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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Histories, a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the show,

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much for tuning in.

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Speaker 1: Let's hear it for the Man, the myth, the legend,

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Speaker 1: our super producer Max, the soprano Williams. You like that one?

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Speaker 2: You like that one. It's like a soprano saxophone, like

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Speaker 2: high and loud and annoying.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's how we're starting today.

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Speaker 2: Folks.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben my pal nol is on some adventures.

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Speaker 1: We'll be returning soon and in the meantime, we are

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Speaker 1: thrilled to welcome a returning special guest, a longtime partner

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Speaker 1: and podcast Crime with Me, Lauren Vogelbaum. Lauren, thanks for

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Speaker 1: coming back on the show.

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Speaker 3: Hello, thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, the last time you were on Ridiculous History,

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Speaker 1: you and our dear friend June explored how houses can

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Speaker 1: legally be haunted.

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Speaker 3: Yes, physically there's a question, but legally they can absolutely

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Speaker 3: be haunted, which is nuts.

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Speaker 1: I totally took that research and brought it to our

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Speaker 1: friends at the Daily Zeitgeist. Oh and they were like, hey,

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Speaker 1: what's some interesting about your search history? So thank you

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Speaker 1: for letting me crib that anytime. Yes, So I was

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Speaker 1: thinking before we get into today's show, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about this off air. I realized that I have lost

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Speaker 1: track of just how many projects you and I have

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Speaker 1: worked together on over the years.

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Speaker 3: I that is a very good question, because we've been

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Speaker 3: working together for Nilla Loon in our twelve or thirteen years. I.

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Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, I guess that's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think the first stuff that we worked on

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Speaker 3: together was the brain Stuff video series when we did.

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Speaker 1: That, right, wow. And you I can name several of

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Speaker 1: the many things that you have done. You are the

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Speaker 1: head writer and host of brain Stuff, which continues in

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Speaker 1: podcasts form today. Yes, and you are creator and co

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Speaker 1: host of Saver, which is one of my favorite food podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that one's a

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Speaker 3: conversational food show that that I do along with Annie Reese.

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Speaker 3: And yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes we get to go to wacky places and talk

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Speaker 3: to wacky people, but mostly it's just like what is

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Speaker 3: up with artichokes?

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Speaker 2: So I want to jump in here, Lauren. I do

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Speaker 2: actually miss cutting y'all's ads behind the scenes. For about

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Speaker 2: a year. When I first started at iHeart, I cut

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Speaker 2: Annie and Lauren's ad reads and it was a real joy.

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Speaker 2: Producer Andrew Howard always asked me, He's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to do this. I'm like, you know,

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Speaker 2: it actually kind of brains my day. Like, you know,

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Speaker 2: the week they were really busy. I didn't enjoy it

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Speaker 2: as much, but like you know, you kind of bummed down.

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Speaker 2: Let's see what type of high jinks any Lauren are getting.

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Speaker 1: Into over here and what kind of curse words.

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Speaker 2: Lots of curts Worth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I buttoned it up on air most

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Speaker 3: of the time. But but I'd say that other than

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Speaker 3: maybe Holly Fry, I am one of the customist people

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Speaker 3: here at iHeart.

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Speaker 2: And actually, just to get back on again, you said

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Speaker 2: Halley from Everything About You two were like the first

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Speaker 2: two people I worked at at this job. I cut

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Speaker 2: all the generic ads for the company along with the

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Speaker 2: ones for stuff you missed an insta class with Holly Fry.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're going back old days like three years ago.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, as long as you guys, Bud.

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Speaker 3: No, Hey, you've got your stretch and the last three

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Speaker 3: years have been a very long three years, to be fair.

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Speaker 1: That's true. That is true. You feel like they feel

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Speaker 1: like they were longer than they were supposed to be,

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Speaker 1: and we are also currently can't say too much about

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Speaker 1: it yet, folks. Currently, Lauren, you and I are working

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Speaker 1: on Thirteen Days of Halloween. We've also done you do

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Speaker 1: a lot of voice work. We've also both played roles,

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Speaker 1: I think recently on a show called Remus the Bootleg King.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you were. You were the titular Remus, Yes,

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Speaker 3: the bootleg Ging.

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Speaker 1: I have yet again been asked to play an unhinged lunatic.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Max, Thank you for that understanding not.

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Speaker 5: Getting asked to play play all right, Yeah, just wait

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Speaker 5: for my book that's coming out in about like three

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Speaker 5: four years working for Ben Bolan, The Unhinged Lunatic with

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Speaker 5: Oh Hey, there you go Forward by Paul Decant.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, yeah, I got to I got to play

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Speaker 3: Remus's wife and that one. And it's certainly the most

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Speaker 3: times I've ever said daddy in my life. So that's

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Speaker 3: absolutely fine and not weird at all. Now, I'm glad

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Speaker 3: that we recorded that separately. I'm not sure if I

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Speaker 3: could have done it in the same room.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking that I was thinking of the

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Speaker 1: same thing. Honestly, when I learned about that and we

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Speaker 1: speaking to fantastic segue. Yes, we're here to talk about

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Speaker 1: something that I think. It's a story not a lot

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Speaker 1: of people know, and I was. I was kind of

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Speaker 1: surprised when our good pal Tyler Klang brought this up.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, this this is a story that I've talked

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Speaker 3: about on a show that sadly just ended called American Shadows.

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Speaker 1: Oh you talked about this?

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The structure of that show is, you know, like a

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Speaker 3: three act structure, and so we had had a beginning

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Speaker 3: and an epilogue and then a longer part in the middle,

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Speaker 3: and this was one of our beginning parts.

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Speaker 1: Oh nice, We are talking about one of my favorite instruments,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully I'm not alone in this, the saxophone, right

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Speaker 1: are you? Are you? What's your saxophone stays?

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Speaker 3: I'd say that I'm a middling I mean, I like

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Speaker 3: a saxophone. I do not dislike a saxophone. I can't

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Speaker 3: I can't proclaim myself a top tier fan of the saxophone,

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Speaker 3: right right.

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Speaker 2: I feel you.

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Speaker 1: I think that's got some nostalgia for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that generation, because you grew up with uh with

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Speaker 1: saxophones and sitcoms. Oh yeah, I mean, and so many

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Speaker 1: eighties and nineties things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you had the good like yacht rock phase. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, but I but I love a smooth jazz,

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Speaker 3: so absolutely I do.

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Speaker 2: I love.

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Speaker 1: I like waiting room jazz, you know what I mean? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like I like to sit in the waving room

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Speaker 1: and look around and like, hey, I wonder what's wrong

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Speaker 1: with that one? Uh kidding? I kid, But it turns

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Speaker 1: out as as you know from American chantos, the story

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Speaker 1: of the saxophone is a story of near misses. We

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Speaker 1: are so close to living in a world where the

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Speaker 1: saxophone is not a thing.

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Speaker 3: Right there, Yeah, like so close to zero saxophones.

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Speaker 1: I mean. The guy who and I say this with

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Speaker 1: diplomacy and sincerity, the guy who invented the saxophone was

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Speaker 1: absolute klutz.

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Speaker 3: Yep yep, yep. Yeah. The episode he appeared in was.

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Speaker 1: Called Lucky Nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, he almost died a bunch of times,

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Speaker 3: all the time, constantly, like his mother joked about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and how much of that was a joke? Right?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: Probably not right?

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Speaker 1: So we called this guy or his friends and his

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Speaker 1: family called him Adolph Adulte already zacks, Yeah, adulphe Sachs.

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Speaker 1: He was born in Antoine Joseph Sachs November sixth, eighteen fourteen,

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Speaker 1: in a city that is now part of modern day Belgium.

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Speaker 1: It's called the not And you know, he had a

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Speaker 1: big family, but he did not have a poor family.

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Speaker 3: Right because his dad was a fairly famous woodworker of instruments.

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Speaker 1: M hmm.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He was good at it too. He was gifted such

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Speaker 1: that William the First of Orange, who was the ruly

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Speaker 1: monarch at the time, commissioned Sachs to create instruments for

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Speaker 1: the Belgian military. So he got a government contract. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, Max and you and I don't make musical instruments,

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Speaker 1: but that sounds like it's a pretty sweet gig.

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Speaker 3: I mean, especially at the time, you know, like you

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Speaker 3: didn't really have a giant corporation that could be in

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Speaker 3: charge of you, so it was pretty much just the

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Speaker 3: government or just a random rich person being like, oh sure,

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Speaker 3: please art for me. That would be terrific.

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Speaker 1: Right, yeah, that's a really good point. So so as

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Speaker 1: a result of this, our boy, Adolfe Sachs, he grows

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Speaker 1: up in a very musical environment, he thrives in this

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Speaker 1: he thrives.

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Speaker 2: In this world.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of what we know about this time

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Speaker 1: comes from Joe Santi at the Museum of Musical Instruments

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Speaker 1: in Brussels.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it turns out, for a number of reasons, there's

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Speaker 3: not actually that much history written at like like during

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Speaker 3: his lifetime. We're going to get more into that later.

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Speaker 3: But but yes, from what we do know, he was

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Speaker 3: born into a family of eleven children, although only four

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Speaker 3: of them survived to adulthood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and given the time, we might assume with

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Speaker 1: some reason that a lot of that would be due

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Speaker 1: to child mortality. But those the other kids died between

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Speaker 1: the ages of twenty and twenty five, so they made

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Speaker 1: it into adulthood. What we're saying is it wasn't all

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Speaker 1: you know, trumpets and angel farts for this guy. He

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Speaker 1: did have saxophones angel farts or saxophones and angel farts. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he was very clever, He was very talented kid. He

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Speaker 1: was making clarinet. Oh, his dad let him use the workshop.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, whenever we wanted ye come through. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: And apparently he was a total prodigy at it.

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Speaker 1: Right, like making clarinets when he was fourteen or fifteen,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't just replicate the design of the clarinet.

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Speaker 1: He improved it by changing the locations of the holes

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Speaker 1: through which the wind goes.

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Speaker 2: I am not a.

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Speaker 1: Clarinet s wind wind scientist. I'm not a wind doctor.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Sex was a wind doctor. But but that

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Speaker 3: wasn't the only medium that he worked in. He also

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Speaker 3: apparently made some ivory flutes, which I am also not

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Speaker 3: a wind doctor. But but other people thought that that

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Speaker 3: was impossible at the time, So I guess that's pretty

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Speaker 3: okay for you know, an actual teenager.

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Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of stuff about the changing

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Speaker 2: of you know, the process of making flutes, because we

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Speaker 2: got into this when we did Library of Congress to

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Speaker 2: talk about the glass flutes. Be I think Noel talked

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Speaker 2: about this because this is way more in Nol's spectrum. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the guy who knows about the stuff is the one

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Speaker 2: we don't have here right now. Perfect But like they were,

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Speaker 2: they were really experimenting, trying out and they didn't settle

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Speaker 2: with ivory because that's kind of inhumane at this point.

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Speaker 2: Make sure stuff out ivory. But like I feel like

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Speaker 2: that was the material that had like the best sounding

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Speaker 2: of them at that point, because I'm I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I'm out of my oleman too, but I remember us

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Speaker 2: talking about that.

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Speaker 1: Something, right, right, Like the glass the glass flute, which

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Speaker 1: Lizzo famously played recently, is a is a marvel. And

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Speaker 1: the ivory itself. First, ivory is expensive, that's a flex.

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Speaker 1: They weren't so very worried about animal rights in the

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. Yep, this this impressed people, but unfortunately, given

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Speaker 1: Sax's young age, this also garnered him a couple of

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Speaker 1: what we would describe as haters in the modern day. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the couple, Yeah, who is this kid?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Right? And so he gets a reputation over time for

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Speaker 1: making not just clarinets but also flutes and trumpets that

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Speaker 1: are better than the than those of the established instrument

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Speaker 1: makers of the day. When he's twenty years old, again,

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Speaker 1: just twenty, he makes a brand new clarinet that has

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Speaker 1: twenty four keys. Then he makes a bass clarinet, and

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Speaker 1: people are starting to say, wow, these other non Sax clarinets,

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Speaker 1: those are barbarian instruments, which is just weirdly aggressive.

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Speaker 3: Did they literally call them barbarian instruments? Is that a quote?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That's a quote that comes from that actually I think

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Speaker 1: comes from the website of his hometown.

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Speaker 3: Huh. Yeah, I did not know that clarinet players were

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Speaker 3: that agro, but I guess I appreciate it. Yeah, apparently

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Speaker 3: people were like jealous and mad about it, like not

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Speaker 3: just mad, mad with a hy mad about it. I

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Speaker 3: guess the soloist at the Great Royal Harmony in Brussels

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Speaker 3: refused to use this thing, even though it was ostensibly better,

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Speaker 3: because it had come from And again I quote that

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Speaker 3: weedy little pupil sax.

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Speaker 1: You can call people weedy. That just seems like a strange,

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Speaker 1: strange thing, strange insult.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you know it. It makes sense.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like kind of like noodley but but

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Speaker 3: but wheat.

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Speaker 2: But it worked out though. We little poopa whatever that

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Speaker 2: word is.

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Speaker 1: Because there's a big poopa. Why don't we talk about

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Speaker 1: the little poopa?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a little poopa?

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Speaker 3: Also weedy sort of sounds like a sound the saxophone

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Speaker 3: mix Max, can we get a saxophone sound?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that Clarence.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, it's amazing. Now now I think weedy

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Speaker 1: is cool.

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Speaker 3: We're bringing back weedy.

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Speaker 2: This is some extra weedy music.

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Speaker 1: So okay, So so there's this insult, right, the clarinet

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Speaker 1: soloist at the Great Royal Harmony in Brussels says, I'm

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Speaker 1: not you're weedy, bro, I'm not using your clarinet, and

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Speaker 1: then Sachs, who is also a multi instrumentalist, says, okay,

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Speaker 1: play your clarinet then, and I shall play mine. And

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Speaker 1: they did it in front of like four thousand people.

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Speaker 3: And he became a soloist and people started writing works

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Speaker 3: for him, and after he left they just put them

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Speaker 3: down because they were too difficult for anyone else to play.

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Speaker 1: And now let's fast forward. It's eighteen forty, he is

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Speaker 1: twenty six years old. He presents nine of his new works,

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Speaker 1: his new kind of instruments that he's been working on,

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Speaker 1: to the Belgian exhibition, and the judges don't give him

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Speaker 1: first prize, not because he's bad.

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Speaker 3: Not because the instruments were of lower quality, but because

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Speaker 3: he was so young that they were like, this isn't

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Speaker 3: fair to people who have been working in the industry longer.

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Speaker 1: Right, which is a lot like someone saying there's someone

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Speaker 1: else in line for the Olympic medal, right, right, right,

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Speaker 1: it did run faster.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, they did give him a medal, but

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Speaker 3: not the gold.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was a total jerk about it too.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah yeah.

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Speaker 3: Apparently he said, if they think me too young to

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Speaker 3: deserve the gold medal, I myself think me too old

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Speaker 3: to accept this.

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Speaker 1: For Meal one, I didn't know what for Meal was,

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Speaker 1: Oh it's like gold plated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, it's like it's like it's like chinzy, It's

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Speaker 3: like it's like, oh, it's not not really gold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So he was insulted that they offered him Oh yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: and he dissed the institution pretty hard because he didn't

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Speaker 1: want to accept these strictures, these traditions, these legacies, the

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Speaker 1: current musical regime. And if you look at his childho,

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Speaker 1: it's no wonder that he gave no f's and took

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Speaker 1: no s you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, he had already lived.

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Speaker 1: Through a lot. That's why I think drew all three

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Speaker 1: of us to this story, because while other children were

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Speaker 1: having normal childhoods, you know, for the eighteen hundreds, for

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Speaker 1: the eight sure, for the eighteen hundred, the occasional plague,

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Speaker 1: probably a lot of dysentery, Sachs was always almost dying.

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Speaker 1: He had all these bizarre brushes with death that were

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Speaker 1: right out of the Final Destination film franchise.

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Speaker 3: And Okay, as we said before, there aren't a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of primary resources that are that are really strenuously

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Speaker 3: in a research way backing this information up. But from

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Speaker 3: what we can confirm from the best of our interneting,

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Speaker 3: right and that nice museum. M Yeah, he almost died

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Speaker 3: constantly so many times.

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Speaker 1: Right it Uh, it's that's because he was notorious for

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Speaker 1: being klutz and to your point on American Shadows, either

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Speaker 1: very lucky or very unlucky on how you look at it. Yeah, so, uh,

314
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Speaker 1: all the way back, and this is something you guys

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Speaker 1: talked about on this show, all the way back to

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Speaker 1: when he was so young that he could barely walk.

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Speaker 1: He fell like the equivalent of three stories. I heard

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Speaker 1: sometimes that he fell from a tree, and then sometimes

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Speaker 1: I heard he fell downstairs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that we reported the fell down three

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Speaker 3: flights of stairs one in American Shadows. But either way,

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Speaker 3: it's a lot of height from which to fall, and

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Speaker 3: all stories agree that he really clogged his head.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And so everybody immediately assumes this kid is dead.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the report of how injured he was ranged

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Speaker 3: from like he was he was bedridden for like a

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Speaker 3: week to like he was straight in a coma, and.

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Speaker 1: They said, well, I guess we should have ten other

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Speaker 1: children just to hedge our bets.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 1: This that all happened before he was what three years old,

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Speaker 1: So that's his first brush with death.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh uh huh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Not long after that, he wound up. So he took

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Speaker 3: a drink out of, you know, whatever the glass wearer

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Speaker 3: of the day was, and he thought it was milk.

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Speaker 3: It was not milk. It was vitriolized water aka sulfuric

340
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Speaker 3: acid with water.

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Speaker 1: Oh right, yeah, he was. He was wrong about that one.

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Speaker 3: He was wrong about the milk, but it somehow didn't

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Speaker 3: murder him.

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Speaker 1: So naturally, of course, not long after that, he swallows

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Speaker 1: a needle, like a big old needle, yes, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: an eighteen hundreds needle. Yeah, like a before safety standards needle,

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Speaker 1: and he survives. I think that one is also impressive

348
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Speaker 1: given the state of medicine and hygiene at the time, right, Yeah,

349
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Speaker 1: the needle would not have been sterilized.

350
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Speaker 3: Oh, certainly not. I think I think it. I think

351
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Speaker 3: it passed through his system from from what I understand,

352
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Speaker 3: and it did not pierce his intestines and you know

353
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Speaker 3: did as nature intents with things other than needles passed

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Speaker 3: right out.

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Speaker 1: That's so crazy. Yeah, and for those of us playing

356
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Speaker 1: along at home, that's already three close brushes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and three close brushes at the age at which

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Speaker 3: someone is still swallowing pins because they just think it's lulls,

359
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 3: you know, like like this is this is like under

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Speaker 3: the age of ten for sure behavior mm hmm yeah,

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Speaker 3: probably under the age of seven.

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Speaker 1: And each of these incidents could have led to a

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Speaker 1: world without a saxophone Max. Maybe something a little bittersweet.

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00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,960
Speaker 1: Oh perfect, perfect.

365
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 2: There we go, heads up to everyone listening. I have

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Speaker 2: no way to actually know what any of these sound

367
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Speaker 2: like before I play them, so it's a it's a guest.

368
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Speaker 2: I did know that that one was not going to

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Speaker 2: be better sweet.

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Speaker 1: Though, Okay, yeah, I thought it worked, Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're pulling out all the stops because because we've

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Speaker 1: we've got an illustrious guest here. So later on he

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Speaker 1: gets burned and a gunpowder explosion that's number four.

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Speaker 3: Uh huh. I've heard that it like threw him across

375
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Speaker 3: the room.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's nuts. We have a good friend of

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Speaker 1: the show, Rachel Lance, who is the Worlds who is

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Speaker 1: a world class authority on explosions, especially underwater explosions.

379
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Speaker 3: Good good friend of the show.

380
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good person to have on speed dial,

381
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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, hey, Doc Lance, there

382
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 1: might be some explosions. I got a couple of quick questions. Yes,

383
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Speaker 1: So I bring that up to say, when there is

384
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Speaker 1: an explosion powerful enough to throw someone, Oh, it's not

385
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 1: like how we see in film. It's not something that

386
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Speaker 1: people instantly get up after.

387
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,440
Speaker 3: Oh sure, no, no, no no. And that wasn't the

388
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 3: only that wasn't the only brush with fiery death that

389
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Speaker 3: he had, because the next one is that I I

390
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 3: guess there was a cast iron pan on a stove

391
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Speaker 3: and he kind of like tripped into it, just just

392
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Speaker 3: just wamp kind of uh huh, and just really really

393
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 3: did a number on himself. I mean, you know, And

394
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: that's that's cast iron gets quite hot and it holds

395
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,640
Speaker 3: heap very well. So yeah, that's bad.

396
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Speaker 1: And then it continues. So that's number five.

397
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Speaker 3: That's number five.

398
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Speaker 1: We can count disasters six, seven, and eight as a

399
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Speaker 1: group we talked about this off air, right, like all

400
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: the times he almost asphyxiated.

401
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, these are actually my favorite because it's such like

402
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 3: an artist thing to do. Okay, So he almost suffocated

403
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 3: himself more than once, more than twice, at least three

404
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 3: times because he just kept varnishing things and then going

405
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 3: to sleep in the room where they were drying without

406
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 3: properly ventilating it. And I feel like as artists, like

407
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 3: I mean like like, I mean, like we're writers, so

408
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 3: we have like slightly less danger.

409
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Speaker 1: Sure, but but I love that.

410
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 3: I just love that. I love it when you're just

411
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Speaker 3: arting too hard to bother thinking about, you know.

412
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Speaker 4: Not dying.

413
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 2: Sure. I've walked into my brother doing something like this

414
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: before and I'm like, what are you doing, Alex?

415
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: It's Alex Williams who composed this track. And I don't know.

416
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 1: Can Alex play the saxophone?

417
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Speaker 4: Ah?

418
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: Maybe a little.

419
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 3: I don't think he plays everything else?

420
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I think he might some. I

421
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 2: don't think he's ever played that much read instrument. Okay, caution,

422
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 2: he's percussion, he's obviously.

423
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: He gave me a great little melodica.

424
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think brass and reed though stuff he hasn't

425
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: played that much. But you know what, I'm also based

426
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 2: on this off of like, you know, when we lived

427
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 2: together in high school. Yeah, and we are not in

428
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 2: high school any longer. We are old, old old credits.

429
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Speaker 1: Now, well, the varnish can still get you. The point

430
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: of that is keep a window open, yes, always. But then,

431
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 1: of course he almost dies a couple other times.

432
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there were a couple more public accidents that happened.

433
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 3: I guess. In one he was just walking down the

434
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: street minding his own sax business and a roof paver

435
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,439
Speaker 3: or something like slid right down and conked him on the.

436
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: Head, like cartoon stych.

437
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,360
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, this was it was probably from acme, right.

438
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 3: And then there was another time that he fell into

439
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: a river and was rescued by a stranger who happened

440
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 3: to be passing by and like noticed that this kid

441
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 3: was floating face down.

442
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: Which that is sobery, that's frightening. And this all leads

443
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: us to that quote you mentioned when even even his

444
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 1: parents acknowledged this this kid at a situation.

445
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were like, heck and hecket sacks, could you

446
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: please could you get your stuff together? Man? Yeah, his

447
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: his mother there's a quote from his mother. Again, I'm

448
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: not totally sure where we're getting this from, but apparently

449
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 3: she said he's a child condemned to misfortune, he won't.

450
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: Live and in the district, in the neighborhood, his street

451
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: name was Little Sax the Ghost.

452
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 3: That's a good street name. Yeah, right, right, could we

453
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 3: get some ghostly secks?

454
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: We can try.

455
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: WHOA nailed it?

456
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 2: I'm not hearing gonna be sexs phone?

457
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 3: Yeah that doesn't sound like a sex Yeah, I mean,

458
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 3: but let's.

459
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: Give a second. We're doing this live, y'all.

460
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen along with let's let's see what the second

461
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: comes in.

462
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: There.

463
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 3: It is.

464
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: Like, butta my dude, that's high quality. Yeah, now, I

465
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: just kind of want to hang out and hear this

466
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: all right now, this would be weird music to hear

467
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: in a waiting room. Oh well, yeah, like what are

468
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: you waiting there?

469
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: Right?

470
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: So, Little Sacks the Ghost does reach adulthood, yes, and

471
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 1: he is. He feels that Paris is calling him. He

472
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: has the dream of traveling to France, and so he does.

473
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: In the eighteen forties. He has only thirty francs in

474
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: his pocket, so he's a real success story. There's something

475
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: romantic about being this talented musician. I'm in Paris. I'm

476
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: gonna make my own way. I'm going to redefine music

477
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: going to the big city there it is.

478
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and all of this was you know, this was

479
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 3: after the Revolution, Napoleon's reign, and so Paris was a

480
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: little bit nutty little miss at the time. Sure yeah, yeah, yeah,

481
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: but there was still money to be made from the military.

482
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: So like his father before him, Sachs got some contracts

483
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 3: with the French military, or similar to like his father

484
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 3: before him.

485
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, which is fascinating to me because that's such

486
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: a weirdly specific career or flex. I never thought about it,

487
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: but I guess, so what does have to make all

488
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: those musical instruments and at this time they're making a

489
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: lot of them by hand?

490
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I mean, and there are still military bands,

491
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 3: but I think that they were more of a phenomenon

492
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 3: at this time than they are currently. You know, people

493
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 3: didn't have Netflix. They had to make their own fun.

494
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: Right yeah, that fun would be war complete with five

495
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: sure right. So he also is very very ambitious, this guy,

496
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: because he doesn't just want to make the same the

497
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: same old vanilla clarinet he starts inventing his own instruments,

498
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: and his dream is to bring his own brand new

499
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: instruments to these militaries. And in eighteen forty two, that's

500
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: when he really starts working on what would become the saxophone,

501
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 1: and the whole weird family.

502
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: Host charmingly named family of other instruments that he just

503
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: put his own name in front of and I had

504
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 3: never heard of before. Because you have what the sax.

505
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: Tuba, the sax horn.

506
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 3: Perhaps my favorite, the sax troumba.

507
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:41,680
Speaker 1: Sax tromba.

508
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is, but I want to

509
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 3: hear it.

510
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: Hey, yeah, okay, we're gonna have to dig in on

511
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: that one. I think that's a deep cut.

512
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, because none of these ever really made it anywhere,

513
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 3: certainly not the way that the saxophone did.

514
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: Right, And he also didn't name it himself, so lest

515
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: we think his ambition led to some meglomaniacal thing, he

516
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 1: was not calling it a saxophone. He was right around

517
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: third a little bit. He's like right on the cusp

518
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: of becoming thirty years old when he starts making I know,

519
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: right when he starts making inroads in the Parisian music scene,

520
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: and though he could be an abrasive dude, he makes

521
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 1: He makes a friendship with a composer and a critic

522
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: named Hector Berlois. And these guys when they meet, they click.

523
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: They have like a Cloud Atlas moment and they're like,

524
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: what do you think about you know, clarinets. He's like

525
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: that shit's for barbarians or whatever they talk about, and

526
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: they burn them indnight oil and Sachs ends up pitching

527
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: this guy, this established Parisian musician. He's like, here's what

528
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: I think about everything. Here are my ideas we should

529
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: have instruments for the armies. I'm gonna do this thing

530
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 1: and that thing, and we pull to quote from his

531
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: hometown's website, it was it was kind of a It

532
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: was an awkward moment when Sas finally ran out of

533
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 1: steam and stopped talking.

534
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 3: Huh, because apparently Burloyd's had just been listening to all

535
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: of this in silence. According to the hometown website, at

536
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 3: the end of this conference, he confided in Sacks, tomorrow

537
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: you will know what I think about the work you

538
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 3: have accomplished.

539
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: That's cryptic.

540
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: I would be pretty mad if I if I poured

541
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 3: my heart out my creative heart out. It's someone who was,

542
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 3: you know, like a decent buddy. Sure, and they were like, yeah,

543
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 3: I wanna get back to you tomorrow about that one.

544
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's it's a very strange thing, you know.

545
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: And then on June twelfth, eighteen forty two, Sax learns

546
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: that there's an article in this journal Beloy's writes for

547
00:29:54,920 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: and it's all about how great Sax is. Axe is

548
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: called as invention at this point the bass horn. Okay,

549
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: but it's Hector who gives it the name. We know

550
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: it by today.

551
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, and can we can we get can we get

552
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: some music in the background for this quote? Sure, I

553
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 3: don't know what mood I want.

554
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: Oh I got one right here. It's called sticky Wicket.

555
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, all right.

556
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: The description says strip tease for superheroes.

557
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: Oh no, I hear that.

558
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Okay, this is this

559
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: is a good vibe.

560
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: This is good. Okay, all right.

561
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: The beats a little bit fast, but let's see, let's

562
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: see what we can do with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

563
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 3: it's principal Merit in my view, is the very beauty

564
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 3: of its accent, sometimes serious, sometimes calm, sometimes impassioned, dreamy,

565
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 3: or melancholic, or vague, like the weakened echo of an echo,

566
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 3: like the indistinct, plaintiff mones of the breeze in the woods,

567
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: and even better, like the mysterious vibrations of a bell

568
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: long after it has been struck. There does not exist

569
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 3: another musical instrument that I know of that possesses this

570
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 3: strange resonance which is situated at the edge of silence.

571
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 1: Thank you, especially because yeah, with that you're spitting for

572
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: a second there, you know that with the beat at

573
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: that speed, so he is over the moon, hector and

574
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: he may have been taciturn toward the end of that

575
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: initial conversation, but after he had some time to digest,

576
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: to percolate, to chew on it, he decided he was

577
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: a sax fan for life. He thought the name basehorn

578
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: was dumb, so he started calling it the saxophone. It

579
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: was new, it was different. This article, with all this praise,

580
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: it goes out in Belgium, it goes out in France,

581
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: and this is the start of a brand new era

582
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: for Adolphus Sacks. Of course, being a brand new era

583
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's one hundred said a great brand new era.

584
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, because, as it happened in the past, with this

585
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 3: success and this skill and talent came a lot of

586
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: weird vibes his way, Like there was a lot of

587
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: jealousy and criticism to deal with. M m.

588
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. He was introduced throughout the musical world. It was

589
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: sort of like when something hits Twitter and everybody feels

590
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: that they are required to have a stance on it.

591
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know what I mean.

592
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the Bean's dad.

593
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, sure, yeah you can. You can hate the saxophone,

594
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: you can love it, but you are going to be

595
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: taking you have an opinion. You have an opinion. And

596
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: he met a lot of other composers who who co

597
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: signed it. They said, you know, let's add this to

598
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: classical music. Let's let's shake things up. He gets to

599
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: hang out at the salons the doing the Ted Talks

600
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: of day and everybody knows his name. He's at this time,

601
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: like you said, he's working on these things that he

602
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: starts calling sax horns, counting the sax horn, the sax tube,

603
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: and of course the vogel bomb favorite the sax tromba.

604
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 4: Uh.

605
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: They all work off the same principle, right, you are

606
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: influencing the sound of air released into a brass.

607
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 3: Tube in various ways. Sure, yeah, yeah, And.

608
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: He created this instrument, the original saxophone, in two sizes.

609
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: One is the larger subcontra bassed saxophone, and the other one,

610
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: which Max I think is the one you like, is

611
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: the soprano.

612
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was drinking some water right there. I think

613
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: there's like, what's there's like? Now there is what the soprano,

614
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: the alto, the baritone, a lot more. See out the

615
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: ones that are really like high pitch and annoying. Hold

616
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: us like, let me just get one real quick. Yeah,

617
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: so saxophone, so prano, I think that's how it is,

618
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: fell soprano like something kind of the loading has taken

619
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: longer than I expected to take something along the here

620
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 2: we go.

621
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: Sopranino, something like that. I don't know, I don't know

622
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: why I'm saying with that egregious mark accent, but but yeah,

623
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: So he makes these they they're a blend of wood

624
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: winds and brass. They can get those notes we would

625
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: call bluesy today, and they can even you know, they

626
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 1: can even give you like a melancholy stringed instrument vibe.

627
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, as as Berloy was was saying to that very

628
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 3: perky music, very.

629
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: Perky music, and the saxophone would later be called I

630
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 1: want to see how you feel about this quote. It

631
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: would later be called the perennial Cinderella of serious music

632
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: by Time magazine.

633
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 3: Wow, Time magazine. That's the word salad. I mean, okay,

634
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: all right, perennial Cinderella of serious music.

635
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: Mm hmm yeah. So every so the idea is the saxophone.

636
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: At least in Sacks, his life was seen as not

637
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: super legit nor respectable, you know what I mean. It's

638
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 1: like to a lot of the haters. Again, and I

639
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: hesitate to use that phrase, but it is the most

640
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: accurate to a lot of his haters, a lot of

641
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: the people who are envious or disliked him. Having a

642
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: saxophone in your orchestra would be the same thing as

643
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: having like a jug, yeah, or like you know, a washboard.

644
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 3: Or something yeah yeah, like like like, please be serious,

645
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 3: why are you eating here right now?

646
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: Saucer for wood, right, that kind of thing. And if

647
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: you look around today, it seems like he was really successful.

648
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:59,439
Speaker 1: He did revolutionize music, but not really in his time,

649
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: and a lot a lot of it goes down to

650
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 1: his personality. Uh he he he could be ornery.

651
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:06,959
Speaker 4: Yeah.

652
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: Another another quote from that website. He apparently had exceptional

653
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: gifts for the gentle art of making enemies.

654
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: Which poetic. Oh beautiful. Why is it a gentle art?

655
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: I mean, if you want really high quality enemies, you

656
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 3: have to be gentle about it.

657
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you got you got to ease your way

658
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,800
Speaker 1: into the enmity. So people tried to sabotage his innovations.

659
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: People refuse to play instruments he made. His boy Burloys

660
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: is continuing to defend him. Uh. And then this guy

661
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: comes out of Germany. His name, we'll call him Viprecht.

662
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: He is a band leader for a part of the

663
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: German military. And he says, hold on, this guy's a

664
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: phony because some inventors from Germany were the first ones

665
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: to make this thing you're calling the saxophone, and you

666
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: have stolen the idea. You're a plagiarizer and imitator. And

667
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: they said, look, we're going to show you that we

668
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: did this. Ben would he be a saxophony?

669
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 4: He would?

670
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: He would?

671
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: You know what, you know what we gotta do the

672
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: max with the facts on that one that seeking in

673
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: the phone and he's fallen.

674
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 2: Lolge it's just for you right now with the fact.

675
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: Do you know this song? Oh yeah, okay, legendary. We

676
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: got Matt Frederick to do it live one time.

677
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: Oh it's beautiful.

678
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:47,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

679
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: So they they perpetrate fraud themselves. What they do is

680
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 1: they order some of his some of Sax's actual instruments

681
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 1: from him from Paris. When they get it in the mail,

682
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: they buff out his name.

683
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 3: From the brass yeah, uh huh, and then send the

684
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 3: instruments back to France. We made this, yeah, see it

685
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 3: doesn't have your serial number on it at all.

686
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: That's insane to me. That's like buying a car and

687
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: then switching out the branding, you know, a little picture

688
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: of yourself and then sending it back to Honda or

689
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: whatever and say like, actually, I made this score and

690
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm suing you. So so this is this is a

691
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: heck of a con or an attempt at it, and

692
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: Sax is not going to take it. Laying down line down,

693
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: lane down, lind down.

694
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 3: I can never tell that one apart. It's yeah, that's

695
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 3: not the kind of editing I'm good at.

696
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: He's not going to take it in a horizontal position.

697
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 3: Yeah no no, but but they were serious about it,

698
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 3: like they really tried to be like no, no, no,

699
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 3: like we've done known about these in German for a

700
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 3: hot minute. Look at how good our German musicians are

701
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: at playing these instruments. They clearly wouldn't be this good

702
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: if they didn't. And the thing is is that they

703
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 3: couldn't play them right like like like there like there

704
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: was a there was a whole like like public demonstration

705
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: and they literally could not play the saxophone and the

706
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,359
Speaker 3: bass clarinet. They were kind of like peepoop. Yeah right,

707
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: that's a historical reenactment. It's very very act accurate.

708
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: Thank you, and uh and VI break all of a

709
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: sudden has has like a revelational like a Rode to

710
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: Damascus moment, and he goes, you know what, I like

711
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 1: sax now. I think you're cool, bro. And then and

712
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: then sax Flex is on him and goes, you know

713
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: what about the patent. I shall wait another year before

714
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: registering this patent. We shall see whether by then a

715
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: maker will have produced a true saxophone.

716
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 4: He's like, oh wow, He's like, yeah, come at me exactly.

717
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: I wish he would Yeah right right, make one if

718
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 4: he can, you know what I mean? It eventually does

719
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 4: patent the saxophone. It's eighteen forty six. And as soon

720
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 4: as he does that, there are pirated versions that come

721
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 4: out in France and he makes no money.

722
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: Off of those. He's more and more known for his

723
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: difficult personality. If we go back to Joe Santi at

724
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: the Museum of Musical Instruments, we see a weird We

725
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: see a quote that shows us just how divisive a

726
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: figure he was.

727
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said with Adolph Sachs, he was so controversial.

728
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 3: You were either for him or against him. This dangerous, dynamic,

729
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 3: prolific Belgian who had arrived in Paris split up the

730
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: musical world in France between pros and cons.

731
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: Okay, now we have all at some point in our lives.

732
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: We have all felt that someone has for no valid

733
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: reason and decided they don't like us.

734
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 3: Right, Oh sure, yeah, I'm I'm I'm paranoid about that

735
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 3: all the time with everybody constantly. Right, It's like a

736
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 3: really key defining personality trait.

737
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: And sometimes you know, people will resent someone for due

738
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: to envy. Right, why is why as why don't I

739
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: have a musical instrument named after me et cetera.

740
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, why is that kid getting all the attention? He's

741
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 3: so weedy.

742
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: He's so weedy, right and so perfect?

743
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 3: Uh.

744
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 1: And so Sax experiences this on a much more extreme

745
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: level than most people. Entire clubs are formed centering on

746
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: how much they dislike Sax and how much they dislike

747
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:45,640
Speaker 1: his inventions.

748
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: And this was before the internet. So yeah, I'm really

749
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 3: proud of like the amount of effort this must have taken.

750
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: They scheduled, they like met up in person. You know,

751
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,320
Speaker 1: they probably had an agenda at their meetings.

752
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and and like the press got involved

753
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: and business turned real sour for sex. He wound up

754
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: declaring bankruptcy three times eighteen fifty two, eighteen seventy three,

755
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 3: and eighteen seventy seven. It probably would have been a fourth,

756
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 3: But then Napoleon the Third, who I guess was on

757
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 3: the other side of this pro sex anti Sax debate.

758
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 3: I just stepped in and saved him from financial ruin

759
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:27,920
Speaker 3: because he.

760
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 2: Could also not that Napoleon, not that oh the third?

761
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the first, Yes, the Napoleon three, the first

762
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:38,400
Speaker 1: president of France.

763
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, how tall was Napoleon three? Do we know

764
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 2: let's see s Ben, You and I like to joke about,

765
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: like how the first Napoleon wasn't actually that short.

766
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 3: Oh no, he was quite reasonably sized for someone of

767
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 3: that age.

768
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 2: Right, a lot taller than some other people like Stalin.

769
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: Stalin was much shorter than Napoleon.

770
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 3: Really yeah, ooh that's fun.

771
00:42:57,880 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 2: But Stalin had people had purposely had a lot of

772
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 2: people around who were very short to make him look

773
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 2: taller in photos.

774
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, yeah, until he erased them out of

775
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: the photos right during his purges. This is a yeah,

776
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: the very first photoshop under Stalin. It's thank you to

777
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,840
Speaker 1: Adobe for being way more cool. But yet, so without

778
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: knowing how tall, uh, Napoleon three was, I guess we

779
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: could say, in modern parlance, Napoleon Napoleon, Napoleon the first

780
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: was about five six.

781
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: See, I've heard five eight.

782
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 3: Also, yeah, I've heard I've heard between five six and

783
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 3: five eight.

784
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 2: Right. There's a lot of debate because I know Stalin

785
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 2: was five to five.

786
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, stall was definitely five to five, right, So.

787
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: I think that's one of those things that's lost to history.

788
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 2: It was mostly like propaganda and I counterattacks on Napoleon

789
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 2: be like, oh he's so short, right, And there's also

790
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: been like a lot of people like I think Peter

791
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: did great. Was Peter the Greade six eight or was

792
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 2: he like six four? I can't remember either way.

793
00:43:58,800 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 3: That's quite tall.

794
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: He's quite tall, much taller than me. He gets portrayed

795
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 2: as like seven to two.

796
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: I mean, history cast a shadow, does it?

797
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 3: Not?

798
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: Right?

799
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: True?

800
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: So, no matter how tall or short, Napoleon the Third was,

801
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: no matter how you feel about his domestic and foreign policies,

802
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 1: the guy loved saxophones. And he was like, oh, come on, man,

803
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: don't go broke over this. Yeah.

804
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And his buddy Burlois still was coming up to

805
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: his defense, and he was still selling saxophones, Like, he

806
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 3: was still selling not a lot of those other saxes.

807
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: But from eighteen forty three to eighteen sixty he apparently

808
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 3: sold like twenty thousand different ones.

809
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot of it's a lot of smooth jazz,

810
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: it is, which wasn't a thing yet either, No, no, no, no,

811
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: no not at all.

812
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 3: That's but right, yeah, and he continued inventing instruments. He

813
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 3: was teaching at the Paris Conservatory. It wasn't all bad.

814
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't all bad, but he was always under some

815
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: sort of financial strain. In eighteen fifty eight, he gets

816
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: lip cancer, which is a thing.

817
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 3: Apparently that's a thing.

818
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: Apparently that's the thing.

819
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: I mean, you can get cancer anywhere.

820
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: I guess, sure, yeah, you can get cancer anywhere. He

821
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: got lip cancer. This did not kill him. He experienced

822
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: a full recovery. Bizarrely enough, he lives a full life,

823
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 1: and he dies of pneumonia in Paris, impoverished and elderly.

824
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: He's like seventy nine eighty years old. On February seventh,

825
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety four, when you did an excellent teaser at

826
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: the beginning here a little bit of foreshadowing in our

827
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: episode where you said, we don't have a lot of

828
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: sources on Sax's early life, and we're going to learn why.

829
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 1: So that's the question, why don't we know more about

830
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: this guy? Because saxophones are everywhere today?

831
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: Right?

832
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you're tripping over saxophones anywhere you go. It

833
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 3: would be an awkward thing to trip over. I feel

834
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 3: like I would try to, though I'm.

835
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: Laughing because I'm imagining this sound effect, even though it

836
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense, because someone would have to be playing

837
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 1: the saxophone, for to make a saxophone noise when you

838
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: trip over it. Yeah, So at this point you're basically

839
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: like jumping over someone or they're on the ground playing

840
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: the saxophone.

841
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: Yea, So Ben, what you're saying is, if you trip

842
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 2: over a saxophone with no one around, is there a sound?

843
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I'm saying. Yeah, And you articulated it

844
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 1: so well, Max, Okay, but why Yeah.

845
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 3: The thing is is that no one cared about him

846
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 3: at the time. By the time he died, I feel

847
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: like what happened was everyone was so what was bored

848
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 3: of arguing about it. It was kind of pushed to

849
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 3: argue about him for a certain period of his life.

850
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 3: And then by the time he passed, he wasn't that

851
00:46:58,120 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 3: big of a deal anymore. No one was talking about

852
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: him anymore. So records about him were not saved until

853
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 3: a little bit later when the saxophone became something that

854
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 3: you might be in danger of driving there.

855
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yes, And now we know that the saxophone

856
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: was almost forgotten entirely, and it had become it had

857
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: become not quite prestigious enough to be part of an orchestra.

858
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: But now it wasn't interesting enough to argue about in

859
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: those salons. As you said, it would take a century

860
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: or more for the saxophone to become what we know

861
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 1: it today, because although it was im penurias circumstances, sax

862
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: was not aware that his creation was on the move.

863
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: I think it was in nineteen hundred people who played

864
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: in military bands in the Spanish American War come back

865
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: to the United States, particularly New Orleans, and they bring

866
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: the saxophone with them. Yeah.

867
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 3: So with the rise of jazz in the United States,

868
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 3: I think specifically like like by like like world like

869
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:18,360
Speaker 3: after World War One, you started really getting this, this

870
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 3: the zeitgeist of the saxophone.

871
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah, in that Inner War period, like

872
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, the late teens and the jazz age that's

873
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: that is what they call it. Yes, so we might

874
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 1: need a Lauren with the facts.

875
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: Who's that guest hosting the show burn and she's on

876
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: this podcast, Lawrence.

877
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we would say, all right, the story's over.

878
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: Jazz saves the saxophone. However, jazz also brought a lot

879
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: of a lot of social problems in the United States

880
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: to bear right and a lot of people who saw

881
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: themselves as posh fans of classical music. They looked down

882
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: at jazz, they looked askance at it, and the saxophone

883
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: being associated with jazz meant that. Yet again, there was

884
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: a huge group of people who thought, this is not series.

885
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is an un serious instrument.

886
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, And that would have been the case

887
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: all the way up to the modern day if it

888
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,720
Speaker 1: weren't for a guy named Marcel Mule in the nineteen fifties.

889
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, and okay, so I don't have an extremely good

890
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:48,359
Speaker 3: grip on musical history, but according to Time Magazine, when

891
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 3: he played the Heck and Sacks, the instrument could produce

892
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 3: quote an open, evenly controlled sound that could sing with

893
00:49:56,640 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: a clean vibrato or a finely trimmed staccato swell robustly

894
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 3: and solidly, with no trace of the breath the air sound.

895
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: Who sounds like the sounds like the journalist over a

896
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 1: time had a little bit of misophonia, right or misophoonia.

897
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was like not like that heck and

898
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 3: clarinet where you're hearing the mouth noises all the time.

899
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 1: The mouth noises is what the guy at time is saying. Yeah,

900
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: so Marcel mule is this champion of making the saxophone

901
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: a well respected classical instrument, and he goes so far

902
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: as to form a saxophone an all saxophone quartet.

903
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 3: A classical saxophone quartet, a.

904
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 1: Classical saxophone quartet. And when they formed this, there wasn't

905
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: any music for them to play. Sure, people didn't write for.

906
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 3: It, no, but he he was not deterred. He told

907
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 3: Time Magazine, I have one mission in life. That is

908
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 3: to make people take the saxophone seriously. It's time they

909
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 3: discovered the nobility of this spoiled instrument.

910
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 1: Since we are an audio podcast, I want everyone to know, Lauren,

911
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,839
Speaker 1: you were like getting very close to slamming your hand

912
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: on the table in Time, right, justice for the saxophone.

913
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: This this is crazy because I did not know just

914
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 1: how close. Again and again and again the world came

915
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 1: to not having the saxophone.

916
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 3: I mean, what would Lisa Simpson have even done?

917
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: Right, that's like half her thing?

918
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. Yeah, I mean right, due to like

919
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 3: various brushes with death and I guess being very weedy. Yeah,

920
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 3: we almost didn't have the sex.

921
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 1: And you know, while we're while we're going out to

922
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: our regular outro. Max, maybe we can have just a

923
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: little saxophone to get us in.

924
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 2: I thought you would never ask. I've been queuing this

925
00:51:58,560 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 2: one up the whole time.

926
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: I'm excited.

927
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: Bolts it with saxophone. And remember, I have no idea

928
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 2: what it sounds like.

929
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: Waltz it with saxophone. It is a little racy, man,

930
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. Facts this point has headphones and shrunking.

931
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: It's much quieter in my headphones than yours. And I

932
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 2: don't know why I can barely hear it of these.

933
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,479
Speaker 2: So I'm really going blind faith on this song.

934
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, let's hope it works. Of course, Thank you

935
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: mister Max Williams are super producer. Thanks of course to

936
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: Alex Williams, who can pose the banging track you here.

937
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,879
Speaker 1: Thanks of course to Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister. We're

938
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 1: required to say it, get that. Yeah, and most especially Lauren,

939
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on the show. You're

940
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: one of the busiest folks I know, and it's an

941
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: absolute pleasure to have you join us again.

942
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 3: Oh it's always good to come on and goof around.

943
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 3: And here's some good sax music.

944
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: Yes, and for everybody who's wondering. We talked a little

945
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: bit about your many other projects here. Where can people

946
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: find you? Where can they learn more about your work?

947
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 3: Oh? On the internet if you can, if you can

948
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 3: spell my name, you can probably find me. And I

949
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 3: know that that's a little bit of a tall order,

950
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 3: but but yeah, that's that's Lauren Vogelbaum and I am

951
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 3: currently on brain stuff Saver And you can listen to

952
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,800
Speaker 3: the archive of American Shadows and yeah yeah, or or

953
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 3: find me on Instagram at vogel Bomb v O g

954
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 3: e l Bomb.

955
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so and so with that, we hope you

956
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,239
Speaker 1: join us next time, Ridiculous Historians. We're going to be

957
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 1: diving into moral panics surrounding hip hop. We're going to

958
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: be We're gonna be doing lots of stuff. We're going

959
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: to be doing all right, lot lots of things. Thanks

960
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: so much, folks, We'll see you next time.

961
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

962
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.