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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace August five, September five, October five,

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Speaker 1: November five, December five, January five, February five, March five,

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Speaker 1: April five, eight months since this incredibly beautiful woman, but

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Speaker 1: forget her physical beauty, mother of five, mother of five.

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Speaker 1: Let that sink in. I'm a mother of two and

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Speaker 1: I can hardly hold it together every minute. I need

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Speaker 1: to do something else for the twins. A mother of

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Speaker 1: five is found naked, raped, bludgeoned so badly her face

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Speaker 1: was practically gone. She had been beaten so badly and

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Speaker 1: left out on the maw and paw hiking trail. Who

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Speaker 1: did this thing? As a family member of a murder

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Speaker 1: victim myself, it's really hard to take the next step

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Speaker 1: to actually take a shower and get dressed and drive

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Speaker 1: to the store, or go back to school, or resume

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Speaker 1: your job, or listen to the phone ring or play

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Speaker 1: music on your car radio. Yeah, all of that's hard.

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Speaker 1: This mother of Rachel Morin, she's stuck in a quagmire.

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Speaker 1: She can't move forward, she can't go back because there

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Speaker 1: is no justice. I'm talking about beautiful mom of five,

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Speaker 1: Rachel Maurn. We've got the purpse DNA. We've got a description,

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Speaker 1: We've got one heck of a composite, but no purp. Today.

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Speaker 1: Joining me Rachel's mother, I'mancy, Grace. This is crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Good evening, and thank you for being with us. With

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Speaker 1: each tick of the clock, each moment, each minute, each

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Speaker 1: hour that passes the memory of Rachel Mooren and the

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Speaker 1: facts surrounding her murder fade, this is exactly what a

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Speaker 1: defense attorney wants when the time comes for this to

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Speaker 1: go to trial. Nobody remembers, nobody recalls what happened to

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Speaker 1: Rachel Lauren just simply out for a walk. I remember,

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Speaker 1: Let me jog your memory. Take a listen to Sheriff

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Galler.

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Speaker 2: It probably eleven twenty three last evening, our deputies responded

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Speaker 2: to a report of a mission person. It was reported

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Speaker 2: by the individual's boyfriend that Rachel Morien, who's aged thirty seven,

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Speaker 2: headed out from her home on Old Emerton Road around

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Speaker 2: six pm to go to the Mompat Trail. Once she

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Speaker 2: had not returned as and when expected, the family was

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Speaker 2: obviously concerned. Initial information from the boyfriend. Again, the caller

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Speaker 2: who reported her mission indicated her car was at the

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Speaker 2: lot at the trailhead here on Williams Street. Behind like

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Speaker 2: we're independent Brewery is the people that are familiar with

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Speaker 2: bell Air. The car was there, but she was not

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Speaker 2: as bel Air.

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Speaker 1: Maryland with me an incredible panel, a brain Trust renowned psychologist,

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Speaker 1: a death investigator, an investigative reporter, an FBI profile and author,

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Speaker 1: a high profile lawyer. But first I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: to a very special guest. I've thought about her, I've

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Speaker 1: wondered about her, I've prayed for her, and now I

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Speaker 1: get to speak to her. Rachel Mourn's mother, Patty ms Morn.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it. I appreciate

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Speaker 3: you keeping Rachel's story a life. I think that's the

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Speaker 3: most important thing right now.

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Speaker 1: I do too. And with you is high profile lawyer,

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Speaker 1: the Morn family, attorney from Rice and Martha and sous

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Speaker 1: at Rice Law MD dot com, Randolph Rice, if I

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Speaker 1: may call you Randy, Randy, just very quickly. Isn't it

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Speaker 1: true that the longer a case is delayed, the worst

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Speaker 1: it is for the victim's family and the prosecutor.

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Speaker 4: Certainly, I mean we've obviously seen that with Patty and

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Speaker 4: the family that they've had to go through, as you

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Speaker 4: said at the lead, eight months of just agony and

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Speaker 4: desperation that they have.

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Speaker 5: Not caught this man. They know who he is, we

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Speaker 5: know who he is.

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Speaker 4: We've got DNA, we've got a sketch, we've got a video,

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Speaker 4: but we just don't have a name. And that's what

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Speaker 4: we need. That's what Patty and the family needs right now,

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Speaker 4: is a name. And this is what we needed to happen.

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Speaker 4: We need more people to see these sketches, we need

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Speaker 4: more people to see the video. Hopefully somebody comes forward

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Speaker 4: and says, I know who that guy is right there.

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Speaker 5: I know who he is. That's so and so.

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Speaker 1: Guys, for those of you that may have forgotten the

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Speaker 1: facts of the case, listen again to Sheriff Jeffrey Galler.

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Speaker 2: Well, it was all of our hope, certainly mine and

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Speaker 2: everyone standing up here with me and the men and

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Speaker 2: women of our office and all of our citizens, that

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Speaker 2: Rachel will be found safe. At about one oh seven PM,

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Speaker 2: a citizen called nine one one to report a female's

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Speaker 2: body had been located off the trail. At that time,

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Speaker 2: it was obvious that this.

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Speaker 5: Person was deceased.

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Speaker 2: Uh the investigation was went from a missing person investigation

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Speaker 2: to a homicide investigation.

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Speaker 1: Miss Moran, Rachel's mother or speaking out today, Miss Moran,

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Speaker 1: When did you learn that Rachel was missing?

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Speaker 3: It was actually I will, and this is going to

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Speaker 3: sound kind of weird, but I woke up the morning

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Speaker 3: that they found her body and we were still in

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Speaker 3: Kentucky because I had a grand baby that had passed

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Speaker 3: away and we had just did a funeral for her.

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Speaker 3: And I woke up and I said, I just have

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Speaker 3: a really bad feeling that something's happened to Rachel. And

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Speaker 3: my oldest daughter, who wrote down with me, she checked

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Speaker 3: on Facebook and she messaged other family members and it

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Speaker 3: was while she was on Facebook that she found out

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Speaker 3: that Rachel had been reported missing. Nobody contacted us before then,

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Speaker 3: and then it wasn't until after they found Rachel's body

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Speaker 3: that the sheriff Department used one of my children's phone

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Speaker 3: to contact me to let us know that they had

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Speaker 3: found her body. So we kind of didn't know until

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Speaker 3: after the fact she'd been missing an already.

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Speaker 1: Past Who told you that Rachel was missing and who

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Speaker 1: told you that her body had been found?

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Speaker 3: My oldest daughter saw the post on Facebook on the

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Speaker 3: Sheriff's web page. And then it was the investigating detective

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Speaker 3: at the time that had called using my son's phone

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Speaker 3: to let us know that they had found her and

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Speaker 3: they believed that it was her and that she had

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Speaker 3: passed away. Well, they found her body.

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Speaker 1: And really all of this was instigated because you had

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Speaker 1: a quote bad feeling, Miss Morn. I've got to tell

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Speaker 1: you something. When my fiancee was murdered, I had just

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Speaker 1: walked out of a statistics exam and I was on

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Speaker 1: my way to my job in the library, and I

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Speaker 1: got a message to call Keith's family, and I knew

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Speaker 1: right then that Keith was dead. That minute when they

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Speaker 1: picked up the phone and said hello, I said, it

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Speaker 1: is Keith gone. I knew. I don't know how that happens,

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Speaker 1: Miss Morn. I don't know how that happens, but it happened.

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Speaker 1: What was the feeling that you had. What did it

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Speaker 1: feel like.

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Speaker 3: When I woke up? It felt like it felt like

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Speaker 3: a shadow. It also felt like like profound like sadness, emptiness,

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Speaker 3: like I just knew that there was something that I

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Speaker 3: think it's just mother's intuition. I just knew there was

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Speaker 3: something that wasn't right. That there was something terribly wrong,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't know what it was. And when my

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Speaker 3: kids were younger, teenagers, and they would, you know, go

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Speaker 3: spend time with their friends, I would know if they were,

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Speaker 3: you know, being honest or not. It's like a mother

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Speaker 3: just knows her children. I can't explain it. I don't

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Speaker 3: profess to be psychic or anything. I just think it's

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Speaker 3: because we are close knit family. And so my oldest daughter,

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Speaker 3: knowing that mom's intuition is usually correct, she went looking,

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Speaker 3: contacting her brother's and to see, you know, if everybody

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Speaker 3: was okay, and that's how we found out.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember what you were doing when you were

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Speaker 1: told that Rachel's body had been found.

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Speaker 3: I was at my son's house. We were getting ready

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Speaker 3: to come back to Maryland. But we weren't sure what

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Speaker 3: was happening with Rachel. So I wanted to hurry up

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Speaker 3: and come back so we could be part of looking

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Speaker 3: for her. And so we had packed up our things,

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Speaker 3: we were getting ready to pack up the car when

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Speaker 3: we got the phone call that she was missing. I

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Speaker 3: think we were like maybe a half mile, not a

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Speaker 3: half mile, like a half hour or so down the

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Speaker 3: road from my son's house. Heading back, and my daughter

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Speaker 3: that had traveled with me, my oldest daughter, She said, Mom,

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Speaker 3: you need to turn around and go home because you're

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Speaker 3: not going to be able to drive the ten hours home.

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Speaker 3: And so, you know, I thought it was okay, but

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Speaker 3: my son and my daughter insisted that I stay a

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Speaker 3: couple of days to bring my emotions and things under

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Speaker 3: control so I could drive the ten hours back to Maryland.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Miss Moran. What was your

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Speaker 1: initial reaction. I know, when I was told that Keith

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Speaker 1: was dead, I didn't believe it. I immediately thought, wait,

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Speaker 1: this is wrong. There's been some type of an accident,

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Speaker 1: and if I can just get there fast enough, I

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Speaker 1: can get him to a hospital and I can fix it.

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Speaker 1: I can fix this. I couldn't take it in until

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Speaker 1: I saw someone right Bernstein Funeral Home, and that's really

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Speaker 1: when I took in that Keith was actually dead. What

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Speaker 1: was your initial reaction did you believe it? Did you

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Speaker 1: think there had been a mistake.

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Speaker 3: I when I first heard that she was missing, I

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Speaker 3: had hoped that we would find her. When they said

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Speaker 3: they found her body, that was probably you know that

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Speaker 3: you know that it's true because somebody authority is telling

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Speaker 3: you it, but at the same time, you don't want

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Speaker 3: to accept it it's true, like like I.

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Speaker 6: Can't, it's too painful to believe that it's true. And

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Speaker 6: it wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Actually until we unveiled her headstone that for the first

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Speaker 3: time it felt like Rachel is really cold.

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Speaker 5: And sorry.

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Speaker 7: I know that she's gone, but it made it like concrete,

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Speaker 7: like she's she's really.

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Speaker 3: Gone and that I need to.

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Speaker 6: I'm trying to figure out how do I disconnect being

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Speaker 6: a mom from this process of grieving, because I still

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Speaker 6: feel connected to her.

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Speaker 7: So I'm I don't know how I'm supposed to feel.

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Speaker 7: So I apologize for crying. Sorry, it's because it's so

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Speaker 7: very sad to me. I loved Rachel very much. I

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Speaker 7: love all my children, so it's it's just it's been

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Speaker 7: just like very hard. It's been very hard for all

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Speaker 7: of us.

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Speaker 3: Actually.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, joining me is Rachel Moren's mother speaking out before

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Speaker 1: we delve into the facts and what we know right

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Speaker 1: now about catching the killer. When we were on break,

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Speaker 1: Miss Moran, you said, I can't believe it's been eight

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Speaker 1: months and it's not getting any better.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you would, Well, I suppose I would think it's

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Speaker 3: been eight months, but the emotion is still so strong,

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Speaker 3: and like the grief and the sorrows, it's very it's

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Speaker 3: still very intense. It's just so sad, like she should never.

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Speaker 1: Have died, Like she didn't do anything wrong.

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Speaker 3: She was just walking the trail, which she does all

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Speaker 3: the time. They've been doing it since they were little

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Speaker 3: kids and we moved here to Maryland. That was one

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Speaker 3: of the things we did after supper is we would

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Speaker 3: go as a family walk the trail. The boys would

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Speaker 3: run into the woods look for bubs and frogs and

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Speaker 3: that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: You mean this trail or a trail near your family home,

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Speaker 1: this trail.

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Speaker 3: We lived a block from this trail for over ten years.

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Speaker 1: So this was her childhood home and childhood area. So

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Speaker 1: she had walked this trail many, many times. And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot too what you just said, her familiarity with

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Speaker 1: the trail, feeling at home or at ease there to

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Speaker 1: the point where I'm sure no fault of her own.

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Speaker 1: I do it too. She fell at ease and probably

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Speaker 1: let her defenses down like we all do when we're

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Speaker 1: at home or we're doing something we do every day.

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Speaker 1: That's normal. Karen Stark, Can you weigh in on with me,

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Speaker 1: as Karen Start, renounced psychologist, TV radio trauma expert at

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Speaker 1: car start dot com, careen with a C in case

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Speaker 1: you're trying to reach her. Can you, and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you can. I'm just the JD. You're the shrink. Can

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Speaker 1: you assign a word or words to what missus Warren

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Speaker 1: is going through?

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Speaker 8: This is so typical of grief, Nancy. I mean I

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Speaker 8: recognized it right away. I'm sure you did too. That

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Speaker 8: you just can't accept that the person has died, and

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Speaker 8: it takes a very long time for that to sink in.

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Speaker 8: You're also talking about a mother, that connection, that mother's

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Speaker 8: instinct that she talked about, and that will never go away,

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Speaker 8: that feeling of being connected, but having to accept it.

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Speaker 1: It takes a.

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Speaker 8: Long time till we're able to accept the loss of

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Speaker 8: a child who should never die. Before you, it's not

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Speaker 8: the way it's supposed to work.

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Speaker 1: What do we know about the killer and where do

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Speaker 1: we get that information from the crime scene? Listen?

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Speaker 9: Since the body of Rachel Marinn was discovered in a

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Speaker 9: drainage tunnel not far from the main entrance of the

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Speaker 9: MA and Paw Trail, Michael Gabriziski has spoken out to

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Speaker 9: the media about what he and his stepdaughter found or witnessed.

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Speaker 9: The following information has been reported as fact by Michael Gabrazski.

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Speaker 9: Claim number one, gabriziski stepdaughter Cecilia discovered the body of

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Speaker 9: Rachel Marin in a drainage tunnel. Claim number two. Rachel

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Speaker 9: Marin was lying on her back, fully naked and she

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Speaker 9: had brutal head trauma. It looked like her head had

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Speaker 9: been smashed with a rock. Claim number three. There was

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Speaker 9: a fifteen to twenty foot blood trail, so it looked

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Speaker 9: like she had been beaten and dragged into position. Claim

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Speaker 9: number four. The right side of her face was gone,

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Speaker 9: and claim number five, it looked like the killer was

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Speaker 9: trying to erase her identity.

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Speaker 1: Again. Joining me an all star panel to make sense

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Speaker 1: of what we know right now. But I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to say to miss Moran. Miss Moran, I was told

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Speaker 1: nothing about my fiance, says murderers the case surrounding it.

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Speaker 1: Before trial, I was called in as a witness, although

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Speaker 1: I did not see the murder occur, and I remember

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Speaker 1: coming off the witness stand and seeing case bloody shirt

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Speaker 1: on the State's Council table, and it literally stopped me

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Speaker 1: in my tracks. I was not prepared for that, and

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Speaker 1: I want to apologize to you for going through these facts.

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Speaker 1: And the reason I'm doing it, missus Moran, is because

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Speaker 1: these facts are going to help catch her killer. And

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Speaker 1: only these facts are going to help catch her killer.

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Speaker 1: I hate to rehash them with you there, but I

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Speaker 1: want your input. You are her mother. You know more

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Speaker 1: about her and this trail than anybody on this panel

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Speaker 1: or anybody out there period. So please you, along with

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Speaker 1: your attorney ran off Rice, please jump in whenever you

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Speaker 1: hear something that's wrong or you want to comment on.

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Speaker 1: I want to go now to another special guest joining us,

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Speaker 1: Tim Papa, former FBI profiler, supervisory special Agent. And listen

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Speaker 1: to this founder and behavioral content creator of Storytellers on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: He has walked the trail, he has examined the crime

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Speaker 1: scene from the FBI. Tim Papa, Tim helped me out

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Speaker 1: what is taking so long. We've got the guy's DNA,

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Speaker 1: We've got what I believe to be an excellent composite,

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Speaker 1: and you know composites can go in a lot of

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Speaker 1: different directions. Example, have you seen those sketch artists drawings

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Speaker 1: of what goes on in federal court where they're on

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Speaker 1: our cameras. Nobody looks like those sketches at all. I've

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Speaker 1: worked on a lot of composites, including composites post mortem

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Speaker 1: of victims when I needed somebody to identify a victim.

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Speaker 1: What I'm telling you is, I think this is a

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Speaker 1: pretty good composite. So that said, Tim Pappa, help me.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 10: I mean, the timing is frustrating. But if you have

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Speaker 10: an inexperienced killer, which is what I think we have here,

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Speaker 10: it's true that they might make more mistakes, but it

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Speaker 10: also is likely true that they're not going to have

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Speaker 10: a pattern because they're inexperienced. So they might be learning,

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Speaker 10: but they also might be becoming more reckless in some

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Speaker 10: of their behaviors.

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Speaker 1: Rachel was murdered in brutal fashion in Maryland, bel Air, Maryland.

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Speaker 1: This guy's DNA pops up from a crime scene in

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Speaker 1: LA That's where we're getting a lot of this composite.

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Speaker 1: So he attacks a group of people, a group inside

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Speaker 1: this home. He's brazen. I believe he's sex assault at

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Speaker 1: someone in there. A child came to the door of

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Speaker 1: the room and started screaming and woke everybody up. This

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Speaker 1: guy is brazen. Now how does this guy pop up

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Speaker 1: in bel Air, Maryland and LA Two violent crime scenes,

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Speaker 1: two sex assaults, one murder, and we don't have him yet.

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Speaker 1: So Tim, that's what I'm saying. I think this is

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Speaker 1: a really good composite based on what I can see.

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 10: You know, Rachel may have just been a target of opportunity,

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Speaker 10: but he would have been familiar enough with that trail

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Speaker 10: to know where he might have some cover in timing

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Speaker 10: to attack someone. I think this comes down in relationships

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Speaker 10: that there are still people who are not coming forward

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Speaker 10: who have information.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, hey, I can figure that out, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not an FBI profile or Tim pap. I need a

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Speaker 1: little bit more from you about that. But I also

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Speaker 1: want to say you initially said you believe he's an

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Speaker 1: experienced killer. I know he laid in wait and Joe

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Speaker 1: Scott's going to jump in on that. Joe Scott Morning

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Speaker 1: Morgan because there's a curve, and Miss Moran and Randolph

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Speaker 1: Rice jump in if you know better. But there's apparently

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Speaker 1: a curve in that trail enough to where she could

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Speaker 1: be walking forward and can't see him like a predator,

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Speaker 1: like a wolf, waiting around the curve. And also there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of foliage at the time Rachel was attacked,

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Speaker 1: which could have obscured her vision. He was waiting like

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Speaker 1: a hyena for her to come along. From his vantage point,

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Speaker 1: he could see her coming, but she couldn't see him.

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Speaker 5: Laid a couple of groundworks, so that may help out

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Speaker 5: a little bit.

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Speaker 4: So the video that you saw that was in March

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Speaker 4: of March in Los Angeles of a doorbell camera that

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Speaker 4: captured that individual leaving the home. The belief is that

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Speaker 4: he did not enter the home to that door, so

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Speaker 4: that's why we don't have that. The police don't have

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Speaker 4: that March of twenty twenty three, that video is taken.

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Speaker 4: Then fast forward to August of twenty twenty three when

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Speaker 4: Rachel's body is found on the Man Paul Trail, which

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Speaker 4: anybody from Maryland in that area of Maryland, which is

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Speaker 4: the northeast part of Maryland, will tell you that the

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Speaker 4: Man Paul Trail is not a trail that.

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Speaker 5: Is easy to find.

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Speaker 4: It is off the beaten path, it is not near

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Speaker 4: the main drag. You have to really know the area

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Speaker 4: or get familiar a little bit with the area or

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Speaker 4: have some connection to the area to be able to

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Speaker 4: find the Man Paul Trail. It's not off to Interstate

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Speaker 4: ninety five, which is a very popular interstate that runs

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Speaker 4: up the east coast of the United States, runs through

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Speaker 4: Harford County, but even the Man Paul Trail is probably

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Speaker 4: a good ten to fifteen miles from I ninety five,

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Speaker 4: So this is not a trail where you would just

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Speaker 4: hop off a major interstate and find this trail.

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Speaker 5: So he has to have some knowledge, and.

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Speaker 4: That's sort of one of the reasons why we did

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Speaker 4: what we did early on the investigation of our digital

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Speaker 4: campaign to the Hispanic community, the flyers that we presented

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Speaker 4: in both English and Spanish to those areas, because we

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Speaker 4: believed and we still believe, as Tim indicated that he

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Speaker 4: has a connection to this area, as we believe he

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Speaker 4: also has a connection to that neighborhood in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 4: which is just south of downtown. So hitting those areas

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Speaker 4: hoping that somebody will know him, recognize him, and be

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Speaker 4: able to identify him as what we've been trying to do.

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Speaker 4: We've even got now. Patty can tell you that she

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Speaker 4: went on camera last week and we shot a series

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Speaker 4: of television commercials that we're going to start in the

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Speaker 4: next couple of weeks, digital media, hitting specific zip codes

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Speaker 4: in Los Angeles as well as Hartford County as well

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Speaker 4: as the border communities, because we know this is a

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Speaker 4: Hispanic male who there's a possibility that somebody on the

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Speaker 4: border communities may know who he is as well, and

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Speaker 4: we're going to hit those with social media campaigns to

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Speaker 4: where somebody can see those pictures.

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Speaker 1: Rachel Morin's mother is not able to move forward. She's stuck,

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Speaker 1: and now she's spending her own money, her own savings,

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Speaker 1: to create commercials, create flyers to help catch her daughter's killer.

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Speaker 1: Won't you help us? Joining me is Rachel's mother, Patty

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Speaker 1: Moorean and the family lawyer joining us, Randolph. You have

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Speaker 1: a flyer, Randolph Rise High Profile, a lawyer that is

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Speaker 1: representing the morn family.

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Speaker 5: Sure.

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Speaker 4: So this is the two sided flyer that we sent

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Speaker 4: to ten thousand homes in and around the crime scene.

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Speaker 5: In Los Angeles County.

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Speaker 4: We were able to identify the home based on Google Images.

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Speaker 4: If you take it to look at the video, there's

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Speaker 4: a very unique ridgeline across the street.

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Speaker 5: We were able to search those.

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Speaker 4: Neighborhoods find the home and then pinpoint that and drop

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Speaker 4: a dot and hit ten thousand homes around that through

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Speaker 4: the use of what's called EDDM and I don't mean

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Speaker 4: to get the weeds here, but this is a program

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Speaker 4: that most people won't realize that the postal Service developed

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Speaker 4: to find lost dogs, but we used it to make

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Speaker 4: everybody aware of this man. At the time, we didn't

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Speaker 4: have the sketch, so we were using the video that

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Speaker 4: you see there. We took still shots from that and

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Speaker 4: put it on a reward flyer and delivered to every

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Speaker 4: single home in the neighborhood around that crime seeing Los

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Speaker 4: Angeles at the end of twenty twenty three. In addition

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Speaker 4: to that, we took this flyer, we sent packs of

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Speaker 4: these to every single high school in the area around here,

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Speaker 4: because that suspect is identified as a fairly young man,

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Speaker 4: probably in his mid early twenties, and believing that maybe

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Speaker 4: he went to high school that area. That flyer went

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Speaker 4: to every single high school principal and asked to distribute

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Speaker 4: to their staff, to their employees, to the students, to

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Speaker 4: themselves to try to identify who this man is. And

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Speaker 4: then this was also coupled with a digital campaign that

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Speaker 4: we ran in Spanish to all these Spanish speaking websites

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Speaker 4: in Harford County as well as Los Angeles County at

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Speaker 4: the end of last year. So we're trying every possible

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Speaker 4: way to get these images in front of anybody who

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Speaker 4: can identify just a name. So all we need is

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Speaker 4: a name, and we've put in ten thousand dollars and

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Speaker 4: I got another ten thousand dollars in the rewards now

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Speaker 4: up to thirty five thousand. And we've said to everybody

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Speaker 4: that's listened, tell us a name. You get thirty five

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars.

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Speaker 5: That's all we need.

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Speaker 1: No questions, asked one name, two words for thirty five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. Ms Mauran, I got to tell you got

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Speaker 1: some lawyer right there. Those techniques that you're employing are phenomenal,

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Speaker 1: especially the use of EDDM, which I believe stands for

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Speaker 1: every Door Direct Mail and that is used by the

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Speaker 1: Postal service guys. In addition to Miss Moran, Patty Moran

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Speaker 1: who is Rachel Morin's mom, and the family lawyer Randolph

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Speaker 1: Rice joining me, FBI profiler Tim Pappa, Karen Stark, renowned

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Speaker 1: psychologist Alexis Terres joining us Crime online dot Com invest

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Speaker 1: heated reporter and death investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensicks,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: and star of a hit series Body Bags with Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, I want to talk about what

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00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: this crime scene means. You heard earlier Tim Pappa from

439
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: the FBI formerly FBI say an experienced killer way in.

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00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: I want to hear your analysis.

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00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 11: What's striking to me, Nancy, is that the individual would

442
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 11: be this bold even though this trail is in an

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00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 11: isolated area, as was pointed out by Tim Off of

444
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 11: I ninety five some fifteen miles. However, this is a

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00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 11: location this individual felt comfortable enough in to perpetrate such

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00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 11: a heinous crime, and he's going to be very familiar

447
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 11: with these specific locations within there, these blind spot you

448
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 11: had mentioned, the curves, and certainly this ditch. I'm fascinated

449
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 11: by this that Rachel's remains would be contained in this location.

450
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 11: It would be of interest here to think about what

451
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 11: he could have done as far as laying in weight.

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00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 11: Did they search that area thoroughly? Were there any tie

453
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 11: backs to him, had been camping in the area, had

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00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 11: he been seen around that immediate area. And one final

455
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 11: thing here, you've got a vicious beast on your hands here.

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00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 11: He needs to be found sooner than later, because if

457
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 11: he is this bold, and if we are to believe

458
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,959
Speaker 11: what we have heard this far reported in the news,

459
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 11: the level of violence involved in this will be into

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00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 11: anybody that would cross his path. This guy's very, very dangerous.

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00:29:48,680 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 1: Nancy Crime Stories, with Nancy Grace joining me, Crime online

462
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Alexis Tereschuk. Alexis, what can you

463
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: tell us regarding the latest in the search for Rachel's killer.

464
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds to me like the attorney for

465
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: the family, Randolph Rice, is doing the yeoman's shared work.

466
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 3: He is, he's doing what the police should have done.

467
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: They have been blanketing the area.

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00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: Here's the thing.

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Speaker 3: I am from Los Angeles.

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00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 12: The coverage has been minimal since the crime took place,

471
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 12: since everybody saw the video first minut all of the

472
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 12: news stations ran and everybody was aware of it. But

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00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 12: there have been no sightings of him either in Maryland

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00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 12: or Los Angeles. And as the sheriff said, the police

475
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 12: are concerned that he may have fled the country, could

476
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 12: have gone south to Mexico, he could have gone anywhere.

477
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 12: They don't have a name, so he's not on a

478
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 12: no fly list. They're not looking for him at the border.

479
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 12: The only thing they have is his DNA and luckily

480
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 12: it has just been shared nationwide, so it went from Maryland.

481
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 12: It was matched in Los angel Peak commits a crime

482
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 12: anywhere else? Hopefully not that will show up as well

483
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 12: because everything is interconnected.

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00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: Joining me guys an all star panel and we're trying

485
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: to make sense of the facts that we know right now.

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00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: To Patty More and this is Rachel's mother. Are you

487
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: in regular contact with Ellie law enforcement'.

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00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: Harford County Sheriff.

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00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: Yes, What if anything are they telling you? Do they

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00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: update you on a weekly basis.

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00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: They do not update me on a weekly basis. What

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00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 3: they have told me in the past is they'll release

493
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 3: information to me just before it's released to the public.

494
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: But for the most part, they're keeping everything very close

495
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: to the chest, and they say is for the integrity

496
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 3: of the investigation, and so I know as much as you.

497
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: Know, so you do get some details prior to them

498
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: being released. What are they telling you, Patty.

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00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,479
Speaker 3: The things that they have I've told me is before

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00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 3: they released the video to the public, they showed us

501
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 3: the video to see if we recognized the person, and

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00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: then the next day they released it to the public,

503
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: and then they showed us the sketch of the suspect

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00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: before they released that to the public. Other than that,

505
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 3: there really isn't anything else that like, I didn't know

506
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 3: about the hat or any of those things until the

507
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 3: sheriff did his podcast where he released all that information.

508
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 3: That was stuff that wasn't told to me beforehand.

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00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: Mis Moran, have you gone back to the spot where

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00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: Rachel's body was found?

511
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 3: Sadly, yes, and it was just recently I couldn't after

512
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 3: she passed. We did, and sorry for the poor English.

513
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: I have a hard time thinking because I'm so emotional.

514
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: We did a walk, a walk to remember Rachel where

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00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: there were about two thousand people that had come out

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00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 3: for this walk, and it was in August. Then we

517
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:17,239
Speaker 3: did a celebration of life service for her and it

518
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: was broadcast on YouTube so those that couldn't be there

519
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 3: could view it and see video clips of her growing up.

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00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: And then.

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00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: Since that Walk of life, I haven't been able to

522
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: bring myself to go on the trail just because it

523
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: just felt like so fresh, like the death just happened,

524
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 3: like it was so fresh. I couldn't bring myself to

525
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 3: go near it. But one of my sons, wanting to

526
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 3: help me to move forward, said, Mom, it might help

527
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 3: you if you just walk and I'll explain thing as

528
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: we go along the trail. Just thinks that he thought

529
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 3: it's speculation, but the things that he thought. But then

530
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 3: he brought me to the place where they did find

531
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: her body.

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00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 13: And.

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00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: It was.

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00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 3: It was very it was very hard, but it was

535
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 3: also one of those like signposts that makes it final

536
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: that she really was in this place at that time,

537
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 3: and so it's kind of like a timestamp. But she's

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00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 3: not there anymore. And I know that since then people

539
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 3: have actually gone to that place, and I know that

540
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 3: there's like graffiti that people are leaving behind now and

541
00:34:52,360 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: they're like messages to Rachel. But so I walked trail.

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00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,760
Speaker 3: I haven't been since back since then though with.

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00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: Me is Rachel's mom, Patty Moorean, Miss Moran. Rachel wasn't

544
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: just killed, she was brutalized, but you have reason to

545
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: believe she felt safe on the mon Pot Trail. Why.

546
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: Yes, the town of bel Air is a small town.

547
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 3: We have a community college that's just a little bit

548
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: of waste from the town, and we have lived here

549
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 3: for over twenty years. Everybody it's a small family trail.

550
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 3: Everybody in the town walks, runs, bikes this trail. We've

551
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: been doing it for over twenty years. Nothing like this

552
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: has happened in our town. Like this, people feel safe.

553
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: Everyone knows each other. You know, you're on the trail

554
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 3: so often that people say hi to each other. It

555
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 3: was a very safe place, so she had no reason

556
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 3: to believe that she was in harm's way.

557
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 5: And it's just to use some perspective.

558
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 4: Harford County maybe has five homicides a year, and they're

559
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 4: typically either drug related or domestically violent where there's you know,

560
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 4: maybe there was something growing. Very rarely do they have

561
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 4: these random attacks, and really most people can't have recent

562
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 4: memory of anything like this happening in such a small,

563
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 4: close knit, almost rural community.

564
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: Ms. Moran, you stated that as part of that walk,

565
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: you saw where Rachel's body was found. You know, I've

566
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: never gone back to where Keith was murdered. It took

567
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: me so long to get out of that depression. I

568
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: don't want to retrigger it, especially now that I have

569
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: children to raise. What went through your mind when you

570
00:36:55,080 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: saw that spot.

571
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 3: It's it's like I know that it's a fact, but

572
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 3: at the same time, it's like I can't believe that

573
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 3: it's real or true. It's I can't explain it's it's

574
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 3: almost like it's surreal. It's like you have to separate

575
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 3: this is a fact from your emotions. And so in

576
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 3: a part of my brain is like, yes, this is

577
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 3: a fact, but I still can't. I'm still having a

578
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: hard time just thinking that she's gone, Like I just

579
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 3: I can't comprehend. I know that it's true, but my

580
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 3: heart won't let me comprehend it.

581
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 13: And so that's why I avoided the avoided the trail,

582
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 13: and avoided the tunnel because I wanted to avoid the pain.

583
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 13: So yeah, so in one sense, it did help to

584
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 13: go there and to see it, because then it's like

585
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 13: your emotions aren't running all over the place. You have

586
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 13: some fact to settle on. But at the same time,

587
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 13: it's it's very hard because then you have to accept

588
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 13: the fact is true. I have to accept the fact

589
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,839
Speaker 13: that she has passed away that she's been killed, and

590
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,959
Speaker 13: so it's it's been hard, like I don't know how

591
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 13: I'm supposed to I don't know how I'm supposed to be.

592
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Won't you help us help Rachel's mother? Just two words?

593
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: Two words for thirty five thousand dollars four one zero

594
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,359
Speaker 1: eight three six seven seven eight eight repeat four one

595
00:38:54,480 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: zero eight three six seven, seven eight eight, Just two words.

596
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: We stop and remember American hero police officer Matthew Rugie,

597
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 1: just twenty seven years old. Matthew Rugie shot down into

598
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: line of duty along with officer Paul Elmstrand and firefighter

599
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: Adam Finseth, responding to a domestic Matthew always dreamed of

600
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 1: being a police officer. He loved helping people in need,

601
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: leaving behind his parents, Sean and Christy, and his family.

602
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: We remember American hero police officer Matthew Rugie. I want

603
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: to thank our guests, especially missus morn, but most of

604
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: all to you for being with us tonight and every

605
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 1: night in caring about the people and the cases that

606
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: touch our lives. Nancy Grace signing off, good night friend,