1 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: And Daniel, I've got a tough question for you. I 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,079 Speaker 1: love those, Well you might not like this one. I 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: don't know. Bring it on all right? Would you prefer 4 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: that we a never find life outside of Earth? Or 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: be we find ailing life but it's just tiny little microbes? 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: Oh man, you mean like we find aliens, but I 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: don't get to ask them any physics questions unless you 8 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: speak microbe. No. I mean you can ask, but I'm 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: not sure that microbes will reply. Oh that's such a 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: nightmare scenario. But even worse, what if alien physicists come 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: here and find us, but we just seemed like microbes 12 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: to them? Oh man, they might not even bother to 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: ask us physics questions? How dare they? Hi? I'm orhammy 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: cartoon is and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. 15 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: I'm a particle physicist, and if the aliens come, I 16 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: demand an audience with them, even if they're microbes. Hey, 17 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: my wife is a microbiologist, so I think I've learned 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,400 Speaker 1: to speak microbe a little bit. It might be funny 19 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: of our first contact with Aidian life is that we 20 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:27,279 Speaker 1: accidentally breathe them and then kill them with our immune system. 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 1: That's right. Maybe they'd be inside us, right, we catch 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: some alien disease. I think I've seen that movie. But 23 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: welcome to our podcast. Daniel and Jorge explain the university 24 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio, in which we take you 25 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: on a tour of everything that's amazing and beautiful and 26 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: squishy and dangerous in this universe and try to explain 27 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: it all to you or squishy and dangerous at the 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: same time and amazing and bonkers. The universe is bizarre. 29 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: It's stranger than fiction, and what we discover out there 30 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: is always weirder than what we imagine. That's right. And 31 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 1: it's also really big universe. And so a big question 32 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: for us and for everyone is are we alone in 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: the universe and this huge giant cosmos? Are we the 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: only sentient life out there? Or are there other living 35 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 1: things out there in this solar system or in this galaxy? 36 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: That's right, because we want to know. Are we the 37 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: only ones thinking these questions? Are we the only ones 38 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how this universe works, why we're here, 39 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: what we're supposed to do with our lives? And should 40 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: we get out of bed in the morning? Are we 41 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: the only ones? Are there other people out there who 42 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: have maybe made significant advances, and would you know, give 43 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: us a clue that would be fun. Well, to be honest, Daniel, 44 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: I record from my bed, so literally, I don't have 45 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: to get up ever. Well, maybe you answered the question, Joge, 46 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: but not everybody else out there has figured it out 47 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: for themselves. And you know, this is a question that 48 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: when we think about we wonder sometimes cosmically, like are 49 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: there alien civilizations and minds out there, deep deep far 50 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: away in space? But it's also a question we can 51 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: ask about our own neighborhood. Yeah, because you know, I 52 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: feel like most science fiction movies assume that when we 53 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: find alien life, it's you know, from a galaxy far 54 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: far away, or you know, maybe from another part of 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: the galaxy or some our way out there in space. 56 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,679 Speaker 1: But maybe, you know, there's a question of whether or 57 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: not life could also be here in our own backyard, 58 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: in our own solar system. Yeah. And I think historically 59 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: it's a fascinating question because a long time ago, hundreds 60 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: of years ago, we didn't know the answer to that question. 61 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: People wondered, you know, is their life on Mars. And 62 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: then more recently, like a hundred years ago, fifty years ago, 63 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: it seemed to be sort of settled that there wasn't 64 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: a place in the Solar system where we could find 65 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: intelligent life or life at all. But then recently I 66 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: think the question has changed again and now we have 67 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: a new perspective on life in our own backyard. Heard. 68 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: So today on the podcast, we'll be asking the question, 69 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: what's the most likely place in the Solar system to 70 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: find life other than of course here on Earth? And um, 71 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: I guess not Twitter. Twitter wouldn't be a Daniel not 72 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: if we're talking about intelligent life. Yeah, we'll be tackling 73 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: this question of whether or not and air would we 74 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: most likely find life in our own solar system? And 75 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: so we have a special treat for you guys here today. 76 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: We have a guest today to help us answer this 77 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: question and to talk about the possible places in our 78 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: solar system that we can find life. She's the guest 79 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: of the podcast Creature Features, which you can also find 80 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you listen 81 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: to podcasts, and so welcome Katie Golden. Hey, guys, thank 82 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: you so much for having me. Thanks very much for 83 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 1: being a guest on our podcast. Yeah, I was a 84 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: guest on Creature Features last week or so, and I 85 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: had a blast talking to Katie about irradiating animals or 86 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: animals that survive I radiation. No animals were intentionally irradiated 87 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: for that podcast. I was just gonna ask if you 88 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: can have Peter knocking on our podcast doors. You know, 89 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: although we did, of course create our own radiation. You know, 90 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: the sound waves you are hearing in your ear right 91 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: now are a form of non ionizing, non damaging intellectual 92 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: radiation NERD radiation, pure NERD radiation. It'll make your brain grow. Yeah, 93 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: grows your brain case. O Katie, you're you have a 94 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: biology background rate? Yeah. So I actually studied both psychology 95 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: and biology at Harvard as an undergrad, and after that 96 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: I went into the various fields of both, uh, science 97 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,719 Speaker 1: education and comedy, a natural mix science comedy or science 98 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: education kind of plus comedy, science education plus comedy. The 99 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: comedy thing came after the science education because I think 100 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: I having to do a bunch of learning modules about 101 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: all these diseases and stuff. I was like, you know, 102 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: I need a little comedy in my life. Nothing sence disease. 103 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: Like That's what I did. When I would I would 104 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: do these educational animations for pharmaceutical researchers. And I would say, 105 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: but you know what the best medicine is laughter? Yeah, 106 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: for sure, for sure. Uh. And so Katie, that's kind 107 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: of what your podcast is about. And you talk about 108 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: biology and creatures and but you also make sing comedians 109 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: and lot of funny stuff. You want to tell us 110 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: a little bit about it. Yeah, So it's called Creature Feature, 111 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: And I like to explore what is it like to 112 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: be an animal? And I think it's it's a lot 113 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: easier to relate to animals when you think about it 114 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,119 Speaker 1: from a human lens. So it's fun to look at 115 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: all this huge variety and great diversity of animal behaviors 116 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: and kind of try to imagine yourself as that animal, 117 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: Like imagine the rat that gets infected with Toxoplasma gondhai 118 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: and how it would be to suddenly be attracted to 119 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: a cat, your most dreaded of predators. And nature is 120 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: so full of incredible behaviors that there's no there's no 121 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: better way to experience it than to imagine what it's 122 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: like to be those animals and dive right in. Those 123 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 1: are some deep questions, you know, what is it like 124 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: to be a bat? What is it like to be 125 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: attracted to a cat? I mean, I don't know that 126 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: anybody's ever going to answer those questions. I thought you 127 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: were going to rhyme that, Daniel, I don't know anything 128 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: about that. That's Doctor SEUs right there. That's what we 129 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: should make comedy science and Dr SEUs all at the 130 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: same time, comedy science and children's education. That sounds like 131 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: a great mixture. Horry, we should do that sometimes. Let's 132 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: get on it, Daniel. Cool. So, Katie, we're attacking today 133 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: the question of whether there could be life in our 134 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: solar system, and if there could, where might we find it? 135 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 1: And so we're so glad to have it here as 136 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: a Sartain biology guide. As we talked about life and 137 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: what it needs and where it can possibly thrive. But 138 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: as usual, we sort of like to go out there 139 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: and ask people what they think of this subject. And 140 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: so Daniel went out there and he asked people on 141 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: the internet what they thought was the most likely place 142 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: in the solar system to find life. That's right, And 143 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: so I got these questions answered from people on the internet. 144 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: Now I assume there are people, some of them may 145 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: well be aliens, that have slipped their way into human society, 146 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: trying to influence the direction of human thought. But so 147 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: I can't attest. Maybe they're irradiated animals. Could they be 148 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: irradiated birds from cheer Noble? They could be, as they 149 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: very well could be. So I cannot attest to their 150 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: actual humanists. But I think you'll hear them quite interesting answers. 151 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: Here's what people have to say. It depends what we 152 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: define life. There's a frozen moon of Jupiter. I think 153 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: probably proper conditions water I would say in Mars, or 154 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: maybe some of them June moons of Jupiter, probably by 155 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: looking in the mirror outside of Earth, I would say 156 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: Mars places where we have water and some kind of 157 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: reasonable temperature in the clouds on Venis. I think there's 158 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: weird forms of life everywhere. I know that Jupiter has 159 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: a lot of moons, and one of them, europa Is. 160 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: It's said that there's like a lot of ice on 161 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: that moon. And I read an article recently and it's 162 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: some scientists are proposing or describing potential water that's like 163 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: spewing out into space one of jupiter moons. I was thinking, 164 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: Iowa for a minute, they're but then realized that you 165 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: really don't want to live on Ohio. I will say Titan, 166 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: which is a moon of Saturn. All right, Katie, what 167 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: did you think of these answers from people or birds? 168 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: These are very smart, guess is whether they come from 169 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: people or birds. I think that people have the right 170 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: idea that you want water and the right temperature and 171 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: conditions for that water to both be warm enough to 172 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: actually be flowing water and then also have enough sort 173 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: of like chemistry going on for there to be life. 174 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: But I think that's a really although I'm not it's 175 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: interesting that in the clouds on Venus answer I thought 176 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: was very intriguing. I'm I don't know too much about 177 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: the chemistry of the clouds on Venus, but that that 178 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: seems like an interesting answer. Yeah, we have some smart listeners. Right. 179 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: Congratulations listeners, you just got an A plus on your 180 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: biology tests. All right, well, let's just jump into this 181 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: topic here, and so if you guys can answer me 182 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: for me this first question, which is what what are 183 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: the conditions that you need for life? You know a 184 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: lot of people sort of talk about needing water, and 185 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 1: you know, nobody said that the life could be in 186 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: the sun. Although that's an interesting idea, So step us 187 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: through here. What do you think are the what are 188 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: the basic things that life needs another to exist and 189 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: to thrive? Well, you know, as usual. I think we've 190 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: got to take a digression even before we get to 191 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: that interesting question, because the necessary question to ask first 192 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: is like what do we even mean by life? Like 193 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: life as we know it, or like any kind of 194 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: life at all? So I thought maybe we could first 195 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: ask Katie, like, what does it even mean, you know, 196 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: life as we know? How you define life? Yeah, this 197 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: is actually the question I think of first when when 198 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: you ask what's the requirement for life? Is? What? What 199 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: even is life? And this is actually a much trickier 200 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: question than it seems. It's not just kind of a 201 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: hippie question to ask. It's something that is tricky for 202 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: biologists to answer because when you come up with criteria 203 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: for what life is, it seems to necessarily cover everything 204 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: that does seem alive. So you could maybe come up 205 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: with a list like, say, okay, to be alive, you 206 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: have to respond to stimuli. You have to be able 207 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: to grow, reproduce, and have offspring pass on traits to offspring. 208 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: You have to be complex, you have to seek homeostasis, 209 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: hold on a second, respond to stimuli. Does that mean 210 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: if you don't answer your emails, you're not alive? That's 211 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: what I assume. I think it means you're truly alive. 212 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: You're living more than anyone else. I think you correctly 213 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: understood that. To be a subtweet to you, Yes, so 214 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: you you have to also grow, reproduce, and have offspring 215 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 1: pass on traits to offspring. You have to be complex. 216 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it's that you seek out homeostasis or equilibrium, 217 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,839 Speaker 1: or maybe it's that you're built with cells. But even 218 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: this criteria doesn't really seem to be satisfactories. So a 219 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: few examples. Crystals take energy to grow, they reproduce, they 220 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: even respond to stimuli. If you change their environment, they 221 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: will grow in a different way. They will respond to 222 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:15,679 Speaker 1: it by altering their growth. Does that mean that crystals 223 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: are alive? And you might argue like, well, no, they 224 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: don't have a nervous system, but neither do plants. And 225 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: then you might say like, well, then they need to 226 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: be built with cells. But then well, viruses aren't a cell. 227 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: Are our viruses alive? Are they not alive? So it's 228 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: it's a very complicated question, and it's not one that 229 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: I think we have a strictly neat and tidy little 230 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: answer to. And why is that? Why is it so 231 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: hard to answer? Is it because they're just like different 232 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, sort of religious groups arguing this thing or 233 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: that thing, or is it one of these things where 234 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: the distinction is artificial, whether it's sort of like a 235 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 1: spectrum of different ways to be in the universe and 236 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: calling some things alive and some things not alive as 237 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: an artificial distinction. I think it's the latter. Mostly. It 238 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: seems to be less that there are these very specific 239 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: ideas in biology of like, well, I think life has 240 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: to be you have to be green if you're alive. 241 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: Only frogs are alive, Like I think it's it's just hard. 242 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: Like basically, once we get to okay, so our viruses 243 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: are alive, like they they are able to replicate, reproduce, 244 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: but they require a living cell. So they could be 245 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: are they like a parasite that's alive or are they 246 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: not life because they can't exist on their own. But 247 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: we also have plenty of clear you know, animals, you 248 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: carryotes that are alive by any definition, who are parasites 249 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: and who require other organisms to live. I mean, you 250 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: could even say, like humans require other humans to live. 251 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: So you know, to say that a virus isn't alive 252 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: just because it requires a living cell to replicate and 253 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: to extract energy is kind of an odd distinction. So 254 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: I think it is. It does at a certain point 255 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: become hard to make that cut off, as with many 256 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: categories in biological science. Yeah, and we're also kind of 257 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: dependent on other organisms to like, our guts are full 258 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: of bacteria and viruses and we kind of depend on critically, 259 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: right exactly. Yeah, we we have a lot of gut 260 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: bacteria that we actually have to develop soon after we're 261 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: born to be able to digest things. And we actually 262 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: the earliest forms of life were a symbiotic relationship, probably 263 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: between these really early cells and the mitochondria, which may 264 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: have been an entirely different organism that these early cells 265 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: just kind of absorbed and formed this partnership. And now 266 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: mitochondria are, as everyone learned, you know, the powerhouse of 267 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: the cells, the things that make most life on Earth possible. Well, 268 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: I guess the conclusion is, no matter what we discover out, 269 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: their biologists will argue about it. Yes, it's a lively 270 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 1: debate about what it means to be alive. All right. Well, 271 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because all these is just sort 272 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: of our discussions and talking points about life as we 273 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: know it. But there's also kind of the question of 274 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: what if there's life out there in ways that are 275 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: that we don't know, you know, or can't even imagine 276 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, I mean, I think that's sort 277 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: of the role of like science fiction authors to be 278 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: creative and think out of the bounds and imagine different 279 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: ways to live life. And you know, I've been doing 280 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: some research in that area, by which I mean reading 281 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: science fiction novels, and you know, there's some crazy ideas 282 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: out there, you know, life on galactic time scales, you know, 283 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: where the constituent processes are, like gravitational processes inside a 284 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: galaxy to take millions of years, or life inside energy 285 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: flow of stars. It's like the galaxy could be sentient 286 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 1: in itself. Yeah, it's sort of could you know, very 287 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: slowly thinking, very deep thoughts. But I guess maybe for 288 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: our discussion, let's maybe talk about what are some of 289 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: the basic things that we think right now, at least 290 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: for life as we know it that we need in 291 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: order to have life. We're going to talk about other planets, 292 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: and so I think, you know, as somebody mentioned, water 293 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 1: is kind of a pretty big requirement Katie. Yeah, and 294 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: specifically liquid water, because it is a very unique kind 295 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: of molecule or large group of molecules that are essential 296 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: for biochemical reactions to take place. It's it's basically like 297 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: it's the work bench and tools and you know, everything 298 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: you need to create these biochemical reactions that are requirement 299 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: for life, at least life on Earth or life as 300 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: we know it. And you also need chemicals plenty of 301 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: plenty of things like carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, obviously oxygen that 302 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: and then once you have water that is like this 303 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: giant work bench that facilitates all of these chemical reactions, 304 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: you can actually with some energy, turn these into proteins 305 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: and also energy currency that life needs, right, And then 306 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: that's when you get into things like DNA and sort 307 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: of complex molecules that can then sort of I think 308 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: the basic idea is to create something that can store information, Daniel, 309 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: Is that kind of how you would put it? Yeah? 310 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: I think you need some way to write down your 311 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: good ideas and pass them onto your offspring. And so 312 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: it's Katie was saying, you need like basically the lego 313 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: pieces of life, which are you know, these organic molecules, 314 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: and then you need a way to put them together. 315 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: But a question I have for you, Katie, is like, 316 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: why is liquid water so unique? I mean, why can't 317 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 1: you have all these lego pieces come together in like 318 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: liquid methane or liquid some other kind of organic molecule. Yeah, 319 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: that's a really good question. And water is just a 320 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: really unique molecule that it has these properties that kind 321 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: of it's like it's one of the most incredible fluids ever. 322 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: It's on the like a miracle liquid that can do 323 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: it all. So first, just kind of on the molecular level, 324 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: it is polar, so it has a positively charged side 325 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: and a negatively charged side. So it binds really well 326 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: to itself because it's polar, So that's why water kind 327 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: of sticks together. But it also can bind to other 328 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: polar molecules and this sticky cohesion which is great for 329 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: all sorts of things that life needs, so transporting nutrients, 330 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: transporting molecules that life needs. So like an example on 331 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: the macro level would be a plant being able to 332 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: transport nutrients from its roots into the plant, but that 333 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: also happens on the cellular level of nutrients being transferred 334 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: to cells. And also it's great at breaking apart substances 335 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: into these molecules because it has these strong bonds. Basically, 336 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: you can think of oxygen as having these two little 337 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: hands and it really wants to hold hands with each other, 338 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,880 Speaker 1: and then other molecules that are also willing to hold 339 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: hands with it. So if if something gets in the 340 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: way of it, like wanting to hold hands with itself 341 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: or with another polar molecule, it will actually break it apart, 342 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: like you know, like you won't get in the way 343 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: of me holding hands. And then that actually helps break 344 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: down molecules, and that's why it's called like the universal solvent, 345 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: and that can dissolve compounds which allows them to be 346 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: transported and used by cells. And basically it can also 347 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: I mean you can think of it as like lazy river, 348 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: but all of the inner tubes are like chemical molecules 349 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: like oxygen that are important to life, and this lazy 350 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: river water just like lets them be transported into cells 351 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: and then also breaks them apart so that they can 352 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: be actually used by cells. So life is a lazy river. 353 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: You're saying, yes, yes, that's that's how I approach life. Yeah, 354 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: but what's in the lazy river of water? Water and 355 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: a little bit of RUMs, Yeah, rivers. I feel like, 356 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,479 Speaker 1: say you're gonna use water, You're not gonna use methane 357 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: or anything else. Crazy. It can't be solid water because 358 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: things don't flow, electricity doesn't conduct. Why can't you have 359 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: life which has a basis of like water vapor, like 360 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 1: steam based life. Why can't you get the same kind 361 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: of chemistry? I think it has to do with equilibrium 362 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: and the structure of cell membranes. So water inside of 363 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: cells actually plays this really important role, especially for cells 364 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: that have a membrane instead of a cell wall, so 365 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: it helps it maintain its shape without collapsing. So liquid 366 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: water has enough movement that it's relatively like it. It's 367 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: unlike frozen water, which is static and forms this like 368 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: crystalline structure. Liquid water has movement, but it's stable enough 369 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: that you can actually have basically like a little water 370 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: balloon which is the cell, and it does and explode 371 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: or or collapse. But with vapor, I think that's too chaotic. 372 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,160 Speaker 1: It can't achieve that kind of equilibrium and that pressure. 373 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: So you don't want a frozen river. And then you 374 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: don't want a crazy river. You want the lazy river, 375 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: which is right in the middle. You don't want whitewater rapids, right, 376 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: just a lazy river. All right, let's get into um, 377 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: how rare it is to find water out there and 378 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: these organic molecules, and also let's get into where in 379 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: our sources and we might find these things. But first 380 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. All right, we're talking to 381 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: Katie Golden from the podcast Creature Features. You can find 382 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: it on iHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. 383 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: And Katie, I'm talking to a little bit about water 384 00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 1: and the things that the life as we know it needs, 385 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: the organic materials like carbon, nitrogen. Uh. And so I 386 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: guess my question I have is how rare are these 387 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: in our solar system? Like is the Earth the only 388 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: place you can find water and in these basic building 389 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: blocks or are there a lot of places in this 390 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: solar system where you might find these I mean, as 391 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: far as I know, it is tough to find liquid 392 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: water because we both have water on our planet, but 393 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: we're also close enough to the Sun where we are 394 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: nice and warm enough to have that liquid water. But 395 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: I think recently we're we're finding that there may be 396 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 1: liquid water, especially not necessarily on planets, although there's some 397 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: it seems like maybe there's some recent discoveries like maybe 398 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: we know Mars has frozen water, but we're not sure 399 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: whether any of that water is actually a liquid And 400 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: then also we may have some moons right that could 401 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: have some liquid water. I think there's sort of too 402 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: fascinating things to understand. They're one is like that water 403 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: itself as a substance is not rare at all in 404 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: our Solar system, Like in the form of ice. There 405 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: are huge stores. They're like enormous asteroids that are basically 406 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: just ice balls, and some of those planets out there, Neptune, 407 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: they're referred to as ice giants. So we have like 408 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: huge deposits of the actual chemical for water. Then the 409 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: second part is like does it exist in liquid form anywhere? 410 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: And here this is sort of fascinating because if you 411 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: just look at the surfaces of other planets, you don't 412 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 1: see oceans, right, no oceans of water except here on Earth. 413 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: And so to have liquid water, you need the water 414 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: which is everywhere but then you also need a heat source. 415 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: And so, as Katie said, recently, people have been thinking 416 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: about like having underground liquid water, which is a really 417 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: fascinating way for little creaters to potentially evolved. Okay, so 418 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: water is not that rare in our Solar system. And 419 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: by the way, I really want to see that space 420 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: comedy movie ice Balls sounds and so besides the Earth, 421 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: I think, um, you know, there's no maybe oceans liquid 422 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: oceans out there but that you can see on the 423 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: surface of other planets or moons. But there might be 424 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 1: underground oceans out there, right, and several moons and places 425 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: in the Solar System. So maybe Daniel, you want to 426 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: step us through some of these fun places. Yeah. One 427 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: of my favorite is Europa. This is a moon of Jupiter, 428 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: and it's amazing because if you look at its surface, 429 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: it's totally frozen. It's just like it's an ice crust, right, 430 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: It's like super thick ice ball. But the surface of 431 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 1: itself is very smooth. And anytime you see something in 432 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: the Solar System that's smooth, that means that it's new, 433 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: it's fresh. Because things in the Solar System are always 434 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: getting impacted by rocks and meteors and whatever. So if 435 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: it's smooth, it means it's fresh, it's newly formed, sort 436 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: of on the Solar System time scales. And they've done 437 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: a bunch of fly bys to try to understand what's 438 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: going on in Europa, and they discovered that it's covered 439 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: in a thick crust of it's about a hundred kilometers thick, 440 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: maybe thinner. And they've probed the inside of this moon. 441 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: This is incredible science and they're pretty sure that under 442 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: that ice crust is liquid water. So when you have 443 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: a planet that is maybe kind of far from the Sun, 444 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: so like the surface of the planet is frozen, how 445 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: are you getting that liquid water under this frozen surface? Potentially? Yeah, right, 446 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,239 Speaker 1: you can't get the energy from the Sun, right, you 447 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: have an ice cube on the surface of Europa. It's 448 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: not gonna melt, right, It's gonna be frozen forever. And 449 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: so the heat comes from underneath, from the core of Europa, 450 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: and the heat comes from Jupiter. Actually, because Jupiter is 451 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: dumping energy into Europa using its gravitational field, it has 452 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: tidal forces, much the way that the Moon tugs on 453 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: the oceans of Earth. Jupiter is tugging on Europe. It's 454 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: squeezing it with its gravity, and that's squeezing creates a 455 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: lot of energy, keeps the insides of Europa sort of 456 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: fluid and hot, and so it's getting needed underneath, which 457 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: is why the the ocean is underneath the ice crust 458 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: on Europa. So it's sort of underground heat. Really, it's 459 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: not because it has you know, like Earth has a 460 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: molten cores, not because we have left overheated. It's like 461 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: it's all from the shaking that Jupiter gives Europa. Yeah, 462 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: it's all from the tidal fluxes there. Remember, these tidal 463 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: forces come about from the gravitational field. If you're further 464 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: from Jupiter, you feel less of a force, and if 465 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: you're closer to Jupiter, you feel more of a force. 466 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,960 Speaker 1: And so if you're big enough that one side of 467 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: you is feeling more of a force than the other 468 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: side of you, then effectively Jupiter is like pulling you apart. 469 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: And so as Europa spins, Jupiter is like squeezing different 470 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: parts of it, and that keeps it hot and fresh. 471 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 1: And so they think that that there's a huge ocean 472 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: under there. They think that under the ice of Europa 473 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: there is as much liquid water as two to three 474 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: times all of Earth's oceans. That's incredible. But for life 475 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: to exist, it's not just liquid water that you need, right, 476 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: You need chemicals and need energy input. So do we 477 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: know what the chemical composition is in the water that 478 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: is fluid in Europa? We don't. We think that there's 479 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,360 Speaker 1: some salt in there. And they've done these measurements where 480 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: they measure the electrical conductivity of the ocean, Like, how 481 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: do you know if there's liquid water under a hundred 482 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: kilometers of ice? Right? You can't see it. And so 483 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: what they do is they see the impact on Jupiter's 484 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: magnetic field when Europa moves past it, and ice has 485 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: a different conductivity than liquid water, which is a different 486 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,719 Speaker 1: conductivity than salt water. So you can measure sort of 487 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: the phase of the water and how much salt there 488 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: is in there by measuring its electromagnetic properties, which is 489 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,160 Speaker 1: sort of an incredible piece of science. So we think 490 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: there's a little of salt in there, but we don't 491 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: know the answer to your really good question, which is 492 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: like are there the organic molecules we need? But we 493 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: do have an awesome plan for figuring it out. Are 494 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: we going to drill down. We're gonna send physicists over, 495 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: We're gonna send biologists. Katie, put on your helmet. You're 496 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: going to Europe. Let me get my drama. Mean, well, 497 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: it's sort of a two stage plan. The first one 498 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: is to just fly by because this surface of Europa 499 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: cracks furally often and the water shoots up into space. 500 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: And we've actually seen this from Earth using hubble, we 501 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: can see these things, these water volcanoes, these cryo geysers, 502 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: shooting the water out into space like up to a 503 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,440 Speaker 1: hundred or two hundred kilometers. So we're planning to send 504 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: something in. It's the Europa Clipper that will fly through 505 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: these guysers and sample when the water from Europa and 506 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,479 Speaker 1: see are there things living in there? Wow? I know, 507 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: is that's gonna be so exciting. That's I guess simultaneous 508 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: mind blowing there we'll imagine be there right? Are these 509 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: going to be unmanned? Because I feel like this would 510 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: be way more exciting than driving through a car wash 511 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: to be able to fly through a guys and and 512 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: do you one win to you know, brush away the 513 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: line you're trying to detect. I don't know if you're 514 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: flying through it and just like a fish lands on 515 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: your windshield. You're like, there it is an alien fish. 516 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: I guess there's life. That's sort of the fantasy. No. 517 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: Much more likely, of course, is that they just get 518 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: some like frozen bit of life. But it's you know, 519 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: that's also a fascinating question. Like say you had a 520 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: sample of water from underneath Europe that was spewed out 521 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: into space, How would you tell if there's life in there? 522 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: I guess that's a question for you can like what 523 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: experiments would you do on this tea spoon of water 524 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: from Europa to tell me whether there was life in there. 525 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: One of the things that you would be looking for 526 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: would be some sort of organized structure of molecules. So 527 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: it's I mean, obviously you could potentially identify if you 528 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: had unicellular or multicellular life forms. You would, you know, 529 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 1: take a look at the samples under a microscope and 530 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: check it out. But if you want to see if 531 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: it has if it is starting to form life, or isn't, 532 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: like has the capability of forming life, you would probably 533 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: want to see what molecules it has in there, and 534 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: if it's able to form any of these protein chains 535 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: that are so important, and amino acid chains because we 536 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: think that probably early on in the development of life 537 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: r n A chains, So that's similar to DNA, but 538 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: it's just a single strand of amino acids we're able 539 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: to form, and that is basically how you, like you 540 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,520 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, you need that ability to record data and 541 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: pass it on in order to create complex life. And 542 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: so if we saw any evidence of these these chains forming, 543 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: I think that would be a really positive indicator that 544 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: you know, there could be life or it has the 545 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: possibility of life. And obviously if we found a big 546 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: old alien fish that would be that would be pretty positive, 547 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: but far more likely we wouldn't find any large life 548 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: forms just probabilistically in terms of it would more likely 549 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: be unicellular or maybe just like the beginnings of some 550 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: protein chains that could eventually form life. Really you don't 551 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: think it's likely, you know, that's kind of where the 552 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: science falls, is that there's a probability and and it's 553 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: it's more likely than not that it will be microscopic 554 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: and not a big fish. I think it's more about 555 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: just the time scale, right, like, because I think it's 556 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: very likely that there is life in the universe, but 557 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: for our like very short human time to be able 558 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: to intersect with other complex life, especially this close by, 559 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: when we know that complex life has been around much 560 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: less time than these these sort of archaic unite cellular organisms, 561 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: small organisms have been around. So it's just it's more 562 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: in terms of, like, you know, we have this little 563 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: short flight through the universe US humans, and then for 564 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,720 Speaker 1: our our little flash in the pan time to intersect 565 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: with another flash in the pan time of other complex life, 566 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: it would be very lucky. I would say it's not impossible. 567 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: I just think that we would be incredibly lucky to 568 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: find complex life. But I think it's I think that 569 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: in terms of whether it exists somewhere, even if we 570 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: don't find it, I think it's almost inevitable that there 571 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: is some life out there. Just the question is are 572 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: we going to be lucky enough to you know, have 573 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: a have a missed meeting on on intergalactic craigslist like 574 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: this connection. I think that's a good point, and I 575 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: mostly agree, But I think also it's important to remember 576 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,200 Speaker 1: that we just really don't know because everything we're basing 577 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: this off of is one example, which is that on Earth, 578 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: life form pretty quickly, and then complex life took a 579 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: long time, as you say, and then intelligent life, you know, 580 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: still has yet to form here on Earth, and and 581 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: so we don't know how long it will take to 582 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: form on another planet, but we don't know necessarily that 583 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: it will follow the pattern here on Earth. Right, maybe 584 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: Earth was unlucky. It took us unusually long to make 585 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 1: complex life. So we gotta keep an open mind and 586 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: and believe in this space fish man, I mean, especially 587 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: if it's not like life on Earth, right, Like, if 588 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: we have instead of it being carbon based, like being 589 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: silicon based life, it may function entirely differently, have a 590 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: totally different, much longer kind of time scale in terms 591 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: of how it evolves and develops. Yeah, but to get 592 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: back to the original question, like are there organic molecules 593 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: on Europa? We don't actually know. We could figure it 594 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: out by flying something through these geysers, But in general, 595 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: I think we do have a sense that there are 596 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: organic molecules out there. It's not like it's super rare 597 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: to find complex organic molecules in comments or in meteors, 598 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: so probably there's a lot of them out there. Do 599 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: you do you agree with that sentiment? Katie, Oh, absolutely, Yeah, 600 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: I think finding the building blocks for life, it makes 601 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: sense that it would exist. It's I think the reason 602 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: that we don't have life on every asteroid and every 603 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: planet that has these these complex molecules is that you 604 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: need a lot of other conditions to be met as well. 605 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: Like in terms of how life formed on Earth, it 606 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: was this very potentially kind of complex interplay of having 607 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: the right organic molecules, having just the right amount of 608 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: water and just the right amount of energy, and maybe 609 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,399 Speaker 1: even like so you guys know, the sort of primordial 610 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: soup hypothesis. Yeah, I had some of this morning for sure. 611 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: That's definitely the very back of your free Jimmy. I 612 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: think there's done life growing there as well, extra chunky. Yeah, 613 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: but yeah, there's other ideas about how life could have formed, 614 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: and it's not like the idea that it just kind 615 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: of formed in a big boiling pot of stew is 616 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: a little bit hard to believe because once you start 617 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: to get a complex chain of amino acids or protein 618 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: to form and you have this chaotic environment, it could 619 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: just get blasted apart by other molecules before it has 620 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: a chance to form these complex structures. So there's actually 621 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: a theory called the primordial soup and sandwich. I kind 622 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: of like the term primordial bok Leva better because it's 623 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: basically these thin sheets of mica that like are like 624 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 1: these layers of a pastry or or if you want 625 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: layers of a sandwich, and in between these sheets of mica, 626 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: which is a type of thin sheeting mineral that then 627 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: you could get these organic compounds to kind of like 628 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: have these like little safe havens, these little hidy holes, 629 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: to be able to start forming these complex structure while 630 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: also having access to enough chemicals and enough water and 631 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,760 Speaker 1: enough energy to actually have these biochemical processes take place. 632 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: I feel like we should just go for it and 633 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: call it the primordial big neck, the primordial club's handling. 634 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 1: This is what this is what happens when you charge 635 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: your signs. Just before, so, to wrap up on Europa, Katie, 636 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,479 Speaker 1: let me just ask you a really quick question. Say 637 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 1: we have the organic molecules and we have energy source 638 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: that's heating this liquid water. What do you think do 639 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: you think there is microbial life right now in the 640 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:38,239 Speaker 1: oceans of Europa. I want there to be, so I 641 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: would say yes, just because I'm very optimistic. I think 642 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: if we will it, it will happen. Yes, exactly, it's 643 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 1: you're officially in I think it's I mean, I think 644 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: it's almost basically inevitable that there's alien life somewhere, whether 645 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: it's on Europa, I think it it would be lucky 646 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: for it to be there, But it seems like it's very, 647 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: very possible, and I'm so excited for discoveries to be 648 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: made from there. Like I hope that we are able 649 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: to make some of these discoveries in my lifetime because 650 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 1: that would be so exciting. But yeah, I think there's 651 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: a definitely good chance that we have some some form 652 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,919 Speaker 1: of life, especially if we see that all of these 653 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,200 Speaker 1: basic requirements are met. Cool. Well, I'm glad we're optimistic, 654 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: and and we'll send you the our official Daniel and 655 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: Jorge explain the universe alien button commemorative souvenir. Alright, well, right, 656 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 1: let's get into other places where there could be life 657 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: in our solar system and whether or not that is 658 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: even remotely possible. But first let's take another quick break. Alright, 659 00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 1: we're talking to Katie Golden, host of the podcast Creature. 660 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: Feature is about life and other places in our Solar System, 661 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: and so we talked about Europa. Now Daniel did maybe 662 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: give us a quick rundown of maybe other places in 663 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: the Solar System where we can find life and water 664 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 1: and moleculars. Well, the sort of three categories in general, 665 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: One is like moons of really big planets, and then 666 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: there are dwarf planets, and then there are like actual 667 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: straight up possibility for life on planets in the Solar System. 668 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: And so in the moon category, of course we had 669 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 1: Europa that's maybe number one, But then there are other contenders. 670 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: There's Titan. Titan is the largest moon of Saturn. It 671 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: itself is actually bigger than Mercury. So like, what, Yeah, 672 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: if I was a Titan booster, I'd be like, how 673 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: come I'm called the moon and Mercury is a planet? 674 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: And so there's water there too. Well we don't know, 675 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: but we think so. And Titan it's fascinating because it 676 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: has an atmosphere. It has a nitrogen atmosphere. You know 677 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: on Earth is a lot of nitrogen, and they're active 678 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 1: rivers and lakes and oceans on the surface of Titan. 679 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: Problem is they're not the oceans of water. Their oceans 680 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: of like methane and ethane, which is why I was 681 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: asking Katie earlier about whether you could have life in 682 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: like methane oceans. But it's sort of awesome because there's activity, 683 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's like the surface of the planet has 684 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: motion on, it has stuff going on. But just like Europa, 685 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: we think that underneath those oceans is a shell of ice, 686 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: and underneath that is probably liquid water. So again we 687 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: have subsurface oceans that are probably under the ice on Titan. 688 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: I don't know, a sea of methane that sounds like 689 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: more like a smelly river more than a lazy river. 690 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,760 Speaker 1: Have you been in a lazy river recently? They're mostly 691 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: smelling methane there, I'm sure. All right, Well, what are 692 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: some other places? Um, So there might be moons that 693 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: have also kind of like Europa, kind of a shell 694 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: and an underground ocean. But you're saying there might be 695 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: other kinds of places. Yeah, So Ganymede is another moon 696 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 1: like that, an icy crust, probably with a big ocean underneath. 697 00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: And you know, you add all of these up and 698 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: it tells you that most of the liquid water in 699 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: the Solar System is probably not on Earth, which is 700 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: kind of mind blowing because until recently we thought it 701 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,919 Speaker 1: might be the only place. But there are other things 702 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,000 Speaker 1: that are not moons. Like one of my favorite places 703 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 1: in the Solar System is this dwarf planet called Series. 704 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 1: And it's not a TV series, it's you knows, of all, 705 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: we have a dwarf planet in our Solar system. Oh yeah, 706 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: I mean Pluto is now a dwarf planet, right it 707 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,520 Speaker 1: got demoded. And there are others. There's an element of 708 00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter where some of 709 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: the chunks are big enough that they could called dwarf 710 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,360 Speaker 1: planets and Series. If you remember, we saw this weird 711 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 1: feature on it a couple of years ago. They took 712 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,760 Speaker 1: a picture of it and it looked like a pyramid, 713 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: and there was a moment there when I thought, this 714 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 1: is like the opening act of every science fiction novel. 715 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: You know, somebody sees a pyramid and an alien planet 716 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: and they go, what Hereles soundtrack from two thousand and one, Well, 717 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,120 Speaker 1: this planet is amazing because it's twenty five percent water. 718 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,280 Speaker 1: Like this dwarf planet is not tiny. It's a big 719 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: chunk of stuff and it's one fourth water. You know, 720 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,320 Speaker 1: Earth is like a tiny fraction of Earth is water 721 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: in comparison, so this thing is basically a big or 722 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: liquid well again, it's a frozen crust, but we think 723 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: that underneath there could be a salty ocean. So it's 724 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: most of the oceans in the Solar system turned out 725 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: to be under frozen ice crusts, and this is another 726 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: place where we can have the same situation. And it 727 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,880 Speaker 1: has a pyramid, so that's that's really And it turns 728 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,720 Speaker 1: out there's this really shiny feature and it's this pyramid 729 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: shaped It looked really geometrical, but then you know, just 730 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: like the face on Mars and other fascinating features, when 731 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: you zoomed in and you've got better pictures from other angles, 732 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,319 Speaker 1: it looked just like a word shaped rock. So it 733 00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: turns out probably not a signal from the aliens, but 734 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 1: another place in the Solar system where you have a 735 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: lot of organic molecules and probably liquid water. So it's 736 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,600 Speaker 1: a great place to get started. I mean, if you're 737 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: a young microbe you're looking to start our family, you know, 738 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,360 Speaker 1: this place is everything you're looking for if your life 739 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: try series, Welcome to series your new home. That's right, 740 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: And then you've got another couple of small moons like 741 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 1: Callisto and in slats which I don't even know if 742 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: are you supposed to pronounce in slatist like you know, 743 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,080 Speaker 1: like um something you would see on the menu to 744 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: tak area is. I don't know, but I guess my 745 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,880 Speaker 1: question for you guys is you know a lot of 746 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: these moons. It seems like Earth is the only place 747 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: that you can see from space liquid ocean, and so 748 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 1: a lot of these places have like underground oceans, and 749 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: that's how maybe life could be there. But could life 750 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: exist in an underground ocean, you know, without you know, 751 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: sunlight or you know some sort of you know, heat 752 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: and wind and things like that. Yeah, I mean absolutely, 753 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: we see it on our own planet right where we 754 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: have deep sea life and we don't necessarily life doesn't 755 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,879 Speaker 1: necessarily need sunlight to provide it with energy as long 756 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: as it's getting some kind of energy. So we see 757 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 1: life around the clustered around these deep sea events that 758 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: are spewing energy and nutrients down at the bottom of 759 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 1: the ocean where there's no light and life drives there. 760 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: And so you could definitely have a planet that is 761 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: not getting any sunlight on its oceans. But if they 762 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: have some form of energy down in like near the 763 00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,839 Speaker 1: core of the planet. You know, maybe these deep see 764 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: events spewing some heat and and nutrients into these oceans. 765 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 1: You can absolutely have life. It sort of comes along 766 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: for free this source of energy because if you're asking 767 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: for liquid water, if you're starting from that requirement, then 768 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,560 Speaker 1: to make the water liquid to avoid it being iced, 769 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 1: you need some energy source, and that's either solar energy 770 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,239 Speaker 1: or you know, internal energy from tidal forces or from 771 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,799 Speaker 1: having a hot core or something. So if you have 772 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: liquid water, that by definition requires you have an energy 773 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: source for life to get start. Interesting, you just made 774 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: me think that maybe I wonder if there are aliens 775 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,719 Speaker 1: in the ocean of Europa having a podcast discussing whether 776 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: or not life could exist on surface water like they 777 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 1: have on Earth. Well, you know, another fascinating question is 778 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: if you are alien intelligent life that grew up under 779 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: an ocean, so you never saw the sky, right then 780 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: could you even imagine the vastness of the universe? What 781 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: is it like to drill through that for the first 782 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: time and stick your head out above the ocean and 783 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: see that there's a whole universe out there? What a 784 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 1: what a crazy sort of philosophical moment for those aliens, 785 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: do you think they may maybe they could have like telescopes. 786 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: Could you build a civilization with technology with telescopes that 787 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,160 Speaker 1: could see through the ice shell and so then maybe 788 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,879 Speaker 1: that's how they could know about the wider universe. It's 789 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: a hundred kilometers thick in a lot of places, so 790 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: that'd be a pretty impressive telescope. I think you'd have 791 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: to drill well. I wonder how they would evolve in 792 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: terms of sight and the use of light, especially if 793 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,200 Speaker 1: they're not getting light from the sun. So we do 794 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,359 Speaker 1: know that deep sea animals on Earth, while they don't 795 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,440 Speaker 1: get sunl they can have these biochemical processes that result 796 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: in bioluminescence, which then provides them light to see and 797 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: also light to potentially lure prey into their doom, like 798 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: with the deep sea angler fish. It's got that beautiful 799 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: bulb of bioluminescence that it uses to lure prey. But 800 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,240 Speaker 1: basically what that means is you could have a group 801 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 1: of life or a group of animals or no, I 802 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,680 Speaker 1: don't want to calm animals, but life whatever form it 803 00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,839 Speaker 1: may take, that doesn't get to see sunlight. But if 804 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: you have the right biochemical processes to create bioluminescence, they 805 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:41,279 Speaker 1: could potentially evolve eyes because then they can use that 806 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 1: bioluminescence to navigate and find prey or find mates. So 807 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a fascinating kind of idea of like, 808 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,840 Speaker 1: how would you evolve the ability to see if you 809 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,160 Speaker 1: don't have sunlight? That sounds like a great science fiction novel. 810 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to reading that. There's another possibility, which 811 00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,800 Speaker 1: is that life could have started out on the surface. 812 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: It would have been that the word liquid oceans in 813 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,120 Speaker 1: the Solar System, not on Earth, for example, on Mars, 814 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 1: and life evolved in those scenarios and now is underground. 815 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: So one of my favorite possibilities is Mars because as 816 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 1: listener as to podcasts, no, Mars doesn't have a magnetic field, 817 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,800 Speaker 1: it really doesn't have much atmosphere, so any water on 818 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 1: the surface of Mars will either just sublimate or freeze. 819 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:27,200 Speaker 1: But we do think that there is water again underground 820 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: on Mars. They detected on Mars a sub glacial lake. 821 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: It's like just two kilometers below the surface and it's 822 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 1: like twenty kilometers wide. So there's a stable body of 823 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 1: liquid water on Mars. And if a billion years ago 824 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,200 Speaker 1: there were the conditions for life on the surface, that 825 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,799 Speaker 1: it is possible that in that lake underground there are 826 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: you know, remnants of that archaic life still swimming around, right. 827 00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,879 Speaker 1: And there's even the theory that maybe life on Earth 828 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: came from Mars, like maybe a meteor hid Mars and 829 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: a chunk of water or rock or ice from there 830 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,280 Speaker 1: came to Earth with life, and that's how we have life. 831 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 1: It certainly would explain a lot about how weird people are, right, 832 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:11,200 Speaker 1: we're all Martians, all aliens, but wouldn't we be aliens 833 00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: to aliens? Nice? All right? Well, um, and I think 834 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: there's a couple other places that sound interesting, Tritton, even Venus, 835 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: Daniel can have maybe water or life. Yeah, And this 836 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,440 Speaker 1: is something that one of our listeners pointed out that 837 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,880 Speaker 1: the surface of Venus is crazy intense. It's you know, 838 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,319 Speaker 1: hundreds of degrees, it's covered with sulfuric acid. You do 839 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: not want to be alive on the surface of Venus. 840 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,759 Speaker 1: But and the pressure is really intense. There's like so 841 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: much atmosphere that you're getting instantly crushed. So it's not 842 00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,440 Speaker 1: a place that's very hospitable to life. But you go 843 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,480 Speaker 1: above the surface, like in the clouds, like fifty kilometers 844 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,720 Speaker 1: above the surface, then the pressure is lower. You're above 845 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,839 Speaker 1: the sulfuric acid clouds, and you might have life sort 846 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,200 Speaker 1: of floating in water droplets that far above the surface. 847 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 1: Does that sound plausible, Katie, to evolve life or create 848 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 1: life and in a cloud. I mean, if you have 849 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:09,319 Speaker 1: water droplets that are large enough to have tiny microbes 850 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: floating around in liquid water, then I think that is 851 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:17,279 Speaker 1: certainly possible. That's that's crazy to think about, like these 852 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 1: little tiny floating micro bioms of little water droplets. But yeah, 853 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,839 Speaker 1: I mean life can be so teeny tiny, it can 854 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 1: exist in a droplet of water. And we know that 855 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:31,400 Speaker 1: we can take a little drop of water, put it 856 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,719 Speaker 1: on a microscope slide and see a bunch of little 857 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: guys swim around in there. I've I've done that. I've 858 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,279 Speaker 1: looked at dinal flagelets. It's amazing how many of those 859 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,960 Speaker 1: guys you can cram into one little tiny drop of water. 860 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: So if you have water in clouds, I think it 861 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,799 Speaker 1: would have to be the right temperature, it would have 862 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,360 Speaker 1: to be stable enough to actually, you know, have large 863 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: enough droplets for enough life to be in. But yeah, 864 00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,920 Speaker 1: I think it's possible your whole entire specy, decent, civilization, 865 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,839 Speaker 1: and life could just exist in a water droplet. It's 866 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: kind of like a like a like a city in 867 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: a bottle to Yeah, and then you smash up against 868 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 1: another droplet and you've got all of a sudden new 869 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 1: neighbors or new roommates. Maybe to them, that's like two 870 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,399 Speaker 1: galaxies colliding, or the premise for a good reality show 871 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,280 Speaker 1: on Venus. Yeah, we'll call it iceballs to just because 872 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,920 Speaker 1: you know, I like the name. All right, Well, it 873 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,160 Speaker 1: sounds like the ingredients for life are out there for sure, 874 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,239 Speaker 1: like in other planets and moons of other planets in 875 00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,880 Speaker 1: our Solar system. I guess you know, um, maybe a 876 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: larger question that we can just wrap up here is, 877 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,799 Speaker 1: you know, what are the chances of life, Like we 878 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 1: have all the ingredients definitely for sure in our Solar system, 879 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,920 Speaker 1: is it likely? I know, we we optimistically think that 880 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,920 Speaker 1: there is probably life, But what does this sign say 881 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,160 Speaker 1: about the likelihood of their being life out there? Yeah? 882 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: I mean I think it is. I mean, you guys 883 00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 1: can speak more to the expansiveness of the universe, but 884 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: I think because we have so many chances and so 885 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:15,080 Speaker 1: much time that it's almost inevitable that there is going 886 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,399 Speaker 1: to be life somewhere else in the universe. I think 887 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,360 Speaker 1: the thing that is much more difficult is the timing 888 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,799 Speaker 1: of it, whether our time in the universe is going 889 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,759 Speaker 1: to overlap with life somewhere where we can measure it. 890 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,359 Speaker 1: So there could be life out there simultaneously with us 891 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,120 Speaker 1: in an area where we can't find it and can't 892 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,759 Speaker 1: measure it. There could be life somewhere right next door. 893 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,520 Speaker 1: But it's just it happened either before after our time here. 894 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 1: But yeah, there is there is a chance for sure 895 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,000 Speaker 1: that we are going to overlap with some form of life, 896 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:51,600 Speaker 1: especially if we loosen our definition of what life is, 897 00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 1: and it's not doesn't have to be some green little 898 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,479 Speaker 1: aliens with funny hats. I totally agree with what you said, 899 00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: and I think a lot about this question. You know, 900 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,080 Speaker 1: how do you go from the precursors to actually having life? 901 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: And I just wish that we understood the science of 902 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,720 Speaker 1: that better, that we could reproduce that in the lab 903 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,960 Speaker 1: or understand whether it's likely or unlikely, because we only 904 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,840 Speaker 1: really have this one experiment, and as you say, it 905 00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,440 Speaker 1: could be that life started many times on Earth and 906 00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:19,600 Speaker 1: didn't take hold, then once actually got a foothold and 907 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,560 Speaker 1: then spread and became us. We just don't know. So 908 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,360 Speaker 1: I did a little informal survey where I asked basically 909 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: all the biologists I know what they think about this question, 910 00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,960 Speaker 1: And the thing that strikes me is that they're all optimistic, 911 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,600 Speaker 1: like they think the way you do that, like life 912 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:38,080 Speaker 1: is probably inevitable. I don't know if that's they're biased 913 00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: just because they are alive, and so they're like pro life. 914 00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: They've got a probe being alive bias exactly pro prob 915 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 1: being alive, not pro life. That's a whole different philosophical discussion. 916 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,960 Speaker 1: But it makes me wonder, you know, why they all 917 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,880 Speaker 1: think that's true. We don't really have a solid scientific 918 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,320 Speaker 1: argument for the likelihood of life starting given these precursors, 919 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,480 Speaker 1: but everybody has this sense that it might be inevitable, 920 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,239 Speaker 1: or maybe they just wanted to be inevitable, because the 921 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,799 Speaker 1: alternative is scary that even with the precursors and our 922 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,560 Speaker 1: own solar system, we could be the only things alive. 923 00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,200 Speaker 1: But the answer is that we you know, we won't 924 00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,879 Speaker 1: know until we look, until we send these missions out 925 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,840 Speaker 1: to Europa and sample those cryo geysers. Until we drill 926 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,520 Speaker 1: down underneath the ice on some of these moons, until 927 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: we sample that lake on Mars, we won't actually know 928 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,120 Speaker 1: the answer. Until then, we're just you know, all informed 929 00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:32,520 Speaker 1: podcasters speculating wildly. I think also the fact that our 930 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 1: measly little planet has been capable of producing such incredible 931 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 1: complexity over what is kind of a short period of 932 00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:45,440 Speaker 1: time on the scale of the universe makes it really 933 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,560 Speaker 1: feel like that cannot be a fluke if you have 934 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 1: the necessary ingredients, and our little tiny Earth was able 935 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,640 Speaker 1: to do all of this in just a few billion years, Like, 936 00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,120 Speaker 1: it has to be happening elsewhere. How could we possibly 937 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:02,879 Speaker 1: be that special? I think is, and I think there's 938 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,800 Speaker 1: a certain logic to that, Like, how can we evolve 939 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:10,439 Speaker 1: this incredibly bio diverse planet with these ingredients and there 940 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,400 Speaker 1: not be some form of life elsewhere where they also 941 00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,919 Speaker 1: have similar ingredients? Yeah? How special can we be? Really? 942 00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,880 Speaker 1: I feel like life may be inevitable is kind of 943 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 1: like the optimists extrovert point of view, you know, I 944 00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,600 Speaker 1: wonder if introverts out there might look at it more 945 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:35,040 Speaker 1: as life is unavoidable. There's no escaping life. But either way, 946 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,200 Speaker 1: it sounds like, um, there's a lot to look forward 947 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,480 Speaker 1: to in terms of exploring our solar system and learning 948 00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:45,120 Speaker 1: more about what's on the surface of these frozen, crusty planets. Yeah, 949 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,399 Speaker 1: and it's fascinating because it's either out there or it's not. 950 00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,279 Speaker 1: Like right now, there are maybe things swimming around in 951 00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,319 Speaker 1: liquid bodies in our solar system. And the only thing 952 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,560 Speaker 1: that keeps us from knowing the answer from cracking this 953 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,320 Speaker 1: crazy ancient miss three these our willingness to go and look. 954 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,520 Speaker 1: These things don't even cost that much money, you know, 955 00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:08,640 Speaker 1: a few hundred million dollars. We could know the answer 956 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,680 Speaker 1: to this question that every human has been asking basically 957 00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,759 Speaker 1: since forever. So if you think that's important to talk 958 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,440 Speaker 1: to your elected officials and support this kind of research. 959 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,600 Speaker 1: Al right, Well, uh, that was super interesting. Thank you 960 00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:25,040 Speaker 1: Katie for joining us today. Again. Katie, your podcast is 961 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:28,439 Speaker 1: called Creature Features And so where can people find it? Yeah, 962 00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean it's on this network, on I Heart Radio. 963 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,000 Speaker 1: You can find it on iHeart Radio website, the app, 964 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,839 Speaker 1: or you know, on Apple podcasts where wherever you get 965 00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: your podcasts. And yeah, we answer a lot of questions 966 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,520 Speaker 1: about life here on Earth on that podcast with comedy 967 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,839 Speaker 1: and in diseases, right, also, that's right, more comedy than 968 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:52,160 Speaker 1: diseases generally. Well, I mean you also talked about the 969 00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:57,879 Speaker 1: viruses and fun and interesting things that affect the animal behaviors. Absolutely. Yeah, 970 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,359 Speaker 1: like we we talked about sometimes serious subjects about our 971 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,400 Speaker 1: health and and the planet's health. But yeah, we we 972 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,080 Speaker 1: always try to bring it back to the things that 973 00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:11,040 Speaker 1: really bring us together and the common behavior as you 974 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,760 Speaker 1: can find in life on Earth, and it's it's really fun. 975 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: Who knows, maybe in a couple of years in the future, 976 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 1: you'll be having an episode about life in other planets. Yes, 977 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,640 Speaker 1: space fish, don't get them on your windshield. I like 978 00:55:26,719 --> 00:55:29,040 Speaker 1: to eat buy space fish with the side of ice balls. 979 00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:31,360 Speaker 1: All right, Thank you Katie, and thank you guys for 980 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,680 Speaker 1: joining us. We hope you enjoyed dad, see you next time. 981 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain 982 00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,360 Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of I Heart Radio. For 983 00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,439 Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 984 00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,120 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 985 00:55:55,160 --> 00:56:01,480 Speaker 1: favorite shows. No