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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.

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Speaker 3: Name is Noel.

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Speaker 4: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 4: super producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are here,

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Speaker 4: and that makes this the stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 4: to know. Tonight we're exploring a conspiracy theory that believers

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Speaker 4: will tell you experienced a resurgence recently, and we'll see

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Speaker 4: if that's actually the case. But look, folks, we've all

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Speaker 4: heard of lost civilizations like Hyperborea, Lemuria, Atlantis, all the hits.

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Speaker 4: But tonight's question, what about the Tartarian Empire? Here are

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Speaker 4: the facts.

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Speaker 3: You know, we talked a bit about this off Mike,

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Speaker 3: and this is not something that I was familiar with.

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Speaker 3: I think maybe y'all had delved into this in some

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Speaker 3: previous videos back in the day. But Matt, you had

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Speaker 3: some strong feelings about this topic.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, yeah, uh no, we never covered this back

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Speaker 2: in the day. This is fairly recent, like twenty sixteen

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Speaker 2: to twenty eighteen. This is I'll just be upfront, this

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Speaker 2: is a topic that brings me a lot of personal frustration,

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Speaker 2: and I'm going to do my best to be even

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Speaker 2: keel on this and really think about it.

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Speaker 4: And I hesitated from this topic as well as things

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Speaker 4: like Kazarian stuff because of the virulent anti semitism that

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Speaker 4: pops up, which I personally find profoundly offensive, but not

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Speaker 4: all the Tartarian Empire stuff starts out as an anti Semitic.

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Speaker 4: The phrase may sound unfamiliar or anachronistic to a lot

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Speaker 4: of people the modern day, probably the mainstream, but a

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Speaker 4: few centuries ago, the phrase, or some derivation thereof, was

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Speaker 4: pretty common in the West. When Europeans heard the word

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Speaker 4: tartary for several centuries or one of its many versions

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Speaker 4: like Tartaria and Latin tatarre in France and tata in

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Speaker 4: Germany and so on, it was a term that had

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Speaker 4: this sense of far flung lands, exoticism, mystery. Way over

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Speaker 4: in the East, they thought there was a great and

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Speaker 4: strange area full of unknown treasures, probably weird animals, great

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Speaker 4: terrible warriors, so on and so on. That might seem

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Speaker 4: like an overdone opinion in the modern day. But we

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Speaker 4: have to realize cartography, the science and art of making maps,

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Speaker 4: was still a budding craft at this time. And I'm

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Speaker 4: just gonna put it bluntly. Let's pretend I rolled a

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Speaker 4: one on diplomacy with this one. A lot of those maps.

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Speaker 3: Sucked understandably, so, right, I mean they didn't have mapping technology.

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Speaker 3: I mean, well the head like you know, what do

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Speaker 3: you call them? Sextants and things like that, and compasses,

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Speaker 3: but certainly not any kind of geo location or the

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Speaker 3: kinds of stuff we have today, or even more rudimentary

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Speaker 3: versions of that. So it's understandable that there would be

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Speaker 3: some issues.

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Speaker 2: Well yeah, and depending on how far back you go,

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Speaker 2: everybody's using different measurement systems. That's so, you know, the

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Speaker 2: problem that we have with translation when it comes to

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Speaker 2: words also exists when it comes to things like maps.

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Speaker 4: Look at the Torah into the Bible, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean, like, look at the idea of spans and

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Speaker 4: cubits and shout out to shout out to our Canadian friends.

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Speaker 4: I was talking to some Canadian contacts and they broke

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Speaker 4: down the weird discrepancies between which measurement systems are used

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Speaker 4: for what like, you'll travel several miles to the grocery store,

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Speaker 4: but you'll do it at blank kilometers per hour. It's

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Speaker 4: just very confusing.

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Speaker 3: North of the border, I mean, the rest of the

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Speaker 3: world still kind of you know, rolls its eyes of

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Speaker 3: the fact that we don't use the metric system over

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Speaker 3: here except for certain things. All that to say is

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Speaker 3: that discrepancies between measurements is a historical problem that can

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Speaker 3: persist to this day. If not on the same page,

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Speaker 3: you don't have the same you know, base level, it's

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Speaker 3: hard to understand what you're looking at.

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Speaker 4: So the point is, because there were not really great

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Speaker 4: maps of most places, and definitely no great map of

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Speaker 4: the world, entire people were left to largely speculate and

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Speaker 4: to attempt to assemble puzzle pieces into a greater hole

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Speaker 4: fantasizing we could say about what possibly could be over

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Speaker 4: there across the horizon on the other side of the world.

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Speaker 4: And at this time I think we should pause and

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Speaker 4: shout out other map related conspiracies. One of my favorite

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Speaker 4: the puri raised map. We did do a video on

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Speaker 4: this back in the day because it's a it's a

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Speaker 4: centuries old map that appears to depending on how you

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Speaker 4: read the tea leaves appears to describe the coast of

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Speaker 4: Antarctica without ice.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, with all kinds of different animal species that

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Speaker 2: were hanging out there.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it's pretty neat one. It's a fun rabbit

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Speaker 4: hole to go down. So do check out our earlier

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Speaker 4: videos on that. I think we also had an episode

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Speaker 4: just on some of those maps in general.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the most astounding thing about that

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Speaker 2: map is that it was created in I think the

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Speaker 2: early fifteen hundreds, right, yeah, So if you imagine early

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Speaker 2: fifteen hundreds, Wait, there wasn't ice on Antarctica, your brain

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Speaker 2: can kind of reel and you can go down that

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Speaker 2: rabbit hole of like, well, whoa were they hiding something?

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Speaker 3: What's going on? Was this I don't remember the story,

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Speaker 3: I'm not aware of it. Was this unknown hoax? Or

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Speaker 3: was it? Well meaning? Where did that shake out?

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Speaker 4: It appears to it appears to have been made in

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Speaker 4: good faith. It was after the journeys of Crystabaul Cologne.

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Speaker 4: It comes from. It was drawn on like gazelle skin

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Speaker 4: by a professional cartographer. Is also a military man from

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Speaker 4: the Ottoman Empire. And the thing that's interesting is while

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Speaker 4: this guy appears to be acting in good faith, not

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Speaker 4: pulling a hoax. The most historians will tell you that

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Speaker 4: European culture at least was not aware of Antarctica at

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Speaker 4: all until about eighteen twenty. So this is an interesting

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Speaker 4: look at possible discrepancies in the timeline of human exploration.

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Speaker 4: And we know real discrepancies do exist. People have gotten

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Speaker 4: things wrong. That's not because they were all dunderheads or something.

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Speaker 4: It's just because they did not have the benefit of

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Speaker 4: all the information people have today. The lack of quick

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Speaker 4: communication roots meant trade could be dangerous, unreliable over distance

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Speaker 4: rumors for some reason then as now I'll tend to

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Speaker 4: spread faster than true accurate information. And as a result,

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Speaker 4: Europeans did not have accurate information of this place on

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Speaker 4: the map that was just called tartary you would call

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Speaker 4: it today we call it Siberia Manchuria, which is like

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Speaker 4: northeast China and Central Asia, which is the huge, huge

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Speaker 4: inland spot of land that people have fought over for ever.

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Speaker 4: So cartographers back in the day in Europe looked at

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Speaker 4: what they knew and they said, screw it, let's call

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Speaker 4: this whole part tartary, because you know that'll help us

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Speaker 4: finish a lot of the map because that's a big spot.

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Speaker 2: Well, imagine you have a deadline right from a king

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Speaker 2: or something like, we need to have this map by

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Speaker 2: this time. You're like, oh, Tartary, just call it Tartary.

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Speaker 3: Would they have had knowledge of the different cultures in

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Speaker 3: this area at the time or do they just not care?

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Speaker 4: Figure, It's a good question. It would have been severely

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Speaker 4: limited because for time, the information that would be getting

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Speaker 4: was going to be third or fourth hand or outdated,

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Speaker 4: or they might speak to someone who traveled some part

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Speaker 4: of the Silk Road going through Central Asia. But in general,

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Speaker 4: their knowledge was so limited that they just referred to

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Speaker 4: the people who lived in this area as Tartars because

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Speaker 4: they're from Tartary.

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Speaker 3: Well, and also, I mean, like the the map makers

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Speaker 3: are kind of probably favoring their own culture, and they're

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Speaker 3: looking at their you know, their bosses as kind of

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Speaker 3: the bosses of the world, perhaps the.

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Speaker 4: Non universe a little bit. Also, they famously at bad teeth,

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Speaker 4: which is where the phrase tartar comes from. Nobody fact

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Speaker 4: check that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, we have to remember no human

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Speaker 2: is perfect, right, So the cartographers at the time aren't

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Speaker 2: making perfect maps. Their measurements aren't perfect. The peri Ras

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Speaker 2: map that we just spoke about, the big problem is

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Speaker 2: that it's probably not Antarctica that is depicted that. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it appears that's what Antarctica would be, because of the

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Speaker 2: orientation of what they're drawing. I think it isn't it

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Speaker 2: south north and South America and then all the way

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Speaker 2: down to the tip that's where you see the body

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Speaker 2: that is supposedly Antarctica. But it's probably not that. It's

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Speaker 2: just somebody got something a little wrong.

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Speaker 4: Like look at the scale of these things. So right

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Speaker 4: over here, in a big shout out to our friends

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Speaker 4: down Under, I have above one of my monitors here,

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Speaker 4: I have a full map of Australia, and it's just

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Speaker 4: a map of Australia instead of the world, because the

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Speaker 4: representation of continents on a flat surface is still phenomenally misleading,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean. I hate to say it.

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Speaker 4: Greenland's not that big goes and the African continent is

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Speaker 4: much larger than it is depicted on these flat maps,

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Speaker 4: which is why on a globe we're just saying the

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Speaker 4: problems still exists.

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Speaker 3: It's a two D depiction of a three D problem, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, it's still better than nothing. And that's

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Speaker 4: what these cartographers were working on too. They were working

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Speaker 4: on better than nothing, and they knew that they would

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Speaker 4: be able to improve maps as they acquired more information,

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Speaker 4: better technology for measuring stuff. This idea, this like four

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Speaker 4: point thirty pm on a Friday, energy of we got

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Speaker 4: to turn in the map. Let's just call this whole

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Speaker 4: third of it tartary. That might sound like they're bad cartographers,

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Speaker 4: but the reality is this happened all the time in

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Speaker 4: world maps. You look at early maps from again from

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Speaker 4: Europeans of North America, and that is way off.

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Speaker 3: You guys know what got me excited about the idea

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Speaker 3: of maps. I bet that y'all experienced or had experience

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Speaker 3: with this too. The book and Chuck Jones movie adaptation

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Speaker 3: of The Phantom Toll Booth and the book. There are

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Speaker 3: tons of these maps of this you know, crazy world

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Speaker 3: of that book, and they talk about cartographers. I think

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Speaker 3: that was the first place I ever learned what a

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Speaker 3: cartographer was. Hmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: If we're gonna go personal, I think we all grew

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Speaker 2: up with some kind of map or globe like in

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Speaker 2: our house. Maybe that's the nature of having a teacher

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Speaker 2: as a parent or something. I had a cousin who

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Speaker 2: gave me when I was very young a large, like

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Speaker 2: oversized map of the United States, and I just remember

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Speaker 2: trying to understand how when you're mapping this thing, you

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Speaker 2: get the details on the coast and like imagining someone

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Speaker 2: in a ship somehow I guess sketching, right, the intricacies

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Speaker 2: of that coastlinelets.

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Speaker 3: And all the little jagged little features.

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Speaker 4: Right, I thought they used hot air balloons from a

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Speaker 4: young age, like the theory about the Osca lines.

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Speaker 2: That's brilliant. I never would have even had that thought.

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Speaker 4: I was also wrong.

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Speaker 3: Well, but to that point though, guys, a lot of

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Speaker 3: styling going into these, right, Like these are not intricately detailed,

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Speaker 3: you know, accurate depictions of those coasts. It's just sort

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Speaker 3: of like it looks a little jagged, you know, this

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Speaker 3: far definitely goes out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's is.

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Speaker 2: That true though, or are they actually, like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: a cartography.

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Speaker 4: The problem is that they're often agendas, so there's a

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Speaker 4: lot of nationalism mixed up in this loyalty to king

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Speaker 4: and country. That's why Greenwich meantime is in Greenwich, what

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Speaker 4: far from the center of modern civilization, to be honest,

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Speaker 4: and that's not a ding on the good people of

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Speaker 4: the United Kingdom. But what we see is, and this

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Speaker 4: will come into play later in the show this evening,

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Speaker 4: what we see is, yes, there were agendas at play.

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Speaker 4: That's why you look at early maps and you see

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Speaker 4: the center of the map is often going to be

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Speaker 4: the home country of the photographer. Now that's not necessarily wrong,

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Speaker 4: but it does put a spin into the mix, and

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Speaker 4: it's a spin that you could have missed back in

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Speaker 4: those earlier centuries. It's a spin you could miss today

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Speaker 4: when you watch certain YouTube videos, which is peak foreshadowing.

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Speaker 4: So not everybody accepted this idea, this explanation that map

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Speaker 4: making was an imperfect science back in the day. That's

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Speaker 4: why if you ask about Tartary or Tartaria nowadays, you

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Speaker 4: will find no shortage of people arguing this was not

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Speaker 4: in fact a generic geographic term, but instead it was

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Speaker 4: the name of an ancient, powerful empire which has largely

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Speaker 4: been erased from history and literally buried by natural disaster.

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Speaker 4: What are we talking about, We'll tell you after a

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Speaker 4: word from our sponsors, Big Map. Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 4: Strap in we got to introduce you to something called

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Speaker 4: the mud flood hypothesis. Who doesn't love an abbreviated rhyme

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Speaker 4: like that?

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Speaker 3: So, I mean when you say strap in followed by

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Speaker 3: the mudfla, it makes me feel like we're about to

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Speaker 3: go on a ride at six flags or something that sounds.

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Speaker 2: Like it's going to be about of diarrhea.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, it makes me think of that plane in

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Speaker 4: that sailed to Spain. Another rhyme with just the torrential

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Speaker 4: biblical poop crisis. The mud flood hypothesis is what happens

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Speaker 4: in our office restrooms, right, But this one is centered

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Speaker 4: around the idea that this geographical thing on maps, which

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Speaker 4: is true. You can see old maps of plenty that

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Speaker 4: say Tartaria or tart Tartary or whatever. The idea is

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Speaker 4: that these maps were not describing a general geographic area

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Speaker 4: where photographers had limited information. It was instead describing an empire,

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Speaker 4: an empire that may have stood for centuries. Increasingly people

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Speaker 4: are saying it stood for millennia, spread hudos how far,

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Speaker 4: and it at least ranged the continent of Eurasia. The

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Speaker 4: borders of it change as well, which is interesting. And

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Speaker 4: the further down the rabbit hole you go, you will

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Speaker 4: see that this empire, at least proponents of this theory

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Speaker 4: believe that before it was destroyed, it had enormously advanced architecture,

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Speaker 4: amazing transportation, wireless technology, and technology that doesn't exist today,

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Speaker 4: like free energy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it does have a certain gravitas to it.

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Speaker 3: The name alone, right, especially when it's just plopped on

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Speaker 3: this giant land mass. I could see an initial inkling

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Speaker 3: being like, huh, what's this about? This seems like some

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Speaker 3: sort of kingdom, you know, like something out of the

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Speaker 3: Phantom tot Mooth.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, well it's just thinking about a flood.

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Speaker 2: This conspiracy has flooded social media, and I as as

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Speaker 2: more and more people make videos about this on YouTube

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Speaker 2: and Instagram and TikTok. That the thing that you're talking about,

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Speaker 2: ben at the expansion of the theory itself. It's the

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Speaker 2: ones that I'm seeing now are saying it was a

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Speaker 2: global civilization, right, cover everything including Antarctica and.

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Speaker 4: New Zealand and the Mallori. You were part of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we'll get to that. We'll get to that later, because

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Speaker 4: this is actually a pivotal piece of the turn here.

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Speaker 4: So this concept, right, this already doesn't it feel kind

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Speaker 4: of familiar to anybody who read about Atlantis theories? Yeah,

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Speaker 4: like that's it's like we have Atlantis but at home.

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Speaker 3: You know what you know, Ben, You and I just

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Speaker 3: did an episode about toilets on Regular's History, wherein we

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Speaker 3: discussed how advanced the Roman Empire was and how they

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Speaker 3: had all of this poop technology, uh that was then

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Speaker 3: wiped out by the fall of Rome. So there is

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Speaker 3: historical precedent for stuff being lost to history and buried,

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Speaker 3: you know, their advanced civilization. So I think probably there's

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Speaker 3: some of that feeding into folks like wanting to believe

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Speaker 3: this to be true.

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Speaker 4: Sure. Check out our episode on anachronistic technology or lost technology,

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Speaker 4: Damascus steel, the Bagdad battery, which is electrolysis kind of

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Speaker 4: or electroplating excuse me?

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Speaker 2: And how control the historical record?

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Speaker 3: How? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Who controls the past? Thank that? Yeah, shout out to

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Speaker 4: that one. And we also know that humanity is super

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Speaker 4: talented at losing stuff. You know, That's why the city

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Speaker 4: of Troy was lost and considered mythical. It can happen.

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Speaker 4: These are not coming out of just whole cloth or

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Speaker 4: some kind of sudden fictional bout of revelation and epiphany.

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Speaker 4: Tartari is currently in the mainstream. It's general or the

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Speaker 4: mainstream version of this conspiracy theory says. Look, it's a

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Speaker 4: huge part of Asia and Russia up to the Caspian Sea,

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Speaker 4: in the Ural Mountains, all the way out to the

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Speaker 4: Pacific Ocean, all the way out to Bulgaria. It hits

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Speaker 4: the southern borders of China, India, Iran slash Persia. So

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Speaker 4: it's not just an advanced empire, but it's an extremely

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Speaker 4: large one. And again to your point, Matt, as the

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Speaker 4: folklore splinters and evolves in the game of telephone continues playing,

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Speaker 4: more and more people will make increasingly extravagant and bold claims.

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Speaker 3: I love this idea of wireless technology that certainly would

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Speaker 3: come in handy with an empire of that size. So

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I buy it.

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Speaker 4: Though, Yeah, yeah, I mean, I guess just talking to

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Speaker 4: people as wireless technology.

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Speaker 3: Too, shouting loud enough. Yeah, well, smoke signals is technically

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Speaker 3: less technology.

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Speaker 4: Pigeons, wireless technology, crows a lot of Actually, most technology

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Speaker 4: back then was wireless because they hadn't invented wires either.

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Speaker 3: Not to mention that who was it it was like

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Speaker 3: the seed of bluetooth technology was actually invented by like

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Speaker 3: an actor of a woman whose name is totally is

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Speaker 3: giving me now, in like the twenties or something like that.

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Speaker 3: It was long ago and the seed that led to

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Speaker 3: ultimately bluetooth technology was invented way before anyone figured out

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Speaker 3: quite what to do with it, just just.

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Speaker 4: Saying yeah, and this this happens pretty often. It was

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Speaker 4: heady Lamar, that's right, right, this Happenstarion. Yes, of course

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Speaker 4: check out my YouTube videos, bro, but actually no, do

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Speaker 4: check out our YouTube channel. We promise it's a little

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Speaker 4: bit different from this stuff, although in stuff they don't

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Speaker 4: want you to know, not not tooting our own Eldridge horn.

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Speaker 4: I think you can find some precedents for format of

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Speaker 4: a lot of these videos, quite honest with you. But

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Speaker 4: before we dive deeper into the mud, we got to

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Speaker 4: ask ourselves logically, all right, there's this huge thing. It's

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Speaker 4: the biggest thing ever. They're super advanced. They're all over

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Speaker 4: at least Eurasia, if not the world. They're running stuff.

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Speaker 4: They're in the catbird seed of civilization. But what happened

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Speaker 4: to them? This is where the mud flood idea comes

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Speaker 4: into play, which very interesting. How would we describe that

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Speaker 4: in like a high level term mud flood hypothesis?

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Speaker 2: Well, you have to explain, how in the heck did

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Speaker 2: this giant civilization with all this intense architecture that we

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Speaker 2: haven't even really get fully gotten into the architecture yet,

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Speaker 2: how did it disappear? Why is it not in the

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Speaker 2: historical record? Well, maybe there was a natural disaster that

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Speaker 2: caused all of this stuff not to just be you know,

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Speaker 2: the buildings to be destroyed, but the remnants of those

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Speaker 2: buildings to be covered up literally in dirt.

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Speaker 4: To be literally buried to time. Yeah, that's an excellent

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Speaker 4: that's an excellent summation of it. You know. Then there's

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Speaker 4: the idea that this occurred in step with two other

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Speaker 4: intervening variables. The first is that there was a tremendous war.

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Speaker 4: Either sometimes it's called an internal war. Sometimes it's more

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Speaker 4: of a tartaria versus everybody on the planet war. But

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Speaker 4: either way, the idea is that this ancient war involved

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Speaker 4: the equivalent of what we would call modern energy weapons

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Speaker 4: or nuclear power, or possibly technology is still not possessed

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Speaker 4: by modern nations today. This is similar to the idea

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Speaker 4: that ancient Vedic text described nuclear war, so it's pulling

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Speaker 4: from that as well.

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Speaker 2: But you'll often hear about frequency tools and weapons like

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Speaker 2: that can somehow lock into the well. I forget some

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Speaker 2: of the terminology that's used in these, but you levitate

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Speaker 2: things by shooting sound at large objects and things like that.

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Speaker 3: And this is the same kind of stuff that comes

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Speaker 3: up about Atlantis too, that they had like advanced weaponry

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Speaker 3: and potential technology that doesn't exist. I think it's he

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Speaker 3: can't ignore the parallels.

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Speaker 4: And along the way you'll see, folks, we're pulling out

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Speaker 4: pre existing pieces of other conspiratorial beliefs or alternative revisionist

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Speaker 4: slash pseudo history. The big thing is to a point

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Speaker 4: you were talking about earlier, Matt. Proponents of the Tartaria

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Speaker 4: Empire conspiracy will often also accuse other civilizations of actively

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Speaker 4: erasing Tartaria from the history books. And usually though they'll

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Speaker 4: be accusing civilizations that are a bit older, but still

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Speaker 4: we're around at the time photography was invented or went mainstream,

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Speaker 4: because the proof is in the picture, right, So you'll

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Speaker 4: see a lot of pictures that purport to pardon the

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Speaker 4: alliteration pardon the alliteration that purport to prove this theory.

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Speaker 4: That's a heck of a story. That's the tartaria thing.

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Speaker 4: At the basics. Your mileage may vary. We're giving you

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Speaker 4: the factory issue conspiracy, but you need to understand most

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Speaker 4: of the videos or most of the stuff you encounter

386
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Speaker 4: arguing that this is true. They're going to have their

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Speaker 4: own custom add ons. They're going to talk about vaccination,

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Speaker 4: they're going to talk about flat earth. They're going to

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Speaker 4: say some pretty screwed up stuff about different ethnicities, religions,

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Speaker 4: or creeds, and they're going to say it in a

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Speaker 4: feedback loop form, which is very yes, and and we'll

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Speaker 4: get to that at the end of tonight's show. But

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Speaker 4: why don't we let's look at the proof for this story.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of dodgy. We talked about the countless YouTube

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Speaker 4: videos bringing up in recent years, and you'll often we're

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Speaker 4: not criticizing this, we're describing it. You'll often hear weird

397
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Speaker 4: voiceover describing the conspiracy, accompanied by visuals, often out of context,

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Speaker 4: old photographs of people digging through mud to unearth lower

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Speaker 4: levels of buildings, or someone pointing to a building that

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Speaker 4: like the like the Long Lines building in Manhattan seems

401
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Speaker 4: unusual compared to its neighbors. And then, weirdly enough, you'll

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Speaker 4: see a lot of photos of Robert Wadlow, who for

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Speaker 4: a time was the world's largest man topic the guy.

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Speaker 3: You always see sculptures of at like Ripley's Museums, right

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Speaker 3: eight foot one.

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Speaker 2: There's a connection here to the Smithsonian conspiracy about giant

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Speaker 2: skeletons right right, And the other thing. I just want

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Speaker 2: to point out about those videos there. In every single

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Speaker 2: one I've seen, there is zero sourcing. So it is

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Speaker 2: a person with an opinion about a building, and that

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Speaker 2: building looks way too old to be here in the

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Speaker 2: center of New York City, or way too different. That

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Speaker 2: Long Lines building, like you mentioned, Ben, just sticks out

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Speaker 2: too much. There's no way it wasn't here before New

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Speaker 2: York City was built.

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Speaker 4: You know, real buildings in Chicago, things that have easily

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Speaker 4: traceable histories of construction. And then it's often it's often

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Speaker 4: also presented in a just asking questions, Oh yeah, you

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Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like, hey, hey bro, I'm just

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Speaker 4: asking questions.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that structure was built at the Niagara Falls,

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Speaker 2: Like I can't tell, but that looks human made to me.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm asking, maybe Earth is round now, but

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Speaker 4: when did that happen? Exactly? So, like when did they

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Speaker 4: roll that burrito together? You know it's it's true though

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Speaker 4: that hearing spooky voiceover with sinister archival footage that does

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Speaker 4: sound familiar to us, very much so, and I even

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Speaker 4: feel a little bit like you know, Leaves of Grass.

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Speaker 4: Is this amazing, amazing poetic work by Walt Whitman, But

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Speaker 4: it also gave birth to a lot of terrible free

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Speaker 4: verse poetry.

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Speaker 2: So is this our fault?

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Speaker 4: Is this our fault? It's the question.

434
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: I don't know.

435
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 4: We always wanted to know that we were standing on

436
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 4: a quantitative, like a substantive series of sources. And these videos,

437
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 4: to your point, Matt, they're heavy on good storytelling. Honestly,

438
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: they're just very light on solid, much needed context, Like

439
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 4: we were talking about this off air. They'll point to

440
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: CIA documents from the nineteen fifties that were declassified after

441
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 4: the Cold War, but at the time there were secret

442
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 4: documents studying this efforts of Soviet Russia to yes erase cultures,

443
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 4: to rename areas, to do the same thing that allegedly

444
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 4: happened to the Tartarian Empire. And these are presentatives, smoking

445
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,719
Speaker 4: gun level proof. There's a little bit of truth to it,

446
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 4: you know, Nola, you were talking about different etymological roots.

447
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 4: We love etymology here. But you'll see CIA docs that

448
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 4: are declassified that are available on the websites or on

449
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,479
Speaker 4: the official CIO website right now that say things like

450
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 4: the Khanate of Kason was named Tartar stunt, it was

451
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 4: a republic of the Russian Federation and then it wasn't.

452
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there, So you show video of that document

453
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: right just to still image of that document, and you

454
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: sit there and you talk about it for a while,

455
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: you analyze it without any other context. For a viewer

456
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 2: who might be leaning towards wold, there might be something here.

457
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: It feels astounding and real and definitely proof.

458
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 4: As long as you don't read pass the headline. And

459
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 4: you know that's we got to be honest. We said

460
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 4: it before. There are a lot of hard working people

461
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,120
Speaker 4: in those organizations, but they're not often hired for their

462
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 4: sexy writing skill. The format of these documents is not

463
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 4: you know, is not purple prose page turning stuff.

464
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and speaking of the etymological twists, I guess I

465
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 3: think we're all kind of like dogs with bones when

466
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 3: it comes to this kind of stuff. The word tartary

467
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 3: made me immediately conjure images of the Greek mythological hellscape

468
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 3: that is tartar Us, and just I found a reference that,

469
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: you know, Europeans, who were largely the ones mapping this

470
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 3: part of the world, they had negative opinions about this

471
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: part of the world, often tied to the Mongol invasions. Yeah,

472
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: savage is all that kind of stuff, a lot of xenophobic,

473
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: kind of racist, you know, opinions about this part of

474
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: the world and their civilization. So it's almost like they

475
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 3: were at that are because tatar was one version of

476
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: it that existed prior to this. And then adding that

477
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 3: r was almost like an intentional way in the eighteenth

478
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 3: century of conjuring images of hell.

479
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, we haven't got to yet. But this thing

480
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: coincides with hollow Worth theories, right and underground civilizations and stuff.

481
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 2: It's weird how then the words are just matching up

482
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: with the how the theory has evolved.

483
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 4: It all goes together. It's like a girl talk level

484
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 4: of mixtape. A referenced we care about. But yes, they'll also,

485
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: in addition to these to these ostensible smoking gun level

486
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 4: proofs from the CIA, they'll also spend some time tracing

487
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: the gradual disappearance of the phrase tartary from maps. So

488
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 4: in eighteen twenty four you see that there's China and

489
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 4: there's something called Chinese Tartaria, which is truly north of China.

490
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 4: Simple enough, fast forward decades eighteen fifty, Mongolia begins to

491
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 4: appear where Tartaria was, and China expands to become an empire.

492
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,479
Speaker 4: Eventually Tartaria disappears from view, it's no longer on the maps.

493
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 4: If you are assuming that other cultures are actively working

494
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 4: to hide the knowledge of some super advanced sci fi

495
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 4: civilization from the days of YR, then it does seem

496
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 4: like they're gradually erasing culture. But then if you realize

497
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 4: that map making kind of sucked for a while, then

498
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 4: you can view these exact same process as cartographers getting

499
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 4: better at their craft, you know what I mean. It's

500
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: a bit of a rorshak painting.

501
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: Also, like, I know we're gonna get to more of this,

502
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 3: but like, show me the fossilized laser gun. Where's that?

503
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: You know? I want to see that?

504
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 4: At which point there will be a slight matrix dodge,

505
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 4: which I've done before or too in some things where

506
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 4: it says, well, there's not proof of that, but what

507
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 4: about the antiquate therap mechanism and then boom, you gotta

508
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 4: stock image of that.

509
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: Or or the pyramids at Giza, and the statement is

510
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 2: always we don't understand what these were actually used for.

511
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 2: These specific chambers were actually for this, and that's how

512
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: you know they were able to send free energy out

513
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: to the entire area with that singular great pyramid and

514
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: all this stuff, and you know, it's stuff that you

515
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: can't prove, and it's stuff that you also can't in

516
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: the moment disprove, because the argument is always no, but

517
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: that's a lie, like they put that story there as

518
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 2: a lie to cover up the reality.

519
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 4: But then yes, naturally, the next step is cool, then

520
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 4: build it again, or say specifically why it can't be

521
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 4: done today? Why can't it you know what I mean,

522
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 4: And let's get let's get some of today's top scientists

523
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 4: on it, and then the argument will become, well, they're

524
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 4: not allowed to do it. Oh yeah, yeah, for.

525
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 3: Some reason, it's suppressed or oppressed.

526
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 4: And technological suppression is real it very much is. But

527
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 4: the next thing, the one you see cited the most

528
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 4: the other the more popular reading tea leaves or rorshak

529
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 4: interpretation here orbits around. Architecture believers seek evidence for the

530
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 4: existence of Tartaria in seemingly mismatched architecture found across Europe, Asia,

531
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 4: even parts of Antarctica are very rural places where what

532
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 4: the mainstream considers natural geographical or natural geological formations to

533
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 4: be ancient evidence of large things like now that the

534
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 4: climate is eroding the natural state of Antarctica and mountains

535
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 4: are popping up out of the ice. Stuff like that,

536
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 4: people are going people are going nuts, and no one's

537
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: asking actual geologist about it. So these styles, the architectural styles,

538
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,239
Speaker 4: they argue, are not examples of cross culture pollination, like

539
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 4: the onion domes that you see in Moscow and Saint

540
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: Petersburg and whatever. Seeing those somewhere else like in the

541
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: Middle East, that doesn't mean those people talk to each

542
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: other and architects traded tips and ripped each other off

543
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 4: and stuff. That means that they were all built by

544
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 4: the Tartarians at some point before they were betrayed by

545
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 4: a conspiracy of lesser later empires. Who struck during that

546
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 4: biblical level of mud flooding. So they saw an opportunity.

547
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 4: They hated that Tartaria was great, and for that reason

548
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 4: alone they sank the empire.

549
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 2: Ugh, these buildings are just too intricate. Haters for those buildings.

550
00:33:59,480 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: Haters.

551
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: That's the thing about a lot of these kind of

552
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: like overly oversimplified kind of concepts like this. It totally

553
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 3: discounts the notion of parallel thinking, you know what I mean.

554
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: It's like, no, there has to be there, there has

555
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: to be a connection, it has to be there's no

556
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: other way, there's another way. It's that there weren't you know,

557
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: every idea under the sun didn't exist yet. It was

558
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: early in the historical record. People were coming up with

559
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 3: stuff at the same time, you know, hundreds and hundreds

560
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 3: of miles apart from one another, with no means of communicating.

561
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 4: Right, Like we see this all the time, Like a

562
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: pyramid is just actually a very durable way to stack rocks.

563
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 4: That's why they stick around longer than towers. So going

564
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: back to the architectural idea here in the Tartarian Empire conspiracy,

565
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 4: the concept is that there are in general, not a

566
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 4: ton of different types of architecture. There are only two. First,

567
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 4: modern architecture described as is brutalist, it's cheap, it's quickly produced,

568
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 4: it has no personality, and Frank Lloyd Wright is not

569
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: real or whatever. And then there's everything else. Everything you

570
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 4: think is interesting is actually Tartarian architecture. Anything that looks ornate,

571
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 4: pre modern, anything that's classical, anything that is an interesting

572
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 4: Western style. Sometimes it's also applied to non Western structures,

573
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 4: the taj Mahal, the Pyramids, the Great Wall of China. Essentially,

574
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 4: at some point in the Tartarian Empire conspiracy, they built

575
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 4: everything that looks cool. Everything that is not cool was

576
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 4: built by the enemies of Tartaria. You can see this

577
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 4: as a bit of a broad brush. I, for one,

578
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 4: think brutalist architecture looks mad cool.

579
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: That's just mean.

580
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's really interesting, and some of it's

581
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 3: very intricate. If it's you know, it's obviously minimal, but

582
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 3: it's like minimal maximal kind of it's interesting.

583
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: I don't know, isn't There's some few energy about brutalism

584
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: that I really dig I don't know. It's just that

585
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: coach every geometrical simple structures with class. I don't know, man,

586
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: I mean I'm into it. You guys are familiar with. Like,

587
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 2: so we're in Atlanta, and if you look at some

588
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: of these really fancy neighborhoods, they'll have a new construction

589
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 2: that has a house, but it'll have a house that's

590
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: like just rectangles kind of stacked in weird configurations.

591
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 3: Totally out of place, stick out like a sore thumb

592
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 3: amongst the old classic, you know, picket fence type houses.

593
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: Right well, I'm trying to figure out why I'm so

594
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 2: obsessed with it, Like I love.

595
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 3: It in some way cool when they make sense, Like

596
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 3: if you go to like Los Angeles or whatever, and

597
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,759
Speaker 3: you see all these houses in the Hollywood Hills or

598
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: like San Francisco and stuff, they make sense. They're sort

599
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 3: of like there's a certain continuity to them. But here

600
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 3: they just feel like some rich person had a bunch

601
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 3: of money and just plopped one down kind of just

602
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 3: sticks out like a sore thumb. I don't dislike the architecture.

603
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 3: I just dislike how doesn't have a continuity to it.

604
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's just me.

605
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 4: So we can agree, though, you guys can agree that

606
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 4: maybe this concept of all architecture being two schools or

607
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 4: only two categories is a bit misleading.

608
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: It's absurd.

609
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeahulous, I just wanted to know.

610
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 4: I feel you, man, and it's true. Like there's so

611
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 4: architecture is like any craft. It is an opportunity for

612
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 4: creative expression, constrained by common things right function, right function,

613
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 4: environmental variable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The issue

614
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 4: is like any other art, architects, construction workers, everybody, they

615
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 4: came up with multiple answers to this and multiple creative answers.

616
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 4: So calling it all tartarian architecture feels cool, feel like

617
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 4: it's part of a global conspiracy that you figured out.

618
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 4: But it also it's kind of crappy to millions of

619
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 4: people who worked really hard on expressing themselves or building

620
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 4: cool stuff.

621
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: It's the same way it feels crappy you to slap

622
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 3: tartaria on this vastly culturally different part of the world

623
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 3: with among these borders in that giant chunk on that

624
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 3: old map, huge differences. There's no you know, singular culture

625
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 3: in that part of the world. They're all very, very

626
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 3: different and have their own backstories, and it seems to

627
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 3: me like a reductive view of racist European map makers.

628
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 4: Well, it's also you know, we see it again with

629
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 4: ancient Aliens. There's no way people backed inn could have

630
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 4: built that. And also I think the phrase mongol horde

631
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 4: is a little bit of negative pr Although sup were good,

632
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 4: they did some terrible, terrible, terrible things.

633
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 2: Can we give one example of the architecture, just a

634
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: one building, right, yeah, just we mentioned the Long Lines

635
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 2: building right already, the crazy brutalist no window having weird

636
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: structure in Manhattan.

637
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,760
Speaker 4: Right, but nothing sketchy.

638
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 2: But again that kind of doesn't fit the mold of

639
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: this because it is more of a brutalist structure, more

640
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: modern thing of Singer Building. The Singer Building is an

641
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: excellent choice to think about ben because it's built in

642
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: the super late eighteen hundreds. It only sticks around until

643
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven when it is demolished. It was for

644
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 2: a time the tallest building in the world when it

645
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: was created, at like six hundred and twenty feet in

646
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: the air. And it seems to fit this mold really

647
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 2: well of this conspiracy because it was crazy intricate, the

648
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: especially the work on the home thing. Yeah, and the

649
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 2: work on the outside of the structure. Right, So if

650
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,959
Speaker 2: you behold it from street level there in New York,

651
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: it's this incredible looking ornate thing. But then why was

652
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: it you know, it was the tallest building. Why did

653
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 2: they crash that thing down after what seventy years?

654
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, so a Chicago federal building, which was had a

655
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 4: larger dome than the Capitol, was raised only sixty years

656
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 4: after its completion. You'll find people arguing as well, proponents

657
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 4: of this theory that World War two happened because modern

658
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 4: powers were fighting over stealing secrets of old Tataria or

659
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 4: destroying all traces of its existence. So people weren't being

660
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 4: bombed because world powers were in a war. These places

661
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 4: were being bombed to get rid of those buildings.

662
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: And that's a theory that goes back to theories about

663
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 2: the invasion of Iraq by the United States when we

664
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 2: were supposed to be fighting al Qaeda and terrorism. There

665
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: are so many theories out there about the true reason

666
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 2: that we.

667
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 4: Were getting ancient artifacts from the National Museum.

668
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that actually was happening right with the museums

669
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: were rated right, and absolutely integral historical structures were just

670
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 2: demolished during that war.

671
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 4: That one theory though the Artifact story just in full disclosure,

672
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,839
Speaker 4: that's close to me because I wrote a pretty good

673
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 4: sci fi story about no straight up horror story about it.

674
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 4: But yeah, the idea that there are ulterior motives behind

675
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 4: these large scale world conflicts, that's not distinct to World

676
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 4: War Two. It's not distinct to a rock. It's not

677
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 4: distinct to Vietnam, the Korean War. Pretty Much every war,

678
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 4: just because of the global toll it takes, is going

679
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 4: to have numerous, numerous alleged ulterior motives, and sometimes, just

680
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 4: to be completely freakin' honest, those motives are true. Sometimes

681
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 4: there definitely are ulterior motives. Like Goddafi was a real

682
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 4: piece issue way before he ever got deposed, and then

683
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 4: he started messing with the hegemonic currency of the region,

684
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 4: which is the French African dinar, right, and he wanted

685
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 4: to make his own, the African franc and he wanted

686
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 4: to make his own kind of African equivalent.

687
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 3: Of the Euro.

688
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: Say big no no.

689
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 4: It was a big no no, and he can read

690
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 4: about it. So whenever somebody says, whatever, somebody speaks to

691
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 4: you in terms of like ideology, the greater good, we're

692
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 4: doing the right thing. American spirit whatever, not the cigarettes.

693
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 4: But yeah, those two ask what resources are in play,

694
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 4: and there's where you'll find the answer. But the problem

695
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 4: with this architecture too, and the ideas of the war

696
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 4: well more so in the architecture, is that each in

697
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 4: every case we have found when you see the photos

698
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 4: that pop up about this theory, there isn't to your point, Matt,

699
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 4: there isn't clear sourcing. You can find the providence of

700
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 4: the photos through something as simple as Google's image search,

701
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 4: and every time they lead back to clearly explainable, documented things.

702
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,760
Speaker 4: If you go back to the proponents of these theories,

703
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 4: they may say, Okay, yes, and I acknowledge that that

704
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 4: part might not be true, that hebro what about this,

705
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 4: and then you have to go repeat it.

706
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I'm just thinking about the Singer building. You

707
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 2: can go online right now and see archival photos of

708
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: that building in construction at the time in eighteen eighty

709
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: nine or whatever it was, and you can actually see that.

710
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,760
Speaker 2: But it often it is not enough proof to convince

711
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: somebody that that image isn't fake, right, And it kind

712
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 2: of makes you question yourself to some extent. I think

713
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 2: that's why maybe this theory is so attractive to a

714
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: lot of people because it's got that matrix vibe to

715
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 2: it where it makes you think, oh, well, maybe I

716
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 2: don't know the whole truth. Maybe they have been pulling

717
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: something over my eyes and I literally am unable to

718
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: see it because of the lens I got.

719
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 4: And I like this thing. We're going into self image

720
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 4: because that's going to be very important to the final

721
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 4: turn of tonight's story. The proving or disproving these concepts

722
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 4: to it becomes even more tedious. It's like when Hercules

723
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 4: had to do all those crazy tasks. It is indeed

724
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 4: a herculean task to try to address each point of

725
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 4: these theories, because these theories have become fractals. Right inside

726
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 4: you find a larger pattern associated with another thing, and

727
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 4: it continues ad infinitum. The more fantastical claims will argue

728
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 4: Tartaria was home to giants, and then boom, in your

729
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 4: that's where Robert Wadlow shows up, and they'll say the

730
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 4: mud flood that wiped wiped out this ancient empire of

731
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 4: superquol giants was also the basis of biblical flood myths,

732
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 4: and people have been lying to you about the true

733
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 4: timeline of human slash giant civilization.

734
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: You haven't even thought about the Nephilim yet, dude.

735
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 4: Right, you haven't even been by the employee only area

736
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 4: of the Smithsonian, right, because you don't have the clearance

737
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 4: to get past the cafe. And that's why, for this reason,

738
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 4: Tartarian Empire conspiracies as a group have been called the

739
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 4: QAnon of architecture. Like QAnon theories, this stuff continues to splinter.

740
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 4: More and more people add their own spins or agendas

741
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 4: to the modern folklore, and I think that leads us

742
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 4: naturally to what could be called arguments against Tartaria. So

743
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 4: maybe we take a break from our sponsor, who is

744
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 4: of course big mud Flood, and will be back to

745
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 4: dig into why historians don't believe this. We're back, all right,

746
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 4: So let's set aside the easily disprovable photographs for a second.

747
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 4: More proof against this theory or the reasons why people

748
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 4: who don't believe it say that it's malarchy. First, despite

749
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 4: rocking this patina of the ancient past, it turns out

750
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 4: Tartaria and the mudflood is a very recent thing. Brian

751
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 4: Dunning over Skeptoid says this idea exists almost entirely on

752
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 4: the Internet, if not entirely the While it pulls a

753
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 4: lot of ancient stuff or much older conspiracy theories as

754
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 4: a single consolidated core idea, it only dates back to

755
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:04,439
Speaker 4: Get This twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, which means that our

756
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 4: conspiracy to start this little show is older than the

757
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 4: conspiracy of Tartaria, at least the way it is presented.

758
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 4: The skeptoid investigation of this is really interesting because they also,

759
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 4: like we were talking about, using Google reverse image search

760
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 4: and things like that, they're using They're using Google trends

761
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 4: to trace the popularity of phrases like mudflood, mud flood theory,

762
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 4: or Tartaria, and it looks like the Internet overall wasn't

763
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 4: really responding to this stuff until about December of twenty eighteen,

764
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 4: which causes Dunning to go see if he can find

765
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 4: an origin point for all these YouTube videos, and the

766
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 4: closest he got is he found a one YouTube user

767
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 4: named Philip Druzenen who had been posting videos about mudflood

768
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 4: concepts since August of twenty sixty very low viewership at first,

769
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,359
Speaker 4: he keeps doing it. He's in it for the love

770
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 4: of the game. Right, and he's probably a good faith

771
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 4: actor too, he's not trying to like necessarily sell a

772
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 4: book or whatever. And then in December twenty eighteen or

773
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 4: January twenty nineteen, he got an enormous spike and downloads,

774
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 4: right around the time the mainstream Internet started saying, tell

775
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 4: me more about this mud flood.

776
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 3: Interesting. I mean, it does seem that he was, like

777
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 3: you said, you know, acting in good faith and was

778
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: maybe even a little confused as to why he all

779
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 3: of a sudden got this boost in attention.

780
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, And there was other stuff getting real, real

781
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 2: popular and maybe even kind of connected to this theory, what.

782
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah.

783
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 4: And for Dunning's part, he is not so much interested

784
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 4: in why the spike and attention occurred, why this mainstreaming

785
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 4: occurred when it did, as he is concerned or I

786
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 4: take it to me fascinated by the crazy growth of

787
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 4: this theory, similar again to the growth of QAnon, as

788
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 4: you pointed out, and that I think is what can

789
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 4: make Tartaria as a concept dangerous because it can be weaponized,

790
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 4: just like QAnon got started out with asking questions, which

791
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 4: is what this show is all about, and then led

792
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 4: to you know, led to people driven to desperation and

793
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 4: showing up in a pizza place strapped and ready to

794
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 4: shoot folks. Right, that's the concern people have about the

795
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 4: leveraging or weaponization of Tartaria.

796
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 3: You know.

797
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 4: That's why you can easily because there's a guy named

798
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 4: Peter Diddo talks to Bloomberg and he describes Tartaria and

799
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 4: QAnon as both having cafeteria quality. There's no single authoritative

800
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 4: voice really, a little.

801
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: Of that makes it together. Got myself a cast role.

802
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, everybody is interpreting images in videos and just

803
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: kind of giving their own spin and what they think

804
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: it is.

805
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 4: It's like a CP or house of leaves.

806
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, which again makes it fun when you're in it.

807
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,880
Speaker 2: When you're participating in it, it's exciting you're sharing this

808
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,880
Speaker 2: concept that you've had, right, Oh man, I had this idea.

809
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe people will like it.

810
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 3: It's it's almost more like being part of a massive

811
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 3: online game than it is actual research or actual you know,

812
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 3: like we're being completely non biased about this. You're in

813
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: a community that clearly kind of has an end goal

814
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 3: in mind, and you're playing along. You know, I mean

815
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 3: not to disdiminish anyone's you know, internet time or whatever,

816
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 3: but I think it's easy to get sucked into that

817
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,879
Speaker 3: because it does start to feel like you're playing your

818
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 3: you're living your own choose your adventure kind of situation.

819
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would, I would agree with that, and I

820
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 4: would expand on it to say that this reminds me

821
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,400
Speaker 4: very much as a new iteration one of my favorite

822
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 4: games from the surrealist movement, Exquisite Corpse. I write a sentence,

823
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 4: you write, the next one pass to great, and we

824
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,959
Speaker 4: don't know what story will end up being. I would

825
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 4: also say that the cafeteria quality in Tartaria is it's

826
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 4: worse than an actual cafeteria because you don't get to

827
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 4: just pick from the stuff that's already at the buffet.

828
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 4: You could bring your own thing from home and share

829
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 4: it with the class. And that's why you can easily

830
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 4: find arguments about Tartaria descending into racism, anti semitism because

831
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 4: of course, as well as Russian nationalism, which is huge

832
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 4: in this shout out to Phantom time man.

833
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 3: You can really easily in this scenario end up with

834
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 3: something that the Zelda games called dubious food.

835
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 4: Or chunks.

836
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 3: It's when you're cooking in the Zelda games, and you

837
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 3: combine ingredients that don't go together, you end up with

838
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 3: this weird, blurred pile of sludge that they call dubious food.

839
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 4: But when you try to make a potion blind and

840
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 4: Skyrim and you get your ingredients wrong. And so this

841
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 4: is something that's strange because Bloomberg and a couple of

842
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 4: other investigators not associated with Bloomberg did what we've been

843
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 4: describing a survey of videos and discussions in various forums

844
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 4: and subredits and so on, and you see the conspiratorial

845
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 4: threads all connect, and they all connect with these other agendas,

846
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 4: other weirdly specific things like if you have you ever

847
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 4: just had a general conversation with someone and they keep

848
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 4: going back to a really specific thing, you know, they're like, well,

849
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 4: you know what, that reminds me of the Byzantine Empire,

850
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 4: And you're like, really, Tina Turner, all right, bro, walk

851
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 4: me through it.

852
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: You have some weird combos.

853
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: Ben, remember if this was on the if we was

854
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 3: on the episode, if it was beforehand. But the idea

855
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:04,880
Speaker 3: of like, well what about the anti kilar mechanism, Like

856
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 3: that's unrelated but similar enough to like give my question

857
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 3: about buried laser guns I think, yeah, it was, it

858
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 3: was earlier. But it's it's a it's just a tactic.

859
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 3: It's a it's a rhetorical tactic. You know. It's like,

860
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 3: I don't really have any proof, I don't have a

861
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 3: leg to stand on. Let me throw out this diversion,

862
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 3: you know. And then there's and that's why you will

863
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 3: see someone come in and say, well, also flat earth,

864
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 3: don't get vaccinated. That presidential alert from a while back

865
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:38,319
Speaker 3: turns people into five G zombies. Uh, the banking cartels

866
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 3: and you know, denial of the Holocaust and stuff like that.

867
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 3: And you'll even see historical recasting of who who were

868
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 3: the Tartars, right, that's the billion dollar question. You'll see

869
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 3: arguments that actually in Central Asia during the times of

870
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 3: the Mongol Empire, these people were red haired, blue eyed,

871
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 3: and you're damn sure they were white. So Silk Road areas,

872
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 3: it goes off the rails or into the mud so quickly.

873
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 3: I think we could take just a second to shout

874
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 3: out how Russian nationalists very effectively weaponized this. We did

875
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 3: an earlier episode on Phantom Time. The idea of phantom

876
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 3: Time is that several hundred years in the acknowledged mainstream

877
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: timeline of human civilization are totally made up. And the

878
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 3: implication is they were totally made up as a way

879
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 3: of downplaying Russia's great role as the global superpower, and

880
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 3: that all the enemies of Russia, which are everyone but Russia,

881
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 3: has lied to their children. They're still pretty sore about that. Huh.

882
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're pretty sorry about that. Although Putin just went

883
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 4: out and did some myth busting yesterday, guys. He says

884
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 4: he he says they got the official conclusion back on

885
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 4: Pregosian's plane. He said they the Wagner group was on

886
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 4: the plane. They got drunk, they started playing with hand grenades,

887
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 4: and they exploded themselves. Cool you that's what he said. Wow,

888
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 4: he said that, He said they were That's that's his

889
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:15,960
Speaker 4: understanding of events from.

890
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 2: Crazy that I could kind of see that happening.

891
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the thing that so wild. One person's myth

892
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 3: buster is another myth maker. You know, this is that

893
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 3: is out of control.

894
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 2: Just just to stampoot for a second. Did you see

895
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 2: the footage of him, uh cheers ing with Kim Jong un.

896
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: They both had champagne. Did you see that where they're

897
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 2: standing together for a photo op. They do a cheers,

898
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: and then they both kind of look at their champagne

899
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 2: glasses like you drink first, No, no, you drink.

900
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: Somebody should memify that. That's perfect.

901
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 4: Their lives are memes in the worst way. But if

902
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 4: we look at this Russian weaponization of Tartaria, than what

903
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 4: we see is the argument says Tartaria is a real

904
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 4: lost empire. It's the actual real name of Russia. They're

905
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 4: trying to hide the true historical glory of Russia from

906
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 4: the world and from the Russian people. The implication being

907
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 4: that Tartaria should rise again as what it really is,

908
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 4: Russia the one global superpower. And so we always have

909
00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:26,319
Speaker 4: to ask questions first, why would world governments cover all

910
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 4: this amazing stuff up. There's no one answer. It depends

911
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 4: on which version of the theory or reading on the

912
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 4: flip side. Why would somebody enter your conversation about Tartaria,

913
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:42,280
Speaker 4: even if it's just fun, you know, creepypasta speculative stuff.

914
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 4: Why would they enter that conversation and strongly push for

915
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 4: one specific point about their own pet theory or belief.

916
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 4: This teaches us a great deal about the human mind

917
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 4: and social dynamics. People are not stupid, people are like

918
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 4: the photographers back in the day, working with the information

919
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,399
Speaker 4: they have the ability or inclination to access. And that's

920
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 4: why you see, like, Okay, this bugs me, and this

921
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:09,280
Speaker 4: might be a hot take, but I've seen it happen

922
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 4: so many times, so many things. This happens in a

923
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 4: lot of conspiracy theories. There's an attempt to gain community

924
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 4: as well as, even more importantly, a sense of importance

925
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 4: or meaning to oneself and one's own identity. That's why,

926
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 4: you know, somebody in New Zealand says, here's the truth

927
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 4: about Tataria and the Maori people, right, And I was

928
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 4: shocked to find that out because.

929
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 3: I am Maori.

930
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 4: That's it's similar to so many genealogical groups. You guys know,

931
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,959
Speaker 4: I'm a lungeon. And one of the most weird things

932
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 4: about that is whenever somebody comes up with a conspiracy

933
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 4: theory about a real tri racial isolate, their conspiracy theory

934
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 4: always goes back to And this changed my understanding of

935
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 4: myself and it turns out that I'm awesome, And that's

936
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 4: kind of sad.

937
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 2: What kind of architecture is being hidden up in the

938
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: foothills of Tennessee, man.

939
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 3: Or there's also the flip side of that, where I

940
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 3: forget the guy's name, but there's like a PBS show

941
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 3: where they dig deep into people's genealogy and it turns

942
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 3: out that my great great grandpapa owned all the slaves,

943
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 3: and now I'm awful, or at the very least, it

944
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 3: makes me rethink my whole perception of my family line,

945
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:27,439
Speaker 3: you know.

946
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 4: The inclination being hey, internet strangers, Hey, other people think

947
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 4: more about me, because that's what humans love. They want

948
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 4: to center themselves, right, It's a conversation is more interesting

949
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 4: when I feel it is somehow about me says humanity,

950
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 4: and that's not cool. It's not fun for you know,

951
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 4: the other people who also exist in the conversation unless

952
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 4: they can identify with that or they can have some

953
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 4: sort of buy it if they can yes, and their

954
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 4: way into saying yes, that's true. And also as someone

955
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 4: like I'm just making up a weird example like and

956
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:12,920
Speaker 4: also as someone from as someone from Turkey, this is

957
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 4: how it applies to me, and so it's it's a

958
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 4: feedback loop, right, And that's why otherwise completely rational people

959
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 4: will agree with folks who might be bad faith actors,

960
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:28,880
Speaker 4: might be paid internet trolls, intruding their communities, then you can.

961
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 4: If you try to disagree, even politely, you might be dismissed.

962
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 4: You might be confronted with hostility because you are disincentivized

963
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 4: from disproving something that is clearly untrue. You are strongly

964
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:45,200
Speaker 4: incentivized to accept that. And yes, and your own spin

965
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:46,200
Speaker 4: of new speculation.

966
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 3: Well, if you're the member of a society where this

967
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 3: kind of revisionist history is kind of part of the

968
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 3: ideology of whatever regime is in power, and you go

969
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,440
Speaker 3: against it, you could be killed.

970
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I do want to discount this either anytime

971
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 2: any let's say category or style of video content, audio content,

972
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,880
Speaker 2: as soon as it starts to take off in popularity,

973
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 2: right and catches fire, there are going to be countless

974
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 2: individuals who look at that and think, Okay, I'm going

975
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 2: to make that type of content too, because I can

976
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 2: probably create a revenue stream for myself. Right sure, And

977
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 2: it could be and it could not be nefarious in

978
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 2: any way. It's just, hey, I can actually make some

979
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: money maybe if I make tartarian conspiracy videos, right.

980
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 4: And if I use chat GPT or another similar thing. Correctly,

981
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 4: I don't have to write it either. It can just scrape,

982
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 4: and it can scrape and make more of the same

983
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 4: of what has already been proven to be successful. That's

984
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 4: what I'm saying.

985
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 2: And what you end up with is a giant Internet

986
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,360
Speaker 2: mud flood of videos about tartaria exactly.

987
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, yeah, is it okay if I return to

988
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 4: the feedback loop because they just want to finish, I

989
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 4: want to close the loop on this. The reason it

990
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:07,560
Speaker 4: works is people are strongly incentivized to accept a proposal

991
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 4: or speculation in this social sphere, and then further you

992
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 4: add your own, maybe something a little more centered around

993
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,680
Speaker 4: your self image, your pre existing beliefs, your agendas, and

994
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 4: you do that because you will receive validation, heightened importance

995
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 4: to the group, and return. It's a dopamine casino all

996
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 4: over again. And that means that everybody wants their turn

997
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 4: on the swing, everybody wants their spot on the merry ground.

998
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 4: So that just increases the speed of the game and

999
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,920
Speaker 4: then soon enough, rinse, repeat and boom. Just like swimming

1000
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 4: away from the shore in the ocean, you might turn

1001
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 4: around and think you were swimming straight, but you realize

1002
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 4: you're miles away from where you began. And that means

1003
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 4: like as much as we love improv online conspiracies might

1004
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 4: require us to trade our yes and for a little

1005
01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 4: bit of well, actually, or the Socratic method, you know,

1006
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:03,479
Speaker 4: which is a more friendlier way of the open hand?

1007
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:04,600
Speaker 4: Why is that?

1008
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:05,160
Speaker 3: Well?

1009
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 4: What about this?

1010
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 3: You know?

1011
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,919
Speaker 4: And maybe we give in the interest of fairness, because

1012
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 4: again it's a great investigation. I say we give the

1013
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 4: very last word to Brian Dunning. At the end of

1014
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:19,439
Speaker 4: his examination, he asked a great question, why did these

1015
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 4: tartarian giants live in houses and buildings the exact same

1016
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 4: size as ours?

1017
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 3: Mic Drop Dunning?

1018
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,439
Speaker 4: Let us know what you think, folks, So we hope

1019
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 4: you enjoyed this. We clearly have some feelings about it.

1020
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 4: We want to hear your thoughts. We want to hear

1021
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 4: maybe the most interesting extreme versions you found. We want

1022
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 4: to hear. Yeah, just let us know what's.

1023
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 1: On your mind.

1024
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 4: Let us know what episodes you think we should cover

1025
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 4: in the future as well. We want to be easy

1026
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 4: to find on the internet. All you have to do

1027
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 4: is go to your local tartarian forum. Kidding Kitdting, I

1028
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 4: think yeah.

1029
01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 3: You can find us on x KA, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook,

1030
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 3: at the handle conspiracy stuff on Instagram and TikTok. We

1031
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 3: are conspiracy stuff show.

1032
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 2: Hey, do you like using your phone to use your

1033
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 2: voice to make a call, Well you can call us.

1034
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. When

1035
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 2: you call in, you've got three minutes, give yourself a

1036
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 2: cool nickname. We don't care what it is, and let

1037
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 2: us know at some point if we can use your

1038
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 2: message and voice on the air. If you got more

1039
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: to say than can fit in those three minutes, why

1040
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: not instead send us a good old fashioned email. We

1041
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 2: read everything we get.

1042
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 4: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1043
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1044
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1045
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.