WEBVTT - The Energy Future Needs Cleaner Batteries 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Karl Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.680 plus technology, politics, economics, all parnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analysts in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.760 pm Eastern Time on the Bloomberg Radio or watch us 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.920 on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. It's the Sooner than 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:35.320 you think issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, showcasing technology, 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.239 really actionable insight into the near future, business in the 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.680 market forces and tech innovations that really are already transforming 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.839 our global economy. There is a themed him amongst some 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.400 of the stories about scarcity, scarcity, excuse me, and that 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.120 includes the domestic cover story about the Goblin in the batteries. Yeah, 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.200 scarcity of broadband, scarcity of water, and scarcity of cobal 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.480 that we need for batteries. We're talking cobald now. Joe 0:00:57.560 --> 0:00:59.640 Weber is editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He's with us 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:02.080 an the Blue Brick Interactive Broker Studio, and Drake Bennett 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:04.560 is technology reporter at Bloomberg Business which he joins us 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:06.920 on the phone from New York City. Joel, I, I 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.360 was not thinking about cobalt when I plug my phone 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.400 in yesterday, when I plugged my phone in yesterday, But 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:16.800 I certainly and yet that phone cobalt helps make it run. UM. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.039 And you know, this is our domestic cover story for 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.399 the Sooners. And you think issue and I think one 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.080 of the things that we were resting with and you know, 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.640 as consumers, we actually wrestle with this all the time, 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:29.720 and we're gonna wrestle with it a whole lot more 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:34.640 in the years to come. UM. But ultimately, like charging 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:38.280 right in batteries, and you think about your phone and 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:42.920 and what makes that go, it's um, you know, it's batteries. Uh. 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:46.320 And as we look at this energy transition where we're 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:51.040 gonna see millions more electric vehicles on the roads around 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.960 the world, there's a question about how the those batteries 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:59.080 are actually gonna gonna run uh. And cobalt is really 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.000 the secret ingredient UM. And so Drake's done the story. 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.200 It is sort of magical because of these two narratives 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:09.000 that it brings together. It's really the search for a 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:12.080 better battery. On one hand, that might come from the 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.040 ground and we need more cobalt, but it also could 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.400 come from the lab and might not involve any cobalt. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.960 So so Drake, why don't you break that down for us? Yeah, no, thanks, 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.280 Joel Um, Yeah exactly. I mean, I think we think 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.560 about batteries as technologies, and they are technologies. I mean, 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:30.840 they're closer to being like a microchip than they are 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.240 to being like the commodity like oil. So it makes 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.720 sense that you see these dramatic drops in price and 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.720 these increases in energy density and things like that. But 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:45.560 they're very dependent on the particular chemical characteristics of particular elements, 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:50.640 and UM one of those is cobalt. Cobalt is particularly 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.480 good as a as a cathode materials, sort of making 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.720 the sort of foundation of one of the electrodes of 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.880 the battery. Uh. And there are you know, most of 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:05.079 the world. Uh. Cobalt happens to be found under UM, 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:10.120 the democratic called Congo, which is uh, you know, unstable country, UM, 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.839 very poor working conditions in the minds. Chinese companies own 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.960 a lot of the minds there, and so there's you know, 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.600 incentive right there to try to diversify our supply UM. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.040 But on top of that, you know, if we are 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:27.080 going to meaningfully make it dent and you know, if 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:30.560 there's one point to billion internal combustion cars on the 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.040 road today, if we're gonna switch some meaningful proportion of 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.120 those to being electric vehicles, we're gonna need many times 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.080 more cobalt than what we currently know about UM. So, right, 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.360 so there's two approaches that I look at. One is 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.720 finding more so. There's a tech company UM based in 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.520 Silicon Valley. It's it's these physicists and data scientists who 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:54.360 are convinced that they can use the tools of data 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:59.920 science UM, these powerful artificial intelligence algorithms to find deposits 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:05.240 where traditional energy companies and traditional exploration geologists have failed. 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:09.040 I did. I spent a lot of time talking to 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.280 these guys, and then as it happened, they were just 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.480 beginning to go see if they're right. So they were 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.400 One of their exploration claim blocks is in the art 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.920 in the Canadian ARCT dick way up at this very 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.239 tip of Quebec, and I went up there and spent 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.840 some time flying around in a helicopter with one of 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.039 the geologists as he went to these spots that this 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:34.000 AI was saying looked promising and examine the rock yet 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.680 kind of primitive actually seeing what he did. He had 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.920 this sledge hammer and he just break off these rocks 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:40.919 and then get up this kind of jeweler's loop and 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:46.200 look at them. And you know, um, yeah, very I mean, 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:47.800 you did have a you did have a you know, 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.760 Samsung tablet that he was entering stuff into. But it 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.600 is this mix of this kind of very traditional geology 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.640 and this these these tools that rely on enormous amounts 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.840 of computing power and advanced data science. So after after 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:05.000 reporting out this story, Drake, are your sources optimistic that 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:06.880 there is a solution out there? Because I think about 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.159 something like this in the transition to electric vehicles, and 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.920 I don't think that consumers understand that this isn't black 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.880 and white, right. These batteries take serious natural resources, and 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.760 even to charge at this point takes fossil fuels in 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.599 many cases. Yeah, I mean, I think you know, the 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.800 other sort of the other sort of side of the 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.760 coin that I wrote about was was a chemist who's 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.800 basically trying to design batteries that don't need cobalt at all. 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:34.280 So then it doesn't matter that it's all under the 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.040 congo and that we don't know where we're going to 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.880 get it um And I think, you know, there's ways 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.400 in which these two approaches are intention but in many 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.080 ways they're complementary. And so I think, and there's you know, 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.400 plenty of other folks who are looking at recycling or 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.760 you know, improving the kind of processing of these ores 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:54.800 so that you can use more marginal deposits. And so 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.599 there's a bunch of approaches and I think you put 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.800 those together and you you know, you are probably gonna 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.599 make a meaningful dent in this problem. I mean, having 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:09.400 seen both sides of maybe how this plays out, what's 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:13.839 what's your conclusion about what ultimately will happen in terms 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.599 of batteries no cobalt or well, we'll find more. I 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:21.400 think I think we will. I think both people find more, 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.000 and I think you know they're they're there. They're interesting. 0:06:24.320 --> 0:06:27.080 You know examples from history, you know, oil and gas. Right, 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:28.920 there was this idea that we had reached peak oil 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.200 forty years ago, and you know that didn't happen. But 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.159 at the same time, you are already seeing the process 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.840 where the amount of cobalt being used in these batteries 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.440 is getting lower and lower and lower. So you know, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.039 whether or not it goes to zero, it's still gone 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.240 from basically in the first with my own batteries to 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:51.680 you know, in in some of the things being built now, 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.560 and I think right to like, you know, we're talking 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.160 about changes that are gonna play out over years um. 0:06:59.279 --> 0:07:02.320 Even even for you know, best case scenario, this place 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.320 that Drake visited, you know that if that became an 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.520 operational mind, you know, it could take a decade before 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.280 anything from that ground ends up actually powering a car. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:19.600 You know, so massive infrastructure we're talking about that goes 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.280 into some of these projects. So it's a little bit 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.560 of everything. I think it's an incredible story and you really, 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:28.720 you know, get into the nitty gritty of what's going 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.920 on and something that I think we take for granted 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.680 safe to say, well, and I think there's this misconception 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.760 that I was alluding to earlier that it was immediately 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.080 a green solution for someone to go buy an electric car. 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.440 But when it comes to the production of it, when 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.800 it comes to the battery, when it comes to charging, 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.960 it's it's not that simple, great issue. Joll Well, there's 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.720 much more in there, and I think one of the 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:53.400 through lines is looking at resources and in this case 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.200 it's a battery. But um, you know there's this water 0:07:56.240 --> 0:07:59.040 one that I think is also really interesting. And you know, look, 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.320 a lot of these problems are are things that humans 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:06.000 create and now we can try and solve them. And boy, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.080 I hope we're good at innovation. Still fingers crossed, everything's crossed. 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:10.760 I mean, you still can't believe they are hundred twenty 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:12.840 million Americans who don't have masters to broadband, which is 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:14.440 another story. We talked about that one yesterday on the 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.239 show All That in our weekend Bloomberg Business Week show 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:19.600 that you can catch on Bloomberg Radio at eight a m. And, 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.920 of course, check out the magazine. It is on newstands, 0:08:22.000 --> 0:08:24.160 check out Bloomberg dot com, business Week dot com, and 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.560 the Bloomberg terminal. Our thanks to Drake Bennett and Business 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:36.200 Week editor Joel Weber. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:39.880 Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick takes Tim 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.640 Stinnovy on Bloomberg Radio. Are you are listening to Bloomberg 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:50.800 Business Week several headlines when it comes certainly to COVID 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.040 and the vaccines and boosters. In fact, we are awaiting 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:58.320 some news from the CDCs Advisory Committee on Immunization Practice 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.480 making its own recommendations about who should receive additional doses. 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.720 We know FISER getting a step forward, the FDA saying 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.040 people over the age of sixty five and adults at 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.080 high risk of severe COVID nineteen who already got that 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.440 viser by in tech vaccine can get a booster shot. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.160 But there's a lot of information that still has to happen. Yeah, 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.000 there is a lot of concern about Okay, are we 0:09:19.120 --> 0:09:21.000 to a point where we need to be encouraging boosters 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.880 when there are so many holdouts for just getting that 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:26.240 first shot exactly. So let's see what Dr Andy Pekosh 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.400 has to say. He's Professor of Molecular microbiology and Immunology 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.280 at Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health. Of course, 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.559 that school is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder, Bloomberg ELP, 0:09:36.640 --> 0:09:39.440 and Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Pekosh back with us on the 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.600 phone from Baltimore. Dr Pekosh, how are you, Oh, I'm 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.920 doing great. Thanks for having me on the show. Always 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.040 good to check in with you. Where are you on boosters? 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:52.280 At this point, It's important to note that the boosters 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:56.320 are going to be designed just to help the very 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.520 susceptible parts of the population increased our immune needing, to 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:02.880 keep them out of the hospital or suffering from severe 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.320 disease um. We heard that from the FDA last week. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.280 I've been listening in on the CDC and that's really 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.839 an ongoing theme. So boosters are going to be for 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:16.400 to keep people out of the hospital, and for a 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.600 short term, they'll be focused on individuals who got the 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.440 Visor vaccine initially. But don't be surprised if you hear 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.120 similar things coming from Maderna and for Johnson and Johnson 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.040 in the next coming weeks, because those companies are just 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.840 a few weeks behind Visor in terms of submitting their 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.839 paperwork to the FDA and the CDC. Dr Pekosh, where 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:37.160 do you think we are as a country when it 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.840 comes to the delta variant and the most recent wave 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.840 that we've seen, Because there is some chatter, especially in 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:46.319 recent days that that has indicated that some people who 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.000 are doing modeling are saying the worst could be behind us. 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.920 I think we've we've seen Delta make its first sweep 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.439 through the population did in the summer, and at times 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.280 when you know the virus isn't supposed to be spreading 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.320 as easily. So the only caveat that I have to 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:06.400 this is, you know, we really have to see how 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.880 things are going to work out now as kids are 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.080 back in school, as more people are back in the workplace, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:15.560 as we're moving indoors into environments that's easier for the 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.080 virus to spread. My one pushback, I would have to 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.320 that and correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't it 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.680 spread in places that we're really warm, where people would 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.720 be gathering inside anyway? Absolutely, and that's why I worry 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.560 that when we get into even better conditions for the 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.800 virus that the spread may kick up a little bit. 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.560 I'm certainly optimistic right now. I do think the worst 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.240 is behind us with Delta. I think we're seeing the 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:46.640 vaccines are holding their own against Delta, and so I'm 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:49.560 confident that we'll have um not as bad a fall 0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:52.440 as we have seen in the summer, so worse behind us, 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.200 But it doesn't mean that it doesn't continue to remind 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.040 us that we're still in a pandemic, that we still 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:01.080 have to be careful. And this is where the boosters 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:07.160 shouldn't distract us from the real goal of reducing cases 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:11.800 by vaccinating the unvaccinated, because that's where we're going to 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:15.120 really be be able to turn the corner on this pandemic. 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.480 We need to get more people vaccinated because that's going 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:22.400 to reduce virus spread, that's going to reduce case numbers. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.920 It's gonna let us get rid of some of these 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.160 public health and adventures that we have to have right now, 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.439 because even though we've got vaccinated people, the virus is 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.440 spreading so broadly and so strongly in the population that 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.760 we need more than just the vaccines to protect us. 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.480 What what is the best way to get those people 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.120 who even up to now, when vaccines have been available 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.280 for months and the incentives have been there and now 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.679 we're seeing mandates, how do you get those holdouts to 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.320 get vaccinated? Yeah, I really feel that, Um, there's a 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.160 good portion of the population that just here's all the 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.640 rhetoric and really is just a little confused and a 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.200 little bit taken aback and is not sure which way 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.600 to go because, UM, the misinformation can be just as 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:12.200 loud as the positive information. So it really comes down 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:16.559 to communication and redoubling our efforts and the efforts of 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.960 public health officials to make those more personal connections, those 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:25.679 small group connections. UM. I've had a lot of success 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:29.000 talking to people in groups of two or three here 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:33.360 at Johns Hopkins University, UH, talking to small groups in 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.600 webinars UM that we advertise over Twitter. UM, making those 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.560 kind of conversations so that individuals can really have that 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.360 one on one with you and understand the sincerity in 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.880 which you're passing along this really fantastic information about how 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.760 safe and efficacious these vaccines are. It's hard work and 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.200 getting the right information is so crucial to getting us 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.320 through this, uh in the right way. Hey, having said that, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.080 I've got a little bit of a were left arm, Tim, 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.439 I think maybe had a sore arm a couple of 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:05.679 weeks ago we got our flu shots. What do we 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.560 need to keep uh in mind when it comes to, 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.640 you know, the normal flu season, which kind of didn't 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.760 really happen during the pandemic because we were all sheltering 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.680 in place. Yeah, I think this year we're really keeping 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:25.000 our eye on influenza UM. The public health interventions really 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:30.200 did a great job of limiting viruses like influenza, even 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.200 common cold viruses UM for kids, of virus called RSV 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.880 or respiratory and cecial virus. They all those viruses were 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.880 really reduced during the pandemic UM. Now we're seeing some 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:45.880 these public health interventions relaxed, and we've already seen a 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.800 really big increase in rhinovirus is the common cold virus. 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.240 We're seeing a large increase in respiratories and cecial virus 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:59.360 and kids, and those two things usually mean that we'll 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:04.080 see influenza over the next couple of weeks. So the 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:07.080 vaccine is important to get this year more than ever 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.120 because we've gone some period of time without seeing a 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.240 lot of influenzas. There's a lot of susceptibility in the 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:18.680 population because we haven't had infections UM coming through the population. 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:22.520 And in particular this is important for younger populations because 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.320 they're the most vulnerable. They haven't seen influenza, many of 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.720 them haven't gotten a lot of influenza vaccines, and it's 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.120 that population that we really want to pay attention to 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:37.760 during the next couple of weeks. Get your flu shots exactly. No, no, 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.920 not at all. Dr Anye Andy Pekos, thank you so much, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:44.720 Professor of Molecular Microbiology and Immunology at Johns Hopkins University, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.880 Bloomberg School of Public Health. Supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:52.320 Founder of Bloomberg Alp and Bloomberg Philanthropies. This is Bloomberg 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:56.040 Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.720 Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We're gonna zero in on a 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:02.720 Walt Disney company. It's been Tim actually in the news 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:04.840 a lot this week, the stock moving as a results, 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:07.360 and times down sometimes up, writing about the company in 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:10.240 a Bloomberg Opinion pieces, our own Tim O'Brien's senior columnist 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.880 of Bloomberg Opinion, right next to us in our interactive brokers. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:14.040 So it is so good to be with you, so 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:16.040 good to be here. So tell us about Disney, because 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.280 they've been in the news a lot, bofeck talking a 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.280 bunch this week. Well, Disney is wrestling with a lot 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.200 of stuff at theme parks and the entertainment industry. But 0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.960 what I zoomed in on was it's it's increasingly close 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.400 embrace with sports betting. Uh, you know Disney is the 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.360 most wit what sports betting? That's right? And this is 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.360 a family centric company. Um, you know, sports betting has 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:41.440 been booming. The Supreme Court in eighteen basically broke up 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.800 Nevada's monopoly on sports betting. They've knocked down federal laws 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.920 that prevented other states from adopting it. And you wed 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:51.520 that to the Internet era where everyone can gamble on 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.080 their phones or through their televisions and their living rooms, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.120 and it is ubiquitous. It's growing. A lot of the 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.600 pure play sports betting companies have seen their market caps 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.199 explode from two billion to twenty four billion over a 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:09.200 two year period. And younger men do it, and Disney 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.880 wants to connect to those people. And what other property 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:15.600 does Disney have that younger men and younger women too? 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.359 But it's still it tilts towards mail. It's ESPN, the 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:24.919 powerhouse sports network, and now ESPN is forming. It already 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.359 has partnerships with companies that provide the odds. If you 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.040 turn into any ESPN broadcast, you now see what once 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:34.240 was a nomalous sports betting lines on your TV screen. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:39.880 But now Disney's pondering possibly licensing deals where there would 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.080 actually be bookmaking shops that have the ESPN brand. It 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.520 feels so like und right, I mean, how does the 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.680 company wrestle with this? This is a called the family 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.240 values focused company. We talked about casinos. These are you know, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.600 sin stocks that are in the same bucket as tobacco 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:56.760 companies in some cases well track betting right, and the 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.800 image of that conjurus right, you know, historically Bob Iger 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.679 sold with this. Now, Bob Jpeck is what they have 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:08.359 said is we would never fully bring sports gambling inside 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.800 the ESPN model, meaning I guess uh that you you 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:16.200 couldn't you know, pull, you couldn't gamble directly through any 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.639 ESPN properties. But they're offering then to sort of have 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:24.120 outside companies handle the gambling and having and the bet 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.160 and they'll just take a licensing fee and both of them. 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.200 You know. Bob set a version of that a couple 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.000 of years ago. Bob Jpek, who succeeded him, just this 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.880 week at a Goldman conference, said we would never embed 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:40.600 gambling in our products, but our audience likes it, our 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.880 users like it and frankly, you know, cable TV, it's 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.840 praying around the edges. Streaming is where it's at, and 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.480 and sports gambling is a hook and do a younger audience. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:53.720 You could so see it though, because of ESPN and 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:55.600 all their coverage, that it would be so easy to 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.520 embed it in right if you think about it. UM, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:02.879 tell us about Adam Schefter. Adam Scheckter, I'm sorry, Adam 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.040 Schefter is an ax. You know he is. He is 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:10.000 one of the He is the senior NFL insider on ESPN. 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.320 His stock and trade is breaking all sorts of news 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.879 and minutia and and gossipy news you can use about 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.119 trades and injuries and starting lineups, the kind of stuff 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.000 that sportsman fanatics really feast upon. He's got a massive 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:29.040 Twitter following eight point two million followers. Um. He also 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.240 is now investing alongside Bob Kraft, the owner of the 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:38.560 New England Patriot, in a little gambling startup. And well, 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:40.520 you know, I called up ESPN and I said, do 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.800 you folks have an ethics policy or guidelines about how 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.879 your employees invest outside the company? And they said, we 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.320 won't comment on that. Uh as to whether they had 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.920 a policy or whether Schefter violated because the issue hears 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.840 if you see him speaking on screen going forward, is 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.680 he talking his book so to speak, if he's got 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.480 an invent spend in a gambling company. Is he offering 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:07.880 unfiltered and objective information when he's a broadcast on ESPN. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:09.840 So we don't know if they're going to be putting 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:12.200 up a disclosure, if he's going to talk about a disclosure. 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.080 We don't know if he got a special exemption too. 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.160 I would imagine it's you know, this is ABC we're 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.000 talking about. They probably have rules in place. They ain't 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:26.560 saying tim and saying maybe with maybe you know, million 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.199 Twitter followers, then you know, you can kind of do 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.280 what you want. I also sort of wonder if they 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.120 were you know, maybe they didn't know he had this investment. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.119 It was just disclosed this week. Who knows what he 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.440 told his bosses. But but he has an individual if 0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.680 you know, if his relationship to viewers is I'm giving 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.520 you pure information that helps you enjoy the game more, 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:47.399 and then there's a group of gambles are like, well, 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.040 that also helps us make money more. And that's what 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.359 it's ultimately about, right, I mean, Disney trying to figure 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.080 out what is the Disney of the future and how 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.080 do you create new revenue streams? Correct? So this coming 0:20:57.080 --> 0:20:59.280 out of time when investors are a little concerned about 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:00.960 the growth of Disney US. We saw that play out 0:21:01.000 --> 0:21:04.680 in recent days. Would this be happening, Tim, this investment 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:06.119 be happening? Do you think if we wouldn't see the 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.320 decline of traditional pay TV, traditional cable TV just in 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.000 thirty seconds, sports betting is booming. So it might have 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.080 happened anyway, but they get the added two for one 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.199 benefit of also addressing some of their audience concerns. Do 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:18.639 you think it would have happened if Bob Iger were 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:22.800 still there? Possibly? Okay, so that they were certainly considering it. 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:25.000 Um good stuff, So great to have you come back. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.480 Love it, Love it. Tim O'Brien, senior columniste, Bloomberg Opinion. 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:31.240 I wonder if m Adam Schefter got called to the office. 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:35.240 Adam Schefter, could you come to the ESPN? Did you 0:21:35.280 --> 0:21:41.000 tell us about this company? Exactly? Check out Tim on 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.840 Twitter at Tim O'Brien of course, Bloomberg Opinion. Seen him 0:21:43.840 --> 0:21:53.200 your columnist in our Interactor Broker Studio. I'm oh journal, Yeah, 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:57.880 but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, all right, 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:09.240 please revel I want to drive. Drive by the questions, 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:20.200 trying the drive to the globe community. Thanks, we'll drying 0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:24.000 us Dawn on Bloomberg Radio. Isn't he just about ten 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.840 minutes left in today's trading session, So just a few 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:29.359 minutes to wrap up that Thursday trade. We are hovering 0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.560