1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,759 Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Before we get started, we have a live 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: show to announce. We will be at the National Gallery 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: of our Washington for their n g A Nights programming. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: We'll be doing a live show there on September twelve. 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: The program itself is running from six pm to nine pm. 6 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 1: We're actually going to do our show twice that night. 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: You do have to register for it, but the good 8 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: news is registration is completely free. It's just a matter 9 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: of signing up. Yep. You can come to our website, 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: which is missed in History dot com and you can 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: click on the page where it says live shows, or 12 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: you can go to miss in history dot com slash shows. 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: You will find a link for where you can register 14 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: for tickets ahead of time. Again, this is a whole 15 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: night of programming and we plan to do the same 16 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 1: show two times so that more folks have the chance 17 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: to see it. So we hope to see you in Washington, 18 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: d C. On September twelve. Welcome to Stuff You Missed 19 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: in History Class, a production of I Heart Radios How 20 00:00:54,560 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 21 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: Fry and I'm Tracy Wilson. Back when I was working 22 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: on our recent Thomas Harriet episode, I stumbled across the 23 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: Smithsonian magazine headline that read an ancient Greek philosopher was 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: exiled for claiming the moon was a rock, not a god. Uh. Naturally, 25 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: I was very excited about this. I know, I've been 26 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: doing a lot of cosmology and a lot of lunar things, 27 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: specifically our John Wilkins episode was also recent. I apologize, 28 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: I promise I'll back up off this pony after this. Well, 29 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 1: but then also this is a lot more in the 30 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:38,199 Speaker 1: realm of philosophy than astronomy in a lot of ways. Yeah, 31 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: so we're talking about an astronomer to some degree, but 32 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: really he was a philosopher, and we'll talk about how 33 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: there's some some wiggliness in terms of of those terms 34 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: as related to this person. But naturally, when I read 35 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: that headline, I was like what, I was just completely 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: all in and that headline is not false, But telling 37 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: the story of Anaxagoras and his work in unraveling the 38 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: mysteries of the cosmos is a whole lot more involved 39 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: than that, as any headline would would naturally not be 40 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: able to include everything, and it was in many ways, 41 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,400 Speaker 1: um this work that he was doing was quite ahead 42 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: of its time, and yes, it was ahead of its 43 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: time enough that he was criminally charged for it. But 44 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: there is a lot more nuanced to the story than that, 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: so as is the case with so many people from 46 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 1: the ancient world, the exact birth date for Anaxagoras is unknown. 47 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: It's estimated that he was born sometime around five b C. 48 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: He was born in klazomen A, Anatolia, and that sat 49 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: within the borders of what's modern day Turkey today along 50 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: its western coast. His father had a Sybilis, was a 51 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: wealthy man and he left Anexagoras significant landholdings, but Anaxagoras 52 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,279 Speaker 1: divested himself of his wealth, apparently giving it to relatives, 53 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: and that was so that he could study philosophy with 54 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: out distraction. We don't really have any information on who 55 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: his early teachers may have been. There is some mention 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: of a potential teacher in some writing that that came 57 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: after and referenced back to alex Agrias, but the timeline 58 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: there is a little bit squirrely, so it's not really conclusive. 59 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: But one of the things that really marks his life 60 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: as a philosopher is his heavy interest in science, and 61 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: this was an ideology that was fairly common in Ionia, 62 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: which his birthplace of Klasmine had been apart. Sometime around 63 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: the age of twenty and ax Agaras moved to Athens. 64 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: The exact dates are debated quite a bit for this. 65 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: The reason is that historians have to work back from 66 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: mentions of him, and really this is a case with 67 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: a lot of philosophers have to work back from these 68 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: mentions and other texts to piece together what people's ages 69 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: and locations were at various times. Yeah, one explanation I 70 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: saw said, um, something to the effect of he's referenced 71 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: as a young man, and from that they extrapolate that 72 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: he was twenty because he would have been considered a 73 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: man but still very young at that point. So it 74 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: is that level of fluffy in terms of some of 75 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: the logic. Some of it is a little more sound, 76 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: but uh, that is why we're constantly throwing out these 77 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: caveats that we don't really know the dates. It is 78 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: probable that when he moved to Athens, Anaxagoras brought that 79 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: ideology of scientific study with him, although in the text 80 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: of Diogenes Laertius it says that Anaxagoras actually went to 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: Athens to study philosophy there, rather than arriving in the 82 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: city already educated on the topic. To some degree, we 83 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: know that Anaxagoras was not satisfied with the ideas of 84 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: his predecessors. They were grouped under the umbrella of the 85 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: ionic philosophers, so his work was really creating a new 86 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: path of thought, and that puts him in a category 87 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: often referred to as the pre Socratic philosophers. That term 88 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: comes with its own baggage, but for shorthand and the 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: purposes of this discussion, it delineates the philosophers who were 90 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: thinking of cosmology and the physical universe versus the ones 91 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: that followed, who were more interested in issues of morality. 92 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: There's even a case to be made that these men 93 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: were more like scientific theorists than philosophers, as the term 94 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,160 Speaker 1: is more often used today, and an Exagoras's ideas about 95 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: that cosmos that he tried to unravel would eventually lead 96 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: to some serious problems for him. But to talk about 97 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: Anaxagoras and his philosophy, we first have to talk about 98 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: what came immediately before him. Leading up to an Exagoras, 99 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: there had certainly been other philosophers who were trying to 100 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: deduce how the universe worked and what it was made of. 101 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's something humanity has wondered about for as 102 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: long as we've existed. There had been a popular theory 103 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: in Greece that there was one primary and fundamental element 104 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: that made up all things. A new idea had been 105 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: put forth in the work of Parmenides, who s who 106 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: was estimated to be about fifteen years older than an 107 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 1: ex Agaris. And we should point out again it's another 108 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: caveat as we talk about this, that with any of 109 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: these philosophers that we're discussing, there is a lot of 110 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: interpretation in their work, and as a consequence, we are 111 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: never speaking in absolutes. In the case of Parmenides, he 112 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: wrote a metaphysical poem in which there is a substantial 113 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: section about cosmology, and this is, according to Diogenes Laertius, 114 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: the only work composed by Parmenides. We don't have any 115 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: other works of his for comparison to get a full 116 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: picture of his beliefs and ideas or how any of 117 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: those evolved. So interpretive analysis of this work and others 118 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: varies a good bit in terms of what it's believed 119 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: to be communicating, and there have also been debates about 120 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: the translation of the existing fragments of this poem, which 121 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: is called in the modern vernacular on Nature, although we 122 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: don't know that that was ever the actual title. In 123 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: terms of how Parmenides shifted cosmological thinking, he asserted that 124 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: the idea of one element was just a little too basic. 125 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: It didn't offer any kind of explanation for how the 126 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: universe or the world exhibited change or how things shifted 127 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: around in the heavens. He thought there had to be 128 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: more to it. One of the issues with interpretations of 129 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: Parmenides is that the section of his work proceeding his 130 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: thoughts on cosmology was a discussion of what is and 131 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: what isn't, including the possibility that all reality as we 132 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: perceive it is drastically inconsistent with what actually exists, and 133 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: that the physical world is single and unchanging. So it's 134 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: possible that his cosmological theories were not anything that he 135 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: was seriously putting forth as any kind of objective truth. 136 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: And to further complicate things, we only have one hundred 137 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: and sixty verses of parmenides work, which is estimated to 138 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: have included as many as eight hundred verses, So that 139 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: means that the analysis that exists of it in the 140 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: modern era is piecing together all of this ideology from 141 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: less than one quarter of the total writing. Following on 142 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: this idea, the work of another philosopher, Empedocles, took a 143 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: different and more concrete approach to the problems that were 144 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: presented by the idea of one singular elemental basis for 145 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: all of the physical universe. And Pedocles is unique among 146 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: the group of philosophers were talking about today because while 147 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: his work also only survives in fragments, we have a 148 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: lot more of it than we do for any of 149 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: the others. There are two partially surviving works by Empedocles. 150 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: One is also called on Nature, that's a different book 151 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 1: than the one we just referenced. The other is Purifications, 152 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: although there is also the possibility that these were actually 153 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: two parts of one larger work. That is again a 154 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: matter of debate. But the important thing is that in 155 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: order to reconcile the issue of one element not accounting 156 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: for all of the attributes of a physical universe, he 157 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: put forth the idea of four elements, those being earth, air, fire, 158 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: and water. Empedocles argued that it was these elements that 159 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: were unchanging, income and consistent, and not as Paramendes had argued, 160 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: the entire world being unchanging. This was the basis of 161 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: a cosmology that I addressed parmenides idea of the existing 162 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: belief in a static world, and then reconciled that with 163 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: the change that's always happening. The elements stayed static in 164 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: empedocles version, but they were able to express in different 165 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: and changeable ways. And so we are about to get 166 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: to Anaxagoras and his various ideas that would at least 167 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: theoretically solve some of these issues of philosophical conflict. But 168 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: first we are going to pause for a little sponsor break. 169 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: So we have been talking about all of these various 170 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: philosophers in their ideas of one element that made up 171 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: everything than uh, four elements that make up everything. And 172 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: then we get to Anaxagoras. Uh. He may have only 173 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: written one work, and we only know of that because 174 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 1: it was quoted by so many other philosophers that followed him. 175 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: The actual work is completely lost. He saw the possibilities 176 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 1: of elements in a much more vast way, as in 177 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,719 Speaker 1: he wrote about the idea that there were infinite elements. Now, 178 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: obviously we are not talking about elements in terms of 179 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,479 Speaker 1: the periodic table and the way we understand elements today. 180 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: At this point in history, the idea of elements was 181 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 1: much more about grappling with the physical universe, is building 182 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: blocks through the observable world around us. The microscope, for example, 183 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 1: was almost two thousand years away and would not happen 184 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: until like the fifty nineties. So in an Exagoras was 185 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,520 Speaker 1: talking about infinite possibilities for elements. The examples he used 186 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: were things like bone, leaf, and flesh. He positive that 187 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: quote there is a portion of everything in everything. The 188 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: meaning there was that any given item, like a bone, 189 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: also contained some amount of every other element, which enabled 190 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: them to interact and change one another. Through that interaction, 191 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: it was whatever element any given thing possessed in the 192 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: greatest abundance that defined it as what it was. So 193 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: a bone could contain leaf and flesh, but it mostly 194 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: contained bone, And in this way everything in the physical 195 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: world was connected with a sort of oneness. But elevating 196 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: matter from being just some amalgam of assorted elements was 197 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 1: Anaxagoras idea of noos and Noos in his ideology, is 198 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: interpreted as the mind, intellect, or reason, which he held 199 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: up as the catalyst for creation of all things. In 200 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: the origin of the cosmos, according to Anaxagoras, all of 201 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: the elements were swirling together, not homogeneous, but also not 202 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: defined in any way. He wrote, quote, all things were together, 203 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: unlimited in both amount and smallness. And then Noose set 204 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: things in motion to first rotate around a point within 205 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: the swirl of elemental soup, eventually leading to the separation 206 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: and recombination of various things, to end up with the 207 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: development of the cosmos as it is known to humankind. 208 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: I think, all this is really cool. It is really cool. 209 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: It's one of those things. Where as I research it, 210 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, at what point did this occur to him? Yeah, 211 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: because again we're talking about the fifth century BC. Uh. 212 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: He did not invent the idea of noose. That concept 213 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: had been germinating in some form or another in the 214 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: work of other thinkers preceding him, but he is believed 215 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: to be the first to actually define it. And to 216 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: be clear, this was not the idea of a higher 217 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: power or god entity. Noose is a part of the cosmos. 218 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: The quote finest and purest of elemental particles. This all 219 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: gets a little heavy, but here is a passage that 220 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: he wrote about noose. Quote, all other things part taken 221 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: a portion of everything, while Noos is infinite and self ruled, 222 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: and is mixed with nothing, but is alone itself by itself. 223 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: For if it were not by itself, but we're mixed 224 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: with anything else, it would partake in all things, and 225 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: the things mixed with it would hinder it, so that 226 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: it would have power over nothing in the same way 227 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: that it has now. Being alone by itself, News has 228 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: power over all things. Noose set in order all things 229 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: that were to be and that were, and all things 230 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: that are now. But no thing is altogether separated off 231 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: or distinguished from anything except Noose. This idea of noose, 232 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: as defined by an Exagoras, can be tricky to wrap 233 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: your head around, and that was true at the time 234 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: he was sharing these ideas too. Overall, though noose as 235 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: a concept was pretty well received. Aristotle praised it, although 236 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: he wasn't in favor of a concept of consciousness that 237 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: acted without any sense of ethics or for the best 238 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: of the universe, but randomly. Another criticism from Aristotle was 239 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: that in trying to define noose, an Exagoras was incorrectly 240 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: lumping the ideas of the mind and the soul together. 241 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: And there is some analysis of perception and the idea 242 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: of mind as it relates to individual consciousness in the 243 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: work of Anixagaras, but little of his concepts on these 244 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: particular matters are known. In the writings of Theophrastis, writing 245 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: roughly two hundred years after Annixagoras, there is mention of 246 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: that earlier philosopher an Exagoras having a theory that like 247 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: is perceived by unlike, i e. We are conscious of 248 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: that which is different from ourselves, our norms, et cetera. 249 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: This seems to be more of an issue of sensation 250 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: rather than any sort of personal or identity idea. Though 251 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: i e. We are used to a certain volume of 252 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: noise in our lives, a louder than normal noise will 253 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: be noticed. But Anaxagoras also thought that senses were rather feeble, 254 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: and thus we really couldn't use them to determine truth. 255 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: An Exagaras all so spoke at length of the constant 256 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: shifting that occurred as a result of the ongoing rotation 257 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: of the cosmos. He threw out ideas of coming to 258 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: be and passing away, which his predecessor Parmenides had written about, 259 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: and instead he suggested that things are quote mixed together 260 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: and dissociated from the things that are, the idea being 261 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: that nothing has a true beginning or end, but is 262 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: then part of an ongoing series of shifts. Some things 263 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: are simply arranging and rearranging themselves. Yeah, this even applied 264 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: to the ideas of like birth and death, which is 265 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: kind of a really beautiful and poetic way to look 266 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: at it. And this idea leads into Alexagoras's description of 267 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: the universe, which builds on his elemental and noose concepts. 268 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: So the rotation that new set in motion is central 269 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: to the whole thing, and working from that, he asserts 270 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: that certain elements have been sorted and separated by this 271 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: force of this spin, and uh they created the various 272 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: select steel bodies visible in the heavens. He also put 273 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: forth the idea that the sun is composed of fiery metal. 274 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: His sense of scale with us was way off. He 275 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: estimated the sun to be about the size of Peloponessus. 276 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: The moon, on the other hand, he thought was an 277 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: earthly clump, and he was correct about the nature of 278 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: the moon's appearance. He stated that it produced no light 279 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: of its own, but instead reflected the light of the Sun. 280 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: He also came to the conclusion that the moon wasn't smooth, 281 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: but had mountainous regions. Yeah. If you recall our recent 282 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: episode on John Wilkins, by the time we are into 283 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: the six people are back to thinking the whole thing 284 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: is smooth. But this guy hadn't figured out almost two 285 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: thousand years earlier. Like, no, it's got some gots of topography. Uh. 286 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: Anaxagoras also positive that ongoing cosmic rotation would sometimes lift 287 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: objects into the atmosphere in away from Earth, and that 288 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: these objects could form obstructions that would prevent humans from 289 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: seeing things in space on a key a shan, and 290 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: that same force of the spin in certain circumstances could 291 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: also fling objects to Earth i e. He was describing meteors. 292 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: That discussion of obstruction is related to another more specific 293 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: idea that Anaxagoras is credited with, and that's being the 294 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: first to figure out what caused eclipses. Although he wasn't 295 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: a d accurate, he understood that lunar eclipses were the 296 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: effect of the Earth cutting off the light of the 297 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: Sun that normally reflects off the moon, but he thought 298 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: that solar eclipses and new moons were also linked. Even 299 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: though he didn't have the mechanics all worked out, the 300 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,439 Speaker 1: fact that he spoke of these events as things that 301 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 1: happened when heavenly bodies moved around and got in each 302 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: other's ways, rather than being the work of a deity 303 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: was actually a really important thing, and Anaxagoras may have 304 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: been the original flat earther though. Uh. His idea was 305 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: that the planet's weight was supported by a cushion of air, 306 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: and the Earth, he believed was stationary and was not spinning. Uh. 307 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: Just a little unclear how that works in the spinning 308 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: cosmos theory. So while that's a bit of a disappointment 309 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: because he was kind of an outlier in terms of 310 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: people who really did seem to believe that the Earth 311 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: was flat, they also put forth the idea that there 312 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: could be other worlds inhabited by other people who were 313 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: also creating civilizations. This is a little unclear, though he 314 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: may have been suggesting a vastness of the cosmos that 315 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: could contain other conditions that could create life similar to 316 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: that on our planet, or he could have just been 317 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: riffing on the idea that we mentioned earlier that everything 318 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: contains something of everything else, so potentially right here on 319 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: Earth there are smaller iterations of our own cosmos playing out. 320 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: He believed in the infinite subdivision of matter and its components, 321 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: so that the idea of worlds contained within worlds is 322 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: a possible interpretation of his writing in this area. Yeah, 323 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: his idea of things being infinitely subdividable made me think 324 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: a lot of fractal geometry, and it it's again I'm like, 325 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: I continue to be boggled that he was kind of 326 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: onto the early idea of these concepts, so far ahead 327 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: of it pretty much everybody else. Uh So, coming up, 328 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about the friendship that may 329 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: have led to the trial and exile that we mentioned 330 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: at the top of the show. But first we are 331 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: going to have a quick word from one of the 332 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: sponsors that keeps stuff he missed in history class. Going. 333 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: So now we are jumping to talking for a moment 334 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 1: about Pericles, who was born and estimated five years after Anaxagoras, 335 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,479 Speaker 1: and he was an Athenian born Greek statesman. He has 336 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: known for the construction of the Acropolis and the Parthenon, 337 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: which were both built under his leadership. As ruler of Athens. 338 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 1: He was a big fan of the arts, and he 339 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: and Anaxagoras, who was well known among the prominent men 340 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: of Athens, became quite good friends. The Rule of Paracles, 341 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: which was so significant that it's referred to as the 342 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,120 Speaker 1: Age of Paracles and his and histories at the time, 343 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: was the results of a significant overhaul of the Athenian government. 344 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: Pericles had catalyzed a vote in the Athenian Assembly and 345 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: for sixty two b c E, and that caused a 346 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: huge shake up. The existing aristocratic council called the Areopagus, 347 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,120 Speaker 1: was disbanded after this vote, and one of its most 348 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: prominent and conservative members, Kieman, was exiled. Kieman's removal from 349 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: Athens represented a very serious change in policy. While he 350 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: had remained on the council, he had prioritized an ongoing 351 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: relationship with the Spartans, one that was friendly, But once 352 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: he was gone, it opened up the door for Athens 353 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: to retake Delphi from Sparta, which happened under perocles leadership 354 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: in four forty eight b C. In Plutarch's lives. He 355 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: wrote a number of things about the friendship between Anaxagoras 356 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: and Peracles, but they're very complementary of the philosopher. So 357 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: here's a quote. But the one who most associated with Peracles, 358 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: and whom bestowed on him that dignity and wisdom more 359 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: weighty than demagoguery, and on the whole raised up and 360 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: exalted the worthiness of his character, was Anaxagoras of class 361 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: amen A. Men used to call him Mind, either because 362 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: of their amazement at his great and prodigious understanding of 363 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: natural philosophy, or because he was the first to institute 364 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 1: neither chance nor necessity as the principal order of the universe, 365 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: but rather mind, pure and unmixed among all the other 366 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: mixed things. And the reason that we are giving you 367 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: all of this background on Pericles and his friendship with 368 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: Anlexagoras is to set the stage that while Pericles was 369 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: definitely a powerful ruler who ushered Athens into what what 370 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: we would consider its modern democracy, his leadership did represent 371 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: a very big shift in Athenian politics, and big shifts 372 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: in politics are never universally applauded, so he had plenty 373 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: of critics at all levels of government and the aristocracy, 374 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: and that meant that in being closely associated with Pericles, 375 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: Anaxagoras had the same enemies. There was also the matter 376 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: of Anaxagoras and his writings, which were praised by some 377 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: of the aristocracy, but not really welcomed universally. So again, 378 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: in the words of Plutarch, quote, these are not the 379 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: only advantages that Peracles enjoyed because of his connection with Anixagoras. 380 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,439 Speaker 1: It seems that Paracles rose above superstition, that attitude of 381 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: astonishment about celestial occurrences that is produced by those who 382 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 1: are ignorant about the causes of things, and who are 383 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: crazed by divinity and divine intervention because of their inexperience 384 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: in these areas. Natural philosophy substitutes for festering superstition the 385 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: unshaken piety that is attended by good hopes. So all 386 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 1: of this move to a more scientific explanation of the 387 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: physical world that Anaxagoras was working on was at odds 388 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: with a large part of the population, which remained very 389 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: superstitious and very much you know, in a long term 390 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: cultural tendency to you know, attribute happenings to the gods, Uh, 391 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,159 Speaker 1: the heavens and their movements were explained through fables and 392 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: revered stories that credited gods with various phenomena that weren't 393 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: scientifically understood. So when an Exagara's just started explaining it all, 394 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 1: taking away all of that mystery, it really did not 395 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: make him a particularly popular man. Eventually, in the mid 396 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: fifth century b C. This led to a charge of 397 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: impiety towards the gods leveled against Anexagoras because, to once 398 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: again quote Plutarch quote, at the time people did not 399 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: tolerate the natural philosophers and the so called stargazers because 400 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: they reduced the divine to unreasoning causes, non providential forces, 401 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: and necessary happenings. Because of the close association with Pericles, 402 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: when this impiety charge arose, it was at least partially 403 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 1: motivated as an attack on the ruler of Athens. Yeah, 404 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 1: they couldn't directly go after Pericles, but they could go 405 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: after his friends and kind of weaken his support base. 406 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: And we know that Anaxagoras was imprisoned for a time, 407 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: but his trial is largely lost. There are mentions of 408 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: it here and there throughout the historical record, but any 409 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: record of the actual proceedings is long gone, and it 410 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: appears that there were actually two different charges. There was 411 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: one for impiety and another for medism, which was being 412 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: politically sympathetic to Persia. And that's because two different outcomes 413 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: to a trial of Anaxagoras appear in various writings, and 414 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: we do know that Pericles interceded on the philosopher's behalf 415 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: regarding the impiety toward the god's charge. The end result 416 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: was that Anaxagoras had to pay a fine, and he 417 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: also had to leave the city. So sometime around four 418 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: fifty b c. An Exagaras did leave Athens. He moved 419 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,919 Speaker 1: to Lampsacus, where he lived out the rest of his life. 420 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: There was another trial, probably held without him present because 421 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: he had already left, that led to a death sentence. 422 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: An Exagaras reportedly smiled when he heard about the second outcome. Yeah, 423 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: he was already safe and Lampsacus and Anaxagoras lived until 424 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: the age of seventy two. In that city. He spent 425 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: more than two decades living there, apparently quite happy. He 426 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: was very revered by the citizens of Lampsacus. Uh They 427 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: are said to have celebrated him when he died, and 428 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: today there is a crater on the moon named for him. Yeah. Uh, 429 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: he's fascinating, fascinating creature. I think it is near the 430 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: North Pole and you can actually see it with the 431 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: naked eye on a good clear night where there's a 432 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: full moon, because it has a pretty unique level of 433 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: of height to it that leads into the crater, like 434 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: its lip is high. If I am understanding it properly, 435 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: that is Anaxagoras, the impious philosopher who dared to think 436 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: that things were physical happenings and not deities floating through 437 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 1: the celestial sky. Uh. Do you have listener mail to 438 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: close us out? I do? This is uh a listener mail, 439 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: that is uh. It even in its title mentions that 440 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: it is referring to an episode from four years ago. 441 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: But it made me love it. It's his appreciation for 442 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: narcilepsy episodes despite being four years late. And this is 443 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: from our listener, Christina, who writes high Holly and Tracy. 444 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm a fairly new listener but a long time history enthusiast. 445 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: I've been going back through the archive and I just 446 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: listened to your live program on Safety Coffins dated October, 447 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: in which you mentioned a past an oarcilepsy episode, and 448 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: this led me to immediately go and listen to the 449 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: two ecailepsy episodes from I was recently diagnosed with arcilepsy 450 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: with cataplexy last fall. I really appreciate that you discussed 451 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: how very often o ecilepsy is misdiagnosed or undiagnosed. In 452 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: many cases, it took more than twenty years of complaints 453 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: before a doctor took my complaints seriously, and my symptoms 454 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: were previously misdiagnosed as depression despite no symptoms other than tiredness. 455 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: In my experience, many people have no idea what in 456 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: ourcalepsy is, and those that do have a very limited 457 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: concept of its symptoms. I really appreciate that you both 458 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: highlighted some of the rather surprising to most symptoms and 459 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: brought people's attentions to them. As someone who has been 460 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: trying to understand a diagnosis of our ecolepsy and struggling 461 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 1: to explain it to friends and family, I appreciate having 462 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: the perfect podcast to point them to for an explanation. 463 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: I love all your podcasts. Keep it up. Thank you 464 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: so much, Christina. That's so lovely. I know part of 465 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 1: the reason that I wanted to do those, and I 466 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: think I mentioned it in the episode, is that I 467 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: have a couple of friends in my life who have 468 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: been diagnosed in o ecalepsy, and they so often were 469 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: mischaracterized as just being like lazy or in some cases 470 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: even stupid, which is ridiculous if you know these people. 471 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: Uh So, that's why it's kind of important to me 472 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: to talk about stuff like that. And it's a good reminder. 473 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: Four years seems like a good gestation period for another 474 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: reminder brought about by your emails. So thank you so 475 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: much for writing us. If you would like to write 476 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: to us, you can do so at History Podcast at 477 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. You can also find us 478 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: everywhere on social media as missed in History, and you 479 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: can find us at missed in History dot com, where 480 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: all of the episodes of the show that have ever 481 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: existed more than a thousand all live. Uh. In any 482 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: of the shows that Tracy and I have been working 483 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: on just the past six and a half years or so, 484 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: we'll have show notes. The ones that preceded probably don't, 485 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: but you never know. There are some good blog posts 486 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: back there. We suggest that you subscribe to this podcast 487 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: that helps us and makes your life easier because you 488 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: don't have to hunt for downloads and you can do 489 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: that on Apple podcasts, Uh, the I Heart Radio app 490 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: or wherever it is that you listen. Stuff you missed 491 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: in history Class is a production of I Heart Radios 492 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts For my heart Radio, 493 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 494 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.