as she broke down crying

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Speaker 1: because you explained to everybody what happened. Oh that was

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Speaker 1: so heartbreaking too. We see, first of all, we feel

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Speaker 1: like we're hearing Maggie through Marion as well, because they

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Speaker 1: looked so similar, don't they. They really are two peas

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Speaker 1: and up hide. This is her only sister, her older sister,

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Speaker 1: which I think it's important because that's always a protective role.

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Speaker 1: And so she's on the stand and she's talking like

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Speaker 1: they do all the time, right, two sisters on the phone,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, should I or shouldn't I go? Maggie

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Speaker 1: loves the beach. Maggie wants to say it edis and

428
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: then Marian is like, no, he wants you to come

429
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: go with him, go with him, go see him and

430
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: moselle he's dealing with his dad. And so you hear this,

431
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: this unbelievable regret that comes forth. She starts to cry

432
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: and they pull they tease this part out really and say,

433
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: this is the last time you spoke to her, Yes,

434
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: you encouraged her to go, and she just it just

435
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: killed her and she said, yes, I encouraged Maggie to

436
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: go to Moselle that day, and I think it broke

437
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: everybody's heart in the jury box. And I was watching

438
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: what was going on, you know, Marian Proctor when she

439
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: came in with her husband Bart, she was sitting next

440
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: to the victim's advocate on the prosecution side. She was

441
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: not making eye contact with the family that was sitting

442
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: in the back row. She wasn't looking at John Marvin

443
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: or Liz Murdoch or you know Buster. She was looking

444
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: straight ahead. But boy, when she said that, I saw tears.

445
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: I saw tears across the whole Murdock side. It was

446
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: it was just too much to bear. But I'll tell

447
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: you and Nancy, you know how this case has been

448
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: coming through and we've just been connecting the dots. We've

449
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: been tying together these loose threads, and that's what the

450
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: prosecution's job is to do. And I'm starting to see

451
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: a clear picture of why they were teasing that painful

452
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: emotional part out from Marian Proctor, and that was because

453
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: the prosecution was holding some cards still about what they

454
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: knew that Alec Murdoch was going to say about that

455
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: last Why Maggie was at Moselle. Why Maggie was really

456
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: at Moselle. And so we were learning a little bit

457
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: more about that, and I can't share that way with

458
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: you as well. But as far as Marian Procter, when

459
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: she got up there and did that, boy, that just

460
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: that really brought the house down, there wasn't there wasn't

461
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: a person who didn't feel so sorry for her. Right then? Yeah,

462
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, doctor Angie Arnold joining us. Can you imagine

463
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: the guilt the sister carries around to this day? She

464
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: wrote down crying on the stand because Maggie called Marian

465
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: Proctor and said, well, he wants me to come out

466
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: to Moselle, the Hunting Lodge. I don't want to go.

467
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: I want to stay here. Remember they were living apart.

468
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: But Alex says, you know, we're going to go visit

469
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: his father. His father, mister Randolph, is not doing well.

470
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: He's going to die. So the sister says, you should

471
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: really go, you should go, basically sending her to her death.

472
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: But how could the sister know that The sister had

473
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: no way of knowing that Nancy, the sister never knew

474
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: that she was sending her sister to her death, and

475
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: I hope that she can find some help to get

476
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: over the guilt that she could possibly feel for that.

477
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: I believe her sister thought that she was doing the

478
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: right thing. They were living apart. She wanted to help her.

479
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: She was encouraging her sister and supporting her sister in

480
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: helping her with her marriage, which wasn't very good at

481
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: this point apparently, so she didn't send her to her death.

482
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: She was trying to be a good supportive sister to

483
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: help her sister in a very difficult decision. Guys, a

484
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: lot happening in the courtroom. I want you to listen

485
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: now to what happened when Alex Murdoch was asked about

486
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: that Snapchat video. Remember the damning Snapchat video that Paul

487
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 1: took just minutes before the murders. They were out of

488
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: the kennel and you can hear Alex Murdog's voice in

489
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 1: the background. So he's confronted with a snapchat Oh, can

490
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: you only guess what he said? Take a listen our

491
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: cut eight. There is a video on poles Foaming of

492
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: you and him on the farm that night, and you

493
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: were in katy pants and a dress shirt, you're playing

494
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: with a tree. I don't played with a tree. Yeah,

495
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: I guess there was a tree, sapling or something that

496
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: was had fallen over or bending over and you were

497
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: trying to get it to stand back, stand up. But

498
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: I mean the question, and that is when I met

499
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 1: you that night, you were in shorts and a T shirt.

500
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: At what point and that even did you change clothes?

501
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. You know, it would have been before dinner,

502
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: after dinner, now it would have been, But what time

503
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: of day was that I would have thought that had

504
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: already changed. There's not a time? Is he asking you

505
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: now what time that picture was? Yes, sir, okay, I

506
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: was stap on it because there's so many posts, but

507
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: I want to say it looks to be about the dusk.

508
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: So that again, o'lock, I guess that changed when I

509
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: got back to the house. He is being asked about

510
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: the snapchat video where he's wearing one thing in the

511
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: afternoon and something else after the murders. We learned a

512
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: lot about that from the housekeeper that claims she never

513
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: saw those clothes again. They were disposed of somewhere along

514
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: the way. I love the way he did that out

515
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: to you Chris mcdunnah, joining US former homicide investigator and

516
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: Miami Dade has handled I would say three or four

517
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: hundred homicide investigations. You can find them on the interview room.

518
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah. Did you hear Alex murdock? He said, what now?

519
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: Let me see. That must have been I don't know,

520
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: some time in the afternoon, b s mcdonnah. He's like,

521
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: oh crap. They realize I changed clothes. I mean, did

522
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: you see him acting like he was thinking about it

523
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: and the whole time in his head the wheels are turning.

524
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: They figured that out, didn't they. Yeah, and Nancy san Diego,

525
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 1: by the way, and that this is classic classic deception.

526
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: He all of a sudden finds himself in an AHA

527
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: moment is what we'll call that. And remember a couple

528
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: of things here. This investigative team is slow and steady

529
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: up to this point. They've had a couple of interviews

530
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: with him in the car, and now they've got him

531
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:48,719
Speaker 1: into a controlled environment. And also they realize this is

532
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 1: an experienced trial lawyer who brings a lawyer who has

533
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: assembled a team of lawyers to strategize about this investigation.

534
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: And so I would submit to you. This was one

535
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: of those moments where they had not calculated that Paul

536
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 1: had taken that video early on showing his clothing and

537
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: so notice one thing. He asked a question with a question,

538
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 1: So he answers a question with a question. That is

539
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: one of those moments where you just go okay, that's

540
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: an experienced interviewer who absolutely led him. Write to the

541
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: trough to drink. Guys, let's hear that one more time.

542
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: Now that we've analyzed it a little bit. I can't

543
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: wait to hear what Mark Tate has to say about this.

544
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: No legal terms, no Latin legal terms. Tait, if you

545
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: can control, you're nothing to say. Let's take as it's

546
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: going to be English. It's gonna be very plaining. It's

547
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: gonna help everybody out learn how to deal with the

548
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: problems in the view. Take a listen to our cut

549
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: eight one more time and watch Murdog during this questioning.

550
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 1: There's a video pulse of you and him on the

551
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: farm that night. You were in khaki pants and a

552
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 1: dress shirt. You were playing with a tree. I don't

553
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: played with a tree. Yeah, I guess there was a tree,

554
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,840
Speaker 1: sapling or something that was had fallen over or bending

555
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: over and you were trying to get it stand back,

556
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: stand up. But I mean the question, and that is

557
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: when I met you that night, you were in shorts

558
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 1: and a T shirt. At what point and that even

559
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: did you change clothes? I'm not sure you know, it

560
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,959
Speaker 1: would have been before dinner, after dinner, now it would

561
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: have been at what time of day was that I

562
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: would have thought that had already changed. There's not a time?

563
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: Is he asking you now what time that picture was? Yes?

564
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: I was stap on it because there's so many posts.

565
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: But I want to say it looks to be about

566
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: the dusk, so that again, seven to eight o'clock. I

567
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: guess I changed when I got back to the house. Yeah,

568
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: I guess what time of the day was that. I

569
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: don't remember anything like that, you know, doctor Angie Arnold,

570
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: I've never known of a grown man having so many

571
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: wardrobe changes. I haven't had a single wardrobe change since

572
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: they got up this morning when I when I put

573
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: on my word clothes. So here we've got Murdog having

574
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: a wardrobe change, and darn can't remember that. He can

575
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 1: remember so many other details, but not that I'm telling you, Nancy.

576
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: It's telling I think this man is digging his own grave.

577
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: It's people can see the way he's acting in this,

578
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: in all of this, can't they? And the changing of

579
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: the clothes, and now the clothes are missing and oops,

580
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: I don't remember I mean, did he have a stroke

581
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: in between changing his clothes? Who doesn't remember these things? Right?

582
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: And Nancy, she's And this is why you never ever

583
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: talk to the police. The police had already decided he

584
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: was going to jail when they started that interview. They

585
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: asked him a hostile question. Take all right, Take, They've

586
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 1: already got a defense team, so you know they don't

587
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: care about Hey, But I'm going right now point it out.

588
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to help your viewers. You're talking about the

589
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: cops having to vision. That's not even what we're talking about.

590
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: We're talking about men. Point is exactly that he dug

591
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: his own grave. So don't dig your own grave. Don't

592
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: talk to the police. They're not there to help you.

593
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: They're there to lock you up. This is Crime Stories

594
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: on Fox Nation. This is not an infomercial. No matter

595
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: how many cases you have won, for bad guys to

596
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: come and hire you, you don't need to tell all

597
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: the bad guys out there don't talk to the cops.

598
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: You think they don't already know that. But yeah, okay, Danna,

599
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: you're right, But I was trying to get out what

600
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: murdog did the little guy who's falsely as well, That

601
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: would not be Nancy. Look as I can tell, go ahead,

602
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 1: please help me out, Dancy. Nancy. Okay. So look back

603
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: at that interview and look at his posture, look at

604
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: his body language again. He is in a very defensive posture.

605
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: His arms are folded across his lap, and they're they're

606
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: almost always folded across his lap, except a few times

607
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: he will reach and try to open up a little

608
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 1: bit and grab his knees. But the vast majority of

609
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 1: that entire interview he is basically defending himself with those

610
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 1: folded arms. That says a lot, you know, And mcdonnah

611
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: is this mcdonnah talking. I was just going to go

612
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: to you and Angie because I haven't really thought this

613
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: through clearly, and I know you and Angie accused me

614
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 1: of projecting, and you're right, but you know, a lot,

615
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: a lot after my fiance's murder was blurish. It's a blur,

616
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 1: but my movements up until that moment and this was

617
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: decades ago, up until the moment I learned he had

618
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: been shot dead. I remember crystal clear exactly what happened.

619
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: I came out of a statistics exam. It was dark

620
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: inside the building, it was light outside when I opened

621
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,160
Speaker 1: the doors. I walked across campus carrying my books. I

622
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: stopped at a pay phone to call my job in

623
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: the library and tell them I was late on the

624
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: exam and I was getting there. I remember it all

625
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: very clearly. I remember the phone booth. But yet Murdo

626
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: can't remember anything that happened Chris McDonough leading up to

627
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: the murders. Yeah, and Nancy, I mean, trauma will slow

628
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: everything down, and those moments will be ingrained in your

629
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: memory for a lifetime. You know what, We've not heard

630
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: one sentence out of his mouth yet, and that's who

631
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 1: murdered my family? Not one time through the entire process here.

632
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: I've never had a victim's family not ask me who

633
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: murdered their loved one. And I saw that telling very

634
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 1: telling quickly, And as he's starting to part a lot

635
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 1: of information by asking questions on top of questions, Yeah,

636
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: you know what, what about that? Tate? Mark Tate joining

637
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: me from the Tate log group in the Savannah Jurisdiction

638
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: Mark he never once says, hey, instead of worrying about

639
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: me changing clothes, who the h E double l shut

640
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 1: my wife and my son. I never see any of that. Man.

641
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: I'd be laying on the courthouse steps screaming that I

642
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 1: wanted justice. He never does a darned thing. Yeah, never, No,

643
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: You're exactly right, and that's why he was a terrible

644
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 1: witness against himself. And let me tell you we've seen

645
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 1: another instance right here in Georgia when a lawyer hired

646
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: his wife murder. If you remember Fred Tokars back a

647
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 1: few years back, had his wife shot guns sadly and

648
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: he yeah, Sarah and us shot right in front of

649
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: their children, and yes, and he waved the funeral. It

650
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: was awful, and so tears can be lie obviously. But yeah,

651
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: Murdoch did not help himself in this interview. And I

652
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: know you don't like it. I know you don't like it,

653
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: but Nancy, there was no defending himself in that interview.

654
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: The only defense to being interviewed interview. That's the same

655
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: as the Okay, I want you to hear another thing.

656
00:43:55,239 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog says when he is confronted with snapchat video

657
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: his son politic another video that was taken that day.

658
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut ten. If you confronted

659
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 1: him with what you're about asking prior to this, no,

660
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 1: I had not the question you had just asked him,

661
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: did that deal with whether he went down to the

662
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: kennels or not after supper? Correct? And he said he

663
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 1: had not. He had not, that he was hurt in

664
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: the background, and you were hurt in the background, and

665
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: I was prior to none. Yeah, I heard Rogan Gibson

666
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: asked me if I was up there. He said he

667
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: thought it was me? Was you and at nine? No,

668
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: sir not. If my times are right, can anythink of Coo?

669
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: I have no idea. And Roban has been around your

670
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: family for pretty much all his life. Absolutely, and he

671
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: recognizes your voice and you have a distinct voice. You

672
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: think of anybody else then else the voice somewhere the

673
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: wars that he may have us. So this is actually

674
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: the video. Hey, Christine, could you run that video, the

675
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: video that Paul took, not the snapchat, the video he

676
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: took at the kennels. Can you play it with sound? Christine?

677
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 1: Get it? Get that quick. Guess quick the post. Kay,

678
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: ain't got burns now ba hey blaa, it's a guinea.

679
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 1: There's a chicken. Come I cash cash quick Crime stories

680
00:46:39,560 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, get it, get that quick cash quick ship. Okay,

681
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: Hey Burdens, now, hey, it's a guinea. There's a chicken.

682
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: Come quick. Up. You are seeing and hearing the video

683
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: and you hear that third voice in the background. I've

684
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: heard it before where you could hear it even more loudly.

685
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: Now in the last sound that we played for you,

686
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: Murdoch is denying it's his voice in the kennel video

687
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: during a police questioning straight out to Ann Emerson, senior

688
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: investigative reporter joining us from wc I V ABC an,

689
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,840
Speaker 1: what was the jury do they when they see Murdock

690
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 1: denying that was him? Well, they're paying a lot of attention.

691
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: They're paying a lot of attention. And you know, the

692
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: other important thing to note in this is that this

693
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: the agent when he is questioning him in August, has

694
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: not actually seen this video. This is what Rogan Gibson,

695
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 1: the friend of Paul, had actually pulled the had alerted

696
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: SLED agents that he had been speaking with Paul just

697
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: before these murders, met them at a corner store nearby

698
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: soon as soon as he possibly could after the murders

699
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 1: the day after, to tell them about this audio and

700
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: video that he heard Alec Murdoch's voice on on this video,

701
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: So that is what they're hearing about. So you you

702
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 1: absolutely saw they were leaning in, they were listening, you know,

703
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: some of the some of the tape from Alec about

704
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: you know, when he's in that room talking on this

705
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: third sled interview is hard to hear sometimes, so on

706
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 1: top of that, you know, the at one the judges like,

707
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 1: please turn it up. We need to be able to

708
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: hear every single thing that's coming out of his mouth

709
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: right now. So they literally turn up the video and

710
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: the and the jury is listening to everything that's being

711
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,840
Speaker 1: set and not set at that point. And one of

712
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: the things he said, of course, was I don't yeah,

713
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 1: I don't know about this, Like no, what did he

714
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: say exactly? He said, no, no, no, I don't think

715
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,040
Speaker 1: that's me. I don't think that's me. It's like, what,

716
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 1: but we we just had how many of your closest friends,

717
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: including Paul's friends, including uh, your Marian's husband, your brother

718
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: in law, they've all said that it's you, Alec, that

719
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: this is your voice on the video, you know. So

720
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 1: we're jumping in the timeline a little bit because we

721
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: know at that point that agent hasn't actually seen this video,

722
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 1: but we've already he's already heard from Rogan that this

723
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: is Alex Voyson. He's taking his word at it, and

724
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: he's asking Alec about it. So it's fascinating because this

725
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,839
Speaker 1: is still what like seven months before actually were able

726
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: to unlock Paul's phone and confirm what Rogan said and

727
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: then be able to compare it with what Alex said

728
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: in this interview in August of twenty twenty one. Guys

729
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: who got more of what Alex told Flats howth Carolina

730
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Division. Now Here he is telling another whopper

731
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: that he was at his mother's house up to an

732
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: hour the night of the murders. Take a listen to

733
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: our cut nine Hollong, could you say you reach your laws?

734
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 1: Had you talked to Shelley Smith at this point she

735
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: had been interviewed, Jess, I had not spoken Winter by

736
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: that time. Hey, Christine, do you mind re racking that?

737
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: I want to hear it again? He says it right

738
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: up front, they question, how long would you say you

739
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: were at your mom's He says forty five minutes an hour.

740
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 1: Let's hear that one more time. Christine plays hellong, could

741
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: you say your laws? Had you talked to Shelley Smith

742
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 1: at this point she had been interviewed, Jess, I had

743
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: not spoke the winter by that time, So this is

744
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,360
Speaker 1: significant to me. Chris McDonough and I truly believe, having

745
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: tried so many cases, as you've investigated so many cases,

746
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: that from each piece of evidence, very often you can

747
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: end up proving a lot. So not only do we

748
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: see him saying that he was at his mom's house

749
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: up to an hour, you have to question why why

750
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: would he lie about that? Because he already knew the

751
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: timeline he needed to be at his mom's house at

752
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 1: the time of the murders. So he is looking at

753
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: Slad right in the face and lying the motive from

754
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 1: I mean, there's one thing, Oh, I'm just mistaken, but

755
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: he knew, he knew how long he had been there,

756
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: and he lied about it. And the jury has got

757
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: to ask why did he lie about how long it

758
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: was at his mom's Yeah, and also they have to

759
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: ask why did he try to intimidate that witness to

760
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: change her story about that timeline, because he knew exactly

761
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: what you're saying, Nancy. He knew he had to tie

762
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: him or separate himself a little bit further from that

763
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 1: crime scene that evening, and this is one of the

764
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: ways to do it. Unfortunately for him is some of

765
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: the vehicle data that came back on the suburban tied

766
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: that time frame a little bit tighter, which put him

767
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: into a precarious situation. Her. Guys, we are trying to

768
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: take your questions and your ideas as many as we can.

769
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: Karen Mitchell asks, why are they allowing the roadside shooting?

770
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,760
Speaker 1: Judge Newman just ruled the roadside shooting is not allowed

771
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: in that it's too gosh, I would say, prejudicial. He

772
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: is not going to let the jury hear about it

773
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: because it doesn't go to motive. I think it should

774
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: have been introduced to show course of conduct and modus operandi.

775
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: In other words, when he's in a jam, he'll pull

776
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: a gun, but it's not going to be allowed because

777
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 1: the judge thinks it's too prejudicial. Here's a good one.

778
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: Why wasn't glorious Sadderfield exhumed before the trial. I'll take

779
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: a stab at that, because the glorious Saderfield allegations as

780
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 1: to how she died would not bear on the finding

781
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: of guilt or innocence in this case. What about it,

782
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: Mark Tate? Why wasn't Saderfield exhumed and time for this testimony?

783
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,439
Speaker 1: You know, obviously that's a whole brand new undertaking that's

784
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: being just now started, given what we apparently have learned

785
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,240
Speaker 1: about the propensive this family somehow who resort to violence

786
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 1: to solve financial problems. And I believe that we can

787
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: recall that the sadder Field matter devolved into and where

788
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 1: we found out about some of the money that that

789
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: Murdoch was able to secret away to himself as a

790
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: result of that, as a result of that passing, and

791
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: so why well, I'm not sure that anything that's going

792
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 1: to come out of demonstrating a different cause of death

793
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,879
Speaker 1: is going to wind up being admissible, especially in front

794
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: of Judge Newman, who's trying a very careful case. Yeah, yeah,

795
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean that would go to another potential murder. Sadder

796
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 1: Fields did only came into financial for a financial motive,

797
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 1: not to suggest that Murdoch, who was not there at

798
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: the home when Miss Saderfield fell down the steps. We've

799
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: been told that would absolutely be too prejudicial. That cannot

800
00:54:56,200 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: allow that in Okay, here's another one, why not kill Buster?

801
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 1: This is from Barbara Powell. The other one from Susan Paget.

802
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,439
Speaker 1: Barbara Powell knows why not kill Buster? Do you think

803
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: it us in on the murders? No? I do not

804
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: think Buster was in on these murders. And I'd like

805
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: to point out, as Kelly and Christina reminding me my ear,

806
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 1: when the sister Marian Productor got up off the stand,

807
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 1: she went and hugged Buster. That alone tells me she

808
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 1: doesn't think he was involved. But no, I don't think

809
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 1: Buster was involved. Anybody want to take a crack at that?

810
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 1: What about it? Straight out to you an Emerson Buster

811
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,479
Speaker 1: involved in the murders? In no way, no way. This

812
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 1: is absolutely um. This is getting tied to the fatal

813
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,600
Speaker 1: boat crash. That's what we keep on hearing about. That

814
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: is what the state is looking at. As far as

815
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: the evidence that we've been hearing about over and over again. Yeah,

816
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: was about the threats to Paul in the boat crash.

817
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: The lawsuits tied to the boat crash. That all goes

818
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 1: back to Paul. In addition, I mean just from the

819
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: logical steps of what Buster was doing in his life

820
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: at that time. We just heard that. Honestly, Buster didn't

821
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: really come to the farm. You didn't have that love

822
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: of the farm like Paul did. That would have been

823
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: a leap for him to just even be there. He

824
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: was saying, I've got another part of sound. Carolina. Annie

825
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: yes exclamation asked why would CSI not take samples from

826
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 1: the water puddles? Now, you know, the hoes and the

827
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,359
Speaker 1: water puddles are taking on a whole new significance, suggesting

828
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: that Marlov tried to clean up the scene or even himself.

829
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: We saw that angle emerging yesterday. To you, Chris McDonough,

830
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's possible to take samples from

831
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: water puddles. I think CSI was taking actual blood samples,

832
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: and we're trying to secure the crime scene. What do

833
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 1: you think of taking samples from water puddles? Well, you know, Nancy,

834
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: that's a great question from your viewer. The challenge with

835
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: that is, obviously, is the evidence starts to become problematic

836
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: whenever there's water, snow, anything like that, because it's an

837
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 1: outdoor scene. One of the interesting things that I found

838
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: was the fact that when he makes a comment going

839
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: over and he rolls Paul over and the phone falls out.

840
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,440
Speaker 1: I've always had a question about why he didn't go

841
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: roll Maggie over. He left. He left her just in

842
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: the position she was in, and that kind of made

843
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: me think about, well, is there some type of evidence

844
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 1: to your viewers question that he was also, you know,

845
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: wanting to make sure he didn't contaminate or cross contaminate

846
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: himself onto her, which kind of made it look a

847
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 1: little bit more like a two shooter scenario. Hey, guys,

848
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:10,959
Speaker 1: here's a really good one from Oran. If Murdock touched

849
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: the bodies, wouldn't there be blood on the car door

850
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: handle and his phone straight out to doctor Dupree. Doctor Dupree,

851
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: what about it, Nancy, Yes, absolutely you would think that.

852
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: But remember he is really pretty smart. There was blood

853
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: on the steering wheel. Perhaps he thought about they're not

854
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: being blood on the door handle and wiped it off

855
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: or used something else to open that door handle, but

856
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 1: he couldn't wipe off all of the blood on the

857
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: steering wheel, and that was found there. Yeah, you know,

858
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: I'm getting p Yeah, you're right. It's also inconsistent that

859
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 1: there's there's blood on the steering wheel but not on

860
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: the car door handle, or it is onto something right there.

861
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:55,600
Speaker 1: Hey from Tally checked her. What will happen if Murdock's

862
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: found not guilty? Will there be further investigation into the case. No,

863
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: it's over double jeopardy. It can never be tried again.

864
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: Here's one more thing. Let me throw this to you.

865
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: And do you believe the state is trying I mean,

866
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: the defense is trying to suggest Paul shot himself. No,

867
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think that they're going to

868
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: be looking for that second third shooter that those people

869
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: the empty chair theory. That's where I think they're going

870
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: with it. I know what you're talking about, though, because

871
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 1: they were talking about whether or not the way he

872
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 1: was shot, you know, when they were going on and

873
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: on about it. I could be wrong, but I would

874
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: be very surprised if they wanted to go there because

875
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 1: it is hard for a lot of people to conceive

876
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: how he would have actually gotten that shot. Basically, So

877
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: I think that they're going And also they didn't find

878
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: that gun underneath them when the cops said that they

879
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: rolled Paul up because they disturbed the crime scene to

880
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: be looking to see if they found a gun, and

881
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 1: there wasn't a gun there obviously, But no, I don't

882
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: think they're going to be doing that necessarily. I think

883
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: they're going for that empty chair, that second shooter, those

884
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: people that had come in, and why aren't we becase

885
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 1: very critically and from Diane, she wants to know and Emerson,

886
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: what does the different colored badges mean in the courtroom?

887
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: Very quickly. We have different colored badges. I have a

888
01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: purple one that means I'm media. They have new badges

889
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: every day for the people that are coming into the

890
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: public gallery, which was packed today. They did yellow badges

891
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: for them. So every day they come up with different

892
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 1: bachelors to make sure that they're able to go through. Guys,

893
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna go back in the courtroom very quickly. Peggy

894
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: Strickland asked, did he take a lie detector? Think O

895
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 1: J He took a lie detector and he failed. Lie

896
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: detectors don't come into criminal cases unless there's a stipulation

897
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: prior to trial that it will come in. In several cases, however,

898
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: they do come in so if there's ever a civil case.

899
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll find out if Murdoch took a lie detector

900
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: that said we're going back in the courtroom. We want

901
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: to be the jury in there. Everybody, thanks for being

902
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,479
Speaker 1: with us today. I'll see you tomorrow at lunch break.