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Speaker 1: You're about to listen to one of our favorite episodes

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Speaker 1: of trust Me from October sixth, twenty twenty, where we

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Speaker 1: interview my mom about our experience is believing in a

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Speaker 1: self proclaimed mormonnprophet. If you're new here, follow the show

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Speaker 1: so you don't miss the July thirtieth return of Trust

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Speaker 1: Me on the Exactly Right Network.

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Speaker 2: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 2: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 1: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 1: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 2: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 2: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 1: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight, or.

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Speaker 2: Shoot us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Trust Me, trust.

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Speaker 3: Me, trust Me.

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Speaker 2: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 4: I've never lived.

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Speaker 3: To you, I've never had a live.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that one person has all the answers?

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Speaker 1: Don't Welcome to trust Me. No, Welcome to trust Me.

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Speaker 1: The podcast about cults, extreme belief and abusive power from

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Speaker 1: two gals who've actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc

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Speaker 1: and I'm megana and we both grew up believing in

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Speaker 1: cult leaders of some kind. Today we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: to my mother. We were going to talk about our

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Speaker 1: moment more men offshoot cult leader we both believed in,

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Speaker 1: who claimed that he was the one true prophet of course,

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Speaker 1: translating the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon, and

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Speaker 1: how we were chosen by God to help him in

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Speaker 1: the last days. We will also talk about how he

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Speaker 1: separated us from each other and how my mother was

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Speaker 1: sex trafficked. Trigger warning, there will be some descriptions of

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Speaker 1: sex trafficking, So that's not something you want to hear about,

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Speaker 1: skip this one.

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Speaker 4: And if it is something you want to hear about,

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Speaker 4: seek help.

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Speaker 1: Just kidding, Megan, why don't you tell us about your

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Speaker 1: cult so people know who they're dealing with here? Oh?

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Speaker 2: You know, well, A my cult super intense. Couldn't cut

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Speaker 2: my hair. Oh, couldn't wear pants. I got to go

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Speaker 2: to school and really long jean skirts. We couldn't watch

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Speaker 2: TV or movies. If I wanted to go to a movie,

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Speaker 2: my parents would say, is that where you want to

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Speaker 2: be when.

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Speaker 4: Jesus comes back to the earth?

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Speaker 1: Wow? And I'd be like, ugh No, So I'd like

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Speaker 1: sit at.

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Speaker 2: Home and my friends would be at the movie and

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Speaker 2: I'd be like God, I hope Jesus comes back to

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Speaker 2: the earth and they'll go to have whoy that is

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Speaker 2: so bad and jealous. That's kind of mean, right, but whatever,

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Speaker 2: It's just I was seven. That was kind of my cult.

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Speaker 2: What's your cult?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: My cult is interesting because my cult is basically well,

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Speaker 1: it was a three person cult, but it has grown since.

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Speaker 1: And we will talk more about that later because our

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Speaker 1: guest today is my mother, who was the reason that

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Speaker 1: I believed in this cult leader. She was not the reason,

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Speaker 1: but together we believed in this cult leader. And it

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Speaker 1: was an offshoot of Mormonism. How big is it now?

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Speaker 3: Dozens?

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Speaker 1: I have heard their buying up property in an apartment

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Speaker 1: complex in Utah, and I think it's dozens. That's how

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Speaker 1: it starts.

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Speaker 2: That's how scientology like just started by buying like a

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Speaker 2: storage unit. I'm making that up, but the properties, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, like you just start small and then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden you own like a city.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You make people give you their money, right, and

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Speaker 1: then you can buy as much as you want because

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Speaker 1: you have so much of other people's money. So what

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Speaker 1: is normal Mormonism? Like, great question, Normal Mormonism, Well, it's Christianity,

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Speaker 1: but there's an extra book called the Book of Mormon,

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Speaker 1: and basically, you know, they believe in this guy who

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Speaker 1: translated scriptures from an angel in the eighteen hundreds and

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Speaker 1: then the true Church was finally brought back to earth.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like you have to get married in

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Speaker 1: the Temple, and in order to go to the temple,

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Speaker 1: you have to be temple worthy. So you tell your

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Speaker 1: bishop everything, kind of like Catholic confession a little bit. Oh,

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Speaker 1: like they do baptism for the dead, Oh, in the Temple.

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Speaker 1: You start doing that from age twelve, I think, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you go and get baptized and they have the names

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Speaker 1: of a bunch of people who are dead, and you're

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Speaker 1: basically like baptizings. Oh so they can choose to accept

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Speaker 1: it or not. That's insane. I mean, you know, sex

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Speaker 1: is really a really bad sin. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: guilt in the religion because of that. But otherwise it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of really nice people who just

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Speaker 1: believe in this thing. Okay, okay, So we are going

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Speaker 1: to be doing a weekly segment on this podcast where

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Speaker 1: we talk about the cultiest thing that happened to us

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Speaker 1: each week and we'll talk about what we experienced or

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Speaker 1: participated in that just felt a little bit extreme or

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Speaker 1: a little culty. But this week in particular, there just

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Speaker 1: happens to be some really culty stuff happening in the

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Speaker 1: news cult news.

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Speaker 2: This week we have some pretty interesting cult news because

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Speaker 2: we have Small Belt, Small Bell.

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Speaker 1: Small Bill.

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Speaker 2: I love that show, Small Bell actress Alison Mac Alison Mack.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's in some serious trouble. She's pleading guilty to

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Speaker 1: what are the charger.

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Speaker 2: Like, racketeering, sex trafficking, sex trafficking, child pornography.

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Speaker 1: I still haven't wrapped my head around right that was

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Speaker 1: That was Keith though, the leader, her leader.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if anyone doesn't know this is a sex If

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Speaker 1: you don't know, I don't know what you're doing and

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Speaker 1: why you're listening to this podcast. There's a whole HBO

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Speaker 1: docuseriies about it called The Vow. It is not out

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Speaker 1: at the time of recording, so we're just going off

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Speaker 1: news articles right now. But basically, it was a sex

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Speaker 1: cult and Allbany, New York in which they were branding

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Speaker 1: women's bodies. And we'll probably do an entire episode on

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Speaker 1: it later on, but it was headed by a man

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Speaker 1: named Keith Ranieri, who incidentally I knew growing up, and

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Speaker 1: so did my mother, And we can talk more about

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Speaker 1: that later. What is he alluring in some way? Is

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Speaker 1: he charismatic?

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Speaker 2: Because I've been looking at pictures of him all day

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Speaker 2: wondering how he has all these women being his sex

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Speaker 2: slaves and they're all like like heiresses and they're super

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Speaker 2: rich and ye're beautiful.

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Speaker 1: Why he's such a weirdo? I was probably nine, so

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Speaker 1: I don't know, or ten or eleven, but I really

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Speaker 1: liked him up time. He taught me the word word thing.

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Speaker 1: That was one. One smart fellow he felt smart. Two

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Speaker 1: smart fellaws, they both felt smart, and it would checked

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Speaker 1: me into saying smelled smelled part oh wow. This is

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Speaker 1: my memory of Keith Ranieri, the sex cult leader.

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Speaker 2: If we like, if we like a guy, should we

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Speaker 2: just determine that he's probably a cult leader if we

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Speaker 2: think he's nice.

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Speaker 1: If anyone thinks he's charming or charismatic in any way,

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Speaker 1: he's definitely leader, minimum sociopath, probably a cult leader.

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Speaker 2: If you're talking to a man who you find charming,

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Speaker 2: scream cult leader Mace Hammon and run.

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Speaker 1: Only like uncharismatic nerds for me who don't know how

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Speaker 1: to talk to people. She pleaded guilty, pled pleaded guiltyling

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Speaker 1: in court, sobbing in court, and some people think that

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Speaker 1: she was faking it.

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Speaker 4: I mean, she's an actress on Small.

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Speaker 1: Bill, my favorite show. I personally, I have differing beliefs

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Speaker 1: on this because she was under the spell of this

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Speaker 1: very charming, charismatic man.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna take the opposite side of you. I

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Speaker 2: think I'm totally anti her. I think she's so sick

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Speaker 2: in the head, just as sick as him.

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Speaker 1: Like, well, I don't know, man, I was watching some

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Speaker 1: of those videos of her, and I just like everything

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Speaker 1: that she was saying like she believed it. It seemed

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Speaker 1: like she believed it so fucking hard. And there are

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Speaker 1: I mean, we will get into this, but I just

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Speaker 1: think people the whole thing about cult is that people

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Speaker 1: end up doing things that they would never ever do

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Speaker 1: in their normal life, and they totally like, they compromise

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Speaker 1: their own morals, They like become someone that they would

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Speaker 1: never have imagined that they've become. And it happened slowly

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Speaker 1: over time because this person has such strong influence over them.

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Speaker 1: So I buy that somebody would do horrible things or

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Speaker 1: things that they would never do otherwise, and then like

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Speaker 1: snap out of it and be like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck have I done with my life? I've

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Speaker 1: been branding women's slaves and having slaves. That part is

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Speaker 1: a little very crazy. She had slaves, you know, Like

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Speaker 1: I understand.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 2: One of the main things we want to talk about

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Speaker 2: is just the bias against people who are in cults,

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Speaker 2: are who whatever, like as being dumb.

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Speaker 1: My guess is the like dumb, naive, gullible, Yeah, which

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Speaker 1: is not true because literally anyone can join a cult

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Speaker 1: at any time, and the bless you think you're susceptible,

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Speaker 1: the more susceptible you are because you don't have your

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Speaker 1: defenses up. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't really know where I was going

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Speaker 2: with that, but you guys, it was brilliant, so.

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Speaker 1: I believe you. But yeah, I think it's really really.

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Speaker 2: Crazy that she had slaves and that she was basically

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Speaker 2: tricking women into sleeping with him.

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Speaker 1: Then it's true, it's true. But I just always think

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Speaker 1: about the chain of power and the chain of influence

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Speaker 1: and who was at the top of that, and in

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Speaker 1: this case, it was him. Although you think about Wildbead Country.

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Speaker 1: Did you watch Wildblold Country? Of course, and Sheila, Sheila

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Speaker 1: in that scenario seems totally like the.

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Speaker 2: Past, seems like a Sheila to me. She seems like

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Speaker 2: a Sheila to me. So maybe, but she is. I

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Speaker 2: mean the fact that she's saying she's sobbing and saying

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Speaker 2: that it's wrong.

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Speaker 4: Sheila never did that. Sheila's still saying.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Sheila. Yeah, she love Sheila. She a badass.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess we'll see how it goes. But

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Speaker 2: she's she might be like indicted for twenty years.

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Speaker 1: I mean that makes sense, that's fair. Yeah, so you know,

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Speaker 1: she'll probably not serve all of it. I'm so curious

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Speaker 1: to just hear the like inner workings of that story,

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Speaker 1: especially knowing the connections that my family has to him.

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Speaker 4: I can't wait to hear all about this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this isn't this is not the cult that

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Speaker 1: we were talking about today, But we just happened to

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Speaker 1: know the guy from this cult. So you're so lucky.

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Speaker 4: You know so many multiple cult Peters.

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Speaker 1: It's my thing, it's really my mom's thing. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: to her about that, Okay, should we introduce her absolutely.

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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, This is Christine my mother. Hey, my

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Speaker 1: mom is an amazing person. She has been through a

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Speaker 1: lot and now she's getting her PhD in media psychology.

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Speaker 1: She also runs a she formed what do you call it?

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Speaker 1: She formed founded a charity? Is that the word?

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Speaker 3: That's it?

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Speaker 1: A charity to help survivors of trafficking and those sort

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Speaker 1: of things. She can describe it better, I hope.

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Speaker 3: So, Hi, Mom, him, happy to be here. Thank you

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Speaker 3: for letting me come on and talk about this crazy stuff.

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Speaker 3: We're happy to have you.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about you, all right. The thing that is

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Speaker 1: that I always want to tell people about your story

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Speaker 1: is to give them context of the religion that you

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Speaker 1: were in when you were preyed upon him by this

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Speaker 1: cult leader guy, because I think for a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who don't know about how cults work, or don't

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Speaker 1: understand religion or Mormonism or those fundamental beliefs, they think

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Speaker 1: that you just met a guy and you were like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna believe in this guy. He seems like someone

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Speaker 1: I should believe in, and then just went with it

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Speaker 1: because you were in love with him or whatever. These

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Speaker 1: like stupid myths that are not true. So for me,

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Speaker 1: the important place to start here is that you were

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Speaker 1: a Mormon. You were a very devout, regular Mormon, no cultiness, well,

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Speaker 1: depending on who you ask about Mormonism as religion, and

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Speaker 1: you have these belief systems ingrained in your psyche. So

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Speaker 1: do you want to tell me about that? Right?

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Speaker 3: I converted to Mormonism when I was a teenager. I

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Speaker 3: would read the Book of Mormon in my bed under

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Speaker 3: the covers with a flashlight. There were strict rules against

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Speaker 3: me investigating.

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Speaker 1: The church, which happened because of missionaries, right right.

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Speaker 3: Because missionaries came over and they were having a big

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Speaker 3: influence on me. My parents thought they were losing me

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Speaker 3: to a cult. So they didn't want that and said, no,

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Speaker 3: what was drawing you towards that interesting question? I was

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Speaker 3: bullied when I was a child. I was rejected by

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Speaker 3: my peers. I mean, my grandfather was a Methodist minister,

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Speaker 3: and I always wondered, why don't we ever go to church?

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Speaker 3: So it was sort of like a job to him.

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Speaker 3: And I craved more. I craved a sense of meaning

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Speaker 3: because I wasn't getting it from being in some popular

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Speaker 3: click or something. And I started looking for religion in

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Speaker 3: high school and I found one. I was baptized on

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Speaker 3: my eighteenth birthday because my parents would not allow me

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Speaker 3: to join the church. So the day that I turned eighteen,

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Speaker 3: I drove to a lake where I met the missionaries

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Speaker 3: and a few members of the church, and I got

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Speaker 3: baptized in the freezing cold month of April in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: I totally forgot that. I just assumed it was an

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Speaker 1: indoor baptismal font You must have been very dedicated. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: That's a wild eighteenth birthday.

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Speaker 3: And that was so rebellious eighteenth No, that is rebellious.

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Speaker 3: That was so rebellious, you know. For at any rate,

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Speaker 3: it made me very happy. It was the happiest I

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Speaker 3: had ever been. I ended up going to Brigham Young University.

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Speaker 3: I went and became a missionary. I broke records on

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Speaker 3: my mission. I came off my mission to a man

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Speaker 3: who had been waiting for me, which is the father

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Speaker 3: of Lola, and we were married three and a half

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Speaker 3: weeks later. As soon as I got off my mission,

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Speaker 3: we were married and we lived the good, devout LDS life.

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Speaker 3: And you believe it. I believed right. I believed it

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Speaker 3: so much. I would say for me, it's not even

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Speaker 3: a matter of faith anymore. I have a true knowledge

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Speaker 3: that this is the truth. I knew it beyond the

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Speaker 3: shadow of a doubt, as they all do well, right,

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Speaker 3: all of them.

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Speaker 1: But so the interesting thing for me, and what I

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Speaker 1: remember from my childhood is seeing meaning, in seeing religious

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Speaker 1: meaning or like divine meaning, in coincidences and dreams. You

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Speaker 1: and Dad were married kind of because of a dream,

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Speaker 1: weren't That's true.

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Speaker 3: I had to dream when I was on my mission,

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Speaker 3: and I thought it indicated who I was to marry.

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Speaker 3: And we were walking over some rocks on a pier,

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Speaker 3: and this man reached his hand out and helped me

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Speaker 3: cross this scary part. And when I got off my mission,

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Speaker 3: I didn't think that my husband, the man I ended

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Speaker 3: up marrying. I didn't think he was the one. But

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Speaker 3: when we went on this walk on the pier and

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Speaker 3: he reached his hand, you know, it reminded me of that.

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Speaker 1: Dream, and it was a sign.

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Speaker 3: It was a sign, and there were many signs to me.

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Speaker 3: When I was a missionary, I prayed about where to

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Speaker 3: go to find people that were looking for the message

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Speaker 3: that I was going to share, and I would get

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Speaker 3: like I called it spiritual radar and just kind of

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Speaker 3: find the house based on intuition, and a remarkable number

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Speaker 3: of times when we would knock on that door, there

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Speaker 3: would be somebody who said, hey, I was just praying that,

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Speaker 3: you know, that God would show me the truth, and

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Speaker 3: you showed up. I mean things like that happened over

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Speaker 3: and over and over and over when I was in

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Speaker 3: that mindset, and I took all that to mean that,

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Speaker 3: you know, there really is a man in this guy

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Speaker 3: who's kind of pulling the puppet strings and helping me

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Speaker 3: know where to go and what to do. And if

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Speaker 3: I'm really in tune, I you know, I can make

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Speaker 3: miracles happen, almost like if I pray it, it's going

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Speaker 3: to happen, unless it's not God's will.

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Speaker 1: Right, So fast forward to you and that are divorced.

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Speaker 3: Right, we get divorced. And I got excommunicated because when

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Speaker 3: I was single, a divorced, single mother, I was intimate

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Speaker 3: with a man that I was in love with who

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Speaker 3: was also single.

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Speaker 1: Which is very unusual.

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Speaker 3: I have heard it, and so I was, you know,

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Speaker 3: cast away forever.

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Speaker 1: How did they find out?

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Speaker 3: Well, I was honest, and I felt so guilty about it. Oh,

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Speaker 3: I confessed. And then when I you know, saw him again.

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Speaker 3: I sinned again, and then it you know, I mean,

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Speaker 3: he was my boyfriend, and so I became what they

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Speaker 3: called it, habitual offender.

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Speaker 1: Guilty.

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Speaker 3: Then I got excommunicated and that was it. No more

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Speaker 3: of that stuff. I was going to turn my life

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Speaker 3: back around. I ended up during the time that I

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Speaker 3: was excommunicated by the way I met Keith Rainiery side.

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Speaker 1: Note, founder of Next the Side cult.

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Speaker 3: Side note. And yes he tried to recruit me into

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Speaker 3: his cult. You know, we can get to that later.

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Speaker 3: But I was, you know, stuck, because I really loved Mormonism.

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Speaker 3: To be fair, it made me happy. It gave me meaning,

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Speaker 3: There was purpose in my life, there was community. I

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Speaker 3: understood why I was on the earth, where I would

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Speaker 3: be going after this life. I had a plan. Everything

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Speaker 3: made sense. I just needed a husband, a new husband,

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Speaker 3: and so okay, now here's here's the here's the catch.

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Speaker 3: So the founder of Mormonism had a vision Ja Smith,

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Speaker 3: Joseph Smith. Some people call it a dream, depending on

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Speaker 3: which document you're reading. Dreams are believed to be a

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Speaker 3: potential source of God speaking to you, that he can

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Speaker 3: share messages through dreams, visions and visions. Right, I prayed

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Speaker 3: about who mister Wright was since I divorced mister Wrong,

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Speaker 3: who would this man be that I would be with

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Speaker 3: for time and all eternity. And an answer to that

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Speaker 3: dream That very night I had a profound dream vision thing,

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Speaker 3: and I saw this man and I remember his face

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Speaker 3: perfectly because he looked like a cross between my ex

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Speaker 3: boyfriend David and Brendan Fraser. Oh.

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Speaker 2: I loved back in the day, and I still love.

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Speaker 1: I was like, thank you having my father, not my man.

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Speaker 1: No disagreement here, Thanks God.

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Speaker 3: So some of my goal friend single women, we would

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Speaker 3: go to Mormon singles dances and I told them what

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Speaker 3: my mister Right looked like, so they would be on

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Speaker 3: the lookout. And my girlfriend had a dream that her

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Speaker 3: mister Right she would meet him and he would be

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Speaker 3: wearing a baseball cap. So we were both looking, you know,

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Speaker 3: using these signs to try to find, you know, information

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Speaker 3: about the other one's possible mate. So I go. So

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Speaker 3: I moved to Utah. I had a lot going on.

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Speaker 3: I was succeeding. I had a project that got funded

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Speaker 3: when I lived in California, and I was so excited

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Speaker 3: about it, and it required me to move to Utah.

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Speaker 3: And my very first Mormon singles dance that I went

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Speaker 3: to after moving to Utah was at Wheeler Farm. And

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Speaker 3: as I'm looking out onto the dance floor, who do

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Speaker 3: I see Brendan Fraser?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 3: That look like a cross between my ex boyfriend David

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Speaker 3: and Brendan Fraser.

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Speaker 2: So here's the important question. What kind of dancing are

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Speaker 2: you looking at? While you're like, are they what are

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Speaker 2: they doing?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Well it would be uh the dougie?

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Speaker 1: Are they grind dancing? Are they?

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Speaker 3: Oh? No, very very wholesome dancing, even wholesome music. But

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Speaker 3: it was pop music or dancing Mormon dances.

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Speaker 1: You have to keep Is this true of adults too?

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Speaker 1: You have to keep a Bible in a book of

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Speaker 1: Mormon space between you.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's my specific all right, so you're not

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Speaker 2: too saucy.

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Speaker 1: So you see this guy dancing with the Mormon book

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Speaker 1: space and.

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Speaker 3: He was dancing with elderly ladies. Oh yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: he wasn't dancing with all the hot girls. He was

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Speaker 3: dancing with, you know, the eighty three year old women.

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Speaker 3: And I and I went, look there he is, and

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Speaker 3: he's doing something that I approve of. In it, he's

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Speaker 3: so awesome. What kind of a man would go for

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Speaker 3: the elderly women to make sure they feel good, especially

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Speaker 3: when he's you know, handsome. And I just thought, oh,

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Speaker 3: my goodness. And I thought it was a proof that

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Speaker 3: there really was a God because he gave me the

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Speaker 3: dream and it manifest in the flesh. Yeah. So because

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Speaker 3: of that, he had a lot more power and influence

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Speaker 3: over me than if I had just met somebody. I

401
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 3: totally got that, you know, I thought there was meaning

402
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Speaker 3: to this and it was eternal and.

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Speaker 1: How do you think God literally gave you a sign

404
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Speaker 1: about this person, like, of course there's meaning there, it

405
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Speaker 1: would be right.

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Speaker 3: And then I happened to be a Book of Mormon fanatic.

407
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Speaker 3: I even wrote a book about the Book of Mormon.

408
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Speaker 3: I read the Book of Mormon NonStop, you know, dozens

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Speaker 3: of times, from cover to cover. So the Book of

410
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Speaker 3: Mormon has another part to it. This is what all

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Speaker 3: Mormons believe that there's a part when Joseph Smith originally

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Speaker 3: translated the Gold Plates, which is where the Book of

413
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Speaker 3: Mormon came from, you know, the Mormons belief.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to just translate it as in quotation

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Speaker 1: marks here because he translated them from an angel who

416
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Speaker 1: nobody ever saw in a hat.

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Speaker 3: That the angel wasn't in that hat.

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Speaker 1: No, the angel wasn't in the hat, but the angel

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Speaker 1: provided him the hat or something. Anyway, it came from

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Speaker 1: of a fucking angel, and he did it in a hat.

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Speaker 1: And this is the translation that's going on here. This

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Speaker 1: is not coming from like a physical text that exists.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Lila and her mother are using quotation marks which

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Speaker 2: you guys can't see, right.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So supposedly, supposedly there were gold plates because gold

426
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Speaker 5: does not rust, and if you look in you know,

427
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,160
Speaker 5: archaeological museums or whatever where you can find that they

428
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Speaker 5: did actually used to keep records.

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Speaker 3: By engraving them on metal plates. All right, So these

430
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Speaker 3: were the gold plates. They weren't dinner dishes, which would

431
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: be pretty awesome, but it was like leafs, you know,

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Speaker 3: like book leafs. So I believed that Joseph Smith translated

433
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Speaker 3: these ancient words, and that's what became the Book of Mormon,

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Speaker 3: which I loved and it inspired me, and it inspired

435
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 3: you know, millions of people. Well, there is a belief

436
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Speaker 3: right from the Book of Mormon that when Joseph Smith

437
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: translated these plates, he did not translate them all. There

438
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Speaker 3: was a part that was left sealed until the last days,

439
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: right before the second coming of Christ, that in the

440
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 3: last days, one mighty and strong would would appear.

441
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: And that's not setting up anything for trouble to who and.

442
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: Those gold plates would come back on the scene. Enter

443
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 3: the man from my dream. Not the man of my dreams,

444
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 3: but the man from my dream. Yeah, okay, keep in mind,

445
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 3: this man is not somebody that I would have ever

446
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: been interested in. Not my type, sort of a loser

447
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 3: in life, you know, I mean.

448
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: That's true. I remember when Mom was single and I

449
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: was a kid, she was dating Hella Millionaires.

450
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 3: Interesting, and so when I started when I met him though,

451
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 3: because of this, you know, this magical thing around meeting him,

452
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 3: you know, he wanted to he wanted to sleep with me,

453
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 3: but I wouldn't because I'd already went down that road.

454
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 3: I was excommunicated. I made my way back. I paid

455
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: the price. It was like psychologically abusive to go through

456
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 3: the repentance process and make it back where you can

457
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 3: be rebaptized. And I made it, and I was like overjoyed,

458
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 3: and I thought, wow, I'm one of the few people

459
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,120
Speaker 3: that made it back. Mostly when people are excommunicated, they

460
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 3: just you know, move on with life. But I loved

461
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 3: my church. I loved my Book of Mormon, and here

462
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: was this man. He was an atheist. He presented me

463
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 3: as an atheist at first, and I wasn't interested in him.

464
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: He was trying hardcore to get me to sleep with him,

465
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: or to get me to be interested in him, but

466
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 3: I wasn't interested. So he changed his plan and one

467
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 3: night he says, you know, I'm actually not an atheist.

468
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 3: I mean we would go back and forth. I was

469
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 3: trying to get him to stop being an atheist because

470
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 3: he once was a Mormon. So now we have an

471
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 3: ex Mormon and time Mormon, in my opinion, sociopath.

472
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, but.

473
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: I didn't know it at the time. Time, and I'm

474
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 3: trying to restore his faith. I thought Heavenly Father gave

475
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 3: me this challenge. This is my future husband, and I

476
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 3: need to bring him back to the fold. In the meantime,

477
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 3: he's trying to pull me out of the church, so

478
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: I'll sleep with him.

479
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.

480
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: Okay, so we have a battle going on and he

481
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 3: couldn't do it. He later told me that I was

482
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: the first woman in his life whose faith he could

483
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 3: not break. So he changes his story and suddenly he

484
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 3: says I, he says, Christine, I have to tell you

485
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 3: the truth. I'm really non an atheist. It was a test.

486
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: It was just a test to see if I could

487
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 3: break your faith like every other woman. And because I

488
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 3: could not break your faith, I am allowed to tell

489
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 3: you the truth. I have translated this sealed portion of

490
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 3: the Book of Mormon in preparation for the second coming

491
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 3: of Christ.

492
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: And by the way, tests are a huge thing in Mormonism. Yeah,

493
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: that's from God, like is proving your your worthiness, proving

494
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: your righteousness.

495
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah right. And I didn't believe in him overnight. And

496
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 3: there were other believers, more than three. By the way,

497
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 3: she only interacted with three, but.

498
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: I guess my experience of it was three.

499
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 3: Yeah right, but there were more. But nonetheless, it was

500
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 3: a small It was small, a small group. But so

501
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: I get sucked in and I'm thinking, oh my goodness,

502
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 3: this is the new Joseph Smith. That must make me

503
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 3: the new Emma his wife, you know, I mean, because

504
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 3: this man wanted to take me as his wife. So

505
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 3: here we've got the new prophet. He even sent me

506
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 3: eight chapters of the translation of these new Sealed Portion scriptures,

507
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 3: and it felt no different to me than when I

508
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: believed in the Book of Mormon the first time. It

509
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: was a big leap of faith to go from only

510
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: believing the Bible to believing the Book of Mormon as

511
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: a teenager. So it just didn't seem that weird that

512
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 3: the Sealed Portion would be coming forward. It was all

513
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 3: a leap of faith, which is ironic because after all

514
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 3: this was done. One of the criticisms that I had

515
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,959
Speaker 3: from people who are devout Mormons was, how could you

516
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 3: ever have fallen for that?

517
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, while I fell on the people who

518
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 2: baptized ghosts.

519
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: You can believe in the Book of Mormon. But in

520
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 3: the Book of Mormon it says in the last days

521
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: the Sealed Portion will come forward.

522
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: Right It's right there.

523
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 3: But you know, you know, I should have known better somehow.

524
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 3: So at any rate, what happened is he tells me

525
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: that we need to meet in Las Vegas. I am

526
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: to tell no one that we are to meet. He

527
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 3: is a prophet. He tells me that I had that

528
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 3: dream because I was sent to him to be his

529
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 3: help meet. In translating this a portion and that I

530
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: pass all these tests, and I was going to be

531
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 3: the prophet of the wife. I mean, the wife of

532
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 3: the prophet.

533
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: That's a much cooler title.

534
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: Oh wow, and that's what I secretly wish, I thought

535
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: the other titles. So I thought, Wow, that's what happens

536
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 3: when you stick it out. You get rebaptized, you know,

537
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 3: you get you know, I felt like being rebaptized. All

538
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: my sins had been washed away, and now all these

539
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 3: manifestations and miracles are happening in my head. And okay,

540
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 3: one step at a time, I start really believing in him,

541
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 3: and then I find myself in Las Vegas about to

542
00:30:54,080 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 3: get married to this man, not legally married. He said

543
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: it would be like the prophets of old, like Melachi

544
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 3: took Anna. I mean, once you knew a person, which

545
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: means had sex with them, you know in the Bible,

546
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: it would say, and he knew her, right, Okay, So

547
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 3: that was when.

548
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: I started using that term. We totally knew each other

549
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 1: last night.

550
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 3: And so I sat there thinking it out, thinking I

551
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 3: saw him in a dream.

552
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: That would fuck I mean, I don't know if you

553
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: can say the word, but that would screw me up hardcore.

554
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 2: If I saw him in a dream.

555
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I saw him in a dream. I got rebaptized.

556
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 3: The sealed portion chapters seemed the same of the same

557
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: spirit as the Book of Mormon. And I look him

558
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 3: in the eyes and I say, promise me, you're not

559
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 3: deceiving me, just so you can sleep with me. And

560
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: he said, I wish I was deceiving you, that my

561
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: calling has been so difficult and so lonely. Oh my

562
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 3: dear Christine, how I wish that this, that I didn't

563
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: have this yoke upon me. And he went on and

564
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 3: on about okay, and then I knew him. Oh here,

565
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 3: I'm thinking I'm his wife now, and I said that's it.

566
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: You know, there's no like ceremony, and he was like,

567
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 3: that was the ceremony. Okay. So he lets me think

568
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: I am his eternal wife, and the prophets helped me

569
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 3: and that I would be helping to restore polygamy to

570
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 3: the world even.

571
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: And early Mormons believed in polygamy, and then they abolished

572
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: it when the government said that they couldn't do it anymore.

573
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: Right now, guess what. Now I'm in a pickle because

574
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: if he's not a prophet, I just slept with somebody

575
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 3: that I wasn't married to, and I would get excommunicated

576
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 3: again and I would never be able to get back

577
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 3: into the church. Yeah, so now my critical thinking switched

578
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: a million little switches switched off so that I could

579
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 3: see everything that supported the fact that he really was

580
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 3: a prophet, because this was the double bind that I

581
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: was in. If he was a prophet, then I was

582
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: on the right path and I would be going to

583
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 3: the celestial Kingdom, in the Highest Kingdom where I could

584
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 3: be with my children forever. If he was not a

585
00:33:54,800 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: prophet and I just slept with him, I would certainly

586
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: lose my soul. So I was invested in him being

587
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 3: a prophet. Now, and fundamental Mormon beliefs, a prophet is

588
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 3: not allowed to lead you astray, that the Lord will

589
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: kill them, take their lives before they let you lead

590
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 3: them astray, before he will allow them to lead you astray.

591
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 3: So this is a fail safe for profits because they

592
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: can lead you astray, but you think they can't.

593
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 4: So they're like, I'm not dead, so I'm not lying.

594
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I'm telling you the truth here, So I

595
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 3: follow my prophet's words. Now, keep in mind, I'm not

596
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: in love with this guy. But I'm honored because you know,

597
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 3: I am the wife of the prophet. I am the

598
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: secret wife of the prophet. Well, then I have to

599
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 3: start sacrificing, because the prophet's wife has to prove that

600
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: she's more worthy than anybody else, so she has to

601
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 3: make bigger sacrifices. So first comes the money. Then comes

602
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: the dispossession of all the things that I cherished, And

603
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: of course the money from that also went to him.

604
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 3: He said it went into a fund to help the

605
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 3: poor and needy. I thought I was, and you did too,

606
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: I mean we were.

607
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I feel like we I will now talk

608
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: about how I came to Yes.

609
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 3: I want to call it Adam. No, no, no, no.

610
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 1: I want to call him something to year. I like Chad, Yeah, yeah, Chad.

611
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: I am twelve twelve, right, and I meet this guy,

612
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: and I actually I'm like, I'm so hazy now on

613
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 1: how I true on how I felt about him. But

614
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: I feel like I didn't like at first, and then

615
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:03,240
Speaker 1: he bought me snacks, and then I liked him, which

616
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: is how you win me. It's a classic theme in

617
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: my life. You were impressed with the fruits, so I

618
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: was impressed with well, gusher's specifically right, right, That's what

619
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: it was. And but I didn't know much about him.

620
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: I just knew my mom spending more time with him,

621
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: and she had, you know, she was dating guys. She

622
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: was very well liked among the fellas, So I don't

623
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: think I thought anything particularly unusual was happening. And one

624
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: day I was snooping around hacking her computer, hacking, I

625
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: was hacking computer, was I was being a snoop. I

626
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: wanted to see what was what was going on in

627
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: mom's life. And I found these letters that he had

628
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: written to her, and I wish I could remember specifically

629
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: what they said, but basically saying like what God wants

630
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: her to do and basically implying that he is her prophet.

631
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: And I'm twelve and I'm Mormon, and I don't know

632
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: what any of this means. I just think, oh, wow,

633
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: Chad's a profit.

634
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 3: Wow.

635
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: So then I believed in him, and he found out

636
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: that I believed in him, and so then I was

637
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: in on it too, and he had me make I

638
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: was starting to make a website. I believe it was

639
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: an angel Fire website for his non existent charity that

640
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: he had made up where all the money from the

641
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: things my mom sold was going to and this was

642
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,400
Speaker 1: this is gonna be called angel Fire?

643
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 2: Is that?

644
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: No? No? Do you know an angel Where are you?

645
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: She was very savvy, very tech savvy for a little.

646
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: Angel Fire was like like the early Internet version of like, uh,

647
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: what's a web? Yeah? Like word press? Okay, okay, okay.

648
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: It was real dorky. They were like lots of like

649
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: cyber doll websites and lots of fan sites on angel Fire.

650
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: You were not cool in the early two houses.

651
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 4: No, I was not.

652
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: It was a really dorky way to make a website.

653
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: And I started making a website for his stupid non

654
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: existent charity.

655
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 2: Well, I wasn't allowed to have computers art, Oh that's right, right,

656
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: you know.

657
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 3: So you're like and two, I'm in yeah, and she's volunteering.

658
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: Shit, yeah, And I think that I'm chosen too, because

659
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: that's I'm twelve. And how cool did I feel thinking that?

660
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: Like I was helping usher in the last days the

661
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Like, oh my goodness, I'm

662
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,479
Speaker 1: such a special girl. There's nobody else that knows about

663
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: this except for me and my mom.

664
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 3: And he told me the reason I was so special

665
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 3: was because I had her. She was the real Jews

666
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: here and she sang to him and he was like,

667
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 3: she's going to be a star and everything else, So.

668
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: Okay, you know. Yeah. And then well so the yard sale.

669
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 3: Right, we sold stuff for the to help the poor

670
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: and needy to go into this fund. And then he

671
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 3: told me I needed to be separated from my children

672
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 3: because being the prophet's wife helping with the translation would

673
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: put me in a very dangerous situation, and for their

674
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: own safety, my children needed for a time being to

675
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: be away from me, and I needed to go and

676
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 3: live among the poor and needy. So I ended up

677
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 3: in a resident hotel. The children ended up in different places,

678
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: you know, like the boys went to their fathers and

679
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 3: she went to a friend.

680
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: Of stayed at in the house of a family from nearby. Yeah.

681
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 3: And I was quite a sheltered person growing up, even

682
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: though we weren't religious. I had a very strict father

683
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 3: as well and came from a small town. Then I

684
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: got married and lived the Mormon life. Never I was

685
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 3: not sophisticated. So now I'm living in a resident hotel

686
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 3: in downtown Salt Lake, which is a place where people

687
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 3: go when they first get out of prison. Okay, So

688
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 3: there were eighty occupants, and seventy eight of them were

689
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,479
Speaker 3: men or seventy seven. Then there was a woman who

690
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 3: was in a wheelchair and a woman who was like

691
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 3: eighty seven, and then there was me. So I was

692
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 3: at that time. I had been doing pageants and staying

693
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 3: in shape and running my business, but I was like

694
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 3: a lamb in a slaughter. So once my money ran out,

695
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 3: the profit decides that I need to pass some new tests.

696
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 3: I need to descend below all things because I was

697
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 3: too proud and how dare I think positive things about myself?

698
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 3: I needed to be humbled. And the word that he

699
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: used in writing was that I needed to be a

700
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 3: based before men. Do you know the word a baste? Okay?

701
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 3: So one step at a time and I'll spare you

702
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 3: the gory details. But I'm in this scary place. I'm

703
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 3: being raped. I was robbed a couple of times. I

704
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 3: was beaten. I was physically harmed to the point where

705
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 3: I needed to get medical attention. And I was told

706
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 3: that there were three men who were watching me at

707
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 3: all times and if I ever left did not come back,

708
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 3: then I would run the risk of losing my life,

709
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: never being with my children again. He threatened their eternity.

710
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 3: And so I'm in this situation. I'm not allowed to

711
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 3: tell anybody. I'm not allowed to get therapy because I

712
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 3: can't tell anybody that these are that I need to

713
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 3: be purged in such a violent manner. And I'm saying,

714
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 3: surely he can't, you know, he can't know what's going on.

715
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 3: I need to tell him what's going on. He wouldn't

716
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,240
Speaker 3: allow me to be here. In fact, he wrote me letters.

717
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 3: He wrote me a letter after I describe some of

718
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 3: the heartache and suffering that I was going through, and

719
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 3: he said, oh, my dear sister, Oh my heart cries

720
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 3: for you. I wish the mountains would fall down upon

721
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 3: and bury the men that are hurting you. And you know,

722
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 3: being very colorful, and how upset he is that I'm

723
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 3: being harmed? And who are my children? Anyway? You know what?

724
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 3: Because he wanted all things that brought me joy to

725
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 3: be out of my life, and my children were my life.

726
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 3: I was even young Mother of the Year at one point,

727
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 3: and the business that I had that took me to

728
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: Utah revolved all around family enrichment. My life was about

729
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 3: my children. So he wanted my children away from me

730
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 3: so that I could dedicate everything to him. And you know,

731
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 3: I think he was jealous of my children. But this

732
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: is a man who couldn't stick to one thought for

733
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 3: a long time. And what happened is I started becoming

734
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 3: sexually exploited, and he was He was the beneficiary. Now

735
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 3: keep in mind, I never had I never took money

736
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 3: for sex. I never was paid. I never handled any transactions.

737
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 3: They call it human trafficking, okay, And he had he

738
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 3: ended up in prison, in jail for something else, so

739
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,080
Speaker 3: he had other people handling me. And then I get

740
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 3: a revelation from jail, one of the believers. I'll call

741
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 3: her his sister Jackie. Sister no, yeah, sister Debbie, Okay.

742
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Jackie someone okay anyway Debbie.

743
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. Yeah. So sister Debbie I thought was an

744
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 3: elderly lady. I had always heard about sister Debbie's gonna

745
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,880
Speaker 3: help with this and help with that. And he I

746
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 3: get this revelation sent to me me that says that

747
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 3: Chad would be marrying legally marrying sister Debbie, and that

748
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 3: I needed to be I needed to continue serving in

749
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 3: the manner that was required to provide financial support because

750
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 3: of the many men that desired me. That my job

751
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 3: was to provide this financial support and service to Chad

752
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 3: and his new wife, Debbie, and that if I obeyed

753
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 3: all of his commandments, then I would be a mother

754
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 3: in heaven. So now I was demoted from first wife

755
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 3: to slave wife. And in the same revelation, sister Debbie

756
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 3: was promised that they would have children together, that they

757
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 3: would be known throughout the world for their love for

758
00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 3: one another. But I had to remain a secret. So

759
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 3: at this point, you know, I'm so damaged. I have

760
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 3: layers and layers of trauma. I'm so confused, but my

761
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,479
Speaker 3: brain does not want to believe that my prophet had

762
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 3: anything to do with the harm that was befalling me.

763
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 3: I write letters to him and to Sister Debbie just

764
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 3: to make sure that they know that my life was

765
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 3: hanging by a thread. I thought about killing myself every

766
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 3: single hour. I thought there was no other way out,

767
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 3: and then he blew out the last candle flicker of

768
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 3: hope that I had. With his influence and power over me.

769
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: He was my ecclesiastical power. He was like the Pope

770
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 3: to me, even beyond the Pope because I believed he

771
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 3: a prophet. All Mormons, their prophets speak directly to God.

772
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 3: He is the one that put me in that situation.

773
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 3: He's the one that should have known and is not

774
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 3: getting me out of that situation. He said, you are

775
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 3: exactly where you need to be. And he said, if

776
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:18,279
Speaker 3: you are not happy serving in the way that you

777
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 3: have been asked to serve, then all your sacrifices have

778
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 3: been in vain. And that was it. So now I'm

779
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 3: going to hell anyway I went. I passed all these tests.

780
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: I'm going to hell anyway. My money's gone, my dreams

781
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 3: are gone. I had a big project that God funded, gone,

782
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: my children are gone. Certain precious things I parted with

783
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 3: because of him. And I had a wedding dress for

784
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 3: when I did find mister Wright that I would never marry,

785
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 3: that I would never wear. I had to sell that.

786
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 3: I had a dress I designed myself that I wore

787
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 3: in pageants that was just amazing, and I had to

788
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: sell that. I had to sell things that I was

789
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 3: attached to. And I was left there with nothing. He

790
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 3: took every last thing that a woman holds near and

791
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: dear to her heart. There was nothing left for me.

792
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: To do but die.

793
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 1: So meanwhile, I am living with this family from church

794
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: who has no idea what's going on. I don't do

795
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: you remember what we told them about why I was there.

796
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: I don't remember what we told them, but they just

797
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: knew I wasn't living with my mom, and I am

798
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: talking to my mom on the phone periodically, but I

799
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 1: don't know exactly what's going on, but I just hear

800
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: that it's like not good over there. Something is going on.

801
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:56,240
Speaker 1: She's not having a good time. But I think, like, Okay,

802
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: it's just a test. God is just testing her. God

803
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: tests people. That's what he does. When you're chosen, you,

804
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: you know, He's gonna test you and make your life really,

805
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: really hard so that you can experience all the glories

806
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: of heaven. And I was like lonely and sad without

807
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: my mom. But I just would come for myself by saying,

808
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: while I'm chosen by God. So the Second Coming is

809
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: coming soon, Jesus gonna It's gonna come soon, and then

810
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: everything's gonna be amazing. Like I have chosen. I am

811
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 1: so special. These kids at school might not, you know,

812
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: like me that much, or I might not have any friends,

813
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: but they'll see one day when they see that I

814
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 1: was the kid who ushered him the second Coming of Christ.

815
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 2: I love that weird al song where he's like and

816
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 2: I'll be laughing my head off when you're burning and

817
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: house Paradise.

818
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: Weird. How was one of my favorite artists at this

819
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: time side note Yeah, And I visited her once and

820
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: it was so depressing and scary. The bathroom we had

821
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom in the hallway there were

822
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: these like all these like scary men there. There were

823
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: like stalkers throwing, like trying to barge in. He has

824
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: to call the cops one night because this man was

825
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: trying to force his way in anyway. It was just

826
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 1: a really scary situation. And my mom is this. Even

827
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: at that age, I was aware that, like my mom

828
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 1: exuded this this youthfulness and this like innocence, and I like,

829
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: it was just so scary to see her in this place.

830
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: But I thought that that was God's will and that

831
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 1: was God testing her, and that was what needed to

832
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 1: happen so that we could help Jesus come back. In retrospect,

833
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: not sure how they were supposed to be related made

834
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: sense at.

835
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 3: The time, So what the prophet would send men from

836
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 3: prison to come and be served by me when they

837
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 3: got out of prison. Oh okay, I had a job

838
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 3: to do. And one man who came ended up crying.

839
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: I showed him pictures of my children, and I showed him,

840
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 3: you know what my prior dreams were before I got

841
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 3: involved in the work, and he just started crying. I mean,

842
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 3: this is an ex con, right, he's crying. He's bawling, sobbing,

843
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 3: convulsing tears. And I didn't understand why. I mean, he

844
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 3: laid his head on my lap and was bawling like

845
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:30,080
Speaker 3: a baby. And he left. And I was terrified because

846
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 3: I was so on the verge of killing myself that

847
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 3: I was relieved when someone was there, because I knew

848
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,600
Speaker 3: I would at least make it through the next hour

849
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 3: if somebody was with me. And I did make a

850
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:49,280
Speaker 3: couple of attempts towards suicide, and I wrote to miss Debbie,

851
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 3: sister Debbie, and I said, please, if you and and

852
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,239
Speaker 3: Chad are sometimes I wonder if you're deceiving me just

853
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 3: for entertainment or money, you know, please tell me the truth.

854
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 3: My life is hanging by a thread. And you know,

855
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 3: woman to woman, women expect other women to symbiotically care

856
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 3: for one another or to you know, step in if

857
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 3: they see another woman being harmed. And that's what I expected.

858
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,439
Speaker 3: And she wrote back and said, oh, we would never

859
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 3: deceive you, not for money, not for entertainment or any

860
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 3: other purpose. I can't even imagine the horrible experiences that

861
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 3: you must have had with people to even assume such

862
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 3: a thing.

863
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: She's the Sheila. You haven't seen a wild country, so

864
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: you don't know what that means.

865
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 3: I have seen it. We would never do that to you.

866
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 3: There were other believers. I reached out to them, you know,

867
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 3: by email. I was crying out. I even reached out

868
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 3: during this time to Keith Vanieri from Nexium.

869
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: You know, and this quoted in an article talking about

870
00:52:59,080 --> 00:52:59,919
Speaker 1: her cult leader.

871
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: Right for a while, it was the battle of the

872
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 3: cult eaters, you know. Was I gonna go with Keith

873
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 3: or was I gonna go with Chad? And they both

874
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 3: knew about each other, and anyway, so my Nexium story

875
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 3: is amazing too, but that's the story for another day.

876
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 3: So this guy starts crying and he leaves, and then

877
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 3: I was afraid. And then I was alone again, and

878
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 3: I remember I would lay on my little cot in

879
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,319
Speaker 3: this room that was like a cell and it was

880
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 3: so hot, like being in an attic because there was

881
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 3: no air conditioning and there were cockroaches. I went, don't

882
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: picture this like a hotel room. I'm laying there and

883
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 3: I can't even feel my body. It just felt like wood.

884
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 3: I mean, my trauma was really seriously deep. And in

885
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 3: the afternoon he comes back and he brings sister Debbie

886
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 3: with him, who happens to be an old lady by

887
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 3: the way. He brings sister Debbie with him, and they

888
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 3: come in and they confess Chad is not a prophet.

889
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: Were not believers. They pretended they were believers. Okay, Chad

890
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 3: is an atheist. We're atheists. We're sorry we helped him

891
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 3: deceive you and exploit you. But he told us that

892
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: if we told you the truth, that you would die.

893
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 3: And this person, who, this young man, his name was Jeff,

894
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 3: was a hero. I mean I would have died within

895
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 3: the week had he not come clean.

896
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 2: What is that like when? I mean, can your brain

897
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 2: process it immediately or how long?

898
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 3: Thank you for asking that question. I remember collapsing to

899
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 3: the floor on my knees, you know, leaning forward, rocking

900
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 3: back and forth, and watching my life pass before my eyes,

901
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 3: thinking that everything that I had gone through, everything that

902
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 3: I had lost, everything that I had almost lost, including

903
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 3: my life, was in vain. It was for someone's sadistic

904
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: entertainment and to get money for his fiancee to go shopping.

905
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 3: I remember wailing on that floor when they're in there, wailing,

906
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 3: just wailing, and I said to her, I screamed, you know,

907
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,560
Speaker 3: I begged you for the truth.

908
00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: You know.

909
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 3: Her response was, I thought you would die if I

910
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,399
Speaker 3: told you the truth. And it's kind of a hard

911
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 3: thing for me to buy because I was about to

912
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 3: die from suicide, if not from one of the men.

913
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: She knew that. I mean, you were writing them and

914
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: saying like, why is this happening to me? Why would

915
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: God want these horrible things? Like she fucking knew.

916
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 3: She did know. She was an accomplice, full blown accomplice.

917
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 3: She was a Sheila. And then Jeff was a hero

918
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: and he couldn't He would have come back sooner, but

919
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 3: he had to drag her there. She even came to

920
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 3: the hotel and picked up money. You know, so I'm

921
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 3: a trafficking victim at the hands of an atheist using

922
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 3: my religious beliefs, to open the door, to get me

923
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,839
Speaker 3: to trust, to get me into a situation where I

924
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 3: am then out of control.

925
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 4: I mean, he did it seamlessly.

926
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 3: He did Afterwards I needed Probably I should have been

927
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 3: in a hospital, you know, like a rehab or something.

928
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 3: I was in so much distress. I made a police

929
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 3: report and the police did not even offer me a

930
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: victim's advocate because they said, well, it was a fraud,

931
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 3: but you believed him so awful, and you know now

932
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 3: they understand things better, they wouldn't respond like that now.

933
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,479
Speaker 3: But I ended up getting therapy, getting diagnosed with post

934
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 3: traumatic stress disorder and dealing it with dealing with it

935
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 3: for years and years. And then I went on a mission,

936
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 3: a different kind of mission, a mission of my own,

937
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 3: to discover what happened to my brain? How did I

938
00:57:55,920 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 3: go from being an entrepreneur, a published author, young mother

939
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 3: of the year, a respected and smart, I thought person

940
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 3: in my community to being the lowliest of the low,

941
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 3: with nothing left. Even my hopes and dreams were gone.

942
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 3: But when I recovered my children, that was the redeeming factor.

943
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 3: When all this happened, and I realized that all this

944
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 3: was in vain and it was I mean the level

945
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 3: of cruelty was just world record to me.

946
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, did you confront him? Were you able to get

947
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 4: at least that.

948
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 3: I did it in writing? I did it in writing

949
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 3: incentive to him in jail. So and I put all

950
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 3: this evidence in and at any rate. But what I

951
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 3: learned it took me about a decade. What I learned

952
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 3: is that I needed to stop blaming myself. I blamed

953
00:58:53,720 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 3: myself for years because everybody else did too. And I

954
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 3: thought I had something seriously wrong with my brain. I

955
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 3: really thought that I had mental illness, that I could

956
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 3: have fallen for that, and I tried to get tested

957
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 3: to see what is my brain damage? What is wrong

958
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 3: with me? That I fell for that. And it wasn't

959
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 3: until I got therapy from a cult expert named Steve

960
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 3: Hassen and I read his book that I realized that

961
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 3: people fall into these groups, they get attracted into these groups.

962
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 3: I mean, thousands and thousands of people were in situations

963
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,959
Speaker 3: like me. It wasn't just me. I thought nobody else

964
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 3: would ever fall for this, nobody would have something like

965
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 3: this happened to them. But now that I'm in the

966
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 3: world of helping cult survivors, dozens hundreds thousands of women

967
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 3: have been sexually exploited by their occult leader, and nobody

968
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 3: joins a cult. People get involved in movements that they

969
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 3: sincerely believe are true are going to make a difference

970
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 3: in the world, and the same with Alison Mac. I

971
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 3: err on the side of compassion for Alison Mac because

972
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 3: there is a process by which people get influence. It's

973
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 3: called undue influence, because you know, the person that has

974
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 3: so much power, access to God, who can argue with that,

975
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 3: who can argue with the smartest man in the world.

976
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 3: It's never the woman that's right, you know, or the follower,

977
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 3: It's always the leader. It's he always has some sort

978
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 3: of way to get information that nobody can question. So

979
01:00:54,360 --> 01:01:01,360
Speaker 3: the unquestionable Guru takes advantage of that power and step

980
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 3: by step creates one sacrifice after another after another, until

981
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 3: you're so invested you don't want to believe that this

982
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 3: person is evil. This is in vain. Yeah, you know.

983
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 3: So when I learned it was all false, although it

984
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 3: was traumatic, suddenly things made sense. I suddenly I knew

985
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 3: I could round up my children, and I knew it

986
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 3: wasn't God telling me I wasn't worthy to raise my beautiful,

987
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 3: incredible children. It was it was, you know, dare I

988
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 3: say it? I mean, I've often wondered if he's a psychopath.

989
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 1: I mean, he's obviously a psychopath, Like why is there?

990
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean, sure, I am not his medical professional. I

991
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: cannot legally technically diagnose him with sociopathy. It is my

992
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 1: strong opinion that he's a psychopath. I do not believe

993
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: if he's a person who has exhibited empathetic qualities personally.

994
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: This seems like a good time to add in a

995
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: disclaimer about Chad's perspective here. Okay, it's been a roller coaster.

996
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: In an interview with the Utah newspaper in two thousand

997
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,840
Speaker 1: and seven, Chad told a reporter that my mom projected

998
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: divine status onto him, and she convinced herself that he

999
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: was a prophet, and he just ran with it. He

1000
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 1: said that she volunteered the money for him. In the

1001
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,880
Speaker 1: same article, he did admit, though, to deceiving her religiously

1002
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: and playing on her religious beliefs, and he said he

1003
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 1: was sorry about doing that, And then later he said

1004
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 1: that he actually had to tell the reporter that he

1005
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: made the sealed portion up for legal reasons, but he

1006
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 1: really did translate it from an angel and he really

1007
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 1: was a prophet, but still claimed that my mom was

1008
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: making up her part and presumably was saying that all

1009
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: the emails she had from him were forged. I guess.

1010
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: And then in a twenty seventeen podcast, he flip flopped

1011
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 1: again and said, JK, he really did make the sealed

1012
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: portion up. It was all a lie to get people

1013
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,080
Speaker 1: to stop believing in the Book of Mormon. And now

1014
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: his platform has moved on to more political oriented beliefs,

1015
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 1: but at every stage he's maintained that my mom is

1016
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: just a vengeful ex lover. Though of course a handful

1017
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: of other ex followers have spoken out about him, including men,

1018
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: and I imagine there will be more to come. But

1019
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,600
Speaker 1: so if Chad has anything to add to this conversation,

1020
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 1: we invite him to submit a statement in response to

1021
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 1: this episode. We will verbally state it on the episode.

1022
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: That will be interesting is still is he still work

1023
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 1: in the work in his program.

1024
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 3: Oh. As a matter of fact, he just last week,

1025
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 3: speaking of cult News, was found guilty of fraud and racketeering. No,

1026
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 3: for the very same stuff, Chad.

1027
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: No shocking, No, I mean like it's when you hear

1028
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: your story, it sounds like there's it's just this isolated

1029
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 1: incident that he just decided to pray on this poor woman,

1030
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:05,960
Speaker 1: But he prayed on so many people, including.

1031
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,479
Speaker 3: Men, still including man, and he goes after people with money.

1032
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 3: And that's one of the myths about cults. They think that,

1033
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 3: you know, the public tends to think that only like

1034
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 3: these last teenagers or young adults that have a big

1035
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 3: hole in their life are looking for something to get

1036
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 3: attracted to cults. And while they might have a special vulnerability,

1037
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 3: everybody is vulnerable because everybody has something they love. If

1038
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 3: you love something, that's your vulnerability. If you have a

1039
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 3: dream for something, that's your vulnerability. Everybody has vulnerabilities. And

1040
01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 3: if you have a master manipulator, he will hone in

1041
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 3: on those. So all of those people listening that say

1042
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,840
Speaker 3: I'm too smart for this, nobody can get me. You're

1043
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:55,680
Speaker 3: a sitting deck.

1044
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, watch your back, dude.

1045
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 3: It might be a chick too.

1046
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, I know it's

1047
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 1: incredibly successful screenwriters who've joined cults. There are you know

1048
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: business I mean, look at the look at an exium.

1049
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, just sitting here thinking about it a

1050
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,680
Speaker 2: bad relationship.

1051
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: Is almost like joining in. You can have the same thought.

1052
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,479
Speaker 3: You can have a cult of too, you can.

1053
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 2: So, you know, the smartest people in the world, the

1054
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 2: most beautiful, they're.

1055
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: In crazy abusive relationships.

1056
01:05:28,840 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 4: All the time.

1057
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,920
Speaker 1: That having just having that power over somebody, Yeah.

1058
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 3: Exactly, it can happen to everybody. There are dynamics. Now

1059
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 3: I understand it, you know. Now I'm finishing my PhD

1060
01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 3: in psychology, and I understand the pressures of you know,

1061
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 3: social pressure and the power of social proof and influence

1062
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 3: in small groups, and and and critical thinking and loss

1063
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,640
Speaker 3: of version, all these crazy things. But that's what happens.

1064
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 3: It can happen in a relationship of two, It can

1065
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 3: happen if family, It could happen in a workplace.

1066
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1067
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,720
Speaker 3: There are political cults, there are self help cults. And

1068
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 3: if you suspect that you're in a cult, you'll you'll

1069
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 3: have some signs. You know, they'll try to control your behavior,

1070
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 3: they'll try to control the information that you're getting, or

1071
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 3: tell you not to go on the internet and read that.

1072
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: Relationship. Yeah, if you're in a group that tells you

1073
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 1: not to read about the group or not to talk

1074
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: to anyone else about the group.

1075
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 2: You're probably in a If you're dating a guy who says,

1076
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 2: don't talk to any of my ex girlfriends, you're in

1077
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 2: a cult.

1078
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 3: That's good. That's good, right, These are good signs and

1079
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:46,360
Speaker 3: cults attract the best people in the world. And if

1080
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 3: you were in one, consider it a considerate about If

1081
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 3: you were in one, consider it a badge of honor.

1082
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 3: You've survived it, you came out, and you have a

1083
01:06:59,240 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 3: story to tell.

1084
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: What do you believe in?

1085
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 4: Now?

1086
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not an atheist, mom, I am not. I

1087
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 3: did not throw out the baby with the bathwater. There

1088
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 3: was a time when I thought none of this is

1089
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:18,440
Speaker 3: true nothing, It's all just fiction. Now I see a

1090
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 3: purpose in religion. I mean, I study positive psychology and

1091
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 3: one of the factors of happiness is having a spiritual life,

1092
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 3: having a religious community. And I think religion gives a

1093
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 3: purpose and a meaning to lives. And I recommend people

1094
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 3: have a religion, just don't let it control you.

1095
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:43,320
Speaker 1: I would want to ask you, in a nutshell, what

1096
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,919
Speaker 1: do you think? What would you say that you learn

1097
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: from this experience?

1098
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:53,920
Speaker 3: Okay, I learned that I had faulty thinking. I learned

1099
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 3: that looking for signs and coincidences and trying to give

1100
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 3: them godly meaning is very dangerous. I learned to believe

1101
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:09,440
Speaker 3: what I see, Yeah, to see things, to know for

1102
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 3: a fact, to not believe in good feelings, that good

1103
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 3: feelings are not proof of truth.

1104
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: Right.

1105
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 3: I learned that somebody can have This is the biggest thing.

1106
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 3: I learned that somebody can put on in an incredible

1107
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 3: show of goodness. Help the poor and needy. Let's save

1108
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,400
Speaker 3: the world, Let's save the trees, Let's save the government.

1109
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:38,000
Speaker 3: It's always a great mission or cause to save the world.

1110
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 3: But the people behind it, with their great mission and cause,

1111
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 3: could be really just donning a costume, and it's really

1112
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:47,639
Speaker 3: all about them.

1113
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, the bigger that parade is the bigger that show

1114
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: of all of how great of a heart they have

1115
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: or whatever. The less I trust and.

1116
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 2: Narcissists are a hell of a drying Yeah.

1117
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 3: Well, they all have to have this mission to attract people.

1118
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 3: And quite frankly, a lot of colts do a lot

1119
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 3: of good too. They're not one hundred percent bad. So

1120
01:09:11,320 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 3: just watch it and don't believe for one minute that

1121
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:17,240
Speaker 3: because your teacher is teaching great things that he's not

1122
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 3: also in the back room molesting.

1123
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: Somebody exactly exactly. It's that that's the great area that

1124
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: I feel like people don't grasp as I did good

1125
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: and bad right in these groups and in these people,

1126
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 1: Like just because there is good there does not mean

1127
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 1: that there isn't bad there exactly.

1128
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 3: Like even Alison Mac, I think she had a big

1129
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 3: wake up. I read her pleading and she was like, wow,

1130
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:47,519
Speaker 3: I thought we were helping people. I thought I was

1131
01:09:47,560 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 3: helping Keith help people. I didn't realize all these other

1132
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 3: things he was doing.

1133
01:09:53,040 --> 01:09:56,200
Speaker 1: And we'll never know if that's if that's true or not.

1134
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: We'll never know, But like, but I think it is

1135
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 1: important to to start changing how we think about people

1136
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 1: who have been brainwashed because you, like I said, like you,

1137
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 1: you you create, they create a new identity for you

1138
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: that you would never have created for yourself. And you

1139
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: people do things that they would have never believe they're

1140
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: capable of, as you did, mom.

1141
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:21,839
Speaker 3: Right, and it's traumatic brain manipulation.

1142
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: Right exactly. I'd like to take this opportunity to make

1143
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 1: fun of Chad and where he is now great.

1144
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:30,879
Speaker 3: Would you like to bear your testimony.

1145
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 1: I'd like to bear my testimony, but I know that

1146
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:37,600
Speaker 1: Chad is not a prophet. He has a website that

1147
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 1: we will not give to you guys because we don't

1148
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: want to. Let's just say one of his messages is

1149
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 1: UH to end human trafficking. Oh within one week. Wow.

1150
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,080
Speaker 1: The government just needs to listen to his plan and

1151
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 1: human trafficking will be over. He is an advocate for

1152
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: victims of human traffick.

1153
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 3: Why didn't you know it?

1154
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:07,839
Speaker 1: This website's wild.

1155
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 3: Well, if you're okay, if you come out of a culture,

1156
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,599
Speaker 3: if you know somebody come out that has come out

1157
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 3: of a cult, I do recommend you get involved in

1158
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 3: a support group, and there are some on Facebook, and

1159
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 3: I run a couple, and I think it's important to

1160
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 3: take what happened to you and turn it into something positive.

1161
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:31,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what you've done. I remember, before

1162
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 1: you started really talking about it, it was such a

1163
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: source of fear for you, and it was something that

1164
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 1: you didn't even want to touch. We couldn't talk about

1165
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 1: it at all. It was just too big for you.

1166
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: It was too hard, and understandably, what you went through

1167
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: was so traumatic, you know, I think that would be

1168
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: true for anyone. And then once you started reshaping your

1169
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 1: own narrative and reclaiming your story and like accepting that

1170
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 1: it had happened and finding ways to interpret it. That

1171
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 1: that helped your life. You got so much better. I

1172
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: have observed you grow so much, so much, So don't

1173
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 1: be afraid of telling your story. Guys.

1174
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 2: Amen, Well, thank you for coming Wami. Where can they

1175
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:15,120
Speaker 2: find you on social media?

1176
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 3: Yeah? I have. My charity is called Voices for Dignity.

1177
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 3: I love that Voices for Dignity dot com and I'm

1178
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 3: Christine Marie Katis k A t as on Instagram.

1179
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:30,639
Speaker 1: So one of the things Megan and I talked about

1180
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:34,040
Speaker 1: before we started this podcast was that she is kind

1181
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 1: of susceptible to every cult and so, Megan, would you

1182
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 1: follow this leader? Would you join this group?

1183
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to go no on this one, just

1184
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 2: because I think that he would.

1185
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just he's not for me. No specific enough.

1186
01:12:55,320 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 2: Glitz, not enough glamour, not enough you know one and

1187
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:02,280
Speaker 2: running around in the woods.

1188
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: Good glad, I got that covered all right. You can

1189
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:09,160
Speaker 1: find me Lola on Instagram at Ula Lola.

1190
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 4: Oh oh h l A l O l A.

1191
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 1: You can just find me at Megan Granger m E

1192
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 1: A J A j R A.

1193
01:13:16,240 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 4: I N g e R.

1194
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: All Right, guys, thanks for listening. We just want you

1195
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 1: to remember one thing, and that

1196
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 2: Is follow your gut, watch out for red flats, and

1197
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 2: never ever trust me Y