WEBVTT - Ep. 010 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:06.080 Okay, everyone, thanks for joining us. This is the Meat 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:13.680 Eater podcast. We're recording out of Scottsdale, but not quite um. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:18.120 In the in the background, you might hear, if you're lucky, 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.120 a dog bang or barking. That's a that's a that's 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.279 a lion hunting dog owned by Floyd Green, who owns 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:29.680 and operates Outdoorsman's and wilderness Athlete and then his You 0:00:29.680 --> 0:00:32.360 guys are like, you guys consider yourself a business partners. Yeah, 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.800 and I don't think the whole world, you guys, whole 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:40.720 world is like convoluted to me. But also Chris Denham 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.640 of Western Hunter in for me from does Western Hunter 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:49.200 television show Western Hunter and Elk Hunter magazines managing editor, 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.240 what do you have change the titles? No, it's publisher. Good, 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:55.480 Floyd and I do. Actually we we we treat we're 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:03.480 co publishers as Western Yeah. Oh really chance. These guys, 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:08.400 these two guys are involved, like and I don't and 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:11.280 I don't tend to understand where one thing lets up 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.520 and where one thing ends and everything begins with. These 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.160 guys are very involved in a handful of brands and 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:20.800 companies and lifestyle things that I'm interested in is uh, 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:27.960 wilderness athletes, UM outdoorsmans like wilderness athletes, like performance hancing 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:34.959 performance enhancing products, UM outdoorsman's Optics is how you get 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:39.200 into that, right, optics, backpack systems, accessories and stuff. It 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.680 started you started on the optics business, start out the 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.560 gun business. Well really that's what all doors and begins guns, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:47.559 all right, and the at F shouldn't made me realize 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:49.480 that they'd probably be good to have a second occupation. 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:52.440 So that's how the optics think came up. That's where 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:57.480 the optics thinking. And then what has Western hunter has 0:01:57.520 --> 0:02:01.240 been around long time? Yeah? Yeah, basically it's funny em 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.960 Floyd got the optics business. I was a Surowski rep 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.320 and his first real order besides where Steiner was in 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:10.359 was Rovski and it was my Yeah, that's how we met. 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:12.520 But the first what I was doing my training with 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.160 the with the rep group. He gave me a little 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:16.600 bit of training the first day on the job and 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:17.920 he says, and I want to go to introduce you 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.480 to this this account over here in town. So we 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.040 drove over and he walked in and it was the 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.359 outdoors was Floyd. That day was my first day on 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.160 the job. As a rep and and he'd just gotten 0:02:28.160 --> 0:02:29.960 your first Rowski order. At the time, he had just 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.880 gotten his first Rowski order. And then you gets to 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:37.360 Lucia start of magazine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.480 decade before we started. It started out as a kind 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.160 of a catalog to talk about outdoors and products and 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.280 and you know, we put a couple of articles in 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.320 there and how to how to use this stuff, you know, 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.959 and uh and before you know that, people wanted to 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.440 advertise and they wanted more articles, and then we started 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.960 calling it a matalog and it grew into a magazine 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:01.000 and and it's been just a work in progress. I 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:04.080 told I told Floyd the story. But um, like I 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.440 remember so clearly the first time I ever had my 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.320 hands on an issue Western Hunter. So I went up 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:15.160 and seeing like dude sitting there with binoculars on tripods, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.560 which I now realized is like I don't like looking 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.480 through binoculars any other way, but sitting there like looking 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.679 on like flat, dry ass desert and be like, what 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:30.320 in the world are they looking for? That? Yeah, that 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:33.919 was quite a while ago. Yeah, so then and then 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.200 now Elk Hunter too, and I know Floyd and people 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.200 who watched the show media here probably with no Floyd 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:43.280 from we did a um we did an episode of 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:49.800 Floyd about hunting for mountain lions and went out twice. 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:53.000 Have you had to lay eyes on a mountain lion 0:03:53.040 --> 0:04:00.240 with Floyd? But it cured me forever of what not 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:03.480 cure me up? It made me antagonistic, almost to the 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.360 point of violence to anyone who wants to tell me 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.200 that there's no challenge in lion hunting. You know, I'm 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:15.000 telling you what, man, It's like, it's like, that's We'll 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.720 talk about that at another time, but um, I can't 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.600 wait with that with a very deep respective, but it 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:26.200 goes into the line on particularly the dry ground, the 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:30.520 no snow lion hunting different. Yeah. Um that that's a 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:38.400 whole other conversation. Chris So Chris denhim used to But 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:41.640 you were in the tag like the big game tag business. Yeah, 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.280 you know, I started an application business along with with 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.880 Western Hunter magazine, oh gosh, probably seven eight, nine years ago, 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.240 and they ran a tag service for about probably about 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.680 five or six years. So I finally got burned out 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.160 on that game. Just really it was an evolution, thank 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.640 you know. Elkiner magazine came along and did just it 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.840 just became too many things too to keep up, you know, 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.840 too many balls in the air constantly. Yeah, and it 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.560 really because I took my attention to people's tags was 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.320 just like my own. I was just paranoid. I was 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.839 constantly I couldn't I couldn't handle the stress that the 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.720 application because I was so afraid of making a mistaken 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.400 But I loved it in that it kept me, you know, 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.520 I was constantly researching, you know, looking at different ideas 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.080 and options. So I mean, I really enjoyed it in 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:31.840 that respect. But but it is a stressful business. So 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.120 just just to get some background what exactly we're talk about. 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:35.920 Were talking about tags, you guys, your people say like 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.800 play the tag game or tags or you know, applying 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:45.760 is most dates, all states in the West and more 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.719 and more states in the East allocate some number of 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:56.520 big game permits to through lotteries to applicants. Right, So 0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:01.320 whether it's you know, Michigan, Elk, much of Michigan Bear, 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.360 some areas for turkeys, you know, like Kentucky, Yellow, Pennsylvaniall 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.720 Loose ye yep, moose and Maine and then everywhere in 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:14.440 the West, in some states all big game tags. Virtually 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.720 all big game tags are awarded through some sort of 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:25.360 lottery where on a designated date, usually late winter, right, 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.119 you fill out an application and sending some amount of money. 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.960 It varies by state, and we'll talk about that. And 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.520 you're throwing your name in the hat to get to 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.159 get a tag, and then they do a drawing and 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:42.400 you find out whether or not you're going hunting. And 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.320 we get so many questions, like like through the show 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.320 and other things, that's so many questions from people who 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.279 are always just trying to make sense of this whole system. 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:57.400 I'm like, I'm newly familiar to it because when I 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.520 like everywhere, ever, when I lived in Montana, I was 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:01.880 hunt like the over the counter stuff. But more and 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.760 more you realize that the real dream hunts, you know, 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.120 like the great stuff you're gonna go do is is uh, 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.760 you gotta play the system. I mean, you gotta like 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:16.680 jump in there and try to figure it out. And 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.440 it's hard, I think for people to match it to 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:20.920 like whatever your budget might be or what your interests are, 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.440 so you got as much experience and this kind of 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.080 thing is anybody I know? So I kind of wanted 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.640 to run through sort of how does a guy who 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.320 knows that at some point right he's gonna go out 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:40.000 and do like a hunt, Like how do you begin 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.960 even thinking about this kind of stuff? And like where 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.280 where does a person spending money? Where? How much morneing 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.440 does it cost? Like how do you you know? What's 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.040 the tag plan? You know? The the first thing that 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.240 guy needs to do is starting the research end, you know, 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.240 And there's there's resources out there. Um, you know, traditionally 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:03.680 it was like hunt Ful Eastman's that all had you know, 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:08.680 information on different units, what the premier units were. But 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.480 then now you've got a lot of online stuff. Come on, 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.880 there's one hour right now called go hunt dot com. 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.480 They just came out this year, um, and they've got 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:19.040 some It's an incredible resource with maps. I mean, everything 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.440 you'd want to know about a unit, about a state, 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.320 about a species is all right there. You can break 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:26.880 it down which which units have archery tags, which units 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.720 have rifle tags. They just they've only been live about 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.600 ninety days and really it's an impressive program you've got. 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.480 But there's a lot of resources online. That Hunter's trailhead 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.120 that you said to you and I've talked about that 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.120 it's got all your your point points, what how many 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.800 points it might take to draw certain areas. But the 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.760 first thing I guy gotta do is allocate a budget. 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.200 And it because it is it really does come down 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.080 to money. You've got to spend some money. You told me, 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.079 like just like when you when you get into the 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:57.800 money thing. I had a conversation with you a couple 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:00.360 of years ago. We're tom about whether or not you 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:06.800 could ever draw a big horn tag, and you had 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.600 said something to me, if you can clarify your own point, 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.839 you said something to me to the effect of, if 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:13.880 a guy comes to me and he's in his I 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.800 can't remember his late forties, early fifties and says he 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:19.720 wants to start trying to get a big horn tag, 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.440 you tell him just take all that money now and 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:24.920 go up to a last and go on a dollar 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.400 sheep hunt, because you're gonna want to up spend that 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.199 much anyways, and you're not gonna get It's true, honestly, 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.840 and I've never actually done the math, but I think 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.040 I think it might it might actually be accurate. If 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:38.800 you took all the money you were going to spend on, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:43.760 you know, mandatory hunting licenses and preference points. Uh, it 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:45.800 took all that money and went and bought you know, 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:47.960 because it could be up to you're gonna be in 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.800 the two thousand range for that dollars for a sheep 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.360 for sheep applications, you could. I think if you went 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.079 down and bought two thousand dollars worth the lottery tickets, 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:02.080 you probably stand a better chance of winning a million 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.040 dollars in the lottery. Then you do a drawing a 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:05.640 sheep tag, you win a million dollars, and then you 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.760 go buy all those tags, you know, deals. It's a 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.480 it's a shame that that. It's it's a shame. It's 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.080 just the reality of what we live in nowadays is 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.320 that these tags are extremely rare and everybody knows about them. 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.080 For the most part. There's a lot of resources and 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:21.959 then there's just a lot of people applying for him, 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.080 and everybody wants a chance. Yeah. Actually, I think a 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:28.920 lot of the raffles that states have nowadays have better 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.160 odds sometimes than there than the Actually, remember you're saying 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:34.960 to me that the Colorado raffle, Like if a bighorn 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.280 raffle tag in Colorado, the money it costs you to 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.720 apply for a sheet tag in Colorado. If you spend 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:45.880 that money on raffle tickets, you you get to where 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:48.840 you have as good odds, and if you spend like 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.560 a little bit extra, you'd have more better odds than 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.320 you do in the regular draw absolutely, you know, especially 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:56.959 in those you know, four or five years ago. Unfortunatelybody 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:58.880 kind of figured this out too, is it. You know 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.160 there was three or fourth and tickets getting sold for 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.640 that raffle tag. If you went't spent fifteen hundred bucks, 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.120 you can get your odds up to five or six percent, 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.080 seven percent where's your odds? And then drawing, you know, 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.280 we're you know, down in the half percent to one percent. 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.240 I mean, it's literally twenty times better odds for you know, 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.440 twenty times more money. But at least you can't the 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.520 one thing we can't buy his time. So if you 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.600 can improve your odds by you know, twenty fold, you know, 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:26.480 and you've got the resources and you know it was 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.880 a wise move at the time, and you can craft me. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.320 But I think that a guy that writes for you guys, 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:35.040 Mike um like to plan do plan right. He did 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:39.280 that and one of those tags. He's the Colorado guy Yeah, 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.400 he's sawing about mule deer in Colorado, so yeah, so county. 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:46.360 And he drew big one big corn tag. He want 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.480 to stay wide, to stay wide and rocking mountain, big 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:53.760 horn tag and tremendous sheet yeah yeah, yeah, tremendous ramad 0:11:53.800 --> 0:11:58.880 like eleven thousand feet in October is a pretty epic story. Yeah, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.320 the lure of that stuff, Like what's so cool about 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:03.920 the limited draw things? Like the first limited draw teg 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.720 I re drew was a turkey limited draw, a tag 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.000 in the area that that was the first year they 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.840 ever allowed turkey hunting there. There's this place we used 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.440 to always hunt black bears, and I was like, man, 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.080 there's a ton of turkeys around here, but you couldn't 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.320 hunt them. Then one year, I just like get the 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.160 turkey book and looking they're given occumra what it was 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.400 twenty tags or fifteen tags this giant part of northwest Montana, 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:31.240 and drew it and went out there, and like people 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.360 are always talking about, yeah, these animals have never heard 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.240 a call. I can guarantee those birds never heard a 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.480 call because I was like the first hunt to occur there. 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:41.480 I drew that tag a number of times and it 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.600 was amazing. And it's like everybody dreams about getting these 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.520 situations that there's no other dudes around, you know, or 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.800 it's just like where it's like a pure hunt. You know, 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.319 you're just like you're hunting animals that aren't you're you're 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.520 not You're hunting animals that are doing something more than 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:59.080 just responding to other hunters. And certainly you can achieve that, 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.480 you know, with just like over the counter tags, But 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.319 when you start getting into the into the drawing units 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.920 is when I mean you get like just the magical, 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:12.240 magical spots that is the best. But you know, that's 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:15.240 the thing about the draws is it does put you 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.400 into a hunt where you're gonna have a lot less 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:21.880 competition for people, um and and then nowadays, honestly that's 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.400 really where the magic is for those hunts, because you know, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:26.679 even in Arizona, you know, we were Floyd and I've 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.240 been talking about it, how even are some of our 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.280 best elk units, in our best deer units are getting 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:36.240 pretty much overrun. I mean, there's just because hunters are 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.280 becoming so much more efficient. You know, we're hunting, you 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.000 might have two or three buddies out there with you 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.560 we've all got really good gear. Where a lot more 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.560 committed than we used to be. I mean it used 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.760 to be like an archery ol kunt in Arizona. If 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.440 you were out there on the weekends, you'd see people. 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.960 If you're out there on Wednesday, you were by yourself. Nowadays, 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.160 everybody's out there for the entire season. You know, they're 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.920 just hunted, like the whole vacation they burned. You feel 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.920 like you've noticed that in your life, Oh, absolutely absolutely. 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.000 I remember when the first time I ever drew an 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:07.760 archieolk tag. It was in six A, which is one 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.480 of our biggest units. Here's you know, more out tags. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:12.280 And I it was the first time I ever elk 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.360 kind And I'm from born and raised in southern Arizona, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.440 so I didn't even know anything about the woods. Uh 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.400 and uh Anyways, I it was a Wednesday, It was 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.040 a Wednesday in a hunting and on a Thursday, and 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.760 I got lost before GPS is I got lost, I 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.560 mean lost, bad lost. But you know your Arizona, you 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:30.240 can only walk two miles before you get hit another 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.640 road in uh. But I walked all freaking day before 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.440 I finally ran into somebody in a truck, you know, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.040 I mean during huts like the woods having want to 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:42.760 you know, nowadays you just stand there and listen. You'll 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:44.680 hear the roads, you know, because there'll be you can 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.080 hear trucks racing all through them. It's like we're saying, 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.640 like in a unit, same number of tags is always. 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.760 It just feels different now, it just feels totally different. Yeah, 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.800 everybody's just hunting longer, They're hunting harder. You know, they're 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.520 more committed because you're all reading Western Hunter. There's a 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.440 lot of and the friends thing, right, I mean, everybody 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.560 goes out there with the team now. And I felt 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.640 like I even noticed it in Unit ten. I'm the 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:11.640 only guy there three years and it might have been 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.000 just this one particular glass and now, but I felt 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:16.200 like the first year I was there, I felt like, Wow, 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.080 I got this great glass and knob and like there's 0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.080 no boot tracks up here, Like there's really no sign 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:22.760 and like, man, I'm looking at a lot of ELK. 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:27.000 Great two years later or two calendar years, but it 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.720 was the third season I got it there. I hike 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.760 up there when with a guy and there's already three 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.920 guys there, and then as it's getting line. I want 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.800 to say, like six guys showed up, and I mean 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.000 it was like this whole canyon room was covered up 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:42.320 with people with I mean there was a hundred thousand 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.880 dollars worth of optics sitting up there, you know. And 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.200 I'm looking at my guy like, well, those guys are 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:49.600 not hunting. They all have dudes down there hunting. You 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.400 and I need to leave because it's just you and I. 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.080 So I can't tell you to go somewhere, you know. 0:15:54.920 --> 0:16:00.320 So you know, in all of man years go, I 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.440 can remember we would be up there glass and people 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:05.320 walking around out there, and you'd see that another hunter 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.120 and you'd look him over read place to look at 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:08.400 his path, and you look at me. If you saw 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.440 a tripod, you think this guy's a threat. And then 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.440 you see a guy walking there's no trick pod. You 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.280 the guy. He's just taking his rifle for a hike. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.920 You know. It's just the intensity and the level and 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.520 the skill set that these guys have these days is 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:26.160 dramatically changed. It really is. It's a funny race. You know, 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.400 trail cameras, you know, I mean there's trail cameras everywhere. 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.040 You know, the big bulls the big bucks there are 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.200 all there's somebody's got a picture of almost all of them. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.360 They all think they're gonna kill that one, you know. 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.840 So they got all their buddies out there looking for 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.240 that bull. Everybody bull's got a name. You know. It's 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:43.480 a you know, not to be a downer, but it 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.640 is a little frustrating. Yeah. I remember someone saying that, Um, 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:51.080 they walked up to a a water hole here somewhere 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:53.840 in Arizona. It's kind of like a dozen trail cans 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.560 or something. Now, Floydnead floydne had a strip tag a 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.360 couple of years ago, and we were out there and 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.800 when he says strip, to tell me what you mean 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.679 by it's Arizona Strip, but up north of the Grand Canyon, 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.680 and it's it is the It as a density, it's 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.760 got more huge non typical meal deer than any other 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.400 place on Earth. It's you know, it's just an amazing place. 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.639 Lots of huge year The genetics are phenomenal. And we 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.600 were there in a Floyd drew in a really tough year. 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.200 I mean it was it had a really dry spring, 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.600 dry summer in the Antler development just wasn't very good. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.159 There was one buck we had found. But let me 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:31.280 let me pould you again, because this is an interesting 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.399 point that I never I had never even heard of 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:38.439 this till until we were talking earlier today. If you 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:41.800 guys get a drought or like a dry spell in 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.800 the right period of time, you see that in the 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.600 antlers of the animals, no doubt. Yeah, if it's if 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:49.919 you don't get the rain right, you know, right before 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.159 antlers drop, and then certainly all the way through that 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.919 growth phase, if there's not green stuff growing, then you know, 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.800 the the elk are really susceptible to it. But then 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:01.840 up on the strip it's a it's a desert, it's 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:03.960 a high desert up there. And if they don't get 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.080 it up there, and if they've got a late spring, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:08.000 it's cold and they don't get any green up early. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:10.359 You know, those bucks just don't put on the development. 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.439 I mean, it could be dramatic, you know, you know, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.040 it's like, yeah, I just never you know, coming from 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:18.199 I was living the North, you just never think of 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:23.600 water as a limiting factor. So anyways, so so Floyd 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:27.359 drew on a dry year. Right before we hear the 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.679 rest of that story, let's take a quick break. So 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:33.840 anyways where we there was one particular buck that Floyd 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.440 passed on the third day. Third day, of course, I'm Senegal. 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:38.720 We need to shoot this duer. We need to shoot 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.760 this dude. We need Floyd's like no ideverybody will do better. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.680 And Chris is I need to tell you find it. 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:45.960 Chris is complained about hunting with you that you never 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.119 want to shoot you. You'd just like to go and 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.920 look around. It's bad. We're looking at this bunk. I 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.360 thinking this box typical, you know. And he's got one 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.679 little he's got one little point that's sticking out. So 0:18:57.720 --> 0:18:59.920 we call the middle Finger because his points to stick 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.440 not like this. And uh so we find middle Finger 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:06.159 coming off this ridge and we know he's gonna hit 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:07.760 this water hole. He's got doze and his doz has 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:09.680 just got their heads down. They're gonna hit this water hole. 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.800 So we bust around the other side. It's gonna drop 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:14.119 into a hole. We're not gonna be able to see him. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.000 So we go right where we can see this this 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.520 water tank and it was a game of fish catchment. 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.640 Uh that was that surrounded by pipe and uh it's 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:25.480 a drinker there and then that drinker feeds into a 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:27.320 cattle drinker. Well, we're sure he's gonna come out to 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.120 the cattle drinker is closer that way. So we get 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:31.480 over there and we get set up and it's just 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:34.280 gray light. I mean, the sun's just set. But Arizona, 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:36.760 you got thirty more minutes, and we knew a bunch 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:38.760 of We saw a bunch of does coming off behind us, 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:40.680 and we know they're gonna hit this game and fish 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:42.720 water and they start jumping the fence into this game 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:45.520 and fish thing and the flashes they are going off 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.000 of the camera. I mean, it was like Britney Spears 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:52.440 just showed up kidding cameras and every one of them 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:56.040 got a couple of minute delay. It looked like firefloor. Yeah, 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:01.280 just this is in perfect vision from is it Britney Spears? 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.680 And you know what I mean, it's just there. It 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.560 was amazing how many cameras around that water hole, and 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.840 we could see seven or eight. We didn't want to 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:10.679 walk down to the water, so we were just lasting. 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.840 I'm seeing them on these you could see seven or 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.280 eight of them. They were everywhere on that water and 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.960 this and this water from the nearest gas station had 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:24.240 to be three hours three hours to the nearest gas station. 0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:27.080 You know, that's how remote this place was. And there's 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.200 that many cameras out there. See that. That's like just 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:34.440 to bring us around where we're not what we're talking about, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.400 but the bringing around the main stuff that I'm trying 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.440 to talk about is that's the kind of thing where 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.479 when you're looking at these applications and you're gonna applying 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:45.760 for stuff, that's the kind of thing you don't know, 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:53.600