WEBVTT - Lifelong Friends on Death Row 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.840 Dear Governor is a production of I Heart Media and 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.760 three Months Media. If you are moved by Jarvis Masters 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:09.320 and his thirty years struggle on San Quentin's death throw, 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.760 and you'd like to support his cause, please consider signing 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.840 a petition on his behalf. Visit Free Jarvis dot org 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.160 slash podcast to sign your name to an open letter 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:25.720 to California Governor Gavin Newsom, Dear Governor Newsom, Dear Mr 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:31.240 Governor Newsom. This is an open letter to Governor Gavin Newsom. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:44.640 Dear Governor Newsom. When Jarvis Masters first entered the walls 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:48.040 of San Quentin State Prison four decades ago, he was, 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:51.840 by his own admission, angry and bitter, filled with vitriol, 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:55.440 pent up from a lifetime of abuse, neglect, and hopelessness. 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:58.240 Were it not for the foresight and compassion of a 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:01.120 singular woman at a very pivot dull time in his life, 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:04.520 Jarvis admits he would have likely continued along the seemingly 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:10.000 preordained pipeline cradle to prison to casket melody irma child, 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.120 Chavez was so much more than a defense investigator on 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:17.479 Jarvis's murder trial. He credits her support encouragement is vital 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:21.080 to altering the trajectory of his life. In the forward 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:24.720 of his book Finding Freedom, How Death Row Broke and 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.520 opened My heart, he writes that Melody quote guided me 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:32.160 through the many steps from extreme anger to the clarity 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:35.560 of my Buddhist practice. She created a bridge for me 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.400 to the outside world, bringing people into my life and 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:43.400 giving passage to my voice. I recently spoke to Melody, 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.000 who is now living in Germany, and I asked about 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.480 her memory of Jarvis. When they first met back in 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:54.440 the early eighties. He just sat there, glum and silent 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.760 and glowering at me, and he had on this blue 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.120 watch cap, you know, kind of a ski cap that 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.960 they're allowed to have, and he pulled that way down 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.360 almost over his eyes, and crossed his arms and slumped 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.320 way back in his chair and stuck his legs out 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:16.720 and crossed his ankles and had nothing to say. He 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.600 just was a completely shut down and defended kid. Were 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:24.600 you intimidated by him? No, he didn't scare me, but 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:30.160 I I felt a lot of compassion for him. I thought, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:34.160 oh boy, you know, he's just not in touch with 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.160 his feelings and he's he's very scared. I thought that 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:42.400 he he's very strong, you know, fortress defenses he had 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:47.760 going where because he was probably like most of my clients, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.600 really shocked to be facing the death penalty. Do you 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:57.040 have to understand when I met Melody, I was something 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.720 like that. Jarvis Masters recalls his first meat with Melody 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.440 over thirty years ago. I went out there with my 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.280 beanie and I did my little mug thing, and I 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:10.200 didn't like her. You know, she was too small, she 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.560 didn't know what the hell she was talking about, and 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.120 you know I didn't have to listen to her. But 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:20.080 she recognized my anger in a way where she connected 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:26.520 it to masculinity and connecting with that child inside you. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.160 You know what it is you know a man and 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.200 not be a follower, you know, and what it is 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:38.280 to hold some guidance and direction to your life and 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:43.760 not be scared of doing that. And she filled myself 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.560 up with books like that. What was it about her 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:51.720 that made you trust her? She was a lot tougher 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:54.080 and what I thought she was. And she knew more 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.920 about prisons than I thought she did. She had visited 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:03.760 my mother. It I was, I was too angry to 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:08.760 hear myself, and she starts shedding that away. You know, 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:12.440 I try to run her away from me very many times. 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:15.560 You know, I didn't think she was serious at thought 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.560 it's all about the dollar, and I thought, you know, 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.000 I'm not gonna sit out here and try to be 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:25.760 can't like you know, I'm getting something from her. You know. 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:28.760 I was also scared about what she would write about 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.400 my mother, So I hung out with her just to 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:37.040 figure that out. Um. I mean, this is the first 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.520 time I ever said that. But yeah, she was a 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.560 very is she is today a very, very dear friend 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.159 of mine. You know, I hope I can be that 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:50.479 for her. What is it about Jervish this Well, first 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:54.400 of all, you are basically credited with introducing him to meditation, 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.839 which changed the entire trajectory of his life. To recommend 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.720 meditation to all of your clients, or wasn't there something 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.080 about Jarvis that made you think that it could really 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:08.320 benefit him? Well, first of all, the ante the part 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.160 about what was special about jervis I thought when once 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.680 he once he sort of opened up, you know, I 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.000 got gained his trust. One of the things I did 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.960 is I just did go and see some of his family, 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:25.480 and they liked me, and I reunited him with all 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:30.120 his family he had nobody, had no visitors. And slowly, 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:32.839 you know, I got him back in touch with his sisters, 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:38.200 his brothers, and then finally his mom, you know, communicating 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.440 writing back and forth, and that he began to really 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.960 see the the benefits of having an investigative. You know, 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.880 I had many young guys being just as reluctant, you know, 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.480 just saying I don't need no desfinitely trial, you know, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.800 get me out of here kind of that, just get 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.080 me out I don't want to do is also a 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:03.920 big one. And Jarvis had this too, is don't go 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.599 anywhere near my family, leave my family out of this. 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.159 You know, he knew he felt he'd led his mom down, 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.120 and he thought she probably didn't want anything to do 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.120 with him, and he didn't want her also to be bothered. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.640 But eventually, you know, I got him think, well, look, 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.360 you know, the government is paying me to write your 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:27.960 life story. You might as well take advantage of it. 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.760 Let's write your life story. Why not? You know, this 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.960 is just something we can do together while you're waiting 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.520 for your trial. And I'll go and find out some 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.240 stuff and I'll come back and let you know. And 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.320 he got more and more involved in it. Can you 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:45.560 tell me, like, what is the process of being a 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:52.840 criminal investigator? Well, later on we called that social historians 0:06:53.960 --> 0:07:00.000 for capital cases, and that's a life history based on documents. 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:03.000 First of all, the foundation of it is the record, 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:08.120 medical record, school records, criminal records, everything you can find, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.280 so that really establishes the dates that things happen in 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.640 many many names come forward with that kind of thing. 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.200 I got all of that for Jarvis, and then you 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:23.840 weave into it interviews with the defend that himself. So 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:28.720 Jarvis told much of his own story over time, and 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:34.880 then adding in quotes and recollections from everyone who knew him, 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.440 so neighbors and relatives and more distant relatives and the 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:43.080 maybe the pastor or any employer. Uh and in Jarvis's case, 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.880 the foster parents and the juvenile hall, people in the 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:52.120 juvenile prison, people who played a big role in his life. So, 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.520 you know, he was vera young when I met him, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.640 he was twenty two. I think I was also pretty young. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:03.560 I was about forty seven. Maybe I recognized how first 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:08.720 of all, he's really smart and not everyone is right. 0:08:08.840 --> 0:08:12.920 I mean, he didn't have the kind of brain injuries, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.840 you know, that so many of my clients had with 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.760 fetal alcohol issues or having been a born on drugs, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.720 or having been hit and beaten so badly to have 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.440 like little brain injuries. He just had been spared all that, 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.440 thank God. And it was a miracle because his mom, 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:33.839 of course, was on drugs and such. But he is well, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:35.920 and so he has this foundation that we all need, 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:41.280 which is to have a functioning brain. And then he 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.520 has and the whole family has sort of what the 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.439 Irish called the gift of the gab. You know, he 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:53.400 just was so articulate, and it's funny and talkative and 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:57.280 and so many people are not, you know. I mean, 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.920 I've interviewed thousands of people in an out of prison, 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:04.600 and so many it's like pulling teeth. You know that yourself, 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.680 you'll ask something and then there you'll get mum mumble mumble, 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.920 looked down at the floor, you know. Or teenagers if 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:13.760 you've raised any of them, that they go through that 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:17.440 phase too. Uh. I can't tell get anybody to say anything, 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.400 But once he got started, he would He just would 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:26.400 tell stories and and entertain you. And I thought that 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:31.840 was really a lovely characteristic and I enjoyed my time 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:35.160 with him always, I think everybody does, you know, you 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.920 look forward to it. And and also he was the 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:43.160 one who insisted that we'd be friends. He had had 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.600 some team social workers and juvenile counselors and this and that, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.160 and he said, I don't need that. You know, if 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.680 you're coming here to be my social worker and try 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.240 to help me and all this, I don't want anything 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.040 to do with you. I need a pal. I need 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.839 an actual friend. Need you to tell me some of 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.000 your life and what you're going through. Why would this 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:06.800 be a one way street. I'm not going to do it. 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.840 And I thought, okay, well why not. I guess I 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:17.280 could open up more with him. And then as far 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.680 as meditation, we learned that together. I was not a 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:25.320 Buddhist I when I met him, I hadn't meditated ever. 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.400 And I went to a course to learn meditate and 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.640 I thought this is great, hard, very difficult to do. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.800 And I came up to see Jarvis and I said, 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:37.960 you know, I'm learning how to meditate. You want to 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:39.760 do you want to do it? You want to try to? 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.280 And he was like sure, And this was a joke 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.920 that I always tell it. I said, well, but this 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.520 is Buddhist, you know, like, do you want to me 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:54.760 to find some other sort of practice like from Africa 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:58.880 or something. Do you want something more like culturally? That's 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.319 not any looks at me, it goes, well, you're not Asian, 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:08.719 that's true. Good point. So we don't learned it in 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:13.160 the cell there. You know, we had contact visits prior 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:17.080 to the trial for that, and that was several years 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:21.800 you know, to prepare. So anyway, we we did it together. 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:26.520 We really undertook this whole journey to calm down and 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:31.880 pay attention to what is happening with us together. You know, 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.400 it's very a very rich experience, and of course he 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.440 had it much harder than a prison is no place 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.480 to meditate, and there's also no place to open yourself 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.520 up to your inner self, you know, to start to 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:50.840 feel your emotions. You can't afford it in there. You know, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.959 it's not a safe environment. It's not even safe to 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.640 close your eyes. It's not safe to be quiet or 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.880 you know, or to cry with be the last thing 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:07.640 and he very bravely, very strongly, I thought, I'm I'm 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.040 going to benefit of this, and I needed to get 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:16.160 through the experience of facing his death bathing. It definitely 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.400 trials a lout like you know, you like a cancer, 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:23.360 diactosis or something. You many people think, wow, you know 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.560 this is it? What is why am I alive? And 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:31.080 what does my life mean? And he did? He really 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.360 approached it that way. Up next, how Jarvis's meditation practice 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:41.200 evolved in Buddhism became an energizing force in his life. 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.680 The practice of meditation could have led Jarvis masters down 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:56.200 any number of paths. I asked friend and defense investigator 0:12:56.240 --> 0:13:00.440 Melody irma child, how and why Jarvis was drawn to Budism. 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.360 I brought him maybe or someone else sent him a 0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:08.319 magazine that had Buddhist stuff in it. And he saw 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:12.800 an ad for free books from this group in northern 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:17.559 California that had their teacher, Kasan Toku, who became his teacher. 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.160 He wrote to them himself, I had nothing to do 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.920 with that, and he said, send me the books. I'm 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.920 on death row. And he had a whole correspondence going 0:13:27.960 --> 0:13:31.320 with them. What did not involve me? And so he 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:36.800 sought out studying Buddhism, you know, really becoming a Buddhist scholar, 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.120 sort of reading uh and learning the history of it 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.560 and such more than than I did. He just went 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:48.200 like a duck into water or something. What would you say? 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:52.360 You know, he really spoke to him, and he pursued 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.760 it on his own. And you can tell that in 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.040 David Scheff's book how deeply he went into it and 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:01.760 how but he sought out teachers first charge, saying tookles, 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:05.840 then Pamma. I remember one day I had a visit 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.240 with him, which was on the phone. Then after the 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.960 trial he was put in solitary and for years I 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.520 visited him, talking to him on the phone behind glass 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.400 syd a glass window, and I visited him a lot. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.360 One time, the guy at the gate said, you know, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.480 we're going to redo our lists of all the visits. 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.400 He said, I'll just give you a copy of years. 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.800 And it was a hundred and ten visits at that 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:32.800 point at some point, you know, over years, over a 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.280 few years. So we're talking and he said, you know, 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:41.080 I'm I'm corresponding with this little lady. She's so nice 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.720 and she lives would in the woods someplace. Oh, that's interesting. 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:50.920 And he said, and her name is Pinma, something like Pina. Oh. 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.520 And I said, wait a minute, Jervis are you talking 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:57.920 about Pemma Children. Yeah, that's her name. She was way 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.560 on in the woods. And I said, Josh, she is 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:05.600 one of the most well known Buddhist teachers there is. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.640 You know, this is amazing, and and he said, oh, well, 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:11.760 I didn't know that. I just thought, you know, she 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.400 was like to write. May be she had written him 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:18.920 because of his book. You credit Buddhism for Jervis's transformation. 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:24.440 I think he would say yes. So I would say yes, 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:31.280 Buddhism and the way it opened him up to the 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:36.160 world and to kindness and to his own you know, 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:41.040 loving heart, which then drew in all these other people's Buddhism, 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:45.640 and also the support of dezens and hundreds of people 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.160 all around that have carried him forward to these Such 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:55.200 a wonderful person who so many people really depend on 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.800 his friendship. He's a really good friend too many people. 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.120 ID just has to be one of the most famous 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:06.160 person right now on denth Bro you know, as far 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.360 as having followers and having an international presence. U his 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:14.560 book was translated all around in Europe. And yeah, I'm 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:18.880 very proud of him. He's got his own two books. Amazing. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.240 And then and then David Cheff's book now, yes, yeah, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.880 David Cheff's book is so great, and you you are 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.680 the first person even mentioned in that book. You are featured, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:34.000 featured so prominently. I'm I'm so grateful and honored in 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:41.120 sort of odd by the way Jarvis has given me credit. 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.920 It was saying, you know, been grateful to me and 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:47.640 talked about me, and also all of the other people, 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:51.880 you know, Pamma and Payma children, and also Susan Moon 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.480 who published him first in Buddhist publication up Turning Wheel. 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.600 And you know, I just didn't forget the people who 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.520 have helped to him, and I just think that's so nice, 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.320 you know, I mean the first is of kind of 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:11.440 I was kind of embarrassed to be featured that way, 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.399 but that also Dan, I realized, you know, this really 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.960 is a lovely honor for me. I'm retired now and 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.840 an old kind of an old lady, and to feel 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:29.360 that work I did have been recognized, and it's more 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.480 like a symbol of all the many cases I have 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:36.640 thirty five people who are living on death or who 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.920 were my clients, and then you know, way way more 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:44.000 than that who did not get death and or even 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.639 were acquitted or you know, got terms of years and 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:50.679 such and and some doing life without parole. You are 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:53.760 also the impetus for Jarvis to start writing. From what 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.840 I understand as well, you too would sit together and write. 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:02.000 That's true. I always thought jarvis use of language was 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:07.760 just great, so he didn't have a formal education for 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:13.080 stuff like punctuation or even spelling. I thought that it 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.480 would be great if he could write down the way 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.760 he talked uh and write down his stories. So I 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.880 started doing these little exercises with him because he had 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.520 been talking to me all about noticing the child abuse. 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.520 We talked all about child abuse, what it is, and 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.400 how it happened to him, and the effects of that. 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:38.160 Most prisoners, many, many, you know, younger people think, well, 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.000 I was I was a bad boy, and my parents 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.960 disciplined me. You know, my father beat me and and 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.800 I deserved it, you know, that's just how it is. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.720 And I would I would also beat my kids. And 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.720 I helped Jovis to see that that you could raise 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:57.800 kids without beating them. And it leaves these terrible wounds, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:02.359 psychic wounds, emotional wounds, and even on your bodies and body. 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:04.600 And he told me about the scars you saw in 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.399 the prison Yard. All of that we sort of developed together, 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.639 and I said, well, why don't you just write the 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:14.120 whole thing down? And that went to at least twelve publications. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.400 It was anthologized, and then finally made its way into 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:22.320 Finding Freedom. So it's all his own talent, right, I mean, 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.360 he does have a unique writer's voice. He has an 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:29.879 actual voice, and it's unique, and I think it's so great. 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.320 I really like his writing. And no, we would we 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.520 would go do all these little things when he was 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.439 behind glass. We would have both have paper and he 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.879 would have the inside of a a ballpoint pen, you know, 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:46.040 just the inside because they take away the metal outside 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.920 or hard plastic outside. And we would say, well today, 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.040 let's write about the ball game, or let's write about rain, 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.560 or let's write about sleep or whatever. So we we 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.440 both developed as writers together. I would say, then would 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:02.920 you read those like you give yourself tendent? Yeah? Then 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:06.359 read them aloud? Yeah, okay. We would be let's go 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.800 so many minutes and I'd look at my watch five 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.920 minutes and then and then read them to each other. 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:17.119 Was he ever, because he did not have the education 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:20.719 that you had, was to be finned that decide intimidating 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:24.720 at all. I never saw that. He just goes ahead. 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:27.879 See that's another really great quality he has is that 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:32.359 he doesn't he knows, he doesn't have a mastery of 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:35.320 or didn't these of course he's learning, learned all these 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:40.360 twenty years punctuation or spelling every word. But he doesn't stop, 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:44.240 you know, he doesn't get it, gets intimidated or ashamed. Nothing. 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.360 He just goes ahead and puts it all onto paper 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.080 that all that stuff could be fixed later. Will you 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.760 be participating in any way, shape or form in the 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.720 federal appeal? Not that I've been contacted, I know, I 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:06.040 really I'm retired party. I feel like I've been healing 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:12.200 myself the last five years or so with nature. Kind 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:17.679 of enough murderer, Enough with murder, enough with prisons. You know. 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:21.280 I do go to see Jarvis, and when we're in California, 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.880 we go to see Chad Rhodes also, And I've been 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.160 in touch with him all the time, all the years 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.439 he's now been there over twenty years, mostly in the 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:34.159 Pelican Bay Shoe and now in a better prison. And 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.720 so I just have the two Jarvis and Chad Road 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.000 and I thought, well, all right, I'll just stick with 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:45.280 you guys until I'm not alive anymore, you know, I'll 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.840 I'm looking forward to spending the rest of my life 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:51.320 with them, and that it's very helpful to me, making 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.600 my life more meaningful. I wouldn't be the person I 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:59.359 am without no ide that's a fact, sound story. So 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.800 I think let's call and your telephone number will be 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.800 monitored and recorded. She came into my life at the 0:22:07.880 --> 0:22:14.040 most angerious point I've ever been, and slowly she was 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.800 the person who said, you know, you don't need to 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.359 be that to be you, and she found that a 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.600 lot of books to support that, you know, and she 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.840 hung out with me. She stayed with me while I 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:31.280 went through that process. So you know, you can never 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:35.760 forget something like that, you know, Yeah, I certainly won't. 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:42.600 Was she like a mother to you? No, no, no, no, 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:48.040 not not at all. She was more like a a 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:52.159 teacher who not let you leave the classroom until you 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:58.120 did your homework. That kind of person, you know, Yes, 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:02.360 So yeah, that's how that's how who she became. That's 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.680 the kind of person she's always been to me. Up next, 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:10.600 Jervis's own words on Melody, his introduction to Buddhism and 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:14.280 how his fraught journey to self acceptance led him down 0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:26.359 the Buddhist path after Dion Graham, who voiced the audio 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.560 book Finding Freedom, How Death Row Broke and opened my 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.960 heart on how Jarvis managed to find his path in 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:37.240 the darkness of San Quentin's death Row. For a long time, 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.840 I've been my own stranger, but everything I went through 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:43.359 and learning how to accept myself brought me to the 0:23:43.400 --> 0:23:49.360 doorsteps of Dharma, the Buddhist path. During my death penalty trial, Melody, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.720 a private investigator working on my case, send me books 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.800 on how to meditate, how to deal with pain and suffering, 0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.280 how to keep my mind at rest. She had broken 0:23:59.280 --> 0:24:01.760 her ankle and was trying to keep still. She and 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:04.720 I were both trying this meditation gig, and like me, 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:07.159 she was confronting a lot of things in her past. 0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:10.600 She was also writing and encouraged me to do so 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:13.400 as well. I began to get up early to try 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:15.720 to calm my mind so I wouldn't panic. It was 0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.439 as if my whole life was being displayed on a 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.960 screen during the death penalty case. Things I never realized 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.840 about myself in my life were introduced to me and 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:28.600 the jury at the same time questions I never asked 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.560 my mother, like how long she'd been abused on the street, 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:38.320 and added, we're being asked now. Through meditation, I learned 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.080 to slow down and take a few deep breaths, to 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.399 take everything in, not to run from the pain, but 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:48.399 to sit with it, confronted, give it the companion it 0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:53.080 had never had. I became committed to my meditation practice. 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:56.080 While I was in the holding booth during the jury's 0:24:56.119 --> 0:24:58.960 deliberation on whether I should get life without parole or 0:24:58.960 --> 0:25:02.119 the death penalty, I started leafing through a Buddhist journal 0:25:02.240 --> 0:25:05.760 Melody had left there. In it was an article called 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:09.360 Life in Relation to Death by a Tibetan Buddhist lama 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:14.080 Choga Tokul Rimpachey. I thought, wow, this is right up 0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:16.879 my alley. I sent a letter to the address in 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:19.840 the journal and got a reply from a woman named Lisa, 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.560 one of Rimpa Chase close students, with a copy of 0:25:22.560 --> 0:25:26.240 his booklet Life in Relation to Death. At the time, 0:25:26.520 --> 0:25:28.280 I got into some kind of trouble and was in 0:25:28.440 --> 0:25:31.320 isolated confinement, stripped down to a pair of shorts and 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.720 a T shirt with only two blankets. In her letter, 0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:38.440 Lisa asked if I needed help. I always needed help. 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:41.560 I still need help, and because the help she offered, 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:45.439 we began corresponding. Then she began to visit me and 0:25:45.680 --> 0:25:50.400 eventually brought Rimpachey to San Quentin. When I first saw 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:53.119 Rimpa Check through the glass in the small visiting room booth, 0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:56.840