1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Okay, everyone, thanks for joining us. This is the Meat 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: Eater podcast. We're recording out of Scottsdale, but not quite um. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: In the in the background, you might hear, if you're lucky, 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: a dog bang or barking. That's a that's a that's 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: a lion hunting dog owned by Floyd Green, who owns 6 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: and operates Outdoorsman's and wilderness Athlete and then his You 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: guys are like, you guys consider yourself a business partners. Yeah, 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: and I don't think the whole world, you guys, whole 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: world is like convoluted to me. But also Chris Denham 10 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: of Western Hunter in for me from does Western Hunter 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: television show Western Hunter and Elk Hunter magazines managing editor, 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: what do you have change the titles? No, it's publisher. Good, 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: Floyd and I do. Actually we we we treat we're 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: co publishers as Western Yeah. Oh really chance. These guys, 15 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: these two guys are involved, like and I don't and 16 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: I don't tend to understand where one thing lets up 17 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: and where one thing ends and everything begins with. These 18 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: guys are very involved in a handful of brands and 19 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: companies and lifestyle things that I'm interested in is uh, 20 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: wilderness athletes, UM outdoorsmans like wilderness athletes, like performance hancing 21 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: performance enhancing products, UM outdoorsman's Optics is how you get 22 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: into that, right, optics, backpack systems, accessories and stuff. It 23 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: started you started on the optics business, start out the 24 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: gun business. Well really that's what all doors and begins guns, 25 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 1: all right, and the at F shouldn't made me realize 26 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: that they'd probably be good to have a second occupation. 27 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: So that's how the optics think came up. That's where 28 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: the optics thinking. And then what has Western hunter has 29 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: been around long time? Yeah? Yeah, basically it's funny em 30 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: Floyd got the optics business. I was a Surowski rep 31 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: and his first real order besides where Steiner was in 32 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: was Rovski and it was my Yeah, that's how we met. 33 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: But the first what I was doing my training with 34 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: the with the rep group. He gave me a little 35 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: bit of training the first day on the job and 36 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: he says, and I want to go to introduce you 37 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: to this this account over here in town. So we 38 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: drove over and he walked in and it was the 39 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: outdoors was Floyd. That day was my first day on 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: the job. As a rep and and he'd just gotten 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: your first Rowski order. At the time, he had just 42 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: gotten his first Rowski order. And then you gets to 43 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: Lucia start of magazine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was a 44 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: decade before we started. It started out as a kind 45 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: of a catalog to talk about outdoors and products and 46 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: and you know, we put a couple of articles in 47 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: there and how to how to use this stuff, you know, 48 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: and uh and before you know that, people wanted to 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: advertise and they wanted more articles, and then we started 50 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: calling it a matalog and it grew into a magazine 51 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: and and it's been just a work in progress. I 52 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: told I told Floyd the story. But um, like I 53 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: remember so clearly the first time I ever had my 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: hands on an issue Western Hunter. So I went up 55 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: and seeing like dude sitting there with binoculars on tripods, 56 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: which I now realized is like I don't like looking 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: through binoculars any other way, but sitting there like looking 58 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,679 Speaker 1: on like flat, dry ass desert and be like, what 59 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: in the world are they looking for? That? Yeah, that 60 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: was quite a while ago. Yeah, so then and then 61 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: now Elk Hunter too, and I know Floyd and people 62 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: who watched the show media here probably with no Floyd 63 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: from we did a um we did an episode of 64 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: Floyd about hunting for mountain lions and went out twice. 65 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: Have you had to lay eyes on a mountain lion 66 00:03:53,040 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: with Floyd? But it cured me forever of what not 67 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: cure me up? It made me antagonistic, almost to the 68 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: point of violence to anyone who wants to tell me 69 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: that there's no challenge in lion hunting. You know, I'm 70 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: telling you what, man, It's like, it's like, that's We'll 71 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: talk about that at another time, but um, I can't 72 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 1: wait with that with a very deep respective, but it 73 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: goes into the line on particularly the dry ground, the 74 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: no snow lion hunting different. Yeah. Um that that's a 75 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 1: whole other conversation. Chris So Chris denhim used to But 76 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: you were in the tag like the big game tag business. Yeah, 77 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, I started an application business along with with 78 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: Western Hunter magazine, oh gosh, probably seven eight, nine years ago, 79 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 1: and they ran a tag service for about probably about 80 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: five or six years. So I finally got burned out 81 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,160 Speaker 1: on that game. Just really it was an evolution, thank 82 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: you know. Elkiner magazine came along and did just it 83 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: just became too many things too to keep up, you know, 84 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: too many balls in the air constantly. Yeah, and it 85 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: really because I took my attention to people's tags was 86 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: just like my own. I was just paranoid. I was 87 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: constantly I couldn't I couldn't handle the stress that the 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: application because I was so afraid of making a mistaken 89 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: But I loved it in that it kept me, you know, 90 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: I was constantly researching, you know, looking at different ideas 91 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: and options. So I mean, I really enjoyed it in 92 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: that respect. But but it is a stressful business. So 93 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: just just to get some background what exactly we're talk about. 94 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: Were talking about tags, you guys, your people say like 95 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: play the tag game or tags or you know, applying 96 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: is most dates, all states in the West and more 97 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 1: and more states in the East allocate some number of 98 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: big game permits to through lotteries to applicants. Right, So 99 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, Michigan, Elk, much of Michigan Bear, 100 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: some areas for turkeys, you know, like Kentucky, Yellow, Pennsylvaniall 101 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 1: Loose ye yep, moose and Maine and then everywhere in 102 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: the West, in some states all big game tags. Virtually 103 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 1: all big game tags are awarded through some sort of 104 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: lottery where on a designated date, usually late winter, right, 105 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,119 Speaker 1: you fill out an application and sending some amount of money. 106 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: It varies by state, and we'll talk about that. And 107 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: you're throwing your name in the hat to get to 108 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: get a tag, and then they do a drawing and 109 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: you find out whether or not you're going hunting. And 110 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: we get so many questions, like like through the show 111 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: and other things, that's so many questions from people who 112 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: are always just trying to make sense of this whole system. 113 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm newly familiar to it because when I 114 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: like everywhere, ever, when I lived in Montana, I was 115 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: hunt like the over the counter stuff. But more and 116 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: more you realize that the real dream hunts, you know, 117 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: like the great stuff you're gonna go do is is uh, 118 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: you gotta play the system. I mean, you gotta like 119 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: jump in there and try to figure it out. And 120 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: it's hard, I think for people to match it to 121 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: like whatever your budget might be or what your interests are, 122 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: so you got as much experience and this kind of 123 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: thing is anybody I know? So I kind of wanted 124 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: to run through sort of how does a guy who 125 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: knows that at some point right he's gonna go out 126 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: and do like a hunt, Like how do you begin 127 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: even thinking about this kind of stuff? And like where 128 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 1: where does a person spending money? Where? How much morneing 129 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: does it cost? Like how do you you know? What's 130 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: the tag plan? You know? The the first thing that 131 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: guy needs to do is starting the research end, you know, 132 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: And there's there's resources out there. Um, you know, traditionally 133 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: it was like hunt Ful Eastman's that all had you know, 134 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: information on different units, what the premier units were. But 135 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: then now you've got a lot of online stuff. Come on, 136 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: there's one hour right now called go hunt dot com. 137 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: They just came out this year, um, and they've got 138 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: some It's an incredible resource with maps. I mean, everything 139 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: you'd want to know about a unit, about a state, 140 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: about a species is all right there. You can break 141 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: it down which which units have archery tags, which units 142 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: have rifle tags. They just they've only been live about 143 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: ninety days and really it's an impressive program you've got. 144 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of resources online. That Hunter's trailhead 145 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: that you said to you and I've talked about that 146 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: it's got all your your point points, what how many 147 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: points it might take to draw certain areas. But the 148 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: first thing I guy gotta do is allocate a budget. 149 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: And it because it is it really does come down 150 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: to money. You've got to spend some money. You told me, 151 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: like just like when you when you get into the 152 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: money thing. I had a conversation with you a couple 153 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: of years ago. We're tom about whether or not you 154 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: could ever draw a big horn tag, and you had 155 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: said something to me, if you can clarify your own point, 156 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: you said something to me to the effect of, if 157 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: a guy comes to me and he's in his I 158 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: can't remember his late forties, early fifties and says he 159 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: wants to start trying to get a big horn tag, 160 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: you tell him just take all that money now and 161 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: go up to a last and go on a dollar 162 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: sheep hunt, because you're gonna want to up spend that 163 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 1: much anyways, and you're not gonna get It's true, honestly, 164 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: and I've never actually done the math, but I think 165 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: I think it might it might actually be accurate. If 166 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: you took all the money you were going to spend on, 167 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, mandatory hunting licenses and preference points. Uh, it 168 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: took all that money and went and bought you know, 169 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: because it could be up to you're gonna be in 170 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: the two thousand range for that dollars for a sheep 171 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: for sheep applications, you could. I think if you went 172 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: down and bought two thousand dollars worth the lottery tickets, 173 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: you probably stand a better chance of winning a million 174 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: dollars in the lottery. Then you do a drawing a 175 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: sheep tag, you win a million dollars, and then you 176 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: go buy all those tags, you know, deals. It's a 177 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: it's a shame that that. It's it's a shame. It's 178 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: just the reality of what we live in nowadays is 179 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: that these tags are extremely rare and everybody knows about them. 180 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: For the most part. There's a lot of resources and 181 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: then there's just a lot of people applying for him, 182 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: and everybody wants a chance. Yeah. Actually, I think a 183 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: lot of the raffles that states have nowadays have better 184 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: odds sometimes than there than the Actually, remember you're saying 185 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: to me that the Colorado raffle, Like if a bighorn 186 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: raffle tag in Colorado, the money it costs you to 187 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: apply for a sheet tag in Colorado. If you spend 188 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: that money on raffle tickets, you you get to where 189 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: you have as good odds, and if you spend like 190 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: a little bit extra, you'd have more better odds than 191 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: you do in the regular draw absolutely, you know, especially 192 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: in those you know, four or five years ago. Unfortunatelybody 193 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: kind of figured this out too, is it. You know 194 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: there was three or fourth and tickets getting sold for 195 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: that raffle tag. If you went't spent fifteen hundred bucks, 196 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: you can get your odds up to five or six percent, 197 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 1: seven percent where's your odds? And then drawing, you know, 198 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: we're you know, down in the half percent to one percent. 199 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it's literally twenty times better odds for you know, 200 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: twenty times more money. But at least you can't the 201 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: one thing we can't buy his time. So if you 202 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: can improve your odds by you know, twenty fold, you know, 203 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: and you've got the resources and you know it was 204 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: a wise move at the time, and you can craft me. 205 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: But I think that a guy that writes for you guys, 206 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: Mike um like to plan do plan right. He did 207 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: that and one of those tags. He's the Colorado guy Yeah, 208 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: he's sawing about mule deer in Colorado, so yeah, so county. 209 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: And he drew big one big corn tag. He want 210 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: to stay wide, to stay wide and rocking mountain, big 211 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: horn tag and tremendous sheet yeah yeah, yeah, tremendous ramad 212 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: like eleven thousand feet in October is a pretty epic story. Yeah, 213 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: the lure of that stuff, Like what's so cool about 214 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: the limited draw things? Like the first limited draw teg 215 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: I re drew was a turkey limited draw, a tag 216 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: in the area that that was the first year they 217 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: ever allowed turkey hunting there. There's this place we used 218 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: to always hunt black bears, and I was like, man, 219 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: there's a ton of turkeys around here, but you couldn't 220 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: hunt them. Then one year, I just like get the 221 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: turkey book and looking they're given occumra what it was 222 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: twenty tags or fifteen tags this giant part of northwest Montana, 223 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 1: and drew it and went out there, and like people 224 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: are always talking about, yeah, these animals have never heard 225 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: a call. I can guarantee those birds never heard a 226 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: call because I was like the first hunt to occur there. 227 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: I drew that tag a number of times and it 228 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: was amazing. And it's like everybody dreams about getting these 229 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: situations that there's no other dudes around, you know, or 230 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: it's just like where it's like a pure hunt. You know, 231 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,319 Speaker 1: you're just like you're hunting animals that aren't you're you're 232 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: not You're hunting animals that are doing something more than 233 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: just responding to other hunters. And certainly you can achieve that, 234 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: you know, with just like over the counter tags, But 235 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: when you start getting into the into the drawing units 236 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: is when I mean you get like just the magical, 237 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: magical spots that is the best. But you know, that's 238 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: the thing about the draws is it does put you 239 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: into a hunt where you're gonna have a lot less 240 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: competition for people, um and and then nowadays, honestly that's 241 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: really where the magic is for those hunts, because you know, 242 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 1: even in Arizona, you know, we were Floyd and I've 243 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: been talking about it, how even are some of our 244 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: best elk units, in our best deer units are getting 245 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: pretty much overrun. I mean, there's just because hunters are 246 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: becoming so much more efficient. You know, we're hunting, you 247 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: might have two or three buddies out there with you 248 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: we've all got really good gear. Where a lot more 249 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: committed than we used to be. I mean it used 250 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: to be like an archery ol kunt in Arizona. If 251 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: you were out there on the weekends, you'd see people. 252 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: If you're out there on Wednesday, you were by yourself. Nowadays, 253 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: everybody's out there for the entire season. You know, they're 254 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: just hunted, like the whole vacation they burned. You feel 255 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: like you've noticed that in your life, Oh, absolutely absolutely. 256 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: I remember when the first time I ever drew an 257 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: archieolk tag. It was in six A, which is one 258 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: of our biggest units. Here's you know, more out tags. 259 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: And I it was the first time I ever elk 260 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: kind And I'm from born and raised in southern Arizona, 261 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: so I didn't even know anything about the woods. Uh 262 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: and uh Anyways, I it was a Wednesday, It was 263 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: a Wednesday in a hunting and on a Thursday, and 264 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: I got lost before GPS is I got lost, I 265 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: mean lost, bad lost. But you know your Arizona, you 266 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: can only walk two miles before you get hit another 267 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:33,640 Speaker 1: road in uh. But I walked all freaking day before 268 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: I finally ran into somebody in a truck, you know, 269 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: I mean during huts like the woods having want to 270 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: you know, nowadays you just stand there and listen. You'll 271 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: hear the roads, you know, because there'll be you can 272 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: hear trucks racing all through them. It's like we're saying, 273 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: like in a unit, same number of tags is always. 274 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: It just feels different now, it just feels totally different. Yeah, 275 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: everybody's just hunting longer, They're hunting harder. You know, they're 276 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: more committed because you're all reading Western Hunter. There's a 277 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: lot of and the friends thing, right, I mean, everybody 278 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: goes out there with the team now. And I felt 279 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: like I even noticed it in Unit ten. I'm the 280 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: only guy there three years and it might have been 281 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: just this one particular glass and now, but I felt 282 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 1: like the first year I was there, I felt like, Wow, 283 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: I got this great glass and knob and like there's 284 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: no boot tracks up here, Like there's really no sign 285 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: and like, man, I'm looking at a lot of ELK. 286 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: Great two years later or two calendar years, but it 287 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: was the third season I got it there. I hike 288 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: up there when with a guy and there's already three 289 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: guys there, and then as it's getting line. I want 290 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: to say, like six guys showed up, and I mean 291 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: it was like this whole canyon room was covered up 292 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: with people with I mean there was a hundred thousand 293 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: dollars worth of optics sitting up there, you know. And 294 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: I'm looking at my guy like, well, those guys are 295 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: not hunting. They all have dudes down there hunting. You 296 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: and I need to leave because it's just you and I. 297 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: So I can't tell you to go somewhere, you know. 298 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: So you know, in all of man years go, I 299 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: can remember we would be up there glass and people 300 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: walking around out there, and you'd see that another hunter 301 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 1: and you'd look him over read place to look at 302 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: his path, and you look at me. If you saw 303 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: a tripod, you think this guy's a threat. And then 304 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: you see a guy walking there's no trick pod. You 305 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: the guy. He's just taking his rifle for a hike. 306 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: You know. It's just the intensity and the level and 307 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: the skill set that these guys have these days is 308 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: dramatically changed. It really is. It's a funny race. You know, 309 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: trail cameras, you know, I mean there's trail cameras everywhere. 310 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: You know, the big bulls the big bucks there are 311 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: all there's somebody's got a picture of almost all of them. 312 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: They all think they're gonna kill that one, you know. 313 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: So they got all their buddies out there looking for 314 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: that bull. Everybody bull's got a name. You know. It's 315 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: a you know, not to be a downer, but it 316 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: is a little frustrating. Yeah. I remember someone saying that, Um, 317 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: they walked up to a a water hole here somewhere 318 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: in Arizona. It's kind of like a dozen trail cans 319 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: or something. Now, Floydnead floydne had a strip tag a 320 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, and we were out there and 321 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: when he says strip, to tell me what you mean 322 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: by it's Arizona Strip, but up north of the Grand Canyon, 323 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: and it's it is the It as a density, it's 324 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: got more huge non typical meal deer than any other 325 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: place on Earth. It's you know, it's just an amazing place. 326 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: Lots of huge year The genetics are phenomenal. And we 327 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: were there in a Floyd drew in a really tough year. 328 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: I mean it was it had a really dry spring, 329 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: dry summer in the Antler development just wasn't very good. 330 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: There was one buck we had found. But let me 331 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: let me pould you again, because this is an interesting 332 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: point that I never I had never even heard of 333 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: this till until we were talking earlier today. If you 334 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: guys get a drought or like a dry spell in 335 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: the right period of time, you see that in the 336 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: antlers of the animals, no doubt. Yeah, if it's if 337 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: you don't get the rain right, you know, right before 338 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: antlers drop, and then certainly all the way through that 339 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: growth phase, if there's not green stuff growing, then you know, 340 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: the the elk are really susceptible to it. But then 341 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 1: up on the strip it's a it's a desert, it's 342 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: a high desert up there. And if they don't get 343 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: it up there, and if they've got a late spring, 344 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: it's cold and they don't get any green up early. 345 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: You know, those bucks just don't put on the development. 346 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: I mean, it could be dramatic, you know, you know, 347 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I just never you know, coming from 348 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: I was living the North, you just never think of 349 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: water as a limiting factor. So anyways, so so Floyd 350 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: drew on a dry year. Right before we hear the 351 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: rest of that story, let's take a quick break. So 352 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: anyways where we there was one particular buck that Floyd 353 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: passed on the third day. Third day, of course, I'm Senegal. 354 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: We need to shoot this duer. We need to shoot 355 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: this dude. We need Floyd's like no ideverybody will do better. 356 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: And Chris is I need to tell you find it. 357 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: Chris is complained about hunting with you that you never 358 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: want to shoot you. You'd just like to go and 359 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: look around. It's bad. We're looking at this bunk. I 360 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: thinking this box typical, you know. And he's got one 361 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,679 Speaker 1: little he's got one little point that's sticking out. So 362 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: we call the middle Finger because his points to stick 363 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: not like this. And uh so we find middle Finger 364 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,159 Speaker 1: coming off this ridge and we know he's gonna hit 365 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 1: this water hole. He's got doze and his doz has 366 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: just got their heads down. They're gonna hit this water hole. 367 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: So we bust around the other side. It's gonna drop 368 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: into a hole. We're not gonna be able to see him. 369 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: So we go right where we can see this this 370 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: water tank and it was a game of fish catchment. 371 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: Uh that was that surrounded by pipe and uh it's 372 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: a drinker there and then that drinker feeds into a 373 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: cattle drinker. Well, we're sure he's gonna come out to 374 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: the cattle drinker is closer that way. So we get 375 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: over there and we get set up and it's just 376 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: gray light. I mean, the sun's just set. But Arizona, 377 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: you got thirty more minutes, and we knew a bunch 378 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: of We saw a bunch of does coming off behind us, 379 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:40,680 Speaker 1: and we know they're gonna hit this game and fish 380 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: water and they start jumping the fence into this game 381 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: and fish thing and the flashes they are going off 382 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: of the camera. I mean, it was like Britney Spears 383 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: just showed up kidding cameras and every one of them 384 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: got a couple of minute delay. It looked like firefloor. Yeah, 385 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: just this is in perfect vision from is it Britney Spears? 386 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: And you know what I mean, it's just there. It 387 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: was amazing how many cameras around that water hole, and 388 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: we could see seven or eight. We didn't want to 389 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: walk down to the water, so we were just lasting. 390 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 1: I'm seeing them on these you could see seven or 391 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: eight of them. They were everywhere on that water and 392 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: this and this water from the nearest gas station had 393 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: to be three hours three hours to the nearest gas station. 394 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: You know, that's how remote this place was. And there's 395 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: that many cameras out there. See that. That's like just 396 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: to bring us around where we're not what we're talking about, 397 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: but the bringing around the main stuff that I'm trying 398 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 1: to talk about is that's the kind of thing where 399 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 1: when you're looking at these applications and you're gonna applying 400 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: for stuff, that's the kind of thing you don't know, 401 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: you know. And so there's like, for instance, I drew 402 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: a musk like I drew a muskox. I had a 403 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: muskox tag this year that I went and hunted on, 404 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 1: But I drew the same tag on New Nevak Island 405 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: in Alaska in two thousand ten. I think I had 406 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: the tag I just put in, like, oh, I go 407 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: hunt muskox, put in a unit knowing nothing about it, okay, 408 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: and then later learn that that unit, by law, which 409 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: it says nothing about this in the REGs, but that 410 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: unit by law, you have to hire a transporter or 411 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: guide because the only place to land on New Nevak 412 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: Island is in the town of mccoriak. In the town 413 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: of mccoriak, happens to be a native corporation is chupa Eskimo. 414 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: You can't get on the island without landing on their land, 415 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,360 Speaker 1: and so they have a thing that you're gonna hunt 416 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: out of there. You gotta hire one of them as 417 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: a guide. So you put in your thing thinking like 418 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know, you look at the map of 419 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: the island, it's all federal land. You're like sweet public land, 420 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: Muskox hunt. But then the minute you start, you drawn 421 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: the tag and you're like, not quite, man, it's a 422 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: little more complicated that. In fact, you need a few 423 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: more thousand dollars if you're gonna do this thing. It's 424 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: like hard to know that kind of stuff. And so 425 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: it kind of comes around, like we're talking about with 426 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: Chris being like, uh, doing a tag services and help 427 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 1: people wade through all this stuff. And so often people 428 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: that do the permit draw game, there's some units people want. 429 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,400 Speaker 1: They're just gonna kill. You have the potential to kill 430 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: like a giant animal. Personally, I'll trying to look as 431 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: much as that's something i'm interested in. Like when I 432 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: do my Montana application, I always put in like a 433 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: unit I'll never be hunted, and I know it's like 434 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: something they want to kill a big mule here, and 435 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: there's a big multar unit Montana. I put that down. 436 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: At other times when I'm doing like a mountain goat unite, 437 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: I don't really care. Like, you know, if I had 438 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: like a record book mountain goo It's not gonna be 439 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: like my potential record. But muscos, this is not something 440 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: that's gonna come up in conversation very often. When I'm 441 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: picking a mountago at unit, I'm thinking of where is 442 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: it gonna be the most fun to hunt, you know, 443 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: I mean like where is the best chance of seeing 444 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: no other person around? You know, So there's these different 445 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: little things you're trying to weigh out. Yeah, I think 446 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: that would be my number one piece of advice to 447 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: two serious hunters when it comes the application game. Is 448 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: pick out areas that you you know that have those 449 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: dream hunts. You know, to seventy in Montana from meal deer, 450 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, and in to thirty one in Nevada from 451 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: meal deer, the Henrias and Aria in in Utah. There's 452 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 1: a strip in Arizona, but really that kind of the 453 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: big meal deer around those are the big Yeah, we're 454 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: kind of missed the Ponts agout and of course half 455 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: of Colorado. But but but look for areas that you 456 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: know putting for those dream hunts. But look for areas 457 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: where you think you can draw a tag if you 458 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: can come out west or if you live out west 459 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: and hunt every year or every other year. Look for 460 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: those areas that you could hunt every year every other year, 461 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: because I really do believe that a guy like Colorado 462 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,880 Speaker 1: is a classic. There's there's been a Buda Crocket deer 463 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: killed in every county in Colorado. I mean, there are 464 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: some units that are far better than others, certainly for 465 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: overall quality, but everyone of them has the potential to 466 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,399 Speaker 1: produce a monster. And if a hunter would pick a 467 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: unit in Colorado that he can hunt every year or 468 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: every other year and come out and do that, he 469 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: will kill a monster buck long before the next guy 470 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: ever draws, you know, one of the premier units. Yeah, 471 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: before you accumulate you're like eighteen points, at which point 472 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: you've never even for eighteen years, you don't even know 473 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: what the hell you're doing. It's really like, you just 474 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: need to know what your goal is, because if your 475 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: goal is like whatever it is, that one nine or 476 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: just a big mule here that looks big to you. 477 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 1: You don't need to go to the Henry's or the 478 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: Kaibab to do that, Like you're saying, you can go 479 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: to probably half of Wyoming and you know, half of Colorado. 480 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen it, you know, guy Nail Cunters. 481 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 1: I mean, everyone of them thinks they want to kill 482 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: a monster, and then you show him a three ten bowl, 483 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: three twenty bowl, and all of a sudden, their whole 484 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: idea of a monster just got redefined because that bowl 485 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: is a monster. You know, they actually get one in 486 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: front of him. Oh no, where I got it. We 487 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,640 Speaker 1: would like pass on a five point the first day 488 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: and then on the second day four point. I guess 489 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: kind of like in Arizona. Might be a little different 490 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: out but I think way too many guys are looking 491 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: for what you know, the magic hunt in the magic draw, 492 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: the magic unit and not realizing they're trying. Are forgetting 493 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: the fact that hunting skills are something are only acquired 494 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: through experience. You're not gonna get it sitting you know, 495 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: you can read Western Hunter Magazine all you want, you know, 496 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: I'd love to think you could learn everything you need 497 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,239 Speaker 1: to learn, but you can. You guys want to give 498 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: GPS coordinates in there. No, we don't even give units. 499 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: We don't even talk about units. But I always feel 500 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: like I always feel like calling you to ask you 501 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: where some of these articles happen. But I feel it 502 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: could be unfair. I might tell you if you put 503 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 1: it on the podcast. You know we were talking about Uh, 504 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: I'm addressed, and the listener not you. Guys. There's like 505 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: long shot units, and then there's like within the draw spectrum. Okay, 506 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: you have long shot units where you might have a 507 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: half percent, quarter whatever chance to draw the tag, and 508 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: then you have something that you'll hear the term and 509 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: undersubscribed unit. Undersubscribed units where your States Fishing Game Agency says, 510 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: let's they say, okay, where you have about one elk 511 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: tags in this area. But traditionally only guys ever even 512 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: put in right. So it's we'll say it's like a 513 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: guaranteed draw, meaning theoretically you could not get it if 514 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: if interest suddenly spike, but just every year, not enough 515 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: people do. But there's no over the counter option, so 516 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: if you don't hit the deadline and fill out your application, 517 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: you won't get the tag. Some states will sell those 518 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: leftovers where they call the surplus. They'll sell them on 519 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: a first come, first served basis. Some states that's just it. 520 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: It's like if you don't put in, you don't get it. 521 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: And so a lot of times you hear of a 522 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: guy it'll be summertime. This happens to me all the time. 523 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: You hear from some guy in June or Joe is 524 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: gonna go elk hunt in this year. And you always 525 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: want to be like, well, you already like you already 526 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: missed out of the state's opportunities in the States because 527 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 1: just didn't do your thing on time. It's not that 528 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: you can't go if you put it in, because you 529 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: can't like you're saying you can go hunt. You can 530 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: go hunt elk in Colorado every year. These thing when 531 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: when when you and I when Chris, when you and 532 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: I have spoken about hunting Arizona, your feelings about Arizona, 533 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: or like hunt couster in Arizona, because you can spend 534 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: all this time trying to get a muleder tag in Arizona. Meanwhile, 535 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: you can go on a deer hunt every year every year. 536 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: I mean at the the unit with the unit you 537 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: and I both had this year were success on the draw. 538 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there's we have probably ten or 539 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: twelve couster units every year. They go undersubscribed on the 540 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: first and second choice. You mean you could draw him 541 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 1: on a third choice. You could hunt the thing every 542 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: year every year. Yeah, So like play, like doing tags 543 00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: and lottery draws. It's not just it's not just about 544 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: that year in eighteen years or whatever, gonna get this 545 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: chance to go like a big one. It's also just 546 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 1: like are you able to hunt or not just go 547 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: hunting because I I've just I've watched so many guys 548 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: over the years that they're they're hunting skills just basically 549 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: deteriorate because they're sitting around waiting for a magical tag 550 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: that may or may never come, you know, and even 551 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: the best units, even that, you know, even the strip, 552 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: as good as that is and as much hard work 553 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: as everybody puts into that, the success on the hunt 554 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: each year is only around So guys, wait, literally, you know, 555 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: a hunter's lifetime for a tag, and only a little 556 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: better than half of those hunters actually kill a deer, 557 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: And those those that kill a deer, maybe half of 558 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: them kill a deer. That they dreamed of. So sev 559 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: of the people that draw that tag go away in 560 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: some sense of that. We're disappointed, but you think a 561 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: lot of them don't show up. No, I go some 562 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: of those every year because you know, with an organization 563 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: I work with the Outdoor Experience for All where people 564 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: can donate tags to us if they can't come. Uh, 565 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: it usually runs two to five percent. You know, for drugs. 566 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: There really are guys that are out there hunting that 567 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: are not just can't make it for one reason or another. 568 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: You know, whether it's you know, they just had a 569 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: new baby in the house, or you know, their daughter 570 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,240 Speaker 1: decided to get married right in the middle hunting season, 571 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: or some travesty like that. But yeah, it does happen. 572 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: The guys just don't even show up, you know. And 573 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: you had and didn't kill one, right, No, we never 574 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: shot twice twice do table lifetime. So what happens when 575 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: you go at what happens when you go up there? 576 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: You look at a lot of deer, then you could 577 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: fly the area that yeah, fluid along. I've looked at 578 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: a lot of big deer. I've been involved with some 579 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: big deer that have been taken up there. The deer 580 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: we passed, you know, a hundred ninety bug. But when 581 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: you go up there, it's a special place to me, 582 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: and you know, in hindsight, I would have probably shot 583 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: the hundred ninety in deer, but you never know when 584 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: you might see a two forty type deer. That year 585 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: was particularly there was a few deer shot in that category, 586 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: but very limited. Jess onlines up there some not a 587 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: whole bunch, not a whole bunch, but when you flew it, 588 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: you flew it looking for mule deer right and saw 589 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: lots of things. Well, actually I went up there with 590 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: knowing there was five larger deer there and saw three 591 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: deer that would break to two thirty mark. So when 592 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: you know they're there and you know the place says 593 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: that kind of genetic capability, it's really hard for me 594 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: to shoot a smaller deer. And I don't, you know, 595 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: Chris like Chris and I actually fun with it, but 596 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: I really don't ever feel like I need to shoot anything, 597 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: and I you know, I kind of enjoyed that. It's uh, 598 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: I think we've about gave Nate and anders On that hunt. 599 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: To me, it's so refreshing. Actually, did you know to 600 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: hear you say that, you know that you can just 601 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: go out there and just have a great time was 602 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: such high stakes and come away with no deer and 603 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: be like that was awesome. We certainly get to hunt 604 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: the whole hunt. I'm always teaching that was nine days, 605 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: ten days todays, not hunt at all other than the 606 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: mental aspect. But the country for the most parts just 607 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: not It's not the challenge. I mean, it's not a 608 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 1: lot of It's not like a lot of up and 609 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: down stage and secret country. You just you're pounded and pounded, 610 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: your tires take a beating. But you know, you know, 611 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: I make fun of flu because they tease them about 612 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: not shooting that deer, but kind of think about all 613 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: the stories we would have missed out on the storytelling 614 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: time we had. It would have it would have been 615 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 1: almost a travesty if we shot that deer on the 616 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: third day, the lost six and six days or to 617 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: last one thing that I've I've found myself doing and 618 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: I never did like I only Chris, I've known you 619 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: the whole time. I've done it only for a handful 620 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: of years. Started applying for tags and states where I 621 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: don't have like deep connections. Okay, so I've always done 622 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, I lived in Montana, have have family, they're 623 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: still have family in Alaska. So I've always done like 624 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: the Montana and Alaska draws, and it was kind of 625 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: like hunting my home ground, you know what I mean. 626 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: I won't even the last few years beginn applying for 627 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: states where I don't even where. I'll have to figure 628 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: it out once. I if I draw a tech you 629 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: know where I just don't know what's going on. But no, 630 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: I pretty much do virtually all Western states. And I 631 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: have a way where I sort of think under your 632 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: guidance a little bit. I think if some as being 633 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: just start now and accumulate points and then maybe someday 634 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: when you're an old man, you'll have like these amazing trips, 635 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: you know. And in the other states you think of 636 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: as like your opportunity states that you're just gonna go 637 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: and do so, like I have, like from from my understanding, 638 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: if I'm right, like Nevada, you're just playing a long game. 639 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: It's a long wait. Arizona can be a long wait 640 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: for a lot of stuff. At least Arizona we have 641 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: we have a Maxi bonus point pool, so which how 642 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: are you gonna get you can't get there? Yeah, it 643 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 1: was meal there. It sucks. You know, if you hunt 644 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: the strip, if if you know, if somebody's listening right 645 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: now and they haven't ever applied for the strip in 646 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: you're a nonresident, don't don't even waste your time. You 647 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: literally never draw it in your entire life. Because what 648 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: percent of those tags go to the max point holder 649 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: go to the maximonus point holders and how many points 650 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: those guys have right now? I think it's seventeen or so. 651 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: But the biggest problem for non residents is ten percent. 652 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: We have a ten percent maximum for non residents, so 653 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,280 Speaker 1: there's the of the tags go to the maxi bonus 654 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,479 Speaker 1: point pool. Only ten percent of the total tags can 655 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: be non residents. So a lot of nonresidents when we 656 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: started the bonus point system years ago, they started applying 657 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: back then, so there's a very large number of non 658 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,479 Speaker 1: residents sitting in the maximonus point pool. So by the 659 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: time the tent is reached, the ten percent already reached. 660 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: So technically a nonresident doesn't even have a chance unless 661 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,479 Speaker 1: he's in the maximonus point pool. I mean, you can 662 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: be two points off you can be an applying for 663 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: the last sixteen years, you probably still will not draw 664 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: that in your lifetime, considering the fact that you're probably 665 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: already in your mid forties. You know, if you've got 666 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: that many points, you know in your lifetime you're hunting lifetime. 667 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,680 Speaker 1: We're talking in years. So what do you think, like 668 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,320 Speaker 1: getting away from the the practical matter of getting points, 669 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 1: what in't your opinion is sort of the like the 670 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: cultural effect of that system is that area like like 671 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: like take there, we're talking about the strip area that 672 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 1: is that area is so limited in water and stuff 673 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: that you can't you couldn't just start issuing over the 674 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,720 Speaker 1: counter tags for any book. Would you damage the resource? 675 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, destroy it up there? Which it was exactly 676 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: why we're in the predicament we're in right now where 677 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: there's a lot of speculation. Why will have a ton 678 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: of input on this, But there was a time in 679 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: the fifties and the sixties when the strip was over 680 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: the counter. They had a huge number of deer up there. 681 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: It had a very large number of deer. And then 682 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: you know it's a combination of effects of over hunting. 683 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: There's probably some predation, But back then I'm probably. I'm 684 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: guessing they probably killed the snot out of predators back then, 685 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: so it's just over hunting. Um. They knocked the dear 686 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,839 Speaker 1: population down to a point where Game of Fish had 687 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: to come in and start setting a tag quota. But 688 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: that population had been suppressed to the point where it's 689 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: never been able to recover the areas. Yeah, so that 690 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: they actually suppressed it to the point where predators then 691 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 1: did become a problem. You know, once a prey base 692 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: gets so yeah, bounced back and get above that level 693 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: where it where the predators consumed so many that it's 694 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: holding the population down. Yeah, and I can see that. 695 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: But they're not able to swamp the predators with just 696 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: keep all fed. Yeah, they can't. They can't drop enough bonds, 697 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: you know, to keep all the predators fed. And the 698 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: strip I mean now it's sixty five tags for the strip, 699 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,479 Speaker 1: and the strip is I don't know how many million 700 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: square miles tanks. So yeah, so if you just said, 701 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna do just the opportunity, it hadn't 702 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: be they ain't Joe below could go buy a tank 703 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: for the area. You feasibly just just killing be here, 704 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 1: kill everybuck. No, there's just not a chance you see it. 705 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: It's so obviously true. It's like like every were talking 706 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: about big arms. I think you and I had this 707 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: conversation before, like there's not a thousand big oaring tags 708 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: in the country. No, not now, No, I'd think to 709 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: know how many thousands of people apply for less than 710 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: thousands big horn tags, but you could. Yeah, it's if 711 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: you just were to give out big oaring tags, you'd 712 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: issue hundreds of thousands of more tags. And there are 713 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,319 Speaker 1: big horn cheap and exist and literally that's one thing 714 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: people ask me all the time. Sometimes people will take 715 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: for granted and I think that people who have no 716 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: desire to like to go shoot a deer should go 717 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: shoot a deer or so I don't I don't understand 718 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: the people. I was like, do you think everybody should 719 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: go kill a deer or else you shouldn't eat any meat? Like, well, 720 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 1: one problem off toime of my head is we would 721 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 1: immediately have a two hundred million deer deficit if everyone 722 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: in this country went out and shot a deer. It's actually, 723 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,240 Speaker 1: you know, I was looking and you know a buddy 724 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: years Joe Rogan. You know, he's on the cover of 725 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: What's Peterson's hunting is talking about the new the phenomena, 726 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: you know, the hipster hunting movement, you know, and and 727 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: how that's you know, I wonder at times, just what 728 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,320 Speaker 1: kind of effect is they going to have in states 729 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,920 Speaker 1: where you have you know, over the counter tags that's 730 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: gonna almost have to you know, when you look into 731 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, Oregon and and you know California's got a 732 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: lot of private land, but you know Idaho where you've 733 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 1: got it over the counter tags, uh in you know, 734 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,240 Speaker 1: large parts in Montana. You know, if all these people 735 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: do go out and start hunting, you know, we all 736 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: think that's a wonderful thing, but at some point I'm wondering, 737 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: how wonderful is it. That's that's my my brother. He 738 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,719 Speaker 1: like when people talk about hunary cruitment, he can't stay 739 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: in the idea of it, you know, but he's not 740 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: looking at it from I mean, it's the wholder conversation, 741 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 1: but he's not looking at it from the legal end 742 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: of just how hunter is just gonna get trounsed in 743 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: the legislature, you know, like as the as the percentage 744 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: of Americans who hunt shrinks and shrinks, and people keep 745 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: talking about like the new breed of hunters. But when 746 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: they talk about hunter increase in recent years, when they say, 747 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: like there's a nine percent increase, that's not that doesn't 748 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,760 Speaker 1: mean nine percent nine percent more of the American population 749 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: something to talk about a nine percent increase of like 750 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: one percent of the population. You know, Yeah, we're just 751 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: so it's like I don't know, Like I don't know, 752 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: are they like how many more tags are actually getting 753 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,839 Speaker 1: sold right now than five years ago. It's a great 754 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: question because, you know, because I agree with you, I 755 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: think most of this increase in in hunter uh in 756 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 1: the number of hunters applying. It's just most of us 757 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: are applying in multiple states now. The game of Fish 758 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: departments have gone to online applications, you know, the new 759 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: generation hunters just totally into the online thing. They're allowing 760 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,879 Speaker 1: you to use a credit card now or you used 761 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: to have to write a check. And I think the 762 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: bonus point thing is a huge thing because it doesn't 763 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: feel like money wasted. People think they've got something when 764 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,080 Speaker 1: they get a point. I feel that way. That's why 765 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: like Alaska, New Mexico don't offer bonus points, and I 766 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: always feel like one, like you got a good chance 767 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: to draw on something because you know, like you're in 768 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: there with everybody, but you also feel like you didn't 769 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: come away with some like tangible good. You know, you're 770 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: the best odds of drawn a sheep tagger, go tagger, 771 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,360 Speaker 1: and moose tagger all in Idaho. But Idaho doesn't have 772 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: bonus points, so people don't apply there because they don't 773 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: feel like they're getting something for their money. They gotta 774 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: buy a hunting license and they got a front quite 775 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: a bit of money, but they're not getting a tangible 776 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: asset when it's all said and done, like somehow you 777 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: can wild these points to your kids. You know, when 778 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: it's all said and done, people just don't apply. Therefore, 779 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: you know, Idaho's got the best odds of drawing any 780 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,759 Speaker 1: one of those tags by how by how much? Oh, 781 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, on sheep, you're looking at, you know, anywhere 782 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 1: from three to seven percent chance in some units. You 783 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,880 Speaker 1: know they were in most of the you know states 784 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 1: like Arizona, New Mexico. Call it what in Mexico is 785 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:54,560 Speaker 1: terrible for different reasons, but Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Wyoming, you know, 786 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: you're looking at half percent to one percent odds. So 787 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, roughly fourteen fifteen times better. And uh, it's 788 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 1: it's all about when they don't have they don't have 789 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,479 Speaker 1: really big sheep too, so that that doesn't help either. 790 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,920 Speaker 1: But uh um, but yeah, it's just a fact that 791 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: they're not getting a bonus point. People don't want to 792 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: they don't want to put the money on for the listeners. 793 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 1: I'll say that the three the three animals that are 794 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: just the three animals that are single percentage point odds 795 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,880 Speaker 1: of hunting are things that most people aren't interested. Like 796 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 1: the most people aren't interested in hunting anyways unless you 797 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,800 Speaker 1: get really into hunting. Is like moose, sheep and goats. 798 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: So like moose, big orange sheep, mountain goats. Um, it's 799 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: just like you're not gonna drive unless you're if you're 800 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: an Alaska resident, you'll be able to hunt mountain goats often. 801 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 1: But no, it's just the kind of thing where you 802 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: might get the opportunity once or twice in your lifetime, 803 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 1: you know, in the West to hunt those animals, um, 804 00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,320 Speaker 1: compared to everything else white tail, mule to or out 805 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: you know. But it's funny as like we keep talk 806 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,720 Speaker 1: about these limited draw things in the West, and meanwhile 807 00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: they got areas in the East where they can't get 808 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: people to shoot enough dear. There's like it's like there's 809 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,040 Speaker 1: two conversations going on, you know. I mean, like one hand, 810 00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 1: we're sitting here talking about all these plans to try 811 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: to like find a way to get a chance to 812 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: hunt them out and go. And in the other hand, 813 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,560 Speaker 1: they're thinking about overturning, you know, a hundred and thirty 814 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: years of wildlife conservation efforts and making it you can 815 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: go back to selling dear met on the market as 816 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: way to try to get people interested in killing white 817 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: tailed deer. It's just hard to tell. It's hard to 818 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: tell where things are headed. And I've reread about it 819 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:41,160 Speaker 1: all the time, Like I've reread about, um, what the 820 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: ramifications might be if we do, in fact get a 821 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: bunch of new hunters. What what do we owe those 822 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:55,720 Speaker 1: people as far as opportunity goes? You know, Like how 823 00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:01,240 Speaker 1: hard should should fishing game agencies be sitting back and saying, 824 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: all right, never mind growing animals to full maturity, never 825 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,400 Speaker 1: mind growing animals to trophy size, we should just allow 826 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: people to start killing deer. And it wind up being 827 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,160 Speaker 1: like where I grew up in Michigan, if you killed 828 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: a two and a half year old deer, it was 829 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: people came from miles away to look at that thing. 830 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 1: It just didn't happen. I want, like, I have no 831 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 1: idea what that means for the deer herd. Yeah, it's 832 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: a you wind up with a very skewed one. You 833 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: wind up in these situations like where I grew up. 834 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: Is it is like we're talking about over to counter 835 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,759 Speaker 1: maximum opportunity. Everyone that wants can go buy a buff 836 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: tag and you'll sit and you'll see thirty to forty 837 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: dolls for every buck you see, and you never see 838 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: a buck who makes it past definitely, Like I was 839 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 1: saying two and a half, really that's kind of unfair, 840 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: but like a three and a half or four and 841 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,239 Speaker 1: a half year old deer, no way, no way. And 842 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: so it's like that's where opportunity got it was is 843 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: like deer are born one to one. Yeah, so when 844 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,399 Speaker 1: you're sitting there and you watch twenty dolls walk by 845 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: for every bod you see, those things are born in 846 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,759 Speaker 1: a one to one ratio, you know, And that's like 847 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: sort of like opportunity management in my mind, run amuck. 848 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,960 Speaker 1: You have a very false pop like you have a 849 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: very manipulated population a deer there, you know. And then 850 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,920 Speaker 1: the other hand is some of the stuff that we're 851 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,000 Speaker 1: talking about, like certain units in Arizona where you gotta 852 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: apply eighteen years to draw the tag is way limited, 853 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: but it's probably a more realistic You're probably looking at 854 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,440 Speaker 1: her to elk that probably resembles like a pre contact 855 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,240 Speaker 1: her elk. Yeah, very is more likely pre European contact 856 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: her elk where you got elk there living to be 857 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,439 Speaker 1: nine years old, and there's a bunch of bulls. Yeah, 858 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: and you've got you've got old mature bulls that are 859 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 1: genetically superior, passing on their jeans, you know, because they 860 00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 1: are the big, dominant, strong animal decision. Yeah, so you've 861 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:05,280 Speaker 1: got you know, whereas in the the the maximum opportunity areas, 862 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,960 Speaker 1: you've got spikes doing the breeding. Who knows what their 863 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,359 Speaker 1: genetic potential really is. I mean, I don't mean just 864 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 1: big anilers. I mean just survivability. You know, do they 865 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: have disease resistance? Are they able to live even could 866 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: they possibly even live to four or five years old? 867 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,719 Speaker 1: You know, you've got those kind of deers, those kind 868 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,839 Speaker 1: of bucks passing on their genes. You know as as 869 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: opposed to a buck that survived six years of hard winners. 870 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: He knows where, you knows where and how to winner. Uh, 871 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: you know, he's got the genetic makeup to be a survivor. 872 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: You know, you end up with and it's got to 873 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,879 Speaker 1: hurt the population. Another thing you hear people talking about 874 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: is it puts it winds up putting reproductive stress on 875 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: young animals, like young animals that wouldn't be putting energy 876 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,359 Speaker 1: into breeding become like breeding contenders and go to breed. 877 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:55,440 Speaker 1: But I see, like, I see both sides, you know, 878 00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: like I do with every issue, Like every wildlife issue 879 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: is so complicated. I definitely see both sides of it 880 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: because just asking myself, if that's there, if we're going 881 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,080 Speaker 1: to that direction, does it really Do I really want 882 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 1: to be in a situation where I can only hunt 883 00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,480 Speaker 1: once every four or five years? No way, man. You know, 884 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: if you take a close look at the North American 885 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,280 Speaker 1: big game model, it was never about managing opportunity for hunters. 886 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,120 Speaker 1: It was about managing wildlife. And we've all got to 887 00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: keep our eye on that. That's really what it's all about. Yeah, 888 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: it wasn't like, yeah, no, I see you're saying, no 889 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 1: one ever looked at it and thought, we, oh, we 890 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: need to have these animals and people can shoot them. 891 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 1: It was all about the wildlife. And I think whenever 892 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,799 Speaker 1: we decided that that's like here in Arizona, our habitats, 893 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,840 Speaker 1: it's so much different than say the Midwest or somewhere 894 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,560 Speaker 1: even in the Northwest particularly, but we just don't have 895 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,040 Speaker 1: the density of wildlife to fulfill the desires of the 896 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: population day sharing Arizona. This residents much less with the 897 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,120 Speaker 1: non resident factors. So I mean, we just it's it's 898 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,120 Speaker 1: a rare opportunity if you're one of the lucky ones 899 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: that gets to go hunting, and otherwise we just need 900 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,799 Speaker 1: to take care of the restlers. Because the same that 901 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: years somewhat like where the water. You'll see the impact 902 00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: of water on the growth of an animal. I mean, 903 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: you're living in a like a like a water limited 904 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: in the reproductions the same way some years and some 905 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: years we've got years that were so drowty that the 906 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,800 Speaker 1: elk didn't they didn't ruck, or it was marginal events, 907 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: and then a lot of those cows didn't take and 908 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,320 Speaker 1: didn't reproduce just because it was so you know it 909 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,839 Speaker 1: was a marginal year for them to survive, much less 910 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,280 Speaker 1: to carry an offspring. Yeah, one thing you guys touched 911 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: on a little while ago that was really something I 912 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,640 Speaker 1: see a lot of, or see every year. Hunters that 913 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: put in for these once in a lifetime hunts and 914 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,919 Speaker 1: then finally draw this once in a lifetime hunt. They 915 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,719 Speaker 1: really don't have that skill set that say their friend 916 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 1: or neighbor that is hunting some species every year, because 917 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,600 Speaker 1: those skills are you know, they're gonna allow it. They'll 918 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,839 Speaker 1: pass from species to species. But we had a good 919 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,240 Speaker 1: friend here a few years ago draw a strip tag 920 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,239 Speaker 1: and a really good smart guy and I don't think 921 00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 1: he'd been deer hunting in over a decade. Hired one 922 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: of the very best guides in the state, and they 923 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: have the most miserable hunt and opportunities to take great 924 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,520 Speaker 1: deer on multiple occasions, and just couldn't close the deal 925 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: because the skill set wasn't there. Remembered about what marksmanship, 926 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: or just delity to move and getting the safety off 927 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: on time, to get the bullets in the gun to 928 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,719 Speaker 1: you know, just all those things that a guy that 929 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,919 Speaker 1: hunts a lot takes for granted, it's it's no guide 930 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: in the world can overcome your inability to function under stress. 931 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 1: And people think, I'll just go hire this this outfit 932 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,879 Speaker 1: are over here. These guys have done a great job, 933 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: and everybody that hunts with him as successful. Well, you 934 00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: got to do your part. And a lot of these 935 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,399 Speaker 1: guys show up with no skill sets. They can't pull 936 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:54,399 Speaker 1: it off. That's a big deal. I married guy in Archie. 937 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,759 Speaker 1: L hunters, especially in Mexico, we always gotta We always 938 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 1: got a lot of Midwesterners, you know, guys are white 939 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: tail hunters. And the first day they'd be a stressed 940 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: out mess. You know, bowls are screaming, and they have 941 00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:06,359 Speaker 1: just you know, they're not sure which way to start 942 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,120 Speaker 1: point their bow. But by the second day they settled down, 943 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 1: you know, and they're starting to get a little customed 944 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:12,399 Speaker 1: to it. And by the time you got a bowl 945 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: inside thirty yards. That was my favorite client because he knew, 946 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,759 Speaker 1: he knew he'd shot so many white tailed deer, he 947 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,840 Speaker 1: knew how to hold that pen, he knew how to 948 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 1: pick a spot, and he knew how to make a shot, 949 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 1: you know, And how many guys in in Arizona, I 950 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:29,400 Speaker 1: know that uh, you know, they just they just freak 951 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,839 Speaker 1: out because the first time they have actually drawn their 952 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 1: bow on an animal in eight years, you know, since 953 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,919 Speaker 1: the last time they drew an eilk tag. Um. Yeah, 954 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,360 Speaker 1: so the experience is invaluables. So I think on it 955 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: every year. I'm trying to draw areas. I'm looking at 956 00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: areas where I can draw over and over again. You know, 957 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: in Utah, you know, I'm gonna go to an area 958 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: hopefully this year they hunted. Last year that had hunters everywhere, 959 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,759 Speaker 1: but there was deer everywhere too. You know, there wasn't big, 960 00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,279 Speaker 1: huge deer, but there was decent, you know, just good 961 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,720 Speaker 1: looking four points I could find the and four points. 962 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:03,799 Speaker 1: But just get out there, and even for myself, just 963 00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 1: more experienced, more experienced, more experience, because then all of 964 00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:09,359 Speaker 1: a sudden, there's gonna be Buck one of these days, 965 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 1: and you know, hopefully, you know, gain enough experience shooting 966 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: a smaller Bucks to make happen on that big But 967 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,200 Speaker 1: what is your I asked you to do this for 968 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 1: me when when putting together the guide book series we 969 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,200 Speaker 1: have coming out, But Um did things like like like 970 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,200 Speaker 1: Denim's picks walk through what you feel like like one 971 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,160 Speaker 1: of the dream tag scenarils, so like walk through if 972 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to say, um, sort of like around 973 00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: the country, what are like a handful of things that 974 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:42,440 Speaker 1: if someone wants to do big game draws that what 975 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,280 Speaker 1: are some of the handful of long term goal, life 976 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: altering things they should be doing. If I had to 977 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,640 Speaker 1: pick the dream hunts go by species, I'd say big 978 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 1: horn sheep in the river, the river break country Missouri 979 00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,920 Speaker 1: breaks country of Montana. I mean that's that's the one 980 00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,440 Speaker 1: you put in for. Yeah, I always put in for 981 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,920 Speaker 1: like like six eight along with everybody got to. I 982 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,279 Speaker 1: mean you've got to. I mean it is that. I 983 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,040 Speaker 1: almost rather I wouldn't say, wouldn't rather hunt sheep, not 984 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:14,319 Speaker 1: hunt sheep in Montana? Then not draw that tag. But 985 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 1: I'd just rather have that tag when you look like 986 00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:20,120 Speaker 1: everybody knows, because people always had this conversation like six 987 00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: eight six eight, everyone knows six eighty. So there's a 988 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 1: website you were showing hunters trailhead where you can go 989 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,040 Speaker 1: in and put in like how many bonus points you 990 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,080 Speaker 1: have nonresident resident, and it will give you an idea 991 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: over the last handful of years what your odds would 992 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,120 Speaker 1: have been. And then it doesn't project though, right, No, 993 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,120 Speaker 1: it doesn't project shows you what your odds would have 994 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 1: been in the previous years with with X number of points. Um. 995 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:43,640 Speaker 1: When I'll go look at those things, like you can 996 00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,320 Speaker 1: put it in six eighty and realize you have point 997 00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:50,920 Speaker 1: three percent chance, you know, and you look at the 998 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,880 Speaker 1: unit right next to it, and it will be point 999 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,920 Speaker 1: six percent chance. You're like, that's twice you know, yeah, 1000 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 1: that's twice as good, but twice as good. It's through 1001 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,680 Speaker 1: still because people just put down six because it's like 1002 00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,160 Speaker 1: the famous unit. Man. I think sometimes you just got 1003 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: to you gotta believe that when it's your turn, it's 1004 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:12,279 Speaker 1: your turn. The area is so cool, the animals are 1005 00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,839 Speaker 1: so cool, you can find them, right, Like, you're not 1006 00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:19,840 Speaker 1: gonna I shouldn't say that if you're an ambitious person 1007 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,160 Speaker 1: who plans, well, you're not gonna draw that, not going 1008 00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:28,520 Speaker 1: to get a ram, right you know. Yeah, you're become 1009 00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,640 Speaker 1: whether you get like a giant or something, but you're 1010 00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,520 Speaker 1: gonna go there and be like, wow, there's a big 1011 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,800 Speaker 1: orange sheet. Yeah, and that'd be one. You know, I 1012 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,840 Speaker 1: would shoot a ram on that hunt, I mean, but 1013 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,160 Speaker 1: I guarantee i'd probably if I didn't see a two 1014 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,439 Speaker 1: kind of ram. You know, I'd be shooting a hundred 1015 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,319 Speaker 1: seventy on the last day. It's a long season. You've 1016 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,080 Speaker 1: got tons of time, and you can just look at 1017 00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: a lot of sheet, a lot of sheep. You know, 1018 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 1: in Arizona, everybody to think, you know, your first instinct 1019 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,919 Speaker 1: would be elk, But honestly, I'd have to say, well, 1020 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,520 Speaker 1: desert big horn sheep. You know, in Arizona, you gotta you, 1021 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:04,160 Speaker 1: you gotta go after desert big horn down here and 1022 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,960 Speaker 1: and down here. Honestly, even though units twenty two and 1023 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,680 Speaker 1: twenty four B or the units where they're killing the 1024 00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,320 Speaker 1: big sheep that everybody sees, but they're generally hunting those 1025 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,000 Speaker 1: you know on the lake country. Yeah, the big reservoir 1026 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 1: where you're going in the boat. The only thing I 1027 00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 1: regret about and I drew a bu tag back when 1028 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,520 Speaker 1: it was north and South it was just one unit. 1029 00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,960 Speaker 1: And the only thing I regret over that is there's 1030 00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,239 Speaker 1: areas in Arizona like down in the Cabeza Prietta, Uh 1031 00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,120 Speaker 1: down it's down on the Mexican border where you can 1032 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,080 Speaker 1: go for an entire month and you will not see 1033 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,520 Speaker 1: another human being. If you choose not to. I mean, 1034 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,080 Speaker 1: you are out there. You might see some drug runners, 1035 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,880 Speaker 1: but that's about it. But you are in the wildest 1036 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,960 Speaker 1: of wild country and you may not kill a tram. 1037 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: You're not gonna probably kill a hundi tram, but you're 1038 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,839 Speaker 1: gonna have an adventure of a lifetime. That's the take. 1039 00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,319 Speaker 1: That's a take I would take. Yeah, I would rather 1040 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,600 Speaker 1: have that in their way around. Yeah, you know, if 1041 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:04,879 Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately, you know, I drew a great tag 1042 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,759 Speaker 1: and had a great hunt, but uh, now I have 1043 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,480 Speaker 1: to live in like a little league dad. Now my 1044 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,000 Speaker 1: son's got fourteen or fifteen points and we have to 1045 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,560 Speaker 1: live vicariously through him, and hopefully he'll draw one of 1046 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,239 Speaker 1: those tags and we'll get to go do it, you know, 1047 00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,560 Speaker 1: an epic day hunt. But but that that's an interesting 1048 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,680 Speaker 1: point with within the question. I already asked you, how 1049 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,279 Speaker 1: is your good? He's twenty one, so he's already got 1050 00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,520 Speaker 1: that many points, so he'll hunt big horns absolutely center. 1051 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,160 Speaker 1: I was talking to the guy, one of the guys 1052 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:34,759 Speaker 1: that hunting fool. I had a conversation with him about this. 1053 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,399 Speaker 1: He's saying, I can't remember what he said. If you're 1054 00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,680 Speaker 1: thirty and you start doing this, He says, you have 1055 00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,720 Speaker 1: a very good chance hunting two big horn sheep at thirty. 1056 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:49,000 Speaker 1: If you're thirty years old, you start doing it, and 1057 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:50,560 Speaker 1: you're doing in all of the state and all the 1058 00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 1: worthwhile states, you'll have a chance. You might go in 1059 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,279 Speaker 1: two big horn sheep hunts before you die. Tw in 1060 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,319 Speaker 1: Colorado and Arizonic you've gotta you know, you've got a 1061 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,520 Speaker 1: decent chance to get a tag in Colorado if you're 1062 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 1: thirty years old, if you play their game, and uh 1063 00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 1: in you know Nevada. You know, Nevada is a bit 1064 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,080 Speaker 1: of a gamble, but like like Montana, they square your points. 1065 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:13,440 Speaker 1: So if you stick with it long enough, you might 1066 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,239 Speaker 1: have you know, you're gonna get to the point where 1067 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,720 Speaker 1: you're having seven eight percent chance every year and hopefully, 1068 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:22,440 Speaker 1: you know it happens before you're sixty. But but you know, 1069 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:26,520 Speaker 1: the one thing in Arizona, antelope are antelope are just outrageous. 1070 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,880 Speaker 1: You know, we just the genetics down here are just 1071 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,200 Speaker 1: off the charts. So i'd have to put antelope right 1072 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,040 Speaker 1: out there at the top two. Is that like a 1073 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:38,280 Speaker 1: pretty quality hunt, like um the low pressure and it's 1074 00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,919 Speaker 1: it is, except for the fact, like we've already talked 1075 00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:43,200 Speaker 1: about the the you know, we call it gang hunting. 1076 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,120 Speaker 1: You know, antelope are pretty visible, so they are susceptible 1077 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,480 Speaker 1: to having about five or six guys out running around 1078 00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,399 Speaker 1: covering lots of country looking at bucks. Um, so it's 1079 00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:55,160 Speaker 1: not quite as remote as you'd like it to be, 1080 00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:58,919 Speaker 1: just because they're just too dog invisible. But to put 1081 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,719 Speaker 1: a really beautiful lantimal on the wall arizon is tough 1082 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,480 Speaker 1: to beat. It just impossible to beat. But uh in 1083 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: New Mexico is great for that as well. But Colorado, 1084 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:11,920 Speaker 1: for Meal there is the one that's still a mystery 1085 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,080 Speaker 1: to I say a mystery to me, it's not a mystery. 1086 00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,160 Speaker 1: There's a lot of great units, but that's the one 1087 00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,440 Speaker 1: state where guys really need to be focused on Meal there. 1088 00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 1: I had one tag there. I had a tag there 1089 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 1: a couple years ago and twenty one, and I saw 1090 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,879 Speaker 1: a buck there in the archery hunt. He was down 1091 00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: on private. I never even had a chance to kill him, 1092 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:30,840 Speaker 1: but this buck was I saw him for probably twenty seconds, 1093 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,879 Speaker 1: but probably thirty three thirty four inches wide, had enough 1094 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:36,759 Speaker 1: points that I couldn't even figure out exactly what was 1095 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 1: going on. But I mean definitely a buck that was 1096 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:42,360 Speaker 1: north at just a monster in an area in a 1097 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,400 Speaker 1: year that wasn't even that great. One's got a bit 1098 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,399 Speaker 1: of reputation, but it's not it's it's over, it's it's 1099 00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:52,040 Speaker 1: definitely not what it used to be. But Colorado from 1100 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:57,320 Speaker 1: Meal there would be and then uh, it's Unfortunately a 1101 00:55:57,360 --> 00:55:59,160 Speaker 1: lot of my dreams were revolved around meal there hunting. 1102 00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,400 Speaker 1: Can you know, can sittery and I haven't. I'm like you, 1103 00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,080 Speaker 1: I've never killed a big meal there, I mean a 1104 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,120 Speaker 1: truly big buck. I'm gonna killed a couple of fun 1105 00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:07,920 Speaker 1: I care about getting a big one off, I know, 1106 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:10,800 Speaker 1: and I've every I've had a great good tag in 1107 00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,560 Speaker 1: Nevada or a good tag in Wyoming and good tag 1108 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,040 Speaker 1: in Colorado. I've had a couple of tags over my 1109 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,080 Speaker 1: lifetime and I thought, this is it and it just 1110 00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,760 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. You know, it hasn't happened yet. But Nevada 1111 00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:28,319 Speaker 1: to thirty one for for Meal dere uh the Henry Mountains. Um, 1112 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,839 Speaker 1: when you're not going to draw the Henry Mountain tag? Now, 1113 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,080 Speaker 1: now that's a that's dream. That's another one where you 1114 00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,080 Speaker 1: just you're better off, you know, you're drawing a sheet 1115 00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,320 Speaker 1: tag before you draw that. Most likely you'll draw a 1116 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,120 Speaker 1: sheet tag before you draw chances and hunt mule during 1117 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: Henry Mountains. Yeah, if you really want to hunt to Henry's, 1118 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:49,120 Speaker 1: you need to go focus yet, go focus on focus 1119 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,560 Speaker 1: on your career and buy an auction tag. It's probably 1120 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,600 Speaker 1: you've got a better chance of you know, focusing on 1121 00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:55,880 Speaker 1: your career and making a bunch of money and go 1122 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,200 Speaker 1: buy a tag than you do a drawing one. Do 1123 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,160 Speaker 1: you put in for moose tags in the West? I 1124 00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,200 Speaker 1: put in Utah, you know, back when, back when Utah 1125 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:07,400 Speaker 1: limited you to one limited entry species, I chose moose. 1126 00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,319 Speaker 1: You know, so I've got fifteen or eighteen points. But 1127 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,200 Speaker 1: I was just looking at my odds back when the 1128 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,640 Speaker 1: applications are doing. You know, I'm in that two percent range, 1129 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:19,800 Speaker 1: you know, So so fifteen or eighteen years of applying, Yeah, 1130 00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:23,160 Speaker 1: for nonresident you're you're down there in the two percent range. 1131 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,600 Speaker 1: But you know, you look at this stayed like, you know, 1132 00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: like Idaho. You know, you and I've talked about Idaho. 1133 00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,200 Speaker 1: There's units there that you know your odds are eight 1134 00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,080 Speaker 1: or ten percent. That point I started getting like when 1135 00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:38,560 Speaker 1: I see something like that, like with the number of 1136 00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:40,840 Speaker 1: bonus points I have in Montana on mountain goats, I'm 1137 00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,200 Speaker 1: running in the eight nine percent. You would actually draw 1138 00:57:43,240 --> 00:57:45,840 Speaker 1: that thing, now, yeah, you know, yeah, that's why I 1139 00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:49,320 Speaker 1: put moose in Idaho is something that if guys are 1140 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,200 Speaker 1: really want to do what you do, you know, because 1141 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 1: what they do in nonresidents. We have to choose between elk, 1142 00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:59,360 Speaker 1: You have to choose between moose, goat, and sheep. You 1143 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,640 Speaker 1: can apply for one of those three. But if you 1144 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,040 Speaker 1: apply for one of those three, then you can't apply 1145 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: for the limited entry deer, elk, and antalope tags. So 1146 00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:10,720 Speaker 1: the past couple of years I've been doing the deer, elk, 1147 00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,160 Speaker 1: and antalope tags, which I'm over three, so them in 1148 00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,040 Speaker 1: the same odds I used to one or the other. 1149 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,800 Speaker 1: There it's one or the other. Well, you can also 1150 00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:21,360 Speaker 1: go hunt over the counter. You can hunt over the 1151 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: counter there for for for elk, and I think honestly, 1152 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,440 Speaker 1: some of the most overlooked, you know, the most overlooked 1153 00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,960 Speaker 1: opportunity to entire west or over the counter units or 1154 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:32,720 Speaker 1: over the counter or you know, one or zero points 1155 00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:35,720 Speaker 1: at one point, And is it for that reason you 1156 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,120 Speaker 1: think that because some units are just the draw unit, 1157 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,919 Speaker 1: and everybody's just focused there that the unit next door 1158 00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 1: is like, yeah, those animals don't know, and nobody pays 1159 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,760 Speaker 1: attention to them. And you look at the you know, 1160 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,480 Speaker 1: the resources we have, you know the magazines. You know, 1161 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,320 Speaker 1: they're all tout the big units, and everybody thinks the 1162 00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,560 Speaker 1: other units just have trash. I mean, I had an 1163 00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:58,280 Speaker 1: antalope tag in Wyoming this past year and we're running 1164 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,160 Speaker 1: around looking for antal open. I stopped the truck and 1165 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:03,200 Speaker 1: there was a point. It was about a hundred yards out, 1166 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:04,960 Speaker 1: so I kind of walked out the point. I was 1167 00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:07,200 Speaker 1: looking over a huge vast area for just to see 1168 00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,600 Speaker 1: if I could find and he hurts antelope and I 1169 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,560 Speaker 1: just happened to look down to see where the road 1170 00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,120 Speaker 1: was going to go down this ridge line, and I 1171 00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,120 Speaker 1: see a spot moving in the middle of road, and 1172 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,080 Speaker 1: I throw my binoculars up and there's a mule deer 1173 00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:19,760 Speaker 1: walking down the road that I can tell from its 1174 00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,760 Speaker 1: body is enormous, and I could see it had antlers, 1175 00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,160 Speaker 1: but it was probably a mile away. So I run 1176 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,880 Speaker 1: to my truck, grabbed my spotting scope, and I put 1177 00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,120 Speaker 1: my spotting scope up and they're standing one of the 1178 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,479 Speaker 1: largest meal deer I've ever seen in my entire life. 1179 00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,520 Speaker 1: This sings like I told Kyle was with me. I said, Kyle, 1180 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,560 Speaker 1: I said, I think this deer might be thirty eight 1181 00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:41,560 Speaker 1: inches And he's like, no way. So we go running too, 1182 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,160 Speaker 1: and we go we drive down there, and he dove 1183 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,640 Speaker 1: off into the canyon and we got to that spot 1184 00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,720 Speaker 1: and we we walked out and I'm looking way down 1185 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,400 Speaker 1: the canyon thinking that deer's gotta be running. And meanwhile 1186 00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:56,080 Speaker 1: I see Kyle throw the camera and uh, and I'm looking, 1187 00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,000 Speaker 1: what's he filming? I look and there's a deer standing 1188 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,800 Speaker 1: there thirty yards away and he wasn't thirty seven but 1189 01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,560 Speaker 1: he's thirty two thirty three wide tall, out in the 1190 01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,480 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere Antelope Country. And it couldn't find out. 1191 01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,320 Speaker 1: It's a totally it's a general unit. It's a general unit. 1192 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,479 Speaker 1: And dear season ended two days before his bucks walking 1193 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,400 Speaker 1: right down the middle of road. Now, I had right 1194 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,560 Speaker 1: across the highway. I had one of their hardest to 1195 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,439 Speaker 1: draw deer tags the year before. I mean it literally 1196 01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,919 Speaker 1: right across the highway from where this was. I never 1197 01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:25,880 Speaker 1: saw a deer of that caliber, not even close to 1198 01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:29,080 Speaker 1: that caliber during my hunt. And it took me eight 1199 01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:32,400 Speaker 1: years to draw that tag, and I could have drawn 1200 01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:38,360 Speaker 1: this one one year. You know, his favorite unit in Colorado, 1201 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,000 Speaker 1: his favorite like mule deer unit. We were looking at 1202 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:46,480 Speaker 1: hunting fool and I took a picture of their description 1203 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,640 Speaker 1: of his unit, which is not a glowing I took 1204 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,680 Speaker 1: a picture and texted it to him and he wrote back, 1205 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:57,480 Speaker 1: I hope they never changed that. It was just like 1206 01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,120 Speaker 1: a base almost like that, Dad, I don't bother. I 1207 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,000 Speaker 1: think you gotta get all of those resources to figure 1208 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:05,520 Speaker 1: out where not to apply at times if you're gonna 1209 01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,840 Speaker 1: follow you know the strategy if I want to hunt 1210 01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,080 Speaker 1: every year. But so, I don't know if you really 1211 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,760 Speaker 1: answered your question on those premier tags yet it was 1212 01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:17,280 Speaker 1: a good sense. And then what, um, what are the 1213 01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:22,240 Speaker 1: things like if people just want to go hunt all right? 1214 01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:24,800 Speaker 1: You just want to be like one of these years 1215 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,440 Speaker 1: when it's when time is right, you just want to 1216 01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,880 Speaker 1: go out hunt the West, maybe get to go for 1217 01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,240 Speaker 1: two different species, you know it's your big chance. What 1218 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,440 Speaker 1: are what are the states I tend to be like, 1219 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,920 Speaker 1: I'll see what I tend to say in just based 1220 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,800 Speaker 1: on friends and own experiences. I'm wanted, Like if you 1221 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,040 Speaker 1: want to go and have where you can just like 1222 01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,360 Speaker 1: you're gonna see dear. You know you're not gonna get 1223 01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: a big one, but you're going sea plane dear. There's 1224 01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,360 Speaker 1: plenty of plane tag opportunities, Like Montan is great for 1225 01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,560 Speaker 1: mu Elier, Like if you want to go and have 1226 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:03,280 Speaker 1: a good on and see stuff. And I always point 1227 01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 1: out that, um, Colorado's got a lot of elk tags, 1228 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,480 Speaker 1: a lot of out no giants, but like you can 1229 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,680 Speaker 1: go and have a solid hunt. Yeah, you know, Wyoming antelope. 1230 01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,920 Speaker 1: I think Wyoming antelope still one of the most underrated 1231 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,160 Speaker 1: hunts in the West because they don't You're not gonna 1232 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:23,760 Speaker 1: go see a bunch of huge bucks wud, You're gonna 1233 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,080 Speaker 1: see a lot of antelope. There's you know, tags are 1234 01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:29,800 Speaker 1: easy to get. You can get dough tags, um. And 1235 01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,800 Speaker 1: it's still an adventure when you're in Wyoming. You're in 1236 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,360 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere no matter where you are, you know, 1237 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,000 Speaker 1: I mean, wyom In's just at adventure. So i'd say 1238 01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,960 Speaker 1: woman antelope, Arizona cous deer, like we kind of already 1239 01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,360 Speaker 1: talked about um. I think is uh is still the 1240 01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,800 Speaker 1: most underrated big game species in the West. No one 1241 01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:49,160 Speaker 1: even knows what it is. I didn't know what one was. 1242 01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,480 Speaker 1: It's I thought people were screwing up and saying keys 1243 01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,840 Speaker 1: do you're like the white tails they got into Florida 1244 01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,280 Speaker 1: keys like cusire. I'm like, yeah, there's a little shipping things. 1245 01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:00,560 Speaker 1: When you're out fishing in Florida, there's not a there 1246 01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,720 Speaker 1: is nothing. There is not a single aspect of your 1247 01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,680 Speaker 1: game that you don't have to be extremely good at 1248 01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:10,560 Speaker 1: to hunt couster and to effectively hunt couster and you 1249 01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,240 Speaker 1: can draw it every year. Um, I mean, you've got 1250 01:03:13,240 --> 01:03:14,840 Speaker 1: to be in good shape. You've got to be able 1251 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:16,320 Speaker 1: to shoot, you've got to be able to pack, you 1252 01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:19,280 Speaker 1: gotta be able to glass. I mean, it's uh, it's 1253 01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:22,400 Speaker 1: way it's just way underrated. Um. I think you know 1254 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,800 Speaker 1: New Mexico Melder's kind of the same way. You know, 1255 01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,480 Speaker 1: you've got there's two A to B and two C 1256 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:29,200 Speaker 1: up in the north central part of the state that 1257 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,320 Speaker 1: everybody focuses on because that's all the one that's the 1258 01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,320 Speaker 1: only ones that magazines talk about. But New Mexico has 1259 01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,600 Speaker 1: got good genetics from top to bottom. Let me say good. 1260 01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you can you you can hope to shoot 1261 01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,080 Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty hundred and sixty in deer, you know, 1262 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,240 Speaker 1: just a really good solid four point and probably not 1263 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:46,840 Speaker 1: seen there as many people as you might on a 1264 01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:51,480 Speaker 1: Colorado hunt. Uh, Nevada, and Nevada has got great genetics. 1265 01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,320 Speaker 1: And every unit of the state, now there's some that 1266 01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,280 Speaker 1: are just absolutely no doubt better than others. But that's 1267 01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,400 Speaker 1: a difficult state to get a permit in though, right, well, 1268 01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:00,720 Speaker 1: some units are some units are. It is something you 1269 01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:03,320 Speaker 1: just a really easy. Now when I say easy, you 1270 01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,200 Speaker 1: can probably drawing one every second or third year. And 1271 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:08,720 Speaker 1: uh and for a lot of people, you know, every 1272 01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:10,720 Speaker 1: two or three years about all that they can probably 1273 01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,880 Speaker 1: afford from a vacation standpoint. So drawing went every second 1274 01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,200 Speaker 1: or third years, you know, probably exactly what fits into 1275 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:19,680 Speaker 1: their life schedule once they we haven't talked about it all. 1276 01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,560 Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. State with draws is like the 1277 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:26,880 Speaker 1: Alaska set up, where there's a couple of things like 1278 01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:31,800 Speaker 1: like if you're a nonresident muscos, you have to draw. 1279 01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:37,960 Speaker 1: But it's funny because like every species there there's over 1280 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:42,680 Speaker 1: to counter opportunities for and draw opportunities. In the draw 1281 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:46,120 Speaker 1: opportunities tend not to be quality or abundance to animals. 1282 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:49,560 Speaker 1: It tends to be the closer it is the highway system, 1283 01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:51,880 Speaker 1: the more of the chance it's a draw. So the 1284 01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:56,080 Speaker 1: best hunts in Alaska aren't the draw hunts necessarily, you know. 1285 01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:58,280 Speaker 1: It's just like when you see a drawing unit there, 1286 01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,080 Speaker 1: it just means like, yeah, you can drive to it. 1287 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,440 Speaker 1: So we got a limit, you know, like hunting caribou 1288 01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:07,240 Speaker 1: on the Kenai. It's like it's accessible, so you gotta 1289 01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:10,680 Speaker 1: draw that. Meanwhile, you can go kill what the like 1290 01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,440 Speaker 1: a bang limit of ten caribou, you know, in the 1291 01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:17,560 Speaker 1: Western Brooks Range, And it's just like it's just a 1292 01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:19,880 Speaker 1: whole different system up there. You know. I still do 1293 01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,040 Speaker 1: the draws there because it's a handful of things, Like 1294 01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:26,360 Speaker 1: there's those elk I guess not experimental but introduced el 1295 01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,120 Speaker 1: kerds is drawn, the muscos is drawn. Only the best 1296 01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:32,960 Speaker 1: doll sheep units are drawn, not the best Yeah, maybe 1297 01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,640 Speaker 1: the best draw doll sheep units are drawn only. I 1298 01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:41,080 Speaker 1: kind of drew the best of the best with that 1299 01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:44,080 Speaker 1: silver spoon, going, yeah, I get to see I get 1300 01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:52,560 Speaker 1: my tags because they just want to see cand of 1301 01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:58,280 Speaker 1: perpetuate that the governor hand delivers of it. Yeah, they 1302 01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:01,160 Speaker 1: bringing his nail me whatever I want. But still the 1303 01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:03,480 Speaker 1: other thing I think that in most people have kind 1304 01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,360 Speaker 1: of figured this out, but I think it needs to 1305 01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,480 Speaker 1: be reiterated, is pick up a bow. I mean, just 1306 01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:14,080 Speaker 1: today's today's archery equipment, you know, and you've got most 1307 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:16,960 Speaker 1: major cities anyways, you've got good pro shops. You can 1308 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:19,400 Speaker 1: learn to shoot a boat pretty quick. Uh, you know, 1309 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:21,880 Speaker 1: it takes a long time to get really proficient, but 1310 01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:26,400 Speaker 1: it's fun. And the opportunities for archers, you know, still 1311 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,000 Speaker 1: the best in the West. You know, that's something I 1312 01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:31,160 Speaker 1: don't I wish we wouldn't have waited so long, you know, 1313 01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:33,040 Speaker 1: just a touch on that is there is just an 1314 01:06:33,120 --> 01:06:37,200 Speaker 1: unbelievable amount of archery opportunity, you know. And in Arizona 1315 01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:39,280 Speaker 1: in January you can come out and hunt deer over 1316 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,160 Speaker 1: the counter in the middle of the rut. We've got 1317 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,640 Speaker 1: haviling the tags that they have leftovers for every year, 1318 01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:48,920 Speaker 1: Kyloe seasons open, lion hunting's open. Uh, quail season, quail 1319 01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,760 Speaker 1: season and dove season are open. Basically it's got fur 1320 01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,640 Speaker 1: and feather. You know, there's a legal means of killing it, 1321 01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, and hunting it in Arizona in January and 1322 01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,880 Speaker 1: it's a beautiful time to be in the desert. But yeah, 1323 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,160 Speaker 1: archery opportunities are still some of the most underutilized we're 1324 01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,160 Speaker 1: you know in the country. Of course, there's probably some 1325 01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:08,400 Speaker 1: bow hunters gonna send me a nasty gram for even 1326 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,640 Speaker 1: promoting that. But what's interesting I read in easterns that 1327 01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,920 Speaker 1: one of those one of those uh issues you were 1328 01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,400 Speaker 1: just talking about today, um that in Colorado now the 1329 01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,480 Speaker 1: archery hunters are equaling the success rate of the rifle 1330 01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,880 Speaker 1: hunters for elk because because they're hunting in the run, 1331 01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:27,680 Speaker 1: so you can hear them, and so it's just that 1332 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,320 Speaker 1: much easier to find them, you know, where the rifle 1333 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,400 Speaker 1: hunter can't find them. And again with today's equipment, I mean, 1334 01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:38,440 Speaker 1: everybody's getting pretty good all season light is that like 1335 01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,560 Speaker 1: is the bow season way longer? Way longer? Yeah, it's 1336 01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,240 Speaker 1: a whole month best thing. Like in Montana, man would 1337 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:48,400 Speaker 1: be like bow hunting there that season overly September six 1338 01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:52,479 Speaker 1: and September three sometimes and it would go you hunt, 1339 01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:57,160 Speaker 1: you get all of September, first couple of weeks of October, 1340 01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:03,919 Speaker 1: you know, all like the runs long and then it's 1341 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,520 Speaker 1: just you just go and go. You get sick of going, 1342 01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:08,920 Speaker 1: you know, you can wear yourself out. It was like 1343 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,240 Speaker 1: it's like it's like, oh man, another weekend, you know. 1344 01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean that you're like you realize you hunted you 1345 01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:15,160 Speaker 1: bowl hunted out seven weekends in the row now, I 1346 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:16,639 Speaker 1: mean it's a lot of hunting. You can get off 1347 01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,400 Speaker 1: a bowl. Yeah, but you know, you see most archers, 1348 01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:23,439 Speaker 1: uh you know, they're definitely at high level, high level 1349 01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,400 Speaker 1: of skill set. Group of guys, the ones that are 1350 01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,360 Speaker 1: true archers. Did you see I've never met a good 1351 01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:32,519 Speaker 1: archer that didn't shoot a rifle. Well, oh yeah, it's 1352 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:34,560 Speaker 1: just there. You know, that's a that's a definitely a 1353 01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:37,559 Speaker 1: The guys that are serious about it or a click 1354 01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:41,160 Speaker 1: above them, if they had an opportunity with a rifle, 1355 01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:43,280 Speaker 1: would take that. Also, you know, it's not like the 1356 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,640 Speaker 1: die hard archers and I'm thinking of these, you're just 1357 01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:48,519 Speaker 1: guys that wanted an opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. My brother, as 1358 01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,360 Speaker 1: far as the bow hunting gun hunting thing goes, yeah, 1359 01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:55,760 Speaker 1: he just has this very like this internal battle all 1360 01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:02,759 Speaker 1: the time where he doesn't like, uh, he doesn't feel 1361 01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:07,000 Speaker 1: good to shoot something with a rifle. He's a bowl hunter, 1362 01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:09,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But at the same time 1363 01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,200 Speaker 1: it just doesn't mean anything to him. You know. He says, 1364 01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:13,920 Speaker 1: like a harvest for me, like to shoot some of 1365 01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:16,200 Speaker 1: my rifles like a harvest. It's like, I'm just shooting me, 1366 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, for the freezer um. But at the same 1367 01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:23,400 Speaker 1: time he has this like hatred for his bone, which 1368 01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:26,160 Speaker 1: he actually loves because the efficacy and wound loss is 1369 01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:28,479 Speaker 1: so much higher with a bone and arrow, so he's like, 1370 01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,160 Speaker 1: it feels so much better. But at the same time 1371 01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:34,040 Speaker 1: he goes, I almost hate myself for doing it, Like 1372 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,720 Speaker 1: sometimes I have this weird thought that I wish that 1373 01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:38,720 Speaker 1: somehow I couldn't bow hunt anymore, so I didn't have 1374 01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:40,640 Speaker 1: to have the struggle of it, like I love it. 1375 01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:42,320 Speaker 1: But then he just had to live with this fact 1376 01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:46,320 Speaker 1: that you're gonna have a higher radar wound loss, you know, 1377 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:49,080 Speaker 1: like the efficacy of a rifle is just in the 1378 01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:52,479 Speaker 1: right hands, you know, the efficacy of a rifle is great, 1379 01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:56,960 Speaker 1: and there's just so much room for air on bows, 1380 01:09:57,080 --> 01:09:58,800 Speaker 1: and they factor that stuff in, man, you know, they 1381 01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,240 Speaker 1: factor that stuff. And when it said when they allocate tags, 1382 01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,519 Speaker 1: you know, and they they're definitely gonna move Eventually, these 1383 01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:08,599 Speaker 1: game official departments are gonna understand that the success rate 1384 01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,479 Speaker 1: with this archery equipment, in the level and quality of 1385 01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,120 Speaker 1: these hunters is dramatically different than it was ten years. 1386 01:10:15,280 --> 01:10:18,439 Speaker 1: There's just no question. But I watched. I don't consider 1387 01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,519 Speaker 1: myself an archer. Uh, you know, I utilize the archers 1388 01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:26,480 Speaker 1: to get a system, to get a permit, and uh, 1389 01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm always amazed at how effective they are as a 1390 01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,160 Speaker 1: there's a tool, if you know, if everything goes right 1391 01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:34,479 Speaker 1: in the right hands. But when you look at a 1392 01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:37,360 Speaker 1: rifle hunter, I mean, there's no hardly in the excuse 1393 01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:43,400 Speaker 1: to make a mistake with it still happens, You're honest. 1394 01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,479 Speaker 1: And now we're having this conversation earlier, we're trying to 1395 01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:49,120 Speaker 1: find a way like many editors, and and I know, Chris, 1396 01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,600 Speaker 1: you have is like a thing that everybody asked now 1397 01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:54,519 Speaker 1: is like what is it too what shots too far? 1398 01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,519 Speaker 1: What's too far? With a rifle? You can't define it. 1399 01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,200 Speaker 1: Like I got a friend who teaches, and when having 1400 01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:01,880 Speaker 1: this conversation, I was pointing out, I got a friend 1401 01:11:01,920 --> 01:11:05,080 Speaker 1: who is an instructor. He's a Marine Corps sniper and 1402 01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,840 Speaker 1: a sniper instructor. I'm not gonna go say to him, 1403 01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,280 Speaker 1: what's too far for him to shoot? Because he is 1404 01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:16,040 Speaker 1: gonna at six hundred yards, he's gonna call his shot 1405 01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,320 Speaker 1: better than I'm going to call it two hundred yards. 1406 01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,080 Speaker 1: It's all about the conference. So it winds up being 1407 01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:24,400 Speaker 1: like it's so hard to define because you have to 1408 01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,160 Speaker 1: like I've struggled with the definition, and the best I've 1409 01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:31,120 Speaker 1: come up with is it's too far when there's a 1410 01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,400 Speaker 1: question in your mind about whether you're going to hit 1411 01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:37,320 Speaker 1: it where you want to or not. And I used 1412 01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:41,680 Speaker 1: to when I first started hunting the West, particularly hunting anilope, 1413 01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,280 Speaker 1: we would shoot an animal basically to see if you'd 1414 01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:49,920 Speaker 1: hit it, you know, And I now realize that that 1415 01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:53,519 Speaker 1: is even though it wasn't that far, it was three 1416 01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,639 Speaker 1: I remember my brother shooting an animal that we paced 1417 01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,160 Speaker 1: off at three nine yards when we first moved to Montana, 1418 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,840 Speaker 1: and it was there's no worry, your mission, you can 1419 01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:06,040 Speaker 1: go and see three yards. It was unfammibled to me. 1420 01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:08,479 Speaker 1: You know, they did it, and now I think like 1421 01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,960 Speaker 1: a three ys when the conditions are right, you know 1422 01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,599 Speaker 1: where that thing is going. But when we were shooting 1423 01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:17,080 Speaker 1: so at that time, three yards was too far because 1424 01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:19,920 Speaker 1: if it wasn't, we shouldn't have been surprised when an 1425 01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:24,519 Speaker 1: animal tipped over. There should be no element of holy 1426 01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,200 Speaker 1: how you hit it? Yeah, you know when whenever you 1427 01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:30,519 Speaker 1: had the thought rendsty your mind that I'm going to 1428 01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:33,760 Speaker 1: shoot at that animal instead of shoot that animal. Yeah, 1429 01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:37,559 Speaker 1: you know, you know you're making a mistake. You know, 1430 01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,760 Speaker 1: it's just in the animals deserved more than that. We 1431 01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:44,240 Speaker 1: all taken our share of stupid shots. Yeah, And I'm 1432 01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:47,280 Speaker 1: not saying not even done doing it, because it's just 1433 01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:49,519 Speaker 1: you get caught up in the moment rights and you know, 1434 01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,280 Speaker 1: get excited. But yeah, I think that's it. I watched 1435 01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:53,720 Speaker 1: so much. But we were right in the middle of 1436 01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,800 Speaker 1: the long range stuff ten fifteen years ago. We ended 1437 01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:00,759 Speaker 1: up there accidentally. We were developing a rifle that had 1438 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:05,240 Speaker 1: a a zero was in the kill zone from the 1439 01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:08,640 Speaker 1: muzzle to five hundred yards, and it was at sight. 1440 01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:10,680 Speaker 1: And explain what you mean by that, Well, you want 1441 01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:12,240 Speaker 1: to be able to look at an animal from zero 1442 01:13:12,280 --> 01:13:14,120 Speaker 1: to five hundred yards and not need to know the 1443 01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:17,880 Speaker 1: range because the rifles seem so flat. You know, you 1444 01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:19,639 Speaker 1: hold right if it's way out there, you're gonna hold 1445 01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:23,200 Speaker 1: right level with the top of its back. If it's closed, 1446 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:24,840 Speaker 1: you might duck down a little bit and be down 1447 01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:26,519 Speaker 1: on the lower section of the animal, but you never 1448 01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,439 Speaker 1: had to come off of the animal. Uh. That's another point. 1449 01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:33,800 Speaker 1: When you see people holding off of an animal, you're 1450 01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:37,960 Speaker 1: you're shooting at it, you aren't shooting it. And uh, 1451 01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:40,360 Speaker 1: and we ended up in that. And I watched some 1452 01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:44,320 Speaker 1: in my skill shoot. My ability to shoot dramatically improved 1453 01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,640 Speaker 1: when from being able to shoot things at two and 1454 01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,160 Speaker 1: three hundred yards to seven and eight hundred yards. And 1455 01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:53,400 Speaker 1: I shot a few animals at those distances, but they 1456 01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,960 Speaker 1: were under super controlled situations. And I bet I passed 1457 01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,879 Speaker 1: dozens of animals that I didn't shoot at those distances 1458 01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,840 Speaker 1: because everything wasn't right. And what you see now is 1459 01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,599 Speaker 1: you see people that are just shooting it stuff at 1460 01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:07,960 Speaker 1: long range, you know, and that you know, the animals 1461 01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:10,000 Speaker 1: deserve a better deal of that. I mean, we were 1462 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:13,320 Speaker 1: we older more than that. Yeah, I think it's almost 1463 01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:16,360 Speaker 1: a line where you ask yourself, am I just am 1464 01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:19,320 Speaker 1: I shooting this animal? Or am I hunting this animal? 1465 01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,040 Speaker 1: You know, you reach a point where, yeah, I can 1466 01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 1: shoot that far, but I an't even actually I'm not 1467 01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:28,519 Speaker 1: actually hunting right now, I'm just literally just shooting, you know, 1468 01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:30,880 Speaker 1: when you see you know, and you see it all 1469 01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:33,280 Speaker 1: too often now people, you know, elk at eight hundred 1470 01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:36,720 Speaker 1: nine hundred thousand yards. You can't honestly tell me you're 1471 01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:39,800 Speaker 1: hunting an elk a thousand yards. You're not hunting him, 1472 01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,640 Speaker 1: You're just shooting him, you know. And it's still you know, 1473 01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:44,760 Speaker 1: it still doesn't answer the question how farst too far? 1474 01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:47,320 Speaker 1: You know? But no, if it's it's a it's like 1475 01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:49,559 Speaker 1: an impossible question. It wasn't something that people who're talking 1476 01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:52,080 Speaker 1: about before. I think what what brought it up was? 1477 01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,360 Speaker 1: I guess the range finders. Right range finders changed the 1478 01:14:56,360 --> 01:14:59,439 Speaker 1: whole game, you know, it just it changed everything now, 1479 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,719 Speaker 1: you know, with the rifles we have, you know, the 1480 01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:05,679 Speaker 1: the you know, a rifle can put you know something, 1481 01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:08,400 Speaker 1: you know, a really good shooting rifle put you know, 1482 01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:10,519 Speaker 1: a bullet and an Adian circle at a thousand yards, 1483 01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:12,400 Speaker 1: you know, with a competent shooter, you know, and of 1484 01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,200 Speaker 1: course controlled scenario, you know, a known scenario with wind 1485 01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:17,240 Speaker 1: and everything else that's going on. And I don't want 1486 01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:23,200 Speaker 1: to trivialize this stuff either, because it's difficult. It's not 1487 01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:25,639 Speaker 1: like anybody's gonna pick up and shoot eight. And I mean, 1488 01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:30,439 Speaker 1: it's just there's a lot of technical skill involved in 1489 01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,400 Speaker 1: shooting that kind of stuff and control, a huge amount 1490 01:15:33,479 --> 01:15:35,240 Speaker 1: of guesswork. And mean, Floyd and I went up to 1491 01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:37,040 Speaker 1: and I don't know if you've been to the Vortex 1492 01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:39,720 Speaker 1: Extreme Challenge yet you've done that in Utah, would like 1493 01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:41,599 Speaker 1: you need to go up and watch that sometime. It's 1494 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,240 Speaker 1: pretty interesting. Just like hearing people talking about, oh, it's 1495 01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:49,839 Speaker 1: it's insane. Somebody probably the finest group of Western marksmen 1496 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:54,080 Speaker 1: who are also hunters in ever. You know, they're all 1497 01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:57,160 Speaker 1: right there at that shoot and they're shooting at known distances. 1498 01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,720 Speaker 1: Most of the guys have shot that course before, so 1499 01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,840 Speaker 1: they're you know, what the winds are kind of doing 1500 01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,840 Speaker 1: in those different canyons. And still the winners are not 1501 01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:09,240 Speaker 1: going to shoot. They're shooting between you know, three hundred 1502 01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,000 Speaker 1: and nine hundred thousand yards and they're not going to 1503 01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:16,320 Speaker 1: get hits to win, you know, So they're doing an 1504 01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:20,040 Speaker 1: under a scenario where they're they're they're exercising because it's 1505 01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,960 Speaker 1: all part of the courses. You're hiking a lot, so 1506 01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:24,960 Speaker 1: you're a little bit tired. But there's you don't have 1507 01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:27,680 Speaker 1: an adrenaline rush. You know, it's not like he's not 1508 01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:31,080 Speaker 1: getting away. He's gonna stand targets, gonna stand there perfectly broadside, 1509 01:16:31,200 --> 01:16:34,000 Speaker 1: you know, until you pull the trigger. Yet we're still 1510 01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,080 Speaker 1: not getting hits. But when you see it, you know, 1511 01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:41,080 Speaker 1: when you see stuff on on YouTube and TV shows 1512 01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,000 Speaker 1: and DVDs with you know the guys never miss you know, 1513 01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:47,559 Speaker 1: nobody ever misses. We know that's not true, not showing 1514 01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:49,240 Speaker 1: the part where he's hitting and the guy's calling the 1515 01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:51,679 Speaker 1: bullet flowing any of joustin shoots and calls the bullet 1516 01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:55,920 Speaker 1: and any hits, and like there's a gold at those distances. 1517 01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:58,640 Speaker 1: Those animals they don't even know. They don't hear the 1518 01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,400 Speaker 1: shot half the time, you know, unless you just blow 1519 01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:04,320 Speaker 1: up a rock right at its toes. They rarely get 1520 01:17:04,360 --> 01:17:06,280 Speaker 1: scared off, you know, when you're shooting at them. But 1521 01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:12,559 Speaker 1: to bring a full circle um with with technology creep 1522 01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:21,280 Speaker 1: and the inevitable rise and efficacy on hunter parts, fish 1523 01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:26,800 Speaker 1: and game agencies are gonna adjust and and they have 1524 01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:31,479 Speaker 1: a couple of tools at their disposal, Shorter seasons, fewer 1525 01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:37,639 Speaker 1: tags or moving seasons to less opportune hunting times, all 1526 01:17:37,680 --> 01:17:40,880 Speaker 1: of which mean that because of the things we're talking about, 1527 01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:43,479 Speaker 1: you need to pay attention to and learn how to 1528 01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:48,439 Speaker 1: play the tag game, because like it or not, it's 1529 01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:52,040 Speaker 1: coming to you. It's coming to a woods near you, 1530 01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:58,439 Speaker 1: all right, guys, thank you very much, Thank you for listening. 1531 01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:00,120 Speaker 1: H