Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside
Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets podcast
Speaker 1: called Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com Slash podcast. When we had the
Speaker 1: Bank of England this morning, I just wanted to point
Speaker 1: out one thing. Uh, I love I never know what
Speaker 1: to say bitcoin pricing per It's really per coin. Greg
Speaker 1: just said per bit, which is funny, but a bitcoin
Speaker 1: is made up of about a million bits, so I
Speaker 1: was going with the old per token that could work.
Speaker 1: Per token works also as as does per coin. Just
Speaker 1: saying per coin it sounds there's an echo, you know,
Speaker 1: but um, there are many, many, many bits in the
Speaker 1: line of code that make up one. Speaking of a point,
Speaker 1: it's per I'm gonna go with token down seven fifty
Speaker 1: dollars or one point five, So there you go. All right,
Speaker 1: let's check in with Megan Horneman, director of portfolio Strategy
Speaker 1: at Verden's Capital Advisors. Megan, thanks so much for joining
Speaker 1: us here. Just give us your thoughts of what we've
Speaker 1: heard and seen and read from various central banks over
Speaker 1: the past twenty four hours. How has that changed, if
Speaker 1: at all, your outlook for next year. Um, it hasn't
Speaker 1: changed our outlook. It wasn't a complete surprise what they did.
Speaker 1: I mean, they kind of told us what they would
Speaker 1: do when the Fed pivoted, when they dropped transitory last
Speaker 1: week or the week before. I think what they're doing
Speaker 1: is necessary. I think it's it's going to the Sometimes
Speaker 1: that short term pain helps with the long term gain.
Speaker 1: We need to get a little bit more aggressive about
Speaker 1: pulling back some of these emergency measures. Quantitative easing, for sure,
Speaker 1: we haven't needed that for some time now, we've been
Speaker 1: at that emergency situation. So I do agree with what
Speaker 1: they're doing there from the inflation standpoint as well, getting
Speaker 1: a little bit more aggressive now saying potentially three rate
Speaker 1: hikes next year. This is what the market wanted to hear,
Speaker 1: and you're seeing that being reflected in the equity market.
Speaker 1: If they had disappointed in coming out in any more
Speaker 1: debbish type of a tone, I think you actually would
Speaker 1: have seen a very big different story on the equity markets.
Speaker 1: I think you would have seen them sell off because
Speaker 1: there's that overwhelming fear that the FED maybe behind the curve.
Speaker 1: And what they're doing right now is showing that they're
Speaker 1: they're very um, observant of what's going on with the
Speaker 1: inflation environment and ready to hit to do what they
Speaker 1: need to do to tackle that. And um, do you
Speaker 1: have faith that they'll be able to do that without
Speaker 1: derailing economic growth? That's the that's the biggest question, right
Speaker 1: what can we do? Also, I didn't mean to use
Speaker 1: the word faith. I mean, you know, do you do
Speaker 1: you expect that? Yeah? No, no, do not worry about that. Um.
Speaker 1: So I think right now this is a very good step.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm glad they got a little bit more aggressive.
Speaker 1: The biggest thing that we will have to see in
Speaker 1: the first half of next year to see if they
Speaker 1: can successfully do this is, um, is there something that's
Speaker 1: going to give? Will the demand side of it from
Speaker 1: the consumers start to slow a bit? Um? Will that
Speaker 1: help us catch up on the supply side of things
Speaker 1: that may help alleviate some of the inflationary pressures in
Speaker 1: the second half of next year. That time will tell.
Speaker 1: With the consumer. We saw retail sales yesterday they were
Speaker 1: a little bit disappointing. There is some evidence that the
Speaker 1: higher prices from either the gas pump or the food prices,
Speaker 1: this is starting to affect consumers. You're seeing it with
Speaker 1: credit card debt pick up as well. So if we
Speaker 1: see some poolback in that demand side of things, then
Speaker 1: the FET is doing the right thing. It's doing its job.
Speaker 1: I still think it's a little bit too early to tell.
Speaker 1: Can we successfully land this economy in in Megan, So,
Speaker 1: given that backdrop, are you suggesting to your clients in
Speaker 1: that they focus on again some many cyclical names that
Speaker 1: will I guess perform well in a reopening economy, or
Speaker 1: kind of sticking with a tried and true big cap
Speaker 1: growth names. Um No, we're still recommending to stick with
Speaker 1: those cyclical type of sectors that will benefit from the
Speaker 1: global recovery. These also are the areas of the market
Speaker 1: that have lagged over the past six months by a
Speaker 1: significant amount. They from evaluation perspective, they're more they're more
Speaker 1: attractive than those large cap growth, mega cap tech type
Speaker 1: of names. And keep in mind that a lot of
Speaker 1: these very expensive investments, whether you're looking at mega tech
Speaker 1: or some of these momentum type of investments that you've
Speaker 1: seen materialized in two. They've been hurt over the past week,
Speaker 1: and that's been primarily because of the fact that the
Speaker 1: easy money policy that has fueled some speculative, speculative types
Speaker 1: of trades over the past year, that's going to be
Speaker 1: fading in the two. So you're seeing some profit taking there.
Speaker 1: You're seeing that today as well in seeing a rotation
Speaker 1: back into those areas that actually have values that can
Speaker 1: benefit from UM not only higher interest rates when you're
Speaker 1: looking at financials, they can benefit from the resumption of
Speaker 1: economic growth with industrials. So those are some areas that
Speaker 1: we still focus on going into next year. Drum Pal
Speaker 1: didn't seem terribly concerned about oh, Macron, although drinking havoc
Speaker 1: in Europe, UM, how does that factor into your strategy?
Speaker 1: So UM, we're going to deal with the different variants
Speaker 1: of this virus forever. This this isn't going away. What
Speaker 1: I would like to see INO is that we learned
Speaker 1: to live with it as opposed to locking down. Right now,
Speaker 1: we're still in that concern of lockdown phase. But if
Speaker 1: we can learn to live with this and get through
Speaker 1: these humps, because we will deal with more variants this,
Speaker 1: Oh Macron. Apparently there is a knee jerk reaction at first.
Speaker 1: That's because it's more transmissible, it's more dangerous. We're not
Speaker 1: seeing that right now. Um, it is definitely I've it's
Speaker 1: been more transmissible, but we're not seeing it necessarily increase
Speaker 1: the Hospitalization's. The one thing that we think will be
Speaker 1: a big focus in is therapeutics for for coronavirus. This
Speaker 1: will help us to get further to that living with
Speaker 1: it as opposed to locking down because of it. So
Speaker 1: I think that's going to be a focus in two.
Speaker 1: I'm not concerned at this point of Amcron's railing on
Speaker 1: the economic recovery. All right, Megan, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. Megan Hornham and director of Portfolio Strategy
Speaker 1: of Verden's Capital Advisers, talking about locking down just coming
Speaker 1: across the Bloomberg Terminal City tells New York, New Jersey
Speaker 1: staffers to work from home again. So we'll see how
Speaker 1: this plays out as a COVID nineteen continues and the
Speaker 1: Amicron variant is the driver here. I want to bring
Speaker 1: in Mark Douglas now, he is the president and CEO
Speaker 1: at Mountain. He works with Ryan Reynolds to put out
Speaker 1: ads like the one we saw over the weekend with
Speaker 1: Chris Noth still alive and well and writing his Peloton.
Speaker 1: Um bark talked to me about that fast turnaround. Did
Speaker 1: you have any heads up that um, the sex in
Speaker 1: the city, Uh, you know, death was going to happen
Speaker 1: in the days proceeding. Um none, So we had no
Speaker 1: head up, and Peloton had no head up, And we
Speaker 1: learned about it just like everyone else by just watching
Speaker 1: television and um, you know, in the basically on the show,
Speaker 1: HBO essentially implies that exercise is not healthy. And because
Speaker 1: one of the main characters missed the big dies and
Speaker 1: so UM, Peloton had just become a customer with a service.
Speaker 1: We new service we have we called Creative as a
Speaker 1: subscription where we can just mobilize quickly to include Creative
Speaker 1: and the media by and we actually on Saturday flew
Speaker 1: to New York and Ryan is a chief creative officer
Speaker 1: essentially UM with it with the team here, his team
Speaker 1: and Mountains just wrote this ad and UM filmed it
Speaker 1: and edited it and released it on Sunday. And I
Speaker 1: woke up Monday to all this news. So it was
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Yeah, yeah, no advance about this whatsoever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was extraordinary. And what kind of said to me
Speaker 1: a little bit, Ryan, is we often talked to you,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, often talked to you about you know, digital
Speaker 1: ad tech, digital advertising. It's still the importance of a
Speaker 1: good old TV ad can really generate a lot of buzz. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I mean it's something I say all the time. And
Speaker 1: a Mountain Wars software platform and essentially um distribute television
Speaker 1: media commercials on streaming media. But I always say, you know,
Speaker 1: it's advertising first, mad you know, the age of Madmen,
Speaker 1: all of that, it matters, and the message matters and
Speaker 1: so um and this literally essentially proved it. I mean,
Speaker 1: nothing beat just putting something and of consumers that is
Speaker 1: and attaining and watchable and and you know that that
Speaker 1: they can really consume and enjoy. And that's exactly what
Speaker 1: happened here. So it was. I can't stress how how
Speaker 1: unbelievable it was between Saturday and essentially Monday morning. It
Speaker 1: is pretty amazing. By the way, do people Mark, do
Speaker 1: they often confuse you with Brian not yet, has not yet,
Speaker 1: I've heard, but I was on CNBC with him. Well
Speaker 1: maybe I shouldn't mention that on Blue Work the other day,
Speaker 1: and I thought I was holding up pretty well. We
Speaker 1: are platform agnostic, but you know, speaking of TV, and
Speaker 1: Paul makes an interesting point, there's a lot of people
Speaker 1: who still watch the boob tube, UM, but most of
Speaker 1: us are going to see your ads on Instagram and
Speaker 1: YouTube rather than television. Right, where do you get the
Speaker 1: most exposure? Right? So, so from Mountains, we're basically just
Speaker 1: how television is new it's on demand, it's streamed. UM.
Speaker 1: That's where Mountains delivers the ad experience, the word performance
Speaker 1: platform for streaming television UM, and any brand can come
Speaker 1: to our website and sign up, you know, essentially use
Speaker 1: our platform and reach consumers. So we we are not
Speaker 1: on We obviously use social media ourselves, but our platform
Speaker 1: is on streaming. It's on when you're watching ABC, or
Speaker 1: you're watching the Bloomberg chatl on television or you know
Speaker 1: any essentially involved the teaving networks in America. But not well, UM,
Speaker 1: I think you know, we do have a ded we
Speaker 1: do serve an NBC. It sounds like we shouldn't be,
Speaker 1: so I'll keep that in mind. Mark, give us a
Speaker 1: sense of kind of how your conversations with your clients
Speaker 1: have kind of evolved over the past couple of years
Speaker 1: of this pandemic, is it How have they changed? If
Speaker 1: at all, It's it's the main thing. It's all about results.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that we're in kind of a
Speaker 1: golden age of television. It's just so much great content.
Speaker 1: I don't know anyone who you know, actively watches TV
Speaker 1: who can literally keep up with all the shows that
Speaker 1: are available on all the great content. Um. But for
Speaker 1: the advertisers, what really matters, especially during the pandemic, is
Speaker 1: they have to have provable results. And so that's kind
Speaker 1: of been the big ship to see this big shift
Speaker 1: going from brand advertising, UM, where companies just kind of
Speaker 1: take a leap of faith in terms of results to
Speaker 1: that spend so now kind of performance advertising and so
Speaker 1: you know, Mountain we've jumped really into performance advertising space.
Speaker 1: We may create a front and center by merging with
Speaker 1: Maxim MEFA Bryant's company, and um, it's just been a great,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of great journey in doing that. It's
Speaker 1: fantastic content, and UM, it doesn't seem to me that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people as smart and good
Speaker 1: looking as Ryan Reynolds. It seems unfair almost that did
Speaker 1: you do you shign him with your deal? Do you
Speaker 1: get a piece of him? I know Ryan is chief
Speaker 1: creative officer of Mountains UM and obviously founded Maximum Effort,
Speaker 1: and you know, I'm touching on just a small part
Speaker 1: of his old career. UM. It's been amazing UM to
Speaker 1: work with him and continues to be amazing, and he recently,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of took a sabbatical from films to
Speaker 1: just focus on building mountains and and the other things
Speaker 1: he has going on. So it's UM, I feel privileged
Speaker 1: to be able to UM have that kind of talent.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the things on going back
Speaker 1: to Peloton and the ad that we put out this weekend,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost an unfair advantage to have Ryan.
Speaker 1: It's a chief grative officer and and the team UM
Speaker 1: Maximum Efforts. It's now part of noun to see that,
Speaker 1: So it's it's UM. Uh. You know, we're just a
Speaker 1: big belief in creative as part of media and you know,
Speaker 1: UM bad media, so we're it's just it's kind of
Speaker 1: amazing to watch Mark. It's great having you on. I
Speaker 1: always love talking to you. Thanks so much for dropping by.
Speaker 1: Mark Douglas there, president and CEO at Mountain. Interest rates
Speaker 1: are on the rise. We saw the action by the
Speaker 1: Beau the Bank of England today. We heard FED Chairman
Speaker 1: Pal yesterday as he talks about accelerating tapering and then
Speaker 1: raising rates next year and into three. What is a
Speaker 1: fixed income manager to do? Where the opportunities in that
Speaker 1: kind of environment. Let's check in them with a pro
Speaker 1: Kevin Nicholson, Global Fixed Income Co c i OH. He's
Speaker 1: also co head of Investment committee at Riverfront Investment Group. Kevin,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us here. All right, given
Speaker 1: what we now know from an interest rate perspective, what's
Speaker 1: your outlook for My outlook for two is that we
Speaker 1: should see the ten year move higher by year. In
Speaker 1: our base case scenario is for the ten year to
Speaker 1: yield two percent by the end of the year UM.
Speaker 1: And as far as where we're looking for opportunities, UM,
Speaker 1: we're going to focus on trying to get some higher
Speaker 1: yields into the portfolio. We're going to look at high yield,
Speaker 1: even though UM we would stay up at the higher
Speaker 1: quality high yield at this juncture because as the FED
Speaker 1: begins its tightening cycle, I think it will put some
Speaker 1: pressure on some of the lower yielding companies out there,
Speaker 1: but you think it's safe. But you think it's safe
Speaker 1: to go back in the water now. I mean the
Speaker 1: second half of November was rough, um, not just for
Speaker 1: high yield, but for I G two and UM. Now
Speaker 1: now you think uh investors will cotton too, that they're
Speaker 1: gonna need some of that yield. Well, I think that.
Speaker 1: I mean when you look at where treasures are heal
Speaker 1: thing right now, I mean we have the tenure at
Speaker 1: a one forty two, you're not really you're not keeping
Speaker 1: up with inflation, and so you have to look at
Speaker 1: a place that you're at least going to get closer
Speaker 1: to it. Um. There's very few places in the in
Speaker 1: the fixing income market that can keep up with inflation
Speaker 1: at at current levels. A matter of fact, there's only
Speaker 1: one place you can really go, and that's to the
Speaker 1: tips market. UM. So from my perspective going into next year,
Speaker 1: we have to continue to be underweight fix income. If
Speaker 1: you're looking at it in a balanced portfolio, you're going
Speaker 1: to continue to have your duration shorter because interest rates
Speaker 1: are going up, so you don't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: put more pressure on your portfolio. By having a long
Speaker 1: duration in there at this point. So, Kevin, if I'm
Speaker 1: searching for yield and I venture into the high old market,
Speaker 1: what are some of the sectors, uh, that you guys
Speaker 1: think will be interesting next year? I mean, if we're
Speaker 1: going to continue to uh look at you know, your
Speaker 1: consumer UM services more from like your financial m consumer
Speaker 1: financial services, as well as we will look you know
Speaker 1: in the high yell space at energy see where how
Speaker 1: that goes. UM. Those are the probably the main UM
Speaker 1: areas that we will look at going into the year.
Speaker 1: And as if we get past this COVID uh you
Speaker 1: know lockdown that we're seeing um transpire over in Europe, UM,
Speaker 1: we will start also looking at some of your leisure
Speaker 1: UM stocks more for the excuse me, bonds that are
Speaker 1: more for the reopening is I guess el macron must
Speaker 1: be one of the biggest worries other than the FED. Yes, UM,
Speaker 1: I think that you know, I'm not concerned about on
Speaker 1: the cron so much here in the US because they
Speaker 1: don't think that we're going to shut down our economy again.
Speaker 1: But when I look across the pond and you know,
Speaker 1: work for fixed income ideas that are outside of the US,
Speaker 1: I do indeed worry about Um. You know, I'm a
Speaker 1: cron because they're tending to shut down. Their economies are
Speaker 1: a lot faster than you know we're thinking about in
Speaker 1: the US. I think we've learned our lesson and we're
Speaker 1: just gonna live with it going forward. All right, you're
Speaker 1: not the first person to tell us that today, Kevin,
Speaker 1: it seems to be a consensus for you. Kevin Nicholson
Speaker 1: is a global fixed income co c i O and
Speaker 1: co head of the Investment Committee at Riverfront Investment Group,
Speaker 1: giving us his outlook for two as well as his
Speaker 1: take on what we heard from Jerome Powell and the
Speaker 1: FED yesterday and uh, the current situation with the coronavirus.
Speaker 1: As promise, we're gonna bring you Marcus show mur chief
Speaker 1: economist at pine Bridge Investment, to talk about the hawk
Speaker 1: is pivot first off and then um and then Marcus,
Speaker 1: we saw the b o E actually go the whole
Speaker 1: nine yards or almost I guess, fifteen basis point points
Speaker 1: of an increase. What do you think about these central
Speaker 1: banks getting more and more hawkish on inflation? They guys,
Speaker 1: it's nice to be back on the show. Um, Yes,
Speaker 1: what a what a few days or two days here
Speaker 1: for central bank watchers. I mean, we knew that this
Speaker 1: would be busy when we saw the schedule that everything
Speaker 1: was punching up here. The week for most people, I
Speaker 1: guess shutdown for Christmas, but that would get so much
Speaker 1: action probably was a little bit of a surprise. Um
Speaker 1: yet the Fed clearly in a hawk ish pivot. The
Speaker 1: Bank of England probably even more surprising and more confusing,
Speaker 1: after disappointing expectations last month where they was supposed to
Speaker 1: raise rate it didn't for kind of no really apparent reason,
Speaker 1: and then this time with storing COVID cases again clouding
Speaker 1: the economic out brogan p mind numbers this morning not
Speaker 1: particularly exciting. They decided to do race rates. So I
Speaker 1: think what we're having here's just an environment where central
Speaker 1: bank communication has become very, very inconsistent. And I think
Speaker 1: that's something that I would have thought as an economist.
Speaker 1: I'm not a portformio manager, but as an economist, I
Speaker 1: would have thought that would really impact financial markets and
Speaker 1: that we would start to pric in greater risk premiums.
Speaker 1: Again for central bank surprises, but so far they look
Speaker 1: at the markets, none of that really is happening. Marcus,
Speaker 1: what is your view of inflation as we head into
Speaker 1: the transitory term has been retired by the US FED chair,
Speaker 1: But what is your view? Well, I mean, there is
Speaker 1: the idea that inflation can be transitory was always just
Speaker 1: out there to placate markets. I think the central banks
Speaker 1: were just too afraid to suddenly talk about inflation as
Speaker 1: a problem, but that could mean the financial markets. That's
Speaker 1: why they sort of came up with transiti aations. Never
Speaker 1: transitory inflation is one of the worst economic trends that
Speaker 1: makes income inequality worse than anything else. Yes, we know
Speaker 1: it's kind of good for debt because you know, if
Speaker 1: you have a lot of phenomenal debt, higher inflation eats
Speaker 1: a way that that amount of debt faster vality to
Speaker 1: GDP over income. But with our pivot away from that
Speaker 1: towards more income in equality related problems, inflation is really
Speaker 1: really bad. It makes which people richer and poor people poor.
Speaker 1: That's a huge problem. So that the fact finally pivots.
Speaker 1: So this is not a big surprise. And we know
Speaker 1: from previous inflation periods that even if it lasts only
Speaker 1: twelve months or eighteen months, it has an impact. So
Speaker 1: the call it. To have called it transitory at the beginning,
Speaker 1: I think basically was an attempt by central banks to
Speaker 1: play defense in an environment where they are so far
Speaker 1: leaning towards excessive emergency stimulus that couldn't really dial back
Speaker 1: that may that fast, so they rolled up this word transitory.
Speaker 1: And the fact that they actually that Powell even used
Speaker 1: the word let's retire that expression or made me really
Speaker 1: cringe last time, because it meant it has served its
Speaker 1: purpose and it took this purpose to confuse you all
Speaker 1: or placate you all. But now we don't need to
Speaker 1: do this anymore because we're ready to raise rate, so
Speaker 1: we could retire in inverted commas that were transitory. Um,
Speaker 1: I think it was never actually an honest description of
Speaker 1: the inflation backdrop. You hate inflation almost as much as
Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan did. He said he said inflation is as
Speaker 1: violent as a mugger, as frightening as an arm drobber,
Speaker 1: and as deadly as a hit man. What I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about a lot lately, Marcus, is what it forces
Speaker 1: investors to do, Especially with so much liquidity, so much
Speaker 1: cash out there, you don't want to just leave it
Speaker 1: in dollars and you know, have it being reduced by
Speaker 1: a tent every year. Right, Um, you need to put
Speaker 1: it to work, and when you need to put it
Speaker 1: to work, that's when dangerous things can happen. Well, that
Speaker 1: is true, but that isn't it exactly what we're doing,
Speaker 1: or what investors are doing with the market is doing.
Speaker 1: I mean, why would you buy at ten year bond
Speaker 1: at one point four percent when the current inflation wright
Speaker 1: is six And yeah, eventually we will get back to
Speaker 1: one point four percent, but but who really believes that
Speaker 1: over the next ten years inflation will ever be below
Speaker 1: one point four percent so that you can average to
Speaker 1: something that makes sense in terms of the novel returns
Speaker 1: and interest in getting on that investment in a ten
Speaker 1: year bond visa. The the inflation that will eat up
Speaker 1: the investments you just made in that bond um and
Speaker 1: a lot of money is still going into those markets,
Speaker 1: a lot of money is sustaining those markets. It really
Speaker 1: tells you have to be in equities, right. That's the
Speaker 1: inflation story being housing all the assets that have some
Speaker 1: inflation protection because that it reacts to nominal economic activity,
Speaker 1: which is what equity markets are doing. That's what the
Speaker 1: money is that's what the market the money is still going,
Speaker 1: but it is not that that's what everybody is doing.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that we have not seen a greater reaction
Speaker 1: in the bond market as a result of all this
Speaker 1: inflation and the fact that the Fed is removing the
Speaker 1: policy support four bonds. Hey, Marcus, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for joining us. Really appreciate getting your thoughts and perspective
Speaker 1: here as we try to digest, uh, some of what
Speaker 1: we've heard from the Federal Reserve yesterday in the ecb
Speaker 1: UH and the Bank of England today. Marcus Schomer is
Speaker 1: a chief economist for pine Bridge Investments, and Marcus was
Speaker 1: just referencing kind of interest rates and again at the
Speaker 1: ten year treasury here we are one point four three percent.
Speaker 1: We have seen a flattening of the curve, but can
Speaker 1: you look at that ten years still at one point
Speaker 1: four three percent. A lot of folks I thought we'd
Speaker 1: see a pick up, a rise in yields, just not
Speaker 1: seeing yet. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.
Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews of Apple Podcasts
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three and on Fall Sweeney.
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney Before the podcast. You
Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio