1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, it's Friday night and 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: it is special. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: Crime Stories Friday Night Special. When I say special, I 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: mean special. Now Here's a woman nobody will forget. I 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: don't know if you're going to remember her name, Virginia Gonzalez, 6 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: but you'll remember this, the mom of multiple children, including 7 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: a seven year old little girl, found locked in a 8 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: dark closet that was barricaded down to about twenty six pounds, 9 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 1: fed one corn dog a day. If that, well, I'm 10 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: looking at her mugshot. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa? What happened 11 00:00:53,880 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: to those massive fake eyelashes? Where did they go? Uh? 12 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: Oh? 13 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: Here she is in the raw, and miss thing comes 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: into court and demands to speak. Of course, I could 15 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,479 Speaker 1: not be happier. That's right, A mom of a little 16 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: girl just seven years old at twenty six pounds. I 17 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: think John David Wade added five months for Pete's sake, 18 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: locked in a closet, barricaded in the closet, the closet 19 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: dark in their twenty four to seven three sixty five 20 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: gets one corn dog a day. If that speaks out 21 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: in court, Now, before I tell you what Miss Thing 22 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: says in court, let me jog your memory about what happened. 23 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: On April third, twenty twenty five, Austin Police Department responded 24 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 3: to a nine to one to one call for a 25 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 3: seven year old child that was found locked in a 26 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 3: closet and starving. The seven year old was immediately taken 27 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: to a local hospital for medical treatment and is currently recovering. 28 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 3: There were six other children found in the home that 29 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:06,279 Speaker 3: appeared physically healthy. 30 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 4: Police officers at an Austin apartment find a severely malnourished 31 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 4: seven year old girl who is barricaded in a bedroom closet. 32 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: The child has found soiled, weighing just twenty nine pounds, 33 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 4: and has been confined to a three foot by two 34 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 4: foot clauset space for approximately a month. Investigators find the 35 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 4: child has been given one corn dog and half a 36 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 4: cup of water a day. Doctors Atdell Children's Medical Center 37 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 4: determined the little girl as suffering moderate to severe cerebral 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 4: atrophy from prolonged malnutrition, damage from which she will never recover. 39 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: And now new details emerging in a case out of Austin, Texas, 40 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: authorities first learn a seven year old girl is locked 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: in a closet. Who knows how long she weighs twenty 42 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: six pounds. When they go to inspect that they find 43 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: out her sister has been missing four years. Mommy Virginia 44 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: Gonzales facing charges including injury to a child inflicting serious 45 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: injury after her daughter found locked in a closet and starving. 46 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: But it was only after that arrest police learned she 47 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 1: never reported the disappearance of the other child, a nine 48 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: year old little girl missing since December two thousand and seventeen. 49 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: Now many people have asked me online, why didn't the 50 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: grandmother do anything? Well, the grandmother did call police when 51 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: she went to the home and found the seven year 52 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: old in the closet, but no one called police about 53 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: the missing sister. And I want to remind you this 54 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: closet was less than five feet by two feet five 55 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: by two five feet tall, two feet wide. There were 56 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: other objects in there. What other objects in there? No light, 57 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: no ventilation, and it was barricaded by seventy five pounds 58 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: of boxes in front of it. Can you imagine the 59 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: life that child had in a closet her living space 60 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 1: about three by one foot ten inches three by two 61 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: let's be generous, no light, no ventilation, barricaded on the 62 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: outside by seventy five pound boxes in front of it. 63 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: The little girl was soiled, of course, she had tee 64 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: teed and defecated. I said, twenty six is twenty nine pounds. 65 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: Twenty nine pounds when she was rescued. She's already suffered 66 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: moderate to severe cerebral atrophy. That's permanent brain damage due 67 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: to prolonged nutrition. This is what we are just learning. Quote. 68 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: She will never recover a according to the state's affidavit. Now, 69 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: the other six children in the home from two to 70 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: fourteen told Grandma they were ordered to lock her in 71 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: there because she had quote bladder control issues and was 72 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: quote always getting into stuff and quote eating things she 73 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: was not supposed to, what like food. A ten year 74 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: old brother told police he was told he had to 75 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: clean the closet because the little sister would have to 76 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: defecate a urinate in the closet. The little girl gets 77 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: just a corn dog a day and a half a 78 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: cup of water. How can a child survive day after day, 79 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: week after week, month after month, locked in a dark closet, 80 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: living off nothing. Straight out to Christina Oyo, joining US 81 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Christina this child locked in a closet. 82 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 5: What happened well, according to the affidavit, when police got there, 83 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 5: When the caller called in for the welfare check and 84 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 5: police got there, they found a seven year old little 85 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 5: girl locked in a closet. It was barricaded by seventy 86 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 5: five pounds of boxes. They opened that door, they found 87 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 5: that child in there. She was soiled, surrounded by feces. 88 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 5: She was severely malnourished. She had dark spots all over 89 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 5: her body, which is a sign of severe malnourishment. They 90 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 5: took her, of course, to the hospital where she weighed 91 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 5: twenty nine pounds, and medical personnel say that because of 92 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 5: the prolonged starvation of that little girl that she will 93 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 5: have permanent brain damage. 94 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: Permanent brain damage caused by starvation. Joining me, Virginia Bagbie, 95 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: director of Child Help, National child abuse hotline child Help Virginia, 96 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Many people don't know 97 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 1: that starving a child can result in permanent brain damage. 98 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anything like it before, Virginia. 99 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 6: We have definitely heard about cases like this, and they 100 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 6: happen all too often. 101 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall, Crown's Chief medical examiner Terran County. That's fort worth, 102 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: never a lack of business. He is the esteemed lecturer 103 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU and has 104 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: just launched a hit podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue. Doctor 105 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, thank you for being with us. I know 106 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: that you heard this, but let me repeat it again. 107 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: A seven year old little girl barricaded in a locked 108 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: bedroom closet, locked from the outside, soiled, a seven year 109 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: old weighing just twenty nine pounds, confined to a three 110 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: by two foot closet. She is being given at most 111 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: one corn dog and a half cup of water a day. 112 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: She is now suffering permanent, moderate to severe cerebral atrophy 113 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: from prolonged malnutrition. The dock states she will never recover. 114 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: Could you interpret that place certainly? 115 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: So she's not being given much food or water. I 116 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: mean a corn dog and a cup of water is 117 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 2: not much for a child or anybody for that matter. 118 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: Her body is losing its depleting its muscle, depleting its stores, 119 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: so her muscles are wasting away, her bones are starting 120 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: to not form properly, and she's being starved. And part 121 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: of being starve results in your cardiac muscle or your 122 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: heart muscle mass starting to also fade away or go away, 123 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: which reduces your heart's ability to pump your blood, which 124 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 2: results in your kidney's failing and you go into kidney failure. 125 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 2: You also start having gut issues as well, and this 126 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: can all affect your brain and your brain's development, especially 127 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: in a child. So all those factors combined will result 128 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: in her having these issues that the doctors are describing. 129 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: Nor general crowns child of seven years old should weigh 130 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: around seventy pounds. Forty forty five to seventy pounds, is 131 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: that right? 132 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: Yes, that would be about the average bit of a 133 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: child at. 134 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: Seven a seven year old average. Of course, they grow 135 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: at different ways. The average is fifty one pounds for 136 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: a seven year old child, but it ranges from forty 137 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: three to seventy. So where would you place twenty nine 138 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: pounds in that spectrum? Twenty nine pounds If a seven 139 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: year old can weigh up to seventy three, she's not 140 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: even half the weight of a seven year old. 141 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, the weight you're describing as a severely malnourished child. 142 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: So she's been starved for a prolonged period of time. 143 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: How does that make a child brain damaged? 144 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: It's from the body shutting down, the lack of food, 145 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 2: the lack of loss of muscle mass, heart muscle mass 146 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 2: being lost and not circulating properly. The organs aren't getting 147 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: enough oxygenated blood, and of course the brain's part of this, 148 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 2: so the brain's not getting proper oxygenation. Also, the brain 149 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 2: relies on glucose or sugars to grow and develop, and 150 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: it's not getting that as well, So the brain is 151 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 2: basically maldeveloped, not getting enough oxygen, so you get brain damage. 152 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns. Isn't it true that a child weighing twenty 153 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: nine pounds typically, and I'm basing this on charts of 154 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: statistics that I prepared, it's typically a twenty two month 155 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 1: old child at twenty nine pounds. 156 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: Yes, I would be correct. 157 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: A seven year old little girl, Doctor Tyndall Crowns, that 158 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: should weigh seventy one pounds fifty one to seventy one 159 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 1: pounds weighs twenty nine pounds. With a child starving, what 160 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: would she be in dear on the floor of that 161 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: locked closet, Doctor. 162 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,679 Speaker 2: Crowns, she would be enduring confusion, dehydration, or a very 163 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 2: dry mouth or throat. It be dry, she'd have trouble swallowing, 164 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: She'd be very tired and just not able to even move. 165 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 2: And then you would add on to that the fact 166 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 2: that without the food she'd start hallucinating and then eventually 167 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: just slip into a coma and finally die. 168 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: Doctor Tunnel Crowns. Would the child lose her hair? I 169 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: know that she's losing all muscle tone. Would she be 170 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: losing her hair? Would her faculties or hearing her sight? 171 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: Would that be intact? And what would her brain function 172 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: be lying on the floor of a dark closet starving. 173 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 2: So yes, hair often will fall out in individuals who 174 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: are starved. Her brain function would be very minimal. She'd 175 00:11:54,760 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 2: be confused, even possibly hallucinating, and just completely fatigued, not 176 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: even feeling like moving. 177 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: Is it true? Doctor Kimbal Crowns that when someone has 178 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: been starved for a prolonged period of time, as in 179 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: this case, when you give them food they can't even 180 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: eat it. 181 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: Yes, you can have what is called if you give 182 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 2: a person who's been starved, you feed them too quickly, 183 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: you can have what is called refeeding syndrome where they 184 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 2: actually will from the food intake. It will cause so 185 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: much of a shock to their body that they can die. 186 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: Guys. When police show up to a home, they find 187 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: six children and then a seventh locked in a closet, 188 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: weighing just twenty nine pounds, but ironically, amazingly listen to 189 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: the condition of the other six children. 190 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 4: Six other children in the apartment, ranging in age from 191 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 4: two to fourteen years old, are found to be an 192 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: apparently good physical condition. The apartment's pantry, refrigerator in freezer 193 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 4: are stocked with various food items. The oldest children were 194 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 4: given strict orders to put the little girl in the 195 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 4: closet because she had bladder control issues and she was 196 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 4: trying to eat things she wasn't supposed to. During the investigation, 197 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,000 Speaker 4: police learned there's an eighth child, Ava Marie, who is 198 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 4: not in the home with the other children. 199 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: We've got one starved child who has permanent brain damage. 200 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: A seven year old little girl weighing twenty nine pounds 201 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: locked in the closet. Now I've got a missing child too. 202 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: But to doctor Angela Arnold joining me, renowned psychiatrist out 203 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,479 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. 204 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Angie, thank you for being with us. Did you 205 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: hear what was just reported? That there were six other 206 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: children in the home seemingly healthy, and they were encouraged 207 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: to keep the little girl locked in a closet, starving 208 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: her because the little girl would eat things she wasn't 209 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: supposed to eat. You know what, doctor Angie, I ever 210 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: every excuse in the book about why parents starve the children. 211 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: Oh the child ate a candy bar, I'll starve it. 212 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 1: The child eats too much, I'll starve it. The child 213 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: has behaved, I'll starve it. I mean, there are a 214 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: million excuses I have heard as to why moms and 215 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: dads starve the baby dead. But yet we see six 216 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: other children seemingly healthy. 217 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 7: And this is oftentimes what we do see in cases 218 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 7: like this, Nancy, So the other children need to be 219 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 7: taken care of as well as this goes on, because 220 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 7: they have been suffering something called Stockholm syndrome. They want 221 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 7: to They are so scared of the abuse that they 222 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 7: see being heaped on this other child that they that 223 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 7: they go into it with their mother literally to protect themselves. Okay, 224 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 7: because Nancy imagine how scared these other children are. They 225 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 7: never know who's going to be next to be locked 226 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 7: in that closet, So they're going to listen to their mama. 227 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 7: They're going to do what she says. And I think 228 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 7: that they could probably also psychologically sort of break off 229 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 7: from from feeling towards the child that is being locked 230 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 7: in the closet so that they can protect themselves, because 231 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 7: this is chaos that this family is living in. It 232 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 7: is complete and utter chaos, and all of those other 233 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 7: children are suffering. They may not be brain dead, brain 234 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 7: damage to excuse me, they are not being you know, 235 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 7: they're not being starved, but they are also being damaged 236 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 7: by this so called mother of theirs. 237 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 8: A missing child case takes a dark turn after a 238 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 8: disturbing discovery inside a family home. 239 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: It brings to mind the case of another seven year 240 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: old child, Adrian Jones. There was just handed down a 241 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: multimillion dollar verdict against the state of Kentucky. Adrian Jones 242 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: was systematically starved, forced by his mother and father to 243 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: watch the rest of the family eight. They would put 244 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: bars of soap in his mouth while everyone else ate 245 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: forced him to stand outside, chin deep in a pool 246 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: until finally the boy died. They killed the boy. Listen. 247 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 4: Former bailbondsman Michael Jones is awarding custody of his son, 248 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 4: Adrian Jones, and takes the boy away from his mother. 249 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 4: For the next four years, Adrian is regularly starved, rudely beaten, 250 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 4: tortured taste, and locked in a shower naked for months. 251 00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 4: Adrian's brothers and sisters do not suffer the same fate. 252 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 4: Adrian is singled out by his father and stepmother. When 253 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 4: the child dies, Michael Jones buys two pigs and doesn't 254 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 4: feed them while the Adrian's body is left in the 255 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 4: shower for two weeks. When the pigs are starving, Michael 256 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 4: Jones feeds his son to the pigs. Michael and Heather 257 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 4: Jones plead guilty to first yeary murder and are serving 258 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 4: twenty five years to life. 259 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: So in one closet, we've got the child starved and 260 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: a missing child. And back to you, doctor Anngie Arnold, 261 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: you said the other siblings are going to have to 262 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,360 Speaker 1: be in treatment. You're right, because they didn't just watch 263 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: their sister starved slowly to death. They were forced to 264 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: keep her in the closet themselves. They're going to go 265 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: the rest of their lives thinking they starved their sister 266 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: and now she's got permanent brain damage. Angie. 267 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 7: That's exactly correct, Nancy. These children have been abused in 268 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 7: a different way, and it's all for a matter of control. 269 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 7: It's to keep all of those children in control, Nancy, 270 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 7: because you know, you can only imagine there's one mother, 271 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 7: all of these children, and if somebody got old enough 272 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 7: to decide, you know, we really shouldn't be treating this 273 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 7: person this way, they could possibly escape or something like this, right, 274 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 7: but that mother is making sure that they are so terrified. 275 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 7: They are so terrified in the home that they live in, 276 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 7: and she and she feeds them so that they have 277 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 7: this odd relationship where there with the mother where they 278 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 7: still need her, but they're scared of her, so that 279 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 7: none of them will go against her. 280 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: To Brown Blake, joining US agent, Professor of University Texas 281 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: School of Law, chief legal officer Texas Advocacy Project, browin 282 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I've seen it many 283 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: many times, like in Adrian Jones, Like in this case, 284 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: for one child out of the whole group is singled out, 285 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: and they're the ones that starved. That child is the 286 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:02,199 Speaker 1: one that's abused. I don't understand the phenomena, but I 287 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: accept it because I've seen it over and over, even 288 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: cases that I prosecuted other children we'll go unscathed while 289 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: the one child would end up dead. 290 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 9: The idea that abuse is all about power and control 291 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 9: really helps explain this dynamic. This person is not out 292 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 9: of control. They're being very calculated and systematic in who 293 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 9: they abuse and how so all of those children experienced abuse, 294 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 9: just in different ways. 295 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 1: Guys, Not only do we have a child starved your death, 296 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: languishing on the floor of locked closet, we have a 297 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: missing child. Listen. 298 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 3: During the investigation, police discovered that there was an eighth 299 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: child who was not found inside the home. The missing 300 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 3: nine year old child was identified as Ava Marie Gonzalez. 301 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,199 Speaker 3: Missing person's detectives determined that Ava was last seen in 302 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 3: December twenty seventeen, when she was two years old and 303 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 3: in the custody of her mother, Virginia Marie Gonzalez. 304 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 4: Learning there should be eight children in the apartment, not 305 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 4: just the seven they found, police opened an investigation and 306 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 4: quickly determined Ava Marie has not been seen by family 307 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 4: or friends since she was two years old in twenty seventeen, 308 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 4: in custody of her mother, Virginia Gonzalez. Considering the condition 309 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 4: of Ava's seven year old sister when she was found, 310 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 4: Austin police detectives are very concerned about Ava's welfare. 311 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: So they've got six children seemingly healthy, you've got one 312 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: child starved locked in a closet, and now you've got 313 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 1: a missing child. Joining me as a special guest, this 314 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: is Leanne Marie, friend of the children's mother, Virginia Gonzalez. Leanne, 315 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. 316 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 10: Yes, ma'am. 317 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: Leanne Marie. Tell me about Virginia Gonzalez. 318 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 10: So, from what I know, she was just a normal person. 319 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 11: I mean, honestly, she never really had her kids with her, 320 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 11: like you know, presence. The only one that I've seen 321 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 11: with her in the past year was the oldest one, 322 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 11: the fourteen year old. Besides that, we never knew that 323 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 11: she had, you know, the little girl. 324 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 10: We only knew of boys. 325 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 11: So she was just a typical person, partying out in 326 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 11: the clubs and the bars. I mean, she she was 327 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 11: just she never lived like she even had nine eight 328 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 11: nine kids. 329 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:40,679 Speaker 1: Very very you're scaring me now there's mommy. Hi Mom, Yeah, 330 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: but there she is. Party down Mom? Where are your children? 331 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: Right now? William Marine just said something that scared me. Okay, 332 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: hold on, So I know that there are six children 333 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: in the home, healthy ish, one starved in a closet, 334 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: and one missing. That's eight, but you mentioned nine the 335 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: possibility of a ninth child. Sam is a very nice child. 336 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 10: Yes, So right now they're saying that this night child. 337 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 11: He is not He does not have a social social 338 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 11: security here in Texas, so he's not registered here in Texas. 339 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: Okay, Darryl Parker, I need you and I need you. 340 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: Now there's another missing child. Did you hear that? Darryl Parker, 341 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: former Lieutenant Fanning County Sheriff's Office, former Marine, former Texas 342 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: police officer. Help me. So we're learning right now that 343 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: there's a ninth child that's in the wind. Nobody knows 344 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: how old the child is, where it is, It doesn't 345 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: have a Texas Social Security number. 346 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 12: Yeah, Nancy, that's that's pretty concerning. I know that the 347 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 12: mom has already made several statements to police that are 348 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 12: inconsistent about the child that is missing already that they 349 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 12: already know about and It'll be interesting to see if 350 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 12: some follow up questioning can reveal anything about this ninth child. 351 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 12: Possible ninth child. 352 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: Virginia Bagby joining us from Child Help National Abuse Hotline 353 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 1: going into this right now. I knew that there were 354 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: eight children, six in the home, one starve near death 355 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: with brain damage, and one missing since twenty seventeen. Now 356 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm hearing about child number nine. Is that child dead? 357 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you do when you get a 358 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,880 Speaker 1: call like this the Child Help hotline? 359 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 6: Well, this is a really difficult one. I would encourage 360 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 6: somebody to reach out to the local hospitals potentially where 361 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 6: all the other children have been born, to see if 362 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 6: they have any record. This is very concerning to have 363 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 6: two children missing. Now these other children have probably are 364 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 6: aware that they have siblings that are missing. Add that 365 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 6: to the terror they've been experiencing. 366 00:23:52,040 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace in court, miss thing in 367 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: you Gonzales estates. I instructed them not to let her 368 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: out of the bedroom, but not the closet, so she 369 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: would basically blame the other children. Quote, we'd capture in 370 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: the restroom doing something bad. What what would she be 371 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,639 Speaker 1: doing in the bathroom at seven years old? Quote it 372 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: was easier for my sons to watch her that way. 373 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: Well what were you doing? What was grandma doing? Why 374 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: weren't they watching her? Why would you leave a ten 375 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: year old boy in charge of six other children? Text 376 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: messages uncover Gonzales texting one of her children, quote, clean 377 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: the closet, then throw her back in. In the affidavit 378 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: we obtained, the detective describes a child the fat in 379 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: her cheeks was non existent. Her body had used those 380 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: stores to sustain itself. Now, wait a minute, Gonzales speaks more. 381 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: She insists the children had quote adequate food. I don't 382 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: dispute I was wrong. I know what I've done is wrong. 383 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: I want to fight for my kids. Are you serious? 384 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm ready to do whatever I need to keep my 385 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: children in my life. Well you know what, they could 386 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: be your pen pals from behind bars woman. 387 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 8: A shocking discovery inside a home leads police to investigate 388 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 8: a long buried secret. 389 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Liam Marie is joining us a friend of the Ma. 390 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: Virginia Gozales MS murray, thank you because what you've just 391 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: said could save a child's life. Yes, mom, however do 392 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: you know Leanne is the ninth child older younger girl. 393 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 11: Boy, it's a boy and he is around age nine 394 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 11: to ten years old. So she has a fourteen and eleven, 395 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 11: A ten, A nine, A seven. I know she has 396 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 11: two three year olds the newborn. 397 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 10: So there's there's there's nine. From what I'm hearing right now. 398 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, let me have this up. There's a 399 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: fourteen year old and eleven year old, a ten year old, 400 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: A nine year old is the boy that you think 401 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: is missing? A seven year old? Is a little girl 402 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: starved in the closet? Two three year old? I go one, two, three, four, five, six, 403 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: seven eight, I'm missing somebody fourteen, eleven, ten nine missed 404 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 1: three and three and a kneeborn. 405 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 11: What now, So Eva's around eight nine years old and 406 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 11: then the little boy's right after her eleven months difference. 407 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: You stated that Virginia Gonzales, the mother the starving little 408 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: girl and the other missing girl, was quote normal, would 409 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: go partying at the clubs and the bars. Hey, I 410 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: don't have a problem with that party down, mommy, But 411 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: what would she ever mention who was taking care of 412 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 1: the children while she's at bar. 413 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 11: So from we understand was that the kids, all the 414 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 11: kids were left with the grandmother of She has three 415 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 11: kids that belonged to one father and they were that 416 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 11: was who she was with the past seven years, and 417 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 11: so they were supposedly. 418 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 10: All living with the grandmother. 419 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: You're seeing mommy now out parting on a boat, drinking 420 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: straight out of a vodka mini bottle. Ooh, there she 421 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: is in a bar. Why bother with a glass? Seriously? 422 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 1: Why who needs a glass when you can drink straight 423 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: from the bottle. There's mommy chowing down on some free 424 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: toes and chips on a boat while her twenty nine 425 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: pound seven year old daughter is locked in a closet 426 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: at home. Okay, Dodrangie Arnold, I need to shrink because 427 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: why is she had on a boat parting while her 428 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: child is starving in a closet and two children are missing? 429 00:27:58,240 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: Right? 430 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,159 Speaker 7: And Nancy, how could she? How can she just be 431 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 7: so unattached from all of these children that she's having. 432 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 7: So my question is why is she having all of 433 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 7: these children? And I'm sorry, is it to support her lifestyle? 434 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 7: And where are the fathers of these children? We always 435 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 7: have to ask where is We're always you know, why 436 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 7: isn't the mother taking care of them? 437 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 2: Okay? 438 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 7: Yeah, she is a horrible person that has done horrible 439 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 7: things to at least two of her children that we 440 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 7: know about. Where are the fathers of these children and 441 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 7: why are any of them involved? But Nancy, I don't 442 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 7: believe she should be out partying on a boat. I 443 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 7: think that when you have children, you should be at 444 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 7: home taking care of your children and not relying on 445 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 7: someone else to take care of them, because again we 446 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 7: don't know how children take that, but oftentimes when mothers 447 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 7: are not around, children do since a fear of abandonment 448 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 7: when their mother is not taking care of them. 449 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: But to Rowin Blake joining us as John Professor University 450 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: takes a school of law, Robin, I'm not lady. If 451 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: mom wants to party, go ahead. If mom wants to 452 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: vape and smoke, have at it. The issue is intent. 453 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: When she is out partying in her club and bar finery, 454 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: her child is at home starving and two of them 455 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: are missing. Now that goes to intent. When I'm trying 456 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:29,840 Speaker 1: to prove felony child neglect to a jury, that's when 457 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: that type of video let's see the video again comes 458 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: in to play. I couldn't care less what mommy wears 459 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: or what bar she goes to, don't care. But if 460 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: your child is at home, starving in a closet, suddenly 461 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: your behavior, your actions during that time are relevant. 462 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 9: Absolutely. I can tell you're thinking like a prosecutor. The 463 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 9: contrast between the images you're showing of these this child 464 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 9: and then her mother partying, it. 465 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: Tells the whole story there. 466 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 9: Fortunately, many of users present one face to some people, 467 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 9: can be very charming to some people. And then we 468 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 9: hear about these horrible things happening at home. 469 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: Two, Doctor Kimmell Crown's joining me, Chief Medical Examiner, Terran County. 470 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth. Doctor Kimmell Crowns. I've got one child 471 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: starved almost beyond recognition, her bones sticking out, you know, 472 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: like they're visible through the skin. I've got that child starved, 473 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: almost dead, permanent brain injury. I've got a missing little girl, 474 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: and now I'm learning from leam Marie there's another boy 475 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: missing that is about one, two three fourth in the 476 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: progression line of children. Leam Marie joining us. A friend 477 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 1: of mom, Virginia Gonzalez, did you know that Ava was missing? 478 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 10: No, we had no idea. 479 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 11: Back in twenty eighteen, when I originally first met at Virginia. 480 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 11: We only knew of three little boys. So after talking 481 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 11: to mutual friends and all concluding that. 482 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 10: She had Ava's hair shaved like a boy. 483 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 11: She never had Ava in her possess I mean, she 484 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 11: never let us know that it was a girl. She 485 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 11: had her presented as a boy to all of us, 486 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 11: so we're all in shock. We didn't nobody knew that 487 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 11: she had Ava. 488 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: Well, An, I don't understand this. So she showed you Ava, 489 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: but this is the missing child, not the starving child. Right, 490 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: you saw Ava, and she had her dressed like a 491 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: boy with her head shaved. 492 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 11: She had her hair, she had him had she had 493 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 11: a faid, He had a faid. I definitely confirmed this 494 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 11: with her landlord and roommates that she. 495 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 10: Lived with back in twenty eighteen. 496 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 11: Everybody concluded that and confirmed that it was a little boy. 497 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 11: It was not nobody knew she had a little girl. 498 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: Lan knowing the mother, why do you think she shaved 499 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: the little girl's head and passed her off as a boy. 500 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 11: I feel like that she had a anger issue with 501 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 11: the little girls because of the way her mother treated 502 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 11: her back when she was little, and I think that 503 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 11: she was taking it out on these little girls, because 504 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 11: from all the evidence and information that I've collected, it's 505 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 11: all based on the girls. 506 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 10: So you know, she sold the baby who was a 507 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 10: little girl that was just born in March. 508 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: She starved a whoa, whoa, whoa. My head is spinning. 509 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: What did you just say? She sold a baby? 510 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 11: Yes, and CPS just found that baby when Okay, but. 511 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: Ahead, that's the newborn baby that was just born in March, 512 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: so that baby's been sold. Yes, but see how much 513 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: does she get from the baby. 514 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 10: From what I heard? 515 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: Twenty five k Christina, why tell me about the newborn 516 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: baby girl that just got sold? 517 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 5: Well apparently for my investigations online, and none of this 518 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 5: has been confirmed yet, but she did have this newborn baby, 519 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 5: and according to all person who says that they are 520 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 5: a close relative of the family, she did have a 521 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 5: newborn baby. 522 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: It was sold to a couple. 523 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 5: So if that is in fact the case, there could 524 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 5: be a possibility that Avan Marigan Soliz was also sold, 525 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 5: and that's something that will have to be looked into, 526 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 5: because it would be my opic of us to think 527 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 5: that that possibility isn't out there. 528 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: You know what, Christina Ariyah, I can only hope and 529 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: pray that she was sold and that she's alive and 530 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: being treated better than the little seven year old to Leanne Marie, 531 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,959 Speaker 1: a friend of mom Virginia Gonzalez, why did she sell 532 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: her baby? 533 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 11: I'm guessing financial issues. But at the same time, you know, 534 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 11: all the money was going downtown Sixth Street and at 535 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,320 Speaker 11: the strip clubs. I mean, she was just making it 536 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 11: rain with money and buying bottles after bottles and buying 537 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 11: everybody buying. 538 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 10: The bar out. I mean, that's where I seen the 539 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 10: money going. I didn't see anything else that she had that. 540 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 11: I mean, she didn't even have a vehicle, you know 541 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 11: what I mean. So, I mean I think all the 542 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 11: money was just going to party in I don't think 543 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,719 Speaker 11: it was ever to just take care of her and 544 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 11: the rest of the kids, you know what I mean. 545 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: I noticed in the party video she's got a Gucci 546 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: bag strapped around her front. Was that a fake? Was 547 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: that a fruity? A fake Gucci? 548 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 11: From my understanding, everything that the police found in her 549 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 11: room was everything was name brand. I don't think it 550 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 11: was fake, but I do now know that a video 551 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 11: was taped back in May a year ago. 552 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 10: She would just cover up her. 553 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 11: Stomach I mean she would honestly, now that I'm thinking, 554 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 11: I'm thinking she was trying to. 555 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,720 Speaker 10: Hide the pregnancy. Why because she was out there. 556 00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,840 Speaker 11: Partying, I mean on the boat party, which was in 557 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 11: September of twenty twenty four, my birthday. You can see 558 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 11: in the video she was kind of closed. 559 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 10: She didn't take the whole. 560 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 11: Shot, and I got other, you know, videos of footage 561 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 11: of her putting the shots on the side when people 562 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 11: weren't watching. So I think she knew she was pregnant, 563 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 11: but she just didn't want the other the world to 564 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 11: know that she was pregnant. So she would literally buy bottles, 565 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 11: get everybody drunk, and. 566 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,920 Speaker 10: I guess what then nobody notices anything. 567 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: Question. Did she discuss openly that she was selling the baby? 568 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 10: No, no, ma'am. 569 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 11: I found that out through the one of the children's families, 570 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 11: the ones that I've been speaking with since the very 571 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 11: beginning of the case, when it first started getting investigated. 572 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: Do you know who she sold the baby too? 573 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 10: I do not know them personally. I just know that 574 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 10: it was a couple. 575 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: Well, I am, why did she keep having children and 576 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: she hated them so much? 577 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 11: I don't think that she was having the children to 578 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 11: you know, just be this and to take care of them. 579 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,240 Speaker 11: I think she was living off the benefits the snap 580 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 11: and the EBT and the fathers. I think that was 581 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 11: how she would hold some of these men, you know, 582 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 11: in her life, because a lot of them didn't deal 583 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 11: with the children. They only dealt with her, And a 584 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 11: lot of them didn't want the children, they just wanted her. 585 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 11: So I think that it was like the kids were 586 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 11: like a tool for the men she was. You know 587 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 11: how they say there's womenizers. I think she was like 588 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 11: that with the men, like where she idolized men before 589 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 11: her children. 590 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: Did anyone ever wonder who would be taking care of 591 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: the children while she's out partying. 592 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 11: So from my friendship experience with her, she would come 593 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 11: and go. So one minute she was out here popping 594 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 11: bottles for about two or three months, and then she'll 595 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 11: go ghost for six months a year, and then she'll 596 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 11: pop out out of nowhere again. So it wasn't really 597 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 11: she was really just screet with the children. Like I said, 598 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 11: I only went to her that apartment where they found 599 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 11: the child that was starving and the other six children. 600 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 11: I only went to that apartment one time, which was 601 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 11: to go pick her up and she it was clean. 602 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 11: It was the fourteen year old was the only one there. 603 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 11: I didn't I didn't ask because every time I asked 604 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 11: about the children, it was that they were with her, 605 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 11: the grandmother, because her baby daddy was you know, crazy 606 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 11: after her, so she just left the children at him 607 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 11: so he would be calm, is what she would. 608 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 2: Tell us. 609 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Now regarding the missing sister, 610 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: Gonzales spouts off again in court and says a man 611 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: named Saul he Menez took Little Ava from her, and 612 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 1: the man was the girl's father, but she now claims 613 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: he was deported back to Mexico before he men as 614 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: sister took Little Ava with her to Mexico as well. 615 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: I only hope and pray that's true. Although Austin police 616 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: say they are handling Little Ava's disappearance quote as a 617 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 1: homicide investigation, adding they quote don't have any evidence she 618 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: is alive, Gonzales in court reports she did not kill 619 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: her daughter. Well. Her bond has been raised to a 620 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: quarter million dollars. How do people have children over and 621 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,600 Speaker 1: over and over seven children? We now believe and treat 622 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: them like this? Has nobody ever heard of a condom. 623 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: Has nobody ever heard of the birth control bill? Locking 624 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: the child in the closet and starving her one child 625 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: already missing, believed to be dead. What more do we know? 626 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: Alia Marie is joining us a friend of the mom, 627 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: Virginia Gozales. So you think that she's having the children 628 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: in order to get state benefits. 629 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 10: I don't think it's just state benefits. 630 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 11: I think, like I said, it's more of a tool 631 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 11: for the men that she was in love with. I mean, 632 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 11: I mean some of them, some of the From what 633 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 11: I'm understanding too, is some of the kids. I mean, 634 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 11: she don't even know who the fathers is to some 635 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,399 Speaker 11: of the kids. I mean, she was known for being 636 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,439 Speaker 11: in the club, you know, with multiple men. So I mean, 637 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 11: I don't think that she used the children just for 638 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 11: the benefits. I think it was just more of tools 639 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 11: to keep the men in her life to help benefit 640 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 11: her with the money and the pain for this and 641 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 11: pain for that. 642 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 10: And that's what I think. 643 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: To Darryl Parker joining me former Lieutenant Fannin County Sheriff's 644 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: Office at blackfishintel dot com. Darryl, how do we go 645 00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 1: about finding the two missing children? You've got the little 646 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 1: girl missing, We've got an AH progress photo of her. 647 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: You've got her missing, You've got a nine year old 648 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: boy missing. I believe the little kneeborn girl that was 649 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,320 Speaker 1: sold has been recovered. But how do you go about 650 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: finding the two missing children? 651 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,280 Speaker 12: Well, you know, Nancy, I see a lot of parallels 652 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,480 Speaker 12: between this case. 653 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 13: And the Kasey Anthony case. And if you recall, the 654 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 13: thing that really bogged down that investigation was Kathy Anthony's 655 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 13: multiple stories where she gave the police all these different 656 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 13: versions of what happened to her child. And so in 657 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,400 Speaker 13: this case, I think the mom has given them some 658 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 13: inconsistent stories. They're going to have to track these down. 659 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,720 Speaker 13: And this is over a period of time too. Seven 660 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 13: years is a lot longer period of time than when 661 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 13: Katy Anthony's child was missing, so it's going to be 662 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 13: a lot more difficult for law enforcement to piece that together. 663 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,600 Speaker 13: But she couldn't have done all this without other adults 664 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 13: being aware of what was going on, at least collaterally, 665 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,359 Speaker 13: So I think there are going to be some other 666 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 13: collateral witnesses that can help provide some information to try. 667 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 13: In fun of you, Rob and. 668 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 1: Blake, I don't understand how the mother can be getting 669 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: government benefits but they're not in school because the government 670 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: does know they exist and they're off school age. 671 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,240 Speaker 9: How does that work. This is not supposed to happen. 672 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 9: When you hear a story like those, multiple systems have failed. 673 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 9: This mother was purposely not taking her children to school, 674 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 9: I'm sure because the teachers would have seen something. She's 675 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 9: not taking them to their doctor's appointments because the doctors 676 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 9: would have seen something. Here in Texas, every single adult 677 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 9: is a mandatory repporter of child abuse, not just those 678 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 9: professionals I mentioned, neighbors, family members. If anyone saw something, 679 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 9: it's the law that they had to report it. 680 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,759 Speaker 1: Christina A Wya, what more do you know? 681 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 5: Well, they're the woman who is online identifying as a 682 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 5: very close family member. 683 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: She revealed that the newborn baby was sold. 684 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,280 Speaker 5: She also is revealing some of the details of about 685 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 5: what Virginia was telling each one of the family members. 686 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,680 Speaker 5: It kind of lines up with what Virginia Gonzalez's friend 687 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 5: was telling us about the story. She was saying she 688 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,439 Speaker 5: pitted the two families against each other. She allegedly told 689 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 5: one family that the kids were in the care of 690 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 5: the other family, her side of the family told her 691 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 5: mom the same thing, vice versa. This woman also claims 692 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 5: that the father of three of Virginia Gonzalez's children actually 693 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:26,200 Speaker 5: took care of six of the children for two years 694 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 5: until he went to jail, allegedly back in December, and 695 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 5: that's when she's saying that Virginia Gonzalez went and picked up. 696 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: All the kids. 697 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 5: She had kept the fourteen with her, fourteen year old 698 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 5: with her originally and then went back and picked up 699 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 5: all the kids. So that was in December, which means 700 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 5: that if she picked up the little seven year old 701 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,560 Speaker 5: girl who they are calling re Rea in December, then 702 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,799 Speaker 5: that means that little girl was suffering, most likely six 703 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 5: months of abuse before that nine to one one call 704 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 5: came in and they discovered her in the closet. So 705 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 5: apparently this woman is describing Virginia Gonzalez as very manipulative, 706 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,680 Speaker 5: and it's crazy because they also say that she didn't 707 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 5: allow any of the children to go to school, and 708 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 5: there are no records of any of the children being 709 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,960 Speaker 5: in school, and as for Abram Mariganzalez, there's no medical records, 710 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 5: there's no legal records, So this is a really convoluted case. 711 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 5: And if it's true what they're saying about the baby 712 00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 5: being sold to a couple, that the possibility of abam 713 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 5: Reriganzalees being sold to a couple is there as well. 714 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,920 Speaker 1: But it might have been sold. The baby might have. 715 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,040 Speaker 5: Been sold to a more nefarious outfit, which means we 716 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,920 Speaker 5: could be looking at something concerning child trafficking, which we 717 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,680 Speaker 5: hope that's not the case. But either way, there's a 718 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,160 Speaker 5: lot of avenues that investigators need to go down, and 719 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 5: there are a lot of leads that they need to investigate. 720 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: Leam Marie, Now that you realize the extent of what 721 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: Virginia Gonzalez was doing to her children, are you surprised very? 722 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,720 Speaker 11: I'm very shocked. I'm very disbelief. I just I can't 723 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 11: believe it. I mean, she put up this image. I 724 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 11: would have never, in my rights, stay to mind, thought 725 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 11: that she was starving a kid or abusing the children 726 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:06,279 Speaker 11: like that. 727 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 10: I would have said something. 728 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:12,200 Speaker 1: To doctor Angela Arnold, how can you present one facade 729 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: to the public and live such a dark private life? 730 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 7: You know what that comes? That comes from years and 731 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 7: years of abuse. Because people who have been abused learn 732 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 7: how to compartmentalize different things in their life. So this woman, 733 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 7: because of the purported abuse that she experienced as a child, 734 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 7: has learned how to contain the different parts of her 735 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:46,800 Speaker 7: life and separate them. It all stems from her abuse. 736 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,560 Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding these 737 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: missing children, please dial five one two five seven two 738 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: eight four seven seven repeat five one two five seven 739 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: to two eight four seven seven. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend, 740 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: m HM.